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Okay, I watched DMC for the second time last night so things are fresh in my mind and I thought we could talk. There's some stuff going on, some fun and wacky stuff that I don't think we discussed. This is also going to be "evidence/facts" of what might happen in the next one.

1. The hat theory: this is the Tortuga scene where Norrington first appears and wants to join the crew before starting a massive riot. Many people think Jack's exit in this scene, the switching of the hats, is meant to symbolize a void in his life, one that Liz fills because she wears hat nearly identical to his. Let's expand on that. Look at her costume. It's modeled closely after Jack's, and her skin is darkening the longer the movie progresses. If you watch the scene on the stairs when he proposes, keep an eye on their costumes to see how similar they are.
COUNTER: Like the classic white-hat cowboys and Indiana Jones, a hero's accessories help define him. Jack loses his hat early on, but is so frightened by the kracken, he abandons it and finds it later when the kracken spits it out. The switching of the hats could simply mean that no other hat will do for Jack. That's not as deep, but not every line/scene/gesture has to be about Liz.
RULING: I don't think this theory is strong enough evidence to use.

2. "Vexed." To understand this, we have to get to the scene before, when Jack is alone with his charts. This is the scene that pops up on the dvd menu, so it is more important than meets the eye. There is no doubt in my mind Jack is thinking of Liz in this scene, so she could be vexing him. He's obviously working when he sees the compass all of a sudden switch directions which frustrates him and he goes to get more rum. Shortly after, he is told the kracken will be after him and he loses his hat and all the crew members think he's going pyscho, etc. Gibbs says something is vexing Jack and will ultimately be a bad thing for all of them. Many people are saying the main thing that is vexing Jack is Liz.
COUNTER: He's just been told Davy Jones, most feared creature to pirates, is coming to claim him and will send the kracken to get him. He's so scared he leaves his hat and says they need to get to land, any land.
RULING: Jack is definitely thinking of Liz before he goes and gets the rum. He's alone, probably frustrated with his work, and then the compass changes. Why would the compass suddenly change? But is he thinking of her enough for Gibbs to notice something is vexing him?


3. Will's references to Liz. The first is when Will has just been captured by the tribe and he tells Jack Liz is in danger. Jack stops dead in his tracks and you can see the wheels turning and he ends the conversation by telling Will to save him. Later on the ship, Will finally persuades Jack to help if he will help Jack. Doesn't Will get dragged around a lot?
COUNTER: Meh, I don't really have one. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Will and Jack don't like each other so it must be Liz that makes them get together.
RULING: I think Jack is helping Will largely (if not totally) for Liz.

4. Tia Dalma's hut. Here is a huge one. Jack is rendered speechless when Tia asks why the compass won't tell him where the key is. She then laughs, "Jack Sparrow don't know what he wants. Or maybe he do but loathe to claim it for his own." Even people not looking for clues wondered if Jack might meet a girl after that line. Tia passionately tells the story of Davy Jones.
COUNTER: I have one counter, and that's when Jack is the one to correctly answer a woman vexes a man. Notice Will doesn't say anything. He's there to learn. Notice also Jack only answers when the other answers are shot down. Now, I'm not in love with a woman, but I guessed a woman. Plus, Jack's probably heard the story before. But Tia's usually spot-on and if she says Jack's in conflict about something, he is.

5. Deleted scene. Watch the creation of Davy Jones. Of course it's really interesting on its own, but there is a clip of him playing smoking a pipe saying "it can only be a woman." It is unclear when he says this, but there is evidence that it could be geared towards Jack.
COUNTER: It could also be geared towards Will.

6. The compass. The compass points to Jack at least twice when Liz holds it and it is suggestive that it points to Liz when Jack uses it. The following are all the times in DMC when the compass is used.
a. Jack has to find a heading for the crew but the arrow is going in a circle. This can stay in because it shows Jack is in conflict about what he wants.
b. The compass spins while Jack is working, clearly frustrating him. This can also stay in because people often think a little freer when they're alone rather than with people.
c. Jack places the compass in Liz's hands and she gets a heading of where the chest is. It points straight ahead of her (where Jack WAS) but then he appears next to her. This can be ruled out because it could easily be showing where the chest is.
d. Liz pulls it out to test it and it points to Jack. This can also be ruled out because he could just be in the way. But the power of suggestion says a lot in this scene.
e. Liz uses the compass to find the chest but it points to Jack. This is huge because it should point right back to herself because she's on top of the chest. It stays in.
f. Jack comes to see what the trouble is when she says it doesn't work. It points back to her, but we find out she was on top of the treasure. This can be ruled out.

