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Captain America and Black Panther

versus

Dare Devil and Elektra

DD and Elektra for the win.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Captain America and Black Panther

versus

Dare Devil and Elektra

Capt/T'Challa

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD and Elektra for the win.


Really!?

Cap and Black Panther.

Cap/BP

As loathe as I am to say it, it's Cap & BP for the win.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Really!?

Yea, really.

does Elektra know where the seams are on BP's vibranium suit..?

Team 1

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yea, really.

Care to explain!?

Daredevil and Elektra ftw.

Originally posted by braz
does Elektra know where the seams are on BP's vibranium suit..? It doesn't matter really. DD should be able to sense where there is no vibranium on his suit, and Elektra has telepathy, so they can communicate that to each other.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
It doesn't matter really. DD should be able to sense where there is no vibranium on his suit, and Elektra has telepathy, so they can communicate that to each other.

So that automatically means they are going to win!?

"OMG they know how to get past panther suit, so one hit should obviously do the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yeah, thats what people tend to say, and they don't tend to stop and think about how stupid they sound.

When panther will know, DD and Electra will obviously be going for the seems, his speed and agility is equal to that of beast, and his senses, while not on DD level (due to the radar sense) are nothing to scoff at. Add in his tech, his light armor, daggers claws, etc. Things might get a little ugly for DD and Electra.

That argument tends to get annoying, people forget, Panther had insane durability feats pre-vibranium suit era. Not to mention multiple shots from Iron Fist (who shredded his suit) and was still standing afterwards for a little bit.

Add the tactics god that cap is, man, things are real ugly.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
So that automatically means they are going to win!?
No. Everything else they have going for them means they're going to win.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
"OMG they know how to get past panther suit, so one hit should obviously do the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Yeah, thats what people tend to say, and they don't tend to stop and think about how stupid they sound. Why don't you go ahead and point out to me where in the above post I said that. Don't categorize me because they can use a tactic that would lead to BP's loss.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
When panther will know, DD and Electra will obviously be going for the seems, his speed and agility is equal to that of beast, and his senses, while not on DD level (due to the radar sense) are nothing to scoff at. Add in his tech, his light armor, daggers claws, etc. Things might get a little ugly for DD and Electra. His dagger claws, etc. won't be of nearly as much use in this fight as you seem to think. DD and Elektra both have pre-cog, so they'll know exactly what BP and Cap do before they do it. And, via telepathy, they can easily coordinate movements to put BP in a position where cutting his suit apart is cake. Not to mention, they both ALSO possess superhuman stats, so BP won't have much of an edge there.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
That argument tends to get annoying, people forget, Panther had insane durability feats pre-vibranium suit era. Not to mention multiple shots from Iron Fist (who shredded his suit) and was still standing afterwards for a little bit.
Elektra has thrown her sai through kevlar, into a hand, and the strength of the throw was so great that it completley cut off the hand and kevlar and carried it with it. DD is an absolute master at detecting weaknesses in the human body, and, with coordinated movements with Elektra, can easily set up BP for verious nerve strikes, etc. As soon as his suit is gone, his durability won't mean jack.

Panther may or may not know DD and Elektra are gonna go for the seams. Noone is doubting Panthers speed and agility, but i presonally dont think hes more agilie than DD and i have seen many speed feats that say hes well above DD in speed. Elektra is a notch below DD in those areas and i think Panther is too. Just imo.

How often does Panther emlploy this "light armor" he has? I havent seen many instances with it. I believe that daggers thrown or shot will be evaded. I also dont think Panthers fighting skills are on the lvl of DD and Elektra.

Panther is durable yes, but there are ways around it. Pre-Vibranium era, DD left Panther lying on the floor. Cap is a good tactician, but DD is pretty well himslef especially when fighting opponents who are superior to him in whatever way. Im still giving DD and Elektra a slight edge.

DD and Elektra

BP and Cap are just overall stronger. Has Cap fought against precognition?

Strength hardly plays a factor here at all.

I meant better fighters. Electra and DD won't hurt them in ranged combat, if they get close Cap is way too good for them. Panther and Rogers dictate the hows of the combat, they will win.

Elektra and DD are both > Panther, combat wise.

Originally posted by Bentley
I meant better fighters. Electra and DD won't hurt them in ranged combat, if they get close Cap is way too good for them. Panther and Rogers dictate the hows of the combat, they will win.

I dont agree. Cap may be a slightly better fighter than DD, but i think DD is slightly better skilled as well as Elektra. BP is below them all in fighting skills imo. I know DD can hold his own against Cap in h2h and i think he can beat him as well.

They still won't hurt them in ranged combat, is a hell of an advantage to have.

Originally posted by Bentley
They still won't hurt them in ranged combat, is a hell of an advantage to have. All they need to do is cut down BP's suit, then they can take him in ranged combat in a number of ways. As for Cap, it's really just the shield, which isn't that big of a deal.

Dang, I don't know enough of Black Panther to defend his case here. Can't his vibranium suit screw with Daredevil's senses somehow?

Originally posted by Bentley
Dang, I don't know enough of Black Panther to defend his case here. Can't his vibranium suit screw with Daredevil's senses somehow?

Nope.

*keeps quiet becuase he thinks cap could take both DD and Elektra at the same time but doesnt want to piss off his friend jrod*

I dont think this would be close...neither DD or Elektra are usually considered in the same league as BP and CA

Originally posted by King KAM
*keeps quiet becuase he thinks cap could take both DD and Elektra at the same time but doesnt want to piss off his friend jrod*

Cap and BP.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

DD and Elektra both have pre-cog, so they'll know exactly what BP and Cap do before they do it. And, via telepathy, they can easily coordinate movements to put BP in a position where cutting his suit apart is cake. Not to mention, they both ALSO possess superhuman stats, so BP won't have much of an edge there.

Now I dont know about Elecktra but all this stuff you are saying about DD easily being able to out manouver Cap is a load of rubbish. Read a DD comic and see that whenever DD comes up against a top tier MA its like he doesnt have a radar sense, he gets punched in the face just like anybody else. I really dont think his radar sense is going to do **** at all really.

As for Elecktra pre-cog its the same case for DD, just because she has pre-cog doesnt mean shes going to be able to dodge the blows.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

Elektra has thrown her sai through kevlar, into a hand, and the strength of the throw was so great that it completley cut off the hand and kevlar and carried it with it.

Vibranuim isnt like kevlar it absotbds impact.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

DD is an absolute master at detecting weaknesses in the human body, and, with coordinated movements with Elektra, can easily set up BP for verious nerve strikes, etc. As soon as his suit is gone, his durability won't mean jack.

I can see DD detecting the weaknesses is BP suit thats why im going Cap vs DD and BP vs Elecktra.

I dont see how Electra si going to beat BP when hes a top tier MA, her pre-cog probably wont give her a big enough advantage because BP is too fast. BP has protection and his daggers.

