Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who wins? if superman can do it y not silver surfer???

Written at normal power levels, Darkseid wins 10/10.

Because of the Omega Beam and the countless other feats possessed by Darkseid gives this to him without a second thought.

does the omega beam work against Surfer?
can't the power cosmic counteract it?

no

to which part, first or second?

Originally posted by jesserw21
who wins? if superman can do it y not silver surfer???
Superman is protected from total destruction of the Omega's by the source. Surfer is not.
DS100/10

This isn't DCU, the Source is not the source.
Omega Beam is just another weapon.

it depends. apart from superman being stronger. remember anything superman could do silver surfer could do better and then some. and now with his upgrade he is more then a match for most.

there is no debate here, Darkseid would wipe him from existence without any trouble

Is superman stronger?
why?
what's the basis for that assumption?


just never seen Surfer stretched, with regards to strength. he doesn't require much strength, his powers being way too dynamic to ever necessitate physical entanglement.

i think u should put excil 87 surfer up agaisn't darkseid

This shouldn't even be a debate. DS beats Thanos 8-10/10. Why would surfer even upgraded be a bother?

Originally posted by Kurash
there is no debate here, Darkseid would wipe him from existence without any trouble
there was no explanation there ^^.

how can a character wipe another character from 'existence', if that character doesn't even exist in a shared realm.

Originally posted by janus77
there was no explanation there ^^.

how can a character wipe another character from 'existence', if that character doesn't even exist in a shared realm.

ok ill explain

the OE

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
This shouldn't even be a debate. DS beats Thanos 8-10/10. Why would surfer even upgraded be a bother?
ACTUALLY, ....SURFER DOES HAVE A .....ah never mind

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
This shouldn't even be a debate. DS beats Thanos 8-10/10. Why would surfer even upgraded be a bother?

In your opinion.

Originally posted by janus77
This isn't DCU, the Source is not the source.
Omega Beam is just another weapon.
WTF I guess since this isn't the marvel U, the power cosmic is just another weapon as well.

Originally posted by Soljer
In your opinion.

No, In feats.

Originally posted by jesserw21
who wins? if superman can do it y not silver surfer???

SS. Can someone tell me about this True Darkseid?

Depends on the version. If its "I make sky fathers cry Darkseid" than SS is destroyed without a second thought. If its "Superman, please don't come near be with that can of Vaseline Darkseid" than SS.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No, In feats.

You misunderstand, I never said that I disagreed. However, the way you present that is inaccurate.

The Darkseid vs. Thanos thread was as heated as the Spiderman vs. Wolverine thread.

You spamming things like "Darkseid beats Thanos 8/10, why would he have trouble with the Surfer?" as if it were irrefutable fact is as ill-advised as Capt it up going around saying "Wolverine beats Spiderman 8/10, why would he have trouble with Green Goblin?"

Originally posted by Big Sexy
If its "Superman, please don't come near be with that can of Vaseline Darkseid" than SS.
whoa there, what book was that?eek2

Originally posted by Priest
whoa there, what book was that?eek2 Batman/Superman

Originally posted by Soljer
You misunderstand, I never said that I disagreed. However, the way you present that is inaccurate.

The Darkseid vs. Thanos thread was as heated as the Spiderman vs. Wolverine thread.

You spamming things like "Darkseid beats Thanos 8/10, why would he have trouble with the Surfer?" as if it were irrefutable fact is as ill-advised as Capt it up going around saying "Wolverine beats Spiderman 8/10, why would he have trouble with Green Goblin?"

Actually, it was more recently hotly debated that DS would beat Odin. So the forum's stance has shifted to DS true power lvls. I dont think there was a good understanding of exactly what DS is able to do when people were debating that THanos thread. People seem to forget that DS has always been able to take beings who are more powerful than he and add thier powers to his own. ALWAYS has had this power. Thanos being less powerful, certainly would fall victim to the same fate. Or just get erased. Since erasure isn't really death.

If SS uses his damn speed, he has a chance.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
If SS uses his damn speed, he has a chance.

