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takes place in a large clearing

falcon

Originally posted by george '06
takes place in a large clearing

warren ftw

Archangel for the win.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Archangel for the win.
why?


Falcon the superior fighter and areal fighter

Angel get's loads of respect and I love it. I'll give it to him here too.

Originally posted by Redatom65
Angel get's loads of respect and I love it. I'll give it to him here too.

why there no reason he woudl win give me one good reason.


he not nearly as skilled a fighter. He has no gadgets and falcon is the best areal fighter in MU

Why would a person who flies through technology be a more skilled aerial fighter than someone who has had natural flight since he was a teenager. ermm

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why would a person who flies through technology be a more skilled aerial fighter than someone who has had natural flight since he was a teenager. ermm

just becuase you had it has a teenager does not mean you are the better figher while in the air.


He may fly better and that a big IF. He does not train in militery style and beeing doing missions in areal combat as long as falcon has. Falcon been stated as the best areal combant by Iron man him self.


Falcon gets no respect

Originally posted by capt it up
just becuase you had it has a teenager does not mean you are the better figher while in the air.

He may fly better and that a big IF. He does not train in militery style and beeing doing missions in areal combat as long as falcon has. Falcon been stated as the best areal combant by Iron man him self. So he's just been playing around with the X-Men all these years. No training and missions involved at all.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So he's just been playing around with the X-Men all these years. No training and missions involved at all.

yes he ahd missions, but he also taken lot of time off not to mention he even lsot his powers before.


Falcon has constantly running missions. He run more missions then angle. He has mroe combat experience then angle. He ahs better trainign then angle. He been training in areal combat longer. When ahs angle ever been consider the best areal fighter? Never. Falcon has been consider the best By Iron Man and others.


He realy gets no respect at all.

Originally posted by capt it up
why?


Falcon the superior fighter and areal fighter

AoA Angel

Originally posted by guy222
AoA Angel
but this is not aoa angle

Originally posted by capt it up
but this is not aoa angle

Warren still wins

you do know that falcon amrtial arts training is >>>>>>>>>>angles

also falcon does not need his arms to fly he ahd several up grades to his suit.

hell he been flying in his suit since before angle got wings.

also don't give me that stupid bio I own it. The 2004 bio sucked any ways.

Really all you proved was that warren can fly not much mroe then thats.

warren still dwarfed by fighting prowess and areal combat prowess. Not to mention Falcon ahs wepaons while angle has none.

also angle healing factor is crap. It heals other really well, but not him self. yes it heals him, but at a much slower rate. He cna not take injuries and keep fighting and neevr has.


ya that nice beeing the most agile flyier however falcon consider the best fighter while flying which counts for a lot more.

not to mention he were body armor wich will protect him from attacks. warren really has only one way to fight falcon and that in h2h were falcon is his superior. Falcon on the other hand has quite a few weapons he can through at the angle while in combat.

you took that crap from wiki which is not only a crappy source, but and un usable one

doh

Alright then. How about you show me a scan of him able to do any realy flying without his arms holding the wings? If I recall correctly, in all of the Civil War appearances he's made, he's had to his arms. Plus, I just looked up even more pictures of him, still don't see any of them without him holding his wings.

Been flying longer than Warren? Prove it.

If you want to get technical, Warren's been flying and training since 1963. Falcon was introduced in 1969. Non-technically, Warren started off MUCH younger as well, giving him much more experience flying than Sam.

Healing factor seems to work fine for what he needs it for. It won't really even be necessary here. But, in case it is necessary, Falcon won't be doing anything that will max it out.

Aerial combat better than Warren's? Hah! Prove it.

Falcon gets to use weapons and Angel can't? That doesn't seem fair. Why not give Warren that sword he carries around?

You know what though? I'll concede that Sam's martial arts skills are superior, but not enough to demolish Warren. BESIDES, it's not like he can properly utilize martial arts while in mid-air.

So, go ahead. Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by capt it up
you took that crap from wiki which is not only a crappy source, but and un usable one

Point being? It's still correct information. It's nothing I didn't already know about Angel, I just found it easier to copy and paste my already-known knowledge for you.

