Deathstroke versus Ultimate Captain America

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masterbruce
They both have their regular equipment.

Fight takes place inside a large warehouse.

guy222
Originally posted by masterbruce
They both have their regular equipment.

Fight takes place inside a large warehouse.

capt

jinzin
the same captain america that pulverized giant man, and had hulk reeling from blows?


I'm going with the cap on this one. wink

grey fox
Deathstroke Gut's ULT Cap

SpunkySmurph
Deathstroke.

He has all the physical/mental edges, and I don't recall any extreme showings of skill on Ult. Capt's part.

Warmonger
Deathstroke all the way.Good fight though while this Cap seems to be more vicous than the 616 he doesn't come across as the same skill of fighter.

Also Ult. Cap's high end feats could easily fold into Deathstroke's average feats.

Evil_Ash
Yeah, One-Eyed Willie takes this.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by jinzin
the same captain america that pulverized giant man, and had hulk reeling from blows?


I'm going with the cap on this one. wink

I'd have to agree.

Woah. I feel weird after saying that. sick

marvelprince
Originally posted by jinzin
the same captain america that pulverized giant man, and had hulk reeling from blows?


I'm going with the cap on this one. wink

I agree with Jinzin (how many times do i do that?). Ultimate Cap has shown that he's way stronger, etc than his 616 counterpart and hell of a lot more brutal and vicious. Steve ftw here

Daredevil1
Slade has slightly hurt to my knowledge Wonder Woman, and Cyborg. Ult Cap has impressive damage soak, better durability. I'm not sure on stronger, Slade is a tad more skilled and faster imo.

Slade 6/10

Soljer
Meh, they seem to have about the same strength, but I've seen no great displays of speed on Captain America's part. It seems like Deathstroke would be a lot faster.

And as far as skill goes? Neither combatant is particularly top-tier. Deathstroke is below nightwing level in skill, and we haven't really seen much from Ultimate Cap to put him on 616 Cap's pedestal.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
And as far as skill goes? Neither combatant is particularly top-tier. Deathstroke is below nightwing level in skill, and we haven't really seen much from Ultimate Cap to put him on 616 Cap's pedestal.

Exactly.

For the life of me, I can't understand how someone comes the conclusion that Deathstroke is a top tier martial artist. Every single member of the Bat-family is Slade's superior in h2h combat... hell, both his wife and Wintergreen where supposed to be better fighters then he was... and it isn't like either of them were Lady Shiva or Richard Dragon. Slade is a competent fighter, that's about it, but he makes up for that with cunning and over all physical strength.


That out of the way, Slade takes the slight majority, six maybe seven out of ten.

Warmonger
Well lets see here...

Strength: About the same. Ult Cap seems to be a great deal stronger than his 616counterpart, but he doesn't seem to be overwhelmingly strong. Deathstroke has only afew strength feats but I would put both of them in the lower tonnage range.

Durability/Endurance: Deathstroke> Ult. Cap. In terms of sheer damage soak Ican't say I've seen Cap take the damage that Deathstroke did. We'retalking about a guy taht got punched into a crater by Superboy immediately followed by being lassoed by Wondergirl and swung into a building, then electrocuted by Zeus's lightning and still wasn't knocked out. Not to mention Slade has a healing factor that maybe no wolverine's but it allowed him to get get up after bieng shot three times in the chest with armor pericing bullets.

Agility/Reflexes: Deathsroke> Ult. Cap. Deathstroke hasplenty of insane feats of agility and reflexes. Deathstroke hasshownthe ability to tag both Wally and Bart throughout various points in their career. Not to mention Deathstroke has crossed a 30 foot space fasterthan it took Zatanna to say a single word. Also don't forget that Deathsroke's movemnts give Cassandra Cain a hard time. I can't say I've seen any real impressive agility feats from Ult. Cap

Fighting Skills: Deathsroke> Ult. Cap. Even without his powers Deathstroke has held his own against the comibined abilities of both Aquman and Hal Jordan. Not to mention when he fought Batman the first time his powers were acually fading. (part of the reason he passed out after the fight). HE has held his own or beaten some of the best best fighters in DC. Ult. Cap hasonlyhad two solo, honest fist fights, one agiants that Russian Cap during Ult Secret and against that kid with the SSS inisde of him. I can't say how good afighter that Russian guy was but the Kid was just a goatherd and then he recieved soem training for a few motnhs and was able to match Cap.

