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Its FACT there is two timelines. The one from Links childhood in Oot that starts with Majoras Mask... And the one from Link adulthood in Oot that. But the fact is... Ganondorf has died more than two times. In Alttp, he died. In TP he died... In Loz, he died, was revived in AoL, and died again... Was also revived in the two gameboy color oracle games... and died. and he also died in Ww. How do you make this work?

There are definitely more than two. Wind Waker is 100 years after OoT, which is a prequel to the entire series, and Link To The Past is a prequel to Legend Of Zelda.

Spoilers ahead!

Zelda timelining is more an art than a science,. There is a continuity... of a sorts... but it is vague and almost contradictory.

It is not helped by flat-out contradictions made by the game makers. LTTP clearly states it is a prequel to the original LoZ, and the designers said so at the time. Biut since, some designers have made out it was not.

Meanwhile, the 'split timeline' theory long advanced by many fans was given unexpected credence by one of the game makers during Wind Waker's cycle who spoke about Ocarina of Time having two endings and WW being a sequel to one of them. Eeek!

Here are some generally useful guidelines

1. Don't get too worried about Ganondorf dying and coming back; he's a weird supernatural creatue and drama states that these things come back after seemingly being 'killed'

2. Hyrule's geography is almost entirely random and it is not worth trying to build anything out of that- though there are some interesting parallels between Twilight Princess and ALTTP in that area

3. We can make some assumptions/deductions- some stronger than others biut none totally unreasonable- that help us put this into context

Here are those assumptions/deductions:

A. The Minish Cap, has elements that suggest they are before the existence of the Master Sword, the Triforce and the concept of the recurring Link hero. The last of those three- the green-capped Link who will be echoed throughout the Ages- may come into being at the end of MC. So it is not objectionable to say that this is some kind of pre-prequel, looking at some origins (the direct relation between the Golden Force and the Triforce of other games is unclear; the writer spoke of the Golden Force being an ancient, and maybe related, legend but a separate thing. Judging by appearance, many fans took it for granted that the Golden Force is the basis of one third of the Triforce)

The Four Swords games, though written earlier, clearly come after TMC (beginning as it does with the bad guy released from the imprisonment that occurs at the end of TMC) but presumably MUCH later as Ganon turns up there as well.


B. Ocarina of Time is the easiest to out into continuity, both for story elements and because no game designers have ever contradicted or confused the issue. The Master Sword already exists (possibly foretold by Minish Cap), inside the Temple of Time, likewise the Triforce is solidly in place. Link is already green-capped but the concept of the recurring Link has not yet become well known, though it may already be happening- Link is the mysterious Human boy in a village of faries, after all, already out of place. Ganon(dorf) is the Thief-King of the Gerudos, and during the course of the game becomes empowered by the Triifoce, becomes the bg demony thing we tend to generally associate him with being, and gets sealed off in the Sacred Realm at the end by the Sages (re-named to Sages rather than 'wise men' because... well, some are female) jist as the rest of continuity has established.

Majora's Mask directly follows on from OOT- easy. However, Link seems to have lost his triforce; Wind Waker makes an obscure comment suggesting it got shattered at this time.


C. Wind Waker happens centuries (or 'a century'? This issue has become complicated by designers) after the Adult ending of OoT, (or just THE ennding if you think there is just one) where the land was battered and broken and ravaged, but Ganon was locked away in the Sacred Realm. Hyrule has been flooded to prevent Ganon escaping as his seal weakens, the existence of Link (but not a recurring Link) is well known; at the end, the whole lot is sealed up again.

The Phantom Hourglass will sequel this but likely won't mess around with continuity elements, though we will see


D. Twilight Princess is an arse to quantify. It's post Ocarina, certainly. The geography, as I say, has certain resemblances with ALTTP. The Master Sword is in the old grounds of the Temple of Time, now broken down and abandoned (but still connected by Time to its old self), and the area around the Master Sword is becoming analagous to the Grove in which you find it in in ALTTP. The original Link is well known of, new Link has a Triforce, it all fits between those two stools. So that bit's easy.

