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The Master of Magnetism and the Goddess of Weather versus the Human Torch and Iceman!

10 minute prep. Fight in NYC.

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/5/56/Magneto442px.jpghttp://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/5/5a/Stormcivilwar.jpg

versus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Htorch.PNGhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d3/Iceberg_01.jpg

i think magneto could take the two elementals alone. I think a better bout would be storm and iceman against magneot and torch

Iceman alone should be able to defeat all three of them

Seriously. None of them can teleport or something that prevents him from dehydrating them.

Iceman. Solo.

10/10.

Iceman becomes water in the air and is unhurtable, and dehydrates them. And don't say Magneto can cause him pain when he is water, as water don't have nerves to cause pain to

Originally posted by Soljer
Iceman. Solo.

10/10.

umm no. Perhaps if Iceman were able to tap into his full potential, but current iceman cannot.

There are many things Magneto can do to counter Iceman's powers as they are of similar origin...both manipulate energy, Magneto manipulates electromagnetic energy while Iceman manipulates thermal energy. But Magneto is far more experienced.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
Iceman becomes water in the air and is unhurtable, and dehydrates them. And don't say Magneto can cause him pain when he is water, as water don't have nerves to cause pain to

water has atomic bonds held by electrons...Magneto can disrupt those bonds.

Originally posted by masterbruce
umm no. Perhaps if Iceman were able to tap into his full potential, but current iceman cannot.

There are many things Magneto can do to counter Iceman's powers as they are of similar origin...both manipulate energy, Magneto manipulates electromagnetic energy while Iceman manipulates thermal energy. But Magneto is far more experienced.

Magneto tries to rip bobby drake in half. As it happens, Iceman goes immediately to vapor form - like he did when he was caught in an explosion as Bobby Drake.

In this form he can't be hurt and can't be found. Even if you want to believe that Magneto can combat Bobby's powers - Bobby can simply outlast Magneto.

Bobby dehydrates Magneto. How will Magneto stop him?

Put up a shield?

magnus takes them out on his own.

Originally posted by Soljer
Magneto tries to rip bobby drake in half. As it happens, Iceman goes immediately to vapor form - like he did when he was caught in an explosion as Bobby Drake.

In this form he can't be hurt and can't be found. Even if you want to believe that Magneto can combat Bobby's powers - Bobby can simply outlast Magneto.

If Bobby tries to hide in mist form (which takes alot of energy out of him and leaves him pretty much powerless and weak) Magneto could send a planetary electromagnetic storm that breaks down the magnetic bonds of every atom it hits, killing Bobby even in his mist form. Of course this will wipe out every other life form as well but Magneto would still win.

Torch is the weak link here imo. Although, i wonder if hed be effected by lightning? Either way, the only way i see him coming close to bothering Mags or Storm is by goin nova. We all know Torch cant do it instantly or near instantly, so.....

Iceman CAN take out both Mags and Storm although i must say that Magneto would be the harder of the two. He has more offensive possibiities than Mags, so that helps him imo.

All in all, id say Iceman and Torch 6/10.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
Bobby dehydrates Magneto. How will Magneto stop him?

Put up a shield?

not before Magneto rearranges the very atomic structure of Bobby Drake.

i dont see icemans abilities being able to penetrate magnetos force field

Originally posted by jrodslam
Torch is the weak link here imo. Although, i wonder if hed be effected by lightning? Either way, the only way i see him coming close to bothering Mags or Storm is by goin nova. We all know Torch cant do it instantly or near instantly, so.....

Iceman CAN take out both Mags and Storm although i must say that Magneto would be the harder of the two. He has more offensive possibiities than Mags, so that helps him imo.

All in all, id say Iceman and Torch 6/10.

Torch is definitely effected by lightning...as fire does nothing against lightning.

He will be killed almost instantly. Even going Supernova, Magneto could shield him and Storm in a power forcefield and thus Torch's supernova will only serve to destroy his teammate Iceman.

