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The Living Tribunal versus Spectre's most powerful incarnation.
--Keep in mind that the source is not the Presence, it's like God compared to the Holy Spirit.
But he is pretty much the second most powerful being in DC, how would he fare against the second most powerful being in Marvel?

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3984/ltrulescl3jl0.th.jpg VS http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1685/spectredx1nm6.th.jpg

--I am aware of that the results of the poll we be affected a lot by the fanboyism, whichever way it turns, however I am going to vote draw.
- Why?
Because I compare the Living Tribunal and Spectre to Eternity and Galactus (not powerwise but, in principe)
The Living Tribunal is Eternity.
Spectre is Galactus.

Galactus at full power equals Eternity
Spectre at full power equals the Living Tribunal.

Stalemate.






So any bets on who will be the first person to bring up THOTI?

Spectre w/ The Source.
It's the power of all creation.
He pretty much became God.. as the page before that one shows.

By reading the Spectre scan and knowing by heart what the LT scan says,

Stalemate.

Go with Galan and Mr master on this one Stalemate, no winner but a lot of destroyed realities

Originally posted by Galan007
Stalemate.






So any bets on who will be the first person to bring up THOTI?
I don't know, probably Board Walker, he have a bad habbit of doing so. However, are you sure you didn't cast your vote at the Tribunal, I mean, I am pretty sure I voted stalemate.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I don't know, probably Board Walker, he have a bad habbit of doing so. However, are you sure you didn't cast your vote at the Tribunal, I mean, I am pretty sure I voted stalemate. I didn't vote period.

Originally posted by Galan007
So any bets on who will be the first person to bring up THOTI?

Galan007 just did

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Galan007 just did Son of a B*tch!

true living trubunal has never been shown and is completely

Omnipotence
Omniscience
Omnipresence

Originally posted by lionking
true living trubunal has never been shown and is completely

Omnipotence
Omniscience
Omnipresence

Who's the true Living Tribunal?

Where did you hear about him?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who's the true Living Tribunal?

Where did you hear about him?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who's the true Living Tribunal?

Where did you hear about him?
After he sniffed in the stripe of "flour" that he found on the table ...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
After he sniffed in the stripe of "flour" that he found on the table ...

Yea,

I sometimes advise people not to get high before loggin on.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
After he sniffed in the stripe of "flour" that he found on the table ... hoover

Originally posted by Galan007
hoover

- FO!!

Who cares, Superman Prime takes both of these cosmic clowns down when his new series comes out!

Originally posted by masterbruce
Who cares, Superman Prime takes both of these cosmic clowns down when his new series comes out!




hoover

Spectre.

Originally posted by Galan007





hoover

oh go ahead, mock me. Galan, the greatest hater of Superman Prime!!!

Originally posted by masterbruce
Who cares, Superman Prime takes both of these cosmic clowns down when his new series comes out!
n00b3

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
n00b3

yeah wait till we learn more about Prime, then you guys will be eating crow.

Originally posted by masterbruce
you guys will be eating crow.

Where are you from?

Originally posted by masterbruce
oh go ahead, mock me. Galan, the greatest hater of Superman Prime!!! I don't "hate" SMP at all...

I simply would never make such a ridiculous claim that SMP is, or will be > Spectre or LT.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Where are you from?
Asylum?

Hey,

does anyone know if it's true that Cronos of DC knocked down the gates of Heaven and then touched the Presence with the Godwave?

Spectre

Hey,

does anyone know if it's true that Cronos of DC knocked down the gates of Heaven and then touched the Presence with the Godwave?
where did u hear this

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey,

does anyone know if it's true that Cronos of DC knocked down the gates of Heaven and then touched the Presence with the Godwave? According to wiki, he felt the power of the Presence, gained complete clarity and was humbled and seemingly just quit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympian_Gods_%28comics%29


I don't read Wonder Woman's solo title often to confirm this though and wiki's not always accurate in its interpretation of events.

LT.

Spectre is merely Wrath. LT is "Judgement."

Originally posted by lionking
LT.

Spectre is merely Wrath. LT is "Judgement."

And you think Judgement supercedes the WRATH of God? are you kiddin? The Spectre merged is bascially God. ABove the LT.

lollol

Originally posted by lionking
LT.

Spectre is merely Wrath. LT is "Judgement."

This is a merged so it implies "judegment". Toe to toe this would be stalemate.

But because of the merge Spectre is the clear winner. You cannot a peace the wrath by actions and violance. Only Divine intervention could stop The Spectre.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Who cares, Superman Prime takes both of these cosmic clowns down when his new series comes out!
Dude, Superman Prime couldent even keep Blue Beatles universe from colapsing.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
This is a merged so it implies "judegment". Toe to toe this would be stalemate.

But because of the merge Spectre is the clear winner. You cannot a peace the wrath by actions and violance. Only Divine intervention could stop The Spectre.
Are you claiming that a hostless Spectre, which had trouble with captain Marvel would equal the Living Tribunal?!

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Dude, Superman Prime couldent even keep Blue Beatles universe from colapsing. That was Atom 1M's Universe actually.....

And to be fair, SMP didn't have a chance to save that Universe.

Originally posted by Juntai
According to wiki, he felt the power of the Presence, gained complete clarity and was humbled and seemingly just quit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympian_Gods_%28comics%29
Not anymore ...
Seriously you guys should stop using wikipeda--it's not a realible source, he merged with the source.

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Atom 1M's Universe actually.....

And to be fair, SMP didn't have a chance to save that Universe.
But the Living Tribunal would, and even if the Tribunal was too late he could just remake it from the scratch, wouldent be that hard no?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Not anymore ...
Seriously you guys should stop using wikipeda--it's not a realible source, he merged with the source. Juntai wasn't commenting on Spectre, he was commenting on a question Mr M asked.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But the Living Tribunal would, and even if the Tribunal was too late he could just remake it from the scratch, wouldent be that hard no? Definitely.

I'm not comparing them in the slightest..... I was just correcting what you previously said.

And they claim that this forum is Marvel biased ...
According to the poll, the second most powerful being in DC would defeat the second most powerful beingf in Marvel.

This forum is hugely Marvel biased....


There has just been a few more DC fans in this thread than Marvel fans lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
This forum is hugely Marvel biased....


There has just been a few more DC fans in this thread than Marvel fans lol.

