Hulk Vs Apocalypse

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Emperor Ashtar
Who wins?

TricksterPriest
Alot of people will say Hulk, but Apoc has restrained an enraged Hulk before. and unlike the Hulk, Apoc's body does not produce fatigue toxins, so he won't get tired. Not to mention no one has addressed the idea of Apoc absorbing gamma radiation. It enrages me to think of the insane number of PIS and CIS losses that Apoc has been the victim of. Apocalypse manhandles teams and is just below Herald class in terms of power. He's conceivably capable of beating a herald with strategy. SO WHY DO PEOPLE THINK HE WOULD LOSE TO A TABLE THROWN BY NAMOR?! blowup Besides, didn't Apoc turn Hulk into War Hulk? That proves he can beat him.

Rewmac
Oooorrrhhhhmmmm....Wrong forum?

Xplosive
Apocalypse

Howard_Jones
How did their fight go? Or did they have one?

Xplosive
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
How did their fight go? Or did they have one?

Enraged Hulk attacked him, Apocalypse stopped him, held him, lift him on his back with his strings and choked him. Hulk couldn't move and Apocalypse let him go and said that is better that Hulk doesn't repeat that, because he wouldn't t tolerate him anymore.
After that he turned him into War.

Howard_Jones
Hmm. Smart on Apoc's part. Yeah, he'd take this handily then.

Darth Martin
Originally posted by Rewmac
Oooorrrhhhhmmmm....Wrong forum? About to be moved.

Emperor Ashtar
But, how would apoc restrain the hulk? That would just make him,angry.

TricksterPriest
See Ashtar, the thing you're not seeing is, Apoc doesn't care if the Hulk is angry. He's just that strong. Even Savage Hulk couldn't beat Apoc. Apocalypse is stronger than the Hulk.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
See Ashtar, the thing you're not seeing is, Apoc doesn't care if the Hulk is angry. He's just that strong. Even Savage Hulk couldn't beat Apoc. Apocalypse is stronger than the Hulk. Hulks has some pretty crazy strength feats, But if apoc is that strong then damn.

Mrrungo Mu
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alot of people will say Hulk, but Apoc has restrained an enraged Hulk before. and unlike the Hulk, Apoc's body does not produce fatigue toxins, so he won't get tired. Not to mention no one has addressed the idea of Apoc absorbing gamma radiation. It enrages me to think of the insane number of PIS and CIS losses that Apoc has been the victim of. Apocalypse manhandles teams and is just below Herald class in terms of power. He's conceivably capable of beating a herald with strategy. SO WHY DO PEOPLE THINK HE WOULD LOSE TO A TABLE THROWN BY NAMOR?! blowup Besides, didn't Apoc turn Hulk into War Hulk? That proves he can beat him.

Does the Hulks body produce fatigue toxins? I thought it didn't.

Soljer
Originally posted by Mrrungo Mu
Does the Hulks body produce fatigue toxins? I thought it didn't.

His healing factor SLOWS the production of lactic acid and the like, but it doesn't completely ELIMINATE them.

TricksterPriest
From the marvel database on En Sabah Nur, Superhuman Stamina: Apocalypse's body produces practically no fatigue toxins during physical activity. Apocalypse can exert himself at peak capacity almost indefinitely

Same source, Hulk, Superhuman Stamina: The Hulk's body counteracts fatique poisons that build up in his muscles during physical activity. In an enraged state, the Hulk is capable of exerting himself at peak capacity for several days before fatigue begins to affect him. However, much like his physical strength, the Hulk's stamina does increase as he becomes angrier.

Now, this says that although Hulk's strength can increase, eventually even the Hulk will suffer fatigue.

And..... Bio-Molecular Armored Body (Celestial Tech Augmentation): Apocalypse can alter the molecular structure of his body at will. Using this he could alter his appearance or the size of his body by taking on additional mass from a presumably extra dimensional source. Through this ability to alter his form, Apocalypse can give himself virtually any superhuman physical power, as he can transform his arms and fists into various melee weapons.

Superhuman Strength (Celestial Tech Augmentation): Apocalypse possesses superhuman strength, the limits of which aren't known. Apocalypse has shown to be strong enough to physically restrain the Hulk while the Hulk is in an enraged state. Hence, Apocalypse is capable of lifting well in excess of 100 tons.


http://www.marveldatabase.com/Apocalypse_%28En_Sabah_Nur%29

And that should be the last word on these arguements for Apoc being physically weak.

jgiant
I read in the big hulk book that his stamnia is in relation to his anger, as long as he is angry he does not tire.

TricksterPriest
We require some proof on this, because a number of sources indicate that, at least endurance-wise, the Hulk does have limits. He has been shown to get tired and fatigued, albeit after enormous exertion. Apocalypse does not produce fatigue toxins, and has virtually unlimited stamina. Obviously in a pure strength and H2H fight, it would probably go for a few days if they were set to equal levels. But eventually Apoc would win because his muscles don't get fatigued. That's not counting his psi and energy absorbtion powers. Or his higher physical strength. Or his higher intelligence.

Face it, Hulk's screwed. If Apoc made you a horseman, it means he owned your ass at some point. Being a horseman means you are Apocalypse's *****. stick out tongue

Lord S
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
See Ashtar, the thing you're not seeing is, Apoc doesn't care if the Hulk is angry. He's just that strong. Even Savage Hulk couldn't beat Apoc. Apocalypse is stronger than the Hulk. Well it's clear that you love Apocalypse, but let the truth be told: he sucks.

