Sersi vs Storm

Rutog98

Storm. While I agree Sersi could should have easily beaten Sue, there is a weakness Sersi has that Storm can very easily exploit. Sersi can only transmute a certain amount of mass without killing herself.

I posted this in anothe thread that prompted this thread (X-Factor vs. Storm thread):

In order for Sersi to transmute STorm into anything or punch her, she would have to be able to locate STorm first. Hence, I stated at the very beginning that if Storm can get around Ssersi transmuting her the first second of the battle, the battle becomes messy. If Storm can come up with something quick and clever to put Sersi off balance at the very beginning, Storm can steal Sersi's vision with weather cover and shield her mind from TP detection so that Sersi can't locate her to direct her transmuting attacks or energy blasts or punches anything. Her only hope would be to transmute all of the snow (which is being continually generated in vast quantities by nature compliments of our favorite weather goddess). That's too much mass.

For something clever at the very beginning, Storm could just instantly glow very bring to flash blind Sersi from the offset of the fight. Its simple and quick and should distract Sersi before she can transmute Storm as transmutation is something that much more complex than this.

Soleran

Dude when Storm throws up a pressure dome it repels all magic, claws, logic, reason, you name it, it's got the protection!

Rutog98

Storm vs. Sersi is a 50/50. One can trounce the other depending on who uses their head better in the fight/instance.

Blair Wind

Only sersi scan I have besides her turning thor into a frog. no expression

Sersi wins. 10/10

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys150hl.jpg

Rutog98

Originally posted by Soleran
Dude when Storm throws up a pressure dome it repels all magic, claws, logic, reason, you name it, it's got the protection!

Okay, this is silly. Obviously you disagree. That's cool. I think its good. If we all agreed on the same things, there would never be debates and things around here would be boring. If you disagree with me, debate with me using intelligent posts. You feel the fight is ridiculous, I feel its a good one. Lets have at it! wink

Badabing

Originally posted by Soleran
Dude when Storm throws up a pressure dome it repels all magic, claws, logic, reason, you name it, it's got the protection!

laughing

Soleran

Originally posted by Rutog98
Okay, this is silly. Obviously you disagree. That's cool. I think its good. If we all agreed on the same things, there would never be debates and things around here would be boring. If you disagree with me, debate with me using intelligent posts. You feel the fight is ridiculous, I feel its a good one. Lets have at it! wink

I respect your post here and imagination that said I do not think Storm could do JACK nor SQUAT to Sersi who can control her own Molecules to an umpth degree.

Storm has nothing of what it takes to hurt Sersi who is the BEST matter manipulator of the Eternals.

Sorry bud Storm gets creamed. 9/10

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Only sersi scan I have besides her turning thor into a frog. no expression

Sersi wins. 10/10

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys150hl.jpg Thor? Pft. He's nothing. She'll get snowblinded and then Storm will hide with her above Adam Warlock-level psychic defenses then Sersi's done for.

Then Storm goes and kills Ikaris and Zuras just for the hell of it.

Doctor S.T.D.

What if she goes all 'Day after tommorow' in the Atmosphere. It would kill her, but Sersi would also die presumably ?

Rutog98

Originally posted by Soleran
I respect your post here and imagination that said I do not think Storm could do JACK nor SQUAT to Sersi who can control her own Molecules to an umpth degree.

Storm has nothing of what it takes to hurt Sersi who is the BEST matter manipulator of the Eternals.

Sorry bud Storm gets creamed. 9/10

I know what Sersi can do, but though she is highly resistant to injury,she is not immune to harm.

At Xmarksthespot, it is not always huge power displays that wins the fight. Sometimes, imagination will do it.

To both of you:

We all know that Sersi has to know where Storm is in order to transmute her. Here is the question: Can Sersi locate STorm through a blizzard? Meanwhile, Storm knows exactly where Sersi is. Storm can move thousands of tons with those winds of hers very easily. While Sersi is blind in the blizzard, Storm can hit her with a barrage of boulders coming at her at ungodly speeds, blow Sersi up against mountainsides and against the ground at extreme velocity and lightning bolt after lightning bolt. Sersi has no idea when those winds are coming or from which direction. Sersi is not going down easily, but if a class 100 strength person were to punch Sersi enough times, she would pass out. Storm's winds are EXTREME class 100 strength if we were to make an analogy.

Sersi's control over her body at the atomic level (its better than molecular level, Soleran wink

) and ability to manipulate matter at this level does her credit for sure. Its a VERY messy and very nasty power to fight. However, I think that Storm has the right mix of powers to be able to combat it. That said, if Storm were just sitting there and did nothing and allowed Sersi to work her powers on her, Sersi would be able to do more to her than if the reverse were to happen and Sersi were to just allow Storm to work her powers on her. I am not claiming otherwise. However, I submit that Ororo can use her powers creatively to greatly reduce Sersi's chances of working her powers directly upon her. This is the thrust of my rebuttle. I think as well that Storm has the means to hurt Sersi. Sersi is not going down in 10 seconds or anything, but I think Storm can put her down eventually. The longer the battle goes, I think the more it swings in Storm's favor.

To Sersi's credit, she does have force-fields, illusion casting, telepathy, etc, but Storm's mix of powers and mental dicipline and extra-sensory abilities counter these things very well. The fight is a messy one.

nvrbeenwthagirl

What in God's name? WTF? Sersi is like what the only lvl 5 Matter transmuter in Marvel who isn't a cosmic right? What is this thread for? She turns Storm into a snow flake.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Rutog98
I know what Sersi can do, but though she is highly resistant to injury,she is not immune to harm. Storm is not immune to telepathy, only resistant to it. The assertion that she'd be completely invisible to Sersi's telepathy is baseless.
Originally posted by Rutog98
At Xmarksthespot, it is not always huge power displays that wins the fight. Sometimes, imagination will do it.I don't really consider turning someone into a pig incredibly flashy or extravagant. But it's enough to do the trick. Or simply incinerating someone with eyebeams. Tends to be a lot faster than making a snowstorm that manages to somehow completely blind Sersi, somehow before she can do anything whatsoever despite her speed.

Rutog98

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Storm is not immune to telepathy, only resistant to it. The assertion that she'd be completely invisible to Sersi's telepathy is baseless.
I don't really consider turning someone into a pig incredibly flashy or extravagant. But it's enough to do the trick. Or simply incinerating someone with eyebeams. Tends to be a lot faster than making a snowstorm that manages to somehow completely blind Sersi, somehow before she can do anything whatsoever despite her speed.

The snow storm was not how I was having STorm begin the fight. Storm herself can glow up brightly enough to blind people. All Storm has to do is glow while summoning her blizzard at the same time. The light will blind her. I used this tactic to avoid the whole debate as to who can hit faster: Storm's blizzard or Sersi's transmutation of Storm. The blinding light trick is a quick and easy thing to do and something that's clever as its unexpected. Turning someone into a pig is much more complex as you have to manipulate their atomic structure for that feat.

Sersi hitting Sorm with eye beams, is not a strong argument. Storm dodges energy blasts all the time.

That said, I rethought this. The whole snow storm thing is one scenerio. The fight can go much more easily than that. What it comes down to is this: who can get the other first with STorm and her winds vs. Sersi and her transmutation power. If they hit each other at the same time, Sersi wins as Storm does not have a weapon in her arsenal that will take out Sersi on impact as quickly as Sersi's powers would take out Storm on impact.

If Storm gets her winds up, Sersi would be spinning in a whirlwind continually and unable to muster her concentration to work her powers on Storm or even know where to direct her powers. Don't bother bringing up the Hulk thing during Onslaught as that was PIS.

To Storm's credit, her winds can very easily imitate an extreme class 100 strength character as she can move thousands of tons effortlessly. In fact, her winds are in many ways worse than this type of character as they can pummel you from every direction, lift all the objects in the area and hurl them at ungodly velocities which hit with tremendous force and they are unrelenting. If a class 100 strength character were to punch Sersi over and over, she will pass out. There is no disputing this. The same would hold true for Storm's winds. She could trap Sersi in her winds and dash her against mountainsides, the ground while at the same time lifting boulders and shrapnel in the area and pounding Sersi with them from all directions. Spinning as Sersi is throughout all of this, she can't recover and she will pass out after enough punishment as the winds are going to be smashing Sersi around with the force of extreme class 100 strength chracters continually.

Now, if Sersi hit Storm with her transmutation power at the very beginning, she obviously trounces Ororo. It really depends on that first second of the fight. Storm would have to be clever and do something that would catch Sersi off guard or blind her or something. The longer the fight goes, the more it swings in Ororo's favor.

Here is an alternative to the blizzard attach Ororo could use against Sersi and one that is more simplistic and would mostly likely end the battle faster. Of course, Storm could snow blind her before using these tactics. wink

For those of you who think this fight was a quick open in close thing for Sersi, I hope that I am getting you to rethink it. Back in the X-Factor vs. Storm thread, I went into detail as to why its hard to match people up against STorm. Either you have power that so easily trumps her that you beat her easily or, if she can beat you, most likely, her powers counters yours very well and she can trump you easily. Its very hard to find someone who is a 50/50 against Storm considering all of the aspects of her powers and all that she can bring to bear in a fight. She doesn't always have to rely on sheer power alone. Her powers are so diverse, she can be very creative with them like this glowing up business I'm using here at the first second of the fight. This is a tactic she used against Cyclops in X-Men issue 60 to blind him so he could not shoot his beam.

The Fake Macoy

Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.
What if she goes all 'Day after tommorow' in the Atmosphere. It would kill her, but Sersi would also die presumably ?

How is a storm going to kill an Eternal, who can't really be killed at all? Besides, the Eternals can fly through space unprotected. I don't think that cold weather can hurt them if they can survive in space.

xmarksthespot

First off, when has Storm ever glowed incandescent to brighter than the sun?
Second, why would Sersi be doing nothing to protect herself from this?
Third, matter transmutation may be complex, but Sersi with her thousands of years of experience can and does transmute matter with ease.
Fourth Sersi still wouldn't be blind, she's penetrated Adam Warlock's psychic defences, Storm being resistant to telepathy does not make her immune or invisible to it.

And finally Sersi can transmute and manipulate matter on a large scale "without killing herself".
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3679/p19iy5.th.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7954/p20ek1.th.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2600/p21qz9.th.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8397/avengers373p22mp4.th.jpg

Not that she even needs to, to win this.

Rutog98

1) STorm has glowed brighter than the sun on a number of occassions. I can remember when she destroyed the Cairn in the Uncanny issue where Kierrok attacked the team. What does this have to do with anything?

2) What can Sersi do to protect herself from this? What is she going to do to stop a blizzard or Storm's winds?

3) I know that she has thousands of years of experience, but it is still much more complex than what Storm is doing and Ororo can do her stuff innately. Sersi came by her mastery over thousands of years of experience while Storm innately knows how to work her powers.

4) Adam Warlock and Storm are two different characters. The only thing this makes me aware of is Storm's defenses are stronger than Warlock's unless Adam was written down for Sersi which makes it PIS. Sersi is no Shadow King, Xavier or the Entity as a telepath. Not by any stretch of the the imagination. If you think Sersi can take out Xavier or Shadow King in psi combat, start up a Sersi vs. Xavier or Shadow King thread and restrict Sersi to her telepathy only and lets see how far you go. I know my Xavier and Shadow King history very well. You better have some telepathic feats from Sersi that are enormous for that one. Sersi does not have the telepathic feats for that kind of thread. Storm's defenses are too much even for these.