You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT.

Originally posted by masterbruce
You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT.



Even though we know next to nothing about him . . .

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And they claim that this forum is Marvel biased ...
According to the poll, the second most powerful being in DC would defeat the second most powerful beingf in Marvel.

lol even the mods have stated this forum is hugely marvel biased.

Originally posted by masterbruce
You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT. Voting for a more powerful character makes you bias?

I better stop voting for Superman against Wolverine then...

Originally posted by masterbruce
You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT. I'm "Marvel biased"?

I actually prefer DC comics in most cases....




BTW, saying Superman Prime gets his ass handed to him by a full-potential Galactus does not make me "Marvel biased". doped

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And they claim that this forum is Marvel biased ...
According to the poll, the second most powerful being in DC would defeat the second most powerful beingf in Marvel. Because it's specificallly powered up version.
The version of Spectre you want us to debate is Spectre while he's experiencing what it is like to be God. Weilding the power of all creation. It also gave him complete omniscience as he was the sum of creation.

Originally posted by masterbruce
You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT.

blowupblowupblowup

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who's the true Living Tribunal?

Where did you hear about him?

Did someone call my name? Its Friday.

Originally posted by Board Walker
lol even the mods have stated this forum is hugely marvel biased.
Well it's still funny though, it seems to be more voting than actually debating, think about what features does Spectre have when merging with the source?
--He was one with reality, but so is Multi-Eternity, and not even it can compare to the Living Tribunal.
So feature-wise the Living Tribunal takes this, unless the Source have features surpassing the Living Tribunal's.
The Source and Spectre are two aspect's of God.
The Living Tribunal is the only, the only one that works for him, aspect of the Supreme being.

Originally posted by masterbruce
You are very marvel biased.

You vote against Superman Prime when he's pitted against any Marvel character like Phoenix, Galactus, or even the LT.
Look, we know that he couldent save Atom 1M's universe from colapsing.
That is a certain limit.
His greatest feature was when he destroyed Solaris.
So his powers are somewhere between Solaris and Holding a universe together.
Phoenix would certainly crush him, I mean the power of M'kraan is not to mess with it contains more power than a normal universe does, in fact it is a universe filled with neutron stars, which basicly means a universe full of energy.
Galactus however was a good choise, mainly because Superman Prime was able to destroy Solaris with the Green Lantern ring, and that wouldent work of Galactus that's for sure.

So it seems to be a tie between stalemate and victory for the Spectre, any more votes?

Living Tribunal vs the Spectre is a Stalemate
Living Tribunal vs Spectre empowered by the Source is a stomp.

Originally posted by hush
Living Tribunal vs the Spectre is a Stalemate
Living Tribunal vs Spectre empowered by the Source is a stomp.
You're aware of that the Spectre have had a hard time with captain Marvel, I would hardly call a hostless Spectre to be on the Living Tribunal's level.
Spectre alone could not stop the Anti-Monitor, he had to have five of the most powerful wizards throughout the Multiverse to do so, and he barely succeded.
One Multiverse for the Living Tribunal would be a snap away.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Well it's still funny though, it seems to be more voting than actually debating, think about what features does Spectre have when merging with the source?
--He was one with reality, but so is Multi-Eternity, and not even it can compare to the Living Tribunal.
So feature-wise the Living Tribunal takes this, unless the Source have features surpassing the Living Tribunal's.
The Source and Spectre are two aspect's of God.
The Living Tribunal is the only, the only one that works for him, aspect of the Supreme being.

it might be people are weary of posting there opinons,they might be people that you would never guess would vote one way or another
and they might get abused or treated wrong
i voted spectre empowered

i voted spectre empowered
Based on what?

Spectre wins this.

Originally posted by Skeets
Visits Darkseid and enters the Source wall and experiences how it feels to be God
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7807/spectre19975812xw6.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8113/spectre19975813ve5.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9653/spectre19975814aq8.jpg
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/848/spectre19975815df8.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7062/spectre19975816md3.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2379/spectre19975817xx6.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5716/spectre19975818iu9.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3359/spectre19975819oc9.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9536/spectre19975820ya3.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2619/spectre19975821om5.jpg

respect threads and my view of what is a empowered spectre

Originally posted by Skeets
Spectre wins this.
The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet was also refered to as God.
There is a differance between God and the Supreme being.

Originally posted by Juntai
Because it's specificallly powered up version.
The version of Spectre you want us to debate is Spectre while he's experiencing what it is like to be God. Weilding the power of all creation. It also gave him complete omniscience as he was the sum of creation.

But honestly Jun, when you read this scan:




"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for he is its Heart,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening,

to allow TWO Brothers to assume their pre-destined Roles,

as Architects of New Realities ...

and ONLY this Judge knows why"





Sounds pretty much like "God" to me ... wielding the power of Creation.



Just this line,


"ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"


Says it all.


"ALPHA & OMEGA" = "God" (the Beginning & the End) if I'm not mistaken.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Well it's still funny though, it seems to be more voting than actually debating, think about what features does Spectre have when merging with the source?
--He was one with reality, but so is Multi-Eternity, and not even it can compare to the Living Tribunal.
So feature-wise the Living Tribunal takes this, unless the Source have features surpassing the Living Tribunal's.
The Source and Spectre are two aspect's of God.
The Living Tribunal is the only, the only one that works for him, aspect of the Supreme being.

That is your opinion that Multi Eternity does not compare to LT.

As of right now going by the Marvel company statemens, the LT bio, and the HOTI saga, LT was defeated by the vast power of one complete absorbed universe.

Argue it all you want, the scans and marvel statements dont lie.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet was also refered to as God.
There is a differance between God and the Supreme being.
Actually no.That's Thanos or Warlock calling them selves "GOD"
The Source is the power of creation a part of GOD.
Unlike the wielders of the Gauntlet Spectre actually knows who "GOD" is.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You're aware of that the Spectre have had a hard time with captain Marvel, I would hardly call a hostless Spectre to be on the Living Tribunal's level.
Spectre alone could not stop the Anti-Monitor, he had to have five of the most powerful wizards throughout the Multiverse to do so, and he barely succeded.
One Multiverse for the Living Tribunal would be a snap away.

he wus jobing to the Anti-Monitor. and a hostless Spectre is a DEPowerd Spectre.