Regarding the 'fight' between Hulk and Apocalypse (in Hulk #456), there are a couple of important points that have to be made:

1. Hulk was not his normal self. Note that a few issues before #456, he collapsed in the Savage Land. I read something about having power fluctuations and shrapnel in his brain, which would explain why he was rather easily subdued by Apoc, as under normal conditions, it wouldn't have been that simple.

2. Hulk was not forced to become a Horseman. Apoc was talking down at him all throughout the issue, for sure, but Hulk stood there and listened to what he had to say, not even making any attempt to escape. He willingly became War.

Well something tells me you didn't even read the issue, so your opinion is totally invalid.

With all of that in mind, under normal conditions Hulk mops the floor with Apocalypse. If Hulk doesn't feel like fighting, then they're even money, at best.

TricksterPriest
I admit I'm an apoc fan. But I'm not wanking him. You're just buying into the hype that he sucks and the shitty writing he's had. He's been one of the greatest victims of PIS&CIS in a long time. Even if, in the unlikely event that Hulk is stronger than Apoc, Apoc still has psionics and energy absorbtion. What's stopping him from tapping that gamma powered strength? Or mind-raping Hulk?

Lord S
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I admit I'm an apoc fan. But I'm not wanking him. You're just buying into the hype that he sucks and the shitty writing he's had. He's been one of the greatest victims of PIS&CIS in a long time. Even if, in the unlikely event that Hulk is stronger than Apoc, Apoc still has psionics and energy absorbtion. What's stopping him from tapping that gamma powered strength? Or mind-raping Hulk? It's not hype, he DOES suck...and you can't keep using the excuse of 'shitty writing', PIS, CIS...that's the way the character has been written, and that's the way he should be judged.

I know you'd like to see that changed...well I would too, but there's nothing we can do about it short of sending emails over to Marvel and asking them to fix him up.

I will say that I do agree that he's been very poorly handled...I had high hopes for that 'Blood of Apocalypse' story, earlier this year...but was thoroughly let-down. It seems to me that Marvel has no idea what type of villain they want Apocalypse to be, which is why he's almost always humiliated for the sake of pushing others.

I think maybe they need to get him out of the X-verse and develop him into more of a Marvel-wide villain...there is potential there.

grey fox
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alot of people will say Hulk, but Apoc has restrained an enraged Hulk before.

You do realise that that was non-canon.

TricksterPriest
Non-canon yes, but it shows he was capable of it.

grey fox
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Non-canon yes, but it shows he was capable of it.

laughing

No it doesn't.

That shows what HEROES RE-BORN Apoc was capable of.

Xplosive
It was 616 Hulk during Heroes Reborn.

Xplosive
Hulk can't do shit, Apocalypse is too versatile, too powerful and could also match strenght with Hulk.

grey fox
Originally posted by Xplosive
It was 616 Hulk during Heroes Reborn.

Yes , but not 616 Apoc.

Hell the only actual 616 character WAS the Hulk , as he split off. The rest were AL HR.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Lord S
2. Hulk was not forced to become a Horseman. Apoc was talking down at him all throughout the issue, for sure, but Hulk stood there and listened to what he had to say, not even making any attempt to escape. He willingly became War.

Apocalypse told him that he won't tolerate Hulk anymore, if he attakc him again. Hulk tehn calemd down.
He didn't need to force him, he knew Hulk is stupid and would brainwash him, which he did actully.

Xplosive
Originally posted by grey fox
Yes , but not 616 Apoc.

Hell the only actual 616 character WAS the Hulk , as he split off. The rest were AL HR.

True, but if we are able to use something to solve this, it's that fight.

Xplosive
And not using like Lord S, under normal conditions Hulk would mop flour with him, based on what. And Lord S is hater of Apocalyse like mider of LT.
Under normal conditions Apocalypse would easily destroy Hulk.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Xplosive
True, but if we are able to use something to solve this, it's that fight. How so?

Xplosive
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
How so?

Or how so Hulk would defeat him? Hulk has strenght, that is it, Apocalypse has far more than that and possibly even his strenght could match Hulk and of course durability and is far smarter.

I just say, go to Apocalypse Respect thread and download that from filefront and that is it, ok?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/366884_3-respect-apocalypse

I won't argue anymore, just go read it, for all of you who are interested and not anymore talking just from your mind.

Lord S
Originally posted by Xplosive
It was 616 Hulk during Heroes Reborn. Just like it was 616 Apocalypse during House of M that got wiped out by a Black Bolt whisper.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse told him that he won't tolerate Hulk anymore, if he attakc him again. Hulk tehn calemd down.
He didn't need to force him, he knew Hulk is stupid and would brainwash him, which he did actully. So why do people like you talk as though Apoc physically dominated him and forced him to become a Horseman?

Originally posted by Xplosive
And not using like Lord S, under normal conditions Hulk would mop flour with him, based on what. And Lord S is hater of Apocalyse like mider of LT.
Under normal conditions Apocalypse would easily destroy Hulk. Under normal conditions even Dr. Doom would have his way with the Hulk, using the same tactics Apocalypse would employ, ie. using his mind. In a purely physical contest, Hulk would eventually overpower Apoc.