NOt a chance in hell. DS has uber Superspeed and reflexes of his own and Godly senses. THe only thing Surfer using his speed would do is aid surfer in running very far and fast. And I doubt the surfer can even out speed the OE beams.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NOt a chance in hell. DS has uber Superspeed and reflexes of his own and Godly senses. THe only thing Surfer using his speed would do is aid surfer in running very far and fast. And I doubt the surfer can even out speed the OE beams.
i accually like to see some exaples of DS using his uber SuperSpeed and reflexes. I wonder if he can beat flash in a race imo.

Originally posted by Priest
i accually like to see some exaples of DS using his uber SuperSpeed and reflexes. I wonder if he can beat flash in a race imo.

DS would never even do that. But check out The Orion Series when DS and Orion are fighting using universal karate and superspeed to beat the crap out of each other. DS wouldn't race the flash. He would just teleport to the end of the race of Kill flash with the OE and declare himself the winner

Originally posted by Nikkolas
If SS uses his damn speed, he has a chance.

Nothing can dodge the omega Beam I once maked a thread about the subject, it turned out that none except Batman from JLU cartoons has been capable of accomplish that feat.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Nothing can dodge the omega Beam I once maked a thread about the subject, it turned out that none except Batman from JLU cartoons has been capable of accomplish that feat.

I liked it also

To be honest barring the OE (that won't erase Surfer anyways so no need to bring it up), DS is still more than a match to Surfer.

Yes he is in every way I think we can think of.

Originally posted by Priest
i accually like to see some exaples of DS using his uber SuperSpeed and reflexes. I wonder if he can beat flash in a race imo.

I dont have the issue numbers on me, but DS speed blitzed the entire Pre-crisis JLA/JSU, Wally include.

That and it was only a projection, perhaps Nvr or one of the other DC readers will be able to provide you with the exact issue number.

Originally posted by Bentley
To be honest barring the OE (that won't erase Surfer anyways so no need to bring it up), DS is still more than a match to Surfer.

The forum rules state that unless other wise specified, the battle takes place in a neutral universe, where all combatants powers work and function properly.

The OE erases SS in an instant.

The same OE which erased limitless pantheon of skyfathers simultaneously (yes he used an omni blast).

The OE won't erase SS, he will shoot a cosmic blast at it, the OE ain't erasing the Power Cosmic as it wouldn't erase the Speedforce, Supes already shooted the OE so it is doable.

The OE failed on Galactus and SS is somewhat a part of the big G. The OE won't work; old school kicking the Surfer will do just fine.

I made a mistake on my post, I didn't mean Wally, I meant Barry.

Originally posted by Bentley
The OE won't erase SS, he will shoot a cosmic blast at it, the OE ain't erasing the Power Cosmic as it wouldn't erase the Speedforce, Supes already shooted the OE so it is doable.

The OE failed on Galactus and SS is somewhat a part of the big G. The OE won't work; old school kicking the Surfer will do just fine.

Maybe in your mind

Doesn't really matter.

DS never jumps to using the OE, anyway.

SS speedblitzes him.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
SS speedblitzes him.

DS anti-speedblitzes him.

If PC Superman ever used his galaxy and hyperspace-spanning speed back in the day, he could have kicked DS' ass. Darkseid has no speed feats at all as far as I know.

SS should be able to take him with the speedblitz I say till I get some proof otherwise.

Hey, can someone at least debate me on the OE thing? The in your dreams answer did not teach me much.

Originally posted by Bentley
Hey, can someone at least debate me on the OE thing? The in your dreams answer did not teach me much.

The OE can just avoid the cosmic blast all together.

But Superman used his heat vision against it. People argue that Clark wasn't erased because of the source, we have no reason to assume the beam crashing into the OE was part of the deal.

Originally posted by Bentley
But Superman used his heat vision against it. People argue that Clark wasn't erased because of the source, we have no reason to assume the beam crashing into the OE was part of the deal.

That doesn't change the fact that the OE can be guided with incredible precision.

The Superman blocking it with heat vision thing is nonsensical.