Originally posted by masterbruce
If Bobby tries to hide in mist form (which takes alot of energy out of him and leaves him pretty much powerless and weak) Magneto could send a planetary electromagnetic storm that breaks down the magnetic bonds of every atom it hits, killing Bobby even in his mist form. Of course this will wipe out every other life form as well but Magneto would still win.

Is this something Magneto CAN do, or has he actually caused a electromagnetic storm that broke down the magnetic bond of every atom that its hit?

Originally posted by masterbruce
The Master of Magnetism and the Goddess of Weather versus the Human Torch and Iceman!

10 minute prep. Fight in NYC.

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/5/56/Magneto442px.jpghttp://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/5/5a/Stormcivilwar.jpg

versus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Htorch.PNGhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d3/Iceberg_01.jpg

bobby/john ftw

Originally posted by masterbruce
not before Magneto rearranges the very atomic structure of Bobby Drake.

How is Magneto going to overcome Bobby's ability to essentially control kinetic energy regardless of the "type" of energy?twocents

Originally posted by masterbruce
Torch is definitely effected by lightning...as fire does nothing against lightning.

He will be killed almost instantly. Even going Supernova, Magneto could shield him and Storm in a power forcefield and thus Torch's supernova will only serve to destroy his teammate Iceman.

I figured Torch would be. Just wondering because of the heat.

Would Mags be able to shield him and Storm from a supernova? I think hes done it before and Sue shielded the team and she started to feel the heat within. I know the shields are different, but shields nonetheless. Wouldnt that put a strain on Mags power/energy?

Also, the nova wouldnt destroy Iceman as a whole. Just his body.

Show me where Magneto has ever pulled a molecule of H2O apart. Please.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto wouldn't ever even be able to FIND Bobby.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I figured Torch would be. Just wondering because of the heat.

Would Mags be able to shield him and Storm from a supernova? I think hes done it before and Sue shielded the team and she started to feel the heat within. I know the shields are different, but shields nonetheless. Wouldnt that put a strain on Mags power/energy?

Also, the nova wouldnt destroy Iceman as a whole. Just his body.

yeah it would strain Magneto and Storm, however he could also try to form a metallic shield outside of his magnetic shield as further barrier.

If Torch went supernova, Iceman would be killed and he can't change into mist because the wide area radius of the nova blast would have heated up all water molecules in the area so that they have dehydrated, leaving nothing for Iceman to seep his consciousness to.

Originally posted by Soljer
Show me where Magneto has ever pulled a molecule of H2O apart. Please.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto wouldn't ever even be able to FIND Bobby.

Magneto controls electromagnetism...he can unleash a electromagnetic storm that would mess up the electron bonds of any atom it hits, I doubt he could pinpoint H2O though so he would pretty much destroy anything his power hits, including Storm and everything else.

He doesn't need to find Bobby if he unleashes a planetary wide attack (by amping himself with all sources of electricity) that hits everything. This'll prob leave Magneto completely powerless but Bobby will already be dead...along with everything else.

Originally posted by masterbruce
If Bobby tries to hide in mist form (which takes alot of energy out of him and leaves him pretty much powerless and weak)

no it doesnt

Only reason that happened (ONCE) was because he blew up in HUMAN form and then went into mist. If he is in Iceform it takes nothing from him

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto controls electromagnetism...he can unleash a electromagnetic storm that would mess up the electron bonds of any atom it hits, I doubt he could pinpoint H2O though so he would pretty much destroy anything his power hits, including Storm and everything else.

He doesn't need to find Bobby if he unleashes a planetary wide attack (by amping himself with all sources of electricity) that hits everything. This'll prob leave Magneto completely powerless but Bobby will already be dead...along with everything else.

Um so what is Bobby doing as Magneto amps up, taking a nap?

The possibility of Magneto getting a win is there however Bobby imo would take the majority in an on the spot battle.

The question is...