Also, I'm not a hater of Apocalypse...you on the other hand are so in love with the character that it clouds your vision.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Lord S
Just like it was 616 Apocalypse during House of M that got wiped out by a Black Bolt whisper.

So why do people like you talk as though Apoc physically dominated him and forced him to become a Horseman?

Under normal conditions even Dr. Doom would have his way with the Hulk, using the same tactics Apocalypse would employ, ie. using his mind. In a purely physical contest, Hulk would eventually overpower Apoc.

Also, I'm not a hater of Apocalypse...you on the other hand are so in love with the character that it clouds your vision.


That's a blatent mischaracterization. That was not Apoc in House of M. That was a construct based on Wanda's characterization, and the real Apoc has beaten BB, the inhuman royal family and X-factor at the same time before.

Apoc could easily physically dominate him, what part of unlimited stamina do you not get? Eventually even the hulk gets fatigued. Not to mention energy absorbtion and his molecular control of his body.

I recoqnize, good sir, when a character has been beaten by blatent PIS&CIS. You on the other hand, look at those same PIS&CIS showings, and claim that Apocalypse wasn't jobbed and that he really is at that level of power. You ignore any evidence to the contrary, be it scans, other member's testimony, and even the direct comic book evidence itself of Apocalypse's power.

jostopholees
How about someone post scans of that apoc-hulk confrontation.......

Lord S
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
That's a blatent mischaracterization. That was not Apoc in House of M. That was a construct based on Wanda's characterization, and the real Apoc has beaten BB, the inhuman royal family and X-factor at the same time before. So I suppose all of the other characters featured in 'House of M' were also merely constructs of Wanda, right? Their memories were altered...yes, but their powers and abilities remained the same...why would those be different?

Understand that it was not a different reality...it was 616. Read UXM 462-465...where Wanda's Chaos Wave is clearly identified as originating from Universe-616.

And you base this on what?

What part of 'hyperbole' do you not get? There's no such thing as unlimited. I look at his 'unlimited stamina' the same way I do his uncanny ability to 'grant himself whatever power he chooses'...which has also never been verified on panel, BTW.

Show one instance of him getting tired in a time period shorter than it would take to hand Apoc his ass.

I can appreciate your ability to read bios...but without conclusive on-panel evidence to back it up, it's worthless.

Yadda, yadda, yadda...yet little Jean Grey was able to pry his organic mask off, exposing his human face. Oh wait let me guess...that was CIS and PIS!!1 Of course.

But your viewpoint is already skewed with bias...so EVERY loss will be interpreted as PIS/CIS.

Untrue.

I give the character his due against the likes of Ikaris, and Loki (even though he need help from Caliban), and the fact that he was able to take out the X-Men's B-team...but one-on-one in a purely physical contest against the Hulk...he's got his hands full.

Howard_Jones
Apocalypse is not beating Hulk fist to fist. You can throw that right out the window.

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by jostopholees
How about someone post scans of that apoc-hulk confrontation.......

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers11.png

Howard_Jones
Not really much of a fight.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Lord S
I give the character his due against the likes of Ikaris, and Loki (even though he need help from Caliban), and the fact that he was able to take out the X-Men's B-team...but one-on-one in a purely physical contest against the Hulk...he's got his hands full.

Why do you exaggarate against Loki, even before Caliban came, he was having the upper hand. Before Caliban came, Loki crashed into his head, Apocalypse was smilling, while Loki had actully pain on his back due to his face and was holding his back.
Then Caliban came, there was no help from Caliban in the actual fight. They trapped him, Loki saved himself and escaped, left.
Loki manipulated many others, but couldn't do anything to Apocalypse.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Lord S
Just like it was 616 Apocalypse during House of M that got wiped out by a Black Bolt whisper.

True Apocalypse was dead, literally.

Originally posted by Lord S
So why do people like you talk as though Apoc physically dominated him and forced him to become a Horseman?

Once again turning my words, like usually, while it is seen in my quote that Apocalypse actully brainwashed him (like talking him into) and not forced him.
And in that fight, he still did better, no matter what you say, dominated him, no, but quickly made him standstill and Hulk couldn't do anything, could that even been said dominated, to make someone in that position so quickly, maby it could be said even, some kind of domination.
When you see how quickly made Hulk where he wanted him to be, like it wasn't a fight, because how quickly and Apocalypse did what he wanted (it looked like not some fight because of that, while Hulk wanted to fight), yes, maby could be said in some words domiantion.

Originally posted by Lord S
are so in love with the character that it clouds your vision.

Is that why you are turning my words over and over again.

Apocalypse did better of Hulk in confrotation, but would Hulk or should deaft him in pure phyical contest, yes, he should. But would I be suprised, if Apocalypse would beat him also in pure physical contest, no, I wouldn't ne, based that his power should offer him to increase his strengt potentially limitless (and he should increase his strenght quicker then Hulk based on his anger), ok, but that are words, that is why I say, Hulk should win, but if they would write him to really increase his strenght as it is said he is capable, then I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Apocalypse would overpower him also physically.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse would overpower him also physically.

No.

Hulk is strongest there is isn't a mantra. It's a fact, and it's been established.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
No.

Hulk is strongest there is isn't a mantra. It's a fact, and it's been established.

Look, Howard_Jones, don't do that. You quoted me, Originally posted by Xplosive Apocalypse would overpower him also physically. while I said Originally posted by Xplosive then I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Apocalypse would overpower him also physically.