Originally posted by Wynndar
I dont think this would be close...neither DD or Elektra are usually considered in the same league as BP and CA

DD and Elektra arent considered in the same league as Cap and BP in terms of what?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Now I dont know about Elecktra but all this stuff you are saying about DD easily being able to out manouver Cap is a load of rubbish. Read a DD comic and see that whenever DD comes up against a top tier MA its like he doesnt have a radar sense, he gets punched in the face just like anybody else. I really dont think his radar sense is going to do **** at all really.

As for Elecktra pre-cog its the same case for DD, just because she has pre-cog doesnt mean shes going to be able to dodge the blows.

Every top MA gets punched in the face. Some take it better than others. Its to make the fights interesting. His radar can or cant play a factor. Elektras pre-cog means that she CAN dodge the blows easily, but most likely wouldnt happen 80% of the time.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Vibranuim isnt like kevlar it absotbds impact.

Yea thats what its suppose to do, but we all know it doesnt always do that. There are ways around it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont see how Electra si going to beat BP when hes a top tier MA, her pre-cog probably wont give her a big enough advantage because BP is too fast. BP has protection and his daggers.

You think Panther is a top tier MA? Elektra yea, but i dont think Panther is.

Cap and BP would take this 7/10 due to range. Close though. Good thread.

I also think Electra would be taken out 1st leaving a Cap BP 2 on one for Daredevil.

Originally posted by King KAM
*keeps quiet becuase he thinks cap could take both DD and Elektra at the same time but doesnt want to piss off his friend jrod*

I understand what youre going thorugh buddy. I feel your loss.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Now I dont know about Elecktra but all this stuff you are saying about DD easily being able to out manouver Cap is a load of rubbish. Read a DD comic and see that whenever DD comes up against a top tier MA its like he doesnt have a radar sense, he gets punched in the face just like anybody else. I really dont think his radar sense is going to do **** at all really. Right... this is a person who bats away bullets due to his radar sense, and was able to roll with Spiderman's punches... Spiderman, who is a f*ck of a lot faster than BP or Captain America. And he can't dodge a punch from BP? Uh-huh.

Originally posted by Alfheim
As for Elecktra pre-cog its the same case for DD, just because she has pre-cog doesnt mean shes going to be able to dodge the blows. Yes. Yes it does. It means she'll know every move he's going to make as soon as he thinks it. And she's more skilled then BP. So, yes. Yes it does.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Vibranuim isnt like kevlar it absotbds impact.
If you actually read my post, you would see I was refferring to BP without his vibranium suit... I was told he was insanley durable without it, and that was my response.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I can see DD detecting the weaknesses is BP suit thats why im going Cap vs DD and BP vs Elecktra. And they would both win.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont see how Electra si going to beat BP when hes a top tier MA, her pre-cog probably wont give her a big enough advantage because BP is too fast. BP has protection and his daggers. He is not a top tier MA. She is. She has pre-cog. She'll know where to shred his suit. She is more skilled. She is also VERY fast.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
He is not a top tier MA. She is. She has pre-cog. She'll know where to shred his suit. She is more skilled. She is also VERY fast.


Prove it

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Right... this is a person who bats away bullets due to his radar sense, and was able to roll with Spiderman's punches... Spiderman, who is a f*ck of a lot faster than BP or Captain America. And he can't dodge a punch from BP? Uh-huh.

Yes. Yes it does. It means she'll know every move he's going to make as soon as he thinks it. And she's more skilled then BP. So, yes. Yes it does.


If you actually read my post, you would see I was refferring to BP without his vibranium suit... I was told he was insanley durable without it, and that was my response.

And they would both win.

He is not a top tier MA. She is. She has pre-cog. She'll know where to shred his suit. She is more skilled. She is also VERY fast.

Last time I checked the Cap kicked Spidey in h2h. I've seen scans of DD being unable to keep with Parker.

Originally posted by Bentley
Last time I checked the Cap kicked Spidey in h2h. I've seen scans of DD being unable to keep with Parker.
DD has actaulyl defeat spidy before if I am not mistaken as well as taking out capt in 3 pannels also.

Originally posted by capt it up
DD has actaulyl defeat spidy before if I am not mistaken as well as taking out capt in 3 pannels also.

Bp also has defeated spidey, and taken down cap in, well 2 panels actually. He was also stated to be just as agile as beast. (superhuman Agility anyone?!)

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Bp also has defeated spidey, and taken down cap in, well 2 panels actually. He was also stated to be just as agile as beast. (superhuman Agility anyone?!) Bp...took out cap???when?Originally posted by capt it up
DD has actaulyl defeat spidy before if I am not mistaken as well as taking out capt in 3 pannels also. he took him out on his first appearance...geesh everyone was doing some HEAVY jobbing...let it go people.

What ever team Cap is in wins this...

Bentley, DD has alsways been able to keep up with Spidey.

And yea lke KAM, id also like to know when BP took out Cap.

Ohh and KAM, DD has defeated Spidey onanother occasion as well.

Originally posted by capt it up
DD has actaulyl defeat spidy before if I am not mistaken as well as taking out capt in 3 pannels also.



Yeah he took out Cap. But there were circumstances.

A. It was in darkness were Cap couldn't see.


B. Cap didn't know who he was fighting against, Daredevil did.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah he took out Cap. But there were circumstances.

A. It was in darkness were Cap couldn't see.


B. Cap didn't know who he was fighting against, Daredevil did.

Actually, Cap did see the figure in the shadows. True he didnt know it was DD, but he clearly saw where the person was standing.

Cap was even about to leap out at the figure. If he couldnt see,i doubt hed leap blindly like that.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Bentley, DD has alsways been able to keep up with Spidey.

And yea lke KAM, id also like to know when BP took out Cap.

Ohh and KAM, DD has defeated Spidey onanother occasion as well. screw him beatin spidey...cap nails spidey all the time, i just want ppl to stop complainin bout cap losin all the time.

and as for BP beating Cap his dad beat an extremley inexperienced cap...extremley inexperienced, PRE-avengers cap, not nearly the Cap we know and love now. he was fighting nazis all the time.... he just wasnt the top MArtial artist cap we know now...

Originally posted by King KAM
screw him beatin spidey...cap nails spidey all the time, i just want ppl to stop complainin bout cap losin all the time.

and as for BP beating Cap his dad beat an extremley inexperienced cap...extremley inexperienced, PRE-avengers cap, not nearly the Cap we know and love now. he was fighting nazis all the time.... he just wasnt the top MArtial artist cap we know now... are yous erous? that experience and training from the nazi si what gave capt his fighting skill he has to day.

Originally posted by King KAM
screw him beatin spidey...cap nails spidey all the time, i just want ppl to stop complainin bout cap losin all the time.

and as for BP beating Cap his dad beat an extremley inexperienced cap...extremley inexperienced, PRE-avengers cap, not nearly the Cap we know and love now. he was fighting nazis all the time.... he just wasnt the top MArtial artist cap we know now...