Can Bobby's young and fastreacting attitude outspeed Magneto's years of experience? It's their speed of reaction that determines the fight.

Originally posted by masterbruce
yeah it would strain Magneto and Storm, however he could also try to form a metallic shield outside of his magnetic shield as further barrier.

If Torch went supernova, Iceman would be killed and he can't change into mist because the wide area radius of the nova blast would have heated up all water molecules in the area so that they have dehydrated, leaving nothing for Iceman to seep his consciousness to.

If Magneto did decide to put up the extra shielding, it would be melted away like plastic on a stove, in a nova.

Only Bobbys body woud be destroyed. Remember mb, that Iceman could store his conscious INSIDE of Torch and them come out when its safe to or just borrow some moisture from him.

Originally posted by Soleran
Um so what is Bobby doing as Magneto amps up, taking a nap?

The possibility of Magneto getting a win is there however Bobby imo would take the majority in an on the spot battle.

Magneto doesn't amp up during battle, obviously he'd get killed.

He amps up during his 10 minute prep time...during which he could get every sentinel and computer controlled weapon to target Human Torch and Iceman.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
The question is...


Can Bobby's young and fastreacting attitude outspeed Magneto's years of experience? It's their speed of reaction that determines the fight.

THat's a good question. I understand a full potential Iceman could beat Magneto, but I don't think the current Iceman can. Magneto's too smart, too ruthless, and too powerful.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto doesn't amp up during battle, obviously he'd get killed.

He amps up during his 10 minute prep time...during which he could get every sentinel and computer controlled weapon to target Human Torch and Iceman.

10 minutes to throw out a planet wide attack that would bust molecular forces?


Bobby solo's the team for victory after victory, he controls the kinetic energy, that's pretty much everything.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto doesn't amp up during battle, obviously he'd get killed.

He amps up during his 10 minute prep time...during which he could get every sentinel and computer controlled weapon to target Human Torch and Iceman.

Al that in 10 min, mb?

Then can Torch ask Reed for help by asking for a gadget?

If only Iceman can dehydrate Magneto, it doesn't matters if he is full potential

Originally posted by jrodslam
Al that in 10 min, mb?

Then can Torch ask Reed for help by asking for a gadget?

no, Torch can't ask for help from Reed.

Magneto could take control of all sentinels in under 10 minutes, as he can link to their circuitry telepathically.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
If only Iceman can dehydrate Magneto, it doesn't matters if he is full potential

lol

Magneto is going to look REALLY old all dehydrated.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
If only Iceman can dehydrate Magneto, it doesn't matters if he is full potential

When has Iceman ever deydrated someone of Magneto's power, a being with full control of the electromagnetic forces...forces that trump thermal energy control that Iceman possesses.

Originally posted by masterbruce
When has Iceman ever deydrated someone of Magneto's power, a being with full control of the electromagnetic forces...forces that trump thermal energy control that Iceman possesses.

LOL kinetic energy, let's see he just stops all motion in Magneto's body, cool huh.

Cool, I'm so clever, ok not so much.

Originally posted by Soleran


Bobby solo's the team for victory after victory, he controls the kinetic energy, that's pretty much everything.

Bobby controls thermal energy.

Magneto controls Electrogmagnetic energy, which would include thermal energy.

Magneto >>> Iceman

Originally posted by masterbruce
no, Torch can't ask for help from Reed.

Magneto could take control of all sentinels in under 10 minutes, as he can link to their circuitry telepathically.

No fair. If Mags can get help from Sentinels, why cant Torch get help from Reed. That IS his brother-in-law.

Magneto can't stabilise the waters in his body?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Is this something Magneto CAN do, or has he actually caused a electromagnetic storm that broke down the magnetic bond of every atom that its hit?

Originally posted by jrodslam
No fair. If Mags can get help from Sentinels, why cant Torch get help from Reed. That IS his brother-in-law.