The tricky bit is, although the evil Ganondorf is well known of, there is no reference to him being banished to the Sacred Realm (though the Sacred Realm is referred to heavily relating to the Twili, and the creation of the Twilight Realm), the Sages exist but seemed surprised he was in possesion of a Triforce, it;'s hard o make out if it is pre-flood or pos-lfood or in the same continuity as the flood... who the Twili were is a mystery (could they have been the Gerudo? Soe of Midna's speeches could be interpreted to make out that Ganon was once their King, but nothing definite- regardless, the Gerudo have stopped existing)... the Zora and Gorons are still there, but the Kokiri seem to have buggered off... all a mystery, that one. Some speculate this comes after the child ending of OoT... but it's hard to be sure of anything


E. A Link to the Past DEFINITELY comes after all of those. Ganon has turned the Sacred Realm into a land of evil, and the descendants of the Sages are those he kidnaps as the seal weakens and he threatens to escape, before new Link stops him, possibly the final time the Master Sword is used (as I say, taken from a grove not unlike the area in TP was becoming). How Hyrule became unflooded, or if it became refounded, and how Ganon weaklened the seal when flooded... none of this is known (or was even relevant when the game was made).

Link's Awakening comes after this directly, and I THINK the Oracle games do as well, but I've never played them and have no real clue.


F. Plenty to be unsure about, so now the final puzzle is the original two games. Link's Adventure, of course, comes after Legend of Zelda. But is LoZ before or after ALTTP, and if before, where before? Hyrule is a wasteland, though that might be artistic licrense considering how old the game is. Only one third of the Triforce is known of, and is shattered; the second third is focussed on in Adventure of Link. Much logic say ALTTP preceeds these games- not least the back of the LTTP box- but then you wonder when the triforce shattered, certainly when Wind Waker suggests it happened back at the time of Majora's Mask... but it's back by Twilight Princess...

...

Ah, it's a mess. make of it what you will.

The split timeline theory says that one Hyrule dates from the one Ganon destroyed in OoT, that Link was an adult in, and got sent home from at the end (becoming a legend). The other is the timeline he returned to, where (presumably) Ganon never came to full power and Link lived out his normal life.

Like it or lump it, it is gaining credence. But SO little is certain about any of this, and they are clearly winging it at Nintendo, just come up with whatever you like

As far as TP's connections with OoT, I'd like to just add my ideas about it. Keep in mind that it's spoilerrific speculation, supported by various elements in OoT and TP. As far as I'm concerned, it's the simplest, most logical way to set the timeline, though as I'm not Miyamoto it's simply my thoughts.

Reminder: This post contains SPOILERS.

TP comes after the Child ending of OoT, which, looking at the ending, puts Link back at the point where he first meets Princess Zelda. In other words, before he gathered the Sacred Stones, played the Ocarina, and pulled the Master Sword to open the gate to the Sacred Realm. I believe this mainly because if it were any other way, then the game would be a pointless loop because nothing would have changed: Ganondorf would still have entered the Sacred Realm and made his wish, making all Link's efforts for naught and leaving Zelda looking rather foolish.

Now, it would be sensible that Link, after returning, tells Zelda what happened. Thanks to her own dreams and the influence of the Triforce of Wisdom, she'd have no choice but to believe him. Zelda and Link then convince the King that Ganondorf is up to no good, and one way or another Ganondorf is captured before his plans come to fruition.

At some point after, Ganondorf is sentenced to death, and that sentence is carried out by the Sages - the "original" group of Sages, all of whom Ganondorf (after Link pulls the Master Sword) killed except for Rauru; this is pretty much fact as it's the entire reason Link had to awaken a new group of Sages. Anyway, these original Sages sentence Ganondorf to death, and carry the sentence out with an enchanted sword. Ganondorf dies... and then almost immediately comes back to life, fueled by a "gift from the Goddesses" - the Triforce of Power.