I was just mentioning that it was more than one time DD beat Spidey. Also, whos complaining about Cap losing all the time? Everyone loses. It happens. Noone is unbeatable.

I do remember the time where Panther's Grandfather beat Cap. I thought there was another instance. I do agree that Cap wasnt the top tier MAwe know and love today, but he wasnt THAT inexperienced when T'chakka(sp?) beat him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually, Cap did see the figure in the shadows. True he didnt know it was DD, but he clearly saw where the person was standing.

Cap was even about to leap out at the figure. If he couldnt see,i doubt hed leap blindly like that.


Yes but Cap holds back on regular folks. He had no idea this was DD.

Yes he saw a figure in the shadows doesn't mean Cap could see well or the persons well. Since it was as you say in the shadows.

Point is Cap was handicapped in that fight. And is not a clean win.

What is with all this hate towards Black Panther? Man, he's being so very underrated lately.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
What is with all this hate towards Black Panther? Man, he's being so very underrated lately.

I think it's because of Hudlin

Originally posted by Metalmanx
What is with all this hate towards Black Panther? Man, he's being so very underrated lately.

it seems like it's the popular thing to do on KMC right now to hate Black Panther.

black panther been very overated as well. alot of things he was said he could do has been proven to not work.

such as his claws were said to be able to turn adamatium into ligued or some non senses and yet that not true it was purely kmc bs.

Originally posted by capt it up
black panther been very overated as well. alot of things he was said he could do has been proven to not work.

such as his claws were said to be able to turn adamatium into ligued or some non senses and yet that not true it was purely kmc bs. His claws are anti-metal... and anti-metal has turned Ultron into... well... nothing...
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah he took out Cap. But there were circumstances.

A. It was in darkness were Cap couldn't see.


B. Cap didn't know who he was fighting against, Daredevil did. You see... I find this very funny... simply because Daredevil can never see...

Originally posted by bigbran
His claws are anti-metal... and anti-metal has turned Ultron into... well... nothing...
You see... I find this very funny... simply because Daredevil can never see...
yes yet black panther claws have done nothing of the sort and if they were able to do such a thing then why has capt chain mail armor neevr been effected or logans claws when he was with black panther fighting a mutated dragon lizard thing in the x-men black panther cross over

Originally posted by capt it up
yes yet black panther claws have done nothing of the sort and if they were able to do such a thing then why has capt chain mail armor neevr been effected or logans claws when he was with black panther fighting a mutated dragon lizard thing in the x-men black panther cross over Because... he might have to slash them to work... also they are way smaller.

Plus, I don't even think he wears them all the time...

Originally posted by capt it up
yes yet black panther claws have done nothing of the sort and if they were able to do such a thing then why has capt chain mail armor neevr been effected or logans claws when he was with black panther fighting a mutated dragon lizard thing in the x-men black panther cross over

When did this occur?

Originally posted by bigbran
Because... he might have to slash them to work... also they are way smaller.

Plus, I don't even think he wears them all the time...
really I don't recall him ever saying he does not.

also slashing would have nothing to do with it since his chain mail is strong, but nothing close to adamtium or capts shield.


This means black panther claws won't been adamaging or going though any thing like adamtium or capts shield.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When did this occur?
in every fight actaully. the recent encounter capt chain mail was fine if black panthers claws really did effect metal then the chain mail would have liquifed right of the bat.

Originally posted by capt it up
really I don't recall him ever saying he does not.

also slashing would have nothing to do with it since his chain mail is strong, but nothing close to adamtium or capts shield.


This means black panther claws won't been adamaging or going though any thing like adamtium or capts shield. Huh...

Also, duribility doesn't matter if it can affect metals right down to a molecular level...
Wait... how do you know how duribile they are?

Originally posted by capt it up
in every fight actaully. the recent encounter capt chain mail was fine if black panthers claws really did effect metal then the chain mail would have liquifed right of the bat.

No no. When did that instance you were referring to happen?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
What is with all this hate towards Black Panther? Man, he's being so very underrated lately.


Thank you, someone with some freaking common sense.

Originally posted by jasonk3
I think it's because of Hudlin

I don't care if no one likes the new series, it doesn't give people the say so to say hes not a Top Tier Martial Artist, he has always been.


Originally posted by masterbruce
it seems like it's the popular thing to do on KMC right now to hate Black Panther.


And I could understand if there were a mad amount of rabid fanboys towards BP like Wolverine and Hulk, but besides me, I think there might be one or two other people on KMC who would call Panther their favorite character, hell he don't even make most peoples top five.

I probably know more about Panther then anybody on KMC, I think I know what he is, and is not capable of.

Originally posted by capt it up
black panther been very overated as well. alot of things he was said he could do has been proven to not work.

such as his claws were said to be able to turn adamatium into ligued or some non senses and yet that not true it was purely kmc bs.

Dude, we are NEVER going to see panther dice up wolverines claws, think about it, Have we ever seen wolverine cut caps head off, chop spidey in two, straight up Gut any TOP tier Martial Artist!??? Have we ever seen it!??

NO

Yet on KMC no one denys he could do it in the first seconds of a fight, Its called PIS. It would never make for a good comic fight if Panther actually used all his skills and Tech when he fought somebody, same with wolverine, he is easily one of the most deadly martial artist on marvel earth (due to his claws) yet he has been handled by Capt, DD, BP etc. You cant deny that anti-metal turned Ultron into mush, and well, BP claws are anti-metal.

So whats the freaking problem!???

Originally posted by King KAM


He was not extremely inexperienced, do you know anything about Military Training son, he became cap in 1940, he fought BP in 1944.

4 Years of Military Combat Training is actually ALOT. don't get me wrong, he wasn't as Capable as he is today. But like Grey Fox said awhile Back. T'Charka did kinda school cap.


Originally posted by jrodslam

And yea lke KAM, id also like to know when BP took out Cap.



http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz19.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz20.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz21.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz22.jpg

Cap Cheap shotted T'challa, in the next scnas the fight continues the next day, it also shows off T'challs new light armor, he used it to go Toe to Toe with doom and also Iron man in recent Issues. Could DD go toe to Toe with Iron man and Doom!?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/08.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/09.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/10.jpg


Again, BP does a complex, Spiderman like maneuver and takes out cap while grabbing his shield bouncing off multiple walls. Yeah, DD's in BP league of Agility though. But even still, I would not call it a "clear" victory, T'challa tells cap he has to stop going so hard, he has to let his wounds heal, So cap "might" still be injured, (we don't know how much) remember just a few days later he seems at full strength in the final Civil war battle.

BP is Superhuman when it comes to speed and agility, I dont know how many times I have to explain this to people, dont know if its lack of interests, BP hate, or just lack of common sense. But I'll do it one more time.