Magneto is using the sentinels as weapons, ie the Sentinels are not considered allies, but rather tools. It's Magneto's powerset to control high tech weaponry...thus using Sentinels is one of Magneto's powers.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Bobby controls thermal energy.

Magneto controls Electrogmagnetic energy, which would include thermal energy.

Magneto >>> Iceman

Lol, control over energy is control over energy it doesn't matter the "type" with these two individuals.

Bobby wins, he has frozen "laser" beams before, top that!

Originally posted by Soleran
Lol, control over energy is control over energy it doesn't matter the "type" with these two individuals.

Bobby wins, he has frozen "laser" beams before, top that!

control over energy is not all the same across the board

Magneto's control of electromagnetic energy encompasses far more forms of energy than Bobby's limited control of thermal energy.

Originally posted by Soleran


Bobby wins, he has frozen "laser" beams before, top that!

can't top some ignorant writer's idea of science.

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/user/2000/299570476c6f0309545110c592b6a63b/136901_400.jpg

Does this guy look like he's someone to be messed with?

Originally posted by masterbruce
control over energy is not all the same across the board

Magneto's control of electromagnetic energy encompasses far more forms of energy than Bobby's limited control of thermal energy.


Kinetic energy, it's kinetic energy even if it is "thermal" energy everything in "motion" generates heat so it's a none issue. Bobby sucks Magento dry or any number of other things.Originally posted by masterbruce
can't top some ignorant writer's idea of science.

It still happened, comic scinece isn't the same as Real world obviously, Magento still loses.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto is using the sentinels as weapons, ie the Sentinels are not considered allies, but rather tools. It's Magneto's powerset to control high tech weaponry...thus using Sentinels is one of Magneto's powers.

Im not buying that mb. Mags is using the sentinels as wepons, so why cant Torch use one of Reeds toys for a weapon?

Mags powerset is to control high tech weaponry? I thought it was just to control metal? Him taking control of a sentinel and just tossing it is one thing, but using it to where its shooting beams and other parts of its arsenal IS actually using it as an ally.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Im not buying that mb. Mags is using the sentinels as wepons, so why cant Torch use one of Reeds toys for a weapon?

Mags powerset is to control high tech weaponry? I thought it was just to control metal? Him taking control of a sentinel and just tossing it is one thing, but using it to where its shooting beams and other parts of its arsenal IS actually using it as an ally.

actually, If Johnny wanted to use Reed's weapons...that's fair game as far as prep goes, but he can't ask Reed for help.

Magneto has taken control of Sentinels in comics before, quite easily I might add.

Originally posted by masterbruce
http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/user/2000/299570476c6f0309545110c592b6a63b/136901_400.jpg

Does this guy look like he's someone to be messed with?

He looks like he's either about to explode or start a political party.

Originally posted by Soleran
Kinetic energy, it's kinetic energy even if it is "thermal" energy everything in "motion" generates heat so it's a none issue. Bobby sucks Magento dry or any number of other things.

It still happened, comic scinece isn't the same as Real world obviously, Magento still loses.

Magneto doesn't shoot lasers...so I don't see how Iceman freezing lasers will help him.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He looks like he's either about to explode or start a political party.

no, actually he looks enraged and about to bring a can of whoopass on anyone dumb enough to be in his way.

How are they going to kill Bobby?

Seriously he would solo the field if he had the mind to.

Originally posted by masterbruce
no, actually he looks enraged and about to bring a can of whoopass on anyone dumb enough to be in his way.

So he's starting a political party then?

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto doesn't shoot lasers...so I don't see how Iceman freezing lasers will help him.

Uh, molecules in motion generate heat due to friction, blah blah blah I'm not trying to make this scientific.

Kinetic energy is greater then the "magentic" energy available for Magneto.

Get em Bobby!!!

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4646/outsmartsmagneto5naca3.th.jpghttp://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3451/outsmartsmagneto29lczc8.th.jpg

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Seriously he would solo the field if he had the mind to.

