anti monitor vs mad jim jaspers

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qqqqqqq
anti monitor with tech. who wins?

qqqqqqq
someone should create a MJJ and AM respect thread

guy222
Originally posted by qqqqqqq
someone should create a MJJ and AM respect thread

anti monitor

grey fox
Anti-monitor easily.

qqqqqqq
Originally posted by grey fox
Anti-monitor easily. how?

LORDSIDIOUS01
Originally posted by qqqqqqq
how?

meh. jaspers can't handle the bird, how he handle anti monitor. stomp for the anti monitor

draxx_tOfU
i think E-238 jaspers stands a chance...

but that's just me though...

he was, after all, an omniversal threat...

qqqqqqq
i think 238 jasper is weaker than 616 jaspers

Galan007
Unless AM can transport MJJ to unspace, there is no way he can be beaten.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Unless AM can transport MJJ to unspace, there is no way he can be beaten.

True,

but AM would have to teleport Jaspers, before Jaspers turned him into a cup of tea.


Remember, the Fury was able to last long enough to figure out how to defeat Jaspers because the Fury was Immune to Jaspers' 238 Warping powers. (and the Fury was able to shapeshift out of every Warp 616 Jaspers threw at him, but NOT for ever) the Fury was greatly weakened after the battle,

this suggests the Fury had it's limits (atleast against Jaspers 616)


(excerpt from Fury's bio, Offical Marvel 2006)
http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/3931/f1ts5.th.jpg


The Fury withstood Universal Nullification, and Jaspers' Warps


(excerpt from Jaspers' bio, Official marvel 2006)
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8502/f2qd0.th.jpg


AM was not created by Jaspers,

AM would not be immune.

SoulDevourer
both have reality-warping powers but it seems MJJ can't transform all he wishes "at will"
eg. suppose he could transform the Fury into a cup of tea - the Fury would not have been able to transform back because it would no longer be the Fury, just a cup of tea ^^
(or maybe the Fury is also impervious to reality warping so it doesn't even need to shapeshift since it can't be warped in the 1st place - perhaps this was stated somewhere but I can't recall)


DC reality warp also seems a lot stronger than Marvel reality warp (just an impression though) so I'd have to give an easy victory for AM

btw. didn't even mxy fear the anti-monitor ???

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer


DC reality warp also seems a lot stronger than Marvel reality warp (just an impression though) so I'd have to give an easy victory for AM
How?

xJLxKing
Mad Jim Jasper wins. He is very powerful. He can destroy AM if they are on the same planet and universe. BTW is this the stongest version on MJJ?

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Mindset
How? reality warpers from DC verse can alter reality say by rewriting the laws of logic itself
(for example making it so that "1+1=3"wink

any similar examples in the Marvelverse ??

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
reality warpers from DC verse can alter reality say by rewriting the laws of logic itself
(for example making it so that "1+1=3"wink

any similar examples in the Marvelverse ??

That's not anything more impressive than what MJJ did, not too mention AM didn't even do that.

So... confused

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Mindset
That's not anything more impressive than what MJJ did, not too mention AM didn't even do that.

So... confused ? it's WAY more impressive

isn't reality warping in Marvel verse restricted to warping space & time ? (read this in another thread here too). for example you can distort space or slow down time but the laws of logic remain the same

your right I don't recall AM doing it but the 5D imps did fear the AM, so if they could could do it then not a stretch to speculate that AM could do it too

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
? it's WAY more impressive

isn't reality warping in Marvel verse restricted to warping space & time ? (read this in another thread here too). for example you can distort space or slow down time but the laws of logic remain the same

your right I don't recall AM doing it but the 5D imps did fear the AM, so if they could could do it then not a stretch to speculate that AM could do it too So making 1+1=3 is more impressive than being able to make a universe where everything is governed by your whim?

No, not so much.

Reality Warpers in Marvel have destroyed actual concepts, you're telling me that is less impressive than changing logic?

