Mace Windu crushing Grievous's Chest

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LordGrievous
How badly did mace crushing grievous's chest damage grievous's combat ablities? And isn't Force Crush a darkside power any way? I know that vaapad opens the user up to the dark side but i didn't think mace would go as far as using force crush. (the end of star wars the clone wars the cartoon).

MasterAshenVor
I personally belive it did i mean think about it my friend if someone used force crush on YOU'RE CHEST do you think it would hamper you're combat ability and BTW that lead to Obi-Wans "Lucky" defeat of Grevious

Count Makashi
Yea, i agree, it was to extreme for a Jedi, they should have thought of another explanation, like he got shot by a trooper or something.

Council#13
Luke used a miniature version of the Force Choke on a Gamorrean (is that how you spell it?) gaurd in ROTJ, didn't he?

LordGrievous
Well yeah it would mess me up but i'm not 98% mechinacal and would have instantly killed me. And being shot by a trooper wouldn'y work cause grievous's armor is Blaster resitant(thats spelled wrong i think) But i do belive Grievous may have beat obi-won if is wasn't for mace.

Tangible God
Force Crush isn't a Dark Side power, it's no different from squeezing something with the force. Only the manner in which he used it determines its alignment.

Luke didn't kill the Gamorreans (I think), and Mace, already closer to the Dark Side than most Jedi used it aggressively yes, but wouldn't stabbing someone in battle be just as aggressive. Not to mention it was a little justified.

Sorgo X
Mace did not use Force Crush, he used Force Grip to enclose Grievous' chestplace.

Force Crush IS a dark side power and is actually considered the darkest power the sith use, seeing as it lifts the body and crushes almost every single bone in the opponent's body.



And:

Force Choke and Force Grip = Apples and Oranges.

Apollo Cloud
No.

Force crush is an upgraded version of force grip, they're both essentially the same thing, and that is the use of TK to compress matter.

Sorgo X
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No.

Force crush is an upgraded version of force grip, they're both essentially the same thing, and that is the use of TK to compress matter.

I didn't say Force crush and force grip were different, even though they are.

A grip is a weaker and different type of power.


Crush and Grip = Apples and Oranges as well.

Apollo Cloud
Again, no they're not, that's like saying force push and force pull = apples and oranges, see how silly that is?

Tangible God
Originally posted by Sorgo X
I didn't say Force crush and force grip were different, even though they are.

A grip is a weaker and different type of power.


Crush and Grip = Apples and Oranges as well. No, Crush is just a stronger version of grip. If a Jedi grips a rock or crushes the rock, that doesn't make him Dark. Only if their intentions are malevolent does it make crush or grip Dark or evil.

Sorgo X
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Again, no they're not, that's like saying force push and force pull = apples and oranges, see how silly that is?

Push and pull WOULD be Apples and Oranges.

They're two different actions.

To grip something is different than to CRUSH it. Crush = Grip? No.

Force Crush is a dark sided power. It's actually listed as one of THE darkest powers.

Tangible God
Where is that list from? Not from KOTOR I hope.

Apollo Cloud
Dude, clearly you've gone some next idea of what 'apples and oranges' actually are, but you're wrong in this case. Both force push and force pull move objects with TK, and both force crush and force grip compress objects with TK. Both cases contain two comparable actions, so you're wrong, they're not 'apples and oranges' so stop repeating the same sh1t.

LordGrievous
Well saying that a jedi could use force crush on a rock without being malevolent would be okay is the same or worse as saying a jedi could use Lightning on a rock if they weren't malevolent.

Tangible God
Lightning is conjured using raw emotions, which lead to the Dark Side, then it is also used in a malevolent way on living people.

Crush is just a larger version of grip, which isn't done using negative emotions. If it's used in a "bad" way, then it becomes a Dark move. The technique itself though is Dark affiliated.

Alliance
Isn't that true with any force power?

Tangible God
Pretty much, though I think Lightning's an exception.

And I meant, "The technique itself though ISN'T Dark affiliated."

Alliance
Yoda used lightning.

Why make exceptions when there is no reason too?

Tangible God
Did he really, when was that?

Alliance
Did you watch II or III?

Tangible God
I saw him reflecting Dooku's and collecting then throwing Palpatine's back at him. I didn't see him actually conjuring it though.