But even with PIS it happened, the Surfer can wield the power cosmic way better than Supes his vision and speed wouldn't be an issue.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Written at normal power levels, Darkseid wins 10/10.

why is this even a debate? i dont understand it, DS 10/10, the surfer has absolutely no chance against the true DS

I'm debating an entirely different topic here, DS of course wins 10/10.

well Supes deflecting the OE with his heat vision was just stupid and i dont consider that to be the true DS (like most). In the crossover with galactus and SS, DS hit the surfer with the OE before he attempted to blast galactus. He didnt hit him very long or hard but it was enough to KO the surfer and disentigrate part of his back (according to the drawing). True DS has to much power to get deflected by a weaker source of energy

I thought that was just an omega beam (the one that hit Surfer).

Originally posted by Bentley
I'm debating an entirely different topic here, DS of course wins 10/10.

do you even know Silver Surfer ?

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
do you even know Silver Surfer ?

Do you?

Originally posted by Kurash
why is this even a debate? i dont understand it, DS 10/10, the surfer has absolutely no chance against the true DS

do you mean fanboys/darkseid ? in this case i have to agree with you, Fanboys/Darkseid is above The One Above All and should beat SS 10/10

Real Darkseid is Superman's level (i talk about Dc Comics Darkseid)

Silver Surfer has many chances to beat him, probably most of the times...

SS 6/10

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
This shouldn't even be a debate. DS beats Thanos 8-10/10. Why would surfer even upgraded be a bother?

agreed, if Thanos does not fight

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
do you mean fanboys/darkseid ? in this case i have to agree with you, Fanboys/Darkseid is above The One Above All and should beat SS 10/10

Real Darkseid is Superman's level (i talk about Dc Comics Darkseid)

Silver Surfer has many chances to beat him, probably most of the times...

SS 6/10

. . . k . . .

im done here

let just say that darkseid can do everything sufer can do on a more cosmic level. Darkseid is not jsut more powerful tah surfer he is also more versatile than surfer.
DS 10/10 and with ease.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
agreed, if Thanos does not fight

Let me think how can DS beat Thanos? Reality manipulation? Thanos does not have reality powers. DS throws Thanos in the Omega for all time. Erasure? Thanos cant' be killed, be he can be taken right out of the time line. DS has creations that are more powerful or as Powerful as thanos. Stayne and Brimstone. Both of whom are vastly Inferior to the True DS. True DS is a Giant near Abstract lvl being who would crush Thanos in his hand.

Darkseid every single time.

The lack of Darkseid knowledge on this forum absolutely sickens me.

People view him as Superman's punching bag which is wrong on SO many levels.

Originally posted by batdude123
Darkseid every single time.

The lack of Darkseid knowledge on this forum absolutely sickens me.

People view him as Superman's punching bag which is wrong on SO many levels.

If it makes you feel better I once thought he was Superman's dad.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it makes you feel better I once thought he was Superman's dad.

"Clark, I am your father, I have turned over to the "Darkseid" of the Source.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
"Clark, I am your father, I have turned over to the "Darkseid" of the Source.

Not bad.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
"Clark, I am your father, I have turned over to the "Darkseid" of the Source.

Yeah basicly

I was like 9 at the time and I guess I had recently seen StarWars.

Darkseid 7/10.

And Brimstone isn't anywhere near Thanos in power.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Darkseid 7/10.

And Brimstone isn't anywhere near Thanos in power.

ORLY? Well brimstone gave the Firestorm Elemental Hell before. ANd Firestorm Elemental is atleast a match for Thanos if Not above and beyond THanos out right. ANd Surfer get NO I repeat NO wins against DS. Not even half of one.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Darkseid 7/10.

Rubbish.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ORLY? Well brimstone gave the Firestorm Elemental Hell before. ANd Firestorm Elemental is atleast a match for Thanos if Not above and beyond THanos out right. ANd Surfer get NO I repeat NO wins against DS. Not even half of one.

Elemental Firestorm?

The big flame demon looking guy who fought Brimstone on the sun?

He's near Thanos in power, or beyond?

HA!

What did he do to warrant such a claim?>

Grow big and flamey?