So, somehow, again like turning my words.
And to correct you, no, Hulk is not the strongest there is.

Howard_Jones
So, you think Apoc is stronger?

Xplosive
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
So, you think Apoc is stronger?

Originally posted by Xplosive
that is why I say, Hulk should win, but if they would write him to really increase his strenght as it is said he is capable, then I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Apocalypse would overpower him also physically.

That is what I said.
Hulk is stronger.
And Hulk isn't strongest there is.

Howard_Jones
Never heard of Hulk Hulk.

Anywho, aside from abstracts and such, Hulk is the strongest hero in comics. That's essentially what the phrase means.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Never heard of Hulk Hulk.

Mistake I edited, and wasn't really worth mentioning.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Anywho, aside from abstracts and such, Hulk is the strongest hero in comics. That's essentially what the phrase means.

So, that already means, not the strongest there is, right?.
Hulk did defeat Gladiator, but are his strenght feats beyond that of Gladiator, I don't think so.
Galactus is not an abstract, as are not Celestails.
Could someone like Odin level and above increase their srenght to go beyond that of Hulk, probably.
I have no doubt that Cyttorak could, since Juggernaut who has fraction of his powers, is somehow match for Hulk strenght.
But about being the strongest of heros, he surely is among top, as he probably goes beyond that of Silver Surfer and such, but I am not sure about Gladiator, who physically defeated Ego.

Howard_Jones
I don't remember ever seeing Gladiator beat Ego. However, Hulk does have feats that do make Gladiator look pretty bad, such as a clash that sent shockwaves through multiple realities, grabbing timestreams and certain types of energy and pulling them apart, and then there's the smashing of something twice the size of a planet.

King KAM
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
I don't remember ever seeing Gladiator beat Ego. However, Hulk does have feats that do make Gladiator look pretty bad, such as a clash that sent shockwaves through multiple realities, grabbing timestreams and certain types of energy and pulling them apart, and then there's the smashing of something twice the size of a planet. yeah glads to ego out man....but who Cares? hes still a push-over.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by King KAM
yeah glads to ego out man....but who Cares? hes still a push-over.

Except when it comes to Vulcan. laughing

Xplosive
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
I don't remember ever seeing Gladiator beat Ego. However, Hulk does have feats that do make Gladiator look pretty bad, such as a clash that sent shockwaves through multiple realities, grabbing timestreams and certain types of energy and pulling them apart, and then there's the smashing of something twice the size of a planet.

Gladiator also teared planed into dust.
Didn't he also tear star apart or only went through it, I don't remember?
And defeating Ego is a big deal.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by Xplosive
Gladiator also teared planed into dust.
Didn't he also tear star apart or only went through it, I don't remember?
And defeating Ego is a big deal.

Well, Glads has the proper powerset for it. So did Thor and Beta Ray Bill (though Bill beat him twice in the same issue). I do remember Gladiator pushing planets and such like they were nothing, but I don't remember if he tore a star apart. I'll go look for the scans.

The only reason Hulk can't do that sort of thing is because of lack of powerset.

TricksterPriest
I'll tell you a few guys stronger than Hulk. Morg with waters of life seems more powerful, Tyrant, Thanos, Apoc (properly written as Xplosive said, he is probably in the top 4 or 5 mutants on earth, maybe top 3), Gladiator is dicey, Drax? (not sure, but yes with power gem), RK Thor (some people say even classic Thor trumps Hulk)...... I can keep doing this for awhile. potentially any herald can boost their power to the level of Hulk. Not sure if eternals can go that far outside of Thanos. Btw, Apocalypse beat Ikaris, an eternal elder, so tell me, could Hulk do that?

Howard_Jones
That's powerlevel. Also, Hulk's beaten elders before as well. He's also stronger than Drax, Apoc, etc. That's physical strength, not overall power.

SpunkySmurph
1. This thread has been done more then once before

2. Apoc takes this. With little difficulty

Kurash
a properly written apocalypse would smack hulk around like a little girl

Lord S
Originally posted by Xplosive
*insert drivel here* You've already admitted that in a physical contest, Apocalypse would go down...so that the end of the discussion.

Evil_Ash
Well, Apocalypse can increase his strength by drawing upon outside energy sources. As such, he is capable of lifting far in excess of 100 tons. Much like the Hulk can in his enraged state.

I'm not saying Apocalypse would trash around the Hulk like a rag doll, however, I do see him be able to challenge the Hulk, perhaps to an extent stalemate him, as he can keep tapping into energy sources.

Decay
both of them have potentially limitless strength, but apocalypse has many more powers. his healing factor isnt great but he is more durable. as hulk gets stronger he gets dumber, apocalypse is always as intelligent, size shifting, forming ranged and melee weapons, teleporting and more. apocalypse should win fairly easy.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Lord S
You've already admitted that in a physical contest, Apocalypse would go down...so that the end of the discussion.

Yes, I did, but I also said, that if Apocalypse would overpower him physically, I wouldn't be surprised.

King KAM
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, I did, but I also said, that if Apocalypse would overpower him physically, I wouldn't be surprised. I Would be, Apoc sucks...

guy222
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Who wins?

Ole Greenskin

Evil_Ash
Perhaps we should have picked the Animated Apocalypse versus the Hulk...

Mider999
apoc has great feats he would win

juggernaut66666
omg_smilie

Redatom65
here we go here we go. Fanboy fight.

