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Iron Fist Vs Batman H2H

Who wins?

This is the thread I meant to make, but ended up with a poorly worded open challenge version of.

With some chi on his side, and assuming Bats isn't equal to Cap, Wayne would get knocked outta NY.

Are there powers for IF?

If not... Batman ftw.

Originally posted by endrict
Iron Fist Vs Batman H2H

Who wins?

IF

Iron Fist for the win. He's one of the most skilled combatants in Marvel. He can break steel girders in half WITHOUT the use of the Iron Fist. He can amp his speed to Spidey-like-levels.

Yeah.

He'll take it.

With IF technique Danny takes it. Without IF technique its a toss up.

Batman has moved trees with kicks and can put his hand through bricks easily. One of his feats had him kick down a door designed to take a cruise missile. He has also one shotted Croc among other feats. Batman like Danny has stalemated the best MA fighters in his verse.


On speed, Ironfist is fast but he is no Spiderman, nor is Batman of course. Especially considering characters without "Dragon enhanced chi" such as Daredevil/Batgirl also have speed feats like Ironfist or equivelent.

Iron Fist

Originally posted by Daredevil1
With IF technique Danny takes it. Without IF technique its a toss up.

Batman has moved trees with kicks and can put his hand through bricks easily. One of his feats had him kick down a door designed to take a cruise missile. He has also one shotted Croc among other feats. Batman like Danny has stalemated the best MA fighters in his verse.


On speed, Ironfist is fast but he is no Spiderman, nor is Batman of course. Especially considering characters without "Dragon enhanced chi" such as Daredevil/Batgirl also have speed feats like Ironfist or equivelent.

QFT

Danny wins.

Originally posted by jasonk3
Iron Fist

cosigned

Iron Fist takes this

Batman stalemated KarateKid 313

Bats ftw

Iron Fist wouldn't need to cheat to stalemate KarateKid 313

Iron Fist ftw

Batman ftw.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Iron Fist wouldn't need to cheat to stalemate KarateKid 313

Iron Fist ftw

mhm He only cheated so he could end it faster.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Batman stalemated KarateKid 313

Bats ftw

Certainly not in the last JLA ish, he didnt.

Unless you count getting hernias over a figth against someone who just woked up of a coma and doesnt even remember who he is, to be an equal match.

Screwed up KK > Bats. Fact.

Iron fist

I think Batman has mastered more forms of combat and would win if Danny didnt use the Chi.

I see Batman as maybe a hair behind Cap in fighting ability and I see Cap as being better than Danny for sure, so,,,,

Batman 6/10 without Danny using the IF.

Originally posted by tkitna
I think Batman has mastered more forms of combat and would win if Danny didnt use the Chi.

I see Batman as maybe a hair behind Cap in fighting ability and I see Cap as being better than Danny for sure, so,,,,

Batman 6/10 without Danny using the IF.

Doesn't matter how many styles you master, that Doesn't make you a great fighter only more knowledgeable, and knowledge Doesn't just grant you a win.

It how you effective you employ what you know, along with tactful thinking and countering, which IMO batman outclasses fist. So in a way I agree with you, but not how you imply it.

However, I only voted for Iron fist because of his Iron fist attack, which batman would have no answer for in H2H.

If there were no chi amping, I believe Batman would take it.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Doesn't matter how many styles you master, that Doesn't make you a great fighter only more knowledgeable, and knowledge Doesn't just grant you a win.

It how you effective you employ what you know, along with tactful thinking and countering, which IMO batman outclasses fist. So in a way I agree with you, but not how you imply it.

However, I only voted for Iron fist because of his Iron fist attack, which batman would have no answer for in H2H.

If there were no chi amping, I believe Batman would take it.

I agree with what your saying, but i'm stating my opinion in the same fashion as how Captain America told Danny he was good, but he was nowhere good enough to beat him and I think Danny is a better martial artist than Cap. I'm leaning towards Batman being the same as Cap in that context.

Originally posted by tkitna
I agree with what your saying, but i'm stating my opinion in the same fashion as how Captain America told Danny he was good, but he was nowhere good enough to beat him and I think Danny is a better martial artist than Cap. I'm leaning towards Batman being the same as Cap in that context.

I agree, danny is the better martial artist (fancy moves and stances) but not the better fighter (using what you know, tactful thinking and countering) then cap.

Batman is both, he has more knowledge then danny and a smarter fighter, which is why batman in pure H2H would take 6-7/10.

But batman has never fought someone like an amped up danny. Iron fist would be too strong, too fast, too durable (he can deaden his body to pain) and will posses just enough skill to take 6/10 on batman

Batman would still put up one hell of a fight however.

Originally posted by batdude123
...

Iron Fist sucks.

With or without using the Iron Fist, Danny Rand takes this fight.

In pure skill, I see Bruce as his superior.

Originally posted by batdude123
In pure skill, I see Bruce as his superior.

You may want to invest in some spectacles, then. 313.

Originally posted by Soljer
You may want to invest in some spectacles, then. 313.

I can see fine. ermmhappy

"Yours are the most finely honed martial arts skills in the world."

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6513/finestmartialartsnx0.jpg

313.

