What would you change? (my not-so favorite things)

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willofthewisp
Okay, we've all done "My Favorite Things," so without being negative and bringing our fanship down, let's talk about not what we hate, but what we would have changed in either movie. Rules: You cannot say you hate Will. Sorry. He gets picked on too much. You also cannot say, "I would have Jack and Liz get together a lot sooner and a lot hotter." You can't discuss Jack and Liz romantically on this thread, although you can discuss their scenes if you would change a line or two.

My not so favorite things:

Gov. Swann's wig. He's too much like an aged Captain Hook.

Will's hat at the end of COTBP.

I would have picked an actor that actually looks like Orlando Bloom to play Boostrap since Will's supposed to be the spitting image of him.

Mistypirate
LOL right.

I would have given Will a more dramatic entrance in both movies. In both movies both entrances seemed pretty lame and boring. But I guess that was the gig. big grin

Chiki Mina
Liz hair extensions--well, keira's hair extensions. It should be more...mm..pleasent.

Depprived
I am in complete agreement on the Bootstrap issue. "Spitting image" - yeah right!

Also, I would've had Murtogg and Mullroy play a small part in DMC. I know they're going to be back in AWE so it's all good.

Chiki Mina
Actually, I thought he did looked like Will. Like Bootstrap hair. But not that much. Oh well, anyways. They should have let Will take his whole shirt off stick out tongue

jackismyboo
more Will talking with his dad like them catching up instead of talking about death and the key. have a father son moment like Will giving him a hug or something.

PirateDiva
I would have put the Peas in a Pod scene in the movie COTBP!

Ericadawn
I would have given James a better story with a happy ending.

Chiki Mina
For AWE wink

Ericadawn
yeah

Hambah
chiki, i like your sig & avatar

jackismyboo
ok i look everywhere for pirates sigs and avatars where does everybody get theres and everytime i pick a sig for mine it is always too big where do you guys go? sorry i just had to ask this question.

Yea i agree with everybody chik i absolutley LOVE your sig it is again beautiful!!!!

PirateDiva
we make them!

jackismyboo
how?

Chiki Mina
Thank you guys again for the comments about the siggy and avy lool. I really should make more so you guys can have 'em.

a-k-a-amber
yes you should big grin

PirateDiva
Originally posted by jackismyboo
how?

Paint, Photoshop....pretty much any photo thingy i'm not very good at them...lol!

Chiki Mina
I downloaded photoshop *couhg*free*cough*

katelovespirate
Oh, i have a lot of these. Good thread, Willofthewisp!

For DMC:

1. give Tia Dalma subtitles. wink

2. Give Will something dashing to wear to his wedding (as opposed to a tablecloth).

3. the plot flow is majorly interrupted by the kraken attacking the greek ship with jack's hat sequence. i know they were trying to build up fear about the kraken, but its a HUGE waste of screentime.

4. It seems really out of character for Elizabeth to suggest and assure to Will that she will wait for him happily in prison while he's off. I think it would have been much more in character/ much more cinematic to say something to the effect of "If you take too long, I might have to come track you down," or "If all else fails, I'll meet you in Tortuga."

5. They ought to have kept in the line about Beckett recognizing Elizabeth from when he knew her in England. It gave them both a more credible backstory, and upped the tension.

6. It would not have been hard to play the compass off as less confusing. It was an integral plot point that pretty much failed, in my book. or at least make sure everyone involved with the film understands what it points to (what you want VS hearts desire).

7. All the scenes on the flying dutchman were difficult to watch. They were ALL at night, ALL in the rain, ALL depressing. Bootstrap had 1 good line, after following his son's habit of getting all the bad exposition.

8. The persuasion scene could have been even more fun (and more cinematic) if it had taken place in Jack's cabin. There was only 1 tiny shot of Jack's cabin in the entire film. It would have also contrasted better, as the Curiosity scene takes place in the exact same place on the deck of the ship.

9. The Beckett map thing was just wierd. I understand where they were TRYING to go with it, but it didn't do anything for me. It wasted screentime. Maybe it will be integral in AWE or something, but they were always cutting back to it and interrupting the flow.

10. Why does it seem like Beckett is coming on to Will when he tries to bargain with him? Does no one else get a really creepy sexual predator vibe from him? Is he supposed to be like that? It works in his scene with Elizabeth, but Beckett seems to look at Will's mouth a lot while speaking to him. It's kind of wierd.