Tough fight. Apocalypse 6/10

TricksterPriest
Current Apoc would win 7/10. Classic Apoc destroys Hulk.

guy222
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Current Apoc would win 7/10. Classic Apoc destroys Hulk.

u know, i gonna disagree

give hulk 5/10

Bol Gath
In a pure slugfest Apoc would be defeated, he cannot hang with Hulk in the strenght departement. Hulk 9/10

But in a fight where Apoc is allowed to use his powers correctly He would most probably win 6-7/10

I like Apoc and think It's a great shame that marvel can't portray him as he should be portrayed. But he has never done anything to show he can hang with Hulk's strenght. well atleast not from what I've seen.

Decay
except when he physically restrained the hulk. apocalypse wins, hes as strong as the hulk and has way more abilities. he wouldnt give hulk a serious power boost and turn him into war hulk if he thought that the hulk was a threat to him.

Bol Gath
That's heroes reborn apoc vs 616 hulk so it doesnt count.

StarsNeverFall7
I'll have to agree with Bol Gath here,

In a pure slugfest, strength only.. Apocalypse has no shot of winning here. Hulk beats the hell out of him 9/10

Full powerset? That's a different story, despite Apoc's great ability to always lose, he does have quite a few different items at his disposal which give him a versatility advantage. Ill give him about a 6/10 here...

Evil_Ash
"Heroes reborn Apoc"?

TricksterPriest
*ahem* CURRENT Apoc jobs and has great ability to lose, as you said.

CLASSIC Apoc was a beast and would easily demolish Hulk.

Beta Ray Howard
This depends on your view of "classic" apoc.

Apoc at an average is a pretty low end top tier. He's just a good planner, for an X-Men villain.

When he leaves that area, he's by no means as powerful as guys like Thor. If he had some time to plan for the battle, he'd win. All that scan really shows, now that I think about it, that he had Hulk restrained enough to appeal to him. It's not really a victory. erm

Hulk would probably take Majority, but it would be slim.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Hulk would probably take Majority, but it would be slim.

Generally, Apocalypse should take this 9-10/10.
Hulk is too one dimensional to win against Apocalypse.

DevilGoblin
Originally posted by Decay
except when he physically restrained the hulk. apocalypse wins, hes as strong as the hulk and has way more abilities. he wouldnt give hulk a serious power boost and turn him into war hulk if he thought that the hulk was a threat to him.

Hulk did not fight him because he considered Apoc as his new father or he would have killed him easy.

Hulk wins easy 9/10

qqqqqqq
Originally posted by DevilGoblin
Hulk did not fight him because he considered Apoc as his new father or he would have killed him easy.

Hulk wins easy 9/10 why don't you put 10/10 since apocalypse only has a 10% chance of winning the hulk.

FearOfBlood
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
*ahem* CURRENT Apoc jobs and has great ability to lose, as you said.

CLASSIC Apoc was a beast and would easily demolish Hulk.

Don't be silly roll eyes (sarcastic)

In a slugfest any version of the hulk should rape Apoc

In all out fight, Hulk takes a slightly maority (6/10)

swerve1988
APOC1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000/10

juggernaut66666
This thread makes me happy. happy

hulk10
Hulk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TricksterPriest
Screw you jugg. stick out tongue Hulk dies hard. Total mismatch. And for the love of god, use Classic Apoc, not current. Otherwise, it's basically spite because of the jobbing Marvel has inflicted on Apoc.

kenghay
It seems to me that if Apocalypse has the power to give Hulk the ability to stop Juggernaut and behead him I'd say Apocalypse would take Hulk. In just a hand to hand situation I can see a very angry Hulk putting a bad hurt on his ass.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Screw you jugg. stick out tongue Hulk dies hard. Total mismatch. And for the love of god, use Classic Apoc, not current. Otherwise, it's basically spite because of the jobbing Marvel has inflicted on Apoc. u cant eliminate apocs losses. so u only want to count when he wins huh. yeah thats not one sided.

try looking at the bigger picture here.

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by quanchi112
u cant eliminate apocs losses. so u only want to count when he wins huh. yeah thats not one sided.

try looking at the bigger picture here.

Apocalypse doesn't have any "losses", not any that matters in a debate anyway...

Master-Borg
apoc

Classic NES
Bump

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Classic NES
Bump

Great necrobump thumb up

https://i.ibb.co/jh4Zn5X/thread-necro.gif

Classic NES
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great necrobump thumb up

https://i.ibb.co/jh4Zn5X/thread-necro.gif

Didn't even know I made this thread back then. smile

Stoic
When I read that comic, Apocalypse seemed to have prepared for his encounter with the Hulk. He wanted to convert, or change him into War. Prep was never mentioned in the OP.

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Stop.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
When I read that comic, Apocalypse seemed to have prepared for his encounter with the Hulk. He wanted to convert, or change him into War. Prep was never mentioned in the OP.

I didn't read it, just saw scans of the scene. But I don't recall anything to say Apocalypse had anything with him.

Having something ready to change Hulk after doesn't mean there was prep in the fight itself. Was Apocalypse actually shown to do or use anything or even something said to support this or are you assuming he used prep?

Classic NES
Apoc looked unamped to me. What exactly did he bring with him?

Delta1938
Originally posted by Classic NES
Apoc looked unamped to me. What exactly did he bring with him?