Originally posted by Soljer
"Yours are the most finely honed martial arts skills in the world."

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6513/finestmartialartsnx0.jpg

313.

That's great, but at the end of the day, it's just a statement.

IMO, Batman has better feats.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's great, but at the end of the day, it's just a statement.

IMO, Batman has better feats.

And it's an opinion you're welcome to have.

Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. .

Nor does it change the fact that Danny takes a strong majority. .

Originally posted by Soljer
"Yours are the most finely honed martial arts skills in the world."

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6513/finestmartialartsnx0.jpg

313.
to be fair most top tiers have said they were the best fighter/MA people on the plant does not make it true.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
to be fair most top tiers have said they were the best fighter/MA people on the plant does not make it true.

Exactly!

The quote is coming from his own mouth. It would mean something if somebody like Shang-Chi said it or Daredevil. Bragging on yourself means nothing.

Originally posted by tkitna
Exactly!

The quote is coming from his own mouth. It would mean something if somebody like Shang-Chi said it or Daredevil. Bragging on yourself means nothing.

That quote is coming from the omniscient narrator, not Danny himself.

Regardless, it was more of a joke than anything. If I wanted to prove danny's skills, I wouldn't use that scan. .

Originally posted by Soljer
That quote is coming from the omniscient narrator, not Danny himself.

Regardless, it was more of a joke than anything. If I wanted to prove danny's skills, I wouldn't use that scan. .
I figured as much .

Originally posted by Soljer
And it's an opinion you're welcome to have.

Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. .

Nor does it change the fact that Danny takes a strong majority. .

Nah, I disagree.

Batman is too good and has too many good feats to his credit to make me think Danny would win a strong majority.

with IF power he win every time

Originally posted by Battlehammer
with IF power he win every time

He wouldn't win every time.

He's been given good fights by nearly all of the Marvel street level fighters. That kind of a blow out would NOT occur.

Hand to hand
Power up Danny 8-9/10

Regular Danny 7/10 Ironfist

Danny's to tough skill to match and dragon enhancement.

Pretty much.

Insane skill matched with chi-amped speed, strength, and striking power. Plus healing, ranged 'hand to hand' attacks, and et cetera?

Danny beat the freaking Wrecking Crew..........and spidey, and he hurt guys like Luke Cage without amping.

He really does have the feats to take bats for a majority, with or without his chi powers. And incidently, he's got some new and improved shit, like the 'Lightning from God' as someone put it. Can I get a scan of that?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Danny beat the freaking Wrecking Crew..........and spidey, and he hurt guys like Luke Cage without amping.

He really does have the feats to take bats for a majority, with or without his chi powers. And incidently, he's got some new and improved shit, like the 'Lightning from God' as someone put it. Can I get a scan of that?

Danny himself hasn't done the lightning from god - amping a projectile weapon with Chi (guns or arrows).

However, we know that at least two previous Iron Fists have (Orson Randall with firearms, Wu Ao-Shi with bow and arrow). We also know that Danny has been studying the kung fu (and chi secrets) of the Iron Fists of 'yester year.'

I wouldn't be surprised if he shows it off, but Danny has always been more of a "get down and dirty" fighter. I don't see him relying on arrows or firearms, personally.

He DID charge a sword with chi, however, showing that, at the very least, he CAN charge other objects.

He also healed without thinking, mastered the hypnotic fist, and learned to meditate to see the future/remote view. And expanded his repertoire - learning potentially infinite ways to kill men. .

I'm a fan of both of these characters, and, as you might have guessed if you saw me arguing in the Karnak vs. Batman thread, I know what Batman's capable of.

I just don't feel he's capable of Iron Fist. .

The thing about it is, Batman has TONS of comparable feats to Iron Fist, and in some cases, better feats than Danny.

I can see how people would think Iron Fist would take a majority, however I disagree. A lot of people here stereotype Batman as a regular human guy in a Batsuit, yet they don't realize what he's capable of, or have actually seen some of his incredibly impressive feats.

But I have. I've seen Batman's best - and I don't feel it's enough to put down Daniel Rand. Especially now.

Originally posted by Soljer
But I have. I've seen Batman's best - and I don't feel it's enough to put down Daniel Rand. Especially now.

I've seen Iron Fist's best as well.

Nothing out and out more impressive than what Batman has accomplished over the years, imo.

Originally posted by batdude123
I've seen Iron Fist's best as well.

Nothing out and out more impressive than what Batman has accomplished over the years, imo.

You can repeat yourself all you like, but you haven't shown, or even described, anything impressive yet, my friend - and, so far, the consensus isn't in your favor. .

Originally posted by batdude123
I've seen Iron Fist's best as well.

Nothing out and out more impressive than what Batman has accomplished over the years, imo.



I give Batman his due. He can defeat Shang 6-7/10 IMO. He just the tougher better fighter IMO. With all his many mixed styles that he has learned over his life. He's a jack of all trades if you will.


But in hand to hand not many can defeat Danny with a one shot wonder, even Shang-Chi pails before Danny thanks to his Dragon enhancement.

Originally posted by Soljer
You can repeat yourself all you like, but you haven't shown, or even described, anything impressive yet, my friend - and, so far, the consensus isn't in your favor. .

