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Hal Jordan

vs.

Kenneth Connell (current bearer of Star Brand)

Originally posted by Madvillain
Hal Jordan

vs.

Kenneth Connell (current bearer of Star Brand)

One Deviant(Ereshkigal) threatened the Multiversal Balance. LT deemed it a threat. Hal has green rings. I have an answer. Lets see the majority

hehe i will say starbrand for the win

Originally posted by starlock
hehe i will say starbrand for the win

Cool sig and avatar

actually starlock is a name made up from the fact i have the starbrand(my roleplaying character) i was a hexer/skinner/fx-er and so on for a game called freedom force,i am a member of their boards Freedom reborn,and i have a site with stuff i made for the game,if you use the link(i dont know if it works heeh)under my sig

it was designed by one of my best friends who has been roleplaying D&D,star wars.MARVEL,DC(all universes) for over 15 years with me

And to tell you the truth Good avatar( i always liked it since i first got here) yourself,it makes you seem very important(in a good way) and brings with it an heir of legitamcy

Originally posted by starlock
actually starlock is a name made up from the fact i have the starbrand(my roleplaying character) i was a hexer/skinner/fx-er and so on for a game called freedom force,i am a member of their boards Freedom reborn,and i have a site with stuff i made for the game,if you use the link(i dont know if it works heeh)under my sig

it was designed by one of my best friends who has been roleplaying D&D,star wars.MARVEL,DC(all universes) for over 15 years with me

And to tell you the truth Good avatar( i always liked it since i first got here) yourself,it makes you seem very important(in a good way) and brings with it an heir of legitamcy

Have a good weekend

Originally posted by Madvillain
Hal Jordan

vs.

Kenneth Connell (current bearer of Star Brand)

Connell(SB) ftw

k...

Originally posted by Madvillain
k...

Can I ask u, how powerful are the GL rings

Originally posted by guy222
Can I ask u, how powerful are the GL rings

Theoretically, as powerful as the user's willpower and imagination.

correct

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Theoretically, as powerful as the user's willpower and imagination.

what if the user's imagination and willpower was so great, he thought he could take on the spectre?...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
what if the user's imagination and willpower was so great, he thought he could take on the spectre?...



Then said user would be very very stupid and/or unaware that a single ring has a limited charge.

ken ftw

Yo.

Ive yet to see the SB perform any feat that puts it past being handled by the QBs, let alone something more powerful like the GL-Rings.

and LT only considered it a threat due to it coming from the greater omniverse, and not liking how a power as strong as it was could be spread.

until I see more OR better, Hal ftw




Tazer

Starbrand gets my vote.

Starbrand wins

keep it coming. tazer makes a point.

anyone care to answer?

Originally posted by Madvillain
keep it coming. tazer makes a point.

anyone care to answer?

Tazer didn't make a point, the fact is that it is inconclusive that a GL ring is more powerful than the Q-Bands, in actuality I would see it the other way around, they both tap power from an infinite source, but the Q-bands are two while a GL usually has one ring.

Originally posted by guy222
One Deviant(Ereshkigal) threatened the Multiversal Balance. LT deemed it a threat. Hal has green rings. I have an answer. Lets see the majority Ah...

I laughed heartily.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

Ive yet to see the SB perform any feat that puts it past being handled by the QBs, let alone something more powerful like the GL-Rings.

and LT only considered it a threat due to it coming from the greater omniverse, and not liking how a power as strong as it was could be spread.

until I see more OR better, Hal ftw




Tazer In 'Starblast,' the Stranger used the Starbrand to transport an entire planet between universes. He also used it to enslave heroes like Black Bolt, Hyperion, Binary, the Shiar Imperial Guard and gave them enhancements as well. That's kind of like Cosmic Cube level.

Skeletron was man-handling Quasar's Quantum Bands before he got the Starbrand. After Skeletron stole the Starbrand from Stranger, he seriously outpowered the Stranger. And I'm pretty sure the Stranger would take out a Green Lantern.

Living Tribunal quarantined the New Universe planet because of hte Starbrand itself. It's arguable that has more to do with its power as it does its nature as a multiversal anomaly. The Starbrand's power has been deemed on-panel to be infinite. A Green Lantern's ring is limited by it's charge. And despite common belief, the ring's ability is not as powerful as its wielder's willpower. Willpower can exceed a ring's limits and fail to match it:

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In 'Starblast,' the Stranger used the Starbrand to transport an entire planet between universes. He also used it to enslave heroes like Black Bolt, Hyperion, Binary, the Shiar Imperial Guard and gave them enhancements as well. That's kind of like Cosmic Cube level.

actually, that feat was more of a combination of HIS OWN personal energies plus that of the Starbrand (like when his world was 1/2-way pushed into its realm); its not a feat done solely via the SB's energies.

also, considering past feats of his might, his compelling the 616-heroes to work for him really isnt that great a feat. this IS a being whom even Galactus & the Watchers pay heed to (moreso the latter than the former admittedly).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Skeletron was man-handling Quasar's Quantum Bands before he got the Starbrand. After Skeletron stole the Starbrand from Stranger, he seriously outpowered the Stranger. And I'm pretty sure the Stranger would take out a Green Lantern.

actually, Skeletron was draining the SB-nrg from the Stranger AFTER he was stated to have been exhausted from moving a world between universes.

and Id be willing to accept Stranger beating a GL, just like Im pretty sure he'd beat just about every1 else who'd had the SB.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Living Tribunal quarantined the New Universe planet because of hte Starbrand itself. It's arguable that has more to do with its power as it does its nature as a multiversal anomaly. The Starbrand's power has been deemed on-panel to be infinite. A Green Lantern's ring is limited by it's charge. And despite common belief, the ring's ability is not as powerful as its wielder's willpower. Willpower can exceed a ring's limits and fail to match it:

sure, it has been deemed on-panel to be infinite, just like its been witnessed on-panel that said infinite-ness only extends to its symbiotic relationship and NOT its power output/usefulness like we saw when it RAN OUT on Quasar in #47 almost killing him in a vacuum. in #48 we saw that it had dwindled down to not even being visible on him anymore and had retreated internally.......

as for GL-willpower & Rings & charges........well, all I can say is that these new batch of Rings were depicted that way.

the OLD Rings were a completely different thing.




Tazer

Ereshkigal FTW

STAR BRAND

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



actually, that feat was more of a combination of HIS OWN personal energies plus that of the Starbrand (like when his world was 1/2-way pushed into its realm); its not a feat done solely via the SB's energies.

also, considering past feats of his might, his compelling the 616-heroes to work for him really isnt that great a feat. this IS a being whom even Galactus & the Watchers pay heed to (moreso the latter than the former admittedly).The world was pushed halfway between two universes when Stranger was screwing around with the instrumentalities in examining the Starbrand. Stranger's own personal power had nothing to do with that event. And Stranger only had a small portion of the Starbrand when he teleported the New World planet into the 616 universe. By that time, Skeletron had been absorbing the Starbrand's energies from him.

