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But I think Metal gear solid 2 takes the cake.....

Towards the end of the game, between when you fought the 3 metal gear rays on top of arsenal, and the katana fight against Solidious. There is like 40 minutes of stuff in between them....movies, flash back, and codec conversation

Xenosaga games woot

Xenosaga/MGS2, never again.

But wait! FF is notorius for cut scenes! At the beginning, the middle, the end, everybody knows that :O Not that its a bad thing.

Does a 2 hour movie based on cutscenes count cos FF would still win, lol, 2 movies in CGi :P

Kingdom Hearts II had some ridiculously long cutscenes, too. Seems to be a Square trend.

Xenosaga. closedeyes

I'm kind of wanting to say Baten Kaitos as well and what makes it worse is that it's all in game cutscenes and it can be sooooo slow at times.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by IceJaw
Xenosaga games woot

Xenosaga games. They're not so much playing a game as watching a movie and occasionally pressing some buttons to go to the next scene.

Golden Sun has a very, very long cutscene... It lasts a good half an hour.

I heard FFVII - Dirge of Cerberus has quite a few long cut scenes

Soukaigi had ALOT of cutscenes.. and they were fairly lengthy

Lol, have u noticed, these are nearly all Square related, except the odd few, Xenosaga games were from an ex Squareenix staff who left, lol

RPGs loves cutscenes

the final fantasy games credits

Originally posted by SpadeKing
the final fantasy games credits

Low Blow.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by SpadeKing
the final fantasy games credits I just hate it when you can't skip the credits, or when you have spent ages playing a game just to get a rubbish ending and no extra features or unlockables, thats the end and no more *glares at FF10*

I don't usually mind cutscenes, in FPS I do, its stupid, in an RPG I can understand, bad graphics can often spoil a mood you are aiming for

Originally posted by SpadeKing
the final fantasy games credits

Nobody puts a gun to your head and says, "WATCH THE CREDITS, SEE WHO MADE THE GAME DAMMIT!" I only watch any game credits if they have a video or something playing of the characters. I don't give a **** who made the game. They did their job, now the sales give them money, that's it.

Originally posted by JToTheP
Nobody puts a gun to your head and says, "WATCH THE CREDITS, SEE WHO MADE THE GAME DAMMIT!" I only watch any game credits if they have a video or something playing of the characters. I don't give a **** who made the game. They did their job, now the sales give them money, that's it. Its okay if the game is 100% finished, but its annoying if you are not finished and want to play some more and are being forced to watch 20mins to 1/2 hours worth of credits.....GTA.....

Originally posted by Pulse2
bad graphics can often spoil a mood you are aiming for

I stopped assuming you had a decent opinion here.

Disgaea, Tales Of series, both 2D game series' that are far superior then FF10 & 11 which strive off pretty 3D graphics.

Graphics don't make a game, storyline and gameplay do.

Classic games will always be superior to new games with fancy graphics, get over yourself.

Super metroid>Prime saga

Mario 3 & World>>64 & Sunshine

Mario Kart: Super Circuit/DS>>Mario Kart 64/Double Dash

Zelda:Link to the past/Ocarina Of Time>>Majora's Mask/Wind Waker

Silent Hill 2>4

Sonic 1, 3 & Knuckles>Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

All the games I mentioned are GOOD, but the classic counterparts are superior. I miss the days of ONE year inbetween a game and it's sequal, not this 2,3 or 4 year wait in between just because of graphics.

Originally posted by Pulse2
Its okay if the game is 100% finished, but its annoying if you are not finished and want to play some more and are being forced to watch 20mins to 1/2 hours worth of credits.....GTA.....

Or how about you put the controller down, and occupy yourself until they're done? How hard is that?

Originally posted by JToTheP
I stopped assuming you had a decent opinion here.

Disgaea, Tales Of series, both 2D game series' that are far superior then FF10 & 11 which strive off pretty 3D graphics.

Graphics don't make a game, storyline and gameplay do.

Classic games will always be superior to new games with fancy graphics, get over yourself.

Super metroid>Prime saga

Mario 3 & World>>64 & Sunshine

Mario Kart: Super Circuit/DS>>Mario Kart 64/Double Dash

Zelda:Link to the past/Ocarina Of Time>>Majora's Mask/Wind Waker

Silent Hill 2>4

Sonic 1, 3 & Knuckles>Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

All the games I mentioned are GOOD, but the classic counterparts are superior. I miss the days of ONE year inbetween a game and it's sequal, not this 2,3 or 4 year wait in between just because of graphics. I didnt say graphics mean everything, I much prefer gameplay over graphics, however, cutscenes can play an important part of story telling in games, for example, if a romantic scene comes up, you're more likely to get a understanding and feel the emotion of the characters if you can see the expessions on thier faces etc, back with like NES graphics, although you can do it during gameplay, its not the same.

Intense scenes of a battle behind or giant ship flying by can sometimes be enhances with CGI or cutscenes, cutscenes are also like a short break to find out more about the storyline etc.

As for the credits, I do use the time to do other things, I'm not gonna sit there like a plank of wood and stare at scrolling names, but it is still rather frustrating if you want to do something and you can't skip the credits or at least speed them up

Originally posted by JToTheP
Nobody puts a gun to your head and says, "WATCH THE CREDITS, SEE WHO MADE THE GAME DAMMIT!" I only watch any game credits if they have a video or something playing of the characters. I don't give a **** who made the game. They did their job, now the sales give them money, that's it.

yea huh.... the company who made it makes sure you cant skip it

Originally posted by Pulse2
Its okay if the game is 100% finished, but its annoying if you are not finished and want to play some more and are being forced to watch 20mins to 1/2 hours worth of credits.....GTA.....