To be fair, that's exactly what you've been doing as well. Saying Iron Fist is more impressive.

Based on what both combatants have shown, I'd give the slight majority to Batman in a h2h encounter.

And I could care less about the consensus around here. Logical fallacy of appealing to the majority. That doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I give Batman his due. He can defeat Shang 6-7/10 IMO. He just the tougher better fighter IMO. With all his many mixed styles that he has learned over his life. He's a jack of all trades if you will.


But in hand to hand not many can defeat Danny with a one shot wonder, even Shang-Chi pails before Danny thanks to his Dragon enhancement.

Shang Chi stalemated Iron Fist in a fight, btw.

Originally posted by batdude123



Shang Chi stalemated Iron Fist in a fight, btw.

And Iron Fist stomped Shen Kuei.

Hm.

Batman

Originally posted by batdude123
Shang Chi stalemated Iron Fist in a fight, btw.



Stalemating is correct but I'd give Danny still the majority, if the fight would have continued. Especially if you consider that was the old Danny.

Danny later could throw more IF's tech without draining him self useless before Power-up.

And current Danny is a beast with the powerup/new tricks.

The most probable winner is Batman. He will take out Iron Fist with a single nerve strike:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/jlaincarnations2-batvsupergorillas1.jpg


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Battle%20Tactics/batoutsiders10-batvscoldwave1.jpg

Lol IF rapes the shit outta Batman.

Originally posted by Mindset
Lol IF rapes the shit outta Batman.

Based on ?

You can argue that he has a better striking power thanks to the Iron Fist but for the rest Batman is clearly a lot more skilled and tactically better, far smarter.

Originally posted by endrict
Iron Fist Vs Batman H2H

Who wins?

I don't see "no Iron Fist".

Danny can level up to a city block (Or an apartment building, which he's done far more often.)

But lets forget highballing this: How, exactly, does Batman beat the Iron Fist, if Danny simply kept it ready?

Even by the most conservative estimate, Batman isn't dancing around him. (Did he dance around Flagg? Does he dance around Joker?)

You could call them peers/equals if you want (I personally think Rand is faster, but for arguments sake)

If we say they're roughly equal, all Rand needs do is keep that glowing hand ready, and pick his shot. Armor ain't blocking it, and Batman isn't punching through it. It's effectively a sword and shield. Trading punch's is a recipie for defeat.

Equals ?

The portrayal of the characters doesn't show them on the same planet skill-wise, even that's a crossover Batman is portrayed as a more skilled character.

http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/dau9.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111252372/4840074-4625714-2496037008-batma.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
Lol IF rapes the shit outta Batman.

Do you want some Battlezone or not ?

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Do you want some Battlezone or not ? Why tf would I want to do that?

Originally posted by Mindset
Why tf would I want to do that?

I think that it could be interesting to share our viewpoints about two characters in a more formal way.

Would you like to try it with Iron Fist against a FONTS-related character represented by me ?

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I think that it could be interesting to share our viewpoints about two characters in a more formal way.

Would you like to try it with Iron Fist against a FONTS-related character represented by me ? I don't care enough about any of this for that kind of effort.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't care enough about any of this for that kind of effort.

Ok. Too bad.

Sharivan found excuses to avoid the Battlezone too.

It's up to you.

I'm not making excuses, I'm never going to do a BZ with you.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Ok. Too bad.

Sharivan found excuses to avoid the Battlezone too.

It's up to you.

Name dropping and baiting is bad form, and tends to get people banned.

Please don't do it again.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Name dropping and baiting is bad form, and tends to get people banned.

Please don't do it again.

No problem.

However I am still interested for a Battlezone VS Iron Fist if there is any takers.

Batman is far superior in h2h.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Equals ?

The portrayal of the characters doesn't show them on the same planet skill-wise, even that's a crossover Batman is portrayed as a more skilled character.


More skilled? Since it states that the kick was more startling than painful, I don't see how it has any bearing on their skill.

You can get startled by a three-year old kicking you in the stomach - doesn't mean the toddler can now kick your butt in a fight.

Since this is pure H2H, my vote goes to Iron Fist. If it was a full-on fight, no holding back with Bats allowed to use all his tricks and gear, my vote would go for him.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Batman is far superior in h2h.

AGREED.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
More skilled? Since it states that the kick was more startling than painful, I don't see how it has any bearing on their skill.

You can get startled by a three-year old kicking you in the stomach - doesn't mean the toddler can now kick your butt in a fight.

Since this is pure H2H, my vote goes to Iron Fist. If it was a full-on fight, no holding back with Bats allowed to use all his tricks and gear, my vote would go for him.

Batman is a lot more skilled in H2H.

His battle tactics are better, he has a better ratio against more skilled peak humans than Danny and on top of that his pressure-points techniques proves him on another level than Iron Fist.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The most probable winner is Batman. He will take out Iron Fist with a single nerve strike:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/jlaincarnations2-batvsupergorillas1.jpg


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Battle%20Tactics/batoutsiders10-batvscoldwave1.jpg

Batman isn't even the best H2H fighter in the Bat family, according to his writer. He's number #3, ranked after Dick Grayson.