Originally posted by Skeets
Actually no.That's Thanos or Warlock calling them selves "GOD"
The Source is the power of creation a part of GOD.
Unlike the wielders of the Gauntlet Spectre actually knows who "GOD" is.
The Living Tribunal is a part of the Supreme being, it was created for one sole purpose to mantain the balance in the Omniverse.
And the Source is not anything compared to the Presence itself, It's like saying Michael has God's power, does this mean he can stalemate the Presence?

Originally posted by Board Walker
That is your opinion that Multi Eternity does not compare to LT.

As of right now going by the Marvel company statemens, the LT bio, and the HOTI saga, LT was defeated by the vast power of one complete absorbed universe.

Argue it all you want, the scans and marvel statements dont lie.
The Living Tribunal has only one superior, how many times do you have to read that before understanding that?
He is second only to the supreme, which means, no power with an exception of the One-Above-All's can touch him.

Are you claiming that the supreme power isnt vast?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal is a part of the Supreme being, it was created for one sole purpose to mantain the balance in the Omniverse.
And the Source is not anything compared to the Presence itself, It's like saying Michael has God's power, does this mean he can stalemate the Presence?
The Spectre is a part of the Supreme being aswell.
Why are you bringing up the Presence's power when Talking about the LT?
The Spectre wins this.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal has only one superior, how many times do you have to read that before understanding that?
He is second only to the supreme, which means, no power with an exception of the One-Above-All's can touch him.

Are you claiming that the supreme power isnt vast?
The same can be said about the Spectre.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal has only one superior, how many times do you have to read that before understanding that?
He is second only to the supreme, which means, no power with an exception of the One-Above-All's can touch him.

Are you claiming that the supreme power isnt vast?

It doesn't matter if the LT only has one superior, that means nothing about his level of power.

Title and purpose do not equate to level of power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But honestly Jun, when you read this scan:




"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for he is its Heart,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening,

to allow TWO Brothers to assume their pre-destined Roles,

as Architects of New Realities ...

and ONLY this Judge knows why"





Sounds pretty much like "God" to me ... wielding the power of Creation.



Just this line,


"ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"


Says it all.


"ALPHA & OMEGA" = "God" (the Beginning & the End) if I'm not mistaken.

Completely your subjective opinion, alpha and omega could be referencing to a myriad of things, it could simply being the begining and end of a life, or of a destiny as said, to conclude it is god is speculation entirely on your part.

Originally posted by Skeets

The same can be said about the Spectre.

Actually no it can't.

Spectre <<< Source <<< Presence

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually no it can't.

Spectre <<< Source <<< Presence
The Spectre is the Logoz.The Logoz is just as much part of the Presence as the Source is.

Originally posted by Skeets
The Spectre is a part of the Supreme being aswell.
Why are you bringing up the Presence's power when Talking about the LT?
The Spectre wins this.
Yet Spectre have had difficulities, which the Living Tribunal would surpass.
Mr. Mxyztplk have defeated the Spectre a couple of times, the Anti-Life Equation was trillion of times more powerful than Mr. Mxyztplk, yet it is infernior to the Infninity Gauntlet, which the Living Tribunal had total control of.


Spectre being second only to the Supreme in DC?
So I guess he's above the source as well, Michael wouldent be a problem either huh, what about Mr. Mxyztplk?

Originally posted by Board Walker
Completely your subjective opinion, alpha and omega could be referencing to a myriad of things, it could simply being the begining and end of a life, or of a destiny as said, to conclude it is god is speculation entirely on your part.
Alpha is the first letter in the (ancient-) Greek alphabet and Omega is the last one.
When putted together it means the beining and the end.

Originally posted by Skeets
The Spectre is the Logoz.The Logoz is just as much part of the Presence as the Source is.

Still the Ultimator, Myx, Batmite, Michael etc

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Look, we know that he couldent save Atom 1M's universe from colapsing.
That is a certain limit.
His greatest feature was when he destroyed Solaris.
So his powers are somewhere between Solaris and Holding a universe together.
Phoenix would certainly crush him, I mean the power of M'kraan is not to mess with it contains more power than a normal universe does, in fact it is a universe filled with neutron stars, which basicly means a universe full of energy.
Galactus however was a good choise, mainly because Superman Prime was able to destroy Solaris with the Green Lantern ring, and that wouldent work of Galactus that's for sure.

Good to see that he couldn't save Atoms Universe, though he said "it happened so fast even I couldn't save it", Spectre and LT had their low showings too, though I wouldn't say this was a low showing of SMP, Spectre and LT might have failed too .
This however doesn't mean that his powers are limited by the Universe, not only because he resides in another Universe, not the one he couldn't save BTW, though it's implied if it went a bit slower he would be successfull. Anyway, there is no way to define SMP power till we see more feats, till then everyone can have his opinion, mine is SMP > LT and Spectre.

As for the thread, LT would stalemate the Spectre, but the Spectre merged with the Source would be too much I guess .

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yet Spectre have had difficulities, which the Living Tribunal would surpass.
Mr. Mxyztplk have defeated the Spectre a couple of times, the Anti-Life Equation was trillion of times more powerful than Mr. Mxyztplk, yet it is infernior to the Infninity Gauntlet, which the Living Tribunal had total control of.
And the Anti-life Equation is weaker than the infinity Gauntlet based on what?And it being a trillion times more powerful than Mxy,where are you getting this from?
Spectre has bad showings here and there but let me assure you that,that wasn't Spectre "Prime" there's a Spectre in every plain of existence doing it's job.Besides you can't take Any book with MXY in it too serious.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

Spectre being second only to the Supreme in DC?
So I guess he's above the source as well, Michael wouldent be a problem either huh, what about Mr. Mxyztplk?
Spectre tapping into the Logoz is leagues above Michael.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Still the Ultimator, Myx, Batmite, Michael etc
What are you talking about? get lost the big boys are talking.
The Spectre itself is an equal aspect of God. Logoz/Presence/Source/Word

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Good to see that he couldn't save Atoms Universe, though he said "it happened so fast even I couldn't save it", Spectre and LT had their low showings too, though I wouldn't say this was a low showing of SMP, Spectre and LT might have failed too .
I am not sure about Spectre, but the Living Tribunal basicly thinks something and it happends, and time is beneath him, no matter how fast it'd happend, he could've stopped it. And even if he couldent, he would be able to remake the universe from scratch with a single thought.