5) That stunt is not a massive scale. We are comparing her with Storm here. She merely took out a bridge by manipulating some of the water from the river or bay (I don't remember all the details of that issue very well. Its been years since I've read it). Storm controls FAR more volume than that effortlessly. If you are going to try and argue volume between STorm and Sersi, Ororo has SErsi beaten here so bad that its a joke. Sersi would be very foolish if she tried to affect the volume Ororo can. She dies WAY WAY WAY before Storm reaches her limits. It was during the Brides of Set story arc where the Avengers were confronted with a massive sea beast (think Godzilla) and the team asked if Sersi could transform it into a goldfish or something. She said the thing had far too much mass and the strain of trying to transmute something that big would kill her. The snow Ororo can generate in no time flat in a blizzard is going to have much more mass than Godzilla.

Sersi is very powerful, however, Storm has the right mix of powers and moxie to win this. I called the fight a 50/50.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Rutog98
1) STorm has glowed brighter than the sun on a number of occassions. I can remember when she destroyed the Cairn in the Uncanny issue where Kierrok attacked the team. What does this have to do with anything? Why would a woman who shoots blinding beams from her eyes be blinded by a bright light? no expression

Originally posted by Rutog98
2) What can Sersi do to protect herself from this? What is she going to do to stop a blizzard or Storm's winds? Why would a woman who shoots blinding beams from her eyes be blinded by a bright light? Telepath. Telekinetic. no expression

Originally posted by Rutog98
3) I know that she has thousands of years of experience, but it is still much more complex than what Storm is doing and Ororo can do her stuff innately. Sersi came by her mastery over thousands of years of experience while Storm innately knows how to work her powers.I'm sorry are you saying that Storm had instant mastery of her abilities from the first moment she manifested powers? Are you saying that Eternals don't know how to work their powers innately? Eternals are born with their gifts, and Sersi has been using them for thousands and thousands of years. She can transmute Storm into a donkey or a pig or a chair with a literal thought. Or snap her fingers and teleport Storm into the ground.

She can transmute Thor, but no she's gonna have to ponder a while because it's Storm. no expression

Originally posted by Rutog98
4) Adam Warlock and Storm are two different characters. The only thing this makes me aware of is Storm's defenses are stronger than Warlock's unless Adam was written down for Sersi which makes it PIS. Sersi is no Shadow King, Xavier or the Entity as a telepath. Not by any stretch of the the imagination. If you think Sersi can take out Xavier or Shadow King in psi combat, start up a Sersi vs. Xavier or Shadow King thread and restrict Sersi to her telepathy only and lets see how far you go. I know my Xavier and Shadow King history very well. You better have some telepathic feats from Sersi that are enormous for that one. Sersi does not have the telepathic feats for that kind of thread. Storm's defenses are too much even for these. Why would a telepath need to be the Shadow King or Xavier to simply detect Storm (and telepaths below these two have psiblasted her and located her anyway.) Storm isn't immune to telepathy a la Psylocke, just resistant to it. That doesn't make her invisible to it.
Originally posted by Rutog98
5) That stunt is not a massive scale. We are comparing her with Storm here. She merely took out a bridge by manipulating some of the water from the river or bay (I don't remember all the details of that issue very well. Its been years since I've read it). Storm controls FAR more volume than that effortlessly. If you are going to try and argue volume between STorm and Sersi, Ororo has SErsi beaten here so bad that its a joke. Sersi would be very foolish if she tried to affect the volume Ororo can. She dies WAY WAY WAY before Storm reaches her limits. It was during the Brides of Set story arc where the Avengers were confronted with a massive sea beast (think Godzilla) and the team asked if Sersi could transform it into a goldfish or something. She said the thing had far too much mass and the strain of trying to transmute something that big would kill her. The snow Ororo can generate in no time flat in a blizzard is going to have much more mass than Godzilla.
She washed away the Brooklyn Bridge with a tidal wave and was going to transmute the air in the city and set it ablaze. Yeh, you don't downplay other characters at all. roll eyes (sarcastic)

What composes a blizzard? Air? Water? What exactly is the mass of a blizzard?
Is Storm the size of a godzilla creature?

Edit: It was a submarine with nukes, she states it's too far away, and that she doesn't understand the mechanics of how the submarine/nukes works. Which contradicts that she has transmuted things from similar distances before and can transmute things without knowing their internal mechanics fully - she can turn a chair into a dog.

She mentions nothing of dying.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Sersi is very powerful, however, Storm has the right mix of powers and moxie to win this. I called the fight a 50/50.
Moxie? What the f**k?

Sersi has long range matter transmutation and superspeed, superstrength, regenerative abilities, telepathy, telekinesis and the list goes on. Storm gets turned into furniture.

celestialdemon

This goes to Sersi 10/10. Hardly even a battle.

leonidas

Originally posted by celestialdemon
This goes to Sersi 10/10. Hardly even a battle.

you ain't kidding. someone is actually defending storm in this fight . . .

blink

if she had a free, open surprise attack, she is prolly capable of ko'ing sersi, but that would be the ONLY way she could beat sersi . . .

What If...

14th spite thread aganst Storm.

LOLOAWLAOWLAOWLOAWL SEWFUNNIE.

Grimm22

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Racist!

Anyway, the only way Sersi would lose would be through massive amounts of PIS like her very shitty low showing against Sue. And PIS isn't considered due to forum rules...

Sersi lost to Sue?!? What the f**k?

When the hell did this happen?!?

2damnloud

I appreciate Rutog for presenting COHERENT arguments as to why Storm may or may not win.

Brilliant post.

the Darkone

Originally posted by Rutog98
1) STorm has glowed brighter than the sun on a number of occassions. I can remember when she destroyed the Cairn in the Uncanny issue where Kierrok attacked the team. What does this have to do with anything?

2) What can Sersi do to protect herself from this? What is she going to do to stop a blizzard or Storm's winds?

3) I know that she has thousands of years of experience, but it is still much more complex than what Storm is doing and Ororo can do her stuff innately. Sersi came by her mastery over thousands of years of experience while Storm innately knows how to work her powers.

4) Adam Warlock and Storm are two different characters. The only thing this makes me aware of is Storm's defenses are stronger than Warlock's unless Adam was written down for Sersi which makes it PIS. Sersi is no Shadow King, Xavier or the Entity as a telepath. Not by any stretch of the the imagination. If you think Sersi can take out Xavier or Shadow King in psi combat, start up a Sersi vs. Xavier or Shadow King thread and restrict Sersi to her telepathy only and lets see how far you go. I know my Xavier and Shadow King history very well. You better have some telepathic feats from Sersi that are enormous for that one. Sersi does not have the telepathic feats for that kind of thread. Storm's defenses are too much even for these.

5) That stunt is not a massive scale. We are comparing her with Storm here. She merely took out a bridge by manipulating some of the water from the river or bay (I don't remember all the details of that issue very well. Its been years since I've read it). Storm controls FAR more volume than that effortlessly. If you are going to try and argue volume between STorm and Sersi, Ororo has SErsi beaten here so bad that its a joke. Sersi would be very foolish if she tried to affect the volume Ororo can. She dies WAY WAY WAY before Storm reaches her limits. It was during the Brides of Set story arc where the Avengers were confronted with a massive sea beast (think Godzilla) and the team asked if Sersi could transform it into a goldfish or something. She said the thing had far too much mass and the strain of trying to transmute something that big would kill her. The snow Ororo can generate in no time flat in a blizzard is going to have much more mass than Godzilla.

Sersi is very powerful, however, Storm has the right mix of powers and moxie to win this. I called the fight a 50/50.

you are a sad soul. Sersi will transmute hi moecules into sh**. Our sersi can teleport her a$$ into space, this fight is not even close, our sersi can incase her in pisonic force shield like Thanos. Sersi 1000/1000

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Edit: It was a submarine with nukes, she states it's too far away, and that she doesn't understand the mechanics of how the submarine/nukes works. Which contradicts that she has transmuted things from similar distances before and can transmute things without knowing their internal mechanics fully - she can turn a chair into a dog. Edit of my edit: Actually I was recalling a different instance of when Sersi has said a limitation she's contradicted in feats. I don't think I read all of the Atlantis Attacks Crossover Annuals.

Storm still gets turned into a flying monkey.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I appreciate Rutog for presenting COHERENT arguments as to why Storm may or may not win.

Brilliant post.

making up powers doesn't count as arguing

so far Storm's fanboys have claimed:
she can dodge light
cause eaethquakes with air the earth's crust
resist high level psycics with ease
manipluate the EM spectrum better than magneto
see people actions before the make them
create a dome of pressure that can stop any attack
control every atom in the earth's atmosphere at will
create winds more powerful than a large nuke
outrace quicksilver
*ramble on for ten minutes*

storm is not a bad character but her fans are straigth out of the nut house

sersi kills her without effort by transforming the air in her lungs into pudding

boriquaking55

Sersi would crush Storm 10,0000/10

This is just ridiculous

Rutog98

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why would a woman who shoots blinding beams from her eyes be blinded by a bright light? no expression

Why would a woman who shoots blinding beams from her eyes be blinded by a bright light? Telepath. Telekinetic. no expression

I'm sorry are you saying that Storm had instant mastery of her abilities from the first moment she manifested powers? Are you saying that Eternals don't know how to work their powers innately? Eternals are born with their gifts, and Sersi has been using them for thousands and thousands of years. She can transmute Storm into a donkey or a pig or a chair with a literal thought. Or snap her fingers and teleport Storm into the ground.

She may be blinded because the light is coming from another source other than her. Anyway, I just stated Storm doing bright light at the very beginning of the fight as an example of somehting clever. She has other things she could do. For instance, in Uncanny 179, she set off thunderclaps around Pyro's, Blob's and Avalanche's heads in order to prevent them from being able to concentrate to use their powers. She did this without even summoning lightning which would make them. That is another clever thing she could do. This is easier than lightning, yet with a snap of Storm's fingers, she can summon multiple strikes at the same time instantly. Sersi is not the only one who can snap her fingers.

Eternals do not know how their powers work innately. They have to expiment and practice a lot for their control. This is why some of them practice one or a few aspects of their power and surpass the others in that area because they focused there. Storm, on the other hand, instinctively knew how to ork her powers from the very beginning.

You better believe that Storm can shield her mind from TP detection. She did this to Psylocke when Psylocke was boosted by Cerebro. Psylocke tried to locate Storm and make contact with her, but Storm shielded her mind from Betsy enhanced by Cerebro. Psis have psi-blasted STorm below these people as PIS. Lobdell/Kelly/Seagle ignored all of Storm's TP defenses so that makes it PIS. She's not going to have anymore trouble transmuting Storm than she did Thor. That is not the issue. The whole thrust of this is who can use their powers creatively to get to the other before they can get gotten to. Storm gets her winds around Sersi (which she can do in no time flat), and Storm wins. Sersi hits STorm with one of her powers and she wins.