Pressure points might work against completely unskilled opponents, who have never trained in any form of martial arts, but that is meaningless against a skilled opponent.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Batman isn't even the best H2H fighter in the Bat family, according to his writer. He's number #3, ranked after Dick Grayson.

He is till better than Danny feat wise in term of battle tactics and hand-to-hand skills.

I don't see how his rating in the Bat-family matters at all.

On the other hand, Danny is still below the likes of Captain America and Wolverine skill-wise and both have always been portrayed at Batman-level.





Danny don't have any pressure-point feats at Batman-level, it is very dubious he could defend against it.

Danny failed to affected the Hulk and Spider-man with his pressure-point attacks while Batman was able to paralyse or disable superhuman beings.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Batman isn't even the best H2H fighter in the Bat family, according to his writer. He's number #3, ranked after Dick Grayson.

Pressure points might work against completely unskilled opponents, who have never trained in any form of martial arts, but that is meaningless against a skilled opponent.
According to ONE writer, who is currently working on him. Just an opinion of one man. His feats and portrayal suggest otherwise. The master of all MA combats on earth. He MASTERED them all. So no, h2h wise Danny can't lit a candle in Batmans shadow.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

1) He is till better than Danny feat wise in term of battle tactics and hand-to-hand skills.

2) I don't see how his rating in the Bat-family matters at all.

3) On the other hand, Danny is still below the likes of Captain America and Wolverine skill-wise and both have always been portrayed at Batman-level.

4) Danny don't have any pressure-point feats at Batman-level, it is very dubious he could defend against it.

5) Danny failed to affected the Hulk and Spider-man with his pressure-point attacks while Batman was able to paralyse or disable superhuman beings.

1) Battle tactics yes, H2H no.

2) You don't see how the fact that Batman isn't even the best H2H fighter in the Bat family, never mind the DC universe, matters in a H2H fight? Okay.

3) Every Marvel ranking I've seen put Iron Fist above Cap and Wolverine. Would you care to share a link?
Here is mine: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=451069&pagenumber=5

4) Again, demonstrating pressure point-feats against unskilled opponents is meaningless, but if you want to insist:

Here Danny demonstrates a nerve pinch on an unskilled opponent.
https://i.imgur.com/p9afpKn.jpg

Here Danny reflects on his capabilities, specifically mentioning the Black-Black Poison Touch.
https://i.imgur.com/ZiRi3br.jpg

5) Your very own post proves the opposite, as it specifically states that Batman's kick didn't hurt the Hulk, it startled him.

To counter: Here are two posts demonstrating Danny's speed:

Catching a bullet after he's been poisoned:
https://i.imgur.com/mzHglT3.jpg

Moving several feet to catch a bullet when a woman pulls a trigger to kill herself.
http://imgur.com/a/Fup9N

Originally posted by Dreampanther
1) Battle tactics yes, H2H no.

Sure. Danny get rag-dolled by Cap while he fights on an equal ground with Batman.

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186844/4729127-8867436466-24032.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111239002/4755174-captain-america-vs-batman-crossover-photo-2.jpg

That means that Batman his more skilled than Danny while the latter has to rely on his Iron Fist to try to fight on an equal ground.




That "argument" is pointless. The point is to compare Danny and Bruce skills.






Your opinion on the matter is just an opinion.

By feats, Danny is inferior in skills to many in the Marvel Universe whom are equal to Batman.




ROFL.

That"s not even in a combat situation.

Danny comes from being a mob and headlock him while applying the pressure point.

I showed to you Batman pressure-pointing opponents in combat.

Your scan is irrelevant.




Do you mind showing Danny using it on an opponent statements can't be taken as face-value if they aren't backed-up by feats.



It affected the Hulk while Danny's kick did literally nothing.

The difference is vast.




Those two scans are pointless.

I showed you Batman engaging and beating opponents in an hand-to-hand situation twice.

You are trying to move the goalpost to Danny avoiding projectiles which completely off topic.

If you want to argue for Danny hand-to-hand skills you have to post feats related to hand-to-hand skills.

Originally posted by joesha28
Danny wins.

10 years and the debate is still ongoing!!!

Doesn't Cap's shield absorb force? Hulk can punch it, and nothing happens?

I like how the IF knocks Cap backwards.

Originally posted by RealityWarper


1) Your opinion on the matter is just an opinion.

2) By feats, Danny is inferior in skills to many in the Marvel Universe whom are equal to Batman.

3) It affected the Hulk while Danny's kick did literally nothing.

4) You are trying to move the goalpost to Danny avoiding projectiles which completely off topic.



First, your scans: Again your own scans prove you a liar. In that same issue, Cap remarks on the fact that Danny is pulling his punches, even though he doesn't know why. And that backhand from Danny that Cap catches on his shield, which is supposed to absorb kinetic energy, still sends Cap flying through a wall.

Would you like me to post those scans?

Next, your claims/statements.

1) So is yours.

2) Proof?

3) So now we have moved from "paralysed and disabled" to "affected". Lol. Just call it what it was: Startled.

4) So now catching bullets has somehow become avoiding projectiles?

I must confess, I am very impressed by your ability to look at a scan, completely ignore what is there and state with complete confidence that it means something else.

