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This is regarding technique alone, so speed, agility, size, strength in the force etc. are non variables.

Perhaps Exar Kun or Darth Maul, IMO.

Anakin Skywalker

Darth Tyranus

Do tell how Dooku could be the best when he got you know WTFPwned by Anakin in 8 seconds.

Because we are disregarding Anakins physical attributes which caused his victory.

o to the b to the i

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Because we are disregarding Anakins physical attributes which caused his victory.

Anakin + Darkside = Dooku Pwned.

I apologize I didn't throughly read the topic. Which disregarding the things makes the topic in effect pretty stupid.

4 definitely pop to mind.

1. Kas'im - he mastered every single form (for every primary art of the saber; regular, dual and doublebladed), then spent decades refining his skills and perfecting every single move and sequence, and he was also a master of switching between his forms. He was also completely dedicated to his saber skills, and only his saber skills, practising as much as he possibly could (and I really mean that, he didn't sleep for instance, and practised instead).

2. Ulic Quel-Droma - after having been cut off from the force, and out of practise for 20 years, he was able to stalemate a very powerful jedi master/war champion who was being fueled by the darkside at the time. This is extremely impressive, given the extent a jedi uses the force while dueling (reflexes, precognition, augmenting senses, physical attributes etc.), and judging by Traya's descriptions in KotOR 2, a jedi completely depends on the force, and without it, he is even lesser than a non force user, because of the reliance.

3. Mace Windu - after having mastered multiple forms, he was able to create Vaapad, the most deadly of all forms, and the one that is hardest to master. Only three ever mastered the form, and Windu was the only one who didn't turn to the darkside. He was a saber genius.

4. Kyle Katarn - he was able to defeat 7 powerful dark jedi with no training whatsoever, that's damn impressive. Just refer to Mokoto's arguments.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I apologize I didn't throughly read the topic. Which disregarding the things makes the topic in effect pretty stupid.

Not really, it's discussing who's the best technically, really not that hard to understand.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Just refer to Mokoto's arguments.

You mean "Motoko's", which would actually mean me. I know you are CK/GM now.

Then it contradicts your topic title, genius. The best pure swordsmen implies this is a contest of who's the best swordsman, disregarding the force. It should be called "The Best Technical Swordsmen." Buts its all irrelevant, I already apologized for not reading the topic thoroughly (I tend to skim your posts)

*Lols in regards to last two posts*

From my knoledge Mace and Dooku. The only reason Dooku got pwned was cuz Ani's strength physically and in the dark side.

Mace is self-explanatory. To master Vapaad(or create it) you must master several other forms.

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned Depa yet...

Definately Kas'im

The guy matered the seven forms of lightsaber duelling, double bladed style, and Jar'Kai. Afterwards, he spent decades honing his skills to perfection. He was heralded by DK as possibly the greatest known duelist the galaxy will ever see.

But when physical strength is an attribute to a certain form, how can it be omitted or disregarded?

I said it in another post, but I'll say it here: no one (in the movies) looks as smooth and cool as Dooku... Not that I'm a fanboy of him, because I'm not. But ya gotta admit that he looked cool as hell.

Didn't Mace comment that Depas bladework exceeded his own?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
But when physical strength is an attribute to a certain form, how can it be omitted or disregarded?

You have a point. Makashi is naturally a weak form, but if you disregard strength does that mean Dooku can go blade to blade with Anakin?

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
I said it in another post, but I'll say it here: no one (in the movies) looks as smooth and cool as Dooku... Not that I'm a fanboy of him, because I'm not. But ya gotta admit that he looked cool as hell.

Damn straight.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
You have a point. Makashi is naturally a weak form, but if you disregard strength does that mean Dooku can go blade to blade with Anakin?



Damn straight.

makashi is not a weak form it's "the dueling form" and strength has absolutely nothing to do with lkightsabers. why? because the only thing that has wight is the hilt. this has been argued before you cant put strenth and weight into lightsaber swings.

FFS, Rampant!

It's taken months, but I thought we got through this: Anakin overpowered and outmaneuvered Dooku. When he got "in the zone" he was simply a mile ahead of him in ability. Hence why Dooku got his ass kicked at the last part of the duel.

Damn.

In pure outright technique, I think I've got to give it to Dooku. You don't technically get much better then Dooku. He was a saber master of the highest level and of the most eloquent lightsaber form, and he mastered that form to perfection. I'd say Dooku's Makashi was unrivaled from a pure technique standpoint. That doesn't mean he was the best duelist, what it means is that his form and mastery of the style was flawless.

The best pure swordsman?

Me, obviously.

*jumps off the top of the thread and drags a lightsaber through it, Flynn-style*

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
makashi is not a weak form it's "the dueling form" and strength has absolutely nothing to do with lkightsabers. why? because the only thing that has wight is the hilt. this has been argued before you cant put strenth and weight into lightsaber swings.
Actually when it's stated that Form 5 uses the physical strength of the user, then yes, strength does matter. Even if you say that the blade weighs nothing, just the hilt...well, where the hilt goes the blade follows. And unfortunately for all the science geeks in here, logic doesn't apply to lightsabers, or else they would pass through each other, so yes, strength matters is certain forms.