I would give him the majority over Surfer, much less Thanos.

And i give Surfer three times out of ten, since his inferior in Superman has beaten Darkseid twice, and stunned him early Post Crisis.

Darkseid isn't this untouchable guy you present him as. Comics show this.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Elemental Firestorm?

The big flame demon looking guy who fought Brimstone on the sun?

He's near Thanos in power, or beyond?

HA!

What did he do to warrant such a claim?>

Grow big and flamey?

I would give him the majority over Surfer, much less Thanos.

And i give Surfer three times out of ten, since his inferior in Superman has beaten Darkseid twice, and stunned him early Post Crisis.

Darkseid isn't this untouchable guy you present him as. Comics show this.

Those two times he won, was explained the Source backed Superman, protected him from the OE and reflected it back at DS, who survived.

Yeah nice try in an attempt to dismiss DS.

But if you actually knew DS, you would know SS has 0/10 of a chance of winning even 1 match.

DS takes this every time.

We using DS in his true form (no boom tube)? Then I guess SS is destroyed purely by DS sheer size.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Those two times he won, was explained the Source backed Superman, protected him from the OE and reflected it back at DS, who survived.

Yeah nice try in an attempt to dismiss DS.

But if you actually knew DS, you would know SS has 0/10 of a chance of winning even 1 match.

DS takes this every time.

We using DS in his true form (no boom tube)? Then I guess SS is destroyed purely by DS sheer size.

No liar.

The comics where he was defeated made no mention of the Source protecting Superman.

And if the comic doesn't mention it, then it bears no discussion.

The whole Source protecting Superman from Darkseid thing is merely forum/netlore, and was never actually backed up by the comics in question.

First time, Darkseid says Superman has grown stronger, and then shoots the OE off. Reflected by hv without mention to any Source protection.

Darkseid loses DD, gets his forces routed and punched in the face and thrown through the boomtube without any mention of the Source.

Second time, WW reflects the OE, and Superman beats him up on the sun, and tosses his ass into the source wall. No mention of source protection yet.

People bringing up the Sources protection, holds as much weight as me bringing up the fact that Dick Grayson had been shot in the leg in WarGames, and thats why he got beaten by those metahumans OYL........................

Though the comic makes no mention of the gunshot from way back.

Somebody present me a scan that says the OE can't work on someone who's protected by the Source, and then show me a scan of Superman being called protected by the Source.

Likely i'll get the Trial of Superman scans.

Originally posted by UniOmni
No liar.

The comics where he was defeated made no mention of the Source protecting Superman.

And if the comic doesn't mention it, then it bears no discussion.

The whole Source protecting Superman from Darkseid thing is merely forum/netlore, and was never actually backed up by the comics in question.

First time, Darkseid says Superman has grown stronger, and then shoots the OE off. Reflected by hv without mention to any Source protection.

Darkseid loses DD, gets his forces routed and punched in the face and thrown through the boomtube without any mention of the Source.

Second time, WW reflects the OE, and Superman beats him up on the sun, and tosses his ass into the source wall. No mention of source protection yet.

People bringing up the Sources protection, holds as much weight as me bringing up the fact that Dick Grayson had been shot in the leg in WarGames, and thats why he got beaten by those metahumans OYL........................

Though the comic makes no mention of the gunshot from way back.

Somebody present me a scan that says the OE can't work on someone who's protected by the Source, and then show me a scan of Superman being called protected by the Source.

Likely i'll get the Trial of Superman scans.

You know how I know you do not read DC comics?

Because it wasn't explained in those issues that Superman held divine purpose to the source (as does DS), that the Source purposely protected superman form the OE, for he was needed for his purpose, he needed to live.

WW didn't reflect the OE, the source did so, you would know this if you read the actual comics, and not just scans from here and there.

Just as DS was protected from Spectre by the Source, for similar reasons.

It was explained later on, Nvr has the exact issue numbers, hes posted them before so I know they were accurate.

Let them be posted then and i'll recant and apologize.

Until then, begone.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Let them be posted then and i'll recant and apologize.

