Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I made an oath to avoid this forum until the "gangbang PS3 ROWRZZZ" fad died down but I'm interested in hearing opinions about the "success" of the Blu-Ray.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=96008

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12660

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/05/ps3-driving-blu-ray-movie-sales-outpacing-hd-dvd/


http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11782

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/02/sony_ps3_drivin.html


So far it seems that Blu-Ray is winning the format war. And the gamble to make PS3 a Blu-Ray player in order to push their format has payed off. Which I really don't give a flying f*ck about since I believe that BOTH formats will ultimately lose to digital downloading.

Anyhoo, what interests me is how this will affect the PS3.

If (if it hasn't already) Blu-Ray gains dominance over HD-DVD, how will this affect the price of the PS3? Economic models tell us that the price of hardware will go down and the costs of making the hardware will go down.

Most analysts predict that Blu-Ray's dominance will not only collect large profit margins for Sony (possibly making up for their losses for the battery crisis and the PS3 costs) as well as a possible price drop for PS3 in the future.

Cheaper hardware + cheaper costs = Cheaper PS3?

Was this Sony's plan all along? Push the PS3 to win the format war even at its high price...than after winning the format war and gaining market dominance over high-definition formats lowering the price since the market is in their control?

Another question to ask is how this will affect Microsoft? Their game console has an optional HD-DVD player accessory but if HD-DVD tanks, they may be forced to use a Blu-Ray player accessory...if they can...or even if they want to.

Analysts also predict with Blu-Ray dominance, the price of the PS3 in the future could easily drop somewhere near Xbox 360.

Of course it's all speculation and too early to tell (a lesson we should ALL learn....) but it is interesting.

And it shows that perhaps Sony is more crafty than it appears.

Damn Slytherins they be....

Well, let's see....currently the Wii isn't offering neither Blu-ray or HD DVD. It's selling much more faster than the PS3.

So far...Sony's plan as far as Blu-ray goes nowhere.

As far as predicitions...well, they always take place in the future...not the present. So if Sony is looking towards the future rather than what is really happening....tough luck.

Btw- Since we're now in the proper forum...Explain exactly what you mean with this post.

Originally posted by Draco69


Personally, I just easily laugh at idiots who buy a Wii for 250 bucks when all it has is Zelda and sloppy shooter. Unless you're into games like Open Season and Spongebob Squarepants. Which I have no doubt you are...

The Wii doesn't have anything to do with this thread....



It's selling like hotcakes due to it's gameplay appeal, hype and low price.

For what I see Sony is focusing on capital. Which may prove smart. Like Microsoft attempts to monopolize the the software market, Sony is trying to monopolize a sector of the electronic market. And it may prove to work very well in their favor.

However it may hurt consumers because they will lack choice. It may also benefit consumers because they have only one brand to choose from and it's cheap.

Also with HD increasingly becoming more standardized (in 2009 all analog TV will be shut off, we'll only be left with digital/HD signals) it's reasonable to assume that Sony is trying to put a very large stake in the future.

With the impending European launch, (with pre-orders records surpassing the Xbox and Wii by nearly a dozen times), it may prove to be the final stroke against HD-DVD.

If THAT happens, the format will experience a down cycle of price and availablity. The price will go down tremendously (possibly being just as expensive as a DVD) and the market will be under Sony's control.

Another factor is that several countries like Australia are in fact banning HD-DVD and becoming exclusive to Blu-Ray.

However I don't know how this will affect digital downloading.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf


Btw- Since we're now in the proper forum...Explain exactly what you mean with this post.


Personally, I just easily laugh at idiots who buy a Wii for 250 bucks when all it has is Zelda and sloppy shooter. Unless you're into games like Open Season and Spongebob Squarepants. Which I have no doubt you are...


See. This is why I don't think you should be a moderator. You took my sentence out of context. And you know it.



THIS is what I said:

Originally posted by Draco69
Um. No. Never said it was a bargain. I don't possess any of the three next-gen systems. Not worth the money since they don't have a big library and they're all too expensive. Why anyone would purchase these systems so early in their shelflife is beyond me...

Personally, I just easily laugh at idiots who buy a Wii for 250 bucks when all it has is Zelda and sloppy shooter. Unless you're into games like Open Season and Spongebob Squarepants. Which I have no doubt you are...