I turned the game off there I didn't want to watch those

Originally posted by SpadeKing
yea huh.... the company who made it makes sure you cant skip it



Oh well, I guess occupying yourself or watching them is too difficult.

Originally posted by JToTheP
Oh well, I guess occupying yourself or watching them is too difficult.

no I just watch it for the hell of knowing the names of the creators like Kenaichi towaiki forget what game that was though ermm

Originally posted by Pulse2
Intense scenes of a battle behind or giant ship flying by can sometimes be enhances with CGI or cutscenes, cutscenes are also like a short break to find out more about the storyline etc.



That's the same crap Square Enix strives off, because kids today are too ****in spoiled in their games. Final Fantasy 3 won't get the attention even I feel it deserves because of that 3D trash that is 12. The new final fantasies and majority of these Sci-Fi new games are complete bullshit.

I enjoy the cut-scene style where it isn't a full blown cinema movie, like Metal Gear Solid, they keep the same graphics during the cinemas, not the bullshit that Final Fantasy does.

FF games are meant to be like novels or movies, drama, love, etc etc, they are doing nothing wrong but using the same things they couldn't back then. Some RPG fans don't mind it, others do, guess its each for thier own tastes. I feel as though the plots themselves are slowly diminishing in originality and becoming rather cliche, but gameplay has vastly improved

MGS is a stealth game, you can't really compare it to an RPG.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
the final fantasy games credits
Metal gear solid 2 & 3 credits!

Owned

Originally posted by IceJaw
Metal gear solid 2

Owned

Fact. Snake Eater pwnz, 2 fails


FF games are meant to be like novels or movies, drama, love, etc etc, they are doing nothing wrong but using the same things they couldn't back then. Some RPG fans don't mind it, others do, guess its each for thier own tastes. I feel as though the plots themselves are slowly diminishing in originality and becoming rather cliche, but gameplay has vastly improved smile

MGS is a stealth game, you can't really compare it to an RPG.



Tales Of doesn't depend entirely on cinemas, there's very few in each game and they are underrated. Square Enix just spoils kids every since FF7, I bet none of them have played 1-6, and just play the new trash, which I'm not going back into.

Originally posted by IceJaw
Metal gear solid 2 & 3 credits!

Owned

KOTOR 2 credits

Originally posted by JToTheP
Fact. Snake Eater pwnz, 2 fails


FF games are meant to be like novels or movies, drama, love, etc etc, they are doing nothing wrong but using the same things they couldn't back then. Some RPG fans don't mind it, others do, guess its each for thier own tastes. I feel as though the plots themselves are slowly diminishing in originality and becoming rather cliche, but gameplay has vastly improved smile

MGS is a stealth game, you can't really compare it to an RPG.



Tales Of doesn't depend entirely on cinemas, there's very few in each game and they are underrated. Square Enix just spoils kids every since FF7, I bet none of them have played 1-6, and just play the new trash, which I'm not going back into. So why should Square Enix stop doing what they do so brilliantly? B/c "Tales Of......" doesn't do it?

Originally posted by JToTheP
Fact. Snake Eater pwnz, 2 fails


FF games are meant to be like novels or movies, drama, love, etc etc, they are doing nothing wrong but using the same things they couldn't back then. Some RPG fans don't mind it, others do, guess its each for thier own tastes. I feel as though the plots themselves are slowly diminishing in originality and becoming rather cliche, but gameplay has vastly improved smile

MGS is a stealth game, you can't really compare it to an RPG.



Tales Of doesn't depend entirely on cinemas, there's very few in each game and they are underrated. Square Enix just spoils kids every since FF7, I bet none of them have played 1-6, and just play the new trash, which I'm not going back into. Actually, I think the legend that is FF which brings newbies in also makes them want to learn more about FF's history, therefore they try out the older games like 1-6

Cinematics are just a part of the FF series, they use it because they can, doesn't spoil gameplay in any way, still get lots of time to play, the cinematics are just part of the gameplay I suppose, like after killing a boss, instead of delving stright back into gameplay, the cinematics sort of give you a present for your achievements, seeing two people falling in love or the creature blowing up. Also the cinematics add a bit extra, for example although FF10 sucked, I can do it no judgement on the cinematics and gameplay, its just the storyline I found rather crap and choice of bosses. Seeing Sin in the cinematics exploding things and creating tidal waves showed you the juggernaught that was Sin, made it kind of dramtic, thats good.

Originally posted by InnerRise
So why should Square Enix stop doing what they do so brilliantly? B/c "Tales Of......" doesn't do it?

I'm not saying they should, cuz they won't since teenagers like pretty cinemas and are easily attracted to pretty movies. The series is just overrated because of it, well 7-12 are, 3 I can safely say isn't, and 1-6 are remade n GBA not the new consoles where they could make pretty cinemas to attract kids.

Originally posted by JToTheP
I'm not saying they should, cuz they won't since teenagers like pretty cinemas and are easily attracted to pretty movies. The series is just overrated because of it, well 7-12 are, 3 I can safely say isn't, and 1-6 are remade n GBA not the new consoles where they could make pretty cinemas to attract kids. So basically you're saying all the Final Fantasy Games with top notch Cinematics are crap..............BECAUSE OF THE CINEMATICS?