I agree that Stranger has vast telepathic powers. But Stranger didn't just compel the heroes to fight, he also altered them and imbued them with enhancements. He gave Black Bolt control over his voice, restored Binary's control over cosmic energies, reconstructed Perun's mallet (Russian pantheon analogue of Mjolnir), etc. That kind of vast manipulation was from the Starbrand itself. Imagine what level of power you would need to completely reconstruct Mjolnir from nothing? I don't believe Stranger has that kind of power.
Originally posted by Tazer
actually, Skeletron was draining the SB-nrg from the Stranger AFTER he was stated to have been exhausted from moving a world between universes.

and Id be willing to accept Stranger beating a GL, just like Im pretty sure he'd beat just about every1 else who'd had the SB.Stranger transported the New World planet in the middle of his fight with Skeletron. This act happened after Skeletron had already siphoned enough Starbrand energy to outpower Stranger. And I seriously doubt your contention that the Stranger could beat someone possessing the Starbrand. If he could, why did he run away from Skeletron w/Starbrand?
Originally posted by Tazer
sure, it has been deemed on-panel to be infinite, just like its been witnessed on-panel that said infinite-ness only extends to its symbiotic relationship and NOT its power output/usefulness like we saw when it RAN OUT on Quasar in #47 almost killing him in a vacuum. in #48 we saw that it had dwindled down to not even being visible on him anymore and had retreated internally.......

as for GL-willpower & Rings & charges........well, all I can say is that these new batch of Rings were depicted that way.

the OLD Rings were a completely different thing.




Tazer The Starbrand's power is infinite. You misunderstood Quasar #48. The only reason it ran out of power on Quasar was because he had already transferred the Starbrand to his girlfriend, Kayla, by that point. A bearer of the Starbrand who transfers it to another person still retains a small residual amount of limited power. Since this thread involves a current bearer of the Star Brand, that limitation does not apply.

And the new rings are the current rings that matter for this thread. The old rings were a bit zany but as far as I recall, they also had limited charges, ran out in 24 hours despite what charge you had left, and were completely useless against yellow. Since the Starbrand's aura was consistently depicted as being yellow, I think a pre-Crisis GL would do worse than a current one.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In 'Starblast,' the Stranger used the Starbrand to transport an entire planet between universes. He also used it to enslave heroes like Black Bolt, Hyperion, Binary, the Shiar Imperial Guard and gave them enhancements as well. That's kind of like Cosmic Cube level.

Skeletron was man-handling Quasar's Quantum Bands before he got the Starbrand. After Skeletron stole the Starbrand from Stranger, he seriously outpowered the Stranger. And I'm pretty sure the Stranger would take out a Green Lantern.

Living Tribunal quarantined the New Universe planet because of hte Starbrand itself. It's arguable that has more to do with its power as it does its nature as a multiversal anomaly. The Starbrand's power has been deemed on-panel to be infinite. A Green Lantern's ring is limited by it's charge. And despite common belief, the ring's ability is not as powerful as its wielder's willpower. Willpower can exceed a ring's limits and fail to match it:

You and I both know that thing about the willpower exceeding the ring is BS.

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The world was pushed halfway between two universes when Stranger was screwing around with the instrumentalities in examining the Starbrand. Stranger's own personal power had nothing to do with that event. And Stranger only had a small portion of the Starbrand when he teleported the New World planet into the 616 universe. By that time, Skeletron had been absorbing the Starbrand's energies from him.

both of these R incorrect: 1)his world was partially displaced when he extracted the SB to his finger and its energies mixed w/his own (as stated in Quasar #56.)

2) Skeletron was absorbing SB-nrg from the NU-Earth, and Stranger intercepted him during said process and apparently atk'd him. then Stranger sent that world to the 616, after which Skel began extracting the nrg's from him, and Stranger then tried to run.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I agree that Stranger has vast telepathic powers. But Stranger didn't just compel the heroes to fight, he also altered them and imbued them with enhancements. He gave Black Bolt control over his voice, restored Binary's control over cosmic energies, reconstructed Perun's mallet (Russian pantheon analogue of Mjolnir), etc. That kind of vast manipulation was from the Starbrand itself. Imagine what level of power you would need to completely reconstruct Mjolnir from nothing? I don't believe Stranger has that kind of power.

giving BB control of his voice and restoring Binary's fractured psyche (not control over cosmic energies) isnt really anything that wouldve been out of the power-range of Stranger normally (since we're just talking biological re-arrangment/alterations); now the Perun hammer-feat I could see possibly being a feat, but as stated earlier Stranger had access to a HUGE amount of energy (both his own AND the SB co-mingled) and as such its still debatable.

as for reforming Mjolnir from nada, I could see Odin doing so frankly which would put that feat @ skyfather -lvl........and Stranger is decidedly more powerful than that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Stranger transported the New World planet in the middle of his fight with Skeletron. This act happened after Skeletron had already siphoned enough Starbrand energy to outpower Stranger. And I seriously doubt your contention that the Stranger could beat someone possessing the Starbrand. If he could, why did he run away from Skeletron w/Starbrand?

theres no real proof that Skeletron could beat Stranger BEFORE he sent the NU-Earth away, and after he did said feat its stated that he was exhausted from doing so.......which would explain Y he didnt/couldnt fight back. its also further stated that he "had to gather his rapidly dwindling energies" in order to teleport away; now if Skeletron was only taking the SB-energies from him that would still have left his own considerable might left to deal w/Skel wouldnt it?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Starbrand's power is infinite. You misunderstood Quasar #48. The only reason it ran out of power on Quasar was because he had already transferred the Starbrand to his girlfriend, Kayla, by that point. A bearer of the Starbrand who transfers it to another person still retains a small residual amount of limited power. Since this thread involves a current bearer of the Star Brand, that limitation does not apply.

again incorrect: Stranger did not transfer the SB he recieved to any1 else, and yet *HE* was totally drained of it, as evidenced by his planet his planet shifting back to the 616. if it was actually infinite, then *no amount of draining* wouldve caused him to lose power.

also, if U check again this thread involves Ken Connell, not that which U state. and even if U did, then the Stranger *still* doesnt apply if we're going to be technical.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And the new rings are the current rings that matter for this thread. The old rings were a bit zany but as far as I recall, they also had limited charges, ran out in 24 hours despite what charge you had left, and were completely useless against yellow. Since the Starbrand's aura was consistently depicted as being yellow, I think a pre-Crisis GL would do worse than a current one.

fair enuff about which Rings would be used, however given that the old style had a charge that was limited by time and NOT output (if anything we've saw that the GLs from then sufferd more from straining, rather than power-drain w/in the 24hr time-frame) that squarely makes it relatively "infinite".....same as the SB was "infinite".

also, even if SB had a yellow aura that matter for naught since: a) Hal has beaten stupid numerous beings that tried to exploit that fact, and b) even if the SB-user couldnt be blasted directly the Rings allowed GLs to manipulate matter as well as energy, so its still a non-issue.

so, in conclusion, Hal Jordan would beat any non-cosmic SB-user; giving it to a being who is ALREADY as powerful as the Stranger would likely be a bit too much in general (but Hal could make a decent fight of it, and if we go by feats for both Id say its a REAL fight with a probable WIN for Hal.)