Hang on - when did he get that? If Link stopped Ganondorf before he even got started, the Triforce should still be safe in the Sacred Realm, right?

Not exactly. Looking at the child ending of OoT again, both Link and Zelda's Triforce marks are glowing - something Ganondorf himself said happens when two holders of a part of the Triforce are near each other. Link came back from the future still bearing the Triforce of Courage. And the evidence from the game's ending supports the possibility that the Triforce split, and the other two pieces passed to the people that most represented the respective qualities: Wisdom and Power.

Since Link would have done this unknowingly, no one, possibly not even Ganondorf, would have known that the Triforce of Power was hidden inside the King of the Gerudo. Suddenly, it does make sense that the Sages didn't know Ganondorf was gifted with the power of the gods. How could they?

Furthermore, Ganondorf, after he returns in TP, acknowledges neither TP Link's garb nor his sword, beyond a snide comment. One would think that, if TP involved the same Ganondorf that the Hero of Time had sealed with the Master Sword, he would likely notice the same clothing, and definitely notice the same damned sword that had destroyed him years ago. Given this evidence, it would seem that this Ganondorf had not met Link at all, and had never seen the Master Sword.

So that's my two bits, really. Again, almost entirely speculation, but you have to admit it's more sensible than many theories.

i think GK already cleared this up in the Twilight princess thread..

It's a popular theory.

But it still involves just as many assumptions as many other theories, and nor is a complete answer to questions like about what happened to Link's Trifoce in the Majora's mask continuity.

As I say, it's more an art than a science. Weave your own story out of it.

What are the "child" and "Adult" OoT endings?
Are they separate endings?

Not in the sense I suspct you mean.

But OoT ends in two different places- the original Hyrule, where Link returns to as a child, and the seven-years later Hyrule, which Ganon had wrecked but was exiled to the Sacred Realm in.

The theory is that both continuities continue onwards from that point.

So two Links exist after the ending?

No, because Adult Link went home. There is no Link in that continuity, except the Legend of the Hero of Time.

Got it,thanks for the help.I was lost for a sec there.
What about the Master sword?
Is there only one that can be reached from both Continuities by future Links?

No, in both cases it is in the Temple of Time.

My theori:
Minish Cap comes first. It just fits well to.
The Ocarina of Time.
Then, it splits from childhood and adult.
WindWaker and Alttp is fact to come after the adult part.
Majoras Mask is fact to come after the childhood part.
Ganondorf should with ease escape a sealing, BUT NOT DEATH.

Deaths:

1: He was killed in the original Legend of Zelda, revived in AoL, but killed again.
2: He was killed in Alttp.
3: He was revived in Oracle of Seasons/age and killed.
4: He died in Wind Waker and cant by ane means be revived form that death If the coming Phantom Hourglass dont states otherwise?
5: He dies in Twilight Princess

Thats the bricks i works with.

But my theori normally changes

I thought you didn't even fight Ganon in the Oracle Saga? Isn't it Twinrova (a continued game), and that dragon?

By linking and playing both Ages and Seasons, Link discovers that the Twinrova's plans were to cause despair in both Holodrum and Labrynna as part of a ritual for reviving Ganon. The next step required Princess Zelda as a sacrifice, but Link saved her, causing the ritual to bring back Ganon as a mindless beast instead of his former self. Link then defeats this form and Ganon remains dead.

And Lord Rock, where does it absolutely state that Ganondorf died at the end of Wind Waker? Turning to stone certainly seems more like being sealed than like being killed. The Master Sword's express purpose is to seal Ganon's power, after all.

Speaking of the Master Sword, why is it that in different Zelda games it has two different variations entirely? Let me elaborate: In Wind Waker you have to restore power to it, similar to LTTP, while in OoT it has a "technical" superior weapon, the Biggron's Sword. Wouldn't this bring view two possible Master Swords? The Four Sword was unique as well, Four Swords, and Four Swords Adventures.