There is a huge difference between dodging bullets and catching them, a feat Batman has never even attempted. For good reason.

He can't do it. Because he's not in Danny's class.

Originally posted by cdtm
Doesn't Cap's shield absorb force? Hulk can punch it, and nothing happens?

I like how the IF knocks Cap backwards.

Ha. Beat me to it.

Also find it interesting that when it's Bats vs Cap, it's pure H2H, but when it's Danny vs Cap, he needs to use his shield...

As someone who can't stand Iron Fist, even I admit he would win.................a forum fight. He loses badly in a comic because of Batman's jobber aura/PIS/CIS/writer armor.

^^^^

that way

In comic, Bruce would more likely KO Danny from slapping him upside the head every time he opens him mouth.

Also, I doubt a comic Batman would let himself end up in a position where he has to fight Danny H2H.

He fought Shredder in power armor.

So yeah.

And took surprise hits from a bloodlusted GoW Amped Wonder Woman, whilst injured and half naked.

subsequent to that, he's now faster and stronger.

And dodged HV from a bloodlusted Superman AFTER it was fired.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
subsequent to that, he's now faster and stronger.

So is Danny, I believe (I haven't read Iron Fist in a while).

From a Respect Thread:

"A couple years back, Danny was given an even bigger upgrade when he absorbed the energy of a previous Iron Fist, and was said to have his sense of self increased 10,000 fold and his powers posses infinite depth. He also is able to manipulate his chi into concussive blasts.

Some Feats:

Taking down a kinetic energy eating monster by taking out it's Achilles Tendon.

Eliminating an opponent before the bullet can leave the gun's barrel.

Destroying a train with enough raw explosives to, "make Hiroshima look like a sparkler". He also absorbs some of the kinetic energy of the blast.

Through simulations, takes out Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Captain America. (He gets the surprise attack on Spider-Man, but the feat is still impressive).

With one punch, takes out a Helicarrier."

Link here:
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/203b9t/respect_iron_fist/

Oh no, I meant AFTER he took the hits from WW (without his armour) he was subsequently made stronger and faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh no, I meant AFTER he took the hits from WW (without his armour) he was subsequently made stronger and faster.

Oh, I wasn't arguing with you.

Just pointing out that Danny got some upgrades too, from what I understand.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And took surprise hits from a bloodlusted GoW Amped Wonder Woman, whilst injured and half naked.

subsequent to that, he's now faster and stronger.

And dodged HV from a bloodlusted Superman AFTER it was fired.

That would make him fast as Flash.

I hate to call PIS foul on anything, but just saying, that would make him Val Arnorr or Wally West.

Which he may well be at now, depends on if those kinds of feats stick.

Too true.

Does Danny have h2h feats with heralds too, then? Taking their blows, fighting others, and dodging attacks?

@cdtm I call PIS on it too, but its Batsy, he's chock full of PIS. Hence why he's a better match for Cap.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Too true.

Does Danny have h2h feats with heralds too, then? Taking their blows, fighting others, and dodging attacks?

Early days, he landed a good kick on a speedster. Impossible to say exactly how fast he was, but his powers aged him in short order.

Also KO'd Bres, a one shot character from Avengers best known for manhandling Thor and getting KO'd by weakness exploit (Iron Man's "Iron".

Not really as impressive as hanging with f'n Superman or Wonder Woman, but it's something.

Oh, and The Living Weapon series gets a bit crazy.

I hated it for all the SJW content, but he brought a skyscraper to life there and piloted it like a mech to fight a giant flame monster that was sucking souls from New York/The Earth (In Marvel, aren't they the same thing? )

And then amped himself up even more and just flew at the creature and punched it, way up in the skyline.

He was amped, but it was implied the final amp stuck (Which it clearly did not looking at Power Man and Iron Fist.)

Bottom line, the series was written by a Canadian SJW who must have been smoking some really good stuff.

Just posting the link here for reference purposes.

Iron Fist Revamped Respect Thread

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=554998&pagenumber=2

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111202704/5217418-5216083-hp4qmfd.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3647707-sparring+2.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111202704/5217417-3647708-sparring%2B3.jpg

Wolverine is near Batman level, above Black Panther and IF.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111202704/5217418-5216083-hp4qmfd.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3647707-sparring+2.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111202704/5217417-3647708-sparring%2B3.jpg

Wolverine is near Batman level, above Black Panther and IF. a sparring match in which neither of them are using their powers is indicative of how a real fight between them would go now? Last time I checked, Logan had a healing factor and adamantine laced bones, Danny couldn't pull any bone breaking moves on him and his healing factor insured that Danny couldn't knock him out. Not only that, but in that very same series, Danny does a far better job of fighting gorgon than Logan ever did.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
First, your scans: Again your own scans prove you a liar. In that same issue, Cap remarks on the fact that Danny is pulling his punches, even though he doesn't know why. And that backhand from Danny that Cap catches on his shield, which is supposed to absorb kinetic energy, still sends Cap flying through a wall.

A)Iron Fist isn't "pulling his punches". He is even surprised that Captain America is able to roll with the blows.