Sorry for the length! I'm hoping a lot of people have comments to make.

My ruling on the compass is that it really can't be used as evidence of anything since it either errors or is too unclear. I think the power of suggestion is more powerful evidence working indirectly through the compass.

7. The actual scenes with Liz. These by default are the strongest evidence that something is going on between them. Without the first movie, they have three big scenes together and a few other ones.
a. Persuade Me.
b. Curiosity
c. The kiss

Smaller scenes: the compass, Isla de Cruces, the fight/escape from Isla de Cruces, and the kracken battle. We've analyzed these scenes to death, no point of doing it again. I just wanted to point out one thing and it's when Will is knocked out by Jack and falls into the longboat. Jack and Liz are clearly backed into the boat and Liz looks down at Will. Jack says something to the effect of, "Unless you're going to use him to hit someone, leave him there." I think this is a little symbolic, so humor me.
Throughout the whole movie, there are two separate adventures that eventually blend into one: getting the key to the chest and getting the chest itself. Jack and Liz go after the chest. This is their adventure and while neither of them have gotten on the Flying Dutchman, Will doesn't really belong in theirs. This is their first fight side by side and it's telling Will isn't there.

So what does everyone think?

Interesting post.


1. The Hat Theory. I never bought into this one, because Elizabeth's costume is to help make her look like a guy, and most of the men's outfits in that time period look like her outfit.


As for the hat, well, most hats looked similar to each other. So I agree with you there.


2. Vexed. I think that Jack is indeed vexed by his thoughts of Elizabeth, but I would have to say another part of the problem is going to be Davy Jones and the debt Jack has to pay. He knows time is running out, and when he realizes he is really out of time, he panics. I think any thoughts of Elizabeth trot on out of his head at that time.


But yes, Jack is vexed by Elizabeth. Does it mean it's love or that they are destined to be together? Nope.


3. When Will mentions Elizabeth to Jack, yes, Jack pauses, but I think that brilliant, mad mind is working over-time to try to see how he can use Will to his best advantage.


First he needs Will to save him from the Pelegastos, and then he needs Will to go get him the key. The thought of Elizabeth may have played a teeny tiny role in that, but mostly those gears turning was all about Jack trying to save himself.


4. I think Tia Dalma's hut is too vague to use as evidence for or against either ship, mainly because the purpose of the scene is to draw attention to the parallels between Davy Jones and Will.


5. I haven't seen the bit with Davy Jones, but I believe the line is to Will, and Will replies, "A woman need not cause you to be desperate if you find the right one." Or something like that.


6. The compass can't be used at all, I think, because what the writers intended and what actually showed up in the movie don't match very well.


7. Of course there is something going on between Jack and Elizabeth. But what that something is, however, is what is debateable.


As far as the scene with Will unconscious while Jack and Elizabeth are backing up to the boat...you'll notice that Jack and Elizabeth aren't even fighting even more, but they are retreating.


Actually, the person who goes to help Liz the most is Norrington. Both Jack and Will are busy elsewhere.


And don't forget that Will was unconscious thanks to Jack. How do you think Elizabeth would have reacted if she discovered that Jack had injured Will on purpose? Or maybe she did know, or guessed, and that played a part in why she killed Jack?

good thoughts

lots of good stuff.

i think the majority of the "evidence" is far too flimsy to rest on for absolute proof of either ship. They did an excellent job of making everything more ambiguous than gay knights.

1. hat theory. they spent a good 6 minutes on Jack trading his hat around. thats a lot of minutes to spend on a gag, which makes me think there was some ulterior symbolism to the scene. I dont know if it has to do so much with Elizabeth as just clarifying Jack's character as dissatisfied, empty, searching for something he has lost to fate earlier on. Whatever he's looking for, he's going to get it, but at what cost?

2. vexed. the writers have been very clear that Jack is vexed by elizabeth and that's just the way it is. From his exit in cotbp to his entrance and subsequent screentime in dmc, Jack is obsessing about her to the point that he can't think straight to save his own life.

3. agree with Willo.

4. there's stuff going on with Tia we just don't know about yet. Tia knows about (and perhaps has accidentally exaggerated) the connection between Jack and Elizabeth, and is clearly determined to use it for her advantage. As the compass is largely used for suggestion in dmc, and not absolutives, Tia's stuff seems to follow that vein. What she says to Jack, whether or not its true, confirms Jack's fears and gets him off thinking about certain things all the more. Tia is very obvious about playng up the story of Davy Jones, directing it at Will (especially the heart stabbing bits) and all that. And she's manipulating Jack towards a desperate end as well. My theory is that since her goal is to be free and Calypso again, she made a deal with Jack years ago (sort of a get-out-of-jail, if you will) centering around Jack using his influence to get her freed. But to cash in on that deal she has to do some huge service for Jack like bringing him back from the locker. But Tia is clearly on board with dethroning Davy Jones and putting up a new captain of the FD.