Superman is a mere kryptonian which has sleept in the sun for 15 millennias, he couldent even bring back Lois Lane back alone, he needed help with that.
So he cannot give life, the Living Tribunal can, and I think the Spectre can do it as well.


On what basis is Spectre alone equal to the Living Tribunal?

LT needs a respect thread he gets no respect here just like huc spectre gets moved by batman so could cap, daredevi, and spidey move LT?

Originally posted by Skeets
And the Anti-life Equation is weaker than the infinity Gauntlet based on what?And it being a trillion times more powerful than Mxy,where are you getting this from?
Nvr. posted a scan a couple of months back when we debated in the Infinity Gauntlet versus the Anti-Life Equation thread, you should be able to find it in the search function.


So normaly Spectre would defeat the imp's, the archangel's and so forth?


Yes, I am aware of that, but he's not above the Presence, therefore also beneath the One-Above-All, and the Living Tribunal is second only to the One-Above-All, as stated the Living Tribunal is the impulse of life throughout all creation as well.

If I would make a counterpart list I would being from the top, and go down.
DC is not greater powerwise than Marvel somehow, neither is it vice versa.


Are you claiming that the Spectre equal's all the other aspect's of the Presence?

Originally posted by xmeat
LT needs a respect thread he gets no respect here just like huc spectre gets moved by batman so could cap, daredevi, and spidey move LT?
go to CBR LT get's respect all the time at CBR.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Nvr. posted a scan a couple of months back when we debated in the Infinity Gauntlet versus the Anti-Life Equation thread, you should be able to find it in the search function.


So normaly Spectre would defeat the imp's, the archangel's and so forth?
Imps yes,Just look at what happened to Mxy during DOV,Mxy was left powerless.Archangels yes,Asmodel is one Spectre has punked(he might of not been at his best)Michael is one Spectre can't exactly touch as he resides in Heaven.Spectre isn't exactly allowed in Heaven so he'll get curb stomped by Michael every single time.It's not because Spectre doesn't have the power,it's more that the Presence doesn't let him or allow it.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

Yes, I am aware of that, but he's not above the Presence, therefore also beneath the One-Above-All, and the Living Tribunal is second only to the One-Above-All, as stated the Living Tribunal is the impulse of life throughout all creation as well.
No one is above the Presence but the Spectre is an equal part of it,Lt isn't an actual part of TOAA.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

If I would make a counterpart list I would being from the top, and go down.
DC is not greater powerwise than Marvel somehow, neither is it vice versa.


Are you claiming that the Spectre equal's all the other aspect's of the Presence?
Yes,The Logoz is an equal part of God,like the source.
Spectre is the Logoz,Hal Jordan has tapped into it's power throughput Spectre V4.

Originally posted by Skeets
Imps yes,Just look at what happened to Mxy during DOV,Mxy was left powerless.Archangels yes,Asmodel is one Spectre has punked(he might of not been at his best)Michael is one Spectre can't exactly touch as he resides in Heaven.Spectre isn't exactly allowed in Heaven so he'll get curb stomped by Michael every single time.It's not because Spectre doesn't have the power,it's more that the Presence doesn't let him or allow it.


No one is above the Presence but the Spectre is an equal part of it,Lt isn't an actual part of TOAA.

Yes,The Logoz is an equal part of God,like the source.
Spectre is the Logoz,Hal Jordan has tapped into it's power throughput Spectre V4.
I'll ask you once more, and I want a direct clear answer.
Do you state that the Presence, the Source, the Logoz and the Spectre are all equals?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I'll ask you once more, and I want a direct clear answer.
Do you state that the Presence, the Source, the Logoz and the Spectre are all equals?
The Spectre is the Logoz.Yes,the Logoz is an equal part of the presence.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9478/thespectrev41121lu6.jpg

Originally posted by Skeets
The Spectre is the Logoz.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9478/thespectrev41121lu6.jpg
Not clear enough.

Originally posted by Skeets
The Spectre is the Logoz.Yes,the Logoz is an equal part of the presence.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9478/thespectrev41121lu6.jpg
Let me refrase that:
I'll ask you once more, and I want a direct clear answer.
Do you state that the Presence, the Source and the Spectre are all equals?

Originally posted by Validus
Not clear enough.
Who asked you?ermm
Meh,I got plenty of scans I'll find something specific.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let me refrase that:
I'll ask you once more, and I want a direct clear answer.
Do you state that the Presence, the Source and the Spectre are all equals?
Now you're just twisting words around.
The Presence is Supreme nothing is equal to it.
The Logoz(Spectre) is an equal part of the supreme being.
Edit:Now I'm getting a little confused.
Look the Presence isn't the Supreme being it's an aspect of it,along with the Logoz,the source,and the word.There..

Originally posted by Board Walker
Completely your subjective opinion, alpha and omega could be referencing to a myriad of things, it could simply being the begining and end of a life, or of a destiny as said, to conclude it is god is speculation entirely on your part.

Riiiiight.


It just so happens to be that Two tiny beings (Two MEGAVERSES) happen to be PART of that Destiny.

Each Megaverse = a Collection of Multiverses, but yea,

they probably meant just "A Life" or "A Destiny" ... dontgetit




"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for he is its Heart,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening,

to allow TWO Brothers to assume their pre-destined Roles,

as Architects of New Realities ...

and ONLY this Judge knows why"




GO look up the meaning of Alpha & Omaga ... then come back.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I am not sure about Spectre, but the Living Tribunal basicly thinks something and it happends, and time is beneath him, no matter how fast it'd happend, he could've stopped it. And even if he couldent, he would be able to remake the universe from scratch with a single thought.


Superman is a mere kryptonian which has sleept in the sun for 15 millennias, he couldent even bring back Lois Lane back alone, he needed help with that.
So he cannot give life, the Living Tribunal can, and I think the Spectre can do it as well.


On what basis is Spectre alone equal to the Living Tribunal?

Wasn't LT the one who was bested by Protege? He couldn't think fast enough I guess or maye he is an creator not a fighter, anyway, PIS or not low showings are common even among LT and Spectre. There is still a lot of time to rectonn such things I guess .
I'm sure I don't know as much about LT as you do but did he every remake an Universe from scratch with a single though, I mean remake not create.