Tazer

You're pretty much completely wrong about every single event that you're interpreting. Your interpretation of the fight between Stranger and Skeletron is similarly muddled. I've already set forth the corrections in my last post. The Starbrand's power is infinite. It was the ultimate power in the New Universe.

You've tried to postulate several facts as indications that the Starbrand isn't infinite despite it's on-panel descriptions: 1) "It ran out on Quasar." Which is flat-out wrong because as I pointed out, he wasn't the current bearer of the Starbrand. He transferred it to Kayla by that time and only had a residual amount in him. 2) "The Starbrand's power can't be infinite if it can be drained." Pure equivocation. People have stolen infinite power from other people before in comics. People have stolen Cosmic Cube energies from each other, Black Alice has stolen Spectre's power, Silver Surfer stole Uni-Lord's power, Doom stole Beyonder's power, etc. We both know that infinite power can be stolen. 3) "Stranger could take out a Starbrand user, so it's not that powerful." False. Skeletron had drained Stranger only of his Starbrand powers, as stated on-panel. Stranger ran away from him. If Stranger were above a Starbrand user, why would he run away? Simple answer, because a Starbrand wielder is more powerful than the Stranger.

I think you are correct that Binary's fractured psyche was restored. It might have been another character whose control over cosmic energies was restored. But I am not using Stranger in this thread. The only reason Stranger and the 'Starblast' storyline is being argued right now is because you think Stranger did all those things himself, whereas a simple reading of the comic indicates that the Starbrand was responsible.

A current Green Lantern's ring charge is limited and drains with every action, it still must be recharged every 24 hours and it has limits to what it can achieve. The Starbrand exhibits none of those weaknesses and a Starbrand wielder's on-panel feats have demonstrated greater range and power than a current Green Lantern's ring. That's fact. And if this was classic Hal, although pre-Crisis feats are certainly more impressive, the fact that his Starbrand aura is yellow would make it that much more difficult for him.

Ken Connell w/ Starbrand 8/10 either way.

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're pretty much completely wrong about every single event that you're interpreting. Your interpretation of the fight between Stranger and Skeletron is similarly muddled. I've already set forth the corrections in my last post. The Starbrand's power is infinite. It was the ultimate power in the New Universe.

I havent intepreted as much as yur trying to make it seem; just about everything I said was seen & stated ON PANEL. I would also remind U of the fact that even tho a person can pass on the SB to another being, that being *still retains* the SB.

wat does this mean? that even tho the "main" SB has been passed thru many hands, those hands R still linked to it (and as a matter of fact this was even stated in the last ish of SB itself; "retaining 10% of infinity" and all that....)

so again: if 10% of infinity still equals infinity, then Quasar still had said infinite power. and we saw ON PANEL that power burn itself out to being un-useful.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You've tried to postulate several facts as indications that the Starbrand isn't infinite despite it's on-panel descriptions: 1) "It ran out on Quasar." Which is flat-out wrong because as I pointed out, he wasn't the current bearer of the Starbrand. He transferred it to Kayla by that time and only had a residual amount in him. 2) "The Starbrand's power can't be infinite if it can be drained." Pure equivocation. People have stolen infinite power from other people before in comics. People have stolen Cosmic Cube energies from each other, Black Alice has stolen Spectre's power, Silver Surfer stole Uni-Lord's power, Doom stole Beyonder's power, etc. We both know that infinite power can be stolen. 3) "Stranger could take out a Starbrand user, so it's not that powerful." False. Skeletron had drained Stranger only of his Starbrand powers, as stated on-panel. Stranger ran away from him. If Stranger were above a Starbrand user, why would he run away? Simple answer, because a Starbrand wielder is more powerful than the Stranger.

Stranger ran away from Skel becuz his energies (having been MIXED with those of the SB as was stated ON PANEL in Starblast #3) were "dwindling rapidly" and he "was exhausted" (also stated on panel).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think you are correct that Binary's fractured psyche was restored. It might have been another character whose control over cosmic energies was restored. But I am not using Stranger in this thread. The only reason Stranger and the 'Starblast' storyline is being argued right now is because you think Stranger did all those things himself, whereas a simple reading of the comic indicates that the Starbrand was responsible.

if yur not using Stranger in this thread, then just was yur last post filled with nothing BUT feats & actions that Stranger had done, and never mentiond Ken Connell even once?? (note: I wasnt the person who injected Stranger into this convo)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A current Green Lantern's ring charge is limited and drains with every action, it still must be recharged every 24 hours and it has limits to what it can achieve. The Starbrand exhibits none of those weaknesses and a Starbrand wielder's on-panel feats have demonstrated greater range and power than a current Green Lantern's ring. That's fact. And if this was classic Hal, although pre-Crisis feats are certainly more impressive, the fact that his Starbrand aura is yellow would make it that much more difficult for him.

U hold Strangers feats up as the pinnacle, but I notice U have failed to mention ANYTHING for any of the others that have held the SB, so if U want to go by facts then how about this: comparing feats of Ken Connell (and no other SB-user) vs current Hal Jordan.....who wins??

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ken Connell w/ Starbrand 8/10 either way.

IYO, sure. in a comic he'd prolly take 3/10.




Tazer

good debate.

I agree, decent debate. But I'm going to have to lay the thread to rest by listing some of the feats of the Starbrand that don't involve the Stranger and involve Ken Connell. I injected Stranger into the conversation as a rebuttal to Tazer's statement that he has never seen any feat of the Starbrand equal the Quantum Bands, nor a Green Lantern ring. 'Starblast' is just the most obvious source to use since it's probably more read than the original Starbrand comics.

Now he wants some non-Stranger Ken Connell feats. Which is fine. I have the original Starbrand comics and will list Ken Connell's and his several alter egos' uses of the Starbrand. They far outstrip anything a current Hal Jordan has done with his Green Lantern ring. And that will be made obvious soon. Unfortunately, I don't have an imageshack account, so I'll have to resort to issue numbers. Individual scans will be provided on request. Get ready...

In Starbrand #2, an inexperienced Ken Connell takes a nuclear device to the ocean seabed and it detonates in his face. He is completely unharmed by either the ocean depths or the nuclear blast. In Starbrand #3, he travels to the Moon and blows up a mountain. He survives without air and exhibits large destructive capabilties with no apparent fatigue or effort. In Starbrand #7, Ken Connell exhibits FTL travel speeds when he engages the Old Man and travels millions of miles in the span of a conversation navigating his way back to Earth. He also throws the Old Man's carcass from the Earth into outer space with one hand. In Starbrand #10, Ken Connell takes an indestructible character named, Gladiator, to the Sun's surface in one panel, then ends up throwing him off into deep space.

But other then the fact that these feats required no knowledge, exertion, concentration or specific charge on the Starbrand user's part, they are still pretty standard fair for Green Lanterns. The next few feats show what a Starbrand can really do and outstrip a current Green Lantern's capabilities.