5. lots of extra lines from the script on wordplayer, dealing with that. don't know what it means, but i'm sorry it was cut. would have liked to see it.

6. damn the compass to hell.

7. like we all keep saying, there's a reason Jack and Elizabeth together get far more screentime than Will and Elizabeth.

more later. need coffee.

lol #6

Yeah, while the compass is interesting, it's at least fun to go back and watch the first movie, especially when Jack and Will are gaining on the Black Pearl. Jack looks like a crazy man looking at his compass during a storm and you can tell Will's seriously rethinking his decision to break the guy out of jail, but knowing what we know now, it's a determined, logical man just following where it says to go. We know at that point he wants the Pearl more than anything, so there is no doubt where it's pointing there.
I'm completely confused by T&T's views on the compass. They wrote in a line to explain to everyone in the audience why the compass is so special. "It shows you what you want most in this world." There. That shouldn't be hard, that shouldn't be vague in any way. If it points to something, you want it, and you want it more than anything else. But what ends up happening? EVERYONE is confused by it. I think T&T are great, but they're really messing up when they can't agree on key things like how the hell the compass works.
So we have to throw it out. Now imagine the movie without the compass. What evidence do we have now?

The confusion comes from the way the editors and director made the compass work. The original script calls for the compass to waver briefly and turn toward Jack a bit, but Elizabeth snaps it closed before it points totally to Jack.


So what we would have seen in the movie, if the script had been followed, was that the compass wavered a bit, but we wouldn't know if it pointed to Jack or if it would have gone back to pointing at the chest.


Same with the island scene. Elizabeth was supposed to have sort of walked in a triangle before she sulked, which means that the compass pointed at the chest the whole time, she just didn't understand how to read it.


Also, a huge part of the confusion was that for a while, before TnT corrected it, there were a few misquotes about the compass and how it works, such as pointing to what your heart truly desires, instead of what you want most...Want is a less specific term than desire.


Want is more temporary, I think. Hence the waffle and delicious feast comment.

But I guess I just see it as semantics. To me there's no difference between "heart's desire" and "what you want most in this world." That's a pretty specific want.

IMO want and desire are in other words the same thing. We might desire or want something that we might not have the opportunity to posses.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wants

yeah im with willo. what you want most in the world changes, but so does your "heart's desire" or whatever you want to say. Why is one better than the other? very few people love only once their whole life. (sorry, Marianne).

Elizabeth's heart's desire or what she wants most changes a lot. so she's young. she hasnt seen everything, doesn't know exactly what she wants. what's wrong with that? i'm fine with her being confused. so sometimes she wants Jack, sometimes she wants Will, sometimes it would probably point to her father and port royal or something. the point is, she isn't dead clear what she wants most. there's no way to say its will, jack, or anyone else for sure.

whether you eat a waffle or a delicious feast, your body will process it, get rid of it, and you'll be hungry again in a few hours. like i keep saying, why is a feast better than a waffle? i just don't understand the logic there.

I actually really like the Hat Theory....i agree with KATE....they refrenced his hat too much for it to just be nothing....it means more i think!

I like to think that Jack's hat symbolizes his CONFIDENCE in a way!

In the begining Jack looses his hat b/c the monkey throws it over board and as we remember Jack in P1 would do anything to get back his HAT...it was very important to him....it's part of his image, part of his confidence, part of who he is! So for him to say leave it....he must really be on ALERT! SCARED!

When Jack looses his hat we see him go in a hectic frenzy, paniky, and doesnt seem to know what to do!

Then we see Jack looking for hats in Tortuga....trying on different ones! I see that as him searching for himself, searching for who he is, but none will do.

Then we see Liz show up with with a hat identical to Jack's and suddenly we see a new Jack, more put together....and this is when we see him interested in her....i see that as also a symbolism that she somehow completes him.....when Liz is around he knows what to do!

Then at the end we see Jack get his HAT back from the Kraken....and when he puts it on....it's like he's ready to face whatever comes his way, he has his confidence again....he says "Ello Beastie" in true Jack form....pulls out his sword and goes down fighting!

thats my opinion....theres more but cant quite seem to remember it!

Originally posted by Mistypirate
IMO want and desire are in other words the same thing. We might desire or want something that we might not have the opportunity to posses.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wants


(GASPS) OMG MISTY UR BACK........AWWWWWW YAYAYAYAYA! Sorry i know this is an interesting convo but just had to shout out my girl MISTY....yay Glad ur back Love!

