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Phoenix Force by destroying whole race, if it chooses so.

Not another Phoenix Thread pleaseeee....

Originally posted by Xplosive
Phoenix Force by destroying whole race, if it chooses so.

Arishem judges the Phoenix Force

Originally posted by guy222
Arishem judges the Phoenix Force

That's like a street bum judging a swat team, so what. Phoenix punked Galactus. No problem doing the same to the Celestials.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
That's like a street bum judging a swat team, so what. Phoenix punked Galactus. No problem doing the same to the Celestials.

ur saying phoenix>galactus

there's a lot of celestials

arishem only had its hand 'destroyed', they can heal anything

what happened when phoenix and cyclops encounter a celestial

Originally posted by jasofisc
what happened when phoenix and cyclops encounter a celestial

Cyclops would die

Phoenix only 'destroyed' Arishem's hand

Not the judgment

Originally posted by guy222
Cyclops would die

Phoenix only 'destroyed' Arishem's hand

Not the judgment

Wasnt Phoenix. It was Jean Grey. She had Phoenix residue from her encounter with Mad Pryor and she released this last remaining part she had and it destroyed the Celestials hand. If we were talking a fully fledged Phoenix then id definitely give it to her.

It was PIS moment though, if she wasn't there the x-men would of probably died, and marvel don't want that happening. Though I will perhaps give phoenix a majority against a single celestial or two, but not all the celestials.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wasnt Phoenix. It was Jean Grey. She had Phoenix residue from her encounter with Mad Pryor and she released this last remaining part she had and it destroyed the Celestials hand. If we were talking a fully fledged Phoenix then id definitely give it to her.

Thank u for the post

Originally posted by Maestro
Though I will perhaps give phoenix a majority against a single celestial or two, but not all the celestials. Quite true.

This is he Phoenix Force, not just one Phoenix.

ALL the celestials? Every single one of them at the same time? I'd definitely go with the celestials.

Originally posted by Evangel94
ALL the celestials? Every single one of them at the same time? I'd definitely go with the celestials.

It is all the Celestials

Thank u for ur post

Originally posted by guy222
ok

Originally posted by Evangel94
ALL the celestials? Every single one of them at the same time? I'd definitely go with the celestials.

Well if the Phoenix force was under threat of been extinguished wouldn't all the phoenix avatars come to its aid so i don't think we can go by numbers. Besides the force could just pick new avatars i don't think we can assume win by sheer numbers.

the greatest problem the phoinix force would face is that technically the celestials cannot die so ... don't know gonna be a tough battle

again...

If you vote for the celestials your racist.

Originally posted by id369
If you vote for the celestials your racist.

nah they are quite powerful

I think Phoneix is as powerful as a celestial. She destroyed a planet with ease when she was Dark Phoenix. Against an army of them though she would simple be outweighed. They would form such a formation that none of them would suffer much and she would die.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
I think Phoneix is as powerful as a celestial. She destroyed a planet with ease when she was Dark Phoenix. Against an army of them though she would simple be outweighed. They would form such a formation that none of them would suffer much and she would die.

Theyre creations of Eternity. The entire Force would stomp them.

i say phoenix but not sure.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theyre creations of Eternity. The entire Force would stomp them.

Are u saying, Phoenix Force>Eternity. One showing doesn't prove conclusively. I tell u this, they ain't gonna run

Originally posted by guy222
Are u saying, Phoenix Force>Eternity. One showing doesn't prove conclusively. Very true.

Originally posted by Evangel94
ALL the celestials? Every single one of them at the same time? I'd definitely go with the celestials.

Don't be misguided by Galactic Storm's cosmic sized delusions, the Phoenix Force has never shown to be even a universal power.

She has been killed by Xorn, Wolverine, she has been wounded by the shiar, the Xmen, the very phoenix force itself (this is with no host, purely the phoenix force in full power) was nearly killed by an energy beam.

The Celestials would annihilate the Phoenix Force.

Phoenix wins, whenever the Phoenix comes to the corporeal plane it is to do "phoenix work", so we'll assume destroying the Celestials is "phoenix work", nothing has stopped the Phoenix from doing it's work, she has been challenged and hindered, but not stopped. Being killed by Xorn and Wolverine were necessary to the Phoenix cycle, besides they killed Jeans physical form, not the Phoenix Force, you can't kill a force, hey everybody lets kill gravity and electromagnetism.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Phoenix wins, whenever the Phoenix comes to the corporeal plane it is to do "phoenix work", so we'll assume destroying the Celestials is "phoenix work", nothing has stopped the Phoenix from doing it's work, she has been challenged and hindered, but not stopped. Being killed by Xorn and Wolverine were necessary to the Phoenix cycle, besides they killed Jeans physical form, not the Phoenix Force, you can't kill a force, hey everybody lets kill gravity and electromagnetism.

