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Kazuya Mishima has some problems with persons wanting to destroy the Mishima Zaibatsu.

All of this started when he accquired a number of DOATEC's stock, following the destruction of the Tritower, absorbing the company into the Mishima Zaibatsu (and giving Helena one hell of a payday).

The four ninja who were responsible for destroying the Tritower begins to watch and track Kazuya, as well as gather information on the Mishima family.

Soon, Team Ninja must take on the Mishima Zaibatsu head, as well as destroy the cursed Mishima bloodline. But that won't be easy.

Despite his age (49 years old), Kazuya is still one of the toughest fighters around, a disciple of the Mishima style of Fighting Karate. Combine that with the Devil Gene, Kazuya is near-unstoppable.

ROUND ONE: HAYATE

Hayate is caught by the Tekken Force while he is snooping around the Mishima compound.

Not having a good fight in a while (with the exception of Paul and Jin), Kazuya gives Hayate a challenge: defeat him in combat and he will be aloowed to leave. If Kazuya wins, then Hayate will be spending time in the hospital.

ROUND TWO: AYANE

Kazuya is in the Yakushima region, paying his respects to Jun, while asking her spirit to forgive him in letting their son get involved with the cursed Devil Gene. His reverie is interrupted when the Female Tengu herself strikes, hoping to avenge Hayate.

ROUND THREE: KASUMI

The runaway shinobi has found out that Kazuya discovered the G-project. Worse yet, Alpha-151 is in the area. When Kasumi arrives, she witnesses Kazuya - in Devil form - eliminate Alpha-151 before turning back to normal. Assuming that Kazuya is a demon in human disguise, Kasumi attacks, much to Kazuya's annoyance.

FINAL ROUND: RYU HAYABUSA

With the Mugen Tenshin trio out for the count, only one ninja remains. Ryu finds out that Kazuya is going to be in Hakadote at a tournament and decides to crash it in order to avenge his friends (and possible romantic interest).

Is this 3 on 1?

Originally posted by Remulous
Is this 3 on 1?

Think of it as an endurance match. If Kazuya wins, then he goes on to the next match. Any health he loses in the previous match will be restored.

can you say: TORN SKY BLAST?

Originally posted by judgement hand
can you say: TORN SKY BLAST? LMAO

Kazuya has a high chance of winning if he's fighting each fighter individually.

Raidou vs. Kazuya would be a good matchzkhIpd2pQCY

This is quite a switch for you Xeno,azzy sands a good frigging chance but someone like Rugal doesn't??

Righto....

Do you lack reading comprehension? Show me where I said an H2H Ryu would beat Rugal who's at his greatest noncanonical level. I thought so. The D.I. would murder God Rugal, period. In fact, I fail to see anyone saying otherwise other than Remulous

Originally posted by Xenogears
Do you lack reading comprehension? Show me where I said an H2H Ryu would beat Rugal who's at his greatest noncanonical level. I thought so. The D.I. would murder God Rugal, period. In fact, I fail to see anyone saying otherwise other than Remulous

Hold on a sec:

Originally posted by judgement hand
can you say: TORN SKY BLAST?

That doesn't sound like Ryu's unarmed to me...

I never said you said that, for someone why just accused me of failing to read, you yourself did the exact same thing in the exact same sentence... Where does it say in the thread at all that Ryu's unarmed?

Thought so

One last thing, the Devil Incarnate is not, repeat NOT GUAGABLE. Because of this fact, I can easily say that Rugal stomps all over the tard, and then DI will go on to say that he can destroy the universe with a sneeze. Why? because unlike G.Rugal, Devil Incarnate has nothing in the way of anylisable abilities, we simply do not know what he is in fact capable of. It's one of those characters that you can make as strong or as weak as you like, and because nobody has any actual proof, they are forced to swallow every word at face value.

Sorry Cloud, I'm not going to just take your word like it's gospel just so you can say Ryu wins.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hold on a sec:



That doesn't sound like Ryu's unarmed to me...