*faints*

Originally posted by PirateDiva
(GASPS) OMG MISTY UR BACK........AWWWWWW YAYAYAYAYA! Sorry i know this is an interesting convo but just had to shout out my girl MISTY....yay Glad ur back Love!

Thank u I'm glad to, I'm happy to be back.

I just think people pay more attention to the hat than they need to. They can't keep the focus entirely on Liz and Norrington. It needs to be intercut with something, and Jack being Jack is more entertaining and more telling of his character than him just leaving. Jack is materialistic and at times foppish, so what better way to keep things light during this scene than to show him being like that?

I agree with Willo on the hat issue.


However, the writers have made it clear that there is a difference between what 'you heart desires most' and 'what your want most in the world', so regardless of how you want to define it, the writers have chosen to make a difference.


Not only that, but desire is a far stronger word than want. 'Desire' invokes images of longing, yearning, almost needing, whereas 'want' is more of an immediate need or craving.


As far as the comparison between the feast and the waffle, the point is not which is better, but what the writers were implying with the statement.


Basically, Elizabeth is waiting for Will, but while she is seperated from him, she sees Jack as very interesting and appealing. This doesn't mean she no longer wants Will; it just means that her immediate interest was in Jack. This doesn't make her a bad person.


Elizabeth wants Will, but she got a bit side-tracked by Jack. It didn't make her stop wanting Will. That's the point of the comment.


I do think the comparison is telling though. Will is meant to be the delicious meal, and yes, while a waffle is tasty, it isn't as fulfilling as having a complete dinner. For Elizabeth, Jack is interesting and maybe tasted good, but she wants her Will. That's what she's waiting for, that's what she wants.

I also have another thought that i keep bringing up and i feel it means something but i never really get feed back:

I think Will is ultimately going to do something to help save Jack's life here's why:

In the jail scene Gov. Swann tells Will:

"Just because you would risk your life to save Jack's, does not mean he would do the same for you."- interesting because Will isnt doing all this to save Jack, he's doing it to save LIZ...i think it was a subtle plug in IMO!

Then in the Cannibal Island scene when Will was telling Jack that LIZ was facing the gallows, Jack stopped went told the pelegosts to put him away then he turned to Will and said
"SAVE ME"....i just think that is so unlike Jack to say save me.....when he could clearly do it himself....Jack is not the type to wait around and let someone save him.

so i think these lines are there for a reason more than just to be there!

What do u all thinK?

I think that Will is going to stab the heart to save Jack's life. Seriously. I can see that happening in the third film.

I completely agree with you. I don't know if anyone has heard of a speculation that said that Will is going to team up with the bad guys in order to defeat the pirates. It is said that he will realize what he is doing is wrong. And we will help defeat the bad guys at the end.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
I think that Will is going to stab the heart to save Jack's life. Seriously. I can see that happening in the third film.

Thats what I'm thinking, although I can see Jack's dark side come in to play in AWE. IMO he is going to start mirroring DJ not Will. I think the one thats going to try to stab the heart is Jack and Will is going to prevent it from happening.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
I think that Will is going to stab the heart to save Jack's life. Seriously. I can see that happening in the third film. Originally posted by Mistypirate
I completely agree with you. I don't know if anyone has heard of a speculation that said that Will is going to team up with the bad guys in order to defeat the pirates. It is said that he will realize what he is doing is wrong. And we will help defeat the bad guys at the end.

I think the same thing....I really do think Will will do it to help Jack!

Originally posted by Mistypirate
Thats what I'm thinking, although I can see Jack's dark side come in to play in AWE. IMO he is going to start mirroring DJ not Will. I think the one thats going to try to stab the heart is Jack and Will is going to prevent it from happening.

I think so too....thus provong that Jack would do something to help save Will's life, but Will stops him and stabbs the heart himself and right b4 Will dies he tells Jack to take care of Liz....or look after her!

I can see that happening.

I cant

LOL

what? I'm just saying I can't see them killing off Will! what if they kill Liz? I mean it would be perfect! they are both trying to save her and end up killing her!,..... okay bad idea....

I don't think they are going to kill off Will. He is going to be more than alive.
.........................................
Something interesting I notice, when DJ first captures Will, when he has all the sailors lined up. When he steps in front of Will he tells him, "you are neither dead or dying". Could that be significant?

no because all the other sailors are"dead and dying" so I don't think so,..