In Starbrand #14, the Starchild, an infant manifestation of Ken Connell, brings a person back to life and drastically altered his physique to the pinnacle of human limits. In Starbrand #15, he effortlessly pulls out millions of cubic feet of a plant monster from Pittsburgh and kills it in outer space. In Starbrand #16, he actually eliminates all death from the planet. Not just human beings, but animals, vegetation and micro organisms. He is then convinced to reverse the process. In Starbrand #17, the corpse of current Ken Connell is reformed. Keep in mind that all users of the Starbrand were shown to be immortal and even after death were revived. In War #3, every nation has fired their nuclear missiles and he deactivates them all instantly. In War #4, he goes one step further and deactivates every single plane, tank and even handgun that is being used on Earth!

In Starbrand #19, the Starchild instantly teleports two citizens and the current manifestation of Ken Connell onto an asteroid orbiting Jupiter. It's also revealed that a backlash of Starbrand power created a temporal loop where Ken Connell is revealed to be himself, the Old Man from 500 years past and the Starchild. Together they fix the temporal damage which threatens the entire universe by creating a temporal loop and merging their identities to the true Ken Connell. However it seems that Ken Connell is forced to live through the loop over and over again.

Restoring life to the dead, eliminating the concept of death itself, immortality, instant deactivation of every single weapon on Earth and the ability to create a temporal loop? Yeah, that's Ken Connell and that's the Starbrand. All above any current Green Lantern. It's essentially wish fulfillment on the highest order like a fully powered Cosmic Cube.

Ken Connell 8/10. The only known caveats are that panic induces the Starbrand power to fade and a limitation of the temporal. Hal has a 2/10 chance to exploit those... in a comic anyway.

Have u read New Universal with Ken. Pretty good

Yo.

nice list, but allow me to address some of these which Ive seen GLs have done that can be compared (anything I dont address is either due to not having a comparative feat or its ignorable):

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #2, an inexperienced Ken Connell takes a nuclear device to the ocean seabed and it detonates in his face. He is completely unharmed by either the ocean depths or the nuclear blast.

similarly Hal Jordan threw up a shield that survived a 300 megaton explosion at point-blank-range, AND protected Superman at the same time.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #10, Ken Connell takes an indestructible character named, Gladiator, to the Sun's surface in one panel, then ends up throwing him off into deep space.

yea, that took MORE than 1 panel; try 4.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #14, the Starchild, an infant manifestation of Ken Connell, brings a person back to life and drastically altered his physique to the pinnacle of human limits.

in that instance the SC said doing so was possible as long as there was a spark of life left within the body; heres 2 instances where a GL has brought a being back to life after being LONG dead:

in GL v2 #196 Guy warps time to bring the Shark back to life, and doing it thus was necessary as his body had been atomized in an oil tanker explosion.

but granted, Gardner *was told* how to do the above feat, so in light of that I submit the act (in GL v2 #183) of rookie GL-Yron of Grenda returning GL-Stel back to the land of the living (and in both cases the "returnees" had been LONG dead), and no he was not told how to do so.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #15, he effortlessly pulls out millions of cubic feet of a plant monster from Pittsburgh and kills it in outer space.

thats not wat happened: in that ish he was forcing the plant back into the Pitt, but found that at the rim it was resisting his power, so wat he did was contain it and unleash his full power on the entirety of the area (which shows a HUGE containment field visible from space) to finally end the threat but inadvertantly kills the plant.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #16, he actually eliminates all death from the planet. Not just human beings, but animals, vegetation and micro organisms. He is then convinced to reverse the process.

now THIS is something I'll grant ya I cant come up w/a comparable feat for, and it IS a doozy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #17, the corpse of current Ken Connell is reformed. Keep in mind that all users of the Starbrand were shown to be immortal and even after death were revived.

we've seen that a few GL have been long-lived, but the only instance that I know of where a GL has used the Ring to extend the length of their lives was Kyle during the Obsidian Age -arc of JLA. HOWEVER there is the instance of a woman who used a Ring in order return from being a corpse in order to return to life and kill her murderer.....which ironically was the GL of her sector (Ayria).

also of note: she brought back other souls that had also been murdered to help in the task.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In War #3, every nation has fired their nuclear missiles and he deactivates them all instantly. In War #4, he goes one step further and deactivates every single plane, tank and even handgun that is being used on Earth!

I cant remember the specific ish #, so plz bear with me: when a small contigent of GL-members were based on Earth, they claimed as their own a nice plot of land in a forrested area and made it so no electronic device could work within its confines in order to facilitate some measure of privacy from the various news agencies who were trying to get info on them (they let every1 know they were there).

when I find it, I'll give the ish number (but Im thinking it was GLC v1 #3 or #4, which would be GL v2 #203 or #204)

I'll also add Hal freezing every being in their tracks (with a single exception done on purpose) on (and hovering nearby in) space a shattered planet in the Berliotz star system in order to stop a mass-riot from a cultural opera that had been sabotaged; this happend in GL v2 #72.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In Starbrand #19, the Starchild instantly teleports two citizens and the current manifestation of Ken Connell onto an asteroid orbiting Jupiter. It's also revealed that a backlash of Starbrand power created a temporal loop where Ken Connell is revealed to be himself, the Old Man from 500 years past and the Starchild. Together they fix the temporal damage which threatens the entire universe by creating a temporal loop and merging their identities to the true Ken Connell. However it seems that Ken Connell is forced to live through the loop over and over again.

hey, thats not bad. but I'll counter it with Hal stopping time on the whole planet in Action Comics #642 while he made a decision.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Restoring life to the dead, eliminating the concept of death itself, immortality, instant deactivation of every single weapon on Earth and the ability to create a temporal loop? Yeah, that's Ken Connell and that's the Starbrand. All above any current Green Lantern. It's essentially wish fulfillment on the highest order like a fully powered Cosmic Cube.

1) done numerous times, 2) not attempted, 3) done, 4) not attempted but clearly & EASILY feasible, and 5) not attempted.

and btw: where is yur evidence that *ANY* of the previously mentioned would require a massive amount of nrg, so much so that U dont think a current GL could pull it off??

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ken Connell 8/10. The only known caveats are that panic induces the Starbrand power to fade and a limitation of the temporal. Hal has a 2/10 chance to exploit those... in a comic anyway.

Ken Connell would get beat by a man who is as powerful as him, more knowledgeable in h2h combat, more skilled in the USE of his power, and flat-out simply not being as much of a wuss.

Hal Jordan would take the majority here, as previously stated.




Tazer

Star Brand ftw

Yo.



I forgot to add: in JLA v1 #212 Jordan 'ported himself, Supes, Dinah & Ollie to Earth (and to 3 different locations on it no less) from a planet that was approximately 1,132 light years away (the homeworld of the War-Kohns).