I never said you said that, for someone why just accused me of failing to read, you yourself did the exact same thing in the exact same sentence... Where does it say in the thread at all that Ryu's unarmed?

Thought so

One last thing, the Devil Incarnate is not, repeat NOT GUAGABLE. Because of this fact, I can easily say that Rugal stomps all over the tard, and then DI will go on to say that he can destroy the universe with a sneeze. Why? because unlike G.Rugal, Devil Incarnate has nothing in the way of anylisable abilities, we simply do not know what he is in fact capable of. It's one of those characters that you can make as strong or as weak as you like, and because nobody has any actual proof, they are forced to swallow every word at face value.

Sorry Cloud, I'm not going to just take your word like it's gospel just so you can say Ryu wins. Ryu can't even do the Torn Sky Blast for starters. And the Torn Sky Blast isn't a weapon, it's a move.

You said I switched or whatever bullcrap you said, which I did not.

I already explained the extent of the DD's power. It's on par with Vigoor's. Vigoor is he Demon of Destruction who split apart a planet. It's been mentioned the DD's power is the likes of which have never been seen throughout human history. Vigoor's power was witnessed after the spark of human life in ancient times.

As for abilities, none of the D.I.'s abilities were demonstrated before Murai became the D.I., and the D.I.'s abilities do not depend on the person who becomes the D.I. If that was the case, Murai would have been summoning black dragons before, creating magical shurikens out of thin air, teleporting, and flying around like Cervantes De Leon. He was not.

Since this is an endurance test, I think he puts up a fight against Hayabusa, but goes down at the end. Kaz beats everyone else though, barely.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Ryu can't even do the Torn Sky Blast for starters. And the Torn Sky Blast isn't a weapon, it's a move.

He can't do the blast without the sword.

Originally posted by Xenogears
You said I switched or whatever bullcrap you said, which I did not.

Wha?! your smoking something bad dude... I said you accused me of failing to read, then did the exact same thing you accused me of doing, and this proves it.

Originally posted by Xenogears
I already explained the extent of the DD's power. It's on par with Vigoor's. Vigoor is he Demon of Destruction who split apart a planet. It's been mentioned the DD's power is the likes of which have never been seen throughout human history. Vigoor's power was witnessed after the spark of human life in ancient times.

Thats a comparative, not a definitive... I'm not taking yourwordat face value.

Originally posted by Xenogears
As for abilities, none of the D.I.'s abilities were demonstrated before Murai became the D.I., and the D.I.'s abilities do not depend on the person who becomes the D.I. If that was the case, Murai would have been summoning black dragons before, creating magical shurikens out of thin air, teleporting, and flying around like Cervantes De Leon. He was not.

Thats not my point, if you where arguing Murai as the D.I. would beat Rugal, thenwe'dhave ourselves an argument, a debate (Finally) but no, you claimed Ryu as the D.I. would, which has never occured and will never occur until Ryu actually appears as the D.I. somewhere (Canon or not, I don't care, I want to actually seehim as D.I, playable or not, until then, D.I Ryu is a figment of your imagination as far as the forums are concerned.)

If this is Kazuya at his level of power during the first part of his T4 epilogue, he'll make short work of each.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He can't do the blast without the sword.



Wha?! your smoking something bad dude... I said you accused me of failing to read, then did the exact same thing you accused me of doing, and this proves it.



Thats a comparative, not a definitive... I'm not taking yourwordat face value.



Thats not my point, if you where arguing Murai as the D.I. would beat Rugal, thenwe'dhave ourselves an argument, a debate (Finally) but no, you claimed Ryu as the D.I. would, which has never occured and will never occur until Ryu actually appears as the D.I. somewhere (Canon or not, I don't care, I want to actually seehim as D.I, playable or not, until then, D.I Ryu is a figment of your imagination as far as the forums are concerned.) -Can you read DZ? I said that wasn't even Ryu's move. Second, a sword is not required to the move.