No, not everyone. One of the sailors agreed to serve DJ remember? So he didn't get killed. Will was the only one that didn't agreed or refused servitude to DJ crew.

yes but I think DJ was speaking plain out and not with any hidden meaning.... remember Jack sold Will's soul to DJ

I don't think Will is going to stop Jack from stabbing the heart. Since the leaked scripts have indicated that the heart will be on the Dutchman, I suspect that somehow Will and Jack and Barbossa end up in a battle with that ship, and the pirates begin to lose...badly.


So then it becomes similar to the second movie, where people are fighting over the heart, only instead of Jack and Will fighting each other, they are simply fighting to get to the heart before someone steals it. Will gets to the heart and stabs it, knowing what will happen to him, but also knowing that there are no other options available to them.


After he stabs the heart, he'll probably flee, because maybe he won't want Elizabeth to see what happened to him (I don't think he'll become a 'fish face'), because he is now doomed to sail forever, and that is not exactly the greatest way to build a relationship.


IF they decide to keep Will immortal.


Otherwise, I think Elizabeth is going to end up dying in the midst of another battle, and this will break the curse on Will. Meanwhile, (spoilers suggest) Norrington, who was mortally wounded while on the Flying Dutchman, will be the new captain, taking Will's place. Then maybe he'll help to bring Elizabeth (and Will) back from the dead.


Pure speculation on my part. But it's fun. Hmmm, we seem to have gotten away from the original intent of this thread.


Um, I still have a hard time envisioning the hat as being anything more than a running gag, mixed in with a bit of symbolism that Jack is not whole without his hat. And no, I don't think Elizabeth's hat is a substitute, especially since he didn't take it.

No, but I thought the "You are neither dead nor dying" line was significant for the supposed "Will's immortality". And not to mention the countless knife throwing in DMC. Meaning that Will is the one thats going to stab the heart.

alittle out there but capable and we technicly are on topic because we are piecing evidence together and it all ties in one way or another!

hey I gotta go so someone PM me to upadate if you have any more theories or what not! I'll be back ASAP though!

Ok Ill talk to you later bye

So we know for sure whoever stabs the heart takes Davy's place? We know that for a fact? The second movie made it sound like without Davy, there wouldn't be a captain and everyone could just go free. If Will's going to stab the heart, I don't think he knows that he could be doomed.

I seriously doubt Liz will die. She's, in a way, the heart of the story. Everyone came together because of her in the first movie, and she's really come into her own by the second movie. It's no longer the trend to kill off the strong woman, and she's the only main woman in the series.

I would honestly rather see her with Will than see her die. Then two people are heartbroken.

I have no idea what's going to happen, but I have my doubts Norrington will make it long enough to get a chance to stab the heart. Once people find out what he did, and they will, there's going to be a lot of people wanting to kill him.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So we know for sure whoever stabs the heart takes Davy's place? We know that for a fact? The second movie made it sound like without Davy, there wouldn't be a captain and everyone could just go free. If Will's going to stab the heart, I don't think he knows that he could be doomed.

I seriously doubt Liz will die. She's, in a way, the heart of the story. Everyone came together because of her in the first movie, and she's really come into her own by the second movie. It's no longer the trend to kill off the strong woman, and she's the only main woman in the series.

I would honestly rather see her with Will than see her die. Then two people are heartbroken.

I have no idea what's going to happen, but I have my doubts Norrington will make it long enough to get a chance to stab the heart. Once people find out what he did, and they will, there's going to be a lot of people wanting to kill him.

I know that for a fact that whoever stabs the heart of Davy will become the next captain of the Flying Dutchman.

just checking. I hadn't heard that until I joined this board.

i like all this speculation.

i agree that Will may stab the heart in order to save Jack. Will's purity as a character is his main plug. somehow, no matter how sketch he gets, i get the feeling he will be fully redeemed. My thought is that he is 25 steps ahead of everyone and when he seems to betray Jack by trading him for the ship to Sao, and later teams up with the EITC, he's actually got a plan figured out, which is to get the heart back. I dont know. I just dont think Will's darker nature is actually going to be a definate betrayal of his honest streak.

I play with the theory of Will still thinking Elizabeth loves Jack and stabbing the heart in order to save Jack from something, at which point Liz or Jack convinces Calypso to intervene.

While I would prefer Norrington to live, i wonder if his death will be what finally breaks Elizabeth and begins to show her what her actions are doing to those around her, thereby forcing her to make up her mind what she wants and fighting for it.

i am quite certain Elizabeth doesnt die and stay dead. They said bittersweet, not horrific and tragic. i really think all 3 main characters are going to live. this isn't phantom here. am i just being overly optimistic?