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

nice list, but allow me to address some of these which Ive seen GLs have done that can be compared (anything I dont address is either due to not having a comparative feat or its ignorable):

similarly Hal Jordan threw up a shield that survived a 300 megaton explosion at point-blank-range, AND protected Superman at the same time.Pre-Crisis. Either way, I don't dispute that a Green Lantern could survive a nuke to the face.Originally posted by Tazer
yea, that took MORE than 1 panel; try 4.Ken took him out of Earth's orbit in the first panel, looked at the direction of the Sun in the second panel. Took him to the Sun in the third panel. Struggled with the decision to let him go in the fourth panel. I'm referring to the third panel. By your criticism, you could argue it took him the whole comic to take Gladiator to the sun. I'm talking about how quick it took him to traverse the distance to the sun. Nevertheless, it's something a Green Lantern can do.Originally posted by Tazer
in that instance the SC said doing so was possible as long as there was a spark of life left within the body; heres 2 instances where a GL has brought a being back to life after being LONG dead:

in GL v2 #196 Guy warps time to bring the Shark back to life, and doing it thus was necessary as his body had been atomized in an oil tanker explosion.

but granted, Gardner *was told* how to do the above feat, so in light of that I submit the act (in GL v2 #183) of rookie GL-Yron of Grenda returning GL-Stel back to the land of the living (and in both cases the "returnees" had been LONG dead), and no he was not told how to do so.He was clinically dead and an autopsy was performed on the corpse, but by Starchild's accounts, he did have the smallest spark of life within him. This is true. Once again, pre-Crisis Guy Gardner and pre-Crisis Yron. Stel is a robot too, so how much that equates to reviving a human from the dead, I don't know. Either way, it's pre-Crisis.Originally posted by Tazer
thats not wat happened: in that ish he was forcing the plant back into the Pitt, but found that at the rim it was resisting his power, so wat he did was contain it and unleash his full power on the entirety of the area (which shows a HUGE containment field visible from space) to finally end the threat but inadvertantly kills the plant.The plant began resisting his pressure on it, it didn't resist his power. But you're right, he utilized the full extent of his power and inadvertently killed it with the containment field that was visible from outer space.Originally posted by Tazer
now THIS is something I'll grant ya I cant come up w/a comparable feat for, and it IS a doozy.

we've seen that a few GL have been long-lived, but the only instance that I know of where a GL has used the Ring to extend the length of their lives was Kyle during the Obsidian Age -arc of JLA. HOWEVER there is the instance of a woman who used a Ring in order return from being a corpse in order to return to life and kill her murderer.....which ironically was the GL of her sector (Ayria).

also of note: she brought back other souls that had also been murdered to help in the task.I'll take your word for it that it's post-Crisis.Originally posted by Tazer
I cant remember the specific ish #, so plz bear with me: when a small contigent of GL-members were based on Earth, they claimed as their own a nice plot of land in a forrested area and made it so no electronic device could work within its confines in order to facilitate some measure of privacy from the various news agencies who were trying to get info on them (they let every1 know they were there).

when I find it, I'll give the ish number (but Im thinking it was GLC v1 #3 or #4, which would be GL v2 #203 or #204)

I'll also add Hal freezing every being in their tracks (with a single exception done on purpose) on (and hovering nearby in) space a shattered planet in the Berliotz star system in order to stop a mass-riot from a cultural opera that had been sabotaged; this happend in GL v2 #72.I'll take your word for it on the former feat. I'd like to know if it's pre-Crisis. Nevertheless, setting up an electromagnetic intereference field around a plot of land does not really compare to the global feat of disarming every single weapon on Earth.

The second feat is also pre-Crisis.Originally posted by Tazer
hey, thats not bad. but I'll counter it with Hal stopping time on the whole planet in Action Comics #642 while he made a decision.Pre-Crisis again.
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



I forgot to add: in JLA v1 #212 Jordan 'ported himself, Supes, Dinah & Ollie to Earth (and to 3 different locations on it no less) from a planet that was approximately 1,132 light years away (the homeworld of the War-Kohns).




Tazer Pre-Crisis again.Originally posted by Tazer
1) done numerous times, 2) not attempted, 3) done, 4) not attempted but clearly & EASILY feasible, and 5) not attempted.

and btw: where is yur evidence that *ANY* of the previously mentioned would require a massive amount of nrg, so much so that U dont think a current GL could pull it off??With regards to the top feats of the Starbrand, you haven't shown me any feat by a post-Crisis Hal Jordan that compares to: 1) Restoring life to the clinically dead; 2) eliminating the concept of death for all lifeforms on Earth and undoing it; 3) real immortality (not virtual and not extension of life); 4) instant deactivation of every weapon on Earth including handguns; and 5) temporal manipulations. A current Green Lantern ring is sorely outgunned. It's like comparing a pistol to a bazooka. Considering how many post-Crisis Green Lantern comics there are and Ken Connell's Starbrand feats come from only 20+ comics, it's clear that the Starbrand on average, is vastly more powerful then a current Green Lantern ring.Originally posted by Tazer
Ken Connell would get beat by a man who is as powerful as him, more knowledgeable in h2h combat, more skilled in the USE of his power, and flat-out simply not being as much of a wuss.

Hal Jordan would take the majority here, as previously stated.




Tazer A pre-Crisis Hal Jordan still does not have any feats over Ken Connell w/ Starbrand. His best and most comparable ones come from fooling around with time, something that Ken Connell has done as well. Added to that, the Starbrand aura and energies are yellow. So pre-Crisis Hal Jordan would be utterly screwed taking him on as he could never directly affect his person with his Green Lantern energies. His shields would also crumble from any Starbrand energies. Sure, he'd try to put up a fight like he always does, but against the overwhelming might of the Starbrand?

And as it stands, for this thread, a current post-Crisis Hal Jordan would be utter toast. It doesn't matter if Hal is skilled with his ring or has H2H combat feats. Ken's more powerful by a wide margin and if you can't accept that, that's fine. It's your opinion, but I think it's an utterly narrow one. At the very least, I think I've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that a Starbrand user has feats above a Green Lantern's and Quantum Band user's. Which is the statement that I took objection to in the first place.

Ken Connell w/ Starbrand 8/10. Peace.

Action 642 is not pre-CoIE

Originally posted by Soljer
Action 642 is not pre-CoIE Whoops. You're absolutely right. It came out in 1989. Hal stopped suspended time on the planet. And while I've never seen anything remotely close to it again, it did happen. Impressive post-Crisis ability by the ring, I thought that was only pre-Crisis. In context, it's a preprogrammed response to an imminent death of a Green Lantern. I don't know how much a Green Lantern can do in that state. Hal's (spirit?) was floating around having a conversation with Deadman while his body lay on the ground. Not sure how that would apply to a fight if he's already at death's door. Anybody got the rest of the comic, what exactly did Hal Jordan do in such a state besides talk with Deadman?