BTW I don't know if death works in both universes in the same way, means, when Parallax offered Superman to bring everything back that has died, Krypton and all it's inhabitants, Superman refused because it would be an violation of life, because Parallax would be the God of such an Universe.
Now, Krypton was brought back from the death, like Lois Lane with the help of/or by SMP, is this too a violation or is it an act of Love, I can't say for sure but I guess there is a difference between choosing between death and life for those whom you love, and who love you and between the death and life of people you can't be responsible for. If an Universe is destroyed and remade, like with the HOTU, because the God of this company wanted it this way, could LT decide otherwise? If an Universe dies, and TOAA wants it this way, would LT be able to bring it back? I guess not, we don't know what TOAA or the Presence think so we don't know why some are brought back and others not, so we can't say SMP should bring it back.
I also think that there is a difference between creating and fighting, Spiderman might be more clever then the Hulk but he would loose in a fight. :banana:

Spectre = LT, the only basis we have is the DC vs MArvel Crossover.

BTW Brothers > LT&Spectre.

"he sits at the CENTER of ALL things,

feeling the flow of countless Realities,

their FATE irrevocably determined through the judgment,

rendered by HIS Three Faces"

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9741/ltrules2lu3.th.jpg

"Two SIBLINGS whom the Tribunal has a place for in HIS great scheme of things"




Two MEGAVERSES are Two action figures in his Hand.


yawn

Originally posted by Mr Master
Riiiiight.


It just so happens to be that Two tiny beings (Two MEGAVERSES) happen to be PART of that Destiny.

Each Megaverse = a Collection of Multiverses, but yea,

they probably meant just "A Life" or "A Destiny" ... dontgetit




"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for he is its Heart,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,

a Destiny SPUN by HIS mighty Hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening,

to allow TWO Brothers to assume their pre-destined Roles,

as Architects of New Realities ...

and ONLY this Judge knows why"




GO look up the meaning of Alpha & Omaga ... then come back.
I bet LT has worked one hell of an ass groove into that chair.

But Spectre have lost, and have had a lot of though battles, while he fights, the Living Tribunal blinks out.
Nothing can knockback the Living Tribunal or make him blink, the Spectre however.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9311/2mz9le9.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4572/1qb1iq2.jpg

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But Spectre have lost, and have had a lot of though battles, while he fights, the Living Tribunal blinks out.
Nothing can knockback the Living Tribunal or make him blink, the Spectre however.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9311/2mz9le9.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4572/1qb1iq2.jpg
You think Batman wouldn't lay the beat down on LT?
Seriously though.that's just retarded.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Wasn't LT the one who was bested by Protege? He couldn't think fast enough I guess or maye he is an creator not a fighter, anyway, PIS or not low showings are common even among LT and Spectre. There is still a lot of time to rectonn such things I guess .
I'm sure I don't know as much about LT as you do but did he every remake an Universe from scratch with a single though, I mean remake not create.
Protege didn't do anything to the Living Tribunal, nor did it try to do anything. Scathan just didn't aprove and locked Protege in a cube from where he couldent escape, he never bestted the Living Tribunal.


You actually went there, and compared Superman Prime to the respective Supreme being's of each company?


#1 Spectre and the Living Tribunal was never showed to be equal, all that was shown was that they were chanceless against the Brothers, Batman and captain America also float arounf there trying to stop the Brothers, does that mean that they equalled the Living Tribnal and Spectre?--Obviously not.

#2 There was never stated if Spectre had any host or not, nor was it proven.

Originally posted by Validus
I bet LT has worked one hell of an ass groove into that chair.

Seems to be a stalemate between draw and Spectre, can anyone settle this?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Seems to be a stalemate between draw and Spectre, can anyone settle this?

LT=Spectre

The Spectre fully powered on his own is a match for the LT. Merged with the source, another even more powerful aspect of the presence and The LT goes down hard.

"Living Tribunal vs Spectre merged with the Source"

Just a thought. But I need a little bit more information about the Source itself and what happened in the scan where Spectre was one with the Source. Is the Source pretty much God Himself or from God Himself? Is it analogous to his divine power from which everything springs? The Source obviously speaks to Spectre in those scan, so at the least it is sentient. If that is so, it appears to me that Spectre then literally became one with everything with God's/Presence's permission. The captions certainly indicate he is not only attuned with every single thing in existence, but he is indeed every single part of existence. He is every small particle to the largest universe(s).

If anything, that sounds like how some people have interpreted Thanos with THOTU. Whether you disagree that Jim Starlin had only one universe in mind or the multiverse, for argument's sake; just accept the proposition that THOTU was multiversal. When he did, Thanos was not exerting omnipotent external control, but actually became everything. The scope of what happened to the Spectre appears analogous to me. The analogy appears coherent, unless there is an aspect of the Source I'm not aware of. If that's the case, Spectre merged with the Source would probably blink the Living Tribunal away like Thanos did with THOTU.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Spectre fully powered on his own is a match for the LT. Merged with the source, another even more powerful aspect of the presence and The LT goes down hard.
Don't make me repost the picture where Batman kick Spectre's ass.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Don't make me repost the picture where Batman kick Spectre's ass.
the Batman Spectre fight is SMVSFL.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Don't make me repost the picture where Batman kick Spectre's ass.
Get serious,Spectre can't be hurt physically unless he wills it.
He's a ghost for crying out loud!

Originally posted by Skeets
Get serious,Spectre can't be hurt physically unless he wills it.
He's a ghost for crying out loud!
There is an other picture where captain Marvel gives Spectre a run for his money.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
There is an other picture where captain Marvel gives Spectre a run for his money.
While being powered up by every mystic in the damn universe!
And that still wasn't enough.Check the respect thread I posted the whole fight.
After that they ran into each other again Spectre just said Shazam! and Capt.Marvel was tuned back into billy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Living Tribunal vs Spectre merged with the Source"

Just a thought. But I need a little bit more information about the Source itself and what happened in the scan where Spectre was one with the Source. Is the Source pretty much God Himself or from God Himself? Is it analogous to his divine power from which everything springs? The Source obviously speaks to Spectre in those scan, so at the least it is sentient. If that is so, it appears to me that Spectre then literally became one with everything with God's/Presence's permission. The captions certainly indicate he is not only attuned with every single thing in existence, but he is indeed every single part of existence. He is every small particle to the largest universe(s).