I agree partially with Kate about Will having a plan. According to the latest leaked script, he seemed to have planned all along to get captured. I suspect that Will, as intelligent as he is, has a full plan on what is going to happen. Of course, the best laid plans can go horribly wrong, so it will be interesting to see what Will does if things don't go the way he wants.


I think Will definitely stabs the heart, and I suspect that after he does so, he'll find a badly injured Norrington in the hold somewhere (unless Davy has already made James part of the crew).


After the curse is broken for Will, Norrington becomes the new captain of the Flying Dutchman. Of course, perhaps if the curse is lifted, there is no Flying Dutchman at all...in which case, Will and Elizabeth end up together, Jack sails off to do his thing, and Norrington returns to Port Royal to be Admiral or governor of Port Royal.


I do believe Norrington's death or near-death will push Liz more towards accepting how her actions have hurt people.


willofthewisp wrote: I have no idea what's going to happen, but I have my doubts Norrington will make it long enough to get a chance to stab the heart. Once people find out what he did, and they will, there's going to be a lot of people wanting to kill him.


Who'd want to kill him? If anything, Jack, Elizabeth and Will would understand his actions, because they've all been guilty of wanting something above the safety of the others. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think any person holds him in any lower regard for what he's done, and the fact that he will probably end up sacrificing his life for Elizabeth's would probably raise him in esteem in their eyes.


I don't believe Elizabeth will stay dead, but I do believe that she dies at some point in the movie.


And er...I have to say, although I don't believe that the rumor of what's in the trailer is entirely true, a weeping Will Turner sounds unbelievably hot.

that's for sure, about the hot weeping will thing. there was also, at one point, a segment where Jack and Elizabeth fell from a high place together, which i thought sounded hot. oh what the heck, the whole 3rd movie is going to be HOT. Yay!

Hmmm. If Elizabeth died, and was brought back, that would be one other huge similarity for my favorite ship to sail on.

Are they really going to kill Norri? Sigh. I know its likely but boy that sucks. He's just such a great character. What will really be the clincher is if they kill off Barbie too. I think that would tip me over into Spidey land.

Who'd want to kill him? I think it would have to be a combination of realizing he stole the heart and joined Beckett and also thinking he had killed Gov Swann or something. who knows. But seeing as we get a moment where they all have betrayed each other, I'm hoping that will be a moment when our heroes stop battling each other, put aside the past, and team up to fight crime.

I dont think they will kill Norrington. I dunno why, I just have this feling. Whats not fair is killing governor swann

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I dont think they will kill Norrington. I dunno why, I just have this feling. Whats not fair is killing governor swann


I know, but he is going to get kill.

*sniff* I dont think its fair.

hmmm I missed a lot ! night!

lala

I don't think they are going to kill Norrington. I think he is nearly going to die...and rumor has it that Norrington is actually going to take over being captain of the Flying Dutchman.


That'd be interesting.

i'd be okay with that. if Tia met him, i bet she would fall for him.

How could you NOT fall for him?

Elizabeth and Norrington have amazing chemistry- when they act together, its amazing. they seem very comfortable with each other. i like it. it doesnt seem as forced as other relationships, ahem.

Norrigton Capt. of the FD?? . We weren't talking about Norrigton dying, we were talking about Mr Swann. Its sad.

Gov. Swann dying is sad, but not tragic for the audience. We don't get to see him much, so we don't get that attached to him.
I do like Norrie in the scenes with Jack and Liz, especially when they make him dig up the chest. Jack's the captain and Liz is a lady....whatever.
Liz and Norrington are very comfortable with each other and I'm just wondering if Norrington is over her or not. He seems to be over her because he's so amused by Jack and Liz's interaction. But on the other hand, he's really beaten down and when he bounces back, he may try again with her.
Why does everyone fall for Liz?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Why does everyone fall for Liz?

omg I've often wondered the same thing myself. whats with all these men loving Elizabeth?

It's just not realistic. She's a unique girl, for sure, but she's not the only beautiful girl out there that happens to be smart and capable. I even think Barbossa started crushing on her a little. Go figure.
But what do you think about Norrington possibly making a more aggressive move towards Liz? I don't necessarily mean aggressive like he'll kidnap her, but more aggressive like be more upfront with her about how he feels.