Magneto regularly solos XMen, which includes Bobby.

I have never seen Bobby solo a group of powerful foes of Magneto's level.

Which comics are you reading where Bobby is this uberpower?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Get em Bobby!!!

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4646/outsmartsmagneto5naca3.th.jpghttp://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3451/outsmartsmagneto29lczc8.th.jpg

LOL...Bobby defeats Magneto by building a slip n slide. Magneto prob wouldn't slip if say .... he was flying like he usually does.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Magneto regularly solos XMen, which includes Bobby.

I have never seen Bobby solo a group of powerful foes of Magneto's level.

Which comics are you reading where Bobby is this uberpower?

Basicly it's just a time thing. There isn't much that anyone there can do to kill him so eventually he'll just be the only one left standing.

Either that or he'll stalemate against Magneto's shields.

I agree with bruce on this one, magneto is ruthless and a genius, bobby is immature, and has never been shown to tap into his full potential (which is pretty much endless)

Going by greatest feats magneto > bobby
Going by top potential bobby > magneto

In ten minutes Bobby would have his conciousness spread across the NYC. He'd be unkillable.

What gets me is why do people assume Bobby is some immature punk? Yes hes more immmature than most of the X-Men ,but he STILL holds his own. He does take threats seriously, but STILL treats them as so.

Iceman is not some young immature clown. People think that why? Because he cracks jokes during battle? Well so does Spider-Man, Deadpool, Guy Gardner, Thing, Daredevil(at times) and other characters.

The man has taken down telepaths, cosmic beings, energy drainers, elemantals and other foes. He still doesnt get enough respect.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What gets me is why do people assume Bobby is some immature punk? Yes hes more immmature than most of the X-Men ,but he STILL holds his own. He does take threats seriously, but STILL treats them as so.

Iceman is not some young immature clown. People think that why? Because he cracks jokes during battle? Well so does Spider-Man, Deadpool, Guy Gardner, Thing, Daredevil(at times) and other characters.

The man has taken down telepaths, cosmic beings, energy drainers, elemantals and other foes. He still doesnt get enough respect.

Exactly

Magneto can maybe put Iceman in an EM bubble and let Storm do some electrolysis on him.

Storm or Magneto can pretty much kill Human torch anytime they want.

He is not immune to electricity or Storm's winds.

Ororo's winds are STRONG AS HELL!

I know that human torch has been shown absorbing electricity but how much can he take? Could he take one of Storms bolts?

Originally posted by phillipan
I know that human torch has been shown absorbing electricity but how much can he take? Could he take one of Storms bolts?

Show 1 scan of that. Please.

I asked that question earlier because i thought/figured he could. It would be nice if this was shown.

Magneto can't stabilise the water in his body

Also, that would instantly kill him

I remember in Inferno Iceman dropped the temp to "absolute zero" and Strom wasn't affected. She said her mutant powers protected her.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I remember in Inferno Iceman dropped the temp to "absolute zero" and Strom wasn't affected. She said her mutant powers protected her.

Actually, Iceman wasnt generating the "absolute zero" temp at that moment he was with Storm. He was just generating "murderously intense" cold.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually, Iceman wasnt generating the "absolute zero" temp at that moment he was with Storm. He was just generating "murderously intense" cold.

Stom Doing Iceman type stuff and her powers protecting her from his cold
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8577/inferno6gv.jpg

Dropping to virtually Absolute Zero

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4853/inferno35rg.jpg

DON'T YOU GET IT!?

Ice is not the only effect Iceman can do!

Can Storm live without water in ehr body? Can Magneto?
Can any of them teleport?

NO!

Iceman takes this solo

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Stom Doing Iceman type stuff and her powers protecting her from his cold
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8577/inferno6gv.jpg

Dropping to virtually Absolute Zero

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4853/inferno35rg.jpg

I have that comic. Like i said, When Storm mentioned being protected by the temperatures, Iceman wasnt generating "absolute zero".