Sounds pretty bias to me and the reasoning sounds weak. You dislike a game b/c of the game itself, not b/c the cutscenes are too pretty for you. I've never heard of such a thing.

And I won't be a teenager any longer by next week and I'll still be a fan of the Final Fantasy Series, so it's not just Teenagers buddy.

And the Final Fantasy games of late have had good stories along as well as good cinematics.
They don't just fall back on the cutscenes and throw crappy gameplay in there just for the heck of it.

Not all people play games just to see cutscenes. That's ridiculous.We play b/c of the story and the characters and the actual gameplay.

I really don't get your way of thinking on this matter.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

What JToThe P is saying is that the later FFs are focusing more on just shiny cinematics than on improved mechanics and stories to bring in new players. Which I agree with. When you get right down to it, 12's basic plot is Star Wars.

Most of the younger people (that I've seen) who started FF on the later games have no interest in playing the earlier games, because of the common misconception that 2D = crap game.

FF is overrated nowadays, and I'd be happy if "Best RPG series" fell to Dragon Quest or Tales. Both of those series strive to be unique and at least try to be fresh in plot. And Tales, of course, has the best battle system of any RPG.

Well being that I'm not a Star Wars fan, I wouldn't know anything about that.

And yes, Final Fantasy's story can be get pretty cliche and predictable nowadays but I think they tried to do something new with Final Fantasy 12 storywise. They didn't flesh out the story as much as they should have, but it is different from what they usually do.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Most of the younger people (that I've seen) who started FF on the later games have no interest in playing the earlier games, because of the common misconception that 2D = crap game.



Yes, thank you, that's the exact reason why Sony won't release most of the Tales Of Series in the US, 2D graphics. I.E. spoiled kids with 3D graphics rule the gaming market in Sony's mentality.

And I don't know about many of you, but I play games as an escape from the tediousness of reality and life, so I'm fine with 3D graphics to some extent, but when they try to look like actual humans is when I have a problem. I could watch a movie for $10-$20 with human beings, I don't need to see pixels in a video game that LOOK like actual people, not characters.

There are other RPGs out there, and yes they don't get much recognition, but hey, thats the way of gaming isn't it, the rishest and most well known companies or games are always the best in a normal gamers eyes, its like Halo, it isn't the best FPS ever made, there are lots of good FPS games with superb storylines that get overshadowed, or EA, when there are much better sports games. So I guess it just depends.

However, Final fantasy may be running slim stoyline wise and even becoming cliche, but while thier storylines aren't great, their gameplay usually is, there is nothing better then seein that same almighty creature you saw in 2d in 3d, the cinematics just add suspence and emotion to the game istelf, for example war clips get you hyped and ready for action, in 2d, it wouldn't be the same, all you'd see is blocky characters running about frantically, however, gameplay of those old FF games has not diminished in anyway, in fact, since FF7, the series seems to have gotten too futuristic and swayed from its key theme, old age knights, wizards and such, now its all about pretty boy with large sword falls in love with innocent looking girl. Bit pathetic, but hay, people like it, and it sells, so why the hell not.

Most devs in our modern world realise that most gamers today don't care much for a good storyline or certain aspects of gameplay like they were in the past, its like hollywood movies, anything to make money goes, Resistance, recent FF games and Halo, even Gears of wars are all examples, good games as they are, they lack in depth storylines, they lack emotion, they lack depth in general, but it does not stop Halo even with its rather bland storyline being the best selling FPS, or GOW also being one of the best for its pretty graphics, or FF games being the best selling RPG games despite its pretty graphics and nothing much else other then a new gameplay style and new characters.

If game devs or movie producers make money on something, why spend more time then they need to thinking of storylines or the gamer's emotion?

But no matter what you say, FF7 was the most emotional game I have ever played, with FF8 coming in second, all other games like Halo 2, MGS etc have been the same sort of thing, but FF7 and 8 out of all the FF games I have played or any game in the world I have played really got different parts of my emotions playing, sadness, hyped, bordom, stress, all.

Darnit! Why does something I spent a few moments typing always have to look like the bloody bible! Sorry people, I never know how much I have typed until I look afterwards, I type so fast it doesn't occur to me.

Anyway, you get the drift of what I said, so I'll be off, for a while.

Final Fantasy kept the same combat system since the first one just made it more useless to use anything. They finally changed it with XI and XII but still you play Final Fantasy I and then 7-9 the battle system is basically the same. Nothing special about it. Square-enix is capable of making better battle systems (Chrono series) and yet for some reason they kept Final Fantasy the same for the longest time. They just extended the game and filled it with flashy graphics and cutscenes.

Other RPGs are actually making the battle system more unique and enjoyable. Like the Tales series or Dragon Quest. They at least work to make a more enjoyable gaming experience then just throwing in flashy graphics and giving all the games the same battle system.

XI changed because it's an MMO RPG but compared to World of Warcraft it isn't much better. Most MMO RPGs keep the same basic concept: fecth quests. You know you always have to go to a mine, forest, or someplace far away to find a certain item and bring it back. It gets old really fast.

XII improved over X a lot. But the main character (A) looks like a girl and (B) hardly does anything in the game. XII is basically Star Wars just thrown into a Final Fantasy game which seems rather cheap. So many RPGs deserve the credit that Final Fantasy has but because they don't throw in hour after hour of cutscenes they don't. Playing a latter Final Fantasy game is like watching a movie and just pushing a button here and there to advance to the next scene.