In reply to this childish remark:

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
What an incredible retort from a 20 year old who thinks the PS3 is a bargain at $600.00 and no games.

I stated that buying a PS3 AND a Wii this early was rather stupid to me since they had a very small library of games and were rather expensive.


Why you were made moderator is beyond me...

Anyhoo, I think Microsoft may have made a mistake (emphasis on MAY).

If they had intergrated the HD-DVD drive (therefore making it as expensive as the PS3) the Xbox 360's early arrival could have made the HD-DVD format win the format war early.

Unless everyone reacted the same to that as they did to the PS3.

Microsoft also seems to be rather sluggish with their support of HD-DVD. I personally think it's just a stall until they get their HD movies available on Xbox Live. Which may default the win to digital online videos. However Sony has remarkable control over the movie industry and they're making buyable movies on their online (though crappy...) service as well.

Originally posted by Draco69
The Wii doesn't have anything to do with this thread....



It's selling like hotcakes due to it's gameplay appeal, hype and low price.



Umm...yes it does...as long as you mention competition between the PS3 and Xbox 360 in any form, shape or content the Wii will always be there. Some of your arguments are base on predictions...that really isn't helping much.

I predict in 2010 people will still be watching regular DVD movies. See? it's easy to predict.



Maybe they should focus on gaming. That's where the real capital lies. Currently I can't put smart and Sony together...really, I can't.



I find that hard to believe. But is possible that Blu-ray players will sell more than PS3. Last I read Australia is among the biggest buyers of Xbox 360.



Nothing it's been taking out of context. That is why if you click "quote" anyone can read what it says. I'm not looking for a fight...Draco. I asked a simple question.



How you keep backpedaling and changing your opion is also beyond me.

Please keep on topic guys, before the thread degenerates into a flame war.

As to the subject... I have no doubt that normal DVDs are still selling far better than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. It's always been my opinion that both formats just aren't different enough from the current accepted format to really be worthwhile to the average consumer.

Microsoft's action in making HD-DVD an accessory to the 360 instead of a mandatory feature was, in my mind, smart. It's there for the tech-savvy (who are really the only ones that want the new formats and actually have the money to buy them), but the price for the console itself stays lower, so that people who just don't care don't have to pay extra for what they don't want.

I'm actually a bit confused as to why this is here, as the Blu-ray/HD-DVD war really isn't video game related.

And if this is simply going to be "which is better of the PS3 and 360" then it should go in the Next-Gen thread.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Umm...yes it does...as long as you mention competition between the PS3 and Xbox 360 in any form, shape or content the Wii will always be there. Some of your arguments are base on predictions...that really isn't helping much.

Are you capable of reading.

The purpose (as indicated by title of thread...) is to discuss the Blu-Ray's current dominance over HD-DVD and how it will affect Sony's PS3 activities.

It has NOTHING to with the Wii as they don't even play DVDs. It's to discuss how Blu-Ray dominance may work in favor or not in favor of the PS3.

The Xbox 360 isn't even involved as they rather exempt from the format war as they have an optional accessory...



Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I predict in 2010 people will still be watching regular DVD movies. See? it's easy to predict.

Well, considering it's 2007 and it's not even three years down the line and there's no indication of DVDs starting to falter that's not a very impressive prediction....





Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Maybe they should focus on gaming. That's where the real capital lies. Currently I can't put smart and Sony together...really, I can't.

I agree they should put more focus on gaming but they're an electronics corporation first and foremost.

The "real" capital can lie in Blu-Ray if they win the format war. You don't understand the reprecussions. They would monopolize (which is bad...) an entire market. With increasing HD emphasis taking place around the world, they may gain the biggest capital in years.

Can you imagine a single corporation monopolize the rights to DVD?



Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I find that hard to believe. But is possible that Blu-ray players will sell more than PS3. Last I read Australia is among the biggest buyers of Xbox 360.

Currently Blu-Ray players only represent the 6% of the Blu-Ray market. PS3 makes up the 94%.

If Blu-Ray does gain dominance, the Blu-Ray players will quickly drop in price. So yes, they may eventually outsell the PS3. However if the Blu-Ray players drop in price, so would the PS3. Logically, most people (unless they want a high-end Blu-Ray player) will ultimately want a Blu-Ray Player that can also play games.

