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No jobbing. Bloodlust on.

Which evil duo wins?

Team 2.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Team 2. Team one.

I don't know how they would get past Mags shield.

Though, Mags would be hampered by the fact that he wouldn't be able to do either of them any internal damage.

Doom and Magneto.
Magneto's got Apoc, should also be able to help Doom with Sinister.
at the very least a bfr victory.

No BFR allowed.

Magneto can do nothing to either. and doom is severly outclassed powerwise.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Magneto can do nothing to either. and doom is severly outclassed powerwise. Nipple.

Doom, and Kang invade Magus's place.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2496/infintywars0516wi7.th.jpg

Warlock rips his gun out, and then they start to fight.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6418/infintywars0517fq0.th.jpg

Warlock kicks him.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9985/infintywars0518kv9.th.jpg

Doom takes down Warlock.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7264/infintywars0519xu6.th.jpg

Then he goes and takes out Kang.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1562/infintywars0520uw2.th.jpg

Hits Magus.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/512/infintywars0521do2.th.jpg

He then pins Magus into submission.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3268/infintywars0522lc0.th.jpg

Warlock gets up and tries to blitz Doom.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3213/infintywars0524wf5.th.jpg

Doom turns around and takes him out with a blast (shows how good his reflexes are). He also wants the IG.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8936/infintywars0525ea9.th.jpg

Magus is about to give him it...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/336/infintywars0526bc8.th.jpg

Doom wins...

Originally posted by bigbran
Nipple.

Doom, and Kang invade Magus's place.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2496/infintywars0516wi7.th.jpg

Warlock rips his gun out, and then they start to fight.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6418/infintywars0517fq0.th.jpg

Warlock kicks him.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9985/infintywars0518kv9.th.jpg

Doom takes down Warlock.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7264/infintywars0519xu6.th.jpg

Then he goes and takes out Kang.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1562/infintywars0520uw2.th.jpg

Hits Magus.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/512/infintywars0521do2.th.jpg

He then pins Magus into submission.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3268/infintywars0522lc0.th.jpg

Warlock gets up and tries to blitz Doom.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3213/infintywars0524wf5.th.jpg

Doom turns around and takes him out with a blast (shows how good his reflexes are). He also wants the IG.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8936/infintywars0525ea9.th.jpg

Magus is about to give him it...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/336/infintywars0526bc8.th.jpg

They had severe prep and power up. ANd he was also aided by kang.

Dr. Doom and Magneto.

Dr. Doom provides the brain, and Mags provide the muscle.

Although both are not really lacking from either department.

Originally posted by id369
Dr. Doom and Magneto.

Dr. Doom provides the brain, and Mags provide the muscle.

Although both are not really lacking from either department.

Yes and Apoc and Mister Sinister and just weak as kittens and dumb as doornobs. Apoc and Sinister are every bit as powerful and smart as mags and Doom. And they both have superior dmg resistance and molecular control

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They had severe prep and power up. ANd he was also aided by kang. The only prep they had, was them trying to stop Magus (which they did by planting a bomb on his Cosmic Cubes...).
The only powerup they had, was the guns that they had strapped to their backs, which as you can see, they were only used like once.

Plus, Kang also got his ass kicked, while Doom basically took down everyone.

Originally posted by bigbran
The only prep they had, was them trying to stop Magus (which they did by planting a bomb on his Cosmic Cubes...).
The only powerup they had, was the guns that they had strapped to their backs, which as you can see, they were only used like once.

Plus, Kang also got his ass kicked, while Doom basically took down everyone.

And exactly what would doom do to apoc? Or mr sinister? What could he possibly do? There is no prep here.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And exactly what would doom do to apoc? Or mr sinister? What could he possibly do? There is no prep here. Ya, and in the scans, he took out Warlock, Magus, and Kang.

He could blow up Sinister, and could most likely take out Apoc on his own.
Add in Magneto...

Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, and in the scans, he took out Warlock, Magus, and Kang.

He could blow up Sinister, and could most likely take out Apoc on his own.
Add in Magneto...

Blow up sinister? Sure as mr sinister, who heals from pretty much any wound, just stands there with his Tp, energy blast, and all his other powers and lets a human in a tin suit own him. And yeah, Dr. Doom takes out apoc, who fought the HE to a stand still. Yeah, I just bet doom is that good. He can't even take out the FF

What's stopping Apoc from generating a counter magnetic pulse or absorbing Mag's shield?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Blow up sinister? Sure as mr sinister, who heals from pretty much any wound, just stands there with his Tp, energy blast, and all his other powers and lets a human in a tin suit own him. And yeah, Dr. Doom takes out apoc, who fought the HE to a stand still. Yeah, I just bet doom is that good. He can't even take out the FF It wouldn't be too hard to blow up Sinister with one shot...

You mean, the Apocalypse who fought HE, OK, but I didn't see any Classic shit in this thread... so... the Apocalypse who stalemated Cable in h2h for a while?

Also, Hulk has smashed HE's armour, but that isn't brought up in threads...

Also, the FF are just that good, if you haven't noticed in comics...
They may be weak-ish seperate, but they are a force together.
What about the X-Men... hmmm?

Plus, you just keep on ignoring him taking out Warlock, Magus, and Kang...

Also, what about both Doom, and Mag's forcefield? Niether of the opposition is breaking one of their shields.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
What's stopping Apoc from generating a counter magnetic pulse or absorbing Mag's shield? Impending Doom.

