Mister X vs Lady Shiva

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complexbrother
Mister X
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/2e/Mister_X.JPG
Powers
Mister X is a low-level telepath and uses his powers to read an opponent's mind during a physical confrontation. Mister X is able to "see" his opponents moves before they execute them, enabling him to already be several steps ahead. Mister X's ability makes him extraordinarily effective in combat, even against an opponent with superhuman physical attributes like Wolverine. Mister X's powers, however, have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine once he slips into a "Berserker Rage."
Abilities
Mister X is a master of all known forms of armed and unarmed combat, including numerous martial arts, boxing, and swordplay. He is also an expert assassin and escape artist, and is highly proficient with many weapons. Through years of intensive training, Mister X has honed his body and physical attributes to the pinnacle of human conditioning.


vs

Lady Shiva
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Shivaoyl.PNG
Abilities Literate in body language to the point she often knows what an opponent will do before they do it, master martial artist. She is regarded as one of the best fighters in the DC Universe. Batman has pondered if he would be able to beat her in hand to hand combat.

nvrbeenwthagirl
They would probably marvel at each other's abilities and then screw like Minks.

leonidas
damn good fight. i don't know . . . confused

capt it up
mister.x wins. low level telepathy is better then reading peoiple body movement

guy222
Originally posted by complexbrother
Mister X
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/2e/Mister_X.JPG
Powers
Mister X is a low-level telepath and uses his powers to read an opponent's mind during a physical confrontation. Mister X is able to "see" his opponents moves before they execute them, enabling him to already be several steps ahead. Mister X's ability makes him extraordinarily effective in combat, even against an opponent with superhuman physical attributes like Wolverine. Mister X's powers, however, have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine once he slips into a "Berserker Rage."
Abilities
Mister X is a master of all known forms of armed and unarmed combat, including numerous martial arts, boxing, and swordplay. He is also an expert assassin and escape artist, and is highly proficient with many weapons. Through years of intensive training, Mister X has honed his body and physical attributes to the pinnacle of human conditioning.


vs

Lady Shiva
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Shivaoyl.PNG
Abilities Literate in body language to the point she often knows what an opponent will do before they do it, master martial artist. She is regarded as one of the best fighters in the DC Universe. Batman has pondered if he would be able to beat her in hand to hand combat.

mr x

llagrok
Originally posted by capt it up
mister.x wins. low level telepathy is better then reading peoiple body movement

Far, far better. He can just blind her.

Mr X

don't shiv
applying Advanced Mental Martial Arts Batman shields his thoughts from powerful telepaths: Grodd, Manhunter, Manitou Raven/The Shaman...... Darkseid

Shiva who Trained the Dark Knight screens her mind with the image, stench, sound & fireworks of raging Wildfire.

w/o Tp advantage Shiva knocks those rediculous shades aside with a jaw shattering pimpslap then stabs blondie in the eye with a sharp stilletto right through to the brain.

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
mister.x wins. low level telepathy is better then reading peoiple body movement

Yes but I think the result is still the same.

don't shiv
Shiva 10/10

Lady Shiva has protected herself from malicious tp through diligent study & mastery of the Mental Arts

Remember How Mr X used commandoes, Poison, Machine guns, Minions with super powers and advanced training, shurikens, "logan skewer yourself to escape handcuffs" spears traps, shurikens and even telepathy to SOFTEN Logan throughout.

Batgirl Destructions Daughter: Shiva kills one of the League of Assasinw with a wave of her hand.

a mass of guts materializes on the ground.

Wormbait Looks down

Crumples to the floor.

llagrok
Nonsense.

Mr X defeated Wolverine one on one. Pure and simple, he beat up Wolverine. He also beat up Taskmaster and several other highly skilled martial artists.

No Telepathic resistance is mentioned by OP, so she doesn't get any. In case it wasn't clear enough, you can't protect yourself from Mr.X' attacks.

Mr. X

Alfheim
Originally posted by llagrok
Nonsense.

Mr X defeated Wolverine one on one. Pure and simple, he beat up Wolverine. He also beat up Taskmaster and several other highly skilled martial artists.

No Telepathic resistance is mentioned by OP, so she doesn't get any. In case it wasn't clear enough, you can't protect yourself from Mr.X' attacks.

Mr. X

Taskmaster is starting to become the MA equivalent of Apoc or Rhino.

llagrok
Originally posted by Alfheim
Taskmaster is starting to become the MA equivalent of Apoc or Rhino.

Taskmaster is the master of performing tasks.

srankmissingnin
Remember Shiva's "fight" with Prometheus? Well... imagine if it was even more one sided and you will be in the same ball park as the ass kicking Mr. X puts on Shiva.

don't shiv
Prometheus is a Plot Device. C'mon now a helmet which processes and feeds martial arts ability and energy from across the Planet Earth into the wearer's Cerebral Cortex............... Askani preserve me.

Mr X is alright, a brief chronology: their first encounter in Wolverines title;

Logan leaves a bar

X's commandos fire on Logan with machine guns rocket launchers gas
Wolverine hides under a car

They flush him out
more fighting Logan gets skewered like a pinata by the captain

T & A and Block intercept Logan on the rooftops

T and A are two Elektra type female assassins they're also Blonde Brunette & psychopaths. Block is mute big as a house wears dark glasses doesn't say much has superstrength and is apparently invulnerable.