Blizzards can drop millions, billions, even trillions of tons of snow. Obviously Storm is not going to make one the size of a city or anything, but she's been able to generate blizzards capable of burying characters the size of Juggernaut in no time flat. In real life, blizzards that occur that fiercely, but Storm's do. All she has to do is create something like that over say a few square miles. Piece of cake for her considering she can create continent sized blizzards. Storm is not a Godzilla-sized creature, yet you put all that snow in her blizzard together and its going to be FAR more than Godzilla. Sersi will have to transmute that in order to locate Storm if Ororo gets her instant blizzard up. Transmuting the air over a city to set it ablaze is nice, but it has nowhere near the mass or volume of snow.

Edit: It was a submarine with nukes, she states it's too far away, and that she doesn't understand the mechanics of how the submarine/nukes works. Which contradicts that she has transmuted things from similar distances before and can transmute things without knowing their internal mechanics fully - she can turn a chair into a dog.

She mentions nothing of dying.

This story you mention another story (a 6 six-part one) and one I did not mention (though its one of my favorite Sersi stories. wink

) The story I am talking about is during the crossover where the Lemurians captured 7 women to be the brides of Set.

You actually left out some of Sersi's abilities here. lol. I know the character very well as she is my favorite female Avenger. Anyway, just listing her long list of powers doesn't prove anything. How can she use them to outdo Storm's powers. That's the problem. Now you have done this huge post, but you still have not told me how Sersi can protect herself from Storm's winds. I am well aware of Sersi's powers. I also know her weaknesses. First off, she doesn't have any way to anchor herself against Storm's winds. I did not know that she was a telekinetic (I have never seen her power described that way), but it doesn't matter. Sersi's TK and TP are not even worth mentioning in this fight as Sersi is nowhere near strong in these areas to challenge Storm. Ororo is a Claremontian Woman. lol. In the X-World, you have psis like White Queen, Shadow King, Xavier, Candra etc. Storm has proven her merits against psis of this calibur. These people are way beyond Sersi in their TP and/or TK abilities. Sersi has all of those powers, but she cannot wield any of them to withstand Ororo's winds. Storm's winds alone makes her one of the most deadly advasaries on the planet. Storm's blizzard nullifies all of Sersi's attacks on her as Sersi has to locate her first. Magneto, though weaker than Sersi, has powers that are much better suited for anchoring himself against forces and his powers were even put under tremendous strain to anchor himself against Storm's winds. Jean Grey has had a lot of trouble with this as well when Ororo's winds were not even directed at her and all she got was just a taste of what STorm was dishing out.

Storm's winds will easily cover the battlefield (she has stopped hemisphere-sized hurricanes cold). She gets Sersi in that and the fight is over. What is all boils down to is can Sersi hit her with something before Storm hits her with the winds.

the Darkone

Sersi will tag storm a$$ every time, Eternals can teleport at will. Sersi can tag Storm miles away or cast illusion to fool storm into thinking she defeated Seris and then bam storm is turn into a chip-muck.

Sersi beats her 1000/1000

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Rutog98
Amnesiac Sersi turned a cat into a dragon, while she thought she was an ordinary human.
She can psi-scan the entire planet without the aid of any technology. She can locate Storm.
I edited my edit.
I'd like to see where Storm's been able to generate a million ton snowstorm in the time it takes Sersi to turn her into a frog.
She's shielded herself and her fellow Avengers from a universal obliteration. She's flown and blasted through hurricane gales. She can shield herself from Storm's attacks.
She's been disintegrated and reformed herself.

She's faster than Storm. She has incredibly high mastery of matter transmutation. And a host of other abilities.

Sersi wins every time. I won't be replying to you anymore because your delusions have gone beyond boring me. But you're welcome to continue spouting those delusions. smile

Rutog98

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
making up powers doesn't count as arguing

so far Storm's fanboys have claimed:
she can dodge light
cause eaethquakes with air the earth's crust
resist high level psycics with ease
manipluate the EM spectrum better than magneto
see people actions before the make them
create a dome of pressure that can stop any attack
control every atom in the earth's atmosphere at will
create winds more powerful than a large nuke
outrace quicksilver
*ramble on for ten minutes*

storm is not a bad character but her fans are straigth out of the nut house

sersi kills her without effort by transforming the air in her lungs into pudding

In order:

1) She can dodge light speed blasts as she dodged Cyclops' blasts in X-Men issue 60 when he fired them in machine gun fashion. You need to accept it. You don't need to say this anymore.

2) Storm caused an earthquake. That is canon and thus indisputable. I believe she did it by manipulating heat and pressure within the earth. She controls these forces anyway. Its also been stated that she can actually control ALL of the elemental forces on the planet in another issue in canon. Again, you lose credibility when you go on about this.

3) Sersi is no psi in the calibur with what Storm has bested. That said, prior to her electrical powers being expanded to where she can fry telepaths out of her mind, she would have trouble against a psi like Shadow King (but she could beat him) and it would take his full concentration to try and fight her. I can see why Storm fans feel that Ororo can beat even the strongest psis with ease. In Uncanny 277, the Warskrull had the combined powers of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle. He managed to subdue Storm temporarily, but Storm gave him a fight with willpower alone and he admitted that given time, she would be his hold. Xavier+Psylocke+Oracle= FAR more telepathic power than any single psi. Storm's will was on a growth constant growth curve. This was BEFORE she got the added electrical thing. You need to quite complaining about this as the Storm fans have very strong canonical basis.

4) Nobody is saying that Storm can manipulate magnetism better than Magneto. She has better control over electricity, yes. Also, people on these boards lose credibility when they try and make a big deal about Magneto and his supposed control over the EM spectrum. His primary power is magnetism, people. He's not powerful with anything else. He's EXTREMELY limited at best over related forces.

5) She can see people's actions before they make them. Read X-Trme X-Men issue 13. She can also control technology. Its stated in the issue. wink

6) I don't know where you got this claim from.

7) She can create winds MUCH stronger than a large nuke. When she redirected Sienna Blaze's blast, you have no idea what that would have taken. Her flying from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes on her winds would have generated wind forces hundreds of times stronger than a 100 mph hurricane as winds grow in force geometrically in relation to their velocity. He winds can level mountains. Don't get me started on this because I'll go to town on her winds.

8) I never stated that she can move from place a to b faster than Quicksilve physically. What I stated is Quicksilver is MUCH slower than the speed of though. He runs NOWHERE near that fast. Therefore, Storm can attack him way before he can cover the distance to get to her (and that is if she is on the ground and in his reach). Storm tends to stick to the air in battle and therefore well out of his reach.

9) You are correct. Storm is not a bad character. In fact, she's an awesome character.

10) Sersi can do this to Storm if STorm gives her the chance. The fight is a 50/50.

While I am going on and on about what Storm can do to Sersi, I am merely pointing out why she can win since everyone else is thinking Sersi anyway. I think the fight is a 50/50. The longer it goes, the more it swings in Storm's favor and she gets the advantage.

Rutog98

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Amnesiac Sersi turned a cat into a dragon, while she thought she was an ordinary human.
She can psi-scan the entire planet without the aid of any technology. She can locate Storm.
I edited my edit.
I'd like to see where Storm's been able to generate a million ton snowstorm in the time it takes Sersi to turn her into a frog.
She's shielded herself and her fellow Avengers from a universal obliteration. She's flown and blasted through hurricane gales. She can shield herself from Storm's attacks.
She's been disintegrated and reformed herself.

She's faster than Storm. She has incredibly high mastery of matter transmutation. And a host of other abilities.

Sersi wins every time. I won't be replying to you anymore because your delusions have gone beyond boring me. But you're welcome to continue spouting those delusions. smile

I brought up the millions of tons thing to show you what blizzards can do. Storm would not have to go anywhere near this extreme to go well beyond Sersi's limitations. Anyway, that was only the first scenerio. The second one had STorm distract Sersi with something clever at the very beginning and go directly for the wind attack which would take her out of the fight. The thing is, Sersi has limitations on mass that she can affect. (And Godzilla is much large than a dragon unless that one was Godzilla-sized proporions).

I think we will have to agree to disagree. 50/50. You're the delusional one, but it was fun regardless. Thanks. wink

the Darkone

You are so delusional it's not even funny. and all that writing^ is not even helpful what so ever, Sersi will turn Storm into a turnip miles away. Stop Rutog98 you are embarrassing yourself, go read some eternals comics and avengers comics also while yo are add it. Sersi is one of the most powerful beings/heroes on earth storm is not even in the top 20.

pr1983

Originally posted by Rutog98
The second one had STorm distract Sersi with something clever at the very beginning and go directly for the wind attack which would take her out of the fight.

who gave you a keyboard? honestly... they'll let anyone on the forums nowadays...

boriquaking55

This thread is a joke

DarkCrawler

Rutog's utter and pitiful ignorance of what the opposition says is starting to get boring.

Rutog98

Originally posted by pr1983
who gave you a keyboard? honestly... they'll let anyone on the forums nowadays...

Honestly, if you really want to get to it, if you had ready, set, go, it would come down to who is quicker on the draw: Storm with her winds, Sersi with her transmutation.

Personally, I wanted to avoid arguments where one party posts "so-and-so can strike faster than the other because in Issue X she did this in X amount of time." Then the other party counters with, "Oh yeah, well in Issue Y, so-and-so did this in Y amount of time." I tried to come up with creative tactics that STorm could use from the get go that were obviously VERY simple, yet effective and much easier than Sersi's powers to avoid the whole scenerio that I just outlined in this paragraph. You can argue that for days and not get anywhere as each party can come up with one issue after another.

The weaknesses I have come up with Sersi are canon and valid. Nothing has been posted to contradict them and Storm's unique powers can take full advantages of those weaknesses. Storm is MUCH more powerful than Sersi by volume. Anyone who disputes this is totally ignorant. Sersi has limits here that Storm can very easily exploit. That sea beast had far too much mass for Sersi to manipulate. She did not say that she may not be able to do it because of size. She stated that it was far too big and that it would kill her to even try.

The whole thing with the blizzard, I am not saying STorm can dump millions of tons of snow in an instant. However, compared to what the weather can generate in terms of mass (especially when Storm can make things happen instantly), that creature is VERY small. Storm doesn't even have to generate as much mass as Godzilla to go well beyond Sersi's limit and she can easily generate more snow in no time flat to equal far greater mass than that sea beast over the battlefield. In real life, it takes hours to get floods or to get any substantial snow. STorm has been able to generate instant floods even while indoors capable of flooding up to the ceiling. Check out the issue where the original Thunderbird dies. While you're at it, check out Uncanny 175 as well. She's been able to generate blizzard so fierce that it can stack up to 10 feet high or so in no time flat. She makes these kinds of storms over a battlefield outside where she has even more tools at her disposal than she did in those indoors instances and its going to be too much for Sersi to transmute. This is a lady who with a gesture altered weather over an entire hemisphere. Imagine what she can do over a battlefield that reaches maybe 3 square miles...

In regards to Sersi transmuting Storm from miles away, no way. Storm can block her thoughts from her and avoid detection. Xmarksthespot brought up Sersi globe scanning. That's nice, but when you have a telepath like Xavier who had a psi-battle with the Dark Phoenix that took place on every plane of reality at once or you have Shadow King who's power is the equal of Xavier's and at times much greater and STorm proving her merits against people with this kind of power...get my drift? HEck, when Xavier was inexperienced, SK was a master and has only grown since. He assaulted Xavier a thousand different ways at once in psi-combat while Xavier was just a novice. This was SK just toying around to when he did that. His skill far outstrips Xavier's. Xavier had a psychic rapport with a lady clear over in another galaxy that he never even met.

