Better fight? USA or Japan. Interesting, check this

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RyogaHibiki
My animefights got closed, and this got me to wonder about something...

Which kind of comic do you think gets the fights done better?

Typical, long japanese martial arts fights which can take nearly 50 pages...

Or typical, 2 pages long, comic fights were one of the fighters nearly always totally dominates his opponent, and its about powers, not skills

I prefer Japanese Manga Fights

[BAW]Endrict
I like long fights.....but I can't read Japanese,need the English subtitled books.

Bentley
It would be cool to have longer fights in comics but I have seen some done and the result is not as good as one would expect. A lot of that depends if you have something to say about the battle or if its just for show.

RyogaHibiki
the japanese fights in themself, manga.
not the language.

and bentley, maybe not in US comics, but it suits manga and is a part of its charm

RyogaHibiki

CasanoVa
Those long fights are so unrealistic, you rarely see a fight (in real life) that lasts longer than a few minutes (outside of boxing and sports etc.)

Comic fights trump Manga fights every time.

Soljer
laughing

If that isn't the most leading, biased way of asking the question....

"What do you prefer, the shitty, craptacular, horrid, retarded American way, or the better, perfect, stylized, sexy Japanese way?"

roll eyes (sarcastic).

Bentley
I wonder about the best comic fights in history. It would make a good read.

RyogaHibiki
Casanova, is it realistic what Spidey did to Flamelord?
Or how the Cap-Spidey fight went?
Or when Hulk held energy?
Or when omnipotent beings are defeated by nonomnipotents?
Or guys like WOlveirne NEVER gets knocked out?

For just to mention a FEW examples...

So, they are both unrealistic. Manga jsut focuses more on making the fights enjoyable to read. Cooler moves, more detailed, longer and true emotions in the fights. SOme of them, that is

CasanoVa
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
Casanova, is it realistic what Spidey did to Flamelord?
Or how the Cap-Spidey fight went?
Or when Hulk held energy?
Or when omnipotent beings are defeated by nonomnipotents?
Or guys like WOlveirne NEVER gets knocked out?

For just to mention a FEW examples...

So, they are both unrealistic. Manga jsut focuses more on making the fights enjoyable to read. Cooler moves, more detailed, longer and true emotions in the fights. SOme of them, that is

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes

Yeah, I don't want to read 50 pages of fighting. That's why manga sucks my friend, that's why manga sucks.

True emotion? I'm suprised they have anything to do inbetween the 50 page fights.

Bouboumaster
Guys in manga looks ****in' gay.

Bentley
Now that I think of it 50 pages of fights kind of suck. I don't mind it because I don't pay a dime for it, but it is kind of lame to post too much fight and no history or character development.

RyogaHibiki

RyogaHibiki
bouboumaster...
superheroes looks like ****ing halloweenadults?smile

Bentley
At least put up a link.

RyogaHibiki
50pages of fighting sucks?

What about this one...

Ranma and Ryogas second showdown.

They have both trained for days to fight each other. Ryoga to learn the Break Point technique. Ranma to increase his speed. Break Point is supposed to destroy whatever the user touches.

Ranma constantly avoids Ryogas Break Point and uses attractive martial arts to kick Ryoga around, but Ryogas training have made him INCREDIBLE durable, and ranma cant hrut him... so its a matter of time before ryoga will touch him and win. ranma realizes he cna only hurt ryoga by using his newgained speed to punch him hundreds of times a sec the same place. their fight is now more even, as ranma does damage to ryoga. but ranma starts growing tired. ranma becomes desperate as ryoga jumps forwards and attacks, but ranma slams him to the ground with thousands of punches before they hits the ground and the cliff they stands on crumbles, thus ending the fight...

RyogaHibiki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IopsKiNosOg

Endless Mike
It's impossible to say, since not every fight in manga is the same, and not every fight in comics is the same.

You're just generalizing

RyogaHibiki
i am going after the most typical style of fights

Endless Mike
There is no "most typical style of fights".

A fight between Spider-man and Captain America is going to be nothing like a fight between Thanos and Silver Surfer.