DD, while an amazing athlete, is capable of doing many things, he has trained his body to the peak of his athletic ability, DD is a peak athlete. Remember he has to use his billy club to get around city's, BP doesn't, he jumps and crawls, runs up and down walls, just like spidy.

BP, Was already a peak athlete BEFORE he took the Heart shaped herb, he took down six of wakanda's best warriors and then took out his uncle who was BP at the time (remember his uncle had already taken the Heart shaped herb, he was superhuman already).

This meant T'challa had to be very skilled, and he was, he had been training in combat since he was four years old, he had trained his body to the peak of Athletic limits, he was just as athletic as Batman, or DD.

Besides Wolveine, and maybe one of two others, BP has more combat experience and know how then any other martial artist out there, Cap doesn't count because he was frozen for god knows how many decades.

Think of the movie 300, thats how wankandian warriors are trained. They are also sent out into the wild, just the same.

now after T'challa took the heart shaped herb, things happened to his body that no athletic training could accomplish.

1. The herb heighten his senses of course (we all know that) give him night-vision, super hearing smelling, he could now fell atmospheric disturbances. But best of all, it heighten his kinesthetic sense, this is what allows us to close our eyes, and know where the parts of our bodys are, BP's kinesthetic sense extends outside of his body, to his surrounding, He can like Daredevil (although I will admit not as good) make a map of his surrounding by just feeling it out. He kinda just feels it out, he knows that branch or building ledge is their, never has to look for it and never has a doubt that he can accomplish it.

2. It also heightened his agility and speed. The herb bonded with his ligaments in his joints giving he an unheard of degree of flexibility. This alone, is greater then anything any human could accomplish outside of Human Enhancement.

http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra24ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra37la.jpg



He has superhuman Agility and speed. I think most would agree that Beast, is one of marvels top tier when it comes to agility, much like spidy, nightcrawler etc.....

Beast tells panther he is his equal

http://img93.exs.cx/img93/7373/vsbeast1.jpg

Now many people can keep up with beast, but this does not mean you are his equal. BP is Beast Equal, not only that, BP beats beast in battle.

Bp is one of marvels TOP tier when it comes to agility and speed (human speed that is, I dont want anything thinking I meant he is as fast as quicksilver or something, although he as dodge both quicksilver and whirlwind)


http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4858/wind.jpg

not only dodges him but puts on his suit and jumps out of his coat catching him

http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7089/quickie1.jpg

Pure speed.

Panther speed is also greater then Wolverines, on two occasions, when panther wasn't even trying, wolverine cant help but notice how fast he is..

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8647/vswolv1.jpg

and again

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6645/bpvsxmen2wa.jpg




----------

Phew, I think I made my point, add in BP TECH, his claws, his ability to one hit kill, is Vibranium suit, and you have quite a powerful warrior.

Both BP and CAP are leagues above DD and Electra in terms of combat strategy and know how.

They take this fight, like it or not.

Originally posted by capt it up
in every fight actaully. the recent encounter capt chain mail was fine if black panthers claws really did effect metal then the chain mail would have liquifed right of the bat.

WHat are you talking about, BP and cap have fought, four times I believe (cant remember exaclty)

ANd not once has panther turned his claws against cap. And I know they didnt fight during priest run, and only once during Hudlins, and not once did panther turns his claws against cap!!??

Originally posted by Apolloknight
WHat are you talking about, BP and cap have fought, four times I believe (cant remember exaclty)

ANd not once has panther turned his claws against cap. And I know they didnt fight during priest run, and only once during Hudlins, and not once did panther turns his claws against cap!!??

he had his claws and the point is anti-metal is supose to liquife metal thats close to it however this can not ben the case wil BP claws sicne it did nothing to capts chain mail ever. It would also destroy his suit, but it does not hmmm. You know what it probly only has trace amounts that allows the claws to cut through most all metal however it does not have enough to allow it to screw up metals around it. That would mean he does not nearly have enough anti- metal to damage any indestructable metal.

Originally posted by capt it up
he had his claws and the point is anti-metal is supose to liquife metal thats close to it however this can not ben the case wil BP claws sicne it did nothing to capts chain mail ever. It would also destroy his suit, but it does not hmmm. You know what it probly only has trace amounts that allows the claws to cut through most all metal however it does not have enough to allow it to screw up metals around it. That would mean he does not nearly have enough anti- metal to damage any indestructable metal.


Dude, did he slash him?

Anti-metal doenst liquidfy metals around it, it has to come in contact with it.

What the hell are you talking about?

hahahahahahahahahahaha.....

cap says himself that he wasnt going hard.... good scans cool fight, but not plausible in court kiddo

Originally posted by King KAM
hahahahahahahahahahaha.....

cap says himself that he wasnt going hard.... good scans cool fight, but not plausible in court kiddo


NONE of BP and capts fights are.

I said this a few days ago, they have never had a fight free of PIS/CIS!!?

EVER...............

I dont bring it up, you do, or other do.

"Man cap schooled panther during the contest of champions blah blah blah"

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thank you, someone with some freaking common sense.



I don't care if no one likes the new series, it doesn't give people the say so to say hes not a Top Tier Martial Artist, he has always been.





And I could understand if there were a mad amount of rabid fanboys towards BP like Wolverine and Hulk, but besides me, I think there might be one or two other people on KMC who would call Panther their favorite character, hell he don't even make most peoples top five.

I probably know more about Panther then anybody on KMC, I think I know what he is, and is not capable of.



Dude, we are NEVER going to see panther dice up wolverines claws, think about it, Have we ever seen wolverine cut caps head off, chop spidey in two, straight up Gut any TOP tier Martial Artist!??? Have we ever seen it!??

NO

Yet on KMC no one denys he could do it in the first seconds of a fight, Its called PIS. It would never make for a good comic fight if Panther actually used all his skills and Tech when he fought somebody, same with wolverine, he is easily one of the most deadly martial artist on marvel earth (due to his claws) yet he has been handled by Capt, DD, BP etc. You cant deny that anti-metal turned Ultron into mush, and well, BP claws are anti-metal.

So whats the freaking problem!???



He was not extremely inexperienced, do you know anything about Military Training son, he became cap in 1940, he fought BP in 1944.

4 Years of Military Combat Training is actually ALOT. don't get me wrong, he wasn't as Capable as he is today. But like Grey Fox said awhile Back. T'Charka did kinda school cap.




http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz19.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz20.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz21.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz22.jpg

Cap Cheap shotted T'challa, in the next scnas the fight continues the next day, it also shows off T'challs new light armor, he used it to go Toe to Toe with doom and also Iron man in recent Issues. Could DD go toe to Toe with Iron man and Doom!?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/08.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/09.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/10.jpg


Again, BP does a complex, Spiderman like maneuver and takes out cap while grabbing his shield bouncing off multiple walls. Yeah, DD's in BP league of Agility though. But even still, I would not call it a "clear" victory, T'challa tells cap he has to stop going so hard, he has to let his wounds heal, So cap "might" still be injured, (we don't know how much) remember just a few days later he seems at full strength in the final Civil war battle.