White Queen is a strong enough telepath to mind control an entire city. Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle.

CC made psis very powerful, however, he had checks and balances. He built up characters like Storm and Magneto to keep the telepaths in check.

Sersi's telepathy is a joke in a fight with Storm. It would be very stupid of her to waste the concentration on TK or TP in a fight against Storm. Storm's will is the strongest of the X-Men's and possibly the strongest on the planet. Don't mess with me here. This is canon. If you can hold onto your thoughts tightly, when telepaths scan for them, they won't be able to spot them or your psi-pattern. In other words, you are invisible to it. A number of X-Men have this mental dicipline. Nightcrawer and Gambit to name two. This is why even Nightcrawler was able to avoid Stryfe's detection of him. Storm's ability to withstand telepaths>Nightcrawler's ability to withstand telepaths. I have more ammo here. Leave it alone.

Storm outpowers Sersi by volume so much its not even funny. What I have asserted from the offset of this discussion is if Storm can get past the first second of the battle, then she has excellent chances at winning. The longer the battle rages, the less Sersi has a chance at winning. This fight isn't going to last very long regardless. Storm's winds can hit much harder than most extreme class 100 strength characters. Again, if you want to challenge me on this, be my guest. I can very easily quantify this for you. Its all in canon. Storm gets her winds up and Sersi will not be able to recover as those winds hit and spin perpetually and will be constantly slamming Sersi against objects in the area with godawful force. Storm can get her winds up instantly. The moment that happens, if SErsi has not been able to get to STorm yet, Storm wins. End of story. If you disagree, tell me how Sersi can counter the winds.

If you are trying to laugh about Storm's ability to create thudershocks that can destroy one's concentration, try this for size: She once knocked a superstrong character out with one thundercrack alone. She's FAR more powerful than distant thunder your hear in real life. I merely brought up Uncanny 179 to show how she used it to shatter the Brotherhood of Evil Mutant's concentration. I merely assert that this is a possible tactic she could use to catch Sersi off guard at the beginning of the fight to distract her.

I maintain the fight is 50/50.

You may disagree, but explain and cut the insults out as its childish.

Rutog98

I am by no means detracting from Sersi. The same cannot be said about you people and Storm, however. You are seriously underestimating the character and not giving her her full credit.

How anyone can say that Sersi beats Storm 10/10 easily is totally ridiculous.

It's 50/50

Symmetric Chaos

Does sersi NEED to have a psychic lock in order to transmute?

The answer is no since she can transmute inanimate objects so assuming bloodlust (which forum rules does assume) the moment she sees storm blam she reduces her to ash or transmutes her

Rutog98

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does sersi NEED to have a psychic lock in order to transmute?

The answer is no since she can transmute inanimate objects so assuming bloodlust (which forum rules does assume) the moment she sees storm blam she reduces her to ash or transmutes her

The reason I avoid that argument is then I (or another Storm fan) could argue the same with Storm attacking Sersi with her winds like this. It then degenerates into who can attack faster. Both sides are going to have issues which the character they support doing transmuting or winds really fast. Those debates can go on for pages and not go anywhere.

The point of the psychic lock angle was a way for Sersi to try and locate Storm through weather cover. She has to know where Ororo is to direct her transmuting powers.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Rutog98
The reason I avoid that argument is then I (or another Storm fan) could argue the same with Storm attacking Sersi with her winds like this. It then degenerates into who can attack faster. Both sides are going to have issues which the character they support doing transmuting or winds really fast. Those debates can go on for pages and not go anywhere.

I get your point here

Originally posted by Rutog98

The point of the psychic lock angle was a way for Sersi to try and locate Storm through weather cover. She has to know where Ororo is to direct her transmuting powers.

or she could just shotgun the area with cosmicly powered fire balls which would be individually lethal to Storm

Rutog98

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I get your point here

or she could just shotgun the area with cosmicly powered fire balls which would be individually lethal to Storm

Scott tried that in X-Men issue 60. Storm dodged every last blast effortlessly and in an enclosed space. This fight is happening outdoors. Sersi's chances are even less at hitting Storm and Ororo is going to be using her powers in return to hit with something that she won't miss with as her attacks are environmental and covers the battlefield.

Rutog98

Originally posted by pr1983
who gave you a keyboard? honestly... they'll let anyone on the forums nowadays...

Honestly, this is a very stupid post and a waste of bandwidth. Did I insult you? No. So why the personal attacks? We are debating comicbook/fictional characters here. We are here to have fun. I am enjoying this debate. I hope Xmarksthespot did as well. If you disagree with me on a point that I am asserting, then why don't you do the intelligent thing and quote it, question it, and ask me to explain my point further. Cut these childish antics out! Its really pathetic.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Rutog98
Scott tried that in X-Men issue 60. Storm dodged every last blast effortlessly and in an enclosed space. This fight is happening outdoors. Sersi's chances are even less at hitting Storm and Ororo is going to be using her powers in return to hit with something that she won't miss with as her attacks are environmental and covers the battlefield.

Sersi is a level five transmuter what prevents her from blanketing the area in a wave of destruction?

the Darkone

Originally posted by Rutog98
Honestly, this is a very stupid post and a waste of bandwidth. Did I insult you? No. So why the personal attacks? We are debating comicbook/fictional characters here. We are here to have fun. I am enjoying this debate. I hope Xmarksthespot did as well. If you disagree with me on a point that I am asserting, then why don't you do the intelligent thing and quote it, question it, and ask me to explain my point further. Cut these childish antics out! Its really pathetic.

No you are pathetic believing that storm will win with her winds and lighting bolts, do you know that Eternals have control of their molecules, they can increase their invulnerability to withstand anything. Sersi also has control all form of energy besides transmutation, sersi is the second most powerful Eternal next too Zuras who is a sky father level being. Sersi also has a powerful disintegration beam that can kill pretty much anything and she is a third level behind Zuras, Ikaris. Sersi can cast illusions she make her self to look like Black Panther and get close enough to disintegrate her a$$. Really sersi can attack storm with her shield up and obliterate storm from existences or transport her into space.

Sersi too many advantages over storm.

Sersi 100/100

Rutog98

Originally posted by the Darkone
No you are pathetic believing that storm will win with her winds and lighting bolts, do you know that Eternals have control of their molecules, they can increase their invulnerability to withstand anything. Sersi also has control all form of energy besides transmutation, sersi is the second most powerful Eternal next too Zuras who is a sky father level being. Sersi also has a powerful disintegration beam that can kill pretty much anything and she is a third level behind Zuras, Ikaris. Sersi can cast illusions she make her self to look like Black Panther and get close enough to disintegrate her a$$. Really sersi can attack storm with her shield up and obliterate storm from existences or transport her into space.

Sersi too many advantages over storm.

Sersi 100/100

Eternals have control over their atoms. Its better than molecules. Tell me where Sersi transmuted herself into something resilient enough to withstand punches from extreme class 100 strength characters without blinking? Sersi cannot transform herself to withstand anything as that would mean its impossible to hurt her. You and I both know that she can be hurt and she can be taken out of fights. Sorry. Try again.

Her beams are quite powerful, but she has to hit Storm with them first. There is your problem. Storm is not a stationary target.

I know you did not go with the whole illusion thing. Her illusion casting abilities won't work on a character like Storm who can see things for what they truly are. Ororo can percieve the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend them to her will. This includes the ability to percieve people that way. This won't work.

Really, with this post you have not refuted any of my arguments. You go on in a tirade about what Sersi can do but still are unable counter what I presented as very realistic strategy for Storm to use to win the fight.

Sersi is very powerful, but so is Storm. Every character has strengths and weaknesses. Sersi is not immune to this fact (neither is Ororo), but Storm has the assets at her disposal to take full advantages of Sersi's weaknesses.

The fight is a 50/50.

@Symmetric Chaos:Where has Sersi done something like that? Also, even if she could, Storm can deflect most assaults with her winds. This was even stated in the Beast Files. I need to know how powerful the wave is and everything so I can compare it to Sienna Blaze. Sienna Blaze has the most powerful blast I have ever seen from a less than Silver Surfer-level character and Storm has redirected her full power.

@ Everyone: Look, Storm is uber-powerful whether you guys like it or not. I get the feeling what is going on here is you have her put in a certain category in your minds and no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary of what you want, you don't want to accept it.

Here is something that may help you over this problem:

it was 1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)

The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...

"RB: Storm next...

Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.

RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?

Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.

Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."

Now this is me against (Rutog) speaking as the interview quote is over now: So Storm is a mortal with the power of a goddess. It is firmly established in canon that she has the potential to evolve into a true goddess and wield infinite power.

Rutog98

Oh, and Dark One, Storm is one of the most powerful beings on the planet. If Sersi is, so is Ororo. They just outpower each other in different way.

I don't think Storm's lightning is going to defeat Sersi. Its her winds. Energy assaults isn't going to do it. Brute concussive force is what's required.

In regards to SErsi's force-field, what has it withstood? She may control all forms of energy, but not in enough quantities to overpower Storm's elemental powers. Storm has a huge advantage over Sersi in terms of volume and quantity.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Rutog98

@Symmetric Chaos:Where has Sersi done something like that? Also, even if she could, Storm can deflect most assaults with her winds. This was even stated in the Beast Files. I need to know how powerful the wave is and everything so I can compare it to Sienna Blaze. Sienna Blaze has the most powerful blast I have ever seen from a less than Silver Surfer-level character and Storm has redirected her full power.

@ Everyone: Look, Storm is uber-powerful whether you guys like it or not. I get the feeling what is going on here is you have her put in a certain category in your minds and no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary of what you want, you don't want to accept it.

Here is something that may help you over this problem:

it was 1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)

The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...

"RB: Storm next...

Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.

RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?

Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.

Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."

Now this is me against (Rutog) speaking as the interview quote is over now: So Storm is a mortal with the power of a goddess. It is firmly established in canon that she has the potential to evolve into a true goddess and wield infinite power.

I wasn't aware Storm was a cosmic level being.

Seriously.

If that is true then Storm has a good shot.

inamilist

This is an honest to go real question, I'm not trying to provoke anything, but:

What about Storm vs Crystal? afaik they both wield the elements, and its not unheard of for a mutant to be as strong as an inhuman.

Honestly, I just don't know where to put them power wise, any help I would appreciate

The Weather God

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
making up powers doesn't count as arguing
cause eaethquakes with air the earth's crust
So this power is made up when we've already provided the scan of her doing it in a canon comic. confused

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/2866/thatearthquarkthing23qh.th.jpg

And it's Earthquakes not eaethquakes wink

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
resist high level psycics with ease

Not with ease but she has
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6580/telepathicresist4jz.th.jpg

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
create a dome of pressure that can stop any attack
Since when did i say it can stop any attack? Bring me proof..... I mentioned it could block a thunderclap which it can, because it's just a force of air pressure and loud sound.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
storm is not a bad character but her fans are straigth out of the nut house

You mean straight and i believe you need to take my name and my points out of your mouth and start reading and understanding my post correctly.

inamilist

Originally posted by The Weather God
So this power is made up when we've already provided the scan of her doing it in a canon comic. confused

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/2866/thatearthquarkthing23qh.th.jpg

And it's Earthquakes not eaethquakes wink

Not with ease but she has
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6580/telepathicresist4jz.th.jpg

awesome feats btw

id have some things to say, but whatever

Swanky-Tuna

Originally posted by Madvillain
Storm loses just about every battle on these forums. Poor Ororo. Poororo.
It's because the Storm crap has gotten so bad that kids have been making vs threads with characters they're sure will smash Storm. Meanwhile, the few Storm fans are trying their best to come up with ways their girl can pull off a win, sometimes with proof that may or may not be a little skewed, and trying to put it out there over the sound of the Storm haters patting each other on the butt in celebration of how clever they think they are.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does sersi NEED to have a psychic lock in order to transmute?