It to bad I don;t read falcon or buy his comics or I show you issue numbers. if only it was the other way around lol. I ahve 100's of comics with warren in them

First falcon was in war world two.

he got his wings about hmm think it was 5 years after the war or so. I know warren was not alive then


In the civil war file's it stated by iron man that Falcon is the best areal fighter then is and the best h2h comabnt in the air as well if I am not mistaken. He even says skill wise he my better.


This is the one time I can not show prove since I do not read falcon i actaully rather dislike his character, but I ldislike more when people think he some push over whne he clear is not. I don't think warren wins sicne really warren only advantage is agility.

He out done in skill, durability, speed and tatcical prowess. he also does not have any weapons.

also in the civl war file it says falocn wings had been up graded so know they were due to his mind if I am not mistaken and can due a number of things.

also I pritty sure he has control over birds as well.

why does warren not get his sword? it not a standered weapon he used it for like one arch. he no longer wields it while felcon wields his wepaons all the time and are aprt of his suit.

Originally posted by capt it up
It to bad I don;t read falcon or buy his comics or I show you issue numbers. if only it was the other way around lol. I ahve 100's of comics with warren in them

First falcon was in war world two.

he got his wings about hmm think it was 5 years after the war or so. I know warren was not alive then

In the civil war file's it stated by iron man that Falcon is the best areal fighter then is and the best h2h comabnt in the air as well if I am not mistaken. He even says skill wise he my better.

This is the one time I can not show prove since I do not read falcon i actaully rather dislike his character, but I ldislike more when people think he some push over whne he clear is not. I don't think warren wins sicne really warren only advantage is agility.

He out done in skill, durability, speed and tatcical prowess. he also does not have any weapons.

also in the civl war file it says falocn wings had been up graded so know they were due to his mind if I am not mistaken and can due a number of things.

also I pritty sure he has control over birds as well.

This is a pretty lame argument on your part, capt.

Oh, about the sword. Warren was using that thing not two years ago, I believe. He also hasn't had many appearances lately, save for the X-Men Civil War tie-ins. If Warren doesn't get his sword, Sam doesn't get his weapons. That's like taking away Cap's shield if Wolverine gets to keep his claws and adamantium (since it in itself can be used as weapon ).

I'm looking up different bios for Sam, and none of them say that he got his wings so soon. I don't care about him being in WWII, but I don't see anything saying he got his wings five years afterwards. Being introduced in 1969 and without another date in which to correspond with, his wings were also introduced to him in 1969.

In fact, Sam could not have received his wings so soon. He was first introduced AFTER Captain America was unfrozen in 1964. 19 years after Cap was frozen. Which also means 19 years after WWII. And then Sam wasn't introduced until 1969.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. You're wrong.

Angel has much more experience with flying. He's the better and most efficient flyer. Falcon's advantages aren't much of a factor in this fight. Live with it.

Are you people kidding? No way does falc win! Angel has a healing factor, falcon doesnt. And I hate using the healingfactor card, but its true. Angel can fly higher than falc easily. All he need do is grab falc, and take him on a trip high into the stratusphere. Falc would suffocate far before angel, I guarantee it.

Originally posted by Muck101
Are you people kidding? No way does falc win! Angel has a healing factor, falcon doesnt. And I hate using the healingfactor card, but its true. Angel can fly higher than falc easily. All he need do is grab falc, and take him on a trip high into the stratusphere. Falc would suffocate far before angel, I guarantee it.

This is actually true, too.

Also, angel has more muscle due to his avian biology. Lots of muscle packed together. I'd wager he's stronger than falc. Hollow bones give him more manuverability in the air.

Originally posted by Muck101
Also, angel has more muscle due to his avian biology. Lots of muscle packed together. I'd wager he's stronger than falc. Hollow bones give him more manuverability in the air.

I agree falcon a guy who might train more against angel a guy who was born with wings and has every physical advantage over falcon in the flying department.
Ok he might not have the same speed, yet he make it up with his manuverability.

Originally posted by Brutacus
I agree falcon a guy who might train more against angel a guy who was born with wings and has every physical advantage over falcon in the flying department.
Ok he might not have the same speed, yet he make it up with his manuverability.

How fast can Sam fly? Because Warren can reach speeds of 150 mph.

And can also reach an altitude (though this may not be his limit) of 10,000 feet with little effort.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
How fast can Sam fly? Because Warren can reach speeds of 150 mph.