BP is Superhuman when it comes to speed and agility, I dont know how many times I have to explain this to people, dont know if its lack of interests, BP hate, or just lack of common sense. But I'll do it one more time.

DD, while an amazing athlete, is capable of doing many things, he has trained his body to the peak of his athletic ability, DD is a peak athlete. Remember he has to use his billy club to get around city's, BP doesn't, he jumps and crawls, runs up and down walls, just like spidy.

BP, Was already a peak athlete BEFORE he took the Heart shaped herb, he took down six of wakanda's best warriors and then took out his uncle who was BP at the time (remember his uncle had already taken the Heart shaped herb, he was superhuman already).

This meant T'challa had to be very skilled, and he was, he had been training in combat since he was four years old, he had trained his body to the peak of Athletic limits, he was just as athletic as Batman, or DD.

Besides Wolveine, and maybe one of two others, BP has more combat experience and know how then any other martial artist out there, Cap doesn't count because he was frozen for god knows how many decades.

Think of the movie 300, thats how wankandian warriors are trained. They are also sent out into the wild, just the same.

now after T'challa took the heart shaped herb, things happened to his body that no athletic training could accomplish.

1. The herb heighten his senses of course (we all know that) give him night-vision, super hearing smelling, he could now fell atmospheric disturbances. But best of all, it heighten his kinesthetic sense, this is what allows us to close our eyes, and know where the parts of our bodys are, BP's kinesthetic sense extends outside of his body, to his surrounding, He can like Daredevil (although I will admit not as good) make a map of his surrounding by just feeling it out. He kinda just feels it out, he knows that branch or building ledge is their, never has to look for it and never has a doubt that he can accomplish it.

2. It also heightened his agility and speed. The herb bonded with his ligaments in his joints giving he an unheard of degree of flexibility. This alone, is greater then anything any human could accomplish outside of Human Enhancement.

http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra24ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra37la.jpg



He has superhuman Agility and speed. I think most would agree that Beast, is one of marvels top tier when it comes to agility, much like spidy, nightcrawler etc.....

Beast tells panther he is his equal

http://img93.exs.cx/img93/7373/vsbeast1.jpg

Now many people can keep up with beast, but this does not mean you are his equal. BP is Beast Equal, not only that, BP beats beast in battle.

Bp is one of marvels TOP tier when it comes to agility and speed (human speed that is, I dont want anything thinking I meant he is as fast as quicksilver or something, although he as dodge both quicksilver and whirlwind)


http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4858/wind.jpg

not only dodges him but puts on his suit and jumps out of his coat catching him

http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7089/quickie1.jpg

Pure speed.

Panther speed is also greater then Wolverines, on two occasions, when panther wasn't even trying, wolverine cant help but notice how fast he is..

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8647/vswolv1.jpg

and again

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6645/bpvsxmen2wa.jpg




----------

Phew, I think I made my point, add in BP TECH, his claws, his ability to one hit kill, is Vibranium suit, and you have quite a powerful warrior.

Both BP and CAP are leagues above DD and Electra in terms of combat strategy and know how.

They take this fight, like it or not.

Well, you said everything I was going to, and then some.

And since I didn't vote yet, I give this to BP and Cap.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
NONE of BP and capts fights are.

I said this a few days ago, they have never had a fight free of PIS/CIS!!?

EVER...............

I dont bring it up, you do, or other do.

"Man cap schooled panther during the contest of champions blah blah blah" they bother held back in contest of champions and BP got pwned with the quickness.

when they fought in the old avengers, cap nailed him damn good also.


BP in new armor barely got the upper hand on an injured, joking, captain america.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Dude, did he slash him?

Anti-metal doenst liquidfy metals around it, it has to come in contact with it.

What the hell are you talking about?
actaully it does. when they did it to ultron it was altering its molicules from afar it was not touch ultron till he punch the alter molicules I think it was hank who did it.

Originally posted by capt it up
actaully it does. when they did it to ultron it was altering its molicules from afar it was not touch ultron till he punch the alter molicules I think it was hank who did it.

Shut up

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chip425xl.jpg


Damages Iron man, freaking Iron man, who is scared and makes a suit designed to take down T'challa, would cap, DD or wolverine get such respect!?

http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsman2.jpg

Edit

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Shut up

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chip425xl.jpg


Damages Iron man, freaking Iron man, who is scared and makes a suit designed to take down T'challa, would cap, DD or wolverine get such respect!?

http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsman2.jpg
shut up?

your first scann only further proved my point that it can only damage non breakable metals when he slashes them.



iron man is scared of a man who country owns the best technology in the world he afraid black panther willg et smart and make a suit like his.

magneto stated wolverine has his greatest rival and he been stated as unstopable while in a beserker rage. It's just a bunch fo words though he is dam ahrd to take out while berserker.


second scann im not even sure what the hell your trying to prove with it

Originally posted by capt it up
shut up?

your first scann only further proved my point that it can only damage non breakable metals when he slashes them.






!?

Because we all know T'challa was trying to kill Tony in that fight and not just slow him down.

Wow, you, are, unbelievable......Stop downplaying Everything I have shown you.

You said he had no effect to Caps Chain mail armor.

I gave you proof it does effect Indestrutable metals, yet you still deny it.

Originally posted by capt it up





second scann im not even sure what the hell your trying to prove with it


Sorry let me spell it out for you, you seem kinda slow today.

Iron man knew T'challas claws would Dice him up, or liquidfy his armor, Therefore, he create a armor that reacts to his claws, so he wont be cut up.

Get it!?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
!?

Because we all know T'challa was trying to kill Tony in that fight and not just slow him down.

Wow, you, are, unbelievable......Stop downplaying Everything I have shown you.

You said he had no effect to Caps Chain mail armor.

I gave you proof it does effect Indestrutable metals, yet you still deny it.
? lol you missing my point ahahahah

It can cut metals that are no unbreakalble however it can not break unbreakable metals. When they destroy ultron with out touch him his metal man to break down on a molecular level. Now if panther had this much anti- metal capt chain mail would breka down with out him touching it so would black panthers suit.

The claws have only a little and I was never saying he could not cut the chain mail.

what proof did you give that it breaks unbreakable metals? Tony armor is not unbreakable and never has been.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Sorry let me spell it out for you, you seem kinda slow today.

Iron man knew T'challas claws would Dice him up, or liquidfy his armor, Therefore, he create a armor that reacts to his claws, so he wont be cut up.

Get it!?
iron mans not even in that scan and there talking about water lol

Originally posted by capt it up
iron mans not even in that scan and there talking about water lol


Do people actually waste time debating with you!?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Right... this is a person who bats away bullets due to his radar sense, and was able to roll with Spiderman's punches...