Originally posted by bigbran
It wouldn't be too hard to blow up Sinister with one shot...

You mean, the Apocalypse who fought HE, OK, but I didn't see any Classic shit in this thread... so... the Apocalypse who stalemated Cable in h2h for a while?

Also, Hulk has smashed HE's armour, but that isn't brought up in threads...

Also, the FF are just that good, if you haven't noticed in comics...
They may be weak-ish seperate, but they are a force together.
What about the X-Men... hmmm?

Plus, you just keep on ignoring him taking out Warlock, Magus, and Kang...

Also, what about both Doom, and Mag's forcefield? Niether of the opposition is breaking one of their shields.

Impending Doom.

Doom is NEVER EVER taking Mr. Sinister nor Apoc for any majority without some serious prep. I just don't see it.

Wait. If they're using Current Apoc, there's no point. I won't argue for him in this thread.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Doom is NEVER EVER taking Mr. Sinister nor Apoc for any majority without some serious prep. I just don't see it.
you don't see it?

Ignorance...

Anyway...

Doom breaks into Strange's house (said to be impossible). He also takes out a weakened Surfer.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3038/infinitygauntlet219pc0.th.jpg

He is also about to take out Strange before Warlock came in.
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3316/infinitygauntlet220xp4.th.jpg

Is... Apoc as powerful as Thanos with the Power Gem?
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4779/theinfinitygauntlet0417yw9.th.jpg

Or, do either Apoc or Sinister get Thanos's respect?
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8987/mute0118lp8.th.jpg

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wait. If they're using Current Apoc, there's no point. I won't argue for him in this thread. Well, there was no saying who it was, but whatever, use Classic...

Originally posted by bigbran

you don't see it?

Ignorance...

Anyway...

Doom breaks into Strange's house (said to be impossible). He also takes out a weakened Surfer.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3038/infinitygauntlet219pc0.th.jpg

He is also about to take out Strange before Warlock came in.
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3316/infinitygauntlet220xp4.th.jpg

Is... Apoc as powerful as Thanos with the Power Gem?
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4779/theinfinitygauntlet0417yw9.th.jpg

Or, do either Apoc or Sinister get Thanos's respect?
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8987/mute0118lp8.th.jpg

Well, there was no saying who it was, but whatever, use Classic...

That is some serious PIS. Plus I don't know the circumstances behind those scans. I don't trust scans without knowing the whole story or having some knowlege of the events fresh in my mind.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is some serious PIS. Plus I don't know the circumstances behind those scans. I don't trust scans without knowing the whole story or having some knowlege of the events fresh in my mind. Why is it pis, oh, because Doom is more powerful than you thought?

Also, that is basically the whole story behind the scans.

Originally posted by bigbran
Why is it pis, oh, because Doom is more powerful than you thought?

Also, that is basically the whole story behind the scans.
NO doom is just where I always thought he was. He still doesn't beat either of these two in my opinion. He doesn't have the power to dish out enough dmg to either. ANd considering both of them are remarkably faster than doom, I dont' see him laying a hand on either.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO doom is just where I always thought he was. He still doesn't beat either of these two in my opinion. He doesn't have the power to dish out enough dmg to either. ANd considering both of them are remarkably faster than doom, I dont' see him laying a hand on either. Oh, so laying out Surfer, Warlock, Magus, Kang, isn't enough power to damage Apoc?

Also... faster? Where in the hell did you get this shit? Doom can hit them just fine.
Especially Sinister...

Plus, Mags is there. Plus, both have near industructable shields (especially compared to these two).
Doom also has spells, and is the second best magic user on the planet.

Originally posted by bigbran
Oh, so laying out Surfer, Warlock, Magus, Kang, isn't enough power to damage Apoc?

Also... faster? Where in the hell did you get this shit? Doom can hit them just fine.
Especially Sinister...

Plus, Mags is there. Plus, both have near industructable shields (especially compared to these two).
Doom also has spells, and is the second best magic user on the planet. wnd best magic user on the planet? WTF. Yet he can't beat the FF and he hasn't managed to take over the world yet. OMG. That shit with him laying out surfer is PIS. Warlock PIS. magus. PIS. maybe kang. I'm sticking with my opinion. Doom cannot defeat Sinister or Apoc without prep. You can argue till your blue in the face. I guess doom will be the next KMC flash/superman/iceman/thanos/thor/odin over rated blah blah blah.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yes and Apoc and Mister Sinister and just weak as kittens and dumb as doornobs. Apoc and Sinister are every bit as powerful and smart as mags and Doom. And they both have superior dmg resistance and molecular control
I am one of the few (or many) that believe Magneto>Apocalypse.
Sinister is a non factor to Magneto.
Dr. Doom vs. Mr. Sinister. Would be interesting, but Sinseter would have a hard time overcoming Dooms shields. Sinister TP is a non factor seeing how his suit protects him from such attacks. And Dr. Doom holds more versatility thanks to his magic, and the suits tech. So I also give Doom the majority over Sinister.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And exactly what would doom do to apoc? Or mr sinister? What could he possibly do? There is no prep here.
Anti Mutant button.