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186844/4729126-1018769835-84347.jpg

"Pulling the punches" doesn't reduce the skill, unfortunately this argument is invalid.




You failed to provide evidence by posting irrelevancies so far...




I presented evidence for everything so that's my opinion.



I already posted multiples examples of Batman one-shotting superhuman with light touches, Danny has nothing on that order.



I compared the effects of the attacks that both did to the Hulk.

Danny did nothing.

Batman provoked an involuntary reflexes.

That means that Batman's skills are superior to Danny as it have been demonstrated many times in that thread.




That's on the same order, an irrelevancy.

That's a typical red herring from someone whom is trying to avoid posting hand-to-hand feats which are asked in that thread.



You must confess that you are borrowing the account of a friend because if nobody noticed I know who you are. After the irrelevancies, the personal attacks.




There is something that they have in common.

None of those feats are relevant to that thread.

Now, if you have no relevant feats to add to that thread please restrain responding to me again.

You obviously want to spam irrelevancies and I'm not interested in reading them again.

Don't forget batman two shooting grundy who just a few seconds earlier was taking on Gotham and Gotham girl at the same time and getting the better of them. When it comes to high showing feats it's not even close

Or Bats taking hits from, then KOing Brute. The guy who OHKOs Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Don't forget batman two shooting grundy who just a few seconds earlier was taking on Gotham and Gotham girl at the same time and getting the better of them. When it comes to high showing feats it's not even close

+1

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or Bats taking hits from, then KOing Brute. The guy who OHKOs Wonder Woman.

+1



I'm seconding you on this guys.

There's a difference between them listing feats and condoning them.

Even if every single one believes Bruce wins, I'm reasonably certain they wouldn't be arguing he beats down, say, Spidey... Which Bruce's highs certainly make a possibility, even against Firelord..

Originally posted by cdtm
There's a difference between them listing feats and condoning them.

Even if every single one believes Bruce wins, I'm reasonably certain they wouldn't be arguing he beats down, say, Spidey... Which Bruce's highs certainly make a possibility, even against Firelord..

Spidey had his superhuman physicals, limited precog, superior agility, "unpredictable" acrobatic fighting style and his vastly superior striking power against Firelord.

Batman and Iron Fist are close when it comes to the physicals stats so the hand-to-hand skills are discussed.

As you said yourself, he's enhanced normal.

Pretty much always amping himself with chi, and before pulling out the Iron Fist. (Same with Shang Chi.)

Originally posted by cdtm
As you said yourself, he's enhanced normal.

Nope.

It is a big misconception.

Danny is an athlete in normal and by athlete Marvel means the competitive Olympic athlete.


I think that the vast majority of people backing-up Danny doesn't understand how his abilities work.

That's probably comes from an ignorance of basics in martial arts legends and stuff like that.



When Danny focus his own Chi then he becomes a peak human and what Marvel think as a peak human is the kind that outclasses Olympic athletes by a vast margin.

The only stat that Danny rise to enhanced human level by focusing his own Chi is his durability. Here we have Marvel's representation of the Shaolin Monks "STEEL SHIRT TECHNIQUE.

The Chi of Shou-Lao have other purposes like enhancing Danny's striking power to superhuman-level by making his hand superhumanly durable.

Originally posted by cdtm
That would make him fast as Flash.

I hate to call PIS foul on anything, but just saying, that would make him Val Arnorr or Wally West.

Which he may well be at now, depends on if those kinds of feats stick.



https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Nope.

It is a big misconception.

Danny is an athlete in normal and by athlete Marvel means the competitive Olympic athlete.


I think that the vast majority of people backing-up Danny doesn't understand how his abilities work.

That's probably comes from an ignorance of basics in martial arts legends and stuff like that.



When Danny focus his own Chi then he becomes a peak human and what Marvel think as a peak human is the kind that outclasses Olympic athletes by a vast margin.

The only stat that Danny rise to enhanced human level by focusing his own Chi is his durability. Here we have Marvel's representation of the Shaolin Monks "STEEL SHIRT TECHNIQUE.

The Chi of Shou-Lao have other purposes like enhancing Danny's striking power to superhuman-level by making his hand superhumanly durable.

If his speed isn't enhanced, how do you explain catching a sniper round at point blank range? (Sniper guns tend to be more powerful then small arms, and thus faster.)

Originally posted by cdtm
If his speed isn't enhanced, how do you explain catching a sniper round at point blank range? (Sniper guns tend to be more powerful then small arms, and thus faster.)

Which instance are you speaking about ?

By the way I think that you are oversimplificating my posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qY0DA7DG9s

Aim-dodging bullets is still irrelevant to that thread.

From an Immortal Iron Fist annual. Can post scans later, but his back was essentially to the window, and he caught the shot in his hand.

Originally posted by cdtm
From an Immortal Iron Fist annual. Can post scans later, but his back was essentially to the window, and he caught the shot in his hand.

I know what you are referring to...

There was no sniper, the Hydra agents all used automatic rifles. Danny sensed them a long time before they began to shoot, the shot was going through a window, etc...

But that's completely irrelevant to a hand-to-hand combat situation so I don't get why you are bringing that feat.

Do you want to Battlezone with me ?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

I see what's going on here.