Celestials>Phoenix Force

All Celestials = a million suns, Phoenix = the big bang
Oh yeah and Phoenix did not destroy a planet she ate a star which destroyed an entire star system, D'bari was just the only planet with life.

Originally posted by LordKaos
All Celestials = a million suns, Phoenix = the big bang
Oh yeah and Phoenix did not destroy a planet she ate a star which destroyed an entire star system, D'bari was just the only planet with life.

Thanks for the post. I have always wanted to discuss the immortal bird and those whose powers seem so infinite

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theyre creations of Eternity. The entire Force would stomp them.

Yup, PF stomps the whole race suddenly.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yup, PF stomps the whole race suddenly.

thanks for the post

the big bang therory seems kinda strange, but i'm certain that the big bang is equal to 1CNRhK

Originally posted by qqqqqqq
the big bang therory seems kinda strange, but i'm certain that the big bang is equal to 1CNRhK

thanks for the post

Manifestations of the Phoenix Force can destroy universes. If we're talking the sum of the Phoenix Force against the handful of Celestials we know about, then definitely the Phoenix Force.

The Celestials are unproven.

Didn't New Son destroy his universe's Phoenix?

Originally posted by Soleran
Didn't New Son destroy his universe's Phoenix?

Allegedly so. But what incarnation of Phoenix was that? For all we know it was X-men level Jean Grey calling herself Phoenix.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Manifestations of the Phoenix Force can destroy universes. If we're talking the sum of the Phoenix Force against the handful of Celestials we know about, then definitely the Phoenix Force.

The Celestials are unproven.



Celestials are very ommipotent. It would be nice to see what happens if the Force encounters Celestials.

Thanks for the post

Originally posted by guy222


Celestials are very ommipotent. It would be nice to see what happens if the Force encounters Celestials.

Thanks for the post

There are levels of infinity. The Celestials are somewhere between Galactus and the abstracts in power. They are nowhere near omnipotent. In comparison to a mutant they might be. But in the scheme of things, when all powers are taken into consideration, going by their on panel showings they really arent.

Single Celestials have been shown to be able to throw planets from their orbits and initiate global scale changes. Together they are a formiddable force. We know of nearly a dozen of them.

In a no holds barred match the full Phoenix Force would stomp them.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There are levels of infinity. The Celestials are somewhere between Galactus and the abstracts in power. They are nowhere near omnipotent. In comparison to a mutant they might be. But in the scheme of things, when all powers are taken into consideration, going by their on panel showings they really arent.

Single Celestials have been shown to be able to throw planets from their orbits and initiate global scale changes. Together they are a formiddable force. We know of nearly a dozen of them.

In a no holds barred match the full Phoenix Force would stomp them.

Thanks, GS

Celestials make Uatu and Galactus cower

There are so many Celestials

Originally posted by guy222
Thanks, GS

Celestials make Uatu and Galactus cower

There are so many Celestials

Phoenix is stated to be a threat that makes Galactus pale into insignificance. Uatu considered Phoenix to be a Force second only to the supreme being

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix is stated to be a threat that makes Galactus pale into insignificance. Uatu considered Phoenix to be a Force second only to the supreme being

I always believed PF>>Galactus. New info now seems Celestials>>>Galactus

See, my meager knowledge isn't too bad

Originally posted by guy222
I always believed PF>>Galactus. New info now seems Celestials>>>Galactus

See, my meager knowledge isn't too bad

Based on Galactus' fear of the Dreaming Celestial in the recent Eternals mini?

Not conclusive evidence, although i do actually believe the top Celestials to be beyond Galactus.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Based on Galactus' fear of the Dreaming Celestial in the recent Eternals mini?

Not conclusive evidence, although i do actually believe the top Celestials to be beyond Galactus.

Tiamut.

I agree

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Uatu considered Phoenix to be a Force second only to the supreme being

Despite LT both being between them in terms of power?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Despite LT both being between them in terms of power?

By presentation and word of mouth not on panel display.

My point was merely to show Phoenixes superiority to the Celestials. Lets not turn this into an LT Vs Phoenix debate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By presentation and word of mouth not on panel display.

My point was merely to show Phoenixes superiority to the Celestials. Lets not turn this into an LT Vs Phoenix debate.

I just like accuracy (LT beat the IG I call that proof of its power)

Anyway Pheonix probably does well in this fight.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I just like accuracy (and LT beat the IG anyway)

LT depowered an inanimate object. He talked Adam out of fighting him with the IG by guilt tripping him about the destruction it would cause his reality and THEN he stopped it from working.

It was stated in the same issue LT needed to determine how his power would fare against the IG's. If LT doesnt know, NOONE can speak for him and say LT was more powerful.