Doom and Magneto have superior Shields. (Insane damage soak). That alone makes things hard on the opposing team.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
wnd best magic user on the planet? WTF. Yet he can't beat the FF and he hasn't managed to take over the world yet. OMG. That shit with him laying out surfer is PIS. Warlock PIS. magus. PIS. maybe kang. I'm sticking with my opinion. Doom cannot defeat Sinister or Apoc without prep. You can argue till your blue in the face. I guess doom will be the next KMC flash/superman/iceman/thanos/thor/odin over rated blah blah blah. Doom has probably beat the FF more times than Apoc beat the X-Men...

Also, I haven't seen Apoc do anything on Doom's level of plans...
What about Doom having Beyonder's powers, and Galactus's powers?
Doom also controls his own country.

You really have nothing, and yet, any feat is pis?

Yes, because we all know that a character fully capable of beating Apoc is overated...

Wow...

sinister's track record is excellent. He gave himself powers, and managed to live far beyond that of a normal human's life span. He then managed to create one of the most powerful beings to ever walk the plaent. I think he did what he set out to do. I also remember miss pryor being uber too. didn't he have somethign to do with that?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
sinister's track record is excellent. He gave himself powers, and managed to live far beyond that of a normal human's life span. He then managed to create one of the most powerful beings to ever walk the plaent. I think he did what he set out to do. I also remember miss pryor being uber too. didn't he have somethign to do with that? Create beings that defy him?

Originally posted by bigbran
Create beings that defy him?

I thought his goal was to make beings who could kill apoc. Isn't that what he set out to do?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I thought his goal was to make beings who could kill apoc. Isn't that what he set out to do? Yes, and most have went against him (well, Nate anyway).

Trust me when I say this nvr. Doom himself takes this fight in pretty much the same fashion he did in those scans. He beats the crap outta the other team, then turns on his own teammate. Or he turns on his teammate and beats the crap outta the other team. Doom stands alone in victory.

You need to tweak your perception of Doom. FF beats him, yes. Because they are the FF. Personally, it's not such a shame to be beaten by Reed (Galactus-pwning) Richards and company. Yes, you may be rooting for underrated characters and that's cool and all, but Doom is not overrated. If you wanted me to list what he could bring to a fight if he were suddenly transported and taken out of his element and has no prep, it'd take me a quite a while.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Trust me when I say this nvr. Doom himself takes this fight in pretty much the same fashion he did in those scans. He beats the crap outta the other team, then turns on his own teammate. Or he turns on his teammate and beats the crap outta the other team. Doom stands alone in victory.

You need to tweak your perception of Doom. FF beats him, yes. Because they are the FF. Personally, it's not such a shame to be beaten by Reed (Galactus-pwning) Richards and company. Yes, you may be rooting for underrated characters and that's cool and all, but Doom is not overrated. If you wanted me to list what he could bring to a fight if he were suddenly transported and taken out of his element and has no prep, it'd take me a quite a while.

I"m not buying it. Most any Top tier heroe or villian has been shown owning uber guys and teams before. I believe that doom without prep cannot defeat either of these guys. that is my opinion. I just don't see it. One would have to be insanely powerful to actually be able to seriously hurt apoc. Like on the lvl of nate. that is why sinister made him so powerful becuz he needed to be.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not buying it. Most any Top tier heroe or villian has been shown owning uber guys and teams before. I believe that doom without prep cannot defeat either of these guys. that is my opinion. I just don't see it. One would have to be insanely powerful to actually be able to seriously hurt apoc. Like on the lvl of nate. that is why sinister made him so powerful becuz he needed to be. How about Doom traps him in the Crimson Bands of Cy?

Also, Doom was shown pawning just about every magic user that competed in a game.
Although Strange defeated twice as much, that is still VERY impressive.

So... Crimson Bands for the win.

This was back in the day(meaning he's better now).

Also, Apoc is no Strange, neither is Sinister, and both aren't magic users, so... they are f*cked.
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/3001/drsstrangeanddoom24co9.th.jpg

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, and most have went against him (well, Nate anyway).
He didn't want to control them, he just wanted someone capable of killing Apoc.

Sinister has also built his own living bases, stopped Gambit from becoming New Sun, wrecked people like Madelyn Pryor and Malice.

Can Mags' shields stop TK?

This thread is spite. Doom is too uber.

Originally posted by bigbran

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/3001/drsstrangeanddoom24co9.th.jpg

So...

Doom TRIES to harm a Strange that doesn't even want to fight, absolutley fails, and his own spell is easily cast back at him?

Meh.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not buying it. Most any Top tier heroe or villian has been shown owning uber guys and teams before. I believe that doom without prep cannot defeat either of these guys. that is my opinion. I just don't see it. One would have to be insanely powerful to actually be able to seriously hurt apoc. Like on the lvl of nate. that is why sinister made him so powerful becuz he needed to be. You focus too much on prep. He doesn't do 'Dark Knight Returns' style preparation where he has to prepare a battlefield, have a PIS device, etc. He's pretty much prepared for any situation and can cobble stuff up on the fly when needed. A short list as an example:

1) Energy - As you know, Doom was transported against his will and by surprise in 'Secret Wars.' After Galactus and he were blasted by Beyonder's power, he eventually regains his composure and uses a point singularity device in his boot to restore his power completely. So expect him to have something like that with him at all times.

2) Magicks - Doom's magicks are not to be underestimated. As bigbran stated, he pretty much stole spells and incantations during the contest for the Sorcerer Supreme. He was also tirelessly taught by Dr. Strange for days in their preparation for battle against Mephisto. Hence, why you should now understand how he could break into Strange's house and restrain him in 'Infinity Gauntlet.'