Wolverine gets his ass handed to him black blue and dripping blood.

they leave A hugely SOFTENED logan an invitation for Logan to come fight Mr X

Knock knock One on One with Mr X

Logan wakes up trussed up


Logan breaks free, starts bleeding profusely

lunges at X
Who's fleeing to the armoury to hammer Logan with guns spears knives shurikens.....

now Logan gets angry

Logan finally wins. and retains his Title : The best there is.




Mr X is a low level telepath Batman and SHIVA successfully shield their thoughts in combat situations using techniques acquired, perfected and honed throughout Continuity.

Grodd Darkseid Manhunter Aentos Manitou Raven & Neron have all failed miserably against such shielding when backed by an iron will. And Shiva has the grit to make the shield stick.

Mr X is gonna see/sense what DC's Premier Sensei WANTS him to.

PAIN.

blow jump

complexbrother
bump

shiv
I Want To Say a Little Something That's Long
Overdue
The Disrespect To Women Has Got To Be Through
To All The Mothers And Sisters And The
Wives And Friends
I Want To Offer My Love And Respect And Thanks To The
End

The Pict
Mister X

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Remember Shiva's "fight" with Prometheus? Well... imagine if it was even more one sided and you will be in the same ball park as the ass kicking Mr. X puts on Shiva.

laughing

I forgot how funny srank was when it came to underestimating DC martial artists.

Rorschach
Originally posted by batdude123
laughing

I forgot how funny srank was when it came to underestimating DC martial artists.

He's gone now. sad

complexbrother
Still here.

OgreMan
This a good match. They both have pre-cog but I believe Shiva to be more skilled.

Enyalus
Since he's suddenly relevant again...

Bump.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Rorschach
He's gone now. sad

You're gone now. sad

Battlehammer
Mister X telepathy>reading body language.

Konton
Knowing what someone is going to do before it happens doesn't really matter if you aren't fast or skilled enough to get the hell out of the way.

Shiva for the majority.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Konton
Knowing what someone is going to do before it happens doesn't really matter if you aren't fast or skilled enough to get the hell out of the way.

Shiva for the majority.

That would apply to the both of them.

iceman24567
Shiva

Konton
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That would apply to the both of them.

It helps her out. You know, because she's better than he is. big grin

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Konton
Knowing what someone is going to do before it happens doesn't really matter if you aren't fast or skilled enough to get the hell out of the way.

Shiva for the majority.
excpt he is skilled enough and fast enough.



He showed to be far faster then taskmaster, he shown to make top tier MA look foolish. Not sure were you got the idea that shiva is more skilled or faster because she aint.

Oh and what shiva gunna do when he reading her every move making it next to impossiable for her to hit him?

cloud102
Shiva.

Battlehammer
I bet haft the people or more voting for shiva have no idea who mister x is and have never read a single comic with him in it.

iceman24567
Yeah and your ranting doesn't help. Shiva can fight him blind by the way somebody said he can just blind her no expression

Battlehammer
Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah and your ranting doesn't help. Shiva can fight him blind by the way somebody said he can just blind her no expression
you think shiva can take mister x while blind?



If she was blind she get stomp on badly



It not ranting it common sense. She relies on her ability to prodict others attacks, now she facing some one who can do that and more making her on talent useless.

iceman24567
I said she can fight him blind if need be and no it wouldn't be a stomp.

cloud102
Yes, I know who Mister X is. One of my favorite Wolvie arcs, but he isn't winning, IMO.

psycho gundam
you sure?

X has one of the most hax abilities that almost guarantee victory in a h2h fight with another high-street/low-meta fighter type.

iceman24567
I know who he is too and I still think Shiva beats him.

cloud102
It's nothing Shiva hasn't seen before. Actually, she did fight someone named Dragon (White?) who's speed even surpassed Superman. Evaded him without him even knowing. The suit increased his stats across the board, yet Shiva was able to get the drop and defeat him.

iceman24567
He also had cloaking abilities which is pretty haxed and she still beat the stuffing out of him. His suit gave him advantages yet she still beat him effortlessly.

Konton
Yup. He was invisible and she still ripped his suit apart.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by cloud102
Dragon (White?) who's speed even surpassed Superman. Evaded him without him even knowing

... What the f**k?

And that doesn't seem weird to you at all?

Enyalus
Originally posted by cloud102
It's nothing Shiva hasn't seen before. Actually, she did fight someone named Dragon (White?) who's speed even surpassed Superman. Evaded him without him even knowing. The suit increased his stats across the board, yet Shiva was able to get the drop and defeat him.
You wouldn't happen to have an issue # handy or anything, would you?

That seems really cool, and I haven't read it or I'd remember something that awesome. no expression

iceman24567
Originally posted by Enyalus
You wouldn't happen to have an issue # handy or anything, would you?

That seems really cool, and I haven't read it or I'd remember something that awesome. no expression It was more lame than awesome i kid you not.

Enyalus
Originally posted by iceman24567
It was more lame than awesome i kid you not.
Ah.