I can believe that he just seems like the charactor that would do something about it but IMO i think he is starting to become one of her friends er... was until he stole the heart i mean technically they HAVE known each other longer than any of the other charactors

That's very true, akaamber, they have known each other a long time. Norrington's watched Liz grow up and maybe knows her better than the rest. Maybe he knows all about her pirate fetish, lol. Yeah, I'd say he does. That should add to his amusement about Liz and Jack. He doesn't seem all that bitter about losing Liz. He's got front row seats to a really entertaining show starring the girl he's known for years finally showing her true colors.

she's got the THING. that's all i know to say.

plus, she's the only girl out on the ships. so she's getting to spend lots of time with them without other girls around distracting the men.

im all for Norrington making an agressive move. I'm thinking he SHOULD kidnap her, marry her, and steal the pearl while he's at it. Then Will and Jack can team up to get the girl and the pearl back, and all our heroes are together and in happy competition again.

rofl, I don't think of them actually getting together i think he loves he and always will but i think he's turning into a more "big brother" charactor to her

will listen, BUT never misses an oppertunity to point out something she's doing wrong

Sailorleo would hate that, Kate! I think, and I haven't read the script, Norrington should wait until Sao Feng is defeated and then pull another twist.

"Ha ha," pulls Liz into a headlock.

Liz: What the hell are you doing?
Will: Yeah, what the hell are you doing?
Norrington: I have my career back, I have everything going for me, why not have a beautiful wife in addition?
Jack: That's called greed.
Norrington: Not the way I see it, Sparrow! So long, bitches! (throws down a ball that explodes into pink smoke. Norrie and Liz disappear)

Jack and Will start coughing

Will: What do we do now?
Jack: Well, I know what YOU'RE going to do.
Will: You're not going to help get Elizabeth back?
Jack: Of course I am. You're just going to do all the dirty work.


Here's a thought: Norrington should be the one to brand Liz a pirate. She'll have a Piece of 8, so she'll technically be a pirate...

well, that would be a big twist if Elizabeth accidentally married Norrington after a drunken night and had to explain it to Will and Jack.


EDIT after reading previous post: SO HOT!!!! i vote YES!!!

Originally posted by katelovespirate
well, that would be a big twist if Elizabeth accidentally married Norrington after a drunken night and had to explain it to Will and Jack.

Yes that would be interesting Ala Britney Spears.

Norrington is just there I think...mm...

I doub't he becomes the captain of the FD...I think its cheesy.

I rather see him betraying Cuttler to help Jack, remove the EITC buisness, and become the next Governor of Port Royal.

How about seeing Jack as a new Lord of the EITC?
Norrigton Gov. Of Port Royal? Yep I can see it happening.

yes i think Jack should become the new Lord Beckett

Lord Beckett always makes me laugh cause I always think Lord Vader... hehehehe

lol i dont believe i have ever heard that comparisson

Yes Lord Darth Vader, I hope Becket's limbs get cut just like Vader.

Is Lord Vader from Star Wars?

Ill be back later ladies

Come back quick Misty

Originally posted by Mistypirate
Ill be back later ladies bye Misty

haha, cruel Beckett and his evil empire. That was a great comparison.

I'm back

Yay! I have to be going soon

Im seeing someone tomorow

It's just not realistic. She's a unique girl, for sure, but she's not the only beautiful girl out there that happens to be smart and capable. I even think Barbossa started crushing on her a little. Go figure.

yeah it is unrealistic. but i guess its fun. it fits with the world of the film, in a way.

i think it actually reflects a lot on the writers that they seem to consistently write women who are powerhouse, good looking, and who attract the attention of every man in the film. Fiona, Jasmine, Chell, Elena, etc. Very similar to Elizabeth, probably Fiona and Elena most of all. Whats up with that?

Kate wrote: Elizabeth and Norrington have amazing chemistry- when they act together, its amazing. they seem very comfortable with each other. i like it. it doesnt seem as forced as other relationships, ahem.


Why do you think I ship them the most? The actors are very natural with each other; even in the first film, when things were awkward with them, they had a flow together.


Plus, just think of them in other ways besides chilling beside each other on the deck of the Pearl; **Liz's legs wrapped around his waist, her fingers brushing through his dark hair, while Norrington nuzzles her throat and carresses her back... ** Note: Whited out for vaguely risque writing.


Oh yeah. That would rock, wouldn't it?


And no matter how pirate Liz turns, I don't believe Norrington would be able to bring himself to ever harm her. He loves her too much.

remove-sorry surreal read both yours and kate's message wrong

On Elizabeth: I think she may be a freaky Mary Sue of sorts. I've suspected it for a while, and the more I see, the more sure of it I am. *ggg*

*sigh* remove again-since you edited yours-lol

who's mary sue?

Scarily perfect female character. Classic signs of the Mary Sue are a tragic history, always getting kidnapped, astonishing beauty, ability to capture any male's attention, is good at everything she does, has an unusual knowledge of weaponry and/or other things that she probably would never have a great deal of knowledge on...