The answer is no since she can transmute inanimate objects so assuming bloodlust (which forum rules does assume) the moment she sees storm blam she reduces her to ash or transmutes her
The bloodlust rule also says the character stays within character so Sersi will have to normally engage in wanton murder. I don't know Sersi though so she might go Black Mage on people all the time.

leonidas

why exactly would the fight be over when the winds touch her . . .? you seem to be under the impression that somehow the winds are an instant kill.

and cyke's optic blasts move at the speed of light . . .? blink

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It's because the Storm crap has gotten so bad that kids have been making vs threads with characters they're sure will smash Storm. Meanwhile, the few Storm fans are trying their best to come up with ways their girl can pull off a win, sometimes with proof that may or may not be a little skewed, and trying to put it out there over the sound of the Storm haters patting each other on the butt in celebration of how clever they think they are.Another thread got off-topic. Rather than continuing off-topic in that thread I made this. And if someone thinks that Storm vs Sersi is a good fight, then I have no problem with making a Storm vs Sersi thread to discuss it. Though if you do, I don't think they've made it mandatory to post in threads you don't like.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
The bloodlust rule also says the character stays within character so Sersi will have to normally engage in wanton murder. I don't know Sersi though so she might go Black Mage on people all the time. Sersi regularly transmutes opponents.Originally posted by leonidas
why exactly would the fight be over when the winds touch her . . .? you seem to be under the impression that somehow the winds are an instant kill.http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4532/avengers360p24gj9.th.jpg
Discorporated:
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/2560/avengersv131004rougherjt3.th.jpg
A few pages later:
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/927/avengersv131020roughermf4.th.jpg
Protects herself and the Avengers:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8489/avengersv131421rougherfj7.th.jpghttp://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1125/avengersv131422rougherqc0.th.jpg
Originally posted by leonidas
and cyke's optic blasts move at the speed of light . . .? blink

They are in that they're extradimensional gravitons according to Mungi. Although it wasn't actually Cyclops firing them, it was Candra using Cyclops.

Symmetric Chaos

well based on those scans and the description of Storm as a god (albeit limited in some areas) this would end in a stalemate

Swanky-Tuna

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Another thread got off-topic. Rather than continuing off-topic in that thread I made this. And if someone thinks that Storm vs Sersi is a good fight, then I have no problem with making a Storm vs Sersi thread to discuss it. Though if you do, I don't think they've made it mandatory to post in threads you don't like.
But do you see how it has quickly degraded into another avenue for bashing Storm fans? It's just powerful annoying. I know I can just skip the threads but it's still going to be there. Festering. Like a wound on a board I thought was full of mostly okay people.

Is it fatal or just debilitating?

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Is it fatal or just debilitating?

which is worse?

or more importantly harder (in an x/10 format she'd start using easier techniques as the fight went on)

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
But do you see how it has quickly degraded into another avenue for bashing Storm fans? It's just powerful annoying. I know I can just skip the threads but it's still going to be there. Festering. Like a wound on a board I thought was full of mostly okay people.
I'll admit to having done it. Frankly I admit to doing it with other characters when they seemed overrated to me, Superboy Prime, Hulk, Wolverine, Iron Man. I didn't expect a rash of them though.

Fact of the matter is I like Storm as a character (although tbh I like her less now than I did since joining the forum), but I don't see why anyone needs her to beat Sersi or Bloodties Exodus, it doesn't lessen the character in any way to lose to more powerful characters or characters with cheap but instakills.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Is it fatal or just debilitating? Things and people she transmutes she can transmute back just as easily.
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8404/avengers24708wh4.th.jpg

Brian Oswald

Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm. While I agree Sersi could should have easily beaten Sue, there is a weakness Sersi has that Storm can very easily exploit. Sersi can only transmute a certain amount of mass without killing herself.

I posted this in anothe thread that prompted this thread (X-Factor vs. Storm thread):

In order for Sersi to transmute STorm into anything or punch her, she would have to be able to locate STorm first. Hence, I stated at the very beginning that if Storm can get around Ssersi transmuting her the first second of the battle, the battle becomes messy. If Storm can come up with something quick and clever to put Sersi off balance at the very beginning, Storm can steal Sersi's vision with weather cover and shield her mind from TP detection so that Sersi can't locate her to direct her transmuting attacks or energy blasts or punches anything. Her only hope would be to transmute all of the snow (which is being continually generated in vast quantities by nature compliments of our favorite weather goddess). That's too much mass.

For something clever at the very beginning, Storm could just instantly glow very bring to flash blind Sersi from the offset of the fight. Its simple and quick and should distract Sersi before she can transmute Storm as transmutation is something that much more complex than this. I know Storm can make herself resistant to probing, but prove to me that she can make herself totally immune to TP detection. Sersi just scanning the area and sensing her no expression

Swanky-Tuna

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Fact of the matter is I like Storm as a character (although tbh I like her less now than I did since joining the forum)
That seems to be the way goes on most comic forums. The thing that kind of depresses me about it is I think the only way to beat them is to amass more knowledge on the character, and at that point you're sick of the character already, than the fanbody and quelsh the flame like that.

Did this stem from that one thread where I think everyone agreed the team Storm was on would win but her fans insisted she'd have a significant role in the win? Possibly in spite of some overly powerful character on her team? I read the first post and immediately knew what was going to happen.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
which is worse?

or more importantly harder (in an x/10 format she'd start using easier techniques as the fight went on)
I guess it would depend. Dying doesn't sound fun but if you're fully conscious as a desk lamp that would suck too.

I was just curious.

leonidas

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They are in that they're extradimensional gravitons according to Mungi. Although it wasn't actually Cyclops firing them, it was Candra using Cyclops.

i don't take what they are made of, they still need to MOVE. why would a graviton -- extra dimensional or not -- be able to move >c . . .? so does that mean ANYONE who dodges them can dodge faster than light attacks? confused

and yeah, x, your scans basically said the same thing i was thinking . . .

btw, as one who has complete mastery over her atomic structure, why couldn't sersi simply turn intangible and allow the 'lethal' winds to pass through her?

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't take what they are made of, they still need to MOVE. why would a graviton -- extra dimensional or not -- be able to move >c . . .? so does that mean ANYONE who dodges them can dodge faster than light attacks? confused

There was a bit of debate about this but I think from what people could find gravitons are massless subatomic particles which apparently move at c. Not a physicist so really don't know.

And there's also been debate about the other point, Scoobs made a thread about it. No imo dodging a laser or a gun or a Cyclops' blast does not give a character FTL reflexes. It just means aim isn't infallible. And people can anticipate things.
Originally posted by leonidas
and yeah, x, your scans basically said the same thing i was thinking . . .

btw, as one who has complete mastery over her atomic structure, why couldn't sersi simply turn intangible and allow the 'lethal' winds to pass through her? Or just teleport away. For some reason every bio I read about Eternals and teleportation say they don't like doing it and it disorientates them, yet every time I've seen Sersi, Ikaris, etc teleport they do so without any troubles.

ExodusCloak

He still has to think in order to psionically control his visor. And then there's the whole issue with Candra mind controlling him when she dodged his blasts. It seemed as if his trigonometry went out the window.

Speaking of the Visor....
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2691/xmen190005qg7.jpg

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Brian Oswald
I know Storm can make herself resistant to probing, but prove to me that she can make herself totally immune to TP detection. Sersi just scanning the area and sensing her no expression

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9236/avengersv131522rougherjy7.th.jpg

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That seems to be the way goes on most comic forums. The thing that kind of depresses me about it is I think the only way to beat them is to amass more knowledge on the character, and at that point you're sick of the character already, than the fanbody and quelsh the flame like that.

Did this stem from that one thread where I think everyone agreed the team Storm was on would win but her fans insisted she'd have a significant role in the win? Possibly in spite of some overly powerful character on her team? I read the first post and immediately knew what was going to happen. I'm not sure which thread you're referring, was the team Thor/Magneto and Storm maybe?
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I guess it would depend. Dying doesn't sound fun but if you're fully conscious as a desk lamp that would suck too.

I was just curious. I don't think they'd be conscious, it'd sort of be like a black out I suppose.

Brian Oswald

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9236/avengersv131522rougherjy7.th.jpg ha, sweet

leonidas

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There was a bit of debate about this but I think from what people could find gravitons are massless subatomic particles which apparently move at c. Not a physicist so really don't know.

me either, but unless you believe that the speed of light is not a universal constant, permittivity and permeability (which deal with a particle's ability to transmit and respond to an electric field -- both of which can take place at no more than the speed of light -- they do not allow the transfer of info faster than that . . .) limit the speed of a graviton to c. erm

factor in as exodus mentioned the time it takes for thought to become action, action to react with the visor, to moment it takes scott to aim . . .

WWAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY the hell slower than c . . .

well . . . of course it doesn't . . . confused

or that. and they tend not to like it, but sersi is different -- her mastery is in matter manipulation. teleporting has never bothered her and i have nearly all of her appearances.

Grimm22

How to beat Storm:

1. Get a gun

2. Load it

3. Aim

4. Fire

End no expression

leonidas

Originally posted by Grimm22
How to beat Storm:

1. Get a gun

2. Load it

3. Aim

4. Fire

End no expression

deathstroke takes her 10/10 with prep. wink

Grimm22

Originally posted by leonidas
deathstroke takes her 10/10 with prep. wink

Me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halle Berry wink

Beta Ray Howard

Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.
Storm crushes her, with an Earthquake. shifty

TEH AIER PERESSUR!

Beta Ray Howard

Originally posted by Grimm22
How to beat Storm:

1. Get a gun

2. Load it

3. Aim

4. Fire

End no expression

Or.

1. Get a piece of concrete

2. Throw it at her

ExtraMision5555

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Anyone who votes against Storm is a racist.

Storm loses. laughing

olympian

Sersi, obviously.

Yeah, yeah "Hudlin". Cry me a river.

RisingStorm

Then I hope people would stop it. It just makes this forum a little less Storm friendly for me now. I joined this forum because I thought that there are good debates here, then some people (I don't wanna mention names) pop up and stoop down to some fanboys level and make it so annoying for other fans. I love Storm, but this forum is murdering the sh*t out of her. Just ignore the fanboys. They'll always be there for any character.