Yeah thats right and still managed to get beaten up badly by the Punisher and Kingpin. Why, because eventhough he can bat bullets away when he comes up against an MA expert it really doesnt do that much.


Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
and was able to roll with Spiderman's punches...

Who was pulling his punches and if he was using full force punches would have probably killed him.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

Spiderman, who is a f*ck of a lot faster than BP or Captain America.


No he is not. Spiderman is faster than Cap and Bp but not by a great deal, they all have similar dodging feats. Besides eventhough heroes like Cap are not as fast as Spiderman they give Spiderman problems because they are MA experts. Spiderman has clearly stated that he cant take Cap in H2H and even a robot clone of Spiderman said the same thing. So by that logic Cap should be more dangerous to DD than Spiderman.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

And he can't dodge a punch from BP? Uh-huh.

Yes he can, but your making it sound like because he has radar sense he can dodge BP easily, which is rubbish.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

Yes. Yes it does. It means she'll know every move he's going to make as soon as he thinks it.

Well if its like DD radar sense, it wont really make a difference....as I explained earlier.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

And she's more skilled then BP. So, yes. Yes it does.

Well I think Apolloknight made a good case thats shes not.



Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

If you actually read my post, you would see I was refferring to BP without his vibranium suit... I was told he was insanley durable without it, and that was my response.

Ok.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

And they would both win.

If you say so.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

He is not a top tier MA. She is.

I think Apolloknight proved that he is.


Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

She has pre-cog.

Which doesnt really mean that much at all.


Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

She'll know where to shred his suit.

Well if DD tells her yeah. Besides I thought she could just detect what her opponent is going to do next, not detailed telepathy while fighting.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph

She is more skilled. She is also VERY fast.

BPs not skilled or fast either?

Originally posted by Apolloknight




http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz19.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz20.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz21.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz22.jpg

Cap Cheap shotted T'challa, in the next scnas the fight continues the next day, it also shows off T'challs new light armor, he used it to go Toe to Toe with doom and also Iron man in recent Issues. Could DD go toe to Toe with Iron man and Doom!?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/08.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/09.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/10.jpg




Is that Hudlin?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Do people actually waste time debating with you!?
I would not say it a waste of time thats rather harsh.


you can think what you want if you like make a thread about and it see for your self

Originally posted by King KAM
hahahahahahahahahahaha.....

cap says himself that he wasnt going hard.... good scans cool fight, but not plausible in court kiddo


Yup BP also stated Cap needed to heal his wounds I sure he's reffering to the Ironman/explosion beat down he endured.

Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.

And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.

I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.

And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.

I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.

Ok right.....so you have seen Apolloknights Bp scans right?

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.

And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.

I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.

I think you're underestimating Black Panther here. He could definitely hold his own against DD or Elecktra.

I would actually give DD the slight majority over Cap. But BP the majority over Elektra.

However, if they were to switch opponents, BP takes out Daredevil, while Cap takes out Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes but Cap holds back on regular folks. He had no idea this was DD.

Yes he saw a figure in the shadows doesn't mean Cap could see well or the persons well. Since it was as you say in the shadows.

Point is Cap was handicapped in that fight. And is not a clean win.

Cap like all other heroes hold back. He had no idea it was DD, but that doesnt mean he held back even extra.

After seeing Beast layed out, he saw the figure and threw the shield. It was obviously to take down the intruder. Cap saw the figure well, just not the face or costume.

Cap wasnt handicapped at all in that fight. He knew there was in intruder. He saw that the intruder creamed Beast. The threw his shield hoping to knock the intruder out. Then when that didnt work and Herc got taken down, he decided to jump at the intruder. I wouldnt say Cap was handicapped at all there. He knew what he was doing.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I would actually give DD the slight majority over Cap.


How????

Originally posted by jrodslam
Cap like all other heroes hold back. He had no idea it was DD, but that doesnt mean he held back even extra.

After seeing Beast layed out, he saw the figure and threw the shield. It was obviously to take down the intruder. Cap saw the figure well, just not the face or costume.

Cap wasnt handicapped at all in that fight. He knew there was in intruder. He saw that the intruder creamed Beast. The threw his shield hoping to knock the intruder out. Then when that didnt work and Herc got taken down, he decided to jump at the intruder. I wouldnt say Cap was handicapped at all there. He knew what he was doing.

What are we talking about this old old old school event? How the **** does DD get to take out Hercules?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I would actually give DD the slight majority over Cap. But BP the majority over Elektra.

However, if they were to switch opponents, BP takes out Daredevil, while Cap takes out Elektra.

so your hierarchy is:

BP > DD > Cap > Elektra?

Originally posted by masterbruce
so your hierarchy is:

BP > DD > Cap > Elektra?

Which is ridiculous when the comics imply something like;

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > Black Panther

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is ridiculous when the comics imply something like;

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > Black Panther

Have you got any proof that Elektra is better than BP?

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is ridiculous when the comics imply something like;

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > Black Panther

did you look at apollo's scans showing DD taking down Cap and Wolverine?

Originally posted by masterbruce
did you look at apollo's scans showing DD taking down Cap and Wolverine?

You know what I mean?

I've read T'Challa's entire respect thread. Multiple times. And I own several Black Panther comics, both during Priest's and Hudlin's run.

I've seen it.

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > T'Challa.

Originally posted by Soljer
I've read T'Challa's entire respect thread. Multiple times. And I own several Black Panther comics, both during Priest's and Hudlin's run.

I've seen it.

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > T'Challa.

Well ok if hes been able to outspeed Wolverine twice how is Elecktra going to beat BP, when Wolverine is better than Elecktra?

Originally posted by Soljer
I've read T'Challa's entire respect thread. Multiple times. And I own several Black Panther comics, both during Priest's and Hudlin's run.

I've seen it.

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > T'Challa.

ok, so we know BP can hang with Cap and even take him out sometimes, and that he is faster and maybe more skilled than wolverine and as agile as beast.

What makes you think DD or Elektra can take him out?

Originally posted by masterbruce
ok, so we know BP can hang with Cap and even take him out sometimes, and that he is faster and maybe more skilled than wolverine and as agile as beast.

What makes you think DD or Elektra can take him out?

*stand behind masterbruce* Yeah!

Originally posted by Alfheim
How????

Because while Cap is the better fighter of the two, I believe DD to be slightly more refined in his skill. Add to that his radar sense, superior agility and reflexes, I think he can beat Cap for the majority.

Originally posted by masterbruce
so your hierarchy is:

BP > DD > Cap > Elektra?

No, not exactly. Thing is, it's incredibly difficult to rank them in such a way like that. For example, while I think Cap and BP are essentially equal, I believe DD can take Cap but not BP. It's all about their specific power sets and abilities.

It's not like BP is any kind of slouch in the fighting department either. Hell, all of his bios state (and I think I may have seen this in a comic once, too, but I can't remember which comic) that he's a MASTER of all unarmed combat and a master of MOST armed combat.