Australia doesn't have the PS3 yet. However the pre-orders of the PS3 are nearly 12 times that of the PS3. It's just an indicator of demand granted but since Sony actually has the supply to meet the demand this time...




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Nothing it's been taking out of context. That is why if you click "quote" anyone can read what it says. I'm not looking for a fight...Draco. I asked a simple question.


Um. Yeah. You did. Don't lie. You clearly tried to imply that I was anti-Wii. You cut out the OTHER portion of my statement that indicated my reasoning. It was right up my other statement.

And I did answer the question.





Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
How you keep backpedaling and changing your opion is also beyond me.

I haven't changed my opinion. You just can't grasp an opinion that's fair-handed to all sides of the arguement. You're clearly lack a sense of looking at all sides of an debate and you clearly putting yourself squarely in one camp and deriding the other camp with insults and senseless comments.

You're saying: Sony SUCKS!! ROWRXX.

I'm saying: Sony sucks in some ways as does Xbox and Wii.

I'm actually AGAINST Sony dominating the HD market. It's monopoly plain and simple.

Originally posted by Lana
I'm actually a bit confused as to why this is here, as the Blu-ray/HD-DVD war really isn't video game related.

And if this is simply going to be "which is better of the PS3 and 360" then it should go in the Next-Gen thread.

It's not related to Wii and barely related to Xbox, but it's certainly related to the PS3.

If anyone would stop and THINK for a moment. If Blu-Ray DOES gain dominance would happen to the PS3?

Economics tell us it would create a upsurge of demand and supply for the PS3 and it would lower it's price.

From an early perspective, it looks like the "Let's Copy PS2's success model" has worked.

And with the impending European/Australian launch in March as well as Europe and Australia's overwhelming support for Blu-Ray, Sony may very well monopolize the market and pull the proverbial rug out of their competitor's.

Originally posted by Lana
I'm actually a bit confused as to why this is here, as the Blu-ray/HD-DVD war really isn't video game related.

And if this is simply going to be "which is better of the PS3 and 360" then it should go in the Next-Gen thread.

Seems it's because the discussion is in direct relation to the video game industry and not the film or TV industry.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Please keep on topic guys, before the thread degenerates into a flame war.

THAT'S what a moderator does. Not START one.



Originally posted by General Kaliero
As to the subject... I have no doubt that normal DVDs are still selling far better than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. It's always been my opinion that both formats just aren't different enough from the current accepted format to really be worthwhile to the average consumer.

DVD's will obviously dominate the formats for quite some time. However with the increasing popularity of HDTVs as they become cheaper and more accessible to all households, the impending switch from analog TV as mandatory from the federal government to HD signals, and the possible dominance of Blu-Ray thus driving the prices down to DVD level (they're already decreasing in price rapidly), and the possible decrease in PS3 price due to Blu-Ray dominance, the Blu-Ray may well become a standard as DVD in the future.

However Apple could one up them all with digital HD movies.


Originally posted by General Kaliero
Microsoft's action in making HD-DVD an accessory to the 360 instead of a mandatory feature was, in my mind, smart. It's there for the tech-savvy (who are really the only ones that want the new formats and actually have the money to buy them), but the price for the console itself stays lower, so that people who just don't care don't have to pay extra for what they don't want.

It's smart from a consumer perspective. But it may prove their downfall.

If Blu-Ray gains dominance, the price of hardware decreases exponentially. The cost of making the hardward decreases exponentially. It's reasonable to assume that if the costs of hardware decreases, the PS3 price will decrease as well. Unless Sony keeps the price where it is and gains an enormous profit (much like Apple with their ridiculously overpriced Ipods...)

To me he is discussing the issue of DVD HD and Blu-ray as related to the Video Game industry. If that's the case than both fall flat as far as helping their respective consoles.

Now, if he is looking to discuss who will win the format.

Then Draco...go here:

>>>http://www.killermovies.com/forums/439274_1-hd-dvd-blu-ray-dual-format-players<<<

"Video Games...are my thang..."

As far as teh topic goes, it certainly would be interesting to see MS be forced to make a Blue-Ray attachment for their system, it would almost be admitting defeat, since from day one they've backed HD-DVD.