Originally posted by Captain REX
The best pure swordsman?

Me, obviously.

*jumps off the top of the thread and drags a lightsaber through it, Flynn-style*
Flynn-Style....is tat where you pretend, when in reality, you're a total jackass who punches out people for small offenses, commits statutory rape and possibly murder, only to die a drug addled, bloated husk of your former self years later?

Interesting style to use, Rex....very interesting

statutory rape lol you are in deep shit if you do it in singapore, You get canned and believe me, they put molecular acid on the cane.

lolz, Kadesh is from Singapore.

You know me too well, Lightsnake...

Is Lightsnake kidding, or did he just call Rex a jackass?

REX is pretty bitchy

agreed

Rex, your shittiest person in the world. You should hang by your testicles then have your appendage chopped off.

LMAO

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Rex, your shittiest person in the world. You should hang by your testicles then have your appendage chopped off.

I agree, completely. Lets do it together Rocas.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Didn't Mace comment that Depas bladework exceeded his own?
Yep

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Didn't Mace comment that Depas bladework exceeded his own? I think he was overexaggerating her when he said that......afterall she did turn to the Dark Side didn't she.

I'm still sticking with Dooku for this. His pure bladework is phenomenal.

Originally posted by Sexyback
lolz, Kadesh is from Singapore.

Nope but i live here, i was from nevada originally

I'm going with Anakin here. You have to be pretty damn good to defeat Dooku in 20 seconds, and kill Cin Drallig while choking someone else.

Echani swordsman like Yusanis and Fenni are said to be great swordsman.

id say dooku. anakin overpowered him and forced him back in ep 3, and then dooku was unprepaired, off balance and outmanuvered by anakin. i read somewhere that form 2s only weakness is against multiple opponents, and really powerful physical attacks.

dooku handled anakin and obi wan fairly well together, but then couldnt keep up with anakins strength. he was like a million years old at the time too so i cant really fault him for not having freakish strength. form 2 is the saber to saber form, and dooku mastered it more than anyone else in the jedi order. yodas speed might leave him behind, but in skill dooku is second to nobody.

Anakin used form II too, so Dooku clearly didnot master it more than anyone else. (Djem So is a combination of Makashi and Soresu)

I love opinion threads.

So Obi-Wan is obviously the best.

Sorry Hef, but Djem So isn't a combo of those other forms...none of them have any of the same characteristics...where did you hear that from?

just because someone else uses form 2 doesnt impact dookus mastery of it. i didnt say he was the sole user and master of it. i said he mastered it more than anyone else. as in all other users did not master it to the degree he did.

Coleman Trebor mastered it

I'd be inclined to give a nod to Sidious, because that twisting move in Ep3 was off the hook. But he doesn't seem to be able to hold on to his lightsaber for too long. lol

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Sorry Hef, but Djem So isn't a combo of those other forms...none of them have any of the same characteristics...where did you hear that from?

Form V or the Way of the Krayt Dragon was a powerful style developed by Form III practitioners that preferred a more offensive style, since the defensive nature of Form III often led to dangerously prolonged combat. Form V evolved into a combat style by combining the defensive maneuvers of Form III with the more aggressive philosophy and tactics of Form II.

from wikipedia, it made sense to me. after all 2 and 3 does give you 5.

I submit to you...












GENERAL GRIEVOUS!

I'd have to say Anakin, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Sidious, Mace Windu, Yoda etc. Although not necessarily in that order.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
I'd have to say Anakin, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Sidious, Mace Windu, Yoda etc. Although not necessarily in that order. lol you might as well name every Jedi and Sith who's won a duel. The topic is "Best Pure Swordsman" not "Who's good with a lightsaber".

Originally posted by Black Dalek
Anakin + Darkside = Dooku Pwned.

God, just because Anakin beat Dooku doesn't mean that Dooku was pwned! Everyone here seems to think that victory means pwnage. That is ridiculous!

Dooku was a jobber. He lost so easily. Marxman lol Best Pure Swordsman means a lot of things, Not just one. Who do you think is the best pure swordsman? Besides those that I named are very very good and excellent swordsman.

So are you saying that Dooku is weak because he lost to Anakin. Sorry but that is bullsh*t. Put anyone in Dookus's position and they would have lost. So by your logic the whole Jedi Order are 'jobbers' because they all would have lost to Anakin.

Not what I am saying at all Rampant ox. A lot of people think that Count Dooku is the best. If thats true, Then it should have been a much better battle between the two. Not all of the jedi order is weak. Although some are.

Originally posted by Gideon
I submit to you...












GENERAL GRIEVOUS!