Doesn't that sound a lot like our Captain America?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz19.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz20.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz21.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz22.jpg

Cap Cheap shotted T'challa, in the next scnas the fight continues the next day, it also shows off T'challs new light armor, he used it to go Toe to Toe with doom and also Iron man in recent Issues. Could DD go toe to Toe with Iron man and Doom!?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/08.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/09.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/10.jpg

I first set of scans didnt really need to be posted. They arent saying much, so no comment on those. As for the second set, you and BP already mentioned how Capwas still wounded from the CW battle. Thus the scan is inconclusive and doesnt support your arguement. Cap also mentioned had it been a REAL fight......

Now as far as DD fighting Doom, yea he has. He lost, but he was weakened from a previous ballte before that, so its inconclusive as well. He did outsmart Doom though. I dont think hes ever tussled with iron Man. He has tussled and held his own with Namor, Thor, Thing and a Asguardian warrior. Hulk too for a while. Hes also beat his fare share of powerhouses as well. ABC logic is pretty irrelevant here. Regardless of who each have fought in the past, DD has layed BP out.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
BP is Superhuman when it comes to speed and agility, I dont know how many times I have to explain this to people, dont know if its lack of interests, BP hate, or just lack of common sense. But I'll do it one more time.

DD, while an amazing athlete, is capable of doing many things, he has trained his body to the peak of his athletic ability, DD is a peak athlete. Remember he has to use his billy club to get around city's, BP doesn't, he jumps and crawls, runs up and down walls, just like spidy.

I guess you or whoever else can call it lack of common sense on my part, because nothing about Panthers speed and agility says Superhuman to me. Cap, DD, Panther, Wolvie, Fist, etc shows nothing in speed and agility that matches Spiderman. His is superhuman. Others listed are peak/enhanced as i see it.

DD may get around the city via using billy club, however he also gets around by running/jumping rooftops and swinging(hands only) or jumping on flagpoles. If DD has claws, im sure hed be able to run and climb on walls as well. He doesnt need it however.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
BP, Was already a peak athlete BEFORE he took the Heart shaped herb, he took down six of wakanda's best warriors and then took out his uncle who was BP at the time (remember his uncle had already taken the Heart shaped herb, he was superhuman already).

This meant T'challa had to be very skilled, and he was, he had been training in combat since he was four years old, he had trained his body to the peak of Athletic limits, he was just as athletic as Batman, or DD.

Noone is saying Panther isnt skilled or even athletic. You mention he was just as athletic as Bats and DD before tasking the herb, yet now with it, he seems to be only on the same level as them. Nothing Panther does athletic wise puts him above DD in agility. At least nothing that ive seen thus far.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Besides Wolveine, and maybe one of two others, BP has more combat experience and know how then any other martial artist out there, Cap doesn't count because he was frozen for god knows how many decades.

Having a bunch of combat experience is just that. Experiene. It doesnt mean hes a better fighter or more skilled than blah blah blah.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
2. It also heightened his agility and speed. The herb bonded with his ligaments in his joints giving he an unheard of degree of flexibility. This alone, is greater then anything any human could accomplish outside of Human Enhancement.

http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra24ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra37la.jpg

He has superhuman Agility and speed. I think most would agree that Beast, is one of marvels top tier when it comes to agility, much like spidy, nightcrawler etc.....

Beast tells panther he is his equal

http://img93.exs.cx/img93/7373/vsbeast1.jpg

DD is pretty fast and agile himself.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1597/daredevil211144rxjk6.th.jpghttp://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7663/daredevil211158lmtu4.th.jpg http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/133/daredevil377flyingblindze9.th.jpghttp://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4357/daredevil377flyingblindkd7.th.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9947/daredevilannual0806fg0.th.jpg

Hes dodged lasers that have moved at the speed of thought. Thor and Spiderman has even commented on DD's speed/reflexes.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Not many people can keep up with beast, but this does not mean you are his equal. BP is Beast Equal, not only that, BP beats beast in battle.

Panther now gets welcomed the the "Ive beat Beast in battle!" club.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Panther speed is also greater then Wolverines, on two occasions, when panther wasn't even trying, wolverine cant help but notice how fast he is..

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8647/vswolv1.jpg

and again

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6645/bpvsxmen2wa.jpg

Nice. Another club panther joins.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1010/ddvswolvienm4.th.png

and again

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2244/ddvswolvieka7.th.png

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Phew, I think I made my point, add in BP TECH, his claws, his ability to one hit kill, is Vibranium suit, and you have quite a powerful warrior.

Both BP and CAP are leagues above DD and Electra in terms of combat strategy and know how.

They take this fight, like it or not.

Everyone here has the ability to one hit kill. What is Panthers standard equipment? An also, like statd before, the suit can be worked around.

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is ridiculous when the comics imply something like;

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > Black Panther


Prove it!!

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok if hes been able to outspeed Wolverine twice how is Elecktra going to beat BP, when Wolverine is better than Elecktra?

Thats what Im trying to figure out!?

Originally posted by Metalmanx




No, not exactly. Thing is, it's incredibly difficult to rank them in such a way like that. For example, while I think Cap and BP are essentially equal, I believe DD can take Cap but not BP. It's all about their specific power sets and abilities.


Sorry for all the post.

But I would %155 agree with this.

When you talk about top martial artist like these guys, Its kinda dumb to say, "Well this person is more skilled then that person, blah blah blah so he wins"

Essentially, you have to start looking deeper, While All four of the fighters are arguably around the same level (we could go at this forever to and never come to agreement on who is more skilled) what else do they have to offer.

Cap= his shield, Peak Human
DD= Billy club, senses, Peak Athlete
Electra= minor telepathy sai's, Peak Athlete
BP= Senses, Anti-metal claws, vibranium suit, energy daggers, Superhuman Agility and speed


Hmmm....

lol

The Black Panther is far more agile than Electra.
He also has a wider range of overall combat knowledge (Acrobatics, Tumbling, every major form of Martial Arts, Demolitions, a expert Marksman and a weapons expert) and can manipulate illusions.

This easily places him in DD's range IMHO.

Have no doubts that Electra would be the 1st to go down in this fight, whether facing Captain A or BP.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Because while Cap is the better fighter of the two, I believe DD to be slightly more refined in his skill. Add to that his radar sense, superior agility and reflexes, I think he can beat Cap for the majority.



How the hell is DD going to beat Cap for the majority when his radar sense hasnt done **** for him against Kingpin and some Punisher fights?

When DD fights top tier MAs all his radar sense does is give him a slight speed advantage and thats not enough to give him the majority.

Originally posted by Alfheim
How the hell is DD going to beat Cap for the majority when his radar sense hasnt done **** for him against Kingpin and some Punisher fights?

When DD fights top tier MAs all his radar sense does is give him a slight speed advantage and thats not enough to give him the majority.