11. Will's scene where he steals the key from Jones is HORRIBLE> As if, after exposing the hidden key to a free-to-move-about young buck with a clear call for vengence, Jones would fall asleep at his piano! YEAH RIGHT. The whole key thing is WIERD. Jack knows Jones has the key, but drags Will and everyone to Tia anyways. Then Will learns Jones has the key, but has to RE-LEARN about Jones having the key like 3 more times, and through a confusing dice game that wastes screentime. OF COURSE Jones would keep the key on his person. DUH.

12. I am not sure how I feel about the complete on-again, off-again nature of Jack and Elizabeth's flirting. One second they are up in each other's faces, hardly able to keep their hands off each other while sexual tension swirls around, and then suddenly they are calmly rowing in a boat with no more connection than two passengers on a train. It's wierd, I don't get it. Maybe it's just Kiera. It's like, unless she's getting to snog him, she doesnt really commit to the tension there.

13. Pintel and Ragetti got ENTIRELY TOO MUCH SCREENTIME. The comic relief was a huge waste of time in a film where the leading characters and plot supply the comic value anyways. the whole bible scene, though kind of cute, was a big waste of time. they had a lot of moments like that. Like you all said, they ought to have given some of that time to Murtogg and Mulroy.

14. It's definately the film of the epic props. between sinking wedding dresses, jars of dirt, compasses in hand, wall maps, father-to-son knives, chests, hearts, lockets/music boxes, keys (and drawings thereof), letters of marque, etc... a lot of the time, i felt all the screentime devoted to these objects had nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with the merchandising.

15. Why didn't Elizabeth drink the bloody drink at the end? (it's ambiguous things like this that had better get explained in AWE< or they will be really superfluous and irritating)

16. Beckett's sudden rise to power in Port Royal is ridiculous. He's a Lord, not a King for goodness sakes. The fuedal system is not a good explanation for him to waltz in with an army and put the governor in prison.

17. Are they trying to make us hate Will? What kind of idiot walks onto a creepy island where a ship is moored and proceeds to follow the twine string of a clearly laid trap?

18. Did the commodore need to throw up so much in the dock scene?

19. I just needed to reiterate what you all said about Kiera's extensions. dreadful. this is a summer blockbuster- it's okay to give the girl pretty hair. especially when everyone in the film falls madly in love with her.

20. I have problems with the Turkish prison scene- are they actually in Turkey? How the hell do they get around the caribbean so fast?

Okay, I'm done. I'll post my COTBP ones later, I reckon. smile

Chiki Mina
holly jelly beans, kate! eek!

what a list lol.

PirateDiva
LOL...Wow Kate....thats alot u dont like!!!

katelovespirate
hehehe well, i have said it before and i'll say it again, it is in fact my all time favorite film, i love watching it, and i think it's remarkably well put together. So i don't mind voicing my criticisms, because overall i think the film was really awesome. smile

willofthewisp
"5. They ought to have kept in the line about Beckett recognizing Elizabeth from when he knew her in England. It gave them both a more credible backstory, and upped the tension."----Kate

What are you talking about there? What do they say to each other, and how does it make them more credible?

I would have changed the dice game, too. I would have had them do something like mancala where whoever had the last marble or rock or peanut lost. And....you're right. On his person would be the first place I'd look for Davy's key.


I'd also change when Jack suggests Davy keep Will. This, although in character, doesn't make Jack very sympathetic at all, and it's awkward to see a human "tempting" someone that looks like Davy Jones. It should be the other way around with Jack terrified as he is in the rest of the movie. It doesn't fit their relationship if you can call it that.

I WOULD MAKE AT LEAST ONE GUY NOT COMPLETELY IN LOVE WITH LIZ OTHER THAN GIBBS!

Chiki Mina
I can't complain, just some stupid parts like Liz's hair. That's about it. And I love your siggy, kate.

katelovespirate
there was a line where Beckett said something to the effect of "Can this be little Elizabeth?"

as in, he knew her before as well. i dont know, it just sounded really good with the scene.