3) Equipment - He almost ALWAYS carries a power absorption module. Hell, his Doombots carry these even! A Doombot absorbed the Power Cosmic from Surfer! He also has been seen with one built into his armor. Most stories, those external power modules are mentioned with reference to taking power for future use and study. It would be easy to infer that his armor's built-in absorption unit is for diverting power for his personal use.

4) Defensive Capabilities - His actual armor has taken point blank shots from Thing without the slightest indication of damage. Check the Prelude to Civil War FF issues. His armor's forcefields have protected him from Thanos w/IG, preretcon Beyonder himself, among other things. His armor and his forcefields are not to be scoffed at.

5) Intellect - His genius is pretty much second only to Reed. He stole Galactus' power with only a few hours preparation, using technology he had never even seen before in 'Secret Wars.'

6) Tenacity - He has incredible will, perhaps second only to Cap. After being blown apart by Beyonder, and then while being molecularly dissected, he actually manages to move his arm to activate a module in his breastplate to steal Beyonder's power. He has also resisted Purple Man's mind control powers with no assistance.

That short list, you can pretty much count on him having that at all times. If it doesn't convince you, then you need to read up on more Doom. I'll try to come up with a list of recommended stories.
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
So...

Doom TRIES to harm a Strange that doesn't even want to fight, absolutley fails, and his own spell is easily cast back at him?

Meh. There is one way you can escape the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. If you cast them incorrectly and the person who casts them happens to be a master magician, like Dr. Strange. This is from the mouth of Strange himself. Anyway, you need to read the 'Triumph and Torment' story to understand the context of what happened and Doom's magic skills.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
4) Defensive Capabilities - His actual armor has taken point blank shots from Thing without the slightest indication of damage. Check the Prelude to Civil War FF issues. His armor's forcefields have protected him from Thanos w/IG, preretcon Beyonder himself, among other things. His armor and his forcefields are not to be scoffed at. Actually, he didn't have his forcefield up when he got blasted by Thanos. I don't think Beyonder either.

Also, a reason why Apoc won't break his shields.
He gets put about all the way across the planet, and his shields completely block all damage (and are perfectly fine).
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Excalibur 37_p21.th.jpg

Untouchable.

Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, he didn't have his forcefield up when he got blasted by Thanos. I don't think Beyonder either.

Also, a reason why Apoc won't break his shields.
He gets put about all the way across the planet, and his shields completely block all damage (and are perfectly fine).
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Excalibur 37_p21.th.jpg

Untouchable. I don't believe Doom is such a fool to go for the Infinity Gauntlet without having his shields up. And he definitely had his shields up when he tried to race to the Beyonder while following Galactus. I remember the art distinctly. His form was encased in a bubble, a la forcefield. And in my opinion, Apocalpse would give his forcefields a workout. I don't agree with you that he would be nigh untouchable, just far more capably defensive at all times without prep than nvr believes.

EDIT: Captain Britain scan is pretty nice. You should make a Doom respect thread.

Actually, I read that page. It specifically says that only the high tech equipment of his armor allowed him to survive being killed by his grabbing the IG.

Apocalypse could drain off the field, give himself the ability to pass through energy barriers, just hammer it with attacks, TK crush it, etc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't believe Doom is such a fool to go for the Infinity Gauntlet without having his shields up. And he definitely had his shields up when he tried to race to the Beyonder while following Galactus. I remember the art distinctly. His form was encased in a bubble, a la forcefield. And in my opinion, Apocalpse would give his forcefields a workout. I don't agree with you that he would be nigh untouchable, just far more capably defensive at all times without prep than nvr believes.

EDIT: Captain Britain scan is pretty nice. You should make a Doom respect thread. Well... he did think that Thanos was KOed when he went for it.

He was also guided by his ambition at that point too.

Oh, I thought you were talking about when he faced Beyonder.

He probably would be untouchable, since, he could have his shield up, put it down, and attack.

There already is a Doom respect thread...
Thanks though.


Also, Trickster, his armour did allow him to survive, but he always has his amour on... so... what do you think?

Show me Apocalypse draining a field of Doom's capacity.

Show me Apoc pasing through something.

Yes, Apoc can hammer it with attacks, but what good is that going to do?
Even if he breaks through, he is meeting a blast right in the face.

TK crush it... ya... right.

Also, Doom learned to use the Crimson Bands, just by watching Strange.
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7449/drsstrangeanddoom21qs4.th.jpg

That was before he spent time with Strange.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9541/drsstrangeanddoom41ie8.th.jpg

So, now...
Ya, he used the Bands when he was a self-admitted n00b in magic. After that time with Strange, and over the years, Apoc won't break out of the bands.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Actually, I read that page. It specifically says that only the high tech equipment of his armor allowed him to survive being killed by his grabbing the IG.

Apocalypse could drain off the field, give himself the ability to pass through energy barriers, just hammer it with attacks, TK crush it, etc. Considering that I've never seen Doom's forcefield siphoned, I am a bit skeptical that such a thing would happen. Perhaps if you could point me to or show me a scan of Apocalypse draining a forcefield? I might have an easier time with your theory. I also don't remember an intangible foe ever penetrating Doom's barrier. Considering he was able to survive the Beyonder's attack (where he had no preparation), I don't see Apocalypse battering it or tk crushing it either. It's pretty darn powerful. Perhaps you could point me to or show me a scan of Apocalpyse crushing a comparable field with ease?