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Pre-Crisis. Either way, I don't dispute that a Green Lantern could survive a nuke to the face.

wrong, that was POST-Crisis cuz it happend during Millenium

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm talking about how quick it took him to traverse the distance to the sun.

ok, thats fair.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Once again, pre-Crisis Guy Gardner and pre-Crisis Yron. Stel is a robot too, so how much that equates to reviving a human from the dead, I don't know. Either way, it's pre-Crisis.

the Ring doesnt/didnt behave any different pre- & post-Crisis (so I dont know wat diff that makes), and Stel *was* called a life-form, so even if he's not carbon based thats good enuff for me (thereve been a few silicon based GLs).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'll take your word for it that it's post-Crisis.I'll take your word for it on the former feat. I'd like to know if it's pre-Crisis. Nevertheless, setting up an electromagnetic intereference field around a plot of land does not really compare to the global feat of disarming every single weapon on Earth.

The second feat is also pre-Crisis.Pre-Crisis again.

well, the Illyria -feat happend in GLQuarterly #7 (which came out in '93), and the bit w/the GLs on Earth happend after the Oans left this plane of existence w/the Zamarons (which was #200) and that happend after CoIE.

also, while I admit that the scale isnt close to the same Id say its a good example of proof-of-concept (given we've seen GL single-handedly defend a planet missle strikes & wrap planets the size of Jupiter in fields that keep radiation from leaving).

and again, pre-C feats for Hal & the GLC *havent* been retconned away, and the Rings werent hampered or redesigned until Kyle, so its still valid.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Pre-Crisis again.With regards to the top feats of the Starbrand, you haven't shown me any feat by a post-Crisis Hal Jordan that compares to: 1) Restoring life to the clinically dead; 2) eliminating the concept of death for all lifeforms on Earth and undoing it; 3) real immortality (not virtual and not extension of life); 4) instant deactivation of every weapon on Earth including handguns; and 5) temporal manipulations. A current Green Lantern ring is sorely outgunned. It's like comparing a pistol to a bazooka.

really? tell me: how many jaunts thru time have we seen *any* SB-user attempt (theres a bunch pre AND post-CoIE), or even how many realitiy manipulations (done post-CoIE) have we seen them do, or how many times have we seen spontaneous generation of a cure for plague it had never seen b4 (done post-CoIE), trapped a being that was defined as a god (done post-CoIE), or defended & DEFEATING an invasion that came to the planet that containing forces from atleast 9 different worlds and utilizing weapons capable of eliminating all life (except 1 specific type) ALL at the speed of thought......AND on top of that taking down 3 other beings who are empowered the SAME as U (and yes, that was POST-CoIE too)??

plz, since U want specific comparable actions, then show me *those feats* from a Starbrand -user.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Considering how many post-Crisis Green Lantern comics there are and Ken Connell's Starbrand feats come from only 20+ comics, it's clear that the Starbrand on average, is vastly more powerful then a current Green Lantern ring.A pre-Crisis Hal Jordan still does not have any feats over Ken Connell w/ Starbrand. His best and most comparable ones come from fooling around with time, something that Ken Connell has done as well. Added to that, the Starbrand aura and energies are yellow. So pre-Crisis Hal Jordan would be utterly screwed taking him on as he could never directly affect his person with his Green Lantern energies. His shields would also crumble from any Starbrand energies. Sure, he'd try to put up a fight like he always does, but against the overwhelming might of the Starbrand?

I'll note that U still havent given any proof of how current Rings cant/couldnt pull off things done in the past, and if the yellow aura would make things so screwed for Hal then exactly *how did* he defeat Sinestro, Javelin & Goldface all those times??

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And as it stands, for this thread, a current post-Crisis Hal Jordan would be utter toast. It doesn't matter if Hal is skilled with his ring or has H2H combat feats. Ken's more powerful by a wide margin and if you can't accept that, that's fine. It's your opinion, but I think it's an utterly narrow one. At the very least, I think I've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that a Starbrand user has feats above a Green Lantern's and Quantum Band user's. Which is the statement that I took objection to in the first place.

if U had shown that, Id accept it......but U havent shown it. U want to eliminate all feats done pre-CoIE under some assumption that Ive *yet* to figure out, and then want to take a few showings that Hal hasnt done (mostly for lack of trying) and hold them up as something he *couldnt* do.

yea, that doesnt sell here comrade.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ken Connell w/ Starbrand 8/10. Peace.

Hal would punch Ken in the face, then pick him up & show him how to fight......and then punch him in the face again, this time knocking him out.

so natch, Hal for the majority.




Tazer

Yo.

upon review, I realize that I should also list where & when these happend, aside from clarifying them as being post-CoIE:



for example Guy, in JLI #59



as Ch'p did in GLC v1 #3 (or GL #203 if U will)



as John did during Cosmic Odyssey #2



GL-Driq in GLC #19 (or GL v2 #219 if U will)



as John did in GL: Mosaic #18. however, that being said I still maintain:






Tazer

Interesting debate...still going with the Starbrand for the win

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You and I both know that thing about the willpower exceeding the ring is BS.

On panel bs, such as the one with the armbar that can lock any humanoid form no matter how strong.

Yo.

Originally posted by Bentley
On panel bs, such as the one with the armbar that can lock any humanoid form no matter how strong.

and thats the rub really, given everything that a Ring has accomplished before.




Tazer

I'm drunk. Please post your challenge to my arguments in a paragraph or so. I'm not trying to make fun, just need to know where I should focus. You're saying Green Lantern feats that are pre-Crisis should hold up in current continuity? And you're saying that there are no Starbrand feats greater then any Green Lantern feats?

Well, if those are your points, they're simple to counter. First, according to you, current GL rings are subject to limitations that pre-Crisis GL rings were not subject to. I asserted that they had limited charges and could be surpassed by willpower even back then. Both of these characteristics are inarguably current continuity. You said that pre-Crisis GL rings were not subject to these current limitations. Going by your own opinion, it's obvious that current GL rings are different from pre-Crisis rings. Which is why pre-Crisis ring feats do not apply in current threads.

Add to this fact that the thread could simply indicate that pre-Crisis feats are allowed, that would clarify things. Numerous threads are made with "classic" Hal Jordan or PC Hal Jordan, etc. For you to obviate this distinction from this particular thread is disingenuous because you know as well as I do that pre-Crisis is treated differently from post-Crisis. There are simple reasons for this. First, Hal Jordan has no memories of pre-Crisis events. Second, alternate past versions are subject to the same scrutiny that alternate future versions are. Third, pre-Crisis continuity is a terrible mess and 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' was a direct response to this. Erase everything, start anew.

I've been willing to welcome arguments about pre-Crisis Hal Jordan, but at the same time, I think that if such an incarnation of a character is used, then their greatest feats and greatest weaknesses come in a package. The fact is, a pre-Crisis Hal Jordan could not directly affect anything that was yellow. He could manipulate energy and matter surrounding said yellow thing, but could never directly attack or manipulate the yellow thing. It's how he fought and why Hal's encounters with yellow are either utterly embarassing or dangerously exciting. The fact that you are comparing Javelin, Goldface and Sinestro to the Starbrand is reaching. This list of yellow enemies in itself is an over-generalization as you yourself would readily admit that there were specific circumstances that gave Hal Jordan the victory in those fights. The Starbrand's yellow energies and constant aura would make it that much tougher to fight Ken Connell. Not impossible, but hard enough that any advantage in range of pre-Crisis feats he used to show would be significantly offset by the disadvantage of having to work around the yellow weakness.