Yeah, I would even go so far as to have one guy not in love with her who casually wondered aloud why everyone WAS in love with her...

katelovespirate
oh thanks Chiki! i love yours too! are we using the same screencap? lol. great minds think alike.

willofthewisp
That works. I love Liz, don't get me wrong. She's so cool and I think she's great. But she's not as real when every guy she sees wants her that badly. Most of the time, she's dirty, probably smells, sweaty, etc. She's not at her most attractive moments. How many days do you think she went without a bath between her wedding day and when she has the gull to criticize Jack about his personal hygiene?

katelovespirate
and why does Liz never seem to get her period?

can you imagine feminine hygeine on a ship during that time of the month?

willofthewisp
Under the Black Flag (shut up about that book, Willo!) I can't help it. The book actually has a section about females in disguise as males much as Liz did and that most men just pissed over the deck directly into the water but for, uh, more pressing bowel needs, they went down into the ship and there was a place with a hole. Women, according to the author, had to rely on dark corners to change and go to the bathroom. I guess there were a lot of hiding places on a ship. Poor Liz. Maybe she was just finishing her period before the wedding.

I can't believe we just talked about that.

katelovespirate
hehehehe sorry. wink that book sounds neat.

erm... back on topic.

katelovespirate
my problems with COTBP

1. Elizabeth's hair in scene 1. you can see the curling iron creases. its uncanny, and raises endless questions--- did she have a slew of maids below decks, helping her do her hair and such?

2. Elizabeth's endless "oh!" acting.

3. Will's socks. sick

4. Will's endless puppy eye faces

5. Will's shoes with the buckles.

6. Once again, confusing props. Does the gold necklace really call to the pirates? Why didn't it call to them before?

7. Is it just me, or could the brave, resourceful Elizabeth we all know and love find a way off the Black Pearl, or do something to help herself there? She just walks along with them, right up to be killed as she thinks.

8. Does Will hear Jack and Gibb's conversation in the inn in tortuga? Cause he used the line "not gonna be your leverage", but if he would have heard the whole conversation, he would have acted differently, right?

9. Anna maria's last line. "The black pearl is yours". it seems too soft and out of character for her--- is she coming on to him? Did she change her mind since the last scene, decide she loved him, and then just hand over the ship he technically owed her back to him? wtf? and where does she vanish to in between films 1 and 2? the black hole where women go that are prettier and pose a threat to Elizabeth's dominance of the caribbean?

10. how the hell does Will swim the 300+ yards between the blown up interceptor and the black pearl in about 12 seconds?!

11. Why are Jack and Elizabeth practically dry when they wade up to the island, i mean their hair?

12. Are they trying to make Norrington into a total idiot? Here Elizabeth has accepted his proposal on the condition they go rescue Will, and he doesnt get that? And then suddenly, in film 2, he goes from having NO knowledge of the female psyche whatsoever, to understanding EXACTLY what Elizabeth wants when she doesnt even understand it... wtf?

13. Why can governor swann pardon Will but not Jack, at the end? Not to mention--- As if Elizabeth would really just watch Jack get hanged? That sucks. If you stop to think about it, she's really dumb there.

14. Will's hair in the final scene, under the hat, looks incredibly greasy.


That's all for now! smile

Mistypirate
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I would have totally dismissed the darn compass in DMC. Or I would have gotten rid of it at the beginning of of the movie. wink

willofthewisp
"1. Elizabeth's hair in scene 1. you can see the curling iron creases. its uncanny, and raises endless questions--- did she have a slew of maids below decks, helping her do her hair and such?"-----Kate

Are you talking about little Liz? I hate that girl. She's horrible. If she learned a pirate song, and she's obsessed with pirates, why would she sing it so slowly? So they could have a creepy kid singing for the DMC trailer. There is no other explanation. Second, her hair is very visibly curled with a curling iron, she looks nothing like Keira, and her accent comes and goes.

When little Will is brought up on the ship, he kind of flinches when she touches him and says, "it's okay. My name's Elizabeth Swann" in a very fake, very non late 1600/early 1700s British way.


Why did Gibbs, of all people, not want to go help Jack during COTBP when Liz had to go back all by herself, but in just a year's time is willing to risk death by sailing to the ends of the earth to save him?

PirateDiva
Originally posted by katelovespirate
and why does Liz never seem to get her period?

can you imagine feminine hygeine on a ship during that time of the month?

LMAO....although a valid guestion....it still sounded hilarious...lmao!!!

PirateDiva
Originally posted by willofthewisp
I would have changed the dice game, too. I would have had them do something like mancala where whoever had the last marble or rock or peanut lost. And....you're right. On his person would be the first place I'd look for Davy's key.