Wouldn't happen to be in that Richard Dragon mini back in '04, would it? 'Cause I read that...lol

iceman24567
Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah.


Wouldn't happen to be in that Richard Dragon mini back in '04, would it? 'Cause I read that...lol Nah it was before then he fought long hair Supes so yeah lame.

cloud102
Originally posted by Enyalus
You wouldn't happen to have an issue # handy or anything, would you?

That seems really cool, and I haven't read it or I'd remember something that awesome. no expression

Not the specifics, but his name was Shadowdragon. It was kinda lame, because at first I thought his attrirbutes were increased through hard training, then it was revealed that it was tech. Meh. Some issues are in link.

http://www.comicvine.com/shadowdragon/29-25750/

probably this one.

http://www.comicvine.com/showcase-96-honor-boundilluminationeye-to-eye/37-137543/

Enyalus
Originally posted by cloud102
Not the specifics, but his name was Shadowdragon. It was kinda lame, because at first I thought his attrirbutes were increased through hard training, then it was revealed that it was tech. Meh. Some issues are in link.

http://www.comicvine.com/shadowdragon/29-25750/

probably this one.

http://www.comicvine.com/showcase-96-honor-boundilluminationeye-to-eye/37-137543/

Thanks. I've got his AOS appearance, but not his Superman or AC comic appearances. Wonder how he did vs. Superman in those situations. Because Shiva made him look absolutely stupid. And hurt his manbits, too:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Shiva_Shadowdragon_blow.jpg

iceman24567
Shiva's pretty damn good and cocky too.

Battlehammer
This is just stupid. Mister X went around the world training and then kill the best martial artists in the wlrd. The dudes a top tier MA ion skill. He made taskmaster who had a head start look slow. How does shiva beat him when he literallly knows every move she makes before she makes it? Her on pre cog becomes useless. seem more like wishful thinking from shiva fans then anything

Battlehammer
and yes a blind shiva would be utterly stomp by Mister X to say other wise is simply stupid

cloud102
Mister X learns from the best, I guess. Shiva does the same thing. Goes around the world killing a bunch of martial arts masters.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by cloud102
Mister X learns from the best, I guess. Shiva does the same thing. Goes around the world killing a bunch of martial arts masters.
yes however mister x has telepathy. He actually read her mind making her on telant worthless

cloud102
So, Mister X can take anyone because of telepathy?

Battlehammer
Ne, but he can sure as shit take some one he at least as equal physically to and as skilled. You know how much of an advantage he has. Shiva relies heavly on the ability to read other moves, vs a telepath like mister x it actually a huge disadvantage becuases he knows every time she attempts to read his movements

cloud102
How do you know X is more skilled? Physical stats isn't everything. Shiva has beaten metas before.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by cloud102
How do you know X is more skilled? Physical stats isn't everything. Shiva has beaten metas before.
never said he was more skilled I said he was as skilled.


do you undersatnd how much of an advantage being able to predict your opponets moves are? Let a lone when your opponents is uses to being able to do the same

cloud102
An advantage, but nothing Shiva can't adapt to.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by cloud102
An advantage, but nothing Shiva can't adapt to.
how does she adabt to it? he jsut as skilled just as fast and he knows every single move she will make.


not sure what you dont get.

cloud102
I think any great/master MA can adapt to someone who knows her moves. He may know what's coming, but she has death blows that not even Mr. X can stop.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by cloud102
I think any great/master MA can adapt to someone who knows her moves. He may know what's coming, but she has death blows that not even Mr. X can stop.
how does he adapt to some one who litterally knows ever single move she makes before she makes it. It simpluy wishful thinking on your part.

oh please, mister x like every top tier ma can kill people in numerous ways. love dc fans and there "death blows" which are nothing new to even are world MAs Just becuae there have some down ass name does not make them special

cloud102
In this case it would matter, because Shiva is more skilled. If I know what moves Tyson is going to do, doesn't mean I can stop it. stick out tongue. Strength doesn't matter in this case, IMO.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by cloud102
In this case it would matter, because Shiva is more skilled. If I know what moves Tyson is going to do, doesn't mean I can stop it. stick out tongue. Strength doesn't matter in this case, IMO.
She not more skilled though, He amde top tier MA's look stupid.


Yea howver your not a pro boxer who jsut as fast if not faster.


never said it did stop putting words in my mouth

cloud102
How do you know he's as fast? Shiva's evaded metas before. Yawn.

cloud102
Originally posted by Battlehammer
how does he adapt to some one who litterally knows ever single move she makes before she makes it. It simpluy wishful thinking on your part.

oh please, mister x like every top tier ma can kill people in numerous ways. love dc fans and there "death blows" which are nothing new to even are world MAs Just becuae there have some down ass name does not make them special

there death blows? If you had read my sig, you'd know I'm one of the biggest Wolverine fans, so stop bullshitting. I'm not even that big of a Shiva fan.