I'm just saying that if I wanted to watch a movie I could spend $30-40 less to do so rather then wasting $50-60 on a video game when I could be playing something else that focuses on gameplay rather then trying to have the best graphics. Graphics are a nice thing to have been a game can have the best graphics ever and it can still suck.

There are other RPGs out there, and yes they don't get much recognition, but hey, thats the way of gaming isn't it, the rishest and most well known companies or games are always the best in a normal gamers eyes, its like Halo, it isn't the best FPS ever made, there are lots of good FPS games with superb storylines that get overshadowed, or EA, when there are much better sports games. So I guess it just depends.

I think that explains itself when it comes to Final Fantasy. Square Enix knows it will sell so they tack together any BS excuse for a plot, and spend, what, two-three years, making the VISUALS, Music/Sounds of the games?

To be technical, the best FPS plot in a game I ever played, is the Prime Saga. Goldeneye has perfect gameplay, along with Perfect Dark, but it's an expected spy/Shooter plot basically.

However, Final fantasy may be running slim stoyline wise and even becoming cliche, but while thier storylines aren't great, their gameplay usually is, there is nothing better then seein that same almighty creature you saw in 2d in 3d, the cinematics just add suspence and emotion to the game istelf, for example war clips get you hyped and ready for action, in 2d, it wouldn't be the same, all you'd see is blocky characters running about frantically, however, gameplay of those old FF games has not diminished in anyway, in fact, since FF7, the series seems to have gotten too futuristic and swayed from its key theme, old age knights, wizards and such, now its all about pretty boy with large sword falls in love with innocent looking girl. Bit pathetic, but hay, people like it, and it sells, so why the hell not.

It isn't hard to make Turn-based gameplay work well, considering so many RPGs started off with it. What actually took thought as far as I'm concerned was making Tales Of Phantasia, since it was the first RPG to stray away from the turn-based gameplay.

Hell, look at Mario RPG, that's turn-based gameplay also, Paper Mario 64, and Thousand-Year Door modified the gameplay, entirely.

The classic turn-based gameplay of the original 6 didn't die because they were remade on the PSX/GBA, 3 on the DS recently.

Of course it sells, hell any slop could actually sell, just because it sells though doesn't make it right to make, in terms of originality.

The music industry is a fine example, look at Britney Spears, 50 Cent, Beyonce, Ciara. Britney started off huge, and then became tedious as hell with her music, and then itunes, and bootlegging became such a huge thing and now no one can even sell a million copies because usually only the singles off the album sound unique. Beyonce sold 11 million off her debut solo album, that's worldwide, so obviously the US contributed to it, and she's lucky she went platinum in a month.

So of course I argue with what Square Enix does, because I see the broad view that it's the same bs with pretty graphics. I played 7-11, so I can safely admit to hating 7 & 10 because the plots sucked to me, and it sold because of pretty graphics. I also know from most people who play the series, that NONE of them like both 8 & 9 along with 7 & 10.

I also know a few who have yet to play 1-6 BECAUSE of the graphics, they even turned down 3 because it's on the DS, not the consoles.


Most devs in our modern world realise that most gamers today don't care much for a good storyline or certain aspects of gameplay like they were in the past, its like hollywood movies, anything to make money goes, Resistance, recent FF games and Halo, even Gears of wars are all examples, good games as they are, they lack in depth storylines, they lack emotion, they lack depth in general, but it does not stop Halo even with its rather bland storyline being the best selling FPS, or GOW also being one of the best for its pretty graphics, or FF games being the best selling RPG games despite its pretty graphics and nothing much else other then a new gameplay style and new characters.

These games today though, if they are going to strive off pretty graphics, then the gameplay should be just as incredible as far as I'm concerned, like back when Nintendo and SNES were out and new.

I'm curious, aside from the PSX Anthology releases, did any of them EVER sell tons of copies BEFORE FF7 came out? No, I really doubt it. A game goes Greatest Hits/Platinum/Player's Choice for a million copies sold/half a million in one territory.

If game devs or movie producers make money on something, why spend more time then they need to thinking of storylines or the gamer's emotion?

Not all sci-fi movies are good though, Star Wars was an exception, Lucas actually had a decent plot written overall.

Silent Hill 2 is easily more emotional then 7, Aeris bothered me before she died, so her death didn't bother me, and the game play damage system bothered the hell out of me. I did enjoy 8 a lot, it was quite good, though I was far more moved by the result of Silent Hill 2.


See, we both have long replies now.

Final Fantasy kept the same combat system since the first one just made it more useless to use anything. They finally changed it with XI and XII but still you play Final Fantasy I and then 7-9 the battle system is basically the same. Nothing special about it.

1-6 were the same turn-based, 9 was the 10th year anniversary game, so of course it was the same.

7, and 8 changed the gameplay drastically, and 10 made it a lot more different by breaking the 9,999 limit in attacks, health, and magic.


I'm just saying that if I wanted to watch a movie I could spend $30-40 less to do so rather then wasting $50-60 on a video game when I could be playing something else that focuses on gameplay rather then trying to have the best graphics. Graphics are a nice thing to have been a game can have the best graphics ever and it can still suck.

Thank you, The Matrix is an example of this, or Equilibrium.