And if Blu-ray winning the war means the PS3's price will drop (which is rather reasonable) then I do hope they win, and soon, so I can get a PS3. It's getting to the point where I actually want one soon, there are actually some games coming out now that I'm rather interested in and would love to play.

Still, it's going to take more than the PS3 to win it for Bluray. I mean, about a year ago many people were thinking HD-DVD would win because of the horrible start Bluray got off to, with their poorly made players, inferior picture and doubled up price over HD-DVD, and now it's almost flipped flopped, too early now to see who is going to win. Sucks too, I wish the format war would end, it's ****ing stupid.

Okay...so? Blu-ray is brand new tech that the average person probably has no clue what it is. And...how many PS3s are on the market anyway? Not many.

I see those numbers to mean that most people really don't care a terrible amount about blu-ray and only own a player because a PS3 is one by default.

Which is why this entire thing is very misleading. The number of blu-ray vs. HD-DVD movies is what should be looked at, at the very least in tandem with player sales.

I wouldnt call it a sucess, I would just say Blu-Ray is sucking less than HD-DVD. lol


I dont really care, im still buying the 360 add on the next couple weeks. Gonna watch Departed in HD.

Originally posted by BackFire
As far as teh topic goes, it certainly would be interesting to see MS be forced to make a Blue-Ray attachment for their system, it would almost be admitting defeat, since from day one they've backed HD-DVD.

And if Blu-ray winning the war means the PS3's price will drop (which is rather reasonable) then I do hope they win, and soon, so I can get a PS3. It's getting to the point where I actually want one soon, there are actually some games coming out now that I'm rather interested in and would love to play.

Still, it's going to take more than the PS3 to win it for Bluray. I mean, about a year ago many people were thinking HD-DVD would win because of the horrible start Bluray got off to, with their poorly made players, inferior picture and doubled up price over HD-DVD, and now it's almost flipped flopped, too early now to see who is going to win. Sucks too, I wish the format war would end, it's ****ing stupid.


That's the thing. It's kinda BAD. It's monopoly. If Blu-Ray becomes the DVD II in the near future, Sony would possess an incredible hold of many markets.

Computers. Movies. Games. Music. Think of all things DVD is related to.

EVERYONE would be paying them money in one form or another.

It's the most crafty and devious business move in history in my opinion.

Originally posted by Lana
Okay...so? Blu-ray is brand new tech that the average person probably has no clue what it is. And...how many PS3s are on the market anyway? Not many.

For now. It's not yet released in Europe and Australia. If Blu-Ray dominating already in USA and Japan, can you imagine what would happen when it releases in Europe and the Aussie? Especially since Australia plans to go Blu-Ray exclusive?

Tobisha would have to pull of something VERY good.

Originally posted by Lana
I see those numbers to mean that most people really don't care a terrible amount about blu-ray and only own a player because a PS3 is one by default.

Actually no. If you look it up, Blu-Ray discs are outselling HD-DVD by a 3 to 1 margin both past and present. Apparently those who DO care about Blu-Ray are buying them.

Also it's quite remarkable despite being the most expensive console and Xbox 360 being less expensive and more user-friendly and with a year head start that PS3 alone gained the dominance.

If Xbox 360 had released the accessory earlier, HD-DVD could have very well won the war early.

Originally posted by AstroFan
I wouldnt call it a sucess, I would just say Blu-Ray is sucking less than HD-DVD. lol


I dont really care, im still buying the 360 add on the next couple weeks. Gonna watch Departed in HD.

I wouldn't advise it. HD-DVD is losing currently. And it may win. Or it may lose. And round it goes.

I wouldn't buy a format if it could possibly exit the market in a few months.

I would wait until the dust settles.

Neither format is going to exit the market for at least a few years, sadly. A few months, absolutely not.

I'll acknowledge that.

But really it you take a big, grand look: Sony's sheer stupidity in the past few months may well be a cover for Machiavellian genius. Their plan is all coming together.

And WrathfulDwarf is right to some extent, they ultimately don't care about the games. It's just a part of their tendrils in the global market They REALLY care about market dominance in electronics. Which is what they've been trying to do for years and they may very well succeed this time around.

And I don't like it. As an economist, I despise any and all forms of monopoly.