Sin I AM
Shiva curbstomps aside from the tp( which she can block) he is nowhere near her level

LS 10/10

iceman24567
Originally posted by Battlehammer
and yes a blind shiva would be utterly stomp by Mister X to say other wise is simply stupid Nah you just don't know much and usually look like a raving idiot. She completely humiliated a guy that Superman said was faster than him. Shiva fighting him blind would not get curbstomped she has beaten countless masters threw out the world and a cloaked martial arts master with enhanced stats wasn't able to sneak up on her. Shiva wins even if Wolverine fanboys don't want to admit it.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah you just don't know much and usually look like a raving idiot. She completely humiliated a guy that Superman said was faster than him. Shiva fighting him blind would not get curbstomped she has beaten countless masters threw out the world and a cloaked martial arts master with enhanced stats wasn't able to sneak up on her. Shiva wins even if Wolverine fanboys don't want to admit it.

Shiva wins this easily. She can pretty much fight without thinking about what she is doing. She kills this second rate D-list mutant

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah you just don't know much and usually look like a raving idiot. She completely humiliated a guy that Superman said was faster than him.

Thats gotra be PIS though.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats gotra be PIS though. Possibly

Phantom Zone
gotta even. laughing out loud

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Enyalus
Thanks. I've got his AOS appearance, but not his Superman or AC comic appearances. Wonder how he did vs. Superman in those situations. Because Shiva made him look absolutely stupid. And hurt his manbits, too:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Shiva_Shadowdragon_blow.jpg looks like the artist can't depict a decent fight, or they're just not that skilled.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah you just don't know much and usually look like a raving idiot. She completely humiliated a guy that Superman said was faster than him.
You have the balls to call me a ranting idiot and they say a stupid statement like this oh please get your fanboy crap out of here. Do you realizes how dumb that sounds. Your trying to imply shiva speed is enough to match a person>superman who can go faster then the speed of light.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Shiva fighting him blind would not get curbstomped
Yes she would. Wolverine who has superhuman senses and a six senses would not be able to beat mister x blind and yet you believe shiva can?

Originally posted by iceman24567
she has beaten countless masters threw out the world
Have you even read a comic with Mister X in it? Because you clearly know nothing about him, he goes around the world find the best master trains with them and then challenges them to a match to the death and kills them. He killed numerous martial arts masters.

Originally posted by iceman24567
and a cloaked martial arts master with enhanced stats wasn't able to sneak up on her.
Who cares what does this prove? Wolverine nor taskmaster were able to sneak up on Mister X even while he was distracted.



Originally posted by iceman24567
Shiva wins even if Wolverine fanboys don't want to admit it.
I am the fanboy? Lets review your arguments shall we. You think it ok that shiva beats a guy who>>superman in speed. Oh and you think shiva can beat Mister X while blind, because she kills masters which is the entire point of Mister X character is to kill the best fighters in the world. Oh and she was able to detect a cloaked enhanced human so that means so automatically>>mister X

Did I miss any of your ridiculous arguments or comments?

iceman24567
Originally posted by Battlehammer
You have the balls to call me a ranting idiot and they say a stupid statement like this oh please get your fanboy crap out of here. Do you realizes how dumb that sounds. Your trying to imply shiva speed is enough to match a person>superman who can go faster then the speed of light.


Yes she would. Wolverine who has superhuman senses and a six senses would not be able to beat mister x blind and yet you believe shiva can?


Have you even read a comic with Mister X in it? Because you clearly know nothing about him, he goes around the world find the best master trains with them and then challenges them to a match to the death and kills them. He killed numerous martial arts masters.


Who cares what does this prove? Wolverine nor taskmaster were able to sneak up on Mister X even while he was distracted.




I am the fanboy? Lets review your arguments shall we. You think it ok that shiva beats a guy who>>superman in speed. Oh and you think shiva can beat Mister X while blind, because she kills masters which is the entire point of Mister X character is to kill the best fighters in the world. Oh and she was able to detect a cloaked enhanced human so that means so automatically>>mister X

Did I miss any of your ridiculous arguments or comments? Once again you just sound like a raving idiot. Like i said i am very well aware of his story and capabilities. I am aware of the bullshit way Wolverine beat him unlike you i have knowledge of both characters. I never once said she could beat him blind i said she can fight him blind big difference. No her showings against top tier martial arts masters and enhanced characters give her the win here. She doesn't have to fight him offensively just counter everything he throws at her and she can do that. Yes you are the fanboy this is proven fact no need to bring up the insane amount of evidence we have threwout the forum. Keep ranting it's funny laughing out loud

BUSTER1
X for the win

Battlehammer
Originally posted by iceman24567
Once again you just sound like a raving idiot. Like i said i am very well aware of his story and capabilities.I am aware of the bullshit way Wolverine beat him unlike you i have knowledge of both characters. I never once said she could beat him blind i said she can fight him blind big difference. No her showings against top tier martial arts masters and enhanced characters give her the win here. She doesn't have to fight him offensively just counter everything he throws at her and she can do that. Yes you are the fanboy this is proven fact no need to bring up the insane amount of evidence we have threwout the forum. Keep ranting it's funny laughing out loud
Lol coming from some one who just used Shiva beating some one faster then superman as evdience this is quite funny.

bullshit way wolverine beat him?

just because you say you have knowledge of both character is not mroe accurate then masterbruce saying he actaully read more then 10 comics.

Mister X has beaten top tier MA's and enhanced characters, do you even get what the tournament he reigning champ of?