Until then, begone.

You really dont' read DC. Superman is protected by the source. DS commented on this himself. I will find the exact issues again. And the reason WW deflected the OE is becuz she placed part of her soul with in DS. Try and read DC comics and not look an ass. Calling someone a liar will make you look a fool. How many times was I called a liar, and yet I dispelled every ****ing one of those myths. You would do well to research before you call someone a liar. you will end up looking a fool like I made someone else when they said I lied.

And here i thought the incredible Aegis bracelets, which have reflected many high powered attacks did the reflecting, as shown in the comic!

I don't read DC?! No, i don't read DC with rose colored Glasses on.

I don't care if Superman is protected by the Source.

Unless the comic in question makes a mention of that being why the OE was reflected in Apok Now, its merely theorizing on your part, and without substance at that.

And the bracelets reflection made no mention of that little thing from OWAW.
You're really reaching here man.

DS wiN'sbangin.

I won't bother wondering why there are four pages to this thread. Without reading, I'm positive Board and Nvr have covered all the reasons why DS completely curbstomps here...

Boardwalker and Nvr have only made it clear why the level of KMC has fallen so far.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Boardwalker and Nvr have only made it clear why the level of KMC has fallen so far.
Ha Ha!

Originally posted by Board Walker
You know how I know you do not read DC comics?


"You know how I know you're gay?"



One of my favorite references.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Boardwalker and Nvr have only made it clear why the level of KMC has fallen so far.

It couldn't have fallen from the Bottom with you already being here. And your rediculous Marvelism. Any fool knows Surfer gets NO I repeat NO wins against DS.

Also wasn't it said the reason Woner Woman defelected the OE was during "Our Worlds At War" she actually placed part of her soul into Darkseid? So meh!

surfer would beat him now he has an upgrade

Originally posted by lionking
surfer would beat him now he has an upgrade

UM no. Surfer's Upgrade only gave him a boost to a lil less than Thanos lvls. DS was always stronger than Thanos, so surfer wouldn't fair any better now than he would before hand. And surfer has no conclusive feats other than the energy machine.

Darkseid possesses the Anti-Life Equation now, Surfer's upgrade is pointless to DS.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Darkseid possesses the Anti-Life Equation now, Surfer's upgrade is pointless to DS.
Even with out the ALE, DS's TP would pwn surfer. OR he would dump the surfer in the Omega and reality warp him int o a tin can.

Yes, yes I know he wouldn't need the ALE but it's much harder to simply prove that on this board but many are more willingly to accept he wins with the ALE.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It couldn't have fallen from the Bottom with you already being here. And your rediculous Marvelism. Any fool knows Surfer gets NO I repeat NO wins against DS.

You're the worst type of comic reader.

You're the type, who excludes any losses or showings that don't fit into the arc that your vision holds to.

You're not a fanboy.
You're a stan.
And your stanism is a taint that won't let Darkseid be shown as what he is, an above the top tier who's not out of reach for the elites.

For 20 years, the guy hasn't been out of the reach of Superman, even Byrne era Superman.

In the last 6, he's been mostly seen in Superman related books, and his level of villainry has fallen somewhat.
Morrison is trying a reboot, but until then, his OE has been reflected a few times, and his guile is lacking.

And the Omega of the Seven Soldiers was all a mind****, seen by the fact that the story started and ended in the same place, a blackhole.

Originally posted by UniOmni
You're the worst type of comic reader.

You're the type, who excludes any losses or showings that don't fit into the arc that your vision holds to.

You're not a fanboy.
You're a stan.
And your stanism is a taint that won't let Darkseid be shown as what he is, an above the top tier who's not out of reach for the elites.

For 20 years, the guy hasn't been out of the reach of Superman, even Byrne era Superman.

In the last 6, he's been mostly seen in Superman related books, and his level of villainry has fallen somewhat.
Morrison is trying a reboot, but until then, his OE has been reflected a few times, and his guile is lacking.

And the Omega of the Seven Soldiers was all a mind****, seen by the fact that the story started and ended in the same place, a blackhole.