Ouallada

Wow oh wow. Storm being able to split evenly with Sersi? Not trying to knock on Storm here, but it is possible for her to be an enjoyable character without being able to win against opponents obviously out of her league, and arguments do not need to be made for victories against such opponents. Next thing we know, Wolverine is gonna be placed in a fight with Thanos. Oh damn, that already happened. sick

Rutog98

Originally posted by inamilist
This is an honest to go real question, I'm not trying to provoke anything, but:

What about Storm vs Crystal? afaik they both wield the elements, and its not unheard of for a mutant to be as strong as an inhuman.

Honestly, I just don't know where to put them power wise, any help I would appreciate

Storm is much stronger than Crystal. She can affect a much greater volume and she can generate much stronger elemental assaults.

Rutog98

The way it works, if one has the mental dicipline to hold onto their thoughts, the telepthas can't pick up on it or your psi-patterns. Psylocke, enhanced by Cerebro, was unable to locate Storm when probing for her or make any sort of contact with Storm. Storm blocked her out. Nightcrawler, who has substantially less mental defenses/willpower than Ororo, was able to avoid detection from Stryfe.

Rutog98

Originally posted by leonidas
why exactly would the fight be over when the winds touch her . . .? you seem to be under the impression that somehow the winds are an instant kill.

and cyke's optic blasts move at the speed of light . . .? blink

The fight would be over when the winds touch her because Sersi has no defense against them. When those winds hit, they will continue to hit and spin Sersi around at extreme velocities (which means she can concentrate/recover to bring her powers to bear against Storm) and slam her against everything around (mountainsides, the ground, trees, etc) and pummel her with objects like boulders travelling at high velocity until Sersi is unconscious.

In regards to the Crystal/Sersi thing, Crystal's winds are a gentle breeze compared to what Storm dishes out on many occassions. Crystal's elemental powers are not strong enough to hurt Sersi at all, but that is no argument against Storm, a much more powerful character.

In regards to X-Men issue 60 with Storm and Cyclops, Candra was not controlling his optic blasts. She was mind controlling him. She's a psi. She merely "told" him to attack Storm. So his skills and all were still at his disposal. He merely turned them against Storm. They would not have been diminished.

the Darkone

Originally posted by Rutog98
The fight would be over when the winds touch her because Sersi has no defense against them. When those winds hit, they will continue to hit and spin Sersi around at extreme velocities (which means she can concentrate/recover to bring her powers to bear against Storm) and slam her against everything around (mountainsides, the ground, trees, etc) and pummel her with objects like boulders travelling at high velocity until Sersi is unconscious.

In regards to the Crystal/Sersi thing, Crystal's winds are a gentle breeze compared to what Storm dishes out on many occassions. Crystal's elemental powers are not strong enough to hurt Sersi at all, but that is no argument against Storm, a much more powerful character.

In regards to X-Men issue 60 with Storm and Cyclops, Candra was not controlling his optic blasts. She was mind controlling him. She's a psi. She merely "told" him to attack Storm. So his skills and all were still at his disposal. He merely turned them against Storm. They would not have been diminished.

you are sad

soul winds are not going to affect sersi at all since eternals can teleport or teleport others anywhere. Get it through your child like mind Sersi is so far above storm it's not even funny, you are making a fool of yourself. Sersi changes storm into jello miles away, or she teleports storm into outerspace.

celestialdemon

Assuming that Storm's all-powerful winds and snow can even hurt Sersi, what's to stop Sersi from just flying above the clouds? laughing

Rutog98

Okay. I think everyone can read this thread for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I don't think there is anything left to say. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Beta Ray Howard

Originally posted by Rutog98
Okay. I think everyone can read this thread for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I don't think there is anything left to say. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Here's my conclusion.

Sersi picks up a piece of concrete and KTFOes her.

or she utilizes any other way that she could easily destroy her. Sersi wins.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Rutog98
In regards to X-Men issue 60 with Storm and Cyclops, Candra was not controlling his optic blasts. She was mind controlling him. She's a psi. She merely "told" him to attack Storm. So his skills and all were still at his disposal. He merely turned them against Storm. They would not have been diminished.

No one said she was manipulating the optic blasts themselves, she was controlling his mind and therefore controlling his actions(aim) and power. She was using him as her mind puppet and he attacked Storm like the mindless puppet he was meant to be...he did not have any control of his actions it was all down to Candra. She was the one controlling him and therefore controlling where and how he aimed hence the reason why his attack on Storm seemed as if an amateur was using his power. His acquired skill in marksmanship as you put it was not being utilized because his mind was not consciously in charge of his body at that period in time.

So yes she did tell him to attack Storm, but she had to mentally control his body in order to do so. Hence the mind control.

In any event the attack itself does not occur at light speed as his power itself is governed by thought and the speed at which his servos operates which is considerably slower then the speed of light. Add Candra's inexperience with Scotts powers and her bad marksmanship and you to may be able to dodge his optic blasts.

The Fake Macoy

Winds are going to stop an Eternal? Also, these so called winds are going to be faster than Sersi turning Storm into a dog?

ExodusCloak

Here are the scans for reference sake...see he's not even aware of what happened and Candra's mind is the only one present when she attacks Storm. Therefore there's she's only utilizing his body as a vessel. Storm even used the word "possessed" to describe the situation further showing that it was Candra controlling Scotts body.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1479/xmen06002vi4.th.jpghttp://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7798/xmen06004qd3.th.jpghttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4687/xmen06005qv1.th.jpg

leonidas

nice ec.

i think the decision is simple -- if you believe strong winds can stop sersi from forming a thought/teleporting/becoming immaterial, then, i guess you think storm may have a chance.

otherwise . . .

Ouallada

Originally posted by leonidas
nice ec. thumb up

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Ouallada
I'm going with the otherwise part.

laughing out loud

Rutog98

Originally posted by leonidas
nice ec. thumb up

i think the decision is simple -- if you believe strong winds can stop sersi from forming a thought/teleporting/becoming immaterial, then, i guess you think storm may have a chance.

otherwise . . .

I still believe that it was a mental possession. Candra is no Shadow King. Regardless, whichever it was, she would have had access to Scott's memories and skills and all and those blasts still moved at the speed of light.

To get to your other points: Storm has used her winds to keep people from concentrating to use their power. This has happened with Jean, Rogue and Dazzler.

Teleporting and becoming immaterial would only be ways for Sersi to try and tie the fight (Storm has been able to hurt immaterial characters before). The root problem remains that Sersi has no way of getting to Storm through the blizzard.

the Darkone

^ are you smoking. That's jean,rogue and dazzler, Sersi is over 5000 years old please if that's all you can come up with is storm winds are going to affect Sersi you need to burned all your comics. Sersi will change Storm into pumpkin pie miles away, or disintegrate her a$$ winds don't mean sh** when you are turned into a pumpkin patch.

2damnloud

Must be alot kids on this forum. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Alot of logical fallacies and name-calling get thrown around on here

At least show how her powers would work to counteract Storm's, goddamn!

Atleast Rutgo comes up with scenarios and applies their powers. I thought that's the way this goes.

Some of you isolate people's feats based on sheer display of power and don't take into account how it is applicable to another character's power.

"Sersi's 5,000 years old so she wins" What type of stupid shyt is that??? laughing

Apply it to the fight.

Grimm22

Sersi = 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more powerful than Storm no expression

Get over yourself

2damnloud

Apply it to the fight!! roll eyes (sarcastic)

Explain why and how in a scenario which encompasses their powers.

Grimm22

Because Storm can't hurt Sersi and Sersi can kill Storm without a second thought no expression

2damnloud

I guess I put forth a much too complicated request for the teensy, weensy, wittle baby laughing

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by 2damnloud

At least show how her powers would work to counteract Storm's, goddamn!

Well lets see she can control every atom in her body so I suppose she could be intagible if she wanted. (that makes the winds less than useless)

Storms other powers are useless agianst Sersi for the same reason

xmarksthespot

There's no need to try and engineer elaborate scenarios for Sersi to win. She's the only living fifth level adept at matter transmutation of the Eternals, a race of beings who can transmute matter. She can and has transmuted things and people at a whim. She's been doing it for thousands and thousands of years.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3618/avengersannual1820sb3.th.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8666/avengers362p21hn5.th.jpghttp://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9005/avengers362p22je9.th.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1869/eternals1504fc0.th.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/629/thor28412ll3.th.jpg
Even with amnesia:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4769/eternals04oroboros007wc3.th.jpg

There is no prep for either side. Fight starts, Storm gets transmuted.

xmarksthespot

Alternatively if you really want some sort of scenario, Sersi can do this:
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9139/198512eternalsv1003p03ne0.th.jpg
And follow it up with this:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1200/p16fr2.th.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/596/p17sa2.th.jpg
Or just make the destination for teleportation inside a solid object.

Or she could start the fight with her TK:
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4152/avengers360p23bh2.th.jpg
Or eyebeams:
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/2527/uncannyxmen30705jd1.th.jpg

Oh no wait... a strong wind is going to just blow her over...
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/7253/uncannyxmen3070607gh6.th.jpg
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/2770/uncannyxmen30708qq7.th.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1363/uncannyxmen3071314yb6.th.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4977/uncannyxmen30715lk9.th.jpg
Even though city crushing TK and powerful TP left her essentially unharmed and she can reform from being discorporated.

leonidas

Originally posted by Rutog98
I still believe that it was a mental possession. Candra is no Shadow King. Regardless, whichever it was, she would have had access to Scott's memories and skills and all and those blasts still moved at the speed of light.

To get to your other points: Storm has used her winds to keep people from concentrating to use their power. This has happened with Jean, Rogue and Dazzler.

Teleporting and becoming immaterial would only be ways for Sersi to try and tie the fight (Storm has been able to hurt immaterial characters before). The root problem remains that Sersi has no way of getting to Storm through the blizzard.

where is your proof the beams moves at light speed . . .?

does that mean ANYONE who has dodged the beams has ftl reflexes . . .?

who has storm affected who was immaterial? anyway, they start in sight of each other. winds start, sersi turns immaterial and they pass through her. before storm can fashion a second attack, storm is a frog.

2damnloud

Strom has controlled matter on a subatomic level--once she created a bathing suit out of nothing, metal ringlette on it an all.

Educate me on Sersi.

Does her transmutation power work by encantation, telekenetically, shooting power blast at people??? Is she re-arranging the atomic structure??

Could she for instance be able to transmutate storm if storm saturates herself(her body, her atoms) with enough electric/electromagnetic energy???

Could that cause intereference??

Swanky-Tuna

Does Storm create clothes often? If not, I'm going to start saying Juggernaut can shrink people.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Strom has controlled matter on a subatomic level--once she created a bathing suit out of nothing, metal ringlette on it an all.

hysterical

scan please (partly cause I think you're joking and partly cause I want to she Storm is a swimsuit)

Originally posted by 2damnloud

Educate me on Sersi.

Does her transmutation power work by encantation, telekenetically, shooting power blast at people??? Is she re-arranging the atomic structure??

Could she for instance be able to transmutate storm if storm saturates herself(her body, her atoms) with enough electric/electromagnetic energy???

Could that cause intereference??

I believe it is just force of will.

She can rearrange matter on the atomic level even when her body has been tottaly destroyed.

I doudt the electricity would disrupt her power.