The only things Lizzie lacks are a really, really tragic history, and she does not in fact, have a unique name, hair or eye color.

Well, her mum is dead, perhaps she died tragically...

i cant call Elizabeth a mary sue personally because i always associate mary sues with being delicate but more curvy, more feminine. Elizabeth is DMC doesnt seem very feminine.

Elizabeth, to me, represents a pre Lara-croft phase in life.

if she does end up staying with Will, i will probably have an easier time calling her Mary sue.

ps. if you're at barnes and nobles, get the Action Heroines Handbook. funniest book i've read in years.

0.o

Maybe Elizabeth is not so feminine in DMC because he wants to be Jack instead of being with Jack,cuz the compass points to what do you want most.


But just ignore me , i have no idea why i posted this.

How about, Liz is a tomboy that wants to be like Jack and also wants Jack.

Mary Sues are delicate, but they are also incredible warriors.


I own the Action Heroine's Handbook, and the Evil Villians Handbook, and I plan on getting the zombie survival handbook as well.

Liz is more of a tomboy than your average Mary Sue, and usually Mary Sues have a lot of spirit, but not much actual ability, and Liz is pretty competent and clever. Not to contradict Surreal, but I've read a lot of fanfiction and in a lot of domains, Mary Sues usually stand up to the men and all, but always need saving and always wind up helpless. Liz does her fair share of saving in addition to being saved, and she has personality more so than most Mary Sues.

I said Elizabeth is a near Mary Sue, not an actual Mary Sue. It was meant more as a joke than anything else. I've read plenty of bad fics...I generally skip over ones that say "Will meets his sister and she loves Jack! The story is better than the summary." << I find that unlikely.

Lol, or the classic, further-down-the-road "Jack and Liz are married and have a daughter and Will is married and has a son. Fireworks go off when these two meet."

oh and when they both wern't wearing their hats they kissed.... hmm do you think that is a clue?

Originally posted by jackismyboo
oh and when they both wern't wearing their hats they kissed.... hmm do you think that is a clue?

I just think that just symbolizes that they were both stripped from everything and they were Just ELIZABETH and JACK!

good point piratediva and....about lizzie being a MarySue: IMO for every marysue factor she has she has one counter it example: gets saved alot, rescues alot...girly in COTPB, super boyish in DMC.... gorgeouse, but not unordinary.....and so on.
the only FULL ON marysue factor she has is having a lot of guys fall in love with her I mean for all we know GIBBS and BARBOSSA and DAVY are gonna fall in love with her as well if not already

kissing? hmm. i think we're going too deep with the hat thing. i mean, let's just look at the kiss. what does a kiss represent or symbolize? i think THATS whats important there...

All that sexual tension, and the flirting and thinking of eachother kind of thing was leading twards that kiss.

and a kiss usually means love, respect, passion, desire, understanding, intimacy... sigh.

Yes.. and it goes on and on

Norrie falls for Liz
Will falls for Liz
Jack falls for Liz
Sao Feng will fall for Liz
It could be up in the air if Barbossa falls for Liz

lol, I can't imagine Gibbs falling for her. He would have already, don't you think? He spends a lot of time with her. Now things will get really gross if Beckett falls for her.

I think Beckett is too much in love with himself lol

^ that could be true.

lol

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Norrie falls for Liz
Will falls for Liz
Jack falls for Liz
Sao Feng will fall for Liz
It could be up in the air if Barbossa falls for Liz

lol, I can't imagine Gibbs falling for her. He would have already, don't you think? He spends a lot of time with her. Now things will get really gross if Beckett falls for her.


now there would be an ending everyone would like. Barbossa and Elizabeth. I think that sounds brilliant. They can feed each other apples and dress up in wench attire together.

*hugs kate*

Chiki, have I told you lately how great you are? How did things go with Mr. Neighbor?

It was odd. He wouldn't stop moving, as if he had bugs in his pants. He is the play cool kind of guy, and he started being all clumsy and silly.

Then his cousin came over to see me and I just found out the poor guy has a crush lol.

But I digress
What makes me feel odd is that he's the popular, athletic kind of guy, and Im the modern-free thinker kind of person. ALways giving opinions and very frank--worries about the world. Im very freaky.

hahaha hooray for free thinkers, hippies, anarchists, oh wait, this isnt a RENT song, my bad...


hehehe so he was nervous? that's cute.

It's funny because I always have an opinion on something that he says, and I notices that all of the sudden he agrees with me lol.

I told him that he doesn't have to agree with me, 'cause I know I'm annoying and he said-"No, I really do agree. You are so smart."

Oh, Kate. I'm scared lol. And I hope he is not afraid of me.