Maybe they're just games, maybe the order doesn't matter, maybe they are just really good fun.

Oh, sure, let's not be fun, Spooony.

Did you have to restore power to the Master Sword in ALttP? I thought I remembered that you just had the trouble of finding it, but after that it was perfectly fine. Really, restoring power to the Master Sword is the odd one out. It's fully powered in ALttP, the Oracle games, OoT (barring the fact that the Biggoron Sword is stronger), and TP.

The Four Sword/Picori Blade is a different sword, but it seems to serve the same sort of purpose. I don't remember Four Swords Adventures, did it act as a seal in that one? It was a seal in FS and MC.

Though technically, there'd have to be two Master Swords thanks to the two timelines, I suppose.

Biggoron's sword is hardly reducing the significance of the Master Sword. The MS is a good sword, for sure, but its schtick is that it repels evil, not that it is the most powerful blade that ever existed.

You upgraded it rather than recharged it in ALTTP. Which goes to show that it was not necessarily Death Star dangerous to start with.

Some people like the idea that the Oracle games tell of the same event happening but in the two different time lines. But the fact that they combine into one single plot buggers that up, I feel.

Ush, you can battle Ganondorf, and himself as Ganon, but when he falls the Master Sword must be thrust into his mouth for the battle to end. Otherwise it just keeps going and going and Zelda occationally says to use the Master Sword.

Well, yes, because the Master Sword is the one that destroys evil.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
By linking and playing both Ages and Seasons, Link discovers that the Twinrova's plans were to cause despair in both Holodrum and Labrynna as part of a ritual for reviving Ganon. The next step required Princess Zelda as a sacrifice, but Link saved her, causing the ritual to bring back Ganon as a mindless beast instead of his former self. Link then defeats this form and Ganon remains dead.

And Lord Rock, where does it absolutely state that Ganondorf died at the end of Wind Waker? Turning to stone certainly seems more like being sealed than like being killed. The Master Sword's express purpose is to seal Ganon's power, after all.

Its to REPEL Ganon. And he said The Wind Blows as a reference to the wind of death that blowed in Gerudo Valley he mentioned before the fight... And kills. And getting a sword i the head, turning to stone, drowned in the sea, leaved in a Castle...
He is dead

Death is merely a temporary problem for him.

I reckon if he is ever to PERMANENTLY go down, the Triforce of Power is going to have to go boom.

Which actually sounds like a good ending for the actual final Zelda game to me Ush. IF they made that happen, Ganondorf is actually killed, and the Triforce itself is destroyed thus making Link a normal human.

Well, Link's one is Courage. But it could all go boom at once of course.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Death is merely a temporary problem for him.

I reckon if he is ever to PERMANENTLY go down, the Triforce of Power is going to have to go boom.
He'll never go down... Nintendo make too much money from him.

Death IS a big problem. If i plot to revvie him would accure, like in the Oracle games, a new Link would rise to stop the reviving. If he was revived, we would know But he can break seals on his on after some time

Or other Heroes... like the Hero of Winds or the Hero of Realms (as TP Link has come to be called by the fandom).

I would like another game with Majora as the main villain, though. And Vaati has his own series now, as well as a strangely large fanbase.

EDIT: Well, this is is interesting. Recently Nintendo Dream interviewed Eiji Aonuma. Here's a tidbit:



Of course, since the interview was in Japanese, people frantically tried to get a second opinion on the translation. Here's another, more complete version:



I love it when I'm right. Then again, what I thought was one of the most sensible explanations.

Now if only he wouldn't keep contradicting himself every time he makes a new interview we'd be sorted...

And this is why I've never really tried to work out the Zelda timeline. Just way too many contradictions and stuff.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Now if only he wouldn't keep contradicting himself every time he makes a new interview we'd be sorted...