Stop overgeneralizing

RyogaHibiki
i am going after the most typical style of fights

RyogaHibiki
still, their fights are short and onesided

Soljer
Short and One-sided? Go check out the Death of Superman.

RyogaHibiki
There is always a few exceptions, like some mangafights are short

StyleTime
Neither one is better. Each individual series should be judged as such. Generalizing an entire medium is just ignorant.

RyogaHibiki
There is typical traits for each medium.
And thats not debatable

RyogaHibiki
Lets put this down to one thing...

Whats the best US fight and whats the best manga fight?

The best mangafight is definately the fight against Vegeta in the SayanSaga of DBZ

the best of US, i dont know

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
Lets put this down to one thing...

Whats the best US fight and whats the best manga fight?

The best mangafight is definately the fight against Vegeta in the SayanSaga of DBZ

the best of US, i dont know

Symmetric Chaos
I greatly prefer fights in manga actually.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
The best mangafight is definately the fight against Vegeta in the SayanSaga of DBZ

Good god you're a dumbass.

RyogaHibiki
symmetric chaos, glad you prefer manga, but what about my opinion makes me a dumbass?

Thats the longest animefight ever, and the one with the most surprises and twists

King Kandy
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Good god you're a dumbass.
Don't bash it just because it's DBZ.

It was quite a good fight scene, back when those kind of fights still seemed creative.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
symmetric chaos, glad you prefer manga, but what about my opinion makes me a dumbass?

Thats the longest animefight ever, and the one with the most surprises and twists

Basicly that it was one of the idiotic 50 page fights.

Things with more finess and actual development of a fight rather than screaming tend to be much better done.

RyogaHibiki
even a non-animefan could see that fight was extremely cool compared to anything US can come up with

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by King Kandy
Don't bash it just because it's DBZ.

It was quite a good fight scene, back when those kind of fights still seemed creative.

laughing out loud

Exactly DBZ made any fight of that type completely unviable.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
even a non-animefan could see that fight was extremely cool compared to anything US can come up with

Plasticman vs Fernus was far better than any fight I can remember from DBZ.

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Basicly that it was one of the idiotic 50 page fights.

Things with more finess and actual development of a fight rather than screaming tend to be much better done.

vegeta and Gokus team constantly found small desperate loopholes to surpass each other, and they fought till both were nearly incapable of moving. the screaming is just natural to dbz

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Plasticman vs Fernus was far better than any fight I can remember from DBZ.

What happened?
How many pages?
Scans?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
vegeta and Gokus team constantly found small desperate loopholes to surpass each other, and they fought till both were nearly incapable of moving. the screaming is just natural to dbz

And yet the fight was quite literally nothing but punching and kicking and blasting people with energy and finding loopholes. There was no thought or cleverness to the writing of the fight.

The whole "fight until the only thing that keeps you going is your will power" is so unbearably cliche thats its often enough to ruin an entire fight as far as I'm concerned.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
What happened?
How many pages?
Scans?

Do you really rate fights by how long they are?

King Kandy
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
laughing out loud

Exactly DBZ made any fight of that type completely unviable.
But back in that fight it was still an interesting style.

It's not the best Anime Fight by any means. But it's not bad, either.

Newjak
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
vegeta and Gokus team constantly found small desperate loopholes to surpass each other, and they fought till both were nearly incapable of moving. the screaming is just natural to dbz Wait are you talking about a comic or the actual show because then I'll call Spiderman vs Doc Ock in the movie Spiderman 2

If not then anything I've seen in Anime is basically trumped by the fight with Superman and Doomsday.

The fight with Captain Marvel and Superman.

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And yet the fight was quite literally nothing but punching and kicking and blasting people with energy and finding loopholes. There was no thought or cleverness to the writing of the fight.

The whole \"fight until the only thing that keeps you going is your will power\" is so unbearably cliche thats its often enough to ruin an entire fight as far as I\'m concerned.

Yes, overused.

But it was the constant change of the odds and twists of the fight that impressed me. The fight was in fact VERY wellwritten.