And can also reach an altitude (though this may not be his limit) of 10,000 feet with little effort.
250 miles per hour. Or atleast that's what marvel.com say's.

Ah. That's impressive. I wasn't aware of that.

Unfortunately, for Sam, however, this is not a race. Flying speed won't mean much in this fight, if any at all. Warren is still the superior aerial fighter.

Impressive nonetheless though.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah. That's impressive. I wasn't aware of that.

Unfortunately, for Sam, however, this is not a race. Flying speed won't mean much in this fight, if any at all. Warren is still the superior aerial fighter.

Impressive nonetheless though.
That's why I said that angel might not have the same speed, but he make's it up since he's born to be a bird-man

Originally posted by Brutacus
That's why I said that angel might not have the same speed, but he make's it up since he's born to be a bird-man

Exactly.

Originally posted by Brutacus
That's why I said that angel might not have the same speed, but he make's it up since he's born to be a bird-man

Actually, in an early x-men comic, Angel flying at his fastest possible speed was able to keep up with Quicksilver (briefly).

Originally posted by capt it up
It to bad I don;t read falcon or buy his comics or I show you issue numbers. if only it was the other way around lol. I ahve 100's of comics with warren in them

First falcon was in war world two.

he got his wings about hmm think it was 5 years after the war or so. I know warren was not alive then




Nah, Falcon was introduced around 1969, and he didn't get wings until the mid-70's, and they were quite primitive too (he could only use them for gliding and swooping). Angel's wings grew in his early or mid teens (around the late 50's early 60's).

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah. That's impressive. I wasn't aware of that.

Unfortunately, for Sam, however, this is not a race. Flying speed won't mean much in this fight, if any at all. Warren is still the superior aerial fighter.

Impressive nonetheless though.

How can you say flying speed won't be a factor in this fight? Of course it will be. Speed is always a factor in a fight. In fact you were about to argue that Angel was faster, then when you found out he wsn't you said Flying speed won't be a factor.

I too was not aware Falcon was faster than Angel. You'd think the natural flyer would be faster.

Originally posted by nimbus006
How can you say flying speed won't be a factor in this fight? Of course it will be. Speed is always a factor in a fight. In fact you were about to argue that Angel was faster, then when you found out he wsn't you said Flying speed won't be a factor.

I too was not aware Falcon was faster than Angel. You'd think the natural flyer would be faster.

No no, you took what I said out of context. But that's okay, it was kind of confusing.

Speed is essential to victory, but not the kind of speed you're referring to. I'm refering to quickness, agility, reflexes, and combat speed. You're referring to straightforward, in-a-race-to-the-finish speed; who can get to a destination faster.

Angel has the advantage in all of those except for the straightforward speed. And since this isn't a race, Falcon's straightfoward speed advantage won't really prove to be beneficial in this fight. He doesn't move anywhere near fast enough to not be seen. Plus, Angel has superhuman sight, part of his mutation. Know what I mean?

hmm... maybe it's just me but last time I checked Falcon had telepathy over all birds not just Redwing, so if Sam gets to use his telepathy to call for assistance Angels in for one tough fight... otherwise I think Warren will take it more times than not.

Originally posted by BetaRayBill
hmm... maybe it's just me but last time I checked Falcon had telepathy over all birds not just Redwing, so if Sam gets to use his telepathy to call for assistance Angels in for one tough fight... otherwise I think Warren will take it more times than not.

"Help me my avian brothers"

*Angel get's devoured by birds*

"Hah , and I didn't even need Hudlin to do it" !

Originally posted by grey fox
"Help me my avian brothers"

*Angel get's devoured by birds*

"Hah , and I didn't even need Hudlin to do it" !

Haha! I wouldn't even doubt that something like that could happen, since Angel gets such little respect on the Marvel Universe. I mean, I know he's not hella powerful, but still. He can get the job done, nonetheless.

Sam and Warren are a little even but Warren still wins.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah. That's impressive. I wasn't aware of that.

Unfortunately, for Sam, however, this is not a race. Flying speed won't mean much in this fight, if any at all. Warren is still the superior aerial fighter.

Impressive nonetheless though.
warren is not the superior areal fight like I said falcon is the superior figher in the air even iron man has stated this fact

Originally posted by capt it up
warren is not the superior areal fight like I said falcon is the superior figher in the air even iron man has stated this fact

When did Iron Man state that? And for that matter, when has Iron Man fought Warren or seen his abilities?