Sue Storm good enough? He broke out of one of her fields during Onslaught.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sue Storm good enough? He broke out of one of her fields during Onslaught. dur

Apocalypse gets beaten by the xmen

N'uff said

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apocalypse gets beaten by the xmen

N'uff said dur

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apocalypse gets beaten by the xmen

N'uff said 1eye

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apocalypse gets beaten by the xmen

N'uff said

doom gets beaten by Fantastic 4. Point?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apocalypse gets beaten by the xmen

N'uff said

Isn't that what Magneto does?

dur

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sue Storm good enough? He broke out of one of her fields during Onslaught. I think it's important for you to carefully read your scan again. Nowhere in that scan is there a shattering of Sue's shields. There is no backlash apparent, there is no illustration of the shields fading. You should understand why your impression of the events is contradictory. If Apocalypse did shatter her shields... then why didn't he just continue on and kill Franklin? Or for that matter, why didn't Apocalpyse kill her with his handblast? Which, by the way, was once again stopped by another of Sue's forcefields.

The correct interpretation of what happened is that Sue put up a forcefield between Apoc and Franklin. He could not penetrate it and was wondering what was going on. He turns and realizes it's Sue and attacks her, to which Sue defends herself... successfully I might add. It's your own scan. I just happen to own that comic and read it many years ago. Another interpretation is, she restrains his right arm and Apocalypse's advance is halted. He turns when Sue screams and attacks her with his free left arm.

Interestingly enough, you should also post the scan where during the initial meeting between Sue, Cable and Apoc, she restrains them with her forcefields and comments that she doubts either could break them. Apocalypse acknowledges this and does not contest that assertation.

So you tell me which makes more sense... Apoc broke the shields... but didn't go after Franklin... instead going after Sue... and that he broke her shields again, but Sue wasn't hurt? Cmon. You're smarter than that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think it's important for you to carefully read your scan again. Nowhere in that scan is there a shattering of Sue's shields. There is no backlash apparent, there is no illustration of the shields fading. You should understand why your impression of the events is contradictory. If Apocalypse did shatter her shields... then why didn't he just continue on and kill Franklin? Or for that matter, why didn't Apocalpyse kill her with his handblast? Which, by the way, was once again stopped by another of Sue's forcefields.

The correct interpretation of what happened is that Sue put up a forcefield between Apoc and Franklin. He could not penetrate it and was wondering what was going on. He turns and realizes it's Sue and attacks her, to which Sue defends herself... successfully I might add. It's your own scan. I just happen to own that comic and read it many years ago. Another interpretation is, she restrains his right arm and Apocalypse's advance is halted. He turns when Sue screams and attacks her with his free left arm.

Interestingly enough, you should also post the scan where during the initial meeting between Sue, Cable and Apoc, she restrains them with her forcefields and comments that she doubts either could break them. Apocalypse acknowledges this and does not contest that assertation.

So you tell me which makes more sense... Apoc broke the shields... but didn't go after Franklin... instead going after Sue... and that he broke her shields again, but Sue wasn't hurt? Cmon. You're smarter than that.

Ok, hadn't seen that one in awhile. My bad. Alright, but that doesn't mean he can't break Doom's shield. Celestial technology could give him the edge.

Team 1

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Ok, hadn't seen that one in awhile. My bad. Alright, but that doesn't mean he can't break Doom's shield. Celestial technology could give him the edge. You're right Trickster. It doesn't mean he couldn't break through Doom's shield. I am certainly not of the opinion that Doom's forcefield's are impenetrable. I just don't think their very easily overcome. Least not by tk crushing and whatnot. But you've intrigued me. Could you describe some of his personal Celestial tech? I briefly ran through some of the Apoc respect thread and mainly looked at his one-on-one bouts with heroes and villains. I liked his bout with High Evolutionary. That really featured his control over his molecules well. I may have missed scans about his Celestial tech. Wanna enlighten me?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think it's important for you to carefully read your scan again. Nowhere in that scan is there a shattering of Sue's shields. There is no backlash apparent, there is no illustration of the shields fading. You should understand why your impression of the events is contradictory.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers7.png


1. In the second panel you can see that she raises her shields.

2. In the third panel she has a surprised look on her face, and as you can see, her shields are gone when Apoc fires his energy beam.

And where does all those bubbles come from? Someone claimed that all beam attacks produce a little bubble around the shooter's hand.

But then, how come there are no bubbles here when Apoc uses his energy beams?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-17.jpg
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If Apocalypse did shatter her shields... then why didn't he just continue on and kill Franklin? Or for that matter, why didn't Apocalpyse kill her with his handblast?

Because Cable right afterwards surprised attacked Apoc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Interestingly enough, you should also post the scan where during the initial meeting between Sue, Cable and Apoc, she restrains them with her forcefields and comments that she doubts either could break them. Apocalypse acknowledges this and does not contest that assertation.

I have the comic right here in front of me, and nothing says that she restrained both of them.

Cable says that nothing is going to stop him from attacking Apoc. Cable then suddenly realizes that he can move, and Apoc says that something has stopped him. Sue appears in front of them and says it's called an invisible shield and she doubts either of them could crack it. Also Apoc doesn't acknowledges anywhere that he can't break her shields.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers7.png

1. In the second panel you can see that she raises her shields.

2. In the third panel she has a surprised look on her face, and as you can see, her shields are gone when Apoc fires his energy beam.