Because youd ont ike it, it doesnt becomes badly written

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by King Kandy
But back in that fight it was still an interesting style.

It's not the best Anime Fight by any means. But it's not bad, either.

srug

I watched DBZ when I was a kid. I got up to the thing with Freeza and realized that as much fun as it was to watch people kick each other in the head the show wasn't going to change.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
Yes, overused.

But it was the constant change of the odds and twists of the fight that impressed me. The fight was in fact VERY wellwritten.

Because youd ont ike it, it doesnt becomes badly written

laughing laughing laughing

Hi Judge!

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Newjak
Wait are you talking about a comic or the actual show because then I\'ll call Spiderman vs Doc Ock in the movie Spiderman 2

If not then anything I\'ve seen in Anime is basically trumped by the fight with Superman and Doomsday.

The fight with Captain Marvel and Superman.

Superman vs Doomsday was just boring strenght-vs-strenght, yet dramatic, i must admit.

And the SPiderman vs Doc Ock fight was cool, but nothing special

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
laughing laughing laughing

Hi Judge!

damnsad bustedsad

hate those // that always appears!sad

who cares, i dont spam or anythingsmile

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
damnsad bustedsad

hate those // that always appears!sad

who cares, i dont spam or anythingsmile

Judge you know that this was going to provoke hostility.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
srug

I watched DBZ when I was a kid. I got up to the thing with Freeza and realized that as much fun as it was to watch people kick each other in the head the show wasn't going to change. Everything lost all it's dramatic tension after the Freeza saga.

Seriously, there was NOTHING in the show after that that amounted to good character development.

masterbruce
on paper, i like American battles more

but on TV, Manga battles are 100x better, Americans can't animate for their lives

King Kandy
I liked this Judge version. I spotted him from the getgo, but didn't say anything since I thought that he wasn't doing anything wrong.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by King Kandy
Everything lost all it's dramatic tension after the Freeza saga.

Seriously, there was NOTHING in the show after that that amounted to good character development.

Might be why I stopped watching. I was like 8 so I don't quite remember.

Nowadays I prefer stuff with more of the phychological and moral reletavism themes in it. Good fight scenes are nice but not the main reason I read stuff.

King Kandy
So what do YOU think was the best Anime Fight scene?

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
on paper, i like American battles more

but on TV, Manga battles are 100x better, Americans can't animate for their lives I don't know about that the battles in the Justice League show are greatly done especially the one with Captain Marvel and Superman far better than anything I've seen from DBZ or any other anime I've watched.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
I don't know about that the battles in the Justice League show are greatly done especially the one with Captain Marvel and Superman far better than anything I've seen from DBZ or any other anime I've watched.

they're great by American standards

but I think good Japanese animation makes JLU look like it was made by 4th graders

In Japan, animation is meant for adults. In America, cartoons are for kids, they're generally not taken as seriously.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by King Kandy
So what do YOU think was the best Anime Fight scene?

No idea.


I like a lot of the stuff in ElfenLied.

The murders in Monster are pretty awsome even though you don't really get to see them.

Bleach, AfroSamurai and Kenshin are full of awsome fights.

Nagato vs Asakura was one of my personal favorites of all time.



Nothing from anime or manga sticks out to me as the single greatest fight.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Might be why I stopped watching. I was like 8 so I don't quite remember.

Nowadays I prefer stuff with more of the phychological and moral reletavism themes in it. Good fight scenes are nice but not the main reason I read stuff.

there's a lot of psychological and relativism themes in DBZ.

Is Vegeta a good guy or a bad guy?

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by masterbruce
on paper, i like American battles more

but on TV, Manga battles are 100x better, Americans can\'t animate for their lives

Agreedwink

Long time no see, Masterbrucewink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Newjak
I don't know about that the battles in the Justice League show are greatly done especially the one with Captain Marvel and Superman far better than anything I've seen from DBZ or any other anime I've watched.

JLU does have some good fights. But, IMO, they lack the finesse I like in manga in anime.