If anything, that sounds like how some people have interpreted Thanos with THOTU. Whether you disagree that Jim Starlin had only one universe in mind or the multiverse, for argument's sake; just accept the proposition that THOTU was multiversal. When he did, Thanos was not exerting omnipotent external control, but actually became everything. The scope of what happened to the Spectre appears analogous to me. The analogy appears coherent, unless there is an aspect of the Source I'm not aware of. If that's the case, Spectre merged with the Source would probably blink the Living Tribunal away like Thanos did with THOTU.
The Living Tribunal is one with all creation, the entire Omniverse.
He is the impulse of life through it, he's the begining, he's the end.
There's nothing he cannot do, for as long as the One-Above-All allowes it.
He can smite the Omniverse, he can recreate it from scratch, he can rewind and reverse time at will, all this with no effort.

You cannot outfeat him, unless you have the Supreme beings power.

The Source is not Presence himself, and it's not the power of the Supreme like the Heart of Infinite was.

And the Living Tribunal is not flawed like Spectre hosted by the Source was, Spectre seemed lost.

Second to the supreme in Marvel equals second to the supreme in DC I'd say.

Originally posted by Skeets
While being powered up by every mystic in the damn universe!
And that still wasn't enough.Check the respect thread I posted the whole fight.
After that they ran into each other again Spectre just said Shazam! and Capt.Marvel was tuned back into billy.
But he still got spank.
Look what Adam and the Infinity Gauntlet did to Eternity ...

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8927/ig3ir9pu7.th.jpg

And again ...

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5358/we1fd7kx1.th.jpg

It seems that busting the embodiment of the entire universe is getting to become a hobby.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6661/ltrulesig10cfeu9.th.jpg

Did he have trouble with the power of a universe?
So Adam with the Gauntlet >> Spectre?
Hm ...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But he still got spank.
Look what Adam and the Infinity Gauntlet did to Eternity ...

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8927/ig3ir9pu7.th.jpg

And again ...

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5358/we1fd7kx1.th.jpg

It seems that busting the embodiment of the entire universe is getting to become a hobby.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6661/ltrulesig10cfeu9.th.jpg

Did he have trouble with the power of a universe?
So Adam with the Gauntlet >> Spectre?
Hm ...
*sigh* A host-less Spectre is nowhere near as strong as he would be with a host.
By the end of DOV he was so powerful that GOD himself had to deal with him.Again that's a host-less Spectre.

Spectre is surely more poweerful than the Gaunlet.

Originally posted by Skeets
*sigh* A host-less Spectre is nowhere near as strong as he would be with a host.
By the end of DOV he was so powerful that GOD himself had to deal with him.Again that's a host-less Spectre.

Spectre is surely more poweerful than the Gaunlet.
Isnt Day of Vengence Vertigo?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Isnt Day of Vengence Vertigo?
No,it's in DC continuity,it all happened during infinite crisis.

Originally posted by Skeets
No,it's in DC continuity,it all happened during infinite crisis.
Could you post some scans where the Presence itself fights Spectre?
--It isnt the one where he eats Michael, no?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Could you post some scans where the Presence itself fights Spectre?
--It isnt the one where he eats Michael, no?
Nah,they don't actually fight.God just throws him into his new host.

Originally posted by Skeets
Nah,they don't actually fight.God just throws him into his new host.
You sure make it sound like he did, and that nothing else could ever come close to him, nah?--fanboi.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You sure make it sound like he did, and that nothing else could ever come close to him, nah?--fanboi.
I fail to see how my choice of words give off the impression that the Presence actually "fights" the Spectre.I simply said that the Presence it's self had to deal with him.

Well is you actually read the books you would know.
Seems like you get all your info from specific scans,not actual reading..
Nabu himself states that only Spectre's master(GOD) can stop his rampage.

And calling me a "fanboi" good job..

Originally posted by Skeets
I fail to see how my choice of words give off the impression that the Presence actually "fights" the Spectre.I simply said that the Presence it's self had to deal with him.

Well is you actually read the books you would know.
Seems like you get all your info from specific scans,not actual reading..
Nabu himself states that only Spectre's master(GOD) can stop his rampage.

And calling me a "fanboi" good job..

If you don't want to be called a fanboi stop speaking in favour of DC, switch to the Marvel side and you have nothing to fear angel

Spectre merged with the Source wins. It was The Source that took out the Anti-Monitor in the Crisis.

Spectre smacks away LT like a nutsack.

Originally posted by bigbran
Spectre smacks away LT like a nutsack.

Interesting imagery there . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Interesting imagery there . . . Indeed...

So basicly what you're saying is that:
Marvel - TOAA <<< DC - Presence
??

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So basicly what you're saying is that:
Marvel - TOAA <<< DC - Presence
?? Umm... LT really has nothing to do with God's power...

Originally posted by bigbran
Umm... LT really has nothing to do with God's power...
Again ...
Marvel without TOAA <<<< DC without Presence?
Because appearently DC has a lot of "God"-aspect and powered by God character ... No?
Lucifer Michael >> LT
Michael >> LT
Spectre Logoz >> LT
Spectre Source >> LT
Yahweh >> LT
Source >> LT
Elaine Michael >> LT

And all those above are actually weaker than the Presence itself ... Hm ...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But he still got spank.
Look what Adam and the Infinity Gauntlet did to Eternity ...

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8927/ig3ir9pu7.th.jpg

And again ...

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5358/we1fd7kx1.th.jpg

It seems that busting the embodiment of the entire universe is getting to become a hobby.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6661/ltrulesig10cfeu9.th.jpg

Did he have trouble with the power of a universe?
So Adam with the Gauntlet >> Spectre?
Hm ... You know damn well DOV hostless Spectre is nowhere near the power of Corrigan and The Wrath merged with the power of creation itself.

And you know Warlock beating Eternity back, is nothing like fighting Spectre with the Source.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again ...
Marvel without TOAA <<<< DC without Presence?
Because appearently DC has a lot of "God"-aspect and powered by God character ... No?
Lucifer Michael >> LT
Michael >> LT
Spectre Logoz >> LT
Spectre Source >> LT
Yahweh >> LT
Source >> LT
Elaine Michael >> LT

And all those above are actually weaker than the Presence itself ... Hm ...
Ah but I was expecting someone to clear this up for me ...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again ...
Marvel without TOAA <<<< DC without Presence?
Because appearently DC has a lot of "God"-aspect and powered by God character ... No?
Lucifer Michael >> LT
Michael >> LT
Spectre Logoz >> LT
Spectre Source >> LT
Yahweh >> LT
Source >> LT
Elaine Michael >> LT

And all those above are actually weaker than the Presence itself ... Hm ... Well... when you put it like that...