And where does all those bubbles come from? Someone claimed that all beam attacks produce a little bubble around the shooter's hand.

But then, how come there are no bubbles here when Apoc uses his energy beams?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-17.jpgThank you for putting the scans up. We are both wrong to a certain extent. Please pay attention to the shape of Sue's forcefields as rendered by this particular artist. They are bubbles... correct? We agree that the bubbles in the third panel are from Sue's forcefields, not from Apocalypse's energy blast. If I understand you correctly, you want me to interpret that as Apocalypse breaking some kind of field with his energy blast and Sue was surprised. I initially interpreted it as Sue blocking his energy blast successfully and is pissed off. While her reaction is up to interpretation (honestly, where the hell do you see shock? she looks pissed to me), the former result of what happened is not.

We are both wrong. Sue completely dodges Apocalypse's blast. You can see the trail go past Sue's waist. So Apocalypse did not shatter her shield and Sue did not deflect his energy attack. Another interpretation is that Sue's forcefield bubbles are forcing Apocalypse's aim to be off. This interpretation may be more correct than anything since we see bubbles both in front and behind his extended arm. They're probably surrounding his arm to an extent. Once again, we are both wrong. The energy blast goes past her, so he couldn't have broken it and she couldn't have deflected it.

What still ended up happening was that Sue restrained Cable and restrained Apocalypse both from advancing towards their intended targets respectively. If Apocalypse could break the shields, why didn't he just kill Franklin? What's with the shock and dismay when he learns Sue is there? The answer is obvious. Apocalypse could not hurt Franklin with Sue's forcefields up protecting/restraining Apocalypse. Apocalypse then turns to attack her in the hope her concentration may be disrupted by having to throw up new shields. There is no other reason for him to turn and attack Sue. Cable did not enter the picture until after he turned to attack Sue. So your intuition is still contradictory. "If he did or could break the shields, why didn't he just kill Franklin?" Because he couldn't. "Why is he even arguing and justifying what he is trying to do when he attacks Sue?" Because convincing her could help undo the obstacle he couldn't break physically.
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
I have the comic right here in front of me, and nothing says that she restrained both of them.

Cable says that nothing is going to stop him from attacking Apoc. Cable then suddenly realizes that he can move, and Apoc says that something has stopped him. Sue appears in front of them and says it's called an invisible shield and she doubts either of them could crack it. Also Apoc doesn't acknowledges anywhere that he can't break her shields. What does Apocalypse say right after Sue makes her claim? Post the pages since you have it in front of you. Go ahead. I'll respond afterwards.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sue Storm good enough? He broke out of one of her fields during Onslaught. Is that Classic Apoc?
Does that mean I could post a scan of him losing around that time?

Also, Sue's shields, aren't as strong as Doom's personal shield.

Plus, even if Apoc could break through it like nothing, it isn't like Doom is defenseless if he didn't have his shield.

I think it's less than he couldn't break the shields, and more that he didn't have the time to do it. He was working against the clock and breaking the shields might have alerted Onslaught earlier or cost him the time that he needed to kill Franklin. And it does look like she's shocked abit.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think it's less than he couldn't break the shields, and more that he didn't have the time to do it. He was working against the clock and breaking the shields might have alerted Onslaught earlier or cost him the time that he needed to kill Franklin. And it does look like she's shocked abit. And... Doom's are still more powerful...

Also, has your opinion changed... any?

Does Apoc/Sinister still win?

Originally posted by bigbran
And... Doom's are still more powerful...

Also, has your opinion changed... any?

Does Apoc/Sinister still win? dur

They can win, but they're more likely to lose. I hate to say it, but it's partly Sinister's fault, and partly that if Apoc is taking the time to take out Doom's shields, he's leaving himself open to get blindsided. Sinister isn't powerful enough to beat either of the other team on his own, and if he goes down early, Apoc is in trouble. I'm just not sure he can beat Doom AND Magneto at the same time. But if he manages to get one of them out fast, then Apocalypse and Sinister can win. But it's more likely Sinister is not gonna last as long.

How will Sinister not last as long?

Magneto can do jack to him. If Apoc takes out Doom's shields, Sinister can practically toy with Magneto. Or at least keep him occupied.

But I doubt Sinister can break Mag's shields. I've never seen him demonstrate that kind of power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
honestly, where the hell do you see shock? she looks pissed to me, the former result of what happened is not..

In the second panel, she looks pissed, in the third, she's more "Whoa what the".

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What does Apocalypse say right after Sue makes her claim? Post the pages since you have it in front of you. Go ahead. I'll respond afterwards.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-07.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-08.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Cable20035-09.jpg

Originally posted by Badabing
dur

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apocalypse is not interested in world domination, if anything, he's kind of the mutant Malcolm X at the moment. Before HoM, he was pleased with getting everyone to gang up and stop him, aka survival of the fittest. Now, with the mutant population at it's lowest ebb, he's trying to save mutant kind, but in his own way.

I'm not touching the mags vs. Apoc arguement right now.

AoA is an alternate universe. And no sane person counts anything in HoM as canon or valid. Considering the whole thing was the Scarlet *****'s delusions and charicatures.