Dooes not matter, do you get that he will know every single move she makes? Most fighters as wolverine stated think of several moves a head, which will be utterly disastrous.

yea I am the fanboy right, becuase I just tried and a street leveler beating sopme one faster then superman as evdience right roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Battlehammer
.

Mister X has beaten top tier MA's and enhanced characters, do you even get what the tournament he reigning champ of?




do u think that without the tp advantage, X can defeat her h2h capt?

cloud102
Fortunately for Shiva she doesn't have to think. Thus, X's ability being non important to a point. Even Batman has done the same thing facing off against a meta who was faster. Move without thinking. I know it sounds dumb, but he's done it as well.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Sin I AM
do u think that without the tp advantage, X can defeat her h2h capt?

if she did not have her body reading ability yes.

iceman24567
Did I ever say he was faster? Superman made that statement you keep twisting words I'm not even playing semantics.

carver9
Mr.x 10/10 and he might not even get touched. If you ask me he's more skilled and faster. Everyone that mr.x fought and thrashed easily would either A) beat shiva or B) give shiva a hell of a fight.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I bet haft the people or more voting for shiva have no idea who mister x is and have never read a single comic with him in it.

I love irony.

iceman24567
What proof is there that he's more skilled?

Philosophía
Iceman is right, btw. smile

A little info on Shadowdraon, a martial artist wearing a technological armour enhacing his every physicall atribute. Confronts Superman. Notice how besides the heartbeat, he is invisible to Superman's senses, and uses a thunderclap to find him. And most of all, notice the insane speed he has, making Superman even say that he is not used fighting somebody faster than he is:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon1.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon2.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon3.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon4.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon5.jpg

Philosophía
Moving at the speed of thought, between lasers, and owning robots:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon6.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon7.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon8.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon9.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon10.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon11.jpg

Some info on him training in the martial arts since childhood ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon12.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_ShadowDragon13.jpg

And now, how Shiva does against him...

Philosophía
She detects him even while in his invisible mode. Then she goes physicall against him, until she finds his weak spot. Just using a goddamn stick, and before he can even react, disables his whole armour, but in the end spares him. Insane feat. smile

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva85.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva86.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva87.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva88.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva89.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva90.jpg

Philosophía
-continued-

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva77.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva78.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva79.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva80.jpg

carver9
Originally posted by iceman24567
What proof is there that he's more skilled?

Too much proof, especially since it was said throughout his apperance that he trained with the best martial artist on the planet even overcoming there skills.

The he fought and defeated A rank martial artist in like 2 panels without even getting touched. He fought at least 20 trained ninjas blind fold and beat them without even breaking a sweat.

The only time he got touched throughout his series was when he fought a berserk wolverine and he was thrashing wolverine even then.

Its pretty simple whos better.

carver9

psycho gundam

Philosophía
Where did I say anything about Shiva beating this guy ? All I pointed out is that Iceman saying that Lady Shiva beat a guy who was moving so fast he made Superman say that he is not used fighting somebody faster than him, is true.

iceman24567

psycho gundam
true, but that doesn`t take anything away from what i just posted.

iceman24567
Originally posted by psycho gundam
valiant effort, but someone can just say X has beaten wolverine and and right there you get a huge laundry list of feats that were trumped. Probably laughing

leonidas
Originally posted by carver9
Sabertooth fought NUMEROUS of junior supermen

What the f**k?

sabretooth has never fought someone "faster than superman". faster than superman?? are you kidding?

psycho gundam
you didn`t have to respond to that obvious lie.

iceman24567
LOL

leonidas
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you didn`t have to respond to that obvious lie.

some things just need to be uttered. regardless of how obvious.

Philosophía
Originally posted by leonidas
some things just need to be uttered. regardless of how obvious.

We're talking about Carver here. You're going to adress every one of his posts from now on ? uhuh

leonidas

carver9
Originally posted by leonidas
What the f**k?

sabretooth has never fought someone "faster than superman". faster than superman?? are you kidding?

thats why I said superman juniors, they possessed all of his powersu but wasnt close to being as powerful. confused

that was pretty clear in my post.

carver9

Raoul
Guys.

Accusations of bias aren't allowed, and the same goes for name dropping.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
Guys.

Accusations of bias aren't allowed, and the same goes for name dropping.

Nice sig

Philosophía
I lol'd.

Enyalus
Originally posted by leonidas
What the f**k?

sabretooth has never fought someone "faster than superman". faster than superman?? are you kidding?
That's cool and all, but that should be prefaced with a 'faster than a 1995 Superman'...y'know, the dude who couldn't go light speed or stay in space for long periods at a time. And just prior to his death was getting speedblitzed by Doomsday of all people...Ah yeah, was also before Kal's extensive MA training with Diana and Batman.



I think this is obviously close, but Mister X takes it for a solid majority.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by carver9
Nice sig brown nosing won't help.

carver9
Originally posted by psycho gundam
brown nosing won't help.