Hehehe...Go Grievous

This is too relativy. Anyone here can say that one particular duelist is the greatest pure duelist since he was good with the lightsaber, but what is a "pure duelist"? I think a pure duelst is someone who can match in lightsaber skill foes with greater force power and still being one of the greatest swordsman ever. In this case i think windu is the best, especially since he CREATED a lightsaber style, and probably the most powerful one.

But as i said this is TOO relative, anyone here has his args and can say someone is the best due to this or that reason...

Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is arguably the best pure swordsmen here. Unlike Anakin, whos ripping muscles and rage help him fuel his Djem So power, Dooku does not have that. Unlike Yoda's height and speed, which boosts his ability to use Ataru, Dooku does not have that either.

Tyrannus does not have anything unique about him that gives him an advantage when using Makashi. Dooku does not possess an extra amount of strength or speed. Yet he was able to master Makashi purely, and he was so skilled in its use that he was able to take on the likes of Anakin and Yoda and Grievous.

Thus, I feel the best pure swordsmen is Count Dooku.

Aye, I would put Kenobi perhaps two, but definately very high.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is arguably the best pure swordsmen here. Unlike Anakin, whos ripping muscles and rage help him fuel his Djem So power, Dooku does not have that. Unlike Yoda's height and speed, which boosts his ability to use Ataru, Dooku does not have that either.

Tyrannus does not have anything unique about him that gives him an advantage when using Makashi. Dooku does not possess an extra amount of strength or speed. Yet he was able to master Makashi purely, and he was so skilled in its use that he was able to take on the likes of Anakin and Yoda and Grievous.

Thus, I feel the best pure swordsmen is Count Dooku.

Martini's to Dooku is like Steroids to Berry Bonds. He would be nothing without his Martini.

I think Obi-Wan is the best pure Saber combatent, actually.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is arguably the best pure swordsmen here. Unlike Anakin, whos ripping muscles and rage help him fuel his Djem So power, Dooku does not have that. Unlike Yoda's height and speed, which boosts his ability to use Ataru, Dooku does not have that either.

Tyrannus does not have anything unique about him that gives him an advantage when using Makashi. Dooku does not possess an extra amount of strength or speed. Yet he was able to master Makashi purely, and he was so skilled in its use that he was able to take on the likes of Anakin and Yoda and Grievous.

Thus, I feel the best pure swordsmen is Count Dooku.

That was so true and so touching that it almost brought a tear to my eye.

Almost.

What about Obi Wan?

he did master soresu to its highest i think but dookus mastery is to its highest degree

In terms of pure swordsman I still have to give it to Obi-Wan. DOoku's skill all relies on his strength with the force, he would be severely weaker if he wasn''t as strong in the force as he was. Obi-Wan managed to kick all sorts of ass, all this while being so weak with the force that he almost got sent to the Argicultural corps...

Originally posted by Blaxican
In terms of pure swordsman I still have to give it to Obi-Wan. DOoku's skill all relies on his strength with the force, he would be severely weaker if he wasn''t as strong in the force as he was. Obi-Wan managed to kick all sorts of ass, all this while being so weak with the force that he almost got sent to the Argicultural corps...

What you just said coupled with my quote from the ROTS novel does help to sum it up. He certainly managed to come a long way, huh? Still, though, I wouldn't call it case closed, just yet.

Not necessarily. He was able to duke it out in a continous lightsaber duel with AOTC Obi-Wan, AOTC Anakin, and Yoda. He only used the Force in the beginning and end of the duel against the Grandmaster, but other than that it was purely lightsabers.

The thing is, he only "revitalized" himself in the Invisible Hand duel because he was facing a stronger opponent, Anakin, who's Djem So skill drew more kinetic energy against Dooku and drained the Sith Lord rapidly. Against an opponent like Kenobi, Dooku can eventually beat him in a lightsaber duel without because extremely exhausted.

Then why kenobi lasted for so long against anakin?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Then why kenobi lasted for so long against anakin?

1. "Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior." (Revenge of the Sith, Ch 20)

Obi-Wan knew Anakin like the back of his hand, it's quite apparent that that was the main reason he was able to last so long. While the reverse is also true, the duel would be drawn out nonetheless. Especially if you consider the below.

2. Obi-Wan's plan was to constantly give ground to the point where it would be hard to strike down your opponents, or at least, so Anakin's wrath would be "slowed down". For example, platform jumping, lava skating, and the like. Had he stayed in one general area (i.e. like on the Invisible Hand), the duel definitely would've ended sooner.

3. His Soresu must've been good in situations like the above, where Anakin cannot give full force to his attacks.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is arguably the best pure swordsmen here. Unlike Anakin, whos ripping muscles and rage help him fuel his Djem So power, Dooku does not have that. Unlike Yoda's height and speed, which boosts his ability to use Ataru, Dooku does not have that either.

Tyrannus does not have anything unique about him that gives him an advantage when using Makashi. Dooku does not possess an extra amount of strength or speed. Yet he was able to master Makashi purely, and he was so skilled in its use that he was able to take on the likes of Anakin and Yoda and Grievous.

Thus, I feel the best pure swordsmen is Count Dooku. I AGREE