Weapons: Ult. Cap>Deathstroke. They cary mostly the same weapons (machine guns, grenades etc) the diffrence is in Slade's energy staff and Cap's sheild. Imeanthat scene during ult. Warwhere he dives in the room and takes out a room fu,ll of guys with a single sheild toss is pretty hard core. Slade doesn't have any memboerable feats of marksmanship, thouhg he is still anexcellent shot. (I don't count that crap with the laser pointer in Identity Crisis)

Overview: I imagine that Slade's major concern is to not get knocked out by a sheild toss he didn't see coming. Because with his armour and duribilty he can stand up to most of Cap's other attacks and dish out more. With his superior fighti9ng skills and reflexs he should bea ble to edge out a tough win against Cap in close though I think a longer rane fightwould go to Cap.

Deathstroke 6/10

Warmonger
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Exactly.

For the life of me, I can't understand how someone comes the conclusion that Deathstroke is a top tier martial artist. Every single member of the Bat-family is Slade's superior in h2h combat... hell, both his wife and Wintergreen where supposed to be better fighters then he was... and it isn't like either of them were Lady Shiva or Richard Dragon. Slade is a competent fighter, that's about it, but he makes up for that with cunning and over all physical strength.


That out of the way, Slade takes the slight majority, six maybe seven out of ten.

Agree. He isa great fighter but not top tier he is just physically superior to most street levelers as well as has an advanced mind. Without his powers Id think Slade would fall some where in the 4th or 5th teir of martial arts.


1st Tei: Shiva, Richard Dragon, Cassandra
2nd Teir: Bronze Tiger, Batman
3rd: Nightwing
4th: Black Canary

???Slade

5th: Robin, Jason Todd, whovever

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Warmonger
Agree. He isa great fighter but not top tier he is just physically superior to most street levelers as well as has an advanced mind. Without his powers Id think Slade would fall some where in the 4th or 5th teir of martial arts.


1st Tei: Shiva, Richard Dragon, Cassandra
2nd Teir: Bronze Tiger, Batman
3rd: Nightwing
4th: Black Canary

???Slade

5th: Robin, Jason Todd, whovever

Black Canary is likely better then Dick now but I aggree with the rest... except Jason Todd, I think he should be higher.

Warmonger
It gets kind of hazy as you go down the list. Yeah Jason Todd probalby goes slightly under Dick.

Black Canary a better fighter than Nightwing? Not so sure. Dick actually has a win or 2 on Slade Black canarygot hammered.HellSlade let her kickhiminthe face as hard as she could just to let herknow that she couldn't hurt him.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Warmonger
It gets kind of hazy as you go down the list. Yeah Jason Todd probalby goes slightly under Dick.

Black Canary a better fighter than Nightwing? Not so sure. Dick actually has a win or 2 on Slade Black canarygot hammered.HellSlade let her kickhiminthe face as hard as she could just to let herknow that she couldn't hurt him.

Have they fought since Canary underwent her Lady Shiva training thing?

masterbruce
Warmonger, great analysis!

Warmonger
Yeah BOP#90: HEad Shots. Fight starts with Huntress firing three crossbow shots while Black Canary simultaniously does some sort of flying snap kick. HE sidesteps the shots but seems to go right into her kick (or out of I'm not sure what the artist intended) and gets kicked in the head by Canary. Who says that he let here get that shot so that she could see she couldn't hurt him. He smacks her and she goes flying.

Then he closes with Helena parries her fist steps into her guardand backhands her in the face. Some big dumb guy named Creote tries to jump him but Slade flip tosses him over his head. Balck Canarygoesat himagain but she feints and draws a breath as if she is going to scream. beforeshe can let the breath out he breaks her arm like a twig since he knew the pain would makle her lose her scream. However Huntresswho waslying on the ground stabs him in the calf with her crossbow bolts. This staggers him for three seconds which isjust enough time for Canary to come up on Slade's blind side and jam two fingers into his good eye.

He reels back but mentions that his eye will heal and that he doesn't need to see them to kill them. (alluding to his heightned senses)Their kind of in standoff and start bluffing each other,but Slade is stillstanding Canary, Huntress and Creote are down.