Some of Magneto's feats are one time occurances and rather dubious. 2nd, Apocalypse is immortal and has unlimited stamina and incredible regeneration. If Magneto exhausts himself or gets injured, his powers weaken.

Apocalypse is obsessed with his theory of survival of the fittest. And takes a step further to ensure that only the strong survive under his rule.

But!!! Going through power augmentation only proves that he himself is not fit to lead.

And it is well known that Apocalypse is not a true immortal. The need to swap bodies emphases his own mortality. The need to enter a chamber of rejuvenation emphasizes that there is a finite use of his powers, And there is a finite amount his body can withhold before exhaustion.

2nd Team takes this.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apocalypse is not interested in world domination, if anything, he's kind of the mutant Malcolm X at the moment. Before HoM, he was pleased with getting everyone to gang up and stop him, aka survival of the fittest. Now, with the mutant population at it's lowest ebb, he's trying to save mutant kind, but in his own way.
So, wouldn't you be using HoM in this aspect?
Which, as you clearly said right here:

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
AoA is an alternate universe. And no sane person counts anything in HoM as canon or valid.
Intriguing...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Some of Magneto's feats are one time occurances and rather dubious. 2nd, Apocalypse is immortal and has unlimited stamina and incredible regeneration. If Magneto exhausts himself or gets injured, his powers weaken. Funny... because MOST of Apocalypse's feats are one-time occurances!

Mr. Sinister is not an immortal or invulnerable to attacks. Eventually he reaches his limits.

And its not like AoA Mr. Sinister, had low showing especially in ability to wield his atomic structure.
In fact he showed consistent showing to its 616 counterpart.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5720/xman003large22hj4.th.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3927/xman003large23sp7.th.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9962/xman004large05zx3.th.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5043/xman004large06oe2.th.jpg


Yet we do know that psy enhanced blows not only increase physical strength.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9787/xman004large12vj4.th.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8108/xman004large13kp9.th.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9315/xman004large14jg3.th.jpg


Its more then likely that the constant direct hits from Nates blows (a combination of physical augmentation + energy surging), is what caused for Mr. Sinister to finally reach his the limits of his regenerating capacity.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6152/xman004large15je7.th.jpg



Originally posted by Evil_Ash
You also forget that Apoc has a very fast healing factor.
Apparently not fast enough for him to willing stand up to characters of his caliber or higher on his owns means.

Doom and Magneto ftw...

Originally posted by bigbran
Doom and Magneto ftw...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/smoke.png

Family Guy for the win. Stewie Griffin could solo the field with prep.

Frell. stupid links. Ok, click the link in Ash and my sigs. It goes to the Apoc respect thread. And that was a one time thing, since this is after the battle on the moon and he was severely weakened. But since this is apparently classic Apoc, he will not be so weakened.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
wnd best magic user on the planet? WTF. Yet he can't beat the FF and he hasn't managed to take over the world yet. OMG. That shit with him laying out surfer is PIS. Warlock PIS. magus. PIS. maybe kang. I'm sticking with my opinion. Doom cannot defeat Sinister or Apoc without prep. You can argue till your blue in the face. I guess doom will be the next KMC flash/superman/iceman/thanos/thor/odin over rated blah blah blah. Doom has conquered the world 3 times twice in his own reality once on the heroes roborn world.

Doom took down surfer

also took down Galactus and stole the powers of the beyonder.

Doom is a normal human being with genius intellect and armor yet he has achieved more then both Sinister and apocalypse.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
the scans of him regenerating from ooze are from the same period as the ones where he blew himself up. It's one issue later. He was still severely weakened.

The writing in Apocalypse vs. Dracula is crap. But the artwork is great.

If you want opponents on his level, how about Ikaris, the HE and the shitload of people in the third scan.

Ikaris.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3.../apocmorph3.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3.../apocmorph4.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3.../apocmorph5.png

High Evolutionary.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...n95/powers1.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...95/powers24.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...an95/powe25.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...an95/powe26.png

Loki.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...95/powers15.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...95/powers16.png

and.....Apocalypse takes X-Factor, the Inhumans, (Black Bolt!) Askani/Rachael Summers, Xmen Blue team, and Charlotte Jones w/big tech gun- hitting him with everything they had to no effect, he waded through it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Red%20Sigs/regis.jpg

Originally posted by bigbran
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Red%20Sigs/regis.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/smoke2.png

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/smoke2.png No...

Originally posted by bigbran
No...

Pity...

Mags vs Apoc

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717703_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg15.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717704_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg16.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717705_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg17.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717706_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg18.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717707_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg19.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/717708_Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg20.jpg

^ Awesome pics. I really dislike how Apoc was defeated soooo easily. Abit of PIS imo, but Mags probably still would've won without it.

Spite...

Doom solos the other 3

smh...

I had a feeling that a thread that involves Magento and Apoc will be bumped sooner or later.

Nice bump Guy
team 1 ftw.

Originally posted by Priest
I had a feeling that a thread that involves Magento and Apoc will be bumped sooner or later.
based on what?

Originally posted by Priest
I had a feeling that a thread that involves Magento and Apoc will be bumped sooner or later.

Nice bump Guy
team 1 ftw.



i agree team one ftw

Originally posted by Starscream M
based on what?

Because of the battle between Apoc and Magneto in House of M: Civil War

edit.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ Awesome pics. I really dislike how Apoc was defeated soooo easily. Abit of PIS imo, but Mags probably still would've won without it.