Originally posted by Pulse2
Darnit! Why does something I spent a few moments typing always have to look like the bloody bible! Sorry people, I never know how much I have typed until I look afterwards, I type so fast it doesn't occur to me.

Anyway, you get the drift of what I said, so I'll be off, for a while. Ok ok. Enough bragging. You type fast. Want a cookie?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Final Fantasy kept the same combat system since the first one just made it more useless to use anything. They finally changed it with XI and XII but still you play Final Fantasy I and then 7-9 the battle system is basically the same. Nothing special about it. Square-enix is capable of making better battle systems (Chrono series) and yet for some reason they kept Final Fantasy the same for the longest time. They just extended the game and filled it with flashy graphics and cutscenes.

Other RPGs are actually making the battle system more unique and enjoyable. Like the Tales series or Dragon Quest. They at least work to make a more enjoyable gaming experience then just throwing in flashy graphics and giving all the games the same battle system.

XI changed because it's an MMO RPG but compared to World of Warcraft it isn't much better. Most MMO RPGs keep the same basic concept: fecth quests. You know you always have to go to a mine, forest, or someplace far away to find a certain item and bring it back. It gets old really fast.

XII improved over X a lot. But the main character (A) looks like a girl and (B) hardly does anything in the game. XII is basically Star Wars just thrown into a Final Fantasy game which seems rather cheap. So many RPGs deserve the credit that Final Fantasy has but because they don't throw in hour after hour of cutscenes they don't. Playing a latter Final Fantasy game is like watching a movie and just pushing a button here and there to advance to the next scene.

I'm just saying that if I wanted to watch a movie I could spend $30-40 less to do so rather then wasting $50-60 on a video game when I could be playing something else that focuses on gameplay rather then trying to have the best graphics. Graphics are a nice thing to have been a game can have the best graphics ever and it can still suck.

Have you not noticed the many other male characters in the Final Fantasy Games that look female and many other games at that?



Originally posted by JToTheP
There are other RPGs out there, and yes they don't get much recognition, but hey, thats the way of gaming isn't it, the rishest and most well known companies or games are always the best in a normal gamers eyes, its like Halo, it isn't the best FPS ever made, there are lots of good FPS games with superb storylines that get overshadowed, or EA, when there are much better sports games. So I guess it just depends.

I think that explains itself when it comes to Final Fantasy. Square Enix knows it will sell so they tack together any BS excuse for a plot, and spend, what, two-three years, making the VISUALS, Music/Sounds of the games?

To be technical, the best FPS plot in a game I ever played, is the Prime Saga. Goldeneye has perfect gameplay, along with Perfect Dark, but it's an expected spy/Shooter plot basically.

However, Final fantasy may be running slim stoyline wise and even becoming cliche, but while thier storylines aren't great, their gameplay usually is, there is nothing better then seein that same almighty creature you saw in 2d in 3d, the cinematics just add suspence and emotion to the game istelf, for example war clips get you hyped and ready for action, in 2d, it wouldn't be the same, all you'd see is blocky characters running about frantically, however, gameplay of those old FF games has not diminished in anyway, in fact, since FF7, the series seems to have gotten too futuristic and swayed from its key theme, old age knights, wizards and such, now its all about pretty boy with large sword falls in love with innocent looking girl. Bit pathetic, but hay, people like it, and it sells, so why the hell not.

It isn't hard to make Turn-based gameplay work well, considering so many RPGs started off with it. What actually took thought as far as I'm concerned was making Tales Of Phantasia, since it was the first RPG to stray away from the turn-based gameplay.

Hell, look at Mario RPG, that's turn-based gameplay also, Paper Mario 64, and Thousand-Year Door modified the gameplay, entirely.

The classic turn-based gameplay of the original 6 didn't die because they were remade on the PSX/GBA, 3 on the DS recently.

Of course it sells, hell any slop could actually sell, just because it sells though doesn't make it right to make, in terms of originality.

The music industry is a fine example, look at Britney Spears, 50 Cent, Beyonce, Ciara. Britney started off huge, and then became tedious as hell with her music, and then itunes, and bootlegging became such a huge thing and now no one can even sell a million copies because usually only the singles off the album sound unique. Beyonce sold 11 million off her debut solo album, that's worldwide, so obviously the US contributed to it, and she's lucky she went platinum in a month.

So of course I argue with what Square Enix does, because I see the broad view that it's the same bs with pretty graphics. I played 7-11, so I can safely admit to hating 7 & 10 because the plots sucked to me, and it sold because of pretty graphics. I also know from most people who play the series, that NONE of them like both 8 & 9 along with 7 & 10.

I also know a few who have yet to play 1-6 BECAUSE of the graphics, they even turned down 3 because it's on the DS, not the consoles.


Most devs in our modern world realise that most gamers today don't care much for a good storyline or certain aspects of gameplay like they were in the past, its like hollywood movies, anything to make money goes, Resistance, recent FF games and Halo, even Gears of wars are all examples, good games as they are, they lack in depth storylines, they lack emotion, they lack depth in general, but it does not stop Halo even with its rather bland storyline being the best selling FPS, or GOW also being one of the best for its pretty graphics, or FF games being the best selling RPG games despite its pretty graphics and nothing much else other then a new gameplay style and new characters.

These games today though, if they are going to strive off pretty graphics, then the gameplay should be just as incredible as far as I'm concerned, like back when Nintendo and SNES were out and new.