Warmonger
Originally posted by masterbruce
Warmonger, great analysis!
Good fight. Have a cold one. beer

marvelprince
Originally posted by Warmonger
Agree. He isa great fighter but not top tier he is just physically superior to most street levelers as well as has an advanced mind. Without his powers Id think Slade would fall some where in the 4th or 5th teir of martial arts.


1st Tei: Shiva, Richard Dragon, Cassandra
2nd Teir: Bronze Tiger, Batman
3rd: Nightwing
4th: Black Canary

???Slade

5th: Robin, Jason Todd, whovever

I agree but I think Jason Todd goes higher. Personally I think he's above Nightwing but at the very least he's on the same level

Soljer
Jason Todd should be in a level between Batman and Nightwing - he's a better fighter than Nightwing, but not QUITE Batman's level. In my opinion, at least.

Also, Batman has a winning record against Shiva, and has stalemated Richard Dragon. He has also stalemated Cassandra Cain on at least two occasions, and actually BEAT her on a third. But, during one of the stalemates? He used a single hand for most of the fight, while telling her how piss poor her technique is.

Batman is tier 1. No ifs, ands, or buts.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
Jason Todd should be in a level between Batman and Nightwing - he's a better fighter than Nightwing, but not QUITE Batman's level. In my opinion, at least.

Also, Batman has a winning record against Shiva, and has stalemated Richard Dragon. He has also stalemated Cassandra Cain on at least two occasions, and actually BEAT her on a third. But, during one of the stalemates? He used a single hand for most of the fight, while telling her how piss poor her technique is.

Batman is tier 1. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Batman has never beat Shiva in fair one on one combat, he has admited it. He stalemated Richarad Dragon only because Dragon was holding back and didn't want to fight... and when has Batman ever beat Cass?

Oh, you might want to mention how after Batman told Cass how poor her technique was, he started coughing up blood. I think that makes it pretty clear who actually won that little training bout... unless you think Batman came down with a breif case of tuberculosis.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Warmonger
Yeah BOP#90: HEad Shots. Fight starts with Huntress firing three crossbow shots while Black Canary simultaniously does some sort of flying snap kick. HE sidesteps the shots but seems to go right into her kick (or out of I'm not sure what the artist intended) and gets kicked in the head by Canary. Who says that he let here get that shot so that she could see she couldn't hurt him. He smacks her and she goes flying.

Then he closes with Helena parries her fist steps into her guardand backhands her in the face. Some big dumb guy named Creote tries to jump him but Slade flip tosses him over his head. Balck Canarygoesat himagain but she feints and draws a breath as if she is going to scream. beforeshe can let the breath out he breaks her arm like a twig since he knew the pain would makle her lose her scream. However Huntresswho waslying on the ground stabs him in the calf with her crossbow bolts. This staggers him for three seconds which isjust enough time for Canary to come up on Slade's blind side and jam two fingers into his good eye.

He reels back but mentions that his eye will heal and that he doesn't need to see them to kill them. (alluding to his heightned senses)Their kind of in standoff and start bluffing each other,but Slade is stillstanding Canary, Huntress and Creote are down.

I was talking about here post 1 Year Later training, when Shiva replaced her on the BoP and Canary went to the Vietnam (I think) and underwent Shiva's training process. World of difference between the two.

Beta Ray Howard
Wow. CBR Batgirl in action.

Batman would kick her ass if he actually put forth good effort.

That Leopard Blow would mess her up to no end.

Juntai
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman has never beat Shiva in fair one on one combat, he has admited it. He stalemated Richarad Dragon only because Dragon was holding back and didn't want to fight... and when has Batman ever beat Cass?

Oh, you might want to mention how after Batman told Cass how poor her technique was, he started coughing up blood. I think that makes it pretty clear who actually won that little training bout... unless you think Batman came down with a breif case of tuberculosis. Think what you want, Batman had the killblow on her before the part you're even talking about. She even knew it, her eyes went wide and she didn't even know how to react. He pretty much whooped her with one arm.

Daredevil1
Clear who won? Its clear it was a draw, Cass was on the floor and Batman coughed blood neither won....draw.

The first fight Batman had a small advantage with a pressure point strike on Cass's neck but it was more of a sparring match.

Another sparring match Bats tested to see if Cass could body read and Cass dodged Batman easily.....draw.