Bats didn't dodge them. His burn was so epic, they froze in their tracks from inadequacy.

Originally posted by RealityWarper


1) Iron Fist isn't "pulling his punches". He is even surprised that Captain America is able to roll with the blows.

2) "Pulling the punches" doesn't reduce the skill, unfortunately this argument is invalid.

3) You failed to provide evidence by posting irrelevancies so far...

4) I presented evidence for everything so that's my opinion.

5) I already posted multiples examples of Batman one-shotting superhuman with light touches, Danny has nothing on that order.

6) I compared the effects of the attacks that both did to the Hulk. Danny did nothing. Batman provoked an involuntary reflexes. That means that Batman's skills are superior to Danny as it have been demonstrated many times in that thread.

7) That's on the same order, an irrelevancy. That's a typical red herring from someone whom is trying to avoid posting hand-to-hand feats which are asked in that thread.

8) You must confess that you are borrowing the account of a friend because if nobody noticed I know who you are. After the irrelevancies, the personal attacks.

9) There is something that they have in common. None of those feats are relevant to that thread. Now, if you have no relevant feats to add to that thread please restrain responding to me again. You obviously want to spam irrelevancies and I'm not interested in reading them again.

1) Either you are woefully misinformed or you are deliberately being deceitful, but this directly contradicts your statement.
http://i.imgur.com/B7dYdgo.jpg

2) "Pulling your punches" literally means not hitting the other fighter as hard as you can. Perhaps you simply do not understand English idioms, or how holding back means a fighter is not fighting to the best of his abilities because he does not want to hurt his opponent? This might prove helpful:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pull+punches

3) I asked if you wanted me to post the scans. Since you insist, I will post some at 5) (I can see why you didn't want them posted).

4) When you present evidence, you don't need an opinion. That's what evidence does, it proves something true or false, so your opinion is redundant.

5) Since you insisted:

Iron Fist taking out Nightcrawler, Wolverine and sending Colossus flying.

http://i.imgur.com/ZOls7zF.jpg



Iron Fist taking out Hercules in one punch.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125504/4208088-1+shots+hercules



Iron Fist taking out Luke Cage with a kick and a punch

http://i.imgur.com/jVtRQXr.jpg



Iron Fist taking Cage out with a single punch.

http://i.imgur.com/cVfxAD6.jpg

6) You mean you were wrong (either deliberately or through ignorance, just like when you claimed Danny didn't pull his punches) when you first stated Batman's attack "paralysed and disabled". Then you backpedaled to"affected", and now it has become "provoking an involuntary reflex". Just say it: Startled. Batman S-T-A-R-T-L-E-D the Hulk, which does prove, in fact, that Batman was better at startling the Hulk than Danny was.

7) First: Who, not whom. You only use whom when you refer to the object of a verb or preposition, not the subject. But hey, at least you tried.

Second: You think handspeed is irrelevant in a fight? You think it is irrelevant that a trained martial artist shows the ability to catch a bullet in flight? Or are you just trying to obfuscate the fact that you, again, ignored the evidence and somehow turned "catching a bullet' into "avoiding a projectile"?

8) Now this, honestly, made me smile. I don't know who you think I am or whose account I am borrowing, but I am dying of curiosity. So, who do you think I am? And who is my friend? In case you haven't noticed, I live in South Africa. The closest thing I have to friends here on KMC is the people I interact regularly with and whose opinions I respect.

And by the way, that wasn't a personal attack. That was a conclusion I drew based on the fact that at least twice I have proved that you either deliberately lied or couldn't your read own scans correctly.

Why so paranoid? Why would I get personal with you or try to hide my identity when it is much simpler and easier to just prove your claims are wrong using evidence?

9) First: "Refrain from", not "restrain". Second, if I were you, I would also implore me to stop responding. It must feel horrible having all your claims proven wrong.

Does IF hit harder than Batman with his Iron Fist? Yes, sure. But is he more skilled? No, never ever. I see you got your opinion and you clearly don't know the difference between h2h skills and punching hard...

The Cage scans are good, I'd argue Herc was wasted in that scan though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The Cage scans are good, I'd argue Herc was wasted in that scan though.

Yes, he was drunk.

Once I get to my laptop, maybe I can contribute a few things.

I'm pretty disorganized though, it's why I've never bz'd before. Would nees like a week just to ger everything together.

He was drunk and mortal at the time, I believe. Though the whole shit with Herc losing and regaining his immortality is something Marvel never really managed to clear up.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
1) Either you are woefully misinformed or you are deliberately being deceitful, but this directly contradicts your statement.
http://i.imgur.com/B7dYdgo.jpg

2) "Pulling your punches" literally means not hitting the other fighter as hard as you can. Perhaps you simply do not understand English idioms, or how holding back means a fighter is not fighting to the best of his abilities because he does not want to hurt his opponent? This might prove helpful:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pull+punches

Unfortunately the statement that Cap made was after Danny kicked him.

http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/6u5y.jpg

But we already know that Danny tried to KO Cap' and even used the Iron Fist against which is clearly a proof of not holding back.

http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/vvzk.jpg

Cap' isn't KO because he rolled with the blow which means that Iron Fist was trying to KO him.


http://zupimages.net/up/17/11/t255.jpg


Danny use the Iron Fist which means he try to beat Cap' with his best attack.