I'm curious, aside from the PSX Anthology releases, did any of them EVER sell tons of copies BEFORE FF7 came out? No, I really doubt it. A game goes Greatest Hits/Platinum/Player's Choice for a million copies sold/half a million in one territory.

If game devs or movie producers make money on something, why spend more time then they need to thinking of storylines or the gamer's emotion?

Not all sci-fi movies are good though, Star Wars was an exception, Lucas actually had a decent plot written overall.

Silent Hill 2 is easily more emotional then 7, Aeris bothered me before she died, so her death didn't bother me, and the game play damage system bothered the hell out of me. I did enjoy 8 a lot, it was quite good, though I was far more moved by the result of Silent Hill 2.


See, we both have long replies now. You should really learn how to quote b/c that's a huge pile of mess that I will just not drudge through.

I guess I just had to let some stuff out. Sorry that you all just happened to be randomly selected to be on the other end of my venting. I mean no offense as usually..............................yeah.......... closedeyes

Merry Christmas Everybody!! doped

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by InnerRise




You should really learn how to quote b/c that's a huge pile of mess that I will just not drudge through.

I guess I just had to let some stuff out. Sorry that you all just happened to be randomly selected to be on the other end of my venting. I mean no offense as usually..............................yeah..........

Merry Christmas Everybody!! doped
anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

That's why I didn't directly quote it, so I could answer by paragraph.

I was just making a point that kids today are spoiled by graphics, I've never had a problem with you Rise.

Graphics have taken over gameplay, but what the heck can we few people that happen to appreciate great storylines, depth and gameplay do about it, nothing but deal with it, until you can get every gamer to refuse to stop buying FPS, RPG, Fighters or any game genre that has a sucky plot, then we have nothing else but to deal with it. Gears of war has great graphics and superb gameplay, the storyline is what I just don't like, but thats not going to stop every Tom, dick and harry including me buying it, at the end of the day, its just a game, its not a novel or a movie that needs to be good, its just a game, and in the game industry, storylines don't make money, fancy graphics and gameplay do, it can be as brain numming as shooting the same aliens all day and people will enjoy it, have the same kinds of girly looking boys falling in love, people will still buy, have 2000 war based games with changed enemies and still a crap storyline, as long as Tom bought it and Sony, or Microsoft or Nintendo think its a cool game, we will buy it.

Its a harsh world business, and we as customers think we have a say but we really don't, just have to deal with it as it comes, until one of you has the ability to become a game developer and topple FF with its flashy graphics and cliche storyplots, then all we can do is moan about it on this forum, or just buythe game and deal with it.

Well, Action shooters like Gears have never really been known for their storytelling or storyline. Gears actually has a really solid storyline, you just have to really make an effort to seek it out. Most of it is told outside the game, in the manual and even moreso in the strategy guide. If you look online you'll see even more as well. The storytelling in the game was really weak, it was my major complaint. After seeing how solid the story and the setting really is, it seemed like a huge wasted opportunity not to include more plot devices and character development, woulda been really nice, but the gameplay is so fun that it's really a small complaint.

I think most shooters have a rather bland storyline leaving a gamer who hungers depth empty handed, Halo has a storyline as well, but somehow I get the feeling it was all chucked together as they carried on with sequels, Halo 1 for example explained little or nothing, Halo 2 only explained a bit more due to the fact the books etc helped it tell the story, but only the Halo nerds actually sat, read and enjoyed it, I thought the books were badly written, and didn't much enjoy them at all, but then I'm a writer, I also want to be a movie producer, so I can tell the difference between something with a superb plot and something that is just there for the sake of it, and something that is just "crap".

FF7 was a good game, both gameplay, graphics and plot wise, and so was 8, although there were parts of 8 that left me rather baffled until I later understood them. After 8 only the most rabid of FF fanboys didn't realise that the plots were bcoming rather cliche and the games lacking spice, 9 was like the talk of the town, but yet it wasn't really all that exciting to play, and 10 was just plain embarrasing, thats where I stopped playing FF games, I have yet to try 12, I haven't bought any of the spinoffs cos I can't see thier purpose, the only reason I want the PSP version is well, because its on PSP, and Advent children was pretty good, however, I think Square realises that 7 put them where they are today, so they try to overkill it with needless sequels and spinoffs.

I have played quite a few games recently, even new gen ones, and when it comes to storyline wise, they usually fail miserably, not that raters, analysts, buyers or devs care that much, at the end of the day, the more Aliens, blood, graphics, fancy features, cgi clips, cool characters in outfits that say cool things and all the rest of that nonsense the game has, the better, and when you have millions of fans like Halo or GOW or FF or Mario has, why waste time thinking of storylines?

Originally posted by Pulse2


FF7 was a good game, both gameplay, graphics and plot wise, and so was 8, although there were parts of 8 that left me rather baffled until I later understood them. After 8 only the most rabid of FF fanboys didn't realise that the plots were bcoming rather cliche and the games lacking spice, 9 was like the talk of the town, but yet it wasn't really all that exciting to play,

See, no, 7 was not that revolutionary aside from graphics, any turn-based RPG has that style of gameplay.

8 was just made because Squaresoft had to make one last game before they merged with SquareEnix. 8 I happen to actually like though with how 7 was blown out of proportion.

9 was the 10th.Anniversary.To.The.Series. so it wasn't about being the "talk of the town" it was about 10 years of success, the overrated trash that was 7, the original 6 that started it, and the underrated 8.