Batman 50 both were under drugs as neither won again....draw.

Your right Batman has never beaten Shiva but Shiva has never beaten Batman either. So at the end of the day Batman is still at that A list level with Shiva and Cass.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Clear who won? Its clear it was a draw, Cass was on the floor and Batman coughed blood neither won....draw.

The first fight Batman had a small advantage with a pressure point strike on Cass's neck but it was more of a sparring match.

Another sparring match Bats tested to see if Cass could body read and Cass dodged Batman easily.....draw.

Batman 50 both were under drugs as neither won again....draw.

Your right Batman has never beaten Shiva but Shiva has never beaten Batman either. So at the end of the day Batman is still at that A list level with Shiva and Cass.

If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. sad


Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.

Grimm22
Yeah, Canary's skills seemed to have gotten a boost in the last couple of years.

I would put her only below Batman level in terms of JLA heroes and overall put her in the 3rd-tier

Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.


No he didn't. He landed a few punches but she completely wreaked him... even though she is mind controlled or some junk. He looked like he had been put through a meat grinder.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. sad


Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.



You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

LORDSIDIOUS01
Slade goes down hard.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

Do you know the issue number/title for that book?

Soljer
Originally posted by Daredevil1
You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

thumb up

Devil Lance
Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.
no he didn't roll eyes (sarcastic)

Cass Is so mcuh better than
Example A
These scans show Robin getting his ass kicked by Shrike and then Batgirl coming in to save the day putting down shirke with ease.

http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58049sv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58055pa.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58062vv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58074wg.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58087at.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58090zv.jpg


Example B
Cass owning tim again while training him
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage286wd.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage292th.jpg

Example C
Batgirl takes down a group of thugs with high powered guns before Batgirl can even react.
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage326cy.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage334ea.jpg

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

Your mouth is were blood generally exists when you cough it up... confused

What does Bruce landing hits have do withing anything? Of course he landed hits, just because he isn't as skilled as Batgirl doesn't mean he is an invilid. And Batman was trying to avoid a fight at the very beginning, when they were in the grave yard, not the whole fight. He wanted to fight, and he was trying to win. Thats why he was using Bat'o'rangs and flash pellets; hell, he dumbed an entire load of lumber of a train welling trying to get the upper hand. Why do you think Dick thought he needed to stop Bruce from fighting if he wasn't serious? Fact is Cass was in control the whole fight, and all she was trying to do was kiss Batman.

The fight in Detective Comics was just Batman and Cass communicating, it was a friendly spar... one that happened right after Batgirl regain consciousness from a several story fall.

Lady Shiva thinks Connar is better then Batman... Nightwing implied that Connar was better. Why would that be? Maybe cause Connar is a better fighter then Batman?

Daredevil1
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Your mouth is were blood generally exists when you cough it up... confused

What does Bruce landing hits have do withing anything? Of course he landed hits, just because he isn't as skilled as Batgirl doesn't mean he is an invilid. And Batman was trying to avoid a fight at the very beginning, when they were in the grave yard, not the whole fight. He wanted to fight, and he was trying to win. Thats why he was using Bat'o'rangs and flash pellets; hell, he dumbed an entire load of lumber of a train welling trying to get the upper hand. Why do you think Dick thought he needed to stop Bruce from fighting if he wasn't serious? Fact is Cass was in control the whole fight, and all she was trying to do was kiss Batman.

The fight in Detective Comics was just Batman and Cass communicating, it was a friendly spar... one that happened right after Batgirl regain consciousness from a several story fall.

Lady Shiva thinks Connar is better then Batman... Nightwing implied that Connar was better. Why would that be? Maybe cause Connar is a better fighter then Batman?

Blood can come from the gums to the inside of our cheeks you know, to even our tongue.

She was only trying to kiss him up close but on the outside she was fighting him. Also Bats was on the defensive because he wasn't trying to fight and was probably still holding back, so I doubt he was using his weapons lethally. Point is stalemate which you want to try to ignore.

The Detective fight she did fell but it showed Batman plunging for her as well. It never showed Cass hit the ground and it no were showed Batman grabbing her either, so the scene is irrelevant. Bats had the upperhand in that battle.

Nightwing implied it by ranking since Batman has not fought a full out fight with Shiva. But if you look at his record against Shiva its not too Shabby.