Originally posted by Draco69
I wouldn't advise it. HD-DVD is losing currently. And it may win. Or it may lose. And round it goes.

I wouldn't buy a format if it could possibly exit the market in a few months.

I would wait until the dust settles.



Thanks for the advice, but im still getting one. I doubt any format will when in the next few years if ever, i know people who still watch their VHSs on their 20 inch tvs.

This isnt like when DVD came out and could work with most tvs, these new usually $1000 players require usually $1000 plus tvs.

Originally posted by AstroFan
Thanks for the advice, but im still getting one. I doubt any format will when in the next few years if ever, i know people who still watch their VHSs on their 20 inch tvs.

This isnt like when DVD came out and could work with most tvs, these new usually $1000 players require usually $1000 plus tvs.

I would normally agree except for one large factor. In 2009, ALL analog programming will be disabled. And from then on it will only be HD signals.

Using logic, the ban on analog and mandatory enforcement of HD signals will force many consumers to consider HDTVs.

The government has also stated that they will be putting a price ceiling on TVs if necessary.

That means HDTVs price will come down tremendously.

And many people out of either necessity or demand for one will get one.

And if Blu-Ray gains dominance beforehand, most people will see Blu-Ray in conjunction with their HDTVs as "DVD II".

Nearly the same thing happened with the translation from black and white television to exclusive color television. Color television back then was considered a luxury item much like HDTVs. Until the government made it mandatory for all signals to be in color. And the price of color televisions dropped tremendously as it was accessible to nearly any customer.

Which I think is pretty crappy for the government to do but...

All analog programming will be disabled and will be turned to digital, that doesn't mean it will only be available in HD, no. Regular TV's are capable of accepting digital signals.

DVD itself is a digital signal, yet my 8-9-year-old RCA TV can still display DVDs.

Digital =/= High Definition.

I'm not saying that HDTVs will be mandatory. I'm saying with decreasing prices of HDTVs (and a tremendous price drop) and readily available HD signals in the future, many consumers may want to take the next step with High Definition discs.

However it stands to reason that DVDs may be even cheaper if TVs will regularly be displaying DVD-like appearances.

But you just missed the point, Draco. Mandatory digital signals do not automatically mean everything will be broadcast in HD. Heck, that doesn't even mean that more companies will look into HD. My family has HD-enabled satellite TV, but the only HD channels we have are a few locals and a couple history/science-related channels.

I'm willing to bet that everything stays status quo for the most part.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm not saying that HDTVs will be mandatory. I'm saying with decreasing prices of HDTVs (and a tremendous price drop) and readily available HD signals in the future, many consumers may want to take the next step with High Definition discs.

However it stands to reason that DVDs may be even cheaper if TVs will regularly be displaying DVD-like appearances.

Actually, you kind of did. You made an entire post about how analog TV signals will be shutting off in a couple years and that all will be available is HD.

Which isn't true. What will be available is digital. HD is digital, but digital certainly isn't necessarily HD. My family has had digital TV for going on 5 years but certainly do not own an HDTV nor really intend to buy one anytime in the near future.

And are there actually any sales numbers for blu-ray movies and HD-DVD movies? Because, really, even if blu-ray's doing better, I doubt it's really selling a lot. I know at my store we actually sent back all of our blu-ray movies because we hadn't sold a single one in 2 months, and they were just taking up space and collecting dust...

Oh it won't sell (greatly that is) for a while. You're misunderstanding me. What you need to grasp is the capital benefit of Blu-Ray to Sony. None of this will happen for about two or three years.

Sony's monopoly strategy is long-term. Not short-term. We won't see real results for awhile.

The entire purpose of this thread is to show the long-term monopolistic strategy of the Blu-Ray format.

The economic model I showed hasn't even happened yet.

So yeah, what you seeing is the short term. Not the long-term. These things don't happen instantly. Technology NEVER happens instantly.

I never look into predictions.

Remember 2-3 years ago people predicted Sony will win the handheld war with its multitalented and expansive PSP.

As for the PS3, its doing well but its not doing extremely well, as much as you say that Sony doesnt care about the gaming aspect but I think it's stupid to think that. The PS3 will only sell well if gamers want to buy it. As of right now, gamers (not talking about hardcore gamers) are buying the Wii.