If this is to me, I've only seen scans of the fight. It's possible he used something beforehand that wasn't shown in those scans but before.....but that's not my job to prove he didn't use anything to amp.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Delta1938
If this is to me, I've only seen scans of the fight. It's possible he used something beforehand that wasn't shown in those scans but before.....but that's not my job to prove he didn't use anything to amp.

My bad it was addressed to stoic.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Classic NES
My bad it was addressed to stoic.

That's why we have the quote feature!! mad laughing

If you're having issues quoting him(I am too) clicking Quick Quote works, though definitely less flexible.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Delta1938
That's why we have the quote feature!! mad laughing

If you're having issues quoting him(I am too) clicking Quick Quote works, though definitely less flexible.

Yeah, I typed up a response in a hurry. Should've made sure I actually hit the quote button. embarrasment

Delta1938
Originally posted by Classic NES
Yeah, I typed up a response in a hurry. Should've made sure I actually hit the quote button. embarrasment

I sentence you to getting locked up with a platypus!! Which.....yeah that would end in pain.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Delta1938
I didn't read it, just saw scans of the scene. But I don't recall anything to say Apocalypse had anything with him.

Having something ready to change Hulk after doesn't mean there was prep in the fight itself. Was Apocalypse actually shown to do or use anything or even something said to support this or are you assuming he used prep?

The fight itself consisted of a single panel of Nur effortlessly restraining the Hulk with a single arm.

And considering how Nur is the same guy who went toe to toe with High Evolutionary, who was using the same form that allowed him to briefly stalemate Galactus, it's really nothing surprising.

As for what happened before - Nur simply teleported the Hulk to his place. That's it.

MrMind
there's a reason hulk is the most powerful on marvel earth along with thor and sentry, and not the mutants

Delta1938
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The fight itself consisted of a single panel of Nur effortlessly restraining the Hulk with a single arm.

And considering how Nur is the same guy who went toe to toe with High Evolutionary, who was using the same form that allowed him to briefly stalemate Galactus, it's really nothing surprising.

As for what happened before - Nur simply teleported the Hulk to his place. That's it.

Yeah, for me to think he used prep I'd have to see something taking place beforehand of him actually preparing. I saw nothing used that was obvious.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yeah, for me to think he used prep I'd have to see something taking place beforehand of him actually preparing. I saw nothing used that was obvious.

Stoic just gets lost in his fan fiction too much sometimes.

Delta1938
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Stoic just gets lost in his fan fiction too much sometimes.

As much as Pr gets into his fanfic....?

carver9
People are forgetting Hulk was literally dying when he faced Apocalypse. His body was collapsing due to circumstances that happened after his fight against Onslaught, and, not only that, he had a shrapnel in his brain that was killing him and giving him split personalities that also had him fatigued and passing the F out consistently. Stop being try hards.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Delta1938
As much as Pr gets into his fanfic....?

laughing out loud

Delta1938
And didn't that same shrapnel undo the he would revert to Savage Banner limit while he was amped by being an energy conduit for the HEROES REBORN universe, the entire reason why Apocalypse wanted him to be War?

carver9
He was dying and had split personalities. You can not ignore this. His durability also took a HUGE hit. His powers were all over the place and he was having seizures and sh**. Again, stop being a try hard

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
He was dying and had split personalities. You can not ignore this. His durability also took a HUGE hit. His powers were all over the place and he was having seizures and sh**. Again, stop being a try hard

The only one I see being a try hard is you, to be honest.

carver9
No, you're ignoring context but don't do the same thing for Superman. Replace Hulk with Superman in this situation and it'll open your eyes.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
No, you're ignoring context but don't do the same thing for Superman. Replace Hulk with Superman in this situation and it'll open your eyes.

The irony is delicious.

You're claiming it but not showing it. Of course knowing you being a liar who doesn't admit he's wrong, I would also need the references to read.

But why didn't you respond to what parts I asked? Was he not amped channeling that energy making Apocalypse want to use him to begin with?

Stoic

carver9
I'm going to say this again and I'm done after this. The energy that was entering Hulk was KILLING HIM. Some situations he felt strong and in some situations, he would just pass TF out. Not only that, he had something INSIDE OF HIS BRAIN that was also killing him. What do we consider this? CONTEXT!!! This should not be ignores. I need you to read the comic before I posts scans because at this point in time, his mind being tampered with and him dying should matter. Kind of like Superman being sun amped AND his mind being tampered with when fighting Wonder Woman (and still losing) shouldn't count, right? Difference is, Hulk was dying due to certain circumstances whereas Superman was above the height of his power and still lost.

StiltmanFTW

Stoic
Post scans Carver. The context is over 2 decades old.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And he still was powerful enough to walk through anything X-Men threw at him at the X-Mansion...

That's a much better approach than Stoic's, as there's at least some solid evidence to support it.

Keep in mind that despite his vulnerability, at the same time he seemed stronger than ever, though. As Wolverine noted.



He was prepared for augmenting him and getting himself a new horseman.

He didn't need any prep to easily subjugate him.

His left arm sufficed stick out tongue

He wasn't consistently that strong though. Sometimes he couldn't even walk. All of the things that happened during that time should 100% be ignored since he powers were jacked tf up.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
I'm going to say this again and I'm done after this. The energy that was entering Hulk was KILLING HIM. Some situations he felt strong and in some situations, he would just pass TF out. Not only that, he had something INSIDE OF HIS BRAIN that was also killing him. What do we consider this? CONTEXT!!! This should not be ignores. I need you to read the comic before I posts scans because at this point in time, his mind being tampered with and him dying should matter. Kind of like Superman being sun amped AND his mind being tampered with when fighting Wonder Woman (and still losing) shouldn't count, right? Difference is, Hulk was dying due to certain circumstances whereas Superman was above the height of his power and still lost.