Once Adam had submitted LTs ruling was applied. In the same way a mechanic with a wrench can stop a tank from working when its stationary and not being pitted against him, but lets see how that mechanic would fare against the tank when its manned.

See my point?

I like accuracy to.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Anyway Pheonix probably does well in this fight.

Agreed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT depowered an inanimate object. He talked Adam out of fighting him with the IG by guilt tripping him about the destruction it would cause his reality and THEN he stopped it from working.

It was stated in the same issue LT needed to determine how his power would fare against the IG's. If LT doesnt know, NOONE can speak for him and say LT was more powerful.

Once Adam had submitted LTs ruling was applied. In the same way a mechanic with a wrench can stop a tank from working when its stationary and not being pitted against him, but lets see how that mechanic would fare against the tank when its manned.

See my point?

I like accuracy to.



Agreed.

Living Tribunal and Phoenix Force. Very good to discuss. Celestials also

Originally posted by guy222
Living Tribunal and Phoenix Force. Very good to discuss. Celestials also

Celestials are many.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Celestials are many.

Sidious, yes they are

Originally posted by Utrigita
the greatest problem the phoinix force would face is that technically the celestials cannot die so ... don't know gonna be a tough battle

Very good point.

Originally posted by guy222
Very good point.

PF can never die. Wait, neither can Celestials

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
PF can never die. Wait, neither can Celestials

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
PF can never die. Wait, neither can Celestials
I suppose technically they can. Thanos destroyed one in The End.

Celestials can very well die. Thanos killed one and i believe so did invisible woman(dont remember well).

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I suppose technically they can. Thanos destroyed one in The End.

Celestials have returned

Originally posted by Mordum
Celestials can very well die. Thanos killed one and i believe so did invisible woman(dont remember well).

Oh, really. Celestials have returned. Thanos has also. Celestials are pretty much ommipotent

Originally posted by guy222
Oh, really. Celestials have returned. Thanos has also. Celestials are pretty much ommipotent are you a celestials fan?

Originally posted by qqqqqqq
are you a celestials fan?

I marvel at beings in armour, who appear to be more powerful than anyone save Eternity and Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by guy222
Celestials have returned
Everything returned to the way it was after The End. That doesn't mean it wasn't destoryed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Everything returned to the way it was after The End. That doesn't mean it wasn't destoryed.

Celestials=Phoenix Force

Originally posted by guy222
Celestials=Phoenix Force

Based on what? They have no feats for you to justify that statement. Thats mere unsupported opinion.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Based on what? They have no feats for you to justify that statement. Thats mere unsupported opinion.

Thanks for post. Celestials and the immortal Bird have only met once. Nothing was really proven. It appears the power they possess is ommipotent.

Originally posted by guy222
Thanks for post. Celestials and the immortal Bird have only met once. Nothing was really proven. It appears the power they possess is ommipotent.



As aforementioned there are levels of infinity in Marvel. The Celestials have been presented on panel as being below Eternity. The Celestials on panel have juggled planets and only ever performed global scale feats. With that in mind there is no justification for anyone to say Celestials = Phoenix.

Phoenix has better feats. Much better feats. Phoenix is regarded as the power that perpetuates the creation cycle. Beginning it, maintaining it and ending it. The Celestials are presented as cosmic scientists who fiddle with the genetics of planets across the universe and come back every now and then to evaluate their work. Theres no comparison.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As aforementioned there are levels of infinity in Marvel. The Celestials have been presented on panel as being below Eternity. The Celestials on panel have juggled planets and only ever performed global scale feats. With that in mind there is no justification for anyone to say Celestials = Phoenix.

Phoenix has better feats. Much better feats. Phoenix is regarded as the power that perpetuates the creation cycle. Beginning it, maintaining it and ending it. The Celestials are presented as cosmic scientists who fiddle with the genetics of planets across the universe and come back every now and then to evaluate their work. Theres no comparison.

Celestials feats aren't too shabby. Humbling would be gods and skyfathers. Helping contain Protege. Who they are fascinates me? Who is afraid of em, that's been proven.

Originally posted by guy222
Celestials feats aren't too shabby.

Irrelevant. The crux of the matter is that theyre not as good as the character youre pitting them up against therefore your Celestials equal or are greater than claims with regards to the Phoenix Force are completely unjustified.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant. The crux of the matter is that theyre not as good as the character youre pitting them up against therefore your Celestials equal or are greater than claims with regards to the Phoenix Force are completely unjustified.

Good fair, clean debate

Originally posted by guy222
Good fair, clean debate

Agreed. Alot of people would react to what ive said with anger and insults because i disagree with them. Its good to debate with maturity.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Agreed. Alot of people would react to what ive said with anger and insults because i disagree with them. Its good to debate with maturity.

GS, I agree. With the new guidelines, its good to honor one's respect. I have always valued your opinions