Not brown nosing, I know I was wrong but I do like his sig and I might copy. cool

Phantom Zone
Since when did Lady Shiva beating somebody faster than Superman not be PIS? So this is how its going down now, any DC feat is acceptable? Were not going to give any feats faults.

jinzin
Originally posted by Enyalus
And just prior to his death was getting speedblitzed by Doomsday of all people... Doomsday has blitzed the entire JLA, he's been too fast for Wonder Woman in h2h and been able to counter Flash coming up on him. DD is monumentally fast. no expression

jinzin
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing about that fight makes me think that she'll even get one win on mr.x. Sabertooth fought NUMEROUS of junior supermen and would still get his ass handed to him by mr.x. no telepathy don't work on Sabretooth. X's skill set is good, but not that good.

carver9
Originally posted by jinzin
no telepathy don't work on Sabretooth. X's skill set is good, but not that good.

Forgot about that, I should have known this from psylock struggles against him telepathically and him allowing himself to receive the glow actually getting pleasure from it whereas it crippled other people (psylock psi swords).

Phantom Zone
Hey....PIS...Shiva....Shiva beating a guy faster than Supes.... no expression

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hey....PIS...Shiva....Shiva beating a guy faster than Supes.... no expression

How fast is supes in combat? confused

carver9
I have seen slade keep up with wonder woman on occasions and on panel proof states that wonder woman reflexes>>supes.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by carver9
How fast is supes in combat? confused

Arent their numerous examples of him being faster than Batman. I can think of one where Batman almost crippled himself punching Superman but Supes moved his head slightly, plus we see Superman using speed punches on Ultra Man.

Originally posted by carver9
I have seen slade keep up with wonder woman on occasions and on panel proof states that wonder woman reflexes>>supes.

Even if that were the case I havent seen proof for Bats > Superman. That could be ABC.

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Arent their numerous examples of him being faster than Batman. I can think of one where Batman almost crippled himself punching Superman but Supes moved his head slightly, plus we see Superman using speed punches on Ultra Man.

Then you also have other examples of an amped supes (currently happened) is attacking batman and batman responds to his blitz throwing supes off of a cliff saying "When fighting supes I always use his brute strength against him". I forgot what issue its in but its where these aliens is using superman body as a battery.

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Arent their numerous examples of him being faster than Batman. I can think of one where Batman almost crippled himself punching Superman but Supes moved his head slightly, plus we see Superman using speed punches on Ultra Man.



Even if that were the case I havent seen proof for Bats > Superman. That could be ABC.

I never said that bats was>supes but with the little speed that martial artist have they tend to use it in ways of crippling people much faster than them. You should know this by bats showings against supes and wonder woman.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by carver9
Then you also have other examples of an amped supes (currently happened) is attacking batman and batman responds to his blitz throwing supes off of a cliff saying "When fighting supes I always use his brute strength against him". I forgot what issue its in but its where these aliens is using superman body as a battery.

So you think that might have something to do with aliens possessing his body? How many examples do you have of Bats doing that?

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So you think that might have something to do with aliens possessing his body? How many examples do you have of Bats doing that?

Doing what, responding to supes attacks because I could easily bring up the max lord saga. Supes retained all of his abilities, he just thought he was fighting someone else and bats held him off pretty good (almost got killed in the end though).

Then I could bring up bats showing against a supes that was controlled by darkseid.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
How fast is supes in combat? confused

in the 90s, or now?

Originally posted by carver9
I have seen slade keep up with wonder woman on occasions and on panel proof states that wonder woman reflexes>>supes.

one statement by mcduffie does not a precedent set.

and slade is not as fast as wonder woman in actual combat speed. slade keeping up with her or anyone on her or clark's level is pure PIS.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said that bats was>supes but with the little speed that martial artist have they tend to use it in ways of crippling people much faster than them. You should know this by bats showings against supes and wonder woman.

batman doesn't count. he regularly does shit no human could possibly do. its part of the character. it's also largely PIS, and doesn't apply on the forum.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by carver9
Doing what, responding to supes attacks because I could easily bring up the max lord saga. Supes retained all of his abilities, he just thought he was fighting someone else and bats held him off pretty good (almost got killed in the end though).

Who did he think he was fighting?

Originally posted by carver9

Then I could bring up bats showing against a supes that was controlled by darkseid.

I think Batman blantantly said Superman was slower.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think Batman blantantly said Superman was slower.

True.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
Doing what, responding to supes attacks because I could easily bring up the max lord saga. Supes retained all of his abilities, he just thought he was fighting someone else and bats held him off pretty good (almost got killed in the end though).

Then I could bring up bats showing against a supes that was controlled by darkseid.

no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.

again, IT'S BATMAN.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
in the 90s, or now?



one statement by mcduffie does not a precedent set.

and slade is not as fast as wonder woman in actual combat speed. slade keeping up with her or anyone on her or clark's level is pure PIS.



batman doesn't count. he regularly does shit no human could possibly do. its part of the character. it's also largely PIS, and doesn't apply on the forum.

So you're basically discrediting all of batman feats because you dont like it, thats crazy. How about this then, Batman possessed ALL of superman abilities and superman trained batman on how to use them and he mastered it BUT bats STILL got blitzed by nightwing (is nightwing a plot device character).