2damnloud

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/7398/molecularclothing9rg.jpg

xmarksthespot

That's nice, but I've seen it. Never seen it happen again though.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/299/eternal0808td2.jpg

RSSR

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
First off, when has Storm ever glowed incandescent to brighter than the sun?
Second, why would Sersi be doing nothing to protect herself from this?
Third, matter transmutation may be complex, but Sersi with her thousands of years of experience can and does transmute matter with ease.
Fourth Sersi still wouldn't be blind, she's penetrated Adam Warlock's psychic defences, Storm being resistant to telepathy does not make her immune or invisible to it.

And finally Sersi can transmute and manipulate matter on a large scale "without killing herself".
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3679/p19iy5.th.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7954/p20ek1.th.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2600/p21qz9.th.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8397/avengers373p22mp4.th.jpg

Not that she even needs to, to win this.

Wow, glancing at all of Sersi's feats, somtimes I don't know who is the most powerful Avenger: Thor or her.

RSSR

Well, Dr. Strange is now an Avenger, and The Sentry is still a relative unknown....

the Darkone

Originally posted by 2damnloud
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/7398/molecularclothing9rg.jpg

^^ that ain't sh**. Sersi transmutation powers are second only too Molecule Man. Sersi powers are off the scale, Sersi will encase Storm in pisonic force shield than transport storm a$$ to space. Sersi doesn't need no spells,incantation she thinks it happens. Even Ikaris considers her the second most powerful eternal on earth ans she is one of the most powerful beings on the planet out right.

Swanky-Tuna

Originally posted by 2damnloud
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/7398/molecularclothing9rg.jpg
So it's just the one time?

So if I said Juggernaut could shoot Storm out of the sky with magic bolts you'd have no problem with it?

Ouallada

Why is this thread still going on? For storm to even stand a chance, she needs to:

-Make herself invisible to Sersi based on what the eyes can or cannot perceive
-Ensure that Sersi stays tangible/be able to hit Sersi when she is intangible
-React to Sersi's teleportation
-Mentally cloak herself from Sersi
-Create weather conditions of a large enough volume that Sersi has problems manipulating.
-Create said weather conditions fast enough, meaning in a split second.
-Ensure that said weather conditions deal enough damage to knock out a being that can be disintegrated and survive.
-Resist telepathy from Sersi

And all in a split second.

Sersi needs to:

-Turn Storm into a bug
-Step on bug
-Have coffee

One combatant needs a complicated series of events to happen without one cog screwing up, and to happen almost simultaneously. One needs to step on a bug. Obviously, the one who steps on the bug wins 10/10.

Jyppe

Originally posted by Rutog98
The way it works, if one has the mental dicipline to hold onto their thoughts, the telepthas can't pick up on it or your psi-patterns. Psylocke, enhanced by Cerebro, was unable to locate Storm when probing for her or make any sort of contact with Storm. Storm blocked her out. Nightcrawler, who has substantially less mental defenses/willpower than Ororo, was able to avoid detection from Stryfe.

Eh? I have a comic where Psylocke doesn't have any problems locating and tracking Strom. True, Storm locks her out and refuses not to communicate via telapathy,(Psylocke was still able to detect her emotions etc) but I doubt Psylocke was forcefully trying to probe her. That's not what team mates do. And it might have hurt Storm.

leonidas

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Strom has controlled matter on a subatomic level--once she created a bathing suit out of nothing, metal ringlette on it an all.

Educate me on Sersi.

Does her transmutation power work by encantation, telekenetically, shooting power blast at people??? Is she re-arranging the atomic structure??

Could she for instance be able to transmutate storm if storm saturates herself(her body, her atoms) with enough electric/electromagnetic energy???

Could that cause intereference??

i've no explanation for the swimsuit change . . . i don't call PIS often, but, if it's never happened before or since . . . erm

crystal has done almost the exact same thing in the past, but i don't think anyone is gonna say she has atomic control of matter . . .

in any event, even ALLOWING for that demonstration, it makes no difference -- her atomic control would be less than meaningless in this battle.

sersi's powers -- like the powers of all eternals -- are cosmic in origin. she simply used her 1000s of years of life to focus on her transmuting abilities. hence, she is the greatest among them in that area -- by far. there is no 'blast' required and i don't see how any kind of additional charge could interfere with her ability to transmute storm. she doesn't NEED to simply transmute -- she has massive energy projection as well. transmutation is simply the easiest for her. she could also simply erect a force field to protect her from whatever storm can throw at her, and even if she DOES somehow lose sight of storm her field would protect her from harm while she searched. i also don't really get how storm would prevent sersi from finding her -- she isn't trying to read storm's mind or take control -- she's simply trying to locate her. sersi should be able to sense any resistance and that alone should be enough to tell sersi where storm is.

OneDumbG0

Sersi can make forcefields? >.>

Seriously tho... I think people are starting to inflate Sersi's character. I mean... I know she transmutes matter, but she ain't no Silver Surfer.

For that matter, Storm ain't no Sersi either...

Symmetric Chaos

Well she can project energy. If she can maintain that for an extended period of time then she can create a force field.

leonidas

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sersi can make forcefields? >.>

Seriously tho... I think people are starting to inflate Sersi's character. I mean... I know she transmutes matter, but she ain't no Silver Surfer.

For that matter, Storm ain't no Sersi either...

never claimed she was. smile

the scale of ss's power AND his durability are far and away beyond sersi's.

she IS basically a low level ss though, (who has shown a much greater ability to transmute organic matter than ss has), AND is also a very powerful telekinetic.

and that is more than enough to take out storm.

Ouallada

^With her being an eternal, I would say she is not outclassed by that much in the durability department, We all know what eternals can take. Not to say that SS is not more durable, though, as he has some great feats in that department.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Ouallada
^With her being an eternal, I would say she is not outclassed by that much in the durability department, We all know what eternals can take. Not to say that SS is not more durable, though, as he has some great feats in that department.

Sersi was reduced to component molecules/atoms and came back becasue she willed it. I'd say she has near SS durability but not SS offense.

2damnloud

I read on wikipedia that Seris has trouble with sub-atomic matter, that's why I brouth up the Electrical/electromagnetic saturation with regards to storm.

Could it be written that storm could somehow hold her atomic structure together by way of the forces inside her and the forces she has munipulated and channeled through her body.

The fight starts, Sersi goes to transmutate storm, instantly a lightning bolt shoots out of the sky and engrosses storm and the area in an electromagnetic feild impeding Sersi from matter munipution because of all the electromagnetic energy and electron intereference.

Atoms are held together by electromagnetic feilds.

That's what I think she did to make that bathingsuit-- She rearranged some of the electrons in the air thus munipulating the atoms and rearanging them to make a detailed bathing suit. It wasn't unstable molecules because she was but-booty naked.

Ouallada

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sersi was reduced to component molecules/atoms and came back becasue she willed it. I'd say she has near SS durability but not SS offense.

I completely agree with this. That was the point of my previous post.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by 2damnloud

Could it be written that storm could somehow hold her atomic structure together by way of the forces inside her and the forces she has munipulated and channeled through her body.

The fight starts, Sersi goes to transmutate storm, instantly a lightning bolt shoots out of the sky and engrosses storm and the area in an electromagnetic feild impeding Sersi from matter munipution because of all the electromagnetic energy and electron intereference.

I don't think EM disrupts Sersi's powers but I'm not an expert.

Originally posted by 2damnloud

Atoms are held together by electromagnetic feilds.

RLY I thought it was the strong and weak nuclear forces (nuclear force>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EM)

Molecules are held together by electromagnetism

Originally posted by 2damnloud

That's what I think she did to make that bathingsuit-- She rearranged some of the electrons in the air thus munipulating the atoms and rearanging them to make a detailed bathing suit. It wasn't unstable molecules because she was but-booty naked.

the bathing suit is about as vaild as the "table incident" for Apoc

Originally posted by Ouallada
I completely agree with this. That was the point of my previous post.

I just wanted to give an example.

2damnloud

My bad, that's what I meant smart

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by 2damnloud
My bad, that's what I meant smart

well except cosmics I don't think anyone in Marvel or DC can tear apart atoms w/o magic or tech

leonidas

em holds atoms and molecules together. strong holds protons together in the nucleus. sersi can and has shown the ability to control energy at the subatomic level, so even if storm can somehow try and counter sersi's transmutation powers with an energy burst, i doubt it would matter. sersi's control is simply>storm's.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5062/sersi1td1.th.jpg

in any event, there has never been any evidence that energy interferes in any way with sersi's powers. even allowing for the chance that it somehow DID interfere, it would only be a momentary solution for storm -- i see no logical way to say she could continually resist transmutation or simply a high energy barrage.

as far as the winds effectiveness -- here is sersi (who flies psionically) slipping into then OUT of the grip of a BLACK HOLE to fetch crystal . . .

black hole forces just slightly>winds storm can create. embarrasment

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/3989/sersi2ty6.th.jpg

as regards her durability -- she has no where near the feats ss has -- she also always wears a suit in space. to KILL her may prove as difficult as it would be to kill ss. to ko her is no feats, no where NEAR as difficult. difficult compared to most, but NOT compared to ss.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by leonidas
she also always wears a suit in spaceNot quite true:
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3558/avengers34512fa4.th.jpg
But yeah, her durability is nowhere near SS. Her "killability" might be nearish though.

inamilist

EM is responsable for kinetic movement and other transfers of energy at a sub atomic level wink

anyhoo............

Storm wins shifty

batdude123

Originally posted by inamilist
Storm wins shifty

Yeah.

Electricity in her brain and everything.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by leonidas

as regards her durability -- she has no where near the feats ss has -- she also always wears a suit in space. to KILL her may prove as difficult as it would be to kill ss. to ko her is no feats, no where NEAR as difficult. difficult compared to most, but NOT compared to ss.

I meant killability (Ya happy?)

besides how can you KO a person who can reform when her body has been destroyed?

leonidas

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I meant killability (Ya happy?)

besides how can you KO a person who can reform when her body has been destroyed?

good catch, x. wink

sym. chaos: i'm actually pretty ambivalent about what you were trying to say. it's perfectly fine by me if it's your opinion that their respective durability is close. the point is way off topic. i could show a couple scans of her being ko'd by things that would . . . not do much to ss. but it took a lot for me to drag my ass to my books and post the ones i did, so i shall pass. besides, like i said, it's off-topic and may end up doing more harm in this thread than good . . . straight fact is feat-wise, her durability is no where even CLOSE to ss's. if you choose to pursue the issue, we could start a ss vs sersi thread (it's been done and i've had a hand in it . . .) i've no problem with that. start off with the best durability feats you can find for her, and i'll get a couple for ss and we'll hash it out. smile

bottomline -- sersi wins this fight without much trouble, imo, regardless of what storm tries to do.

Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by leonidas
good catch, x. wink

bottomline -- sersi wins this fight without much trouble, imo, regardless of what storm tries to do.

smile

What you have to realize is that I don't read many comics (unless you count manga). I go mainly off scans I've seen here and stats from wiki.

OneDumbG0

Personally, I don't think Sersi's transmutation would matter much in a fight. When has she actually transmutated an opponent? For that matter, Surfer doesn't really do this either to opponents, so to me, such abilities really matter little in hypothetical fights. I suppose my opinion might change if someone shows a scan of Sersi fighting an opponent and in a panel says, "Aw f*ck this. Transmutation into quarters! *Poof!* Now I can fill that parking meter..."