First fight Shiva was testing Bruce and Batman dodged her two strikes easily.

Second fight Robin interrupted the fight but Batman held his own unarmed, while Shiva used a weapons nun-chucks to be exact.

Third fight Batman easily defeated a mind-controlled Shiva. Which I don't count but the above fights demonstrate the exact opposite of what your saying.

Do you have any type of actuall proof to show that Bats would lose like you know showing Cass straight up KO Bats or Shiva KO Bats?

ExtraMision5555
sounsd like someones being outnumbered!

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. sad


Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.

thumb up

Deathstroke
Why did Batman and Batgirl take over my boy's thread?

jasonk3
Ultimate Steve Rogers FTW

Juntai
Originally posted by Devil Lance
no he didn't roll eyes (sarcastic)

Cass Is so mcuh better than
Example A
These scans show Robin getting his ass kicked by Shrike and then Batgirl coming in to save the day putting down shirke with ease.

http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58049sv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58055pa.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58062vv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58074wg.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58087at.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58090zv.jpg


Example B
Cass owning tim again while training him
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage286wd.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage292th.jpg

Example C
Batgirl takes down a group of thugs with high powered guns before Batgirl can even react.
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage326cy.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage334ea.jpg None of those are OYL, which is the case in Robin 150 and 151, in which Robin, even already beat up after getting jumped from behind fights off a few dozen League of Assassin Ninjas, then confronts Cass - who was avoiding him, goes to toe to toe with her.
Guess who's the one that dissapeared from the Battlefield?
And I'll also not fail to mention....
His arm was messed up, before that even began...he was even making comments about he was having to fight them off one handed.

Juntai
After fighting off all the ninjas.

Robin jacks her in the mouth, she spits blood.
She tackles into him and flips off.
He gets up pulling out explosives, she kicks the pellets away.
She grabs ahold of him, looking like she's trying to snap his neck.
He elbows her in the stomach.
Then jacks her in the face again, hard.
And then again, with a follow-up.
She blocks the next punch.
She lands ONE KICK.
An explosion goes off.
Cass leaves the fight.

Sounds like a beating to me.

And this was while he was already all beat up.
And her in fresh condition.

Soljer
Originally posted by Juntai
After fighting off all the ninjas.

Robin jacks her in the mouth, she spits blood.
She tackles into him and flips off.
He gets up pulling out explosives, she kicks the pellets away.
She grabs ahold of him, looking like she's trying to snap his neck.
He elbows her in the stomach.
Then jacks her in the face again, hard.
And then again, with a follow-up.
She blocks the next punch.
She lands ONE KICK.
An explosion goes off.
Cass leaves the fight.

Sounds like a beating to me.

And this was while he was already all beat up.
And her in fresh condition.

big grin.

Let the Cass hype be ended?

Deathstroke
Deathstroke kills Ult. Cap. then kills Batman and Cass. for encroaching on his thread.

starlock
i will go with deathstroke for the win

Draco69
Originally posted by Juntai
After fighting off all the ninjas.

Robin jacks her in the mouth, she spits blood.
She tackles into him and flips off.
He gets up pulling out explosives, she kicks the pellets away.
She grabs ahold of him, looking like she's trying to snap his neck.
He elbows her in the stomach.
Then jacks her in the face again, hard.
And then again, with a follow-up.
She blocks the next punch.
She lands ONE KICK.
An explosion goes off.
Cass leaves the fight.

Sounds like a beating to me.

And this was while he was already all beat up.
And her in fresh condition.

A) It was written by Breechen who knows NOTHING about Batgirl and completely butchered her character. Batgirl was jobbing horrifically against Robin and she would have dropped his ass in a picosecond.

B) In the very same issue, Robin SOMEHOW managed to get the better of friggin' Lady Shiva

C) Batgirl's under the influence of Deathstroke

D) It was crappy writing nearly on par with Jeph Loeb and you know it.


It's PIS and therefore discounted here on KMC.

One lousy year of training (or vacationing by the looks of it in 52 )does not suddenly make Robin a Shiva/Richard Dragon/Batgirl level character.

Bullsh*t...

Devil Lance
Originally posted by Draco69
A) It was written by Breechen who knows NOTHING about Batgirl and completely butchered her character. Batgirl was jobbing horrifically against Robin and she would have dropped his ass in a picosecond.