I'm not discussing supes combat speed with you because I think you're wrong and you think I'm wrong. You're going to show me all of this space flight stuff but we have a writer saying that supes can only go light speed in space. Then you just stated that you discredit mcduffie sayings but last month you post a scan from mcduffie showing supes flying at light in space. confused

Slade isnt the only one who has kept up with wonder woman. Batman has, cheetah (no speed feats before her zoom upgrade even PROVING that she moves over low metas in the speed dept). Hell, normal amazons gave wonder woman good fights and they fight like mere brutes with skill.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.

again, IT'S BATMAN.

I dont want to discuss supes with you because you're going to end up getting mad, lets use wonder woman or martian manhunter for me and your discussions.

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Who did he think he was fighting?



I think Batman blantantly said Superman was slower.

If someone fight at light speed and gets a speed decrease to half of that, they should STILL be able to blitz batman in a millisecond even If they were in a different state before batman even got the chance to blink.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
So you're basically discrediting all of batman feats because you dont like it, thats crazy. How about this then, Batman possessed ALL of superman abilities and superman trained batman on how to use them and he mastered it BUT bats STILL got blitzed by nightwing (is nightwing a plot device character).

you're twisting my words. i said nothing of the sort.

batman was a) unused to using kryptonian powers, and b) was also being mentally affected by the spell that gave him the powers.



post the scan where it's stated superman can only go lightspeed in space.

mcduffie's a hack, plain and simple. if i posted a scan by him, it was only to illustrate that even a hack like him could accept that superman can go ftl.

also, we're supposed to be talking about combat speed.



batman keeps up with everyone. it's no indication of their speed relative to humans, it's their speed relative to batman. there's a difference. batman beat amazo for chrissakes.

cheetah is a wonder woman villain with impressive speed. she has feats, in that she was able to keep up with diana. zoom's amp put her on flash's level, nothing more. she was always fast.

normal amazons are insane. the fact that you called them mere brutes shows that you don't read about them. when lex luthor hired two amazons as bodyguards, they were able to hold off superman for a time.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont want to discuss supes with you because you're going to end up getting mad, lets use wonder woman or martian manhunter for me and your discussions.

laughing out loud

mad? you wish.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.

again, IT'S BATMAN.

Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?


Originally posted by carver9
If someone fight at light speed and gets a speed decrease to half of that, they should STILL be able to blitz batman in a millisecond even If they were in a different state before batman even got the chance to blink.

I dont care Batman said he was slower and hence thats why he survived.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?

umm, the fact that he was acting like some kind of mindless animal, which in itself is the opposite of how superman fights?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
umm, the fact that he was acting like some kind of mindless animal, which in itself is the opposite of how superman fights?

Fair enough.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fair enough.

don't worry, plenty of people will disagree with me lol...

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
you're twisting my words. i said nothing of the sort.

batman was a) unused to using kryptonian powers, and b) was also being mentally affected by the spell that gave him the powers.



post the scan where it's stated superman can only go lightspeed in space.

mcduffie's a hack, plain and simple. if i posted a scan by him, it was only to illustrate that even a hack like him could accept that superman can go ftl.

also, we're supposed to be talking about combat speed.



batman keeps up with everyone. it's no indication of their speed relative to humans, it's their speed relative to batman. there's a difference. batman beat amazo for chrissakes.

cheetah is a wonder woman villain with impressive speed. she has feats, in that she was able to keep up with diana. zoom's amp put her on flash's level, nothing more. she was always fast.

normal amazons are insane. the fact that you called them mere brutes shows that you don't read about them. when lex luthor hired two amazons as bodyguards, they were able to hold off superman for a time.



laughing out loud

mad? you wish.

That still doesnt change the fact that the little training batman had with supes going by your standard should have prevented a blitz from nightwing.

I cant post a scan of it, it was an interview. It was said throughout the forum also after I brought it up. I think even darthgoober brought it up also. I give up on that though because this will be a forever argument between you and I until it comes out of supes own mouth that he cant go light speed.

How did batman beat amazo, did he outfight him because to my knowledge amazo was sent a couple of light years away.

Cheetah still doesnt have the speed feats showing that she's over even spiderman in the speed dept, spiderman feats outweighs hers by a huge gap.

I agree, normal amazon is insane, hell they held off doomsday clones before and fought h2h with supergirl. Thats not the point that I was getting at, they dont use any kind of impressive speed while fighting, they fight like mere brutes and fighting superman doesnt mean that they have superspeed because if thats the case, everyone in dcu has superspeed.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
umm, the fact that he was acting like some kind of mindless animal, which in itself is the opposite of how superman fights?

But who did supes think he was fighting when he fought batman because I seen nothing mindless about what he was doing. You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?




I dont care Batman said he was slower and hence thats why he survived.

Again, how much slower because 1 percent of light speed should destroy bats.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
That still doesnt change the fact that the little training batman had with supes going by your standard should have prevented a blitz from nightwing.

I cant post a scan of it, it was an interview. It was said throughout the forum also after I brought it up. I think even darthgoober brought it up also. I give up on that though because this will be a forever argument between you and I until it comes out of supes own mouth that he cant go light speed.

How did batman beat amazo, did he outfight him because to my knowledge amazo was sent a couple of light years away.