Also, I think it has to do with all the items in Marvel, that levels the playing field... otherwise... yes... DC would>>Marvel in a way...

Originally posted by bigbran
Well... when you put it like that...

Also, I think it has to do with all the items in Marvel, that levels the playing field... otherwise... yes... DC would>>Marvel in a way...
All the items?
--Only one surpasses the Living tribunal, and that's the Heart.

Yet, DC characters havent done more on panel, they simply are more powerful because their a part of God. In a way or an other?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
All the items?
--Only one surpasses the Living tribunal, and that's the Heart.

Yet, DC characters havent done more on panel, they simply are moe powerful because their a part of God. In a way or an other. And that one is hundreds of times more powerful than LT...

Also, PR-Beyonder...

Assuming they are even in terms of power in this thread, which I fully believe is not the case.... but even so...

Tribunal's fighting skills is 1 according to Marvel's system.

Where would you rank the Wrath of God, who kills across infinite planes of reality each day in terms of fighting skill?

Originally posted by bigbran
And that one is hundreds of times more powerful than LT...

Also, PR-Beyonder...
PR-Beyonder does not count, that's why he's retconned, his previous actions and statements are no longer valid in canon, I thought you knew that.
So if I'd to make a conter-part list of Marvel and DC, DC would've a lot of more powerful character that the Marvel once cannot even come close to, hm, an hour ago I thought this forum really was Marvel biased, perhaps I was wrong.

Originally posted by Juntai
Assuming they are even in terms of power in this thread, which I fully believe is not the case.... but even so...

Tribunal's fighting skills is 1 according to Marvel's system.

Where would you rank the Wrath of God, who kills across infinite planes of reality each day in terms of fighting skill?
Below Batman of course!

Originally posted by Juntai
Assuming they are even in terms of power in this thread, which I fully believe is not the case.... but even so...

Tribunal's fighting skills is 1 according to Marvel's system.

Where would you rank the Wrath of God, who kills across infinite planes of reality each day in terms of fighting skill?
Fighting skills arent a factor really, even the celestial's can lift at the CL 5000 -class, and they have to fighting skills, mainly because they don't need any, they never use their muscles, but their mind.
With it they can grasp abstract things and tear them apart.

I mean Lucifer with Michael's power havent really done more on panel than the Ultimate Nullifier, it did destroy and recreate the Multiverse.
So either:
DC >> Marvel
or
TOAA >> Presence

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Fighting skills arent a factor really, even the celestial's can lift at the CL 5000 -class, and they have to fighting skills, mainly because they don't need any, they never use their muscles, but their mind.
With it they can grasp abstract things and tear them apart. Of course it would. Spectre isn't on a lesser level. He's not something LT could snap away. It would become a fight, and Spectre fights issue to issue, while Tribunal prints his cheeks in his chair. And that's assuming they are on equal footing powerwise, but given the versions of the characters, that doesn't seem to be leading towards the Tribunal either.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I mean Lucifer with Michael's power havent really done more on panel than the Ultimate Nullifier, it did destroy and recreate the Multiverse.
So either:
DC >> Marvel
or
TOAA >> Presence Creating, and recreating something that was already are two very different things.
But that inrepretation of Lucifer and Micheal is not part of DC comics. Vertigo is not canon.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
PR-Beyonder does not count, that's why he's retconned, his previous actions and statements are no longer valid in canon, I thought you knew that.
So if I'd to make a conter-part list of Marvel and DC, DC would've a lot of more powerful character that the Marvel once cannot even come close to, hm, an hour ago I thought this forum really was Marvel biased, perhaps I was wrong. Oh please, I'm one of the biggest Marvel fans on this site... I just don't let my viewpoint bias my opinions...
Also, just because of ones opinion, that completely sways all the opinions of Hulk single-handidly defeating the enitire JLA, JSA, etc...
Galactus destroying everything in DC...

Hmm... maybe it's bias itself that has swayed your opinion...

Originally posted by Juntai
Creating, and recreating something that was already are two very different things.
But that inrepretation of Lucifer and Micheal is not part of DC comics. Vertigo is not canon. That's like saying Image is non-canon...
The powers in Vertigo are canon, the story just doesn't follow DC...

Also, Micheal created a universe (multiverse, depending on who you ask) out of nothingness...

Originally posted by bigbran

That's like saying Image is non-canon...
The powers in Vertigo are canon, the story just doesn't follow DC...

Also, Micheal created a universe (multiverse, depending on who you ask) out of nothingness... Image actually is a comic verse though, Vertigo isn't. It's just random stories were writers aren't bound by rules or continuity.

Originally posted by Juntai
Image actually is a comic verse though, Vertigo isn't. It's just random stories were writers aren't bound by rules or continuity. The Spawn stories don't follow the Savage Dragon stories...

It seems quite comparible actually.

that is because vertigo is a multiverse of it own just like DCAU they have their own cannon story which is seperate from mainline dc.

Originally posted by bigbran
The Spawn stories don't follow the Savage Dragon stories...

It seems quite comparible actually. Vertigo is not a reality, it's just an imprint. It is only considered an imprint where authors have no boundaries or continuity to follow.

If it were an ongoign continuity, they would have already conflicted many times. Constantine's whole story revovles around hell.
Hell doesn't exist as of the last couple stories in Lucifer.

Originally posted by Juntai
Vertigo is not a reality, it's just an imprint. It is only considered an imprint where authors have no boundaries or continuity to follow.

If it were an ongoign continuity, they would have already conflicted many times. Constantine's whole story revovles around hell.
Hell doesn't exist as of the last couple stories in Lucifer.

Vertigo is a reality. But what your missing is that each story in vertigo is it's own universe. they dont' have to follow the same rules. but at the same time, the writers have the liberty of using certain characters and even vertigo back story. Thus connecting the vertigo imprint into one multiverse. Hell there was multiple multiverses in the lucifer story alone, so vertigo could be considered, a mega verse if you will.

i think vertigo is sometimes canical things like preacher are not but other things are since lucifer morningstar mentions characters like the source and spectre thus he knows about the regular DC universe

PC Superman wins.