No, he wouldn't, except if you mean in House of M where Magneto was destined to win because of Wanda of course.

Apocalypse can be a beast or a joke. But he is more of a joke lately (with an exception of Ultimate universe).

Originally posted by Xplosive
No, he wouldn't, except if you mean in House of M where Magneto was destined to win because of Wanda of course.

Apocalypse can be a beast or a joke. But he is more of a joke lately (with an exception of Ultimate universe).

I agree, Apocalypse was easily on HE level when he was an X-factor villain in the 80's. But the 90's X-team writers jobbed him out to Stryfe, Cable, and Magneto to the point that his character became laughable. Not to mention the later stuff with Namor (the table) and Black Bolt that even further ruined his credibility. But, regarding the match up without prep time Dr. Doom in a straight up fight with either Sinister or Apocalypse gets wasted. Magneto even with his magnetic powers is still susceptible to sinister's psi powers, which were lethal in Inferno. As for Apocalypse (Classic X-factor) he would make quick work of either Doom or Magneto, considering neither one could handle his versatility ( Fights with PE Ikaris and HE) or raw power. (restraining the Hulk effortlessly)

Doom and Magneto win this. With prep they can take the others out. Doom takes on sinister and he could easily beat him. Magneto has beaten Apoc before I believe so I think its safe to say team one wins this.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No, he wouldn't, except if you mean in House of M where Magneto was destined to win because of Wanda of course. Yeah, he would.

Average of Mag's showings >> Apoc's average

Originally posted by babel10
But, regarding the match up without prep time Dr. Doom in a straight up fight with either Sinister or Apocalypse gets wasted. Magneto even with his magnetic powers is still susceptible to sinister's psi powers, which were lethal in Inferno. As for Apocalypse (Classic X-factor) he would make quick work of either Doom or Magneto, considering neither one could handle his versatility ( Fights with PE Ikaris and HE) or raw power. (restraining the Hulk effortlessly) Doom would probably take them in a straight up fight as well.

Originally posted by Faux Smurph
Yeah, he would.

Average of Mag's showings >> Apoc's average

We're going to have a nice discussion about that claim.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Doom and Magneto win this. With prep they can take the others out. Doom takes on sinister and he could easily beat him. Magneto has beaten Apoc before I believe so I think its safe to say team one wins this.

No, he has never defeated him (except if you mean AoA, non cannon). It's even assumed that it was Apocalypse who stopped Magneto during Magneto War.

Classic Apocalypse cleans with Doom and Magneto together in a straight battle.

Doom couldn't definitely take Sinister.

Anyone could beat Apocalypse, Beak could probably beat him, right Xplosive.

Originally posted by Mindset
Anyone could beat Apocalypse, Jubilee could probably beat him, right Xplosive.

I know you are joking, but honestly, lately, I wouldn't be surprised actually, if that would happen.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I know you are joking, but honestly, lately, I wouldn't be surprised actually, if that would happen. Look at my edit, I found an even shittier X-man.

Originally posted by id369
Apocalypse is obsessed with his theory of survival of the fittest. And takes a step further to ensure that only the strong survive under his rule.

But!!! Going through power augmentation only proves that he himself is not fit to lead.

And it is well known that Apocalypse is not a true immortal. The need to swap bodies emphases his own mortality. The need to enter a chamber of rejuvenation emphasizes that there is a finite use of his powers, And there is a finite amount his body can withhold before exhaustion. apocalypse's spirit is immortal, the bodies he uses get burnt out from his power so he has to exchange them.

and self modification isn't a weakness at all, he after all had the intelligence and power to acquire said amplifications from whomever previously owned them ei. stealing prosh from saul by beating him the fvck up.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doom couldn't definitely take Sinister.

Anyone could beat Apocalypse, Beak could probably beat him, right Xplosive.

QFT

apocalypse can will himself more durable than adamantium by several magnitudes, he can just sit there.

Originally posted by id369
Apocalypse is obsessed with his theory of survival of the fittest. And takes a step further to ensure that only the strong survive under his rule.

But!!! Going through power augmentation only proves that he himself is not fit to lead.

And it is well known that Apocalypse is not a true immortal. The need to swap bodies emphases his own mortality. The need to enter a chamber of rejuvenation emphasizes that there is a finite use of his powers, And there is a finite amount his body can withhold before exhaustion.

Just thought I'd jump in here- Apocolypse didn't have to "Swap" bodies before cyclops destroyed/severely damaged the original with Baby Nathan's+Jean's+His power back in Xfactor. up until then, it was his original body- though infected with a TO virus and enhanced with celestial tech.

There's a finite amount every OTHER body besides his original can hold- but it's never been indicated that was the case with his original form.

It's also worth noting that magneto tore AOA Apocalypse (who should have been using his original body in that timeline and NOT a host) Clear in half, causing what was likely fatal damage.

Magneto ALSO completely and utterly wrecked Cable's TO body effortlessly back in Xforce.. (I don't recall the issue, but it was aboard asteroid M) ..so it appears TO bodies are HIGHLY vulnerable to magnetic manipulation, powers be damned.

I'd give the edge to Doom + Magneto because of this.

WTF? this is still going on? Doom and Mags still takes this.

Originally posted by id369
WTF? this is still going on? Doom and Mags still takes this.
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/sz/pikachusgoodbye.gif Team 1 wins still

Doom/Magneto

Sinister for the win.