The hell are you talking about? His radar sense gives him a big advantage against pretty much all of his opponents. Sure. Kingpin and Punisher have hit him. I'm not denying that. They've also hit Spider-Man with his spider-sense. I understand that in comics, the hero has to get hit sometimes, even by inferior opponents.

Against someone like Cap, DD's radar sense would be the perfect weapon to use in battle.

Don't get your panties in a twist, I still think Cap and BP win.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Who was pulling his punches and if he was using full force punches would have probably killed him.

Spidey definitely wasn't pulling his punches when he thought DD was some evil robot and lunged at him with a punch.

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is ridiculous when the comics imply something like;

Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > Black Panther
I don't think comics imply this at all. These guys are usually shown stalemating each other in their confrontations.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
His radar sense gives him a big advantage against pretty much all of his opponents.

Not against top MAs he gets hit...alot.

1 BP pwns Elektra with his manroot
2 DD pwns Cap with difficulty
3 BP snarls DD runs screaming

CA and BP for the win! A no-brainer........

Lol clearly know one here has ever read elektra.........


She has moved so fast punisher did not even see her steal his gun from him and he was standing in front of her............

She also could read the minds of her oponets and put false images into them.


She easily the toughest opponet here and has clearly enoughy skill to take black panther down.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Lol clearly know one here has ever read elektra.........


She has moved so fast punisher did not even see her steal his gun from him and he was standing in front of her............


Absolute crap. Punisher has deflected Caps shield and DDs billy club how the hell is Elecktra so fast she can do that to him? Hes also countered a suprise attack from cap.


Originally posted by Battlehammer

She also could read the minds of her oponets and put false images into them.

She easily the toughest opponet here and has clearly enoughy skill to take black panther down.


Explain the circumstances in which this happened.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Lol clearly know one here has ever read elektra.........


She has moved so fast punisher did not even see her steal his gun from him and he was standing in front of her............



And panther is fast enough to jump inside invisible womens force field before she can even bring it up.

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/5405/ff4.jpg

Originally posted by Battlehammer

She also could read the minds of her oponets and put false images into them.


She easily the toughest opponet here and has clearly enoughy skill to take black panther down.


Unless she has cable level telepathy, she aint getting inside his head.

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conceal3km.jpg

Besides Black panthers physical and spiritual sense are far to sharp for ninja tricks.

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alienprese6yb.jpg
http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sense21xb.jpg
http://img49.exs.cx/img49/5764/storm3.jpg

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And panther is fast enough to jump inside invisible womens force field before she can even bring it up.

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/5405/ff4.jpg



Damn...thats sick. I never knew he was that badass I would put on DD level of speed. I think though I would still put BP on enhanced level and not superhuman due to the red skull fight.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Damn...thats sick. I never knew he was that badass I would put on DD level of speed. I think though I would still put BP on enhanced level and not superhuman due to the red skull fight.

Was that the fight where red skull enhanced himself?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Was that the fight where red skull enhanced himself?

Er.....*gets the feeling hes going to look stupid* ...did he?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er.....*gets the feeling hes going to look stupid* ...did he?

Well, i cant really say to what degree, all the respect thread says is that its "Panther vs. Red Skull (who physically enhanced himself)".

So yes he was, as to what degree, I'm not sure.

Originally posted by guy222
Capt/T'Challa

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Well, i cant really say to what degree, all the respect thread says is that its "Panther vs. Red Skull (who physically enhanced himself)".

So yes he was, as to what degree, I'm not sure.

...yeah I mean is this the one were tchalla takes his gloves off and RS is pissed because he doesnt want to get touched by a black man?

Originally posted by Alfheim
...yeah I mean is this the one were tchalla takes his gloves off and RS is pissed because he doesnt want to get touched by a black man?

yup.

Cap n' BP buddy. Elektra's alright, but I dont think she's ready for the King.

A better fight might be Cap and the Falcon vs DD and Elektra.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And panther is fast enough to jump inside invisible womens force field before she can even bring it up.

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/5405/ff4.jpg




Unless she has cable level telepathy, she aint getting inside his head.

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conceal3km.jpg

Besides Black panthers physical and spiritual sense are far to sharp for ninja tricks.

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alienprese6yb.jpg
http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sense21xb.jpg
http://img49.exs.cx/img49/5764/storm3.jpg

WoW man,
Just
WOW

With all this scans , him manhandling Silver Surfer makes total sense

Originally posted by Apolloknight
yup.

O never mind, anyway we dont know how enhanced Red Skull was. I think I saw a panel with Cap Koed but I dont know how he got that way.

Daredevil is the weak link. Cp and Panther win.

Cap and BP take the majority.


Electra is the downfall for DD.

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.

And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.

I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.



I don't see Electra defeating Black Panther.

Wow...Appolo has really made everyone not voting for panther and cap look like asses.

BTW Jumping on surfers board is above human level agility

BP and Cap

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Well, i cant really say to what degree, all the respect thread says is that its "Panther vs. Red Skull (who physically enhanced himself)".

So yes he was, as to what degree, I'm not sure.


He was enhanced by medical antibiotics so that the Red dusk gas doesn't affect him. But in story it wasn't stated he was enhanced outside of Cap's cloned SSS body.

Now in a bio it does stated the Red Scull enhanced himself by known and unknown means for longer life and increased strength through his life. But it could be referencing the SSS body(since duplication of the SSS is unknown and the known means well by the Red gas/medical antibiotics.

But I don't think he was said to be outside of the SSS enhancement.

I think teamwork is being ignored as a factor here. If DD's and Elektra's teamwork has been established, I think that would prove a significant factor here. They've obviously both been taught by Stick and have a very deep personal and spiritual connection. But I can only remember a few fights where they actually fight side-by-side. Against Morbius and then the Snakeroot in 'Fall From Grace,' and against Bullseye in 'The Murdock Papers.' Obviously, they must have fought side-by-side more often than that. Any DD experts know how well Daredevil and Elektra work as a team? Because my initial impression is that Daredevil and Black Widow actually have more experience as a team than these two since they were partners for years. But I could be wrong.

If they only fought side-by side a few times, and nothing demonstrates a real advantage in teamwork between the two, then I don't think their similar tutleage under Stick or intimate knowledge of each other makes a big difference against Cap and Black Panther. After all, they've also trained together in the Avenger's Mansion. Maybe not as a duo very often, but enough that they're familiar with each other's fighting styles and moves.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But I can only remember a few fights where they actually fight side-by-side. Against Morbius and then the Snakeroot in 'Fall From Grace,' What issue was this? I'd like to read that.

^ Issues #319-325.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Issues #319-325. Did they kicks Morbius' @ss?

^ Sort of? Morbius was mainly trying to escape the two when they confronted him, even resorting to his distending joints trick, but Daredevil held onto him with his modified billy club and Elektra knocked him unconscious with the butts of her sais. Not much more than that as I recall.