Because they will be out-of-context and a waste of time to read for a character I already know.




That's why I provide evidence and you provide an opinion.




He didn't KO any of them.





Hercules was MORTAL, DEPOWERED, WEAKENED at this time and DRUNK.

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120556/5545890-3857207111-v1_1_.jpg





Luke Cage isn't the impressive badass that you want him to be.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/19539/5674180-luke+cage.jpg





I've never said that Hulk was "paralysed and disabled" which you would have noticed if didn't push your post to make useless strawman.

That is my original post:

Originally posted by RealityWarper
He is till better than Danny feat wise in term of battle tactics and hand-to-hand skills.

I don't see how his rating in the Bat-family matters at all.

On the other hand, Danny is still below the likes of Captain America and Wolverine skill-wise and both have always been portrayed at Batman-level.





Danny don't have any pressure-point feats at Batman-level, it is very dubious he could defend against it.

Danny failed to affected the Hulk and Spider-man with his pressure-point attacks while Batman was able to paralyse or disable superhuman beings.

Here is the two sentences we are talking about:

"Danny don't have any pressure-point feats at Batman-level, it is very dubious he could defend against it.

Danny failed to affected the Hulk and Spider-man with his pressure-point attacks while Batman was able to paralyse or disable superhuman beings.

Keyword:

"Superhuman beings".

I've never said that Batman was able to do anything to the Hulk but affect him.







I didn't back-pedalled on anything, "startled" and "provoked an involuntary reflex" are actually the same thing and that's what I said since the beginning.

My original statement was about superhuman-beings not the Hulk, which you would have understand the first time if you had a correct ability to read and understand.

Nice strawman dude, probably involuntary due to poor reading skills.



Thanks for the tip.

English isn't my mother-tongue, it seems it isn't yours either.




I think that you are using loaded question.

I think that only hand-to-hand feats are relevant in a fight concerning close-quarter combat and that your speculations can't be taken at face-value.

I'm inviting you at using evidence AKA showing combat feats.

Projectile stuff are irrelevant to the topic at hand.




Sure. Your debating style is very predictable.

I guess that if I am paranoid all of your claims can be only due to some form of group thinking.




We saw that. I had to bring you back to the true context. Again.

You wasn't even capable to read my post properly about Batman's pressure-point abilities.




Keywords:

Predictable fallacious claims.

Group thinking mentality.



Thanks for the English tips again, they will help me to improve however I advice you to read my post many times and try to understand it this time.

Your strawman was ludicrous and shows that you aren't capable to fully read a post with FIVE sentences.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Does IF hit harder than Batman with his Iron Fist? Yes, sure. But is he more skilled? No, never ever. I see you got your opinion and you clearly don't know the difference between h2h skills and punching hard...

I see you clearly didn't read any of the posts. Or just read into them what you wanted to. Which seems about par for the course. I posted those in direct response to RW's continual complaint that I didn't post something on the order of "one-shotting superhumans".

I wasn't trying to demonstrate his skill. If I wanted to demonstrate his skill, I would have posted something like this:

Taking out an opponent even as a bullet leaves his gun:

http://i.imgur.com/oaHaUL5.jpg



Or taking out 88 SHIELD agents in seven minutes while holding back...

http://i.imgur.com/RnUX5ZM.jpg



...while it is noted that if he had cut loose, he could have done it in seconds.

http://i.imgur.com/tHLeT6x.jpg




Taking out Cat with a couple of punches

http://i.imgur.com/30vpC0J.jpg




Or, perhaps, this one of him defeating an inhuman ninja assassin with 2,000 years of experience.

http://i.imgur.com/Y9zbLMg.jpg

Sorry RW, but Cap made that statement for a reason.

Wolverine charged Cap with his claws in AvX, missed and stuck the Avengers jet wall. Does that mean he was trying to kill Cap?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was drunk and mortal at the time, I believe. Though the whole shit with Herc losing and regaining his immortality is something Marvel never really managed to clear up.

I've been looking around forever. Either it doesn't exist, or it's in some obscure one shot (The Wrecking Crew beat down from an Iron Fist origin is like that. You won't find it just by Googling around.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Sorry RW, but Cap made that statement for a reason.

Wolverine charged Cap with his claws in AvX, missed and stuck the Avengers jet wall. Does that mean he was trying to kill Cap?

That was after the kick.

IF said that Cap' rolled with his punch meaning he expected to do greater damages.

Originally posted by cdtm
I've been looking around forever. Either it doesn't exist, or it's in some obscure one shot (The Wrecking Crew beat down from an Iron Fist origin is like that. You won't find it just by Googling around.)

I've already posted the scan.

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120556/5545890-3857207111-v1_1_.jpg

I already said he was drunk and mortal. Was talking about when he recovered his godhood. Seems like it was never written.

Originally posted by cdtm
I already said he was drunk and mortal. Was talking about when he recovered his godhood. Seems like it was never written.

Yep. That's correct.

It's assumed he regained it in his Hercules mini when he redid his trials