Ain't that the truth... I'm sure he'll change his mind again when the next Zelda comes out.

Why do they even try to put everything into a timeline? Just say almost all games are in their own reality.

Originally posted by Morridini
Why do they even try to put everything into a timeline? Just say almost all games are in their own reality.

Two reasons

A. Because they say there is one. So working it out is like why mountaineers climb mountains. The concept for that holds even if they are in fact lying

b. Because Zelda is not FF. Despite the wide disparity of the games, they DO continuously point towards some kind of logic in continuity.

That being the case, it's an interesting puzzle to try and figure out. For some, at least.

Originally posted by Lana
And this is why I've never really tried to work out the Zelda timeline. Just way too many contradictions and stuff.

It's fun to pick at with each new entry though, the Game Boy trilogy is easy to place, the other earlier entries to gaming are the issue with placement, such as LTTP, and LoZ, because they didn't provide a huge amount of inside depth about 'former Heroes Of Time' and the such.

I still find the most heinous thing is the apparent contunuity reversal of ALTTP's -place in the timeline. That really messed things.

Well, the title in itself is quite a pun, and people freaking out over Link's Uncle's words before he passed out.

I just noticed someone said WW was in the adult timeline. Although I too believe this, there is a problem...

With the Tingle turner, you can read a text at one place, which describes Tingle in MM, helping the Hero of Time by drawing maps. Now if this was in the adult timeline, Termina should have been destroyed by this time, and they would never have met.....

im reviving this thread cause no one has answered or stated and agreed upon what the timeline that makes the most sense is.

now here are some tidbits i found in the series and you tell me if i'm wrong or what u think.

first off at the end of WW the king uses the triforce and gets his wish so how would the triforce go back to ganon after that? shouldn't it go back to the sacred realm or really shouldn't the king then get the whole triforce if his heart was pure.

second in LoZ you end up using the magic sword not the master sword, i believe the last time you see the master sword is ALTTP because you upgrade it makeing it gold tempered and it isn't golden in any other games so wouldn't make sense that's the last time you see it in the series?

Try reading the thread. You just might find the answers.

i did and no they werent answered

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I still find the most heinous thing is the apparent contunuity reversal of ALTTP's -place in the timeline. That really messed things.

I still believe a Link to the Past is the last game timeline wise. Considering in the game Ganon had a fully assembled Triforce. In OoT the Triforce was broken into three parts and wasn't reformed until WW. We know that in the NES Zelda the Triforce is in three parts again but it isn't clear if they were always in three parts or not.

And a Link to the Past also has: And the Master Sword was laid to rest forever.

Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, is the first game chronologically, that's one thing that is fact.

esb-1138 and violent2dope can either of you verify what order you personally think the games go in?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
I still believe a Link to the Past is the last game timeline wise. Considering in the game Ganon had a fully assembled Triforce. In OoT the Triforce was broken into three parts and wasn't reformed until WW. We know that in the NES Zelda the Triforce is in three parts again but it isn't clear if they were always in three parts or not.

And a Link to the Past also has: And the Master Sword was laid to rest forever.

So? The Master Sword is not used in the original Zelda games that ALTTP was considered the prequel to so that is not an issue at all.

And that just means ganon re-assembled it at some point before ALTTP. That's called plot. There are plenty of gaps but that is not a continuity mis-step.

And gaps, of course, simply mean opportunities for new games to fill them.

The thing that seems to screw up the continuity the most is the time split within OoT, however (at least to me) it appears that it diverged into this....

Adult Time line - WW (Note how Ganondorf seems so weary about the constant fighting ect and 'Heores of time')

Child Time line - TP (As already noted Ganondorf seemed not to pissed at meeting Link)

i don't think stuff like ganon not mentioning the master sword and not being pissed to meet link is relevant. i mean at the end of Oot he says he's going to take it out link and zeldas descendants so y would he be mad at meeting the new link if thats what he's trying to do so he can take his revenge.