Cheetah still doesnt have the speed feats showing that she's over even spiderman in the speed dept, spiderman feats outweighs hers by a huge gap.

I agree, normal amazon is insane, hell they held off doomsday clones before and fought h2h with supergirl. Thats not the point that I was getting at, they dont use any kind of impressive speed while fighting, they fight like mere brutes and fighting superman doesnt mean that they have superspeed because if thats the case, everyone in dcu has superspeed.

there's nothing to suggest nightwing couldn't have done it.

an interview isn't a comic panel.

batman and nightwing teaming up beat amazo in batman... 637.

cheetah keeps up with wonder woman. that in itself counts when she can do it consistently.

they use plenty of speed. they have to, to keep up with the people they're fighting. it isn't just superman.

Originally posted by carver9
But who did supes think he was fighting when he fought batman because I seen nothing mindless about what he was doing. You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?

nothing mindless? are you kidding?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?

So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalm



Originally posted by carver9
Again, how much slower because 1 percent of light speed should destroy bats.

I dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.

Originally posted by Raoul
don't worry, plenty of people will disagree with me lol...

Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalm





I dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.



Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.

don't have the scans to hand, but basically, superman was made to see brainiac make superman cause the deaths of lois, jimmy, perry and lana, sending him over the edge big time.

carver9
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalm





I dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.



Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.

Its just one scan that was taken through a video camera showing bats holding supes off for a brief time using a chair. Nothing special about it.

Superman was in his right mind the entire time, he went on a rage due to the images max was putting in his head (example, seeing doomsday killing lois and supes seeing wonder woman as doomsday trying to kill her).

Batman cant beat supes, thats not the debate BUT batman has kept up with supes on many of occasions but raoul said dont use bats so I'm not bring that up any more.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
there's nothing to suggest nightwing couldn't have done it.

an interview isn't a comic panel.

batman and nightwing teaming up beat amazo in batman... 637.

cheetah keeps up with wonder woman. that in itself counts when she can do it consistently.

they use plenty of speed. they have to, to keep up with the people they're fighting. it isn't just superman.



nothing mindless? are you kidding?

By your logic, yes its plenty showing that nightwing shouldnt have done it, bats had supes powers and supes trained him on how to use it.

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hey....PIS...Shiva....Shiva beating a guy faster than Supes.... no expression

yeah absolutely...

The only problem is whether or not Superman was referencing his speed up to a point.. I hardly think he was using his max there because when he DOES use his max it's an entirely different situation all together.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
By your logic, yes its plenty showing that nightwing shouldnt have done it, bats had supes powers and supes trained him on how to use it.

he didn't train him that much. batman with superman's powers is nothing compared to superman with his own powers.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by carver9
Its just one scan that was taken through a video camera showing bats holding supes off for a brief time using a chair. Nothing special about it.

laughing laughing laughing

Jesus Christ a ****ing chair. lmao

Man they jobbed Supermans arse out....a chair..oh man. *wipes tear from eye*

Originally posted by carver9

Superman was in his right mind the entire time, he went on a rage due to the images max was putting in his head (example, seeing doomsday killing lois and supes seeing wonder woman as doomsday trying to kill her).

Batman cant beat supes, thats not the debate BUT batman has kept up with supes on many of occasions but raoul said dont use bats so I'm not bring that up any more.

Well the jurys still out.

Originally posted by jinzin
yeah absolutely...

The only problem is whether or not Superman was referencing his speed up to a point.. I hardly think he was using his max there because when he DOES use his max it's an entirely different situation all together.

Yeah theres that as well....omigod we just agreed. *gasp*

iceman24567
Originally posted by carver9
So you're basically discrediting all of batman feats because you dont like it, thats crazy. How about this then, Batman possessed ALL of superman abilities and superman trained batman on how to use them and he mastered it BUT bats STILL got blitzed by nightwing (is nightwing a plot device character). Batman was being affected negatively by the spell and he was depriving himself of yellow sunlight and on top of that he never rested he fought crime 24/7. So Nightwing blitzed a fatigued depowered Superbat and got a couple lucky shots in not that bad but still PIS.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Raoul
he didn't train him that much. batman with superman's powers is nothing compared to superman with his own powers. batman with his regular powerset >>> Superman sundipped eek!

Enyalus
Originally posted by jinzin
Doomsday has blitzed the entire JLA, he's been too fast for Wonder Woman in h2h and been able to counter Flash coming up on him. DD is monumentally fast. no expression
Sure, but you're talking about Doomsday Wars DD, aren't you? Most powerful version of DD ever, IMO. Made both Orion and Supes look like school girls, strength-wise.

carver9
Everything about doomsday is he say/she say, pure hyperbole to the fullest.

Raoul
Originally posted by iceman24567
batman with his regular powerset >>> Superman sundipped eek!

laughing out loud

Originally posted by Enyalus
Sure, but you're talking about Doomsday Wars DD, aren't you? Most powerful version of DD ever, IMO. Made both Orion and Supes look like school girls, strength-wise.

he was pretty awesome, yeah.

iceman24567
I agree Gog wars Doomsday was the shit.

Enyalus
Originally posted by iceman24567
I agree Gog wars Doomsday was the shit.
Not the DD we're talking about. stick out tongue

guy222
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