Sam is the superior fighter on the ground. No one's debating that. Warren, however, is the superior flyer and the superior aerial fighter.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When did Iron Man state that? And for that matter, when has Iron Man fought Warren or seen his abilities?

Sam is the superior fighter on the ground. No one's debating that. Warren, however, is the superior flyer and the superior aerial fighter.
Iron man stated him self in falcon civil war file that falcon is the most skilled and best arial fighter.


He also been mention by capt as being so as well.


so to say warrenten is the superior arial fighter is false.

Originally posted by capt it up
Iron man stated him self in falcon civil war file that falcon is the most skilled and best arial fighter.

He also been mention by capt as being so as well.

so to say warrenten is the superior arial fighter is false.

That's like saying that if I didn't know what a firehose was I could say that the toaster is the best device to put out a fire.

Without the other variable with which to compare, it doesn't hold much validity.

And of course the writers would have Iron Man and Cap would say that about Sam. He's pretty active in the Civil War right now. Angel's been out of the spotlight for a long time now, and it seems they're not going to be bringing him back into it any time soon.

I seem to recall that you still haven't proved that Sam can fly without holding onto his wings. I've looked up many pictures of him, and I don't believe I ever saw him flying without holding onto his wings somehow (even the hard-light ones). Warren, on the other hand, has a distinct advantage there, being able to fly and fight with his hands at the same time.

Are you really going to make me bring up all this stuff agian?

"Flight is as natural for Archangel as it is for a bird and he's been heavily trained by Professor X, especially in mastering his flight indoors. His agility while flying appears unmatched in the Marvel Universe, and he's been seen several times defeating other superbeings much faster than him (like the Human Torch) by dodging them and having them smash against the ground or a wall at full speed. The strength in his natural wings can easily break a man's arm or leg, or even project someone through a wall."

I'd hate to receive a wing-shot from Warren. Broken bones all over the place for Sam.

And then there's the SUPERHUMAN endurance as well. He can keep flying and fighting all day if he wants. Sam will fatigue just like any other human of athletic variety.

And why do you seem to keep ignoring the healing factor? Sure, it's not Wolverine's, but it's still plenty good.

Decently good healing factor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No healing factor.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no, you took what I said out of context. But that's okay, it was kind of confusing.

Speed is essential to victory, but not the kind of speed you're referring to. I'm refering to quickness, agility, reflexes, and combat speed. You're referring to straightforward, in-a-race-to-the-finish speed; who can get to a destination faster.

Angel has the advantage in all of those except for the straightforward speed. And since this isn't a race, Falcon's straightfoward speed advantage won't really prove to be beneficial in this fight. He doesn't move anywhere near fast enough to not be seen. Plus, Angel has superhuman sight, part of his mutation. Know what I mean?

Yea i see what your saying... your referring more to quickness/reaction time/agility. Which are all extremely important factors of a fight.

However, str8 forward speed can also be a very signifcant factor in a brawl. Think about speedblitzing, think of escaping a dangerous situation or getting away from an opponent to regain tactical position, how about catching an enemy if their trying to get away. Their are many circumstances that str8 forward speed could be a great advantge in a fight.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Yea i see what your saying... your referring more to quickness/reaction time/agility. Which are all extremely important factors of a fight.

However, str8 forward speed can also be a very signifcant factor in a brawl. Think about speedblitzing, think of escaping a dangerous situation or getting away from an opponent to regain tactical position, how about catching an enemy if their trying to get away. Their are many circumstances that str8 forward speed could be a great advantge in a fight.

While I agree with your assessment, I also feel that it would be more beneficial for Sam against a different kind of opponent. Sam can't move anywhere near fast enough to prove too difficult for Warren to still dodge with ease. Sure, if Sam moved at Mach 1, then things would be different. But 250 mph is fast, but not fast enough to catch Angel off-guard. Especially when he has faster reflexes, better agility, he's quicker, and more experienced with flying than Sam will pretty much ever be.

I agree, infact before somone brought up that 250 mph fact, I thought for sure Angel was faster and was about to debate in favor of Angel for that reason. Then when i saw that and had to change my argument in defense of Falcon.

I think Angel has more weapons at his disposal but Falcon has more experience and probably more aerial expertise.