B) In the very same issue, Robin SOMEHOW managed to get the better of friggin' Lady Shiva

C) Batgirl's under the influence of Deathstroke

D) It was crappy writing nearly on par with Jeph Loeb and you know it.


It's PIS and therefore discounted here on KMC.

One lousy year of training (or vacationing by the looks of it in 52 )does not suddenly make Robin a Shiva/Richard Dragon/Batgirl level character.

Bullsh*t...

yes
exactly

Juntai
Originally posted by Devil Lance
yes
exactly

A)He's the writer. Not you. I'm sure you didn't have any complaints about the way she is portrayed when the same writer had her blindside Robin and KO him earlier in the series.

B)I don't see Lady Shiva in the issue, unless you're speaking of a following one? In this one, he breaks out David Cain, and fights the ninjas and Cass.

C)Doesn't mean she lost her ability to fight.

D) I dissagree, the way he managed to do it was explained away. One human hitting another isn't quite PIS. A good/bad showing .... maybe.... PIS? No. That would be if Robin was tossing around Cyborg or something.

Draco69
Originally posted by Juntai
A)He's the writer. Not you. I'm sure you didn't have any complaints about the way she is portrayed when the same writer had her blindside Robin and KO him earlier in the series.

Bullsh**. Hudlin's also a writer. Loeb is also a writer. Chuck Austen is also a writer.

And all of us think they're jackasses.

Writer does not equal comic knowledge.

Beechen specifically apologized in an interview to Batgirl fans that he didn't know ANYTHING about Batgirl and he thought she would be a good villain for Robin like Shiva is to Batman. That's it. He admitted he didn't read up on her history.

Which is why Cassandra could suddenly speak fluently, read Navajo and suddenly hate her father when her history specifically states she doesn't.

NONE of it made sense. She was angry at Cain because he had other proteges? She ALREADY knew that. And she didn't have a problem with it. There were just so many errors and mistakes in the story. Its the equivalent of writing a story about Superman suddenly being revealed as a Martian rather than a Kryptonian and that the reason he was a superhero was because he wanted to impress Lois Lane.

THAT's how bad he got Batgirl wrong.

If he doesn't even know the basic background knowledge of Batgirl, OF COURSE she's gonna job to Robin in the fight. The mere fact that he didn't know Batgirl makes his entire story PIS....

erm

Originally posted by Juntai
B)I don't see Lady Shiva in the issue, unless you're speaking of a following one? In this one, he breaks out David Cain, and fights the ninjas and Cass.

Robin actually managed to DEFLECT Shiva's attack, kick her in the stomach THEN manage to get Shiva down on the ground in a stranglehold.

The scene was vile.

no expression

Originally posted by Juntai
C)Doesn't mean she lost her ability to fight.


Clearly she lost not only her friggin' character but also her fighting ability by the hack Beechen.

Cassandra is TOP-TIER. Robin is NOT.

It's like comparing Richard Dragon to friggin' Spoiler.

Or Iron Fist to Aunt May.

The difference in skill is THAT much. Robin isn't anywhere near Cain or Batman or Shiva or Dragon's skill level.

Originally posted by Juntai
D) I dissagree, the way he managed to do it was explained away.

How?

erm

Cain was having her period at the time and her tampon fell out?


Originally posted by Juntai
One human hitting another isn't quite PIS. A good/bad showing .... maybe.... PIS? No. That would be if Robin was tossing around Cyborg or something.

Robin shouldn't have landed a SINGLE blow to Cain. It's enormous PIS. It's like Jarvis the Butler managing to bloody Shang Chi's nose.

And Batgirl clearly isn't human. She can dodge friggin' bullets at point-blank range. But she can't dodge Robin? Especially with her ability to know what he's going to do before he even THINKS about doing it let alone doing it in the first place?

The entire issue was bull. Beechen admitted it. Geoff Johns admitted. Hell DC admitted it and they scrambled to repair Batgirl in TT by using Deathstroke.

Beechen plainly stated that Batgirl was going to be bad for absolutely no reason.

Daredevil1
Link? Woudn't mind reading that?

Draco69
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Link? Woudn't mind reading that?

Go to Comicbookresources.com, I think that's where it is.

He even admitted that he didn't know about Batgirl's dyslexia...