Sersi's energy projection and strength and speed are her main weapons and as an Eternal, I'd venture to say she's above Ms. Marvel, but not quite near Wonder Woman levels. But that's a tall order for Storm. Someone make another Sersi thread. This one's pretty conclusive.

leonidas

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
smile

What you have to realize is that I don't read many comics (unless you count manga). I go mainly off scans I've seen here and stats from wiki.

that's cool. this forum is (at times!) a great place to learn.

thumb up

leonidas

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Personally, I don't think Sersi's transmutation would matter much in a fight. When has she actually transmutated an opponent? For that matter, Surfer doesn't really do this either to opponents, so to me, such abilities really matter little in hypothetical fights. I suppose my opinion might change if someone shows a scan of Sersi fighting an opponent and in a panel says, "Aw f*ck this. Transmutation into quarters! *Poof!* Now I can fill that parking meter..."

Sersi's energy projection and strength and speed are her main weapons and as an Eternal, I'd venture to say she's above Ms. Marvel, but not quite near Wonder Woman levels. But that's a tall order for Storm. Someone make another Sersi thread. This one's pretty conclusive.

the scan already exists in this thread of her changing thor into a frog . . .

she's also changed an intangible vision into glass or stone, changed eternals into DEVIANTS . . .

she HAS used her transmutation many times on opponents in battles. erm

as i said long ago though, even WITHOUT that ability, she still wins, imo.

the Darkone

Originally posted by leonidas
the scan already exists in this thread of her changing thor into a frog . . .

she's also changed an intangible vision into glass or stone, changed eternals into DEVIANTS . . .

she HAS used her transmutation many times on opponents in battles. erm

as i said long ago though, even WITHOUT that ability, she still wins, imo.

Sersi will turn Storm into a toilet and you know what happens after that wink

.
Sersi pulls out her Immortal Hercules Punch and takes off Storm's head.

Sersi 100/100

OneDumbG0

as i said long ago though, even WITHOUT that ability, she still wins, imo. I dont see the Thor turned into a frog scan you're referring to. I see mention of it, but no scan. When did this happen? I'm pretty sure Loki was the one who turned Thor into a frog, not Sersi. I do see some of the scans you are referring to. Hulk and Vision transmutations were impressive, although I don't think such a trick would work on the former anymore and most other times were against what appeared to be silly humans. I dimly remember the Vision one, but I never read that Hulk one. Looks old. Well, if you guys think she often resorts to actually transmutating opponents, then more power to you. BTW, JRJR kinda draws a hot Sersi, ruff. Maybe I should check out that series.

Rutog98

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well lets see she can control every atom in her body so I suppose she could be intagible if she wanted. (that makes the winds less than useless)

Storms other powers are useless agianst Sersi for the same reason

Storm can hurt intangible characters with electricity. Sersi may become vulnerable to her lightning if in an intangible state.

You know, there is a way for Storm to win: She creates her blizzard. Sersi can't find her so she is forced to scan for her. Ororo allows SErsi to feel her thoughts. She wants that because as soon as Sersi touches Ororo's mind, Storm fries her brain and knocks her out of the fight. She pulled this on Bogan, a much more powerful psi than Sersi in "Schism." She wanted him to attack/touch her mind so she could fry him out.
Storm's goal is to force Sersi to use her TP.

So again, saying that Sersi is immune to Storm's powers doesn't work. Ororo has ways .

I called this fight a 50/50 because Sersi has weaknesses unique to her that Storm's powers can really play up on. Also, Storm has the means to hurt Sersi badly enough to take her out of the fight.

Has Sersi shown that she is immune to winds while intangible? Vision turns intangible and the winds move him. That's how he flies.

Rutog98

Originally posted by Jyppe
Eh? I have a comic where Psylocke doesn't have any problems locating and tracking Strom. True, Storm locks her out and refuses not to communicate via telapathy,(Psylocke was still able to detect her emotions etc) but I doubt Psylocke was forcefully trying to probe her. That's not what team mates do. And it might have hurt Storm.

What you are saying about Psylokce possibly hurting Storm doesn't make sense canonically. X-Men have been able to hide their thoughts from Stryfe when he was scanning for them. It did not hurt them at all.

Rutog98

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I read on wikipedia that Seris has trouble with sub-atomic matter, that's why I brouth up the Electrical/electromagnetic saturation with regards to storm.

Could it be written that storm could somehow hold her atomic structure together by way of the forces inside her and the forces she has munipulated and channeled through her body.

The fight starts, Sersi goes to transmutate storm, instantly a lightning bolt shoots out of the sky and engrosses storm and the area in an electromagnetic feild impeding Sersi from matter munipution because of all the electromagnetic energy and electron intereference.

Atoms are held together by electromagnetic feilds.

That's what I think she did to make that bathingsuit-- She rearranged some of the electrons in the air thus munipulating the atoms and rearanging them to make a detailed bathing suit. It wasn't unstable molecules because she was but-booty naked.

I had not thought of this. This is very plausible. There was one issue where the Avengers were trapped in a force-field. It was during a huge 20-issue arc or something. Seris managed to avoid capture by using an illusion to appear like one of the aliens. She was unable to use her transmutation powers through an energy field to try and free the captured Avergs trapped inside the field. (I think she wanted to transmute the manacles or something that held their powers in check.) I wish I had my Avenger comics with me! They may have said what type of energy the field was. Anyway, this is clever. My memory on all the details of this is rusty. This is a very clever scenerio from 2DL.

Rutog98

Originally posted by Ouallada
Why is this thread still going on? For storm to even stand a chance, she needs to:

-Make herself invisible to Sersi based on what the eyes can or cannot perceive
-Ensure that Sersi stays tangible/be able to hit Sersi when she is intangible
-React to Sersi's teleportation
-Mentally cloak herself from Sersi
-Create weather conditions of a large enough volume that Sersi has problems manipulating.
-Create said weather conditions fast enough, meaning in a split second.
-Ensure that said weather conditions deal enough damage to knock out a being that can be disintegrated and survive.
-Resist telepathy from Sersi

And all in a split second.

Sersi needs to:

-Turn Storm into a bug
-Step on bug
-Have coffee

One combatant needs a complicated series of events to happen without one cog screwing up, and to happen almost simultaneously. One needs to step on a bug. Obviously, the one who steps on the bug wins 10/10.

You put too much in that list for Storm. She does not have to do all of that in a split second. Sersi's state of tangibility is not even an issue here. Neither is her teleportation or anything.

Look, Storm can accomplish all she needs to accomplish is stealing vision from Sersi and creating too much volume for her. By creating her blizzard, she does everything she needs to do to prevent Sersi from getting to her. She can very easily generate that kind of mass as its nothing for nature to do that. You don't see that Sersi's powers is extremely limited where Storm is vastly powerful where mass is concerned.

Becoming invisible to Sersi's telepathy is an automatic thing for someone like Storm. She doesn't even have to use her powers for this. Another thing Storm could do is catch Sersi off guard with an thunderclap/sound attack or a surprise mini blizzard in the face. by the time Sersi recovers from the surprise, she looks up and Storm has moved herself out of Sersi's vision while blocking her thoughts. STorm can generate her blizzard at this point or generate it while Sersi is recovering and still not be where she was prior to her initial attack to throw Sersi off balance.

Going on what 2ddamnloud brought up about Storm's electrical field, if Sersi cannot transmute through an electrical field, Storm could put an electrical around herself AND Sersi at the very beginning of the fight while throwing her blizzard up. Sersi would be unable to transmute from behind the field as well. smile

Other weaknesses Storm can play up on is Sersi's need to breathe. Hence, whenever Sersi is in space, she has to wear a space suit. Storm snowblinds Sersi and can just concentrate on suffocating her. Ororo has done this before.

Whatever the case, Sersi will always be succeptible to Storm's powers. Ororo can suffocate her. If she goes intangible, her lightning will hurt her. Sersi obviously is imitation Kitty when she goes intangible since Kitty is controlling herself on an atomic level when she phases. This may protect Sersi from winds, but not from the lighthing or suffocation. (Though air goes through Kitty while she is intangible, she still has to breathe. Same would hold true for Sersi since she's imitation Kitty's power with this.) If Sersi remains tangible, Storm's winds hit harder than most extreme class 100 strength characters. This will take Sersi out. She can also suffocate her.

On the Sersi side of this debate, all of your arguments with Sersi winning depends on her taking Storm out at the very beginning of the fight. If she fails in this, none of you have presented a way for Sersi to use her powers to win. I think the reason for this is Ororo's powers very cleanly counters Sersi's.

Honestly, if Sersi does not take Storm out at the very beginning of this fight, the advantage swings in Storm's favor. Ororo has plenty of ways to throw SErsi off balance at the very beginning to prevent this.

Sersi's teleportation means nothing if she doesn't know where Ororo is. She doesn't know where to teleport to. Storm could very easily put Sersi in a situation where she has to trap her into using her telepathy so she can fry Sersi's brain and take her out of the fight.

You guys keep bringing up Thor, but in many ways, Storm is a better fight against Sersi than Thor is. HE does not have the ability to detect movement in the environment like Storm does. He cannot alter his vision like Storm nor can he fry the brains of invading telepaths. He throws up a blizzard, he's just as snowblind as Sersi.

Guys, quite bringing up Thor, here. He does not have all the aspects of Storm's elemental powers.

Sersi has the advantage over Thor, but 50/50 against Storm. The longer the fight rages, Storm gets the advantage.

the Darkone

Originally posted by Rutog98
You put too much in that list for Storm. She does not have to do all of that in a split second. Sersi's state of tangibility is not even an issue here. Neither is her teleportation or anything.

Look, Storm can accomplish all she needs to accomplish is stealing vision from Sersi and creating too much volume for her. By creating her blizzard, she does everything she needs to do to prevent Sersi from getting to her. She can very easily generate that kind of mass as its nothing for nature to do that. You don't see that Sersi's powers is extremely limited where Storm is vastly powerful where mass is concerned.

Becoming invisible to Sersi's telepathy is an automatic thing for someone like Storm. She doesn't even have to use her powers for this. Another thing Storm could do is catch Sersi off guard with an thunderclap/sound attack or a surprise mini blizzard in the face. by the time Sersi recovers from the surprise, she looks up and Storm has moved herself out of Sersi's vision while blocking her thoughts. STorm can generate her blizzard at this point or generate it while Sersi is recovering and still not be where she was prior to her initial attack to throw Sersi off balance.

Going on what 2ddamnloud brought up about Storm's electrical field, if Sersi cannot transmute through an electrical field, Storm could put an electrical around herself AND Sersi at the very beginning of the fight while throwing her blizzard up. Sersi would be unable to transmute from behind the field as well. smile

Storm gets the advantage.

Your logic is horrible, Storm doesn't have any advantage you misguided foolish child, even Thor would smoke Storm and Sersi will turn Storm into a tampon within a blink of an eye. Sersi has control all forms of energy, Sersi can complete control over her molecules which means she can adapt to every what storm throws at her. Sersi will throw her shield which stood the nega bomb blast, if a Eternal wants to enter your mind they will. Sersi can cast illusion all day or Thor Storm around with her telekinesis, Sersi will teleport in front of Storm before Storm knows what to do; Sersi takes Storm's head off with her Immortal Hercules punch.

the Darkone

your logic is so horrible, Sersi turns Storm into a tampon then uses it.