Alliance
If someone doesn't fire first, does that mean they didn't shoot?

Yoda completely absorbed Dooku's lightning...held it...and then shot it back. That to me a a pure attack.

LordGrievous
That's more of a defelection. besides how would any of you feel if someone crushed your chest? That's pretty malevolent to me specialy since mace attacked first.

Janus X
Originally posted by LordGrievous
That's more of a defelection. besides how would any of you feel if someone crushed your chest? That's pretty malevolent to me specialy since mace attacked first.

Who cares really. Palpatine was getting kidnapped, giving a wide chance for the Republic to lose the war to the CIS. Mace was forced to use it.

Tangible God
Exactly, like I said, it was rather justified.

Sorgo X
Originally posted by Alliance
If someone doesn't fire first, does that mean they didn't shoot?

Yoda completely absorbed Dooku's lightning...held it...and then shot it back. That to me a a pure attack.

Yoda was not able to generate lightning from his own entity through. Reflection is different than production.



Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Dude, clearly you've gone some next idea of what 'apples and oranges' actually are,

A distasteful breech of syntax.



I strongly doubt that.



Apples and Oranges are both fruits. no expression

You're clearly not understanding. To CRUSH something and to GRIP something are different things. If I were to handle a glass cup utilizing my grip, I would have a firm hand around the cup and it would be intact.

Now, If I were to CRUSH a glass cup? It would break and shatter and I would no longer have a grip.

Not to mention the basic emphasis for force crush is to drag the said entity into the air and basically shatter their bone structure.



You think you can just say something is wrong without proof and run off?

Not quite.

overlord
I like the name Sorgo, it reminds me of something.

Alliance
Originally posted by Sorgo X
Yoda was not able to generate lightning from his own entity through. Reflection is different than production.

Not true. What you meant is Yoda DIDN't generate lighning from his own entity. Reflection is a continuous action.

Yoda did not exhibit reflection.

LordGrievous
Originally posted by Janus X
Who cares really. Palpatine was getting kidnapped, giving a wide chance for the Republic to lose the war to the CIS. Mace was forced to use it.

he could have just pulled him off the platform. ramp whatever

General G
Originally posted by Janus X
Who cares really. Palpatine was getting kidnapped, giving a wide chance for the Republic to lose the war to the CIS. Mace was forced to use it.

Didn't do too much anyways, except for later on when facing OB1, and that is even debatable. Mace should not have used it, Grievous was not threatenning any lives personally.

Sorgo X
Originally posted by Alliance
Not true. What you meant is Yoda DIDN't generate lighning from his own entity. Reflection is a continuous action.

Yoda did not exhibit reflection.

My post as follows:

"Yoda was not able to generate lightning from his own entity"



Yes, Yoda did.


Sidious sent a torrent of lightning at Yoda. Yoda temporarily absorbed it in a ball of energy and threw it back into Sidious.

It takes an amount of pressure and hatred to actually generate lightning. Yoda did not generate it.

General G
He may as well have though, he sent it right back at him, wouldn't it take a similar amount of emotions as was when it was sent to send it right back at the person?

Sorgo X
Originally posted by General G
He may as well have though, he sent it right back at him, wouldn't it take a similar amount of emotions as was when it was sent to send it right back at the person?

Not really.

It's like saying shooting a gun, then someone catching the bullet and throwing it back is the same.

General G
Originally posted by Sorgo X
Not really.

It's like saying shooting a gun, then someone catching the bullet and throwing it back is the same.

That is two very different situations, the gun would shoot quite a bit faster than you would be able to throw it, and even still, the inention for you to throw a bullet back at somebody is with the intent of harm. When Yoda sent the lighting back, it was with the intent to harm or even kill Dooku/Sidious was it not? All because of their religion.

LordGrievous
Originally posted by General G
That is two very different situations, the gun would shoot quite a bit faster than you would be able to throw it, and even still, the inention for you to throw a bullet back at somebody is with the intent of harm. When Yoda sent the lighting back, it was with the intent to harm or even kill Dooku/Sidious was it not? All because of their religion.
ok then imagine a jedi deflecting a blaster bolt back at the person who shot it.

General G
He could deflect it towards the leg to injure but not kill or towards the gun to dis-arm them, a Jedi can deflect and still not use emotions of hate or anger, etc.