And the movie producers have the same mentality, the fastest way to cash, is the way they'll take, out of 30 films that come out in the cinema, we see 1 or maybe 2, reason, the rest are not worth the money. Or you could simply use a download software to download free of charge. Now, if we had films out like LOTR, star wars and matrix 1 out all the time, we'd be spoilt for choice.

With most of these games though, the likes of online gaming takes away the reason to even bother putting in a storyline, if Tom can play with Harry on XBL, everything will be okay. No need to worry about plots.

Originally posted by Pulse2
And the movie producers have the same mentality, the fastest way to cash, is the way they'll take, out of 30 films that come out in the cinema, we see 1 or maybe 2, reason, the rest are not worth the money. Or you could simply use a download software to download free of charge. Now, if we had films out like LOTR, star wars and matrix 1 out all the time, we'd be spoilt for choice.

With most of these games though, the likes of online gaming takes away the reason to even bother putting in a storyline, if Tom can play with Harry on XBL, everything will be okay. No need to worry about plots.

Harry Potter, Star Wars, and LOTR are all unique to eachother though, so those aren't to be argued as repetitive trash like Final Fantasy.

Well, if you notice that any game with online multiplayer has a short/bad single-player campaign, with a few exceptions like Subsistance.

Originally posted by JToTheP
See, no, 7 was not that revolutionary aside from graphics, any turn-based RPG has that style of gameplay.

8 was just made because Squaresoft had to make one last game before they merged with SquareEnix. 8 I happen to actually like though with how 7 was blown out of proportion.

9 was the 10th.Anniversary.To.The.Series. so it wasn't about being the "talk of the town" it was about 10 years of success, the overrated trash that was 7, the original 6 that started it, and the underrated 8. Despite what may feel about 7, it is talked about even today, as it was not only the game that refreshed a slowly dying Square, but also started a new generation on a new console being PS1. Hardly anyone expect hardcore gamers knew much about FF at the time 6 was out, since 7 and up, even non gamers have a vague idea of what FF is.

FF8 was underated, and I long for a sequel, but due to the way it ended, that seems next to impossible now. And I don't want them doing stupid spinoffs with other characters you spot while playing 8 or a prologue of before 8 began, nor do I want a 100 year gap between 8 and 8-2 when Riona was pregnant (coincidence) and had a boy and a girl who will go on to fight the forces of evil and become seeds, so I'd rather they just left it alone or make a remake of it.

I never want to see FF10 or 9 again.

Originally posted by Pulse2
Despite what may feel about 7, it is talked about even today, as it was not only the game that refreshed a slowly dying Square, but also started a new generation on a new console being PS1. Hardly anyone expect hardcore gamers knew much about FF at the time 6 was out, since 7 and up, even non gamers have a vague idea of what FF is.

FF8 was underated, and I long for a sequel, but due to the way it ended, that seems next to impossible now. And I don't want them doing stupid spinoffs with other characters you spot while playing 8 or a prologue of before 8 began, nor do I want a 100 year gap between 8 and 8-2 when Riona was pregnant (coincidence) and had a boy and a girl who will go on to fight the forces of evil and become seeds, so I'd rather they just left it alone or make a remake of it.

I never want to see FF10 or 9 again.

That is a reason why RPGs are doomed, 7 is still brought up when it should of been killed. I love Advent Children, but I hate 7. Star Ocean 3 is the only SquareEnix product I've enjoyed lately, next to FF3, which is a CLASSIC so it isn't PLAGUED like any FF after 7.

It is sad that anyone who doesn't even play FF know about it because of how overrated 7 is, horribly.

8 will never get a remake, because it is the OPPOSITE of 7. OH NO, SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, TIME TO HATE IT!

BF I know hates 8, along with other users here. I'm the only one I know of who likes 8 & 9, and everytime I talk about 9, I bring up the argument that it is the 10th anniversary game so it SHOULD be like the classic formula, which then 7 comes up. I call it overrated trash and get fed a bunch of bullshit about the game play and plot. I say that any classic RPG has turn-based game play, but yet 7 is still "UNIQUE AND AMAZING."

I just don't understand how you could hate 9, if you loooove 7 so badly, and 9 is a series tribute.

I just despise 9, 8 is where I started to be honest, then I played 7, then 9 came out, after playing 8 and 7, the release of 9 did little or nothing to quench my thirst for another interesting RPG, it was okay, but not spectacular, then I played 6 on PC, was good, but soon realised why it had not been recognised as much, after playing 1 and 2 the originals, 3, 4 and 5 I didn't play until after playing 10 which was a disgrace, during the period of playing 5, 10-2 came out which was an insult to FF and RPG fans, I never got to play FF11 or 12 except a demo of 12 in America during a holiday over a year ago.

Sounds like you just don't like the vintage style FF games, which would explain your distain for 9, since it basically was a vintage FF game with pretty graphics.

Originally posted by BackFire
Sounds like you just don't like the vintage style FF games, which would explain your distain for 9, since it basically was a vintage FF game with pretty graphics. Vintage? Wtf? 9 was just a little boy cat creature with daggers, who fell in love with a girl who eventually can't speak, I played it and didn't enjoy it, it doesn't mean I don't like vintage, it just means I don't like 9, I like 1,2,3 and 4 5 and 6 were okay, not bad, but prefered the first four.

Its nothing to do with vintage, I just didn't like 9, end of story.