I just dont think casual consumers will care that much about HD movies.

If Sony's strategy rests solely on the PS3 to win the format wars that would mean that the PS3 has to sell extremely well. And it has to be because of the games, not Blu Ray. But will casual gamers want to be the most expansive machine out there?

I wonder if the PS3 having built in Blu Ray player has anything to do with the thread topic

Originally posted by LinixCobra
I wonder if the PS3 having built in Blu Ray player has anything to do with the thread topic

I'm willing to bet it's everything to do with it, since one of Draco's posts stated that 94% of blu-ray players are PS3s.

And Draco, long-term strategies mean nothing if it doesn't catch on fairly early. Remember laser discs, mini-discs, and now UMDs? Everyone thought they'd be huge. They all flopped.

Originally posted by Lana
I'm willing to bet it's everything to do with it, since one of Draco's posts stated that 94% of blu-ray players are PS3s.

Then whats the point of this thread???

Another 'Duh' moment I guess.

also, whats this about australia being blue ray1 excelusive???
this is the first ive heard about it, and i highly f*king doubt that it's true, since the 360 sold 100 000 in one month, and the wii sold nearly 90 000 in a week here..

HD-DVD is retarded..... so its obvious blu-ray would sell out against something thats worse than itself

For someone who does not like being quoted out of context, you sure as hell are hazy with your thread title, Draco. It's an outright lie. I guess you lied, however, because the title

"Blue-Ray outsells HD-DVD by more like two and a half times in one week in January but overall HD-DVD has still sold more"

Would have been a bit crap. But then so is your reasoning in not mentioning that. Likewise your reasoning in saying Australia has 'banned' HD-DVDs.

Anyway, the monopoly fears will most likely simply collapse once dual-format players come to the fore.

Originally posted by MadMel
also, whats this about australia being blue ray1 excelusive???
this is the first ive heard about it, and i highly f*king doubt that it's true, since the 360 sold 100 000 in one month, and the wii sold nearly 90 000 in a week here..

I think it was you or maybe Mist who said that the PS3 was going to be somewhere around $900.00 USD in Australia.

I'm thinking if a PS3 is gonna worth that much and Blu ray players will be sold for less...that really wouldn't benefit sony.

Quite frankly I don't give a **** about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. All I care about is playing my games.

Originally posted by Draco69
So far it seems that Blu-Ray is winning the format war. And the gamble to make PS3 a Blu-Ray player in order to push their format has payed off.

Perhaps you didn't bother to read this statement:

"That said, more HD DVD titles have been sold since the format's inception. As of the second week of January, the Nielsen VideoScan figures say for every 100 HD DVD titles sold so far, only 92.40 Blu-ray movies have been bought."

or this one:

"It should be noted that during those first two weeks of January the only high-def titles released were two Blu-ray movies: The Covenant (Jan. 2) and Crank (Jan. 9)."

So in the two weeks that we see a spike in Blu-Ray movie sales, the only two HD movies released were both in the Blue-Ray format. Gets you thinking, huh?

Originally posted by grey fox
Did your normal (Non plasma) Tv pick up static with regular NBC ?

Yes it did have static, and regular tv's only have 1 nbc frequency but an HDtv will have 2 channel 5's one in hd and the other not in hd. You also get 3 PBS channels and with regular air there is only 1.

ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC, CW6, and PBS all have a HD air waves and regular air waves. Nothing better than a free HD channel with no static.




HD-DVD had a little bit of a head start in the race which is why it is still in the lead in total sales. Limited supply and High price is keeping blu-ray down but as prices drops and supply goes up blu-ray will take lead.

There are only 1 mil ps3 sold in the US as that number goes up so will the blu-ray movies.

Also I don't think most people see a want to buy a blu-ray or HD-dvd player because they are expensive and have limited movies on it. However I can see people buying the Xbox360's $200 HD-dvd player, and the PS3 $400 console $200 blu-ray player. For now blu-ray and HD-dvd are limited to just the people who own the xbox and ps3 with the few exceptions of people who paid the high price for HD-dvd and blu-ray players.

I think both format players will have to drop into the 100's for the mass market to start buying the players and the market would expand beyond the scope of PS3 Xbox 360 owners.