So it's your job to prove your case and you tell me to read the comics, when you don't even give me the issue numbers to read? This is a fail even by your standards.

Your Xbox gamertag change is far more accurate, your headache inducing stupidity does bring pain.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't consistently that strong though. Sometimes he couldn't even walk. All of the things that happened during that time should 100% be ignored since he powers were jacked tf up.

It's a damn good thing that he was wrecking havoc at X-Mansion mere moments before Apocalypse kidnapped him via instant teleportation, then cool

Delta1938
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's a damn good thing that he was wrecking havoc at X-Mansion mere moments before Apocalypse kidnapped him via instant teleportation, then cool

I suspect like another instance he got called out on he'll claim Hulk got weaker after.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Delta1938
I suspect like another instance he got called out on he'll claim Hulk got weaker after.

The air outside the mansion does that to you lol.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Classic NES
The air outside the mansion does that to you lol.

Carter has posted an example of someone weakening by the moment losing, then when shown the context argued he only started weakening after losing. I even asked if he was arguing that, because it was so bad I had trouble believing even he would argue it so thought I must have misread him.

StiltmanFTW
It's okay to argue he wasn't at his best - but he was quite capable of taking care of himself.

We work with what we have and that's the only time they've crossed paths.

Unless, of course, we wanted to include Evan-Apoc and Hulk's Hulk a.k.a. Kluh in this discussion:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/12/120293/7663343-apocalypsevskluh2.jpg

Guess Hulk is out of luck in this thread stick out tongue

Classic NES
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's okay to argue he wasn't at his best - but he was quite capable of taking care of himself.

We work with what we have and that's the only time they've crossed paths.

Unless, of course, we wanted to include Evan-Apoc and Hulk's Hulk a.k.a. Kluh in this discussion:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/12/120293/7663343-apocalypsevskluh2.jpg

Guess Hulk is out of luck in this thread stick out tongue

Everytime they've crossed paths or someone with Apoc tech crossed paths with Hulk. The latter has come out worst for it. So, yeah.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
So it's your job to prove your case and you tell me to read the comics, when you don't even give me the issue numbers to read? This is a fail even by your standards.

Your Xbox gamertag change is far more accurate, your headache inducing stupidity does bring pain.

Had a feeling Wonder Woman was >>>> Superman. She took on him and defeated him while he was amped. Nice talking with you.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Had a feeling Wonder Woman was >>>> Superman. She took on him and defeated him while he was amped. Nice talking with you.

That's why you accepted my BZ challenge on Xbox only to back down like always? You have so much false bravado.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's a damn good thing that he was wrecking havoc at X-Mansion mere moments before Apocalypse kidnapped him via instant teleportation, then cool

Don't think this is how it works. Me and you double teamed people in the past for saying things similar to the things you're doing here when people attacked Wolverine, ignoring context.

He had a piece of metal in his brain and was dying due to circumstances which was also messing with his durability. At least you're not pulling a Delta and you actually know these things happened. Now I just need to convince you that context like this throws our an terrible showing for the character.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's okay to argue he wasn't at his best - but he was quite capable of taking care of himself.

We work with what we have and that's the only time they've crossed paths.

Unless, of course, we wanted to include Evan-Apoc and Hulk's Hulk a.k.a. Kluh in this discussion:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/12/120293/7663343-apocalypsevskluh2.jpg

Guess Hulk is out of luck in this thread stick out tongue

Lol...never said Apolcalypse couldn't move Hulk but that same Hulk he's punching, wasn't it said no force on Earth could stop him?

Classic NES
Originally posted by carver9
Don't think this is how it works. Me and you double teamed people in the past for saying things similar to the things you're doing here when people attacked Wolverine, ignoring context.

He had a piece of metal in his brain and was dying due to circumstances which was also messing with his durability. At least you're not pulling a Delta and you actually know these things happened. Now I just need to convince you that context like this throws our an terrible showing for the character.


But, Carver what does durability have to do with being strong enough to break out of a restraint?

Delta1938
Carter's sodium levels are dangerously high.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Don't think this is how it works. Me and you double teamed people in the past for saying things similar to the things you're doing here when people attacked Wolverine, ignoring context.

He had a piece of metal in his brain and was dying due to circumstances which was also messing with his durability. At least you're not pulling a Delta and you actually know these things happened. Now I just need to convince you that context like this throws our an terrible showing for the character.

How is it a terrible showing again?

Apocalypse is more powerful than the Hulk in every way.

carver9
First scan mention how is Hulk alive, he should be dead...
https://ibb.co/XDwkGp0

Second scan shows his split personality and he almost kills Betty...
https://ibb.co/hmZDdm9
https://ibb.co/NLD71XM

Reaching for his head, split personalities, in pain and then he transforms into Maestro. Will be back with his passing out and sh** (Delta, you're trolling)...
https://ibb.co/4mCj58G
https://ibb.co/sCCdg02

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
First scan mention how is Hulk alive, he should be dead...
https://ibb.co/XDwkGp0

Second scan shows his split personality and he almost kills Betty...
https://ibb.co/hmZDdm9
https://ibb.co/NLD71XM

Reaching for his head, split personalities, in pain and then he transforms into Maestro. Will be back with his passing out and sh** (Delta, you're trolling)...
https://ibb.co/4mCj58G
https://ibb.co/sCCdg02

First off, I'm trolling because I'm calling you out on backing down from the challenge you accepted? You do have false bravado. You keep bringing this up like you're trying to get under my skin when you flat out proved you're afraid to BZ me on this.