The whole style of 9 was directly old school, in fact the game was advertised as a return to the old roots of the series, having a more fantasy light hearted setting, like the older ones, and having cute silly looking characters, like the older ones and having simplified combat and character building system, and even having the crystals, which were a central theme for all FF games unil 6.

I liked the older ones, just didn't like 9.

Originally posted by JToTheP
I'm the only one I know of who likes 8 & 9, and everytime I talk about 9, I bring up the argument that it is the 10th anniversary game so it SHOULD be like the classic formula, which then 7 comes up.
IX was the best IMO.

Originally posted by Pulse2
I liked the older ones, just didn't like 9.

Fair enough, dude.

Was it just the story about 9 you disliked? Or was the gameplay a problem for you as well, because a lot of people thought the gameplay was too slow, especially after they got used to the speed of the newer games.

Originally posted by BackFire
Fair enough, dude.

Was it just the story about 9 you disliked? Or was the gameplay a problem for you as well, because a lot of people thought the gameplay was too slow, especially after they got used to the speed of the newer games. I guess it was a combination of different things, the storyline wasn't too bad, but after playing 7 and 8 I just couldn't adjust to the flow of 9, the plot was fine though, characters I couldn't seem to take a liking to though, I think it is because previous FF games I had played before it had characters with strong personalities, so its easier to see it through thier eyes, something about the atmosphere in 9 I didn't like either, FF6, 7 and 8 had really lighty and cheerful atmospheres, playing 9 always made me bored rather quickly, not only that, kind of depressed. I didn't much mine zizi or what ever his name was again the little mage, he was quite cool, but the other characters I didn't much like at all, including Zidane.

However saying that, Alexander was the best Alexander I have seen in FF games, a whole castle, that was kinda awesome, but the Brahamut kinda sucked. The twins were wierd, I couldn't really see thier purpose except to divert the plot onto sub plots.
There were some good points about the game, but overall, I can't really say that playing 9 was an experience I will never forget, because it wasn't. It wasn't a bad game at all, and the fact that many FF fans and people I knew liked it says something, but I just didn't enjoy the experience. There were a few moments, but not enough to make me not want to put down the controller to find out more of the story.

I like Cutscenes, and i think Kingdom Hearts did towards the end. I loved it though.

Originally posted by Souichiro Nagi
I like Cutscenes, and i think Kingdom Hearts did towards the end. I loved it though. It had an opening cutscene as well as an ending cutscene with The Fabulous Utada Hikaru singing the Amazing Theme Song, "Sanctuary/Passion" in 2 different versions, for the beginning and end.

yes

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Yeah! "My Sanctuary my sanctuary now."

Originally posted by Souichiro Nagi
Yeah! "My Sanctuary my sanctuary now." Oh My.

Practice Practice Practice.

It makes perfect. doped

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

I don't actually mind cutscenes in certain games, in RPGs I can stand them, in shoot em ups its pointless and annoys me

Originally posted by Pulse2
I don't actually mind cutscenes in certain games, in RPGs I can stand them, in shoot em ups its pointless and annoys me

How is it pointless, to show the opening/ending of a mission/adventure/whatever, the same way as RPGs tell more of the story in-depth visually?

Originally posted by JToTheP
How is it pointless, to show the opening/ending of a mission/adventure/whatever, the same way as RPGs tell more of the story in-depth visually? FPS games never have love in them or any kind of relationships between other people, or maybe its just the FPS games I've played, so why they need cutscenes to show me something I could see while playing the game normally is beyond me. I don't mind Beginning and end short cutscenes, sorta like Halo as MC jumps off a ship into the middle of a battle field, but thats about it, anything else during gameplay is annoying and rarely contributes to the FPS. At least with RPGs during the cutscenes a part of the characters history, life, current feelings towards someone etc are portryed, I can understand the need for that. Also it may be the key to understanding a part of the plot, but seeing as most FPS games are either shoot to kill like Halo or Unreal or simple tactic shoot em ups like Ghost reacon or Counter Strike, there is no real requirement for cutscenes unless it is short begging and end of game and level cutscenes.

Dirge of Cerberus has a whole lot

I know that mgs has a lot final fantisy 8 has a good one and legend of dragoon has some in it.

Originally posted by Pulse2
FPS games never have love in them or any kind of relationships between other people, or maybe its just the FPS games I've played, so why they need cutscenes to show me something I could see while playing the game normally is beyond me. I don't mind Beginning and end short cutscenes, sorta like Halo as MC jumps off a ship into the middle of a battle field, but thats about it, anything else during gameplay is annoying and rarely contributes to the FPS. At least with RPGs during the cutscenes a part of the characters history, life, current feelings towards someone etc are portryed, I can understand the need for that. Also it may be the key to understanding a part of the plot, but seeing as most FPS games are either shoot to kill like Halo or Unreal or simple tactic shoot em ups like Ghost reacon or Counter Strike, there is no real requirement for cutscenes unless it is short begging and end of game and level cutscenes.

And what about Metroid Prime? The small cut-scenes show you where to head next, a door opening, an item available, and so forth.

Originally posted by JToTheP
And what about Metroid Prime? The small cut-scenes show you where to head next, a door opening, an item available, and so forth. Yeah, but they are like 5 second clips revealing something, not long mid game clips like FF showing Samus falling in love or looking into her history. You can barely compare that to "proper" cut scenes, these small ones can usually be skipped anyway. Some FF ones you can't.