Finally, you assert that there aren't Starbrand feats to match Green Lantern feats? You challenged me to find specific Ken Connell feats because Stranger feats shouldn't apply. And after doing so, you begin listing Green Lantern feats other then Hal Jordan as a rebuttal. Well that is either an oversight or a double standard. If it's an oversight, the only impressive current Hal Jordan feats you have is a temporal suspension of the planet when he is near death and surviving a 300 megaton explosion to his face while protecting Superman. Those are the only two current feats you've posted. Everything else is non-Hal Jordan. The list of Ken Connell feats far outstrips that short list and you know it.

Now if you want to revert back and start listing any Green Lantern feat as fair game, then I'll call out the double standard and start putting together a list of all Starbrand user feats and stack them against current Green Lanterns. Do you want me to do this? Because then Quasar, Stranger, Layla, Skeletron and Jacob Burnley feats are fair game. Are we arguing Green Lantern ring vs. Starbrand or current Hal Jordan vs. current Ken Connell? Swinging back and forth between the two only when it suits you is logically fallacious and downright unfair.

Either way, pre-Crisis or post-Crisis, all Green Lanterns or just Hal Jordan, you arguably still don't have the feats to top current Ken Connell. Eliminating the concept of death from all life on the Earth? Restoring a clinically dead organism to life? Linking past, current and future incarnations into a perpetual temporal Moebius loop? Your best feats are a programmed temporal suspension response to imminent death in Action Comics #642 (I still want to know what Hal was actually able to accomplish during this stoppage of time other then a conversation with Deadman), a temporal jump through time by Guy Gardner in JLI #59 (which is fine, but I still think resolving a time paradox that threatens to destroy a universe is greater time manipulation than that), trapping a being who was a god in Green Lantern #219 (when actually Driq was assisting his fellow GL, Flodo Span, who was an abstract being), defeating an alien invasion in GL: Mosaic #18 (would instant planetary shutdown of all defense systems and weapons, both electronic, nuclear and mechanical match that?) and spontaneous plague curing in Cosmic Odyssey #2 (this is supposed to approach elimination of the concept of death for an entire planet?).

Is that list about right? If it's not, then list the top five pre-Crisis feats you have and the top five post-Crisis feats you have and I'll respond thereafter. Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, whatever your cup of tea is this time around since you appear comfortable dictating the limits and circumstances in how I respond. Pre-Crisis GLs don't have feats to match Starbrand users. Pre-Crisis Hal Jordan is at a severe disadvantage due to yellow weakness. Post-Crisis GLns have significantly less powerful feats then Starbrand users. Post-Crisis Hal Jordan has even fewer.

On a related note, it's important to remember that the Starbrand is the most powerful source of power in its universe. It is infinite and not subject to any limitations of 24 hour recharging, will surpassing feat limits, weaknesses to color spectrums or subject to inexperience of its user. The Starbrand operates on a wish-fulfillment level that rivals a fully charged Cosmic Cube. Exactly the reason why the Living Tribunal had to quarantine the damn thing to prevent a multiversal contamination and catastrophe. In no way does a GL ring upset the multiversal balance and neither does a GL ring demonstrate infinite levels of power or wish-fulfillment potential on that scale. A GL ring is a weapon rife with limits and weaknesses that is dependent on a user's experience. The Starbrand is power unto itself with none of those trappings.

Ken Connell 8/10.

Yo.

ok, I'll respond to yur post by paragraph and number them rather than quote all of it (done for brevity)

OPENING STATEMENT
wat I said on page 1 was that I hadnt seen any feat mentioned that put it out of the range of the QB, and by extension the GL-Rings, and I stand by that. wat Im saying is that the actions done by Hal & most of the other GLs WERE NOT retconned by the events of the CoIE, given that right afterward his book was the only 1 to referrence the event & some of the various fallout stemming from said. and even when GL vol 3 started there was NO RETCON MADE to Hal or the GLC which renders their past histories changed; this is a situation that nobody else but Hal, and possibly Swamp Thing, exists under @ DC.

and Im saying that while U have shown some decent feats, and 1 really good feat, that alone does NOT show itself to put a bearer of the SB decisively over a GL.

PARAGRAPH 1
no, wat I said was that U have yet to show any feat done in the past by a GL, that could not be done NOW, due to them now actually having a finite charge carried within. *U* asserted that the past Rings having an infinite charge w/in 24hrs worked against them somehow, and I asked how; U asserted that the current GL-Rings would be proven inferior given that they DID have a finite charge.......again I asked how.

that they have different characteristics is NOT an indicator that Pre-CoIE GL-Ring feats should not apply in current threads.

PARAGRAPH 2
I know that some threads make a distinction between pre- & post-CoIE feats and showings, however plz refer to my comments above on that issue; that also applies to most of his memories in regards to pre-C events.

PARAGRAPH 3
I have no problem taking his weakensses into account with his strengths (I mean fair IS fair), but weaknesses exploitation (of any degree) doesnt automatically turn into auto-wins for those fighting against them, and Hal has shown that he can be quite adept at dealing with those situations.

as for any over-reaching on my part about Hal fighting something yellow, we had the man get into a direct battle of Ring-blasts against Sinestro in #91...........wanna guess wat happend?? he held his own, even beating him in a direct will-battle, and only left the scene to help out a fallen GL. so take that as U will, as I know for *my money* this doesnt mean as much as U'd like to make it out to be; this isnt a mountain he'd have to surmount, but an obstacle.

PARAGRAPH 4
I never said there werent enuff SB-feats to match GL-feats. I asked U to use Ken Connell feats since THATS who is being used by the OP for this topic, even tho U made yur entrance into this thread using Strangers feats. U were the person who wanted to discount anything pre-CoIE under the mistaken condition that the Rings then were different, and was only looking for "current" feats......

so if the list is short, that aint my fault or prob.

PARAGRAPH 5
actually, I was *always* arguing Hal Jordan vs Ken Connell, altho I see yur still trying to limit which feat, and Ring, can & cant be used........and U wanna talk about ME being unfair?!??

PARAGRAPH 6
if U want to limit it to just Hal Jordan, then yur right as Hal *himself* hasnt done any of those particular feats, non-combat as they are.

but I would like to bring up the fine point that the SC didnt eliminate the concept of death, but simply found a way to keep things from dying: if he had eliminated THE CONCEPT then Jane & Roger wouldnt have had any knowledge when he came to discuss the matter.

similarly, the SC only partially disabled the nations of the world, and not EVERYTHING as U say since we saw good ol'shotguns still worked.

and also, as it pertains to fixing (or even *causing*) a time paradox, if U paid attention to wat had happend then it looks the SC was wrong in thinking that he/they could solve it by doing wateverda****itwas he/they was gonna do......cuz if U'll remember Jacob gave the SB to LT. Hanrahan; now if sealing it off was supposed fix everything, and he/they apparently didnt have the SB when they attempted to do so, and the universe hadnt imploded by the time Quasar showed up.........then I guess that feat matter to little more than a minor headache (especially given that they dont address how it is that Ken could be born while the old man was still crawling his way out from that rock.)