Also, when the "absolute zero" was generated, NOONE was effected by it. Jean was there, Cyclops, Beast, Rouge, Dazzler, etc. They were actually sweating due to the heat from Storm. The area(mountain) where they were directing the temp was where the actual absolute zero was taking place.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I have that comic. Like i said, When Storm mentioned being protected by the temperatures, Iceman wasnt generating "absolute zero".

Also, when the "absolute zero" was generated, NOONE was effected by it. Jean was there, Cyclops, Beast, Rouge, Dazzler, etc. They were actually sweating due to the heat from Storm. The area(mountain) where they were directing the temp was where the actual absolute zero was taking place.

It did say virtually absolute zero. She was right near him as close as can be.

He even said he was about to increase the cold. She said her powers protected her. Obviously she was close enough for him to be concernd enough to warn her about the extreme temps he would be creating. She reassured him that she was protected.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
It did say virtually absolute zero. She was right near him as close as can be.

He even said he was about to increase the cold. She said her powers protected her. Obviously she was close enough for him to be concernd enough to warn her about the extreme temps he would be creating. She reassured him that she was protected.

When it was virtually absolute zero, she was as close to him as Jean and Scott were. Nothing special about that.

Also, when did he say he was going to increase the cold? He initially mentioned "Murderously intense" cold. He didnt make a reference to increasing it at all. Her being protected from the cold generated from his ice-blast should happen. Its not like its as cold as the actual ice-blast itself. It justs lets off a chill in the area.

Originally posted by Soljer
Show me where Magneto has ever pulled a molecule of H2O apart. Please.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto wouldn't ever even be able to FIND Bobby.

Storm has pulled molecules of H2O apart and she will be able to find Iceman.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
DON'T YOU GET IT!?

Ice is not the only effect Iceman can do!

Can Storm live without water in ehr body? Can Magneto?
Can any of them teleport?

NO!

Iceman takes this solo

Storm controls moisture as well. Ororo's powers overlaps Bobby's.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm controls moisture as well. Ororo's powers overlaps Bobby's.

Bobby's are superior in terms of moisture.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Show 1 scan of that. Please.

I asked that question earlier because i thought/figured he could. It would be nice if this was shown.

Sorry I dont have the scan personally. I know for a fact someone on this forums can post a specific issue number it was an FF fan in a human torch vs storm thread Ill try and find it.

Besides:

A) It it not common knowledge that Iceman can do that. Storm would have no idea he can turn himself into the very water he controls

B) Storm can create various icemanish effects, but she cannot reside in someones water supply, rip out the water, freeze heat beams, or slow down molecules.

C) Me and Batdude have had this conversation before about Magneto vs Iceman. Iceman turns Magneto's water into gas, rips it out, turns his head into water, ect. There are so many more ways to win then simply "OMFG, an Ice blast"

Whats wrong with Ice Blasts??

I know they wouldnt make it past Mags shields but does storm have any defense from absolute zero or do her powers really negate temp like 2dam said?

There is a difference between him putting something at absolute zero and his ice blasts.

His ice blasts is affecting the environment around a person, while he can actually make a person body stop its molecular motion to absolute zero.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Bobby's are superior in terms of moisture.

I doubt that.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Besides:

A) It it not common knowledge that Iceman can do that. Storm would have no idea he can turn himself into the very water he controls

B) Storm can create various icemanish effects, but she cannot reside in someones water supply, rip out the water, freeze heat beams, or slow down molecules.

C) Me and Batdude have had this conversation before about Magneto vs Iceman. Iceman turns Magneto's water into gas, rips it out, turns his head into water, ect. There are so many more ways to win then simply "OMFG, an Ice blast"

We are not talking FP Iceman, right? In that case, Storm tosses a bolt at him and he's gone. Same for Torch.

FP Iceman? Thats just speculation. Everything I say, he's done