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Newjak
I don\'t know about that the battles in the Justice League show are greatly done especially the one with Captain Marvel and Superman far better than anything I\'ve seen from DBZ or any other anime I\'ve watched.

I will not say i have never seen better fights in anime, but i agree, that fight was really cool for JL standards

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by masterbruce
there's a lot of psychological and relativism themes in DBZ.

Is Vegeta a good guy or a bad guy?

Thats not nearly on the same level as some of the really good stuff.

Vegeta just switches sides constantly. Its more of a guessing game half the time.

By moral reletavism I mean things like:

Scar and Ed in FMA
Asakura in TMoHS
Almost every character in Monster
Raito in DeathNote

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by masterbruce
there\'s a lot of psychological and relativism themes in DBZ.

Is Vegeta a good guy or a bad guy?

you say some interesting things, but... go watch the show insteadsmile
vegeta is neutral-good

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
they're great by American standards

but I think good Japanese animation makes JLU look like it was made by 4th graders

In Japan, animation is meant for adults. In America, cartoons are for kids, they're generally not taken as seriously. I disagree I think the fluidity of the Capt. Marvel and Superman fight far exceeds anything I've seen from anime.

Anime made be made for adults it doesn't change the fact I think besides the pretty images most of their fights lack any real fluidity and are mostly just stylized.

To me that kind of animated fighting comes of as lame to me. I'll take fluid over stylized any day which I think Americans do far better than Japanese Anime.

But that is just my opinion obviously you have a different one.

King Kandy
Originally posted by masterbruce
there's a lot of psychological and relativism themes in DBZ.

Is Vegeta a good guy or a bad guy?
Yeah, sure that was interesting... For the first season. Then he turned all lame and they tried to act like he was still evil.

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by King Kandy
I liked this Judge version. I spotted him from the getgo, but didn\'t say anything since I thought that he wasn\'t doing anything wrong.

Thanks, i guesswink

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Judge you know that this was going to provoke hostility.

?

my english sucks... can ya define what ya mean?

grey fox
50 page martial arts fights are only utilised in stereotypical bullshit Shoen Manga (Basically Manga for 8-13 year old boys).

Hellsing (Yes, yes I know I never shit the f*ck up about it ; but it's a damn good example) is the prime example of non 50-page fighters.

Each chapter barely reaches over 28 pages. Fights are usually insanely quick with Alucard dominating his opponent in seconds due to sheer power. Usually the pages are full of mass blood sprays for Christ sakes ! Inbetween the fighting is some reasonably deep philosiphy on war and life.

Or better yet , heres an example.
Originally posted by grey fox


(Warning : VERY Gory , seriously. I wouldn't watch this if you can't handle violence and some serious blood spray, so don't click if you don't like teh violence. For the rest, enjoy smile )

Cu2ZtN4hYB0

Symmetric Chaos
Yeah Hellsing has some kickass stuff too.

RyogaHibiki
I am not familiar with Hellsing, but can already hear its nto fo my interest:P

emotions and action is the most important things to mesmile

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
I am not familiar with Hellsing, but can already hear its nto fo my interest:P

emotions and action is the most important things to mesmile

huh Thats what Hellsing is about (the emotions just happen to be deep and more complex than DBZ or Naruto)

RyogaHibiki

Endless Mike
This guy is really getting on my nerves.

It's people like this that give a bad name to anime fans.... no wonder there are so many anime haters.

Bentley
I've seen way worse anime otaku punks, he is rather reasonable in that respect.

RyogaHibiki
I dont give anime a bad name, mike...

People like you makes us sound like a community with rules on how to behave and such gives anime a bad namesmile

spidermonkey
Meh, I don't care for that

stand and talk each to other
move
counter-move
speedy martial arts
really fast running
energy blasts or projectile
rinse
repeat

type of fight-scene.

RyogaHibiki
spidermonkey, is it the Ranma vs Ryoga movie i linked to you before you are referring to?

bean_machine
Damn I am not reading thru 4 pages of this, so if anyone already said this then oh well.

Don't compare anime to comics. I love both but they are not the same. If you don't enjoy one or the other its all good.