PARAGRAPH 7
how am I dictating?? I was just trying follow the stipulations of the thread; but just out of curiosity can U tell me just how many combat feats does Ken Connell have?? interesting that the 5 big feats that U want to bandy about as being far-and-away better than a GLs.....and have *nothing to do* with combat.

but seriously, Id like to see some.

PARAGRAPH 8
I dont see anything in wat the SB has done that "rivals a fully charged Cosmic Cube" given that it took the SC a number of WEEKS to understand how life worked, and a CC would simply do it when wished, and the SB itself has demonstrated that it in-fact ISNT infinite since we SAW it run out on Quasar......which shouldnt happen if it really were.

and for the record: LT quaranteed the damn thing becuz while powerful he mostly didnt like the ease with which it could be transferred.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ken Connell 8/10.

at getting KTFO'd by Hal, sure.






Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
but I would like to bring up the fine point that the SC didnt eliminate the concept of death, but simply found a way to keep things from dying: if he had eliminated THE CONCEPT then Jane & Roger wouldnt have had any knowledge when he came to discuss the matter.

similarly, the SC only partially disabled the nations of the world, and not EVERYTHING as U say since we saw good ol'shotguns still worked.That's fair to say. He didn't eliminate the existence of death, he just granted every single organism on the planet perpetual life. But he did disable all weapons. On-panel, what we see is a plane's engines stop, then militant's rifles and handguns stop working, then jetplanes stop working (except for their ejection systems), then tanks stop working and then he proclaims that he's prevented all nuclear devices from working. And that was the end of it. As far as I read The War #4, nobody fired a shotgun after or during those events.Originally posted by Tazer
and also, as it pertains to fixing (or even *causing*) a time paradox, if U paid attention to wat had happend then it looks the SC was wrong in thinking that he/they could solve it by doing wateverda****itwas he/they was gonna do......cuz if U'll remember Jacob gave the SB to LT. Hanrahan; now if sealing it off was supposed fix everything, and he/they apparently didnt have the SB when they attempted to do so, and the universe hadnt imploded by the time Quasar showed up.........then I guess that feat matter to little more than a minor headache (especially given that they dont address how it is that Ken could be born while the old man was still crawling his way out from that rock.)

I dont see anything in wat the SB has done that "rivals a fully charged Cosmic Cube" given that it took the SC a number of WEEKS to understand how life worked, and a CC would simply do it when wished, and the SB itself has demonstrated that it in-fact ISNT infinite since we SAW it run out on Quasar......which shouldnt happen if it really were.
They were mistaken in that they were finally sealing off the Starbrand's power forever. But it was the temporal unravelling caused by their co-existence that was directly threatening the universe. The Starbrand started the whole mess, so surely they would want to seal it off as well. It doesn't mean that he failed in his plan to save the universe. Also, the Starchild didn't even know what death was. He was an infant. Of course it'd take him a few weeks to figure that out. And the Starbrand is infinite. I already corrected you three times on why Quasar ran out of Starbrand energy. He only had a residual amount of it inside of him because he already transferred it to Kayla. The thread involves a current bearer of Starbrand. Not a former bearer of Starbrand with residual power. The limitation of a former bearer has no point in this thread whatsoever. If you want to make a Hal Jordan vs. former bearer of Starbrand thread, then knock yourself out.Originally posted by Tazer
how am I dictating?? I was just trying follow the stipulations of the thread; but just out of curiosity can U tell me just how many combat feats does Ken Connell have?? interesting that the 5 big feats that U want to bandy about as being far-and-away better than a GLs.....and have *nothing to do* with combat.

but seriously, Id like to see some.Now it's about pure combat feats? That sounds like dictating to me. You started out by asserting the Starbrand has no feats to put it past a Green Lantern ring. That's how we started. I listed Stranger feats. Then you wanted specific Ken Connell feats. I gave them. Then you responded with all these other Green Lantern feats. I pointed out the double standard. Now you want to narrow it down to "combat feats" by Ken Connell. Ken Connell's been in less than a dozen physical confrontations with enemies. We both know that Ken's "combat feats" are few and far between.

"Combat feats" in these few appearances do not limit the scope and versatility of his Starbrand. And for hypothetical vs threads, the scope and versatility of a character's power is similarly important in the inquiry. This should be obvious since you yourself have been posting feats like curing a plague, preventing radiation from leaking from a planet, bringing other people back to life, setting up fields of electromagnetic interference, etc. Nothing to do with combat. But they sure as heck matter. You may not be doing it intentionally, but you are switching back and forth between inquiries and narrowing the so-called "playing field of feat legitimacy" when it suits you and your arguments.

Nevertheless, we're not that far apart. We disagree slightly on how yellow weaknesses handicap GLs. We agree that current GL rings operate differently then pre-Crisis GL rings. What we disagree on significantly is the subject of pre/post-Crisis Green Lantern continuity. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Why? Because even by taking your word for it, this is the bottom-line: 1) Pre-Crisis GLs don't have feats to match Starbrand users; 2) pre-Crisis Hal Jordan doesn't have feats to match Ken Connell's; 3) post-Crisis GLns have significantly less powerful feats then Starbrand users; and 4) post-Crisis Hal Jordan has even fewer against Ken Connell. You haven't proven any superiority in any of these four fields. Like I said, go ahead and post your top GL feats, pre/post-Crisis. And go ahead and post your top Hal Jordan feats, pre/post-Crisis. I'll respond in kind and let everybody else decide who's more persuasive.

Just know that you can expect me to point out context on your feats with the same rigor you have been subjecting to my feats. You've corrected me several times and that is always appreciated.

Looking at both sides of the argument, I'm leaning towards the Star Brand.

SB FTW

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Whoops. You're absolutely right. It came out in 1989. Hal stopped suspended time on the planet. And while I've never seen anything remotely close to it again, it did happen. Impressive post-Crisis ability by the ring, I thought that was only pre-Crisis. In context, it's a preprogrammed response to an imminent death of a Green Lantern. I don't know how much a Green Lantern can do in that state. Hal's (spirit?) was floating around having a conversation with Deadman while his body lay on the ground. Not sure how that would apply to a fight if he's already at death's door. Anybody got the rest of the comic, what exactly did Hal Jordan do in such a state besides talk with Deadman?

I've got the entire issue. While he was in that state, his ring scanned the Earth for suitable replacements (though, that was most assuredly part of the pre-programmed response).

Then, he talked to Deadman. He talked to Clark Kent (who was unaffected by the time-stoppage, since he can move and think at hyper-speeds). He talked to Abin Sur (who was programmed into the ring). And then...he decided not to let himself die, rejuvenated himself, and was no longer in said 'spirit' state.

So, yeah, while he was in that state, all he really did was talk - Deadman, Superman, and Abin Sur.

Hope that helps. .

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great scans guy222


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