Mxy was scared of SMP, that doesn't mean much.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Mindset
So making 1+1=3 is more impressive than being able to make a universe where everything is governed by your whim?

No, not so much.

Reality Warpers in Marvel have destroyed actual concepts, you're telling me that is less impressive than changing logic?

Mxy was scared of SMP, that doesn't mean much. "make a universe" ? MJJ could only alter existing reality not create stuff ex nihilo (that was his weakness)



ok let me put it this way : 1+1=3 doesn't sound like much (what is it after all, just an odd equation using an ASCII keyboard)
but now imagine the CONSEQUENCES of this - that's when things start to get messy ^__^


now Beyonder erased Death (but then is it a concept or just a high-level sentient being ? ie. did people stop dying when he did this ?)
and even IF Death was a concept & he erased it then yes it is impressive - but unfortunately that was retconned



"SMP" ???

Nihilist
mjj ftw

jaspers was a omniversal threat, am was only effecting the multiverse

SoulDevourer
don't definitions of "Omniverse" vary ?

in DC doesn't "Omniverse" = DC verse ? (ie. DC multiverse) confused


otherwise this would make Fury a trans-omniversal threat since it's above MJJ

Harbinger
Couldn't AM conceivably just destroy the universe they're in and leave MJJ with nothing to warp?

Nihilist
Originally posted by Harbinger
Couldn't AM conceivably just destroy the universe they're in and leave MJJ with nothing to warp? doubt it imo,within his jaspers warp he is god

fangirl101
Originally posted by Harbinger
Couldn't AM conceivably just destroy the universe they're in and leave MJJ with nothing to warp?

Nihilist
Originally posted by fangirl101
facepalm

SoulDevourer
if MJJ really was god in his reality then the fight with Fury wouldn't have lasted a fraction of the time it did (unless Fury was also god-level, this is possible but I'm still not sure...)


besides MJJ couldn't even prevent himself from being teleported out of his own reality (and into unreality)

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
"make a universe" ? MJJ could only alter existing reality not create stuff ex nihilo (that was his weakness)



ok let me put it this way : 1+1=3 doesn't sound like much (what is it after all, just an odd equation using an ASCII keyboard)
but now imagine the CONSEQUENCES of this - that's when things start to get messy ^__^


now Beyonder erased Death (but then is it a concept or just a high-level sentient being ? ie. did people stop dying when he did this ?)
and even IF Death was a concept & he erased it then yes it is impressive - but unfortunately that was retconned



"SMP" ???


You said Marvel reality warpers, I was telling you people in Marvel can make a universe where the laws they want are made or broken. Jaspers can alter the universe to his whim.

Get it?

Yes, people stopped dying when he erased Death. Anyone who is stronger than Death can erase her, therefore Jaspers could do the same thing, get it?


Superman Prime.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
if MJJ really was god in his reality then the fight with Fury wouldn't have lasted a fraction of the time it did (unless Fury was also god-level, this is possible but I'm still not sure...)


besides MJJ couldn't even prevent himself from being teleported out of his own reality (and into unreality)
From what I know, his power was out of control and was a danger to all the universes. Thats very power, but I wouldn't call it "god" power.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Mindset
You said Marvel reality warpers, I was telling you people in Marvel can make a universe where the laws they want are made or broken. Jaspers can alter the universe to his whim.

Get it?yeah I got it but I was saying that there seems to be a limit as to how much these reality warpers can warp an existing universe which they're already in. IMO they can't rewrite logic itself for example. get it ?

making universes is another thing entirely but MJJ can't pull that off anyway so that's another debate. this is about reality warping not creating things out of nothing ("power of creation" or whatever. what kinda mutant in the marvel verse have been shown to be able to create a universe anyway ???)


if MJJ could erase Death then he would've done so while he was still in his reality so that he couldn't get killed when teleported to unreality by Fury (unless he felt suicidal maybe, since he was supposed to be "mad" . but I'm assuming he tried everything within his abilities to avoid losing during the fight)

Dark-Jaxx
...ANY reality warper can defy and rewrite the laws of physics and logic to some extent...It kinda goes with the job description. no expression

MJJ ftw.