LordGrievous
Just as a jedi can deflect lightning without hate. And my other question is being ignored How badly was grievous damaged by the attack?

The big EH
Originally posted by LordGrievous
How badly did mace crushing grievous's chest damage grievous's combat ablities? And isn't Force Crush a darkside power any way? I know that vaapad opens the user up to the dark side but i didn't think mace would go as far as using force crush. (the end of star wars the clone wars the cartoon). you're an idiot, thats just in the games, in the actually movies and books force push and force crush would be the same thing just applied differently

Tangible God
Well let's actually take a look at Yoda's situations:

Dooku fight-- He collected Dooku's lightning and sent it back at him. Intending to hurt him no doubt. Now how is that different than if he threw his lightsaber at him?

Sidious fight-- The Dark Lord who will either kill or be killed. "The buck stops here." Collected Sidious' lightning and threw it back at him. OMG, it might have hurt him!

That was his intention wasn't it?

Unless Yoda produced that lightning with his own raw passions, then there's nothin sinister or malevolent about his actions.

The big EH
Originally posted by LordGrievous
Just as a jedi can deflect lightning without hate. And my other question is being ignored How badly was grievous damaged by the attack? he wasn't damaged to badly, but it did give him that reaally bad cough, which he had before which but nowhere near as bad

Count Makashi
His lungs wore damaged(colapsed), i would say, that is pretty sewer damage.

MasterAshenVor
OK I SHALL END THE GREVIOUS DISPUTE =) (The one i started o.o)


OK General G to satisfy your and my mind of all this grevious bashing GREVIOUS KILLED OVER 50 JEDI! *cheers* at least 10 had to be JEDI MASTERS ok....so General Grevious Kicks ass


As for Yoda it was deflection because like it was pointed out so finely befor IT TAKES ALOT OF ANGER TO GENERATE FORCE LIGHTING and YODA HAD NO HATE WATSOEVER. there we go..

Count Makashi
Yoda has to have a little hate, he is still a living individual, because of Sidious all the Jedi died, he had to hate him just a little.

Sorgo X
Originally posted by General G
That is two very different situations, the gun would shoot quite a bit faster than you would be able to throw it, and even still, the inention for you to throw a bullet back at somebody is with the intent of harm. When Yoda sent the lighting back, it was with the intent to harm or even kill Dooku/Sidious was it not? All because of their religion.

You're taking a figurative statement literally.

General G
Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
OK I SHALL END THE GREVIOUS DISPUTE =) (The one i started o.o)

OK General G to satisfy your and my mind of all this grevious bashing GREVIOUS KILLED OVER 50 JEDI! *cheers* at least 10 had to be JEDI MASTERS ok....so General Grevious Kicks ass

Yeah! He kicks major ass! raver

Originally posted by Sorgo X
You're taking a figurative statement literally.

Sorry, I was just trying to make a point.

LordGrievous
Originally posted by The big EH
you're an idiot, thats just in the games, in the actually movies and books force push and force crush would be the same thing just applied differently
oh yeah insult me cause you can't answer the question how orginal.

General G
Indeed.

A Dose Of Vraya
Originally posted by Tangible God
No, Crush is just a stronger version of grip. If a Jedi grips a rock or crushes the rock, that doesn't make him Dark. Only if their intentions are malevolent does it make crush or grip Dark or evil. Isn't crush the power that you learn near the end of KOTOR 2
and if so its a power of its own while, according to Jedi academy, grip is a weaker version of choke.

Tangible God
Originally posted by A Dose Of Vraya
Isn't crush the power that you learn near the end of KOTOR 2
and if so its a power of its own while, according to Jedi academy, grip is a weaker version of choke. It's never been considered wise to base Character's abilities or Force Power's characteristics off of KOTOR Stats. They aren't set in stone rules, more like... guidelines.

Again, a powerful Force user is easily able to disintegrate a rock into dust, but that hardly qualifies as malevolent or evil. If the intention of the User was to harm, maim or kill someone, that's when Good and Evil are brought into debate.

While Mace using Crush on Grievous' chest was certainly intending to harm him, even kill him, it was also an act out of necessity. The Ends justified the Means in this case.

Same argument can be applied to any universally neutral ability. If Jedi never attacked, then the Dark Jedi who rebelled against them in the first place would have won, and never became the Sith. Sheer hypothesis, but the point is still valid.

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