Actually, Morrison has already said that the story is in continuity and wasn't a mind ****. DS has never been an above the top tier. You are the worst type of hater that there is. An above the Top tier does not create beings like stayne, is able to easily destroy takion, and kills sky fathers and pantheons for kicks. Now get lost chump.

Seven Soldiers tied into the Crisis, and now several other books. Including 52, Robin, and others.

And for the record, the seven soldiers stunt was done WITHOUT the Anti-Life Equation.
They THINK he has it, but he doesn't.
Apperently all he did was under his own power, or some new powerup, but until defined, I'll go with the personal power thing, until they say otherwise... especially when it seems he's once again being promoted as the Darkseid he used to be.


The latest Firestorm arc shows that he doesn't have it as we were led to believe in Seven Soldiers.
The New Gods of Genesis and Apocalypse get involed trying to get ahold of Doctor Stein, because he's all but solved the Anti-Life Equation. Orion says he wants to get Stien "before it falls into the wrong hands".
Mister Miracle snaps back, that it already IS in the wrong hands.
Motherbox says Darkseid doesn't have it..

The one power that might give the surfer some wins is cosmic awareness
he has it,and to their best ability,he shoould be able to find a weakness(if any) i am not saying Surfer wins the majority but,he is a character that i can see doing it

This is just my opinon,when in these type of battles i tend not to use low feats,and go with top feats, so as to be fair to both

Darkseid 8/10

Originally posted by starlock
The one power that might give the surfer some wins is cosmic awareness
he has it,and to their best ability,he shoould be able to find a weakness(if any) i am not saying Surfer wins the majority but,he is a character that i can see doing it

This is just my opinon,when in these type of battles i tend not to use low feats,and go with top feats, so as to be fair to both

Darkseid 8/10

Do you think Surfer would then get wins against Odin? Becuz DS is truly as powerful or more powerful than ODin.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Do you think Surfer would then get wins against Odin? Becuz DS is truly as powerful or more powerful than ODin.

In Asgard No
I also tend to favor magic in a sense(when used by a god),But outside asgard well id have to go thru respect threads and check out some stuff
I also take backstory in account like being father of the Asgardian gods and all that

But i do respect Darkseid and everyones opinon, i just give cosmic awareness its respect also, especialy when its the surfer who has i will admit has been given a UNKNOWN power upgrade(no real definetive feats yet)

But hell even i will go back in the respect threads and think things thru,I am only human who can be mistaken from time to time hehe

Originally posted by starlock
In Asgard No
I also tend to favor magic in a sense(when used by a god),But outside asgard well id have to go thru respect threads and check out some stuff
I also take backstory in account like being father of the Asgardian gods and all that
HA! Odin would waste Surfer inside Asgurd, outside Asguard, in space, on earth, on freaking jupiter lol...
All of Odin uber feats takes place outside on Asgurd, usally in space imo.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Do you think Surfer would then get wins against Odin? Becuz DS is truly as powerful or more powerful than ODin.

A claim thats not been validated from Nvr? Not so!

Originally posted by Priest
HA! Odin would waste Surfer inside Asgurd, outside Asguard, in space, on earth, on freaking jupiter lol...
All of Odin uber feats takes place outside on Asgurd, usally in space imo.

Priest please hehe i know how to use a respect thread and i even said i would check first,you dont need my post to try and hammer your point to me ,i think its clear what i said

Originally posted by starlock
Priest please hehe i know how to use a respect thread and i even said i would check first,you dont need my post to try and hammer your point to me ,i think its clear what i said
just joking man

Originally posted by Priest
just joking man

I know i am just playing
Btw i wonder why more Surfer fans dont use the cosmic awareness,it can be a very important power in a versus match,especialy ones with characters from two different universes

Originally posted by starlock
I know i am just playing
Btw i wonder why more Surfer fans dont use the cosmic awareness,it can be a very important power in a versus match,especialy ones with characters from two different universes
oh we do, but that our oppostion dosent know
I myself would mention cosmic awerness when some asks me something like "how would surfer know superman's weakness"..stuff like that.