Oh BTW I love Hellsing.

RyogaHibiki
I like both of them.

But its the FIGHTS i am comparingsmile

Trolt
Well different demographs.


compare hollywood action "Big hulkin men wrestling each other + car chase + random explosion"

vs hongkong action

"absurdly long action + extravagant kung fu attacks"

Different tastes for different people.

RyogaHibiki
As trolt said... Hongkong action is bettersmile

bean_machine
One is not better than the other. It is just a matter of taste and I have a liking for both.

Sometimes I want to see movies like Die Hard (awesome movie), other times I prefer to watch movies like Snake and Crane: Arts of Shaolin (awesome movie as well)

Claiming one is better than the other makes no sense, since you are basing your claim on your likes. There is no universal standard for a better movie to compare to and say one type is better than the other.

RyogaHibiki
good point. but this thread is too discuss what you PREFER, and tell whysmile

Endless Mike
Originally posted by bean_machine
One is not better than the other. It is just a matter of taste and I have a liking for both.

Sometimes I want to see movies like Die Hard (awesome movie), other times I prefer to watch movies like Snake and Crane: Arts of Shaolin (awesome movie as well)

Claiming one is better than the other makes no sense, since you are basing your claim on your likes. There is no universal standard for a better movie to compare to and say one type is better than the other.

That is very true

Soljer
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
As trolt said... Hongkong action is bettersmile

Your idiocy is showing.

bean_machine
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
good point. but this thread is too discuss what you PREFER, and tell whysmile

I prefer both and stated why. I love to see long drawn out h2h fights with awsome acrobatic feats, but sometimes I just want to see someone shooting the shit out of his/her opponents and blasting shit away with a rocket launcher while in a car chase scene. I love both and I can't choose between both.

dawsey28
Originally posted by spidermonkey
Meh, I don't care for that

stand and talk each to other
move
counter-move
speedy martial arts
really fast running
energy blasts or projectile
rinse
repeat

type of fight-scene.

laughing

Soljer
Originally posted by dawsey28
laughing

It's funny because we ALL know what he's talking about, stick out tongue.

Redatom65
all manga sucks. period. no expression

RyogaHibiki
he is talking about the video from youtube i just posted...sad

RyogaHibiki

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Redatom65
all manga sucks. period. no expression

blink

spidermonkey
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
he is talking about the video from youtube i just posted...sad

blink You actually think I watched that?

Redatom65

spidermonkey
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IopsKiNosOg

LMAO... I just watched this video and it is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

And to top it off was that guy standing beside a giant Panda?

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by spidermonkey
LMAO... I just watched this video and it is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

And to top it off was that guy standing beside a giant Panda?

I was also thinking that. Same chronological order you mentioned those things.

And the panda is Ranmas dad. No biological mistakes, he is jsut cursed

Adult Swim Guy
this is a good example of the type of jap anime/maga!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIvaV4ehSr8

spidermonkey
That is because MOST anime has that exact type of fight scene. It's annoying.

What's funny is I was mostly thinking of DBZ when I posted that.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by spidermonkey
That is because MOST anime has that exact type of fight scene. It's annoying.

What's funny is I was mostly thinking of DBZ when I posted that.

blink You need to watch a better variety of anime.

CasanoVa
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
blink You need to watch a better variety of anime.

Just don't watch anime at all big grin

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by CasanoVa
Just don't watch anime at all big grin

roll eyes (sarcastic)

A lot of anime is great. People just like focusing on the ones that suck.

RyogaHibiki
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
blink You need to watch a better variety of anime.

You cant discuss Manga on a US comic boardsmile
you can jsut sit and laugh at the ignorantsstick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by RyogaHibiki
You cant discuss Manga on a US comic boardsmile
you can jsut sit and laugh at the ignorantsstick out tongue

Except that I'm not that kind of person.

CasanoVa
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Except that I'm not that kind of person.

I never knew you were gay blink

spidermonkey
Well, maybe not MOST, but a lot of it does.

You guys can show me something different if you just have to.

darthgoober
Closing...

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