Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Ah yes... Merlin...
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Wasn't Beyonder able to manipulate 616 as well?
Would you say he can manipulate Galactus?
Do you mean from the Thanos series? ... The Maker?
To be honest,
I don't know where post-Beyonder stands in comparison
with the likes of Celestials and Galactus.
I only know that somewhere between Kosmos and the Maker,
he was upgraded in power & importance. (this took place off-panel apparently)
We know this
cause in 1993 Kubik claims that both Kosmos and himself are below Celestials,
but then in 1994,
MM, who the LT called one of the most powerful beings in all creation,
rips the essence of the Beyonder out of Kosmos and claims
that only he can surpass Beyonder in power, forget Kosmos, but Beyonder himself,
suggesting that Beyonder's essence for whatever reason is above Kosmos,
we know this has to be true,
cause Kosmos got owned from a great distance away like a child,
while Beyonder at-least put up a decent fight against the ultra uber MM.
Which is interesting, cause in the Thanos' series,
Thanos also stated that Beyonder's essence was "unlimited power"
in fact, he somewhat feared the thought of beyonder escaping the Maker's body,
he also stated
that the only prison that could contain the Beyonder's essence
was the prison the Beyonder created himself, that is, the Maker's body.
(why Beyonder made himself vulnerable in mortal form is a mystery)
Gladiator's partner also stated that the Maker, had it not gone mad,
could've reversed "the Crunch" on a whim, destroying 616,
I guess that's what you're referring to.
That may be a bit of hyperbole, I'm not sure.
But in the issue with MM, (1994)
which was a year after Kubik's comments concerning Celestial superiority,
Kubik stated that killing Beyonder's essence,
would cause "havok across Multiversal cosmography"
suggesting Beyonder is either essential in some way to Reality,
or his power is so off the charts, that unleashed violently would wreck Reality.
btw. In 1994, during the Protege drama,
Beyonder encompassed his own entire Universe,
he was operating on a Multiversal scale,
and was affecting Reality on a Multi-Universal scale,
he didn't display total Multiversal power which is why I label it Multi-Universal.
But, the LT and Eternity bfr'd Beyonder to that Universe he encompassed,
where Eternity stated that Beyonder retained his omnipotence.
So this would suggest that Beyonder, definitely at this time,
was below Eternity, and of course the LT for sure.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Honestly... manipulating 616 has been completely downplayed to me.
And I guess a universe could pass, but meh.
Why would you say that?
Remember, 616 has only been wiped out into a void 5 times in its history,
and it was legit characters:
Sise-Neg, who was "God" ... 1972
Reed and the UN during the Abraxas arc ... 2001
Genis/Entropy, who conceptual purpose is to recycle all creation ... 2002
Thanos/THOTI, erased all reality, re-created all reality ... 2003
Alien Entity, folded all reality to its pre-big bang point,
then created from withIn itself the "Spark" that ignites the fires of creation,
then used Reed's mind as a guide to re-create everything,
AE ended up merging with the engines/fires of creation, Past/Present & Future,
making it one of the most powerful entities ever. (top three for sure)
Wanda tore everything down, and rebuilt it, ... 2005
but she didn't turn Marvel into a void like the others.
That's it.
As far as manipulating 616,
that's quite limited as well:
IG
CCU
Dormammu for the short tiime he had the infinite Multiversal power of Eternity.
Korvac, after absorng Galactus's ship made subtle alterations in 616,
but that's hardly remaking 616, in fact, it's not.
That's about it, anything else has been threats that have never come to pass.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Also, just an observation,
but if he was manipulating 616,
then everything he mentioned was already created...
so,
did he remake the laws to say he created it,
or did he... well, I don't know what else he could have done.
The in bold is ...
Yea, Jaspers can't create from nothingness,
he only has absolute power over what's already there.
He is. I admit, Strange isn't my fav character. Galactus eats him. I have a slightly different opinion on the warper. Its cool
this thread
Have a good one