SoulDevourer
yeah "to some extent"

btw can Scatterbrain warp reality ? (she can slow down time telepathically and some of you here have classed this as reality warping since time is an aspect of reality)

Enyalus
Anti-matter wave would probably do the trick to give AM the win, what with Jaspers not having anything to warp. Problem is, that takes far more time than it does for MJJ to warp AM.

MJJ wins.

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah I got it but I was saying that there seems to be a limit as to how much these reality warpers can warp an existing universe which they're already in. IMO they can't rewrite logic itself for example. get it ?

making universes is another thing entirely but MJJ can't pull that off anyway so that's another debate. this is about reality warping not creating things out of nothing ("power of creation" or whatever. what kinda mutant in the marvel verse have been shown to be able to create a universe anyway ???)


if MJJ could erase Death then he would've done so while he was still in his reality so that he couldn't get killed when teleported to unreality by Fury (unless he felt suicidal maybe, since he was supposed to be "mad" . but I'm assuming he tried everything within his abilities to avoid losing during the fight)

If you can alter the universe and the concepts of that universe anyway you want, you can alter logic. So no, I don't get what you're saying.


MJJ can alter anything as long as he has something to alter, which was why he was powerless in unspace. Franklin Richards has created a universe.

There was no death in unspace, so how would he destroy her? Have you read the story or are you just going off of things you've heard?

Bentley
The difference between a matter manipulator and a reality manipulator is that the later can destroy logic and abstract concepts.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Mindset
If you can alter the universe and the concepts of that universe anyway you want, you can alter logic. So no, I don't get what you're saying.hey the question is simple really : was MJJ shown to alter the most fundamental concepts of reality ?
in other words can he do what mxy did ? (rewrite maths. maths is the basics of everything u know time space gravity biology pizza etc.)
for example 2+2=3, can he cause that ?


no death in unspace ? how was he killed then ?
I'm going by mv canon, at least I'm rilly rilly sure I am, states that Death & the rest are multiversal (thus only ONE Death for the whole mv verse). you seem to imply that there's a different Death for each universe (we are talking about marvel erse right ??? for example the one where LT convenes with Death Eternity & Oblivion in a 16 dimension space & extracts a planet out of Eternity or something)

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Bentley
The difference between a matter manipulator and a reality manipulator is that the later can destroy logic and abstract concepts. I agree ! smile

xJLxKing
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
hey the question is simple really : was MJJ shown to alter the most fundamental concepts of reality ?
in other words can he do what mxy did ? (rewrite maths. maths is the basics of everything u know time space gravity biology pizza etc.)
for example 2+2=3, can he cause that ?


no death in unspace ? how was he killed then ?
I'm going by mv canon, at least I'm rilly rilly sure I am, states that Death & the rest are multiversal (thus only ONE Death for the whole mv verse). you seem to imply that there's a different Death for each universe (we are talking about marvel erse right ??? for example the one where LT convenes with Death Eternity & Oblivion in a 16 dimension space & extracts a planet out of Eternity or something)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Jim_Jaspers just read it. It not official source but you know

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Enyalus
Anti-matter wave would probably do the trick to give AM the win, what with Jaspers not having anything to warp. Problem is, that takes far more time than it does for MJJ to warp AM.

MJJ wins. but AM also has reality warp so why wouldn't he warp MJJ instead ?

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by xJLxKing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Jim_Jaspers just read it. It not official source but you know thanx


golly he looks infinitely more powerful in that link than he did in his fight with the Fury robot


so this means I was right Fury is also a cosmic-level being since he could resist MJJ cool

Enyalus
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but AM also has reality warp so why wouldn't he warp MJJ instead ?

Because MJJ's reality manipulation abilities >>> AM's displayed reality manipulation abilities.

Plus the last incarnation of MJJ we saw was immune to reality warping.