LOL...i still dont get the DICE GAME!!!

Depprived
It had to be in contact with the water. That's why the pirates show up the same night as Liz almost drowns. Not a coincidence. They actually made an effort to make sure this was clear. As soon as the medallion hits the water there's a big closeup of it, a sound effect, the weather changes, etc.

Chiki Mina
Wow, you gals sure complain alot lol.

Depprived
And I agree about the scenes on the Dutchman. So depressing. The dark/rain is often used in films to cover up bad or imperfect CGI.

Will and Bootstaps's relationship = another missed opportunity. I just didn't care about them and their reunion. I am glad that they didn't keep Bootstrap's ,"Who's Barbossa?" line from the script, followed by awful exposition by Will.

Also Bootstrap looked stood out like a sore thumb as the only human amongst the CGI crew. I know they wanted him to be human - literally but I just couldn't buy. Especially when DJ was holding him back with what looked like a skeleton of a fish near the end. WTF? lol

willofthewisp
Wouldn't Bootstrap know who Barbossa was anyway? He was part of the crew during the mutiny.

PirateDiva
^^ Ya ur right maybe thats why they left it out!!

Surreal_44
I think Bootstrap mentions this, but here is how I understand it. Being part of the crew on the Dutchman, it doesn't just claim your body and soul, it claims your mind. You lose bits and pieces of who you are, and as that happens you become a slave of the ship...until you become a part of the ship.


I suspect that the bargain is rigged so that even if you manage to serve 100 years, your soul does not move on or find peace. I think that once you swear an oath to the Dutchman, you are trapped forever on that ship.

willofthewisp
That's what I suspect too, Surreal. Even if that's not true, it's still a bad idea. In 100 years, everyone you know and love will be dead and you'll have had no idea what's gone on in the world. You'd be like an alien on another planet. I wonder if any of the crew gets released if they go back to the Flying Dutchman since it would be what they were familiar with.

Surreal_44
Well, I wonder what would happen to Bootstrap...is the oath to Davy Jones, the captain or to the Dutchman? If Will becomes captain, he's not technically Davy Jones, so what happens to the crew that's already on the ship once DJ is gone?


One thing I would have changed were the reunion scenes, simply because I thought they could have been expanded a bit to give it more depth. I am in the minority of people who actually enjoyed those scenes in the film, but I wish they had done more with it. Not longer, necessarily, just...something else. *ggg* Does that make any sense?


I would have allowed all of Norrington's scenes to be in the film. I understand why they cut them (a lot had Jack in them, with Jack being rude, which made him less sympathetic), but James' scenes would have been fabulous, because Jack Davenport is just an incredible actor.


Another thing that I would have changed was the island scene. Yes, yes, it was funny, but it seemed to take a looooooooooong time to wrap it up.

willofthewisp
How did you get to see what was deleted from DMC? I'd be most interested in seeing or reading those scenes with James.

PirateDiva
I think maybe from the DMC script....lines that never made it on the MOVIE!

Surreal_44
^^ It is in the script that TnT released for us before (was it before?) Christmas. There are some incredible moments in it that would have been fabulous on-screen. I know that at least one was actually filmed...


....such a fantastic line. Do you have the script for DMC? If not, I'd be happy to e-mail it to you. big grin

willofthewisp
Yeah, do that. Or just pick out some lines and list who said them if you want. It would be interesting.

lovethemtigers
I would change....the ending of POTC 1....but then again...nay..cause then there would be no reason for DMC ...I was going to say...It would have been great...if after Jack "trips and falls" over the wall into the sea....that Liz would have jumped in after him and gone on the Pearl and helped him to teach the crew the Pirate Song....

lovethemtigers
and would have hollared back...."actually, this is where my heart truly lies, not with James, and not with Will...but with Jack...it's a Pirate's life for me...."

PirateDiva
LMAO...I agree but then we would have never seen that KISS of the AGES...That Kiss that had been Building up since the day they meet!!! Thats KISS OF DEATH!!! That KISS That has us all OBSESSED!!! big grin

willofthewisp
Well said, piratediva.

On the subject of romance, if they really wanted to make W/E the dominant relationship, they should have included more scenes at the beginning of them together. It would have slowed the story a little, but if you think about it, the island scenes with Jack and Liz slow down the story, as much as we love them. It's meant to focus on character, and we didn't get enough of that to really be able to appreciate Will and Liz's relationship.

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