Anti-Living Tribunal Vision and Anti-Wrath of God Fart.

I mean...if his snot can destroy solar systems, imagine what his gas must be like.

The only thing I can find reasonable, is Spectre tapped into the logoz equals the Living Tribunal or Spectre merged with the Source.
There is no way the Living Tribunal would have any problems at all with an imp or the Anti-Monitor.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The only thing I can find reasonable, is Spectre tapped into the logoz equals the Living Tribunal or Spectre merged with the Source.
There is no way the Living Tribunal would have any problems at all with an imp or the Anti-Monitor.
What has LT ever done that would equal him not having any trouble with a Multiversal level being like the Anti-Moniter?
Besides his role of course.

Originally posted by Skeets
What has LT ever done that would equal him not having any trouble with a Multiversal level being like the Anti-Moniter?
Besides his role of course.
Nullified the effects of the Infinity Gauntlet, which controlled the energies of the Ultimate Nullifier, which could destroy the Multiverse.

The Anti-Monitor was barely above universal.

Definitely not multiversal.

And shutting down the Infinity Gauntlet?

You do realize ANYONE with the Infinity Gauntlet could beat AM easily, right?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Nullified the effects of the Infinity Gauntlet, which controlled the energies of the Ultimate Nullifier, which could destroy the Multiverse.
That again?
Do you honestly think the writer at the time had the UN as the Multiverse destroyer it is now after Abraxas arc?
Originally posted by Nikkolas
The Anti-Monitor was barely above universal.

Definitely not multiversal.

And shutting down the Infinity Gauntlet?

You do realize ANYONE with the Infinity Gauntlet could beat AM easily, right?
What the hell? did you read crisis on infinite earths?

Apologies.

I was thinking of Marvel's superior multiverse, which contains an infinite number of universes. To be a multiversal level threat in Marvel is obviously different than in DC, where there was a limited number of universes and so a multiveral threat is less so.

Still, IG > A-M. It beat the UN, afterall.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Apologies.

I was thinking of Marvel's superior multiverse, which contains an infinite number of universes. To be a multiversal level threat in Marvel is obviously different than in DC, where there was a limited number of universes and so a multiveral threat is less so.

Still, IG > A-M. It beat the UN, afterall.

Marvel-verse = DC-verse, let's stay with facts not terms. Anti-Monitor destroyed and infinite number of vibrational planes of reality, which in Marvel Terms would be Universe, to destroy an infinite number is illogical, but hey that's comics right. Anyway, the Marvel-verse considers itself an Omniverse, which is basicly made of an infinite number of Universes, the DC-verse back then was split into an infinite number of Universes, since Anti-Monitor destroyed the infinite number except 5 (comic logic at it's best ) he was in Marvel Terms an Omniversal villain. Don't forget, everything he destroyed added to the Antimatter Universes Power and hence to his.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Marvel-verse = DC-verse, let's stay with facts not terms. Anti-Monitor destroyed and infinite number of vibrational planes of reality, which in Marvel Terms would be Universe, to destroy an infinite number is illogical, but hey that's comics right. Anyway, the Marvel-verse considers itself an Omniverse, which is basicly made of an infinite number of Universes, the DC-verse back then was split into an infinite number of Universes, since Anti-Monitor destroyed the infinite number except 5 (comic logic at it's best ) he was in Marvel Terms an Omniversal villain. Don't forget, everything he destroyed added to the Antimatter Universes Power and hence to his.
In the Abraxas arc Reed used the Nullifier to delete Multi-Eternity, and when they talked to him it was confirmed that he was the embodiment of an infinite amount of universe, and beyond.
And the Nullifier recreated it directly after removing everything, from scratch it created an infinite amount of universes in a nano-second.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal is one with all creation, the entire Omniverse.
He is the impulse of life through it, he's the begining, he's the end.
There's nothing he cannot do, for as long as the One-Above-All allowes it.
He can smite the Omniverse, he can recreate it from scratch, he can rewind and reverse time at will, all this with no effort.

You cannot outfeat him, unless you have the Supreme beings power.

The Source is not Presence himself, and it's not the power of the Supreme like the Heart of Infinite was.

And the Living Tribunal is not flawed like Spectre hosted by the Source was, Spectre seemed lost.

Second to the supreme in Marvel equals second to the supreme in DC I'd say. I fail to understand how ythis response of yours defeats the analogy I set forth? The Lviing Tribunal was defeated by a being, who was empowered in a special way. THOTU did not grant Thanos external omnipotence. He virtually became the universe. That is why it is greater than the Infinity Gauntlet. He was not merely attuned to the universe through cosmic awareness or omniscience, he was the universe.

Virtually the same exact thing happens to Spectre. It is even more clear with Spectre merged w/ Source that he indeed is every single particle and even every single universe. So it apepars to me, that Spectre w/ Source is almost an exact analogue of Thanos w/ THOTU, because what happens to both characters is virtually the same.

Therefore, Spectre w/ Source can defeat Living Tribunal. Personally, I don't believe Thanos became one with the multiverse, like others. Leonidas and nvrbeenwthgrl for examples. But it is very clear that Spectre is one with the DC Multiverse since he refers to universes in plural form in the scan.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I fail to understand how ythis response of yours defeats the analogy I set forth? The Lviing Tribunal was defeated by a being, who was empowered in a special way. THOTU did not grant Thanos external omnipotence. He virtually became the universe. That is why it is greater than the Infinity Gauntlet. He was not merely attuned to the universe through cosmic awareness or omniscience, he was the universe.

Virtually the same exact thing happens to Spectre. It is even more clear with Spectre merged w/ Source that he indeed is every single particle and even every single universe. So it apepars to me, that Spectre w/ Source is almost an exact analogue of Thanos w/ THOTU, because what happens to both characters is virtually the same.

Therefore, Spectre w/ Source can defeat Living Tribunal. Personally, I don't believe Thanos became one with the multiverse, like others. Leonidas and nvrbeenwthgrl for examples. But it is very clear that Spectre is one with the DC Multiverse since he refers to universes in plural form in the scan.

Um not me. I do not believe Thanos became one with the multiverse. Airwalker and bigbran made it very clear it was one universe. IT even said the universe many times on panel. I Think mr master is the one who thinks thanos was the multiverse.