Now to the scans. All the talk of split personalities, is this some straw grasping attempt to try and trick me because of the Superman vs Wonder Woman topic you get wrecked on? This doesn't hold the same water given how the fight played out. Hulk just got restrained. Even demanded to be let go, showing he couldn't get out. And that's giving Hulk the benefit of the doubt that he's as good a tactician and strategist.

The scans about his condition are much better, but your argument that Hulk wasn't always as powerful as when he wrecked the X Mansion is pretty hard to accept when Stilt says Hulk got teleported right after. This actually is the very hypocrisy you accuse me of, given the opposite stance you took when pimping out Martian Manhunter beating a weakened Ultraman. There we have it pointed out he's getting weaker by the moment. Your own words said Hulk fluctuated in power during this. Why should I believe you that he just suddenly got weaker right after showing how powerful he was?

carver9
Sigh...

carver9
Had moments of feeling stronger but it took a crap on his durability. He passes out from attacks that usually doesn't register to him...

First set of scans, he is surprised at the attack hurting him and fall to the ground due to the damage...
https://ibb.co/Qb3RMr6
https://ibb.co/mGKKJz5

Second set of scans, he feels stronger but passes the f out.
https://ibb.co/dKB95Ym
https://ibb.co/LZws02x

Explains that even though he is strong, he appears as if he could shatter with the simplest of breeze
https://ibb.co/9hYFT85

Context, context, context. Brain damage along with other crap that's going on with him. Glad this argument is happening. Wonder Woman>Superman. There's more scans of him passing out, etc... but I'm not posting it because this should be enough. He even mentions he is in pain due to the head shards

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Reaching for his head, split personalities, in pain and then he transforms into Maestro. Will be back with his passing out and sh** (Delta, you're trolling)...
https://ibb.co/4mCj58G
https://ibb.co/sCCdg02

Hmmmm... same arc in which he mercilessly kicks Thor's ass, yes? stick out tongue

Thought you wanted to make him look weak? wink

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hmmmm... same arc in which he mercilessly kicks Thor's ass, yes? stick out tongue

Thought you wanted to make him look weak? wink

A weakened Hulk wrecked Thor. That makes Hulk look stronger. Happy Dance

carver9
FYI... before anyone even mentions it, the heroes reborn energy inside of Hulk crap happened AFTER his fight with Thor.

Stoic

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Sigh...

You not liking reality doesn't invalidate what I said.

Originally posted by carver9
Had moments of feeling stronger but it took a crap on his durability. He passes out from attacks that usually doesn't register to him...

First set of scans, he is surprised at the attack hurting him and fall to the ground due to the damage...
https://ibb.co/Qb3RMr6
https://ibb.co/mGKKJz5

Second set of scans, he feels stronger but passes the f out.
https://ibb.co/dKB95Ym
https://ibb.co/LZws02x

Explains that even though he is strong, he appears as if he could shatter with the simplest of breeze
https://ibb.co/9hYFT85

Context, context, context. Brain damage along with other crap that's going on with him. Glad this argument is happening. Wonder Woman>Superman. There's more scans of him passing out, etc... but I'm not posting it because this should be enough. He even mentions he is in pain due to the head shards

None of this actually changes anything I said. If anything I can argue the only issue is Hulk is in pain and he's just a pussy. The shatter with a simple breeze is her opinion, which could be explained by Hulk is in pain and a pussy.

The problem for you is the facts you admitted he at times performed great, Stilt said Hulk had just been wrecking before being teleported, and you're a proven hypocritical liar. In this very thread. Why should I believe you that Hulk facing Apocalypse was one of his moments of weakness when you don't deny the X mansion scene just before, and you argued Ultraman was weakened AFTER losing to Martian Manhunter despite he was away from his power source for two days and getting weaker by the moment?

You don't even acknowledge the hypocrisy of you using that then whining like Veruca Salt not getting her way about context. You only care about context when it suits you, and are absolutely failing to prove Hulk was in his weak moments instead of strong.

And you desperately trying to use Superman vs Wonder Woman ignoring you backed down from my BZ is hilarious as it is pathetic. You keep bringing that up but ignoring you're afraid to BZ it just strengthens the fact that I can't trust you to be honest that Hulk for some reason suddenly had his moment of weakness after being strong because reasons.

carver9
Sad 🤦🏿

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Sad 🤦🏿

Yes, it's sad you're such an egotistical liar you won't admit you have given me no reason to trust you.

And a girl emoji? I didn't know you became a woman. So from Derrick to Erika.

StiltmanFTW
After that series of ducklips selfies on instagram, girl emojis are not surprising at all.

Delta1938
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
After that series of ducklips selfies on instagram, girl emojis are not surprising at all.

So that's why carter reps Wonder Woman so hard. He has a massive ego and identifies as Wonder Woman. How carter sees himself.

SckNfbptHc

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.