To me that's like a writer saying: "I didn't know Daredevil was BLIND?!"

Soleran
Originally posted by Draco69
Bullsh**. Hudlin's also a writer. Loeb is also a writer. Chuck Austen is also a writer.

And all of us think they're jackasses.

Writer does not equal comic knowledge.

Beechen specifically apologized in an interview to Batgirl fans that he didn't know ANYTHING about Batgirl and he thought she would be a good villain for Robin like Shiva is to Batman. That's it. He admitted he didn't read up on her history.

Which is why Cassandra could suddenly speak fluently, read Navajo and suddenly hate her father when her history specifically states she doesn't.

NONE of it made sense. She was angry at Cain because he had other proteges? She ALREADY knew that. And she didn't have a problem with it. There were just so many errors and mistakes in the story. Its the equivalent of writing a story about Superman suddenly being revealed as a Martian rather than a Kryptonian and that the reason he was a superhero was because he wanted to impress Lois Lane.

THAT's how bad he got Batgirl wrong.

If he doesn't even know the basic background knowledge of Batgirl, OF COURSE she's gonna job to Robin in the fight. The mere fact that he didn't know Batgirl makes his entire story PIS....

erm



Robin actually managed to DEFLECT Shiva's attack, kick her in the stomach THEN manage to get Shiva down on the ground in a stranglehold.

The scene was vile.

no expression




Clearly she lost not only her friggin' character but also her fighting ability by the hack Beechen.

Cassandra is TOP-TIER. Robin is NOT.

It's like comparing Richard Dragon to friggin' Spoiler.

Or Iron Fist to Aunt May.

The difference in skill is THAT much. Robin isn't anywhere near Cain or Batman or Shiva or Dragon's skill level.



How?

erm

Cain was having her period at the time and her tampon fell out?




Robin shouldn't have landed a SINGLE blow to Cain. It's enormous PIS. It's like Jarvis the Butler managing to bloody Shang Chi's nose.

And Batgirl clearly isn't human. She can dodge friggin' bullets at point-blank range. But she can't dodge Robin? Especially with her ability to know what he's going to do before he even THINKS about doing it let alone doing it in the first place?

The entire issue was bull. Beechen admitted it. Geoff Johns admitted. Hell DC admitted it and they scrambled to repair Batgirl in TT by using Deathstroke.

Beechen plainly stated that Batgirl was going to be bad for absolutely no reason.

I think your response is to much, thankssmile

Draco69
Originally posted by Soleran
I think your response is to much, thankssmile


SAVE CASS DAMMIT!!!!


tank

marvelprince
Originally posted by Draco69
SAVE CASS DAMMIT!!!!


tank

I agree. I was appalled at DC editoral letting Beechen get away with character assasination like that. Obviously he didn't know anything about Cass except for her name and was making up stuff as he went along. At least Johns is trying to cobble together an explanation as to why she's acting the way she's been acting.

Deathstroke
I liked this thread so much more when it was about Deathstroke beating Cap. sad

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by marvelprince
I agree. I was appalled at DC editoral letting Beechen get away with character assasination like that. Obviously he didn't know anything about Cass except for her name and was making up stuff as he went along. At least Johns is trying to cobble together an explanation as to why she's acting the way she's been acting.

... DC told Beechen that Cassandra was to be turned into a Nemesis for Robin, the reasoning was up to him but it wasn't his idea.

I'm not particularly found of her recent characterisation, but is it that far of a stretch for a teenager with Cassandra's back ground to suffer a psychotic break? I don't think so. DC should have had the balls to stick with their decision, the whole "she is on drugs" thing, cheapens everything.

Juntai
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... DC told Beechen that Cassandra was to be turned into a Nemesis for Robin, the reasoning was up to him but it wasn't his idea.

I'm not particularly found of her recent characterisation, but is it that far of a stretch for a teenager with Cassandra's back ground to suffer a psychotic break? I don't think so. DC should have had the balls to stick with their decision, the whole "she is on drugs" thing, cheapens everything. Agreed.

Newjak
Originally posted by Deathstroke
I liked this thread so much more when it was about Deathstroke beating Cap. sad I agree as well

Soleran
Originally posted by Draco69
SAVE CASS DAMMIT!!!!


tank

My badsmile

Cass should win

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