Mindset
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
hey the question is simple really : was MJJ shown to alter the most fundamental concepts of reality ?
in other words can he do what mxy did ? (rewrite maths. maths is the basics of everything u know time space gravity biology cooking etc.)
for example 2+2=3, can he cause that ?


no death in unspace ? how was he killed then ?
I'm going by mv canon, at least I'm rilly rilly sure I am, states that Death & the rest are multiversal (thus only ONE Death for the whole mv verse). you seem to imply that there's a different Death for each universe (we are talking about marvel erse right ??? for example the one where LT convenes with Death Eternity & Oblivion in a 16 dimension space & extracts a planet out of Eternity or something)

If he can alter anything in the universe he's in then there's no reason why he couldn't alter logic, he can alter the fundamental building blocks of reality. He remade an entire universe, but he can't change logic? No he never changed logic, but there is no reason why he couldn't, Living Tribunal has never done it either, does it mean he couldn't?


Some concepts have universal aspects, Eternity for example, but if there is only one Death for the entire omniverse then that makes even more sense why Jaspers was able to die. Before he was taken to unspace he pretty much knew Fury had no way of killing him, there was no reason for him to erase Death.

SoulDevourer
Before he was taken to unspace he pretty much knew Fury had no way of killing him, there was no reason for him to erase Death. so MJJ616 can erase Death ? (haven't read all the comics but I didn't know he wuz that strong)

so this means he can erase Eternity (and maybe even LT)

so this place the Fury above Death (and Eternity because same level) since it can resist MJJ and MJJ can pwn Death


hey btw check out MY thread (Fury vs TOAA) some ppl made fun of it but with what you just said this proves they were wrong and my thread has good basis actually cool

(ok maybe we can change it to "Fury vs Living Tribunal" if u think TOAA is too high
IMO Fury still has good chance against LT)

Mindset
Yes, I'd say 616MJJ could Erase death and Eternity.

Whether he can beat LT I'm not sure, but TOAA would definitely beat MJJ.

At the time MJJ was fighting Fury I'd place LT over him, but if MJJ power kept building like it was supposed to he'd eventually become more powerful imo.

LT > MJJ > Fury

SoulDevourer
MJJ > Fury ? but Fury won (yeah he teleported them to unreality but he was resisting MJJ's omnipotent powers even in MJJ's turf so that place him at least equal to if not above MJJ, right ??)


that's why Fury vs LT should be interesting

Mindset
I think MJJ would have become strong enough to beat Fury if he was not killed, and Fury would probably run out of energy before MJJ, that's why I put him over Fury.

SoulDevourer
I dunno maybe your right


but isnt MJJ's power like "constant" or something ? it's Fury who's suppose to be the one who adapts (in wich case MJJ remains at same level and its Fury who gets stronger & stronger !)

Mindset
No, MJJ was becoming stronger.

SoulDevourer
oh

crap I cant remember the whole fight Ima gonna have to find that comic again (only read the few they have in school library, duh)


I absitively remember they saying Fury could adapt & get stronger & stronger & that it had absorbed the cave sized computer or something and that's why it resisted MJJ power

I'm alsmost sure the fight looked like stalemate until fury warped to unreality
ohwell sad

Mindset
Fury was adapting and getting stronger, I'm saying MJJ was getting stronger as well. He was becoming a omniversal threat.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so this means he can erase Eternity

He did.

MJJ ftw.

galactusischere
Bump

starlock
Anti Monitor for the win

illadelph12
Nah, I'd take MJJ. I doubt that Anti-Monitor would know to take Jaspers to Unspace, and even considering that, given that even while taking Jaspers to Unspace there would still be facets of reality for Jaspers to manipulate (namely, his own and, if he were to accompany him there, Anti-Monitor's, being, which was overlooked in the episode with the Fury for the sake of the story), I don't believe that would guarantee victory. Logic would dictate that in a forum fight, which isn't bound by the irrationality of a plot, MJJ would win, in spite of that paradoxical oversight on Davis's part.

That's my take, anyway.

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