-It seems you're smoking something while being drunk at the same time. You said "This is quite a switch for you Xeno" or whatever you said, excusing me of just that.

-That's a definitive because those are the words of the develepors, who created the game. Them saying the Dark Dragon's power is greater than Vigoor's is an undeniable fact. You do know that right?

-Even though you've never seen him before, it doesn't counter the fact he can be the D.I. with something he wielded canonically.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Can you read DZ? I said that wasn't even Ryu's move. Second, a sword is not required to the move.

Ok,my bad on that, take a chill pill.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-It seems you're smoking something while being drunk at the same time. You said "This is quite a switch for you Xeno" or whatever you said, excusing me of just that.

That was an opening statement, reffering to your apparent switch from Ryu always winning to Ryu losing to Kazzy. it wasn't anything more than that (And yes I know that you've said Ryu's lost before, but only after page upon page of arguments.)

Originally posted by Xenogears
-That's a definitive because those are the words of the develepors, who created the game. Them saying the Dark Dragon's power is greater than Vigoor's is an undeniable fact. You do know that right?

Thats not definitive at all, exactly by how much a margine is the power difference, what are the exact capabilities of the DD, why does this not tell meif hecan extinguish the universe with a sneeze?, are there weaknesses to it besides the TDS?

Those are definitive questions Cloud, your answer tells me nothing.


Originally posted by Xenogears
-Even though you've never seen him before, it doesn't counter the fact he can be the D.I. with something he wielded canonically.

It does actually, Ifthis goes through, it opens the floodgates for all sorts of shit, shit that I'mnot going toallow simply so you can say Ryu wins.

Kazuya can actually lose to anyone on this list. He may very well stop at Hayate in the first match. If he scrapes by Hayate, he'll lose to Ayane. Kazuya vs any of these guys would be a good fight though.

Remulous, why do you think he loses to Hayabusa but beats everyone else? Hayabusa has had his share of losses in DOA too.

Darkstorm Zero, I'm not sure if you knew but the Torn Sky Blast is Hayate's move.

Also, let's try and stay on topic guys.

Unfortunately thisisan argument spanning 3 threads, all ofwhich are about the exact same thing...

This is true.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok,my bad on that, take a chill pill.



That was an opening statement, reffering to your apparent switch from Ryu always winning to Ryu losing to Kazzy. it wasn't anything more than that (And yes I know that you've said Ryu's lost before, but only after page upon page of arguments.)



Thats not definitive at all, exactly by how much a margine is the power difference, what are the exact capabilities of the DD, why does this not tell meif hecan extinguish the universe with a sneeze?, are there weaknesses to it besides the TDS?

Those are definitive questions Cloud, your answer tells me nothing.




It does actually, Ifthis goes through, it opens the floodgates for all sorts of shit, shit that I'mnot going toallow simply so you can say Ryu wins. -Put characters who are more powerful than the D.I. up against him and I'll say he loses.

-The capabilities of the D.I. as I mentioned hundreds of times, has been shown in the game. The D.I.'s power is the DD's according to a number of referrences I gave that I can't count. The DD's power is greater than Vigoor's. For your sake let's say the DD's power is equal to Vigoor's. Vigoor can split a planet with his power. That's known. In fact, the V.E. turned a garden that seemed to stretch out indefinitely into a hellish battleground by getting on his two legs, in less than 5 seconds. That's a glimpse of his power.

-No it doesn't. I'll it does is say Ryu's power is the DD's if he's the D.I., and as I already explained, noncanonical characters are as valid as nonexistant, possible characters on this board. Sadly the mod makes the rules and the mod says only canon stuff are allowed.

Originally posted by StyleTime


Remulous, why do you think he loses to Hayabusa but beats everyone else? Hayabusa has had his share of losses in DOA too.
I think because he has proven he has more raw strength (taking on a squad of Jacks) and durability (thrown from a cliff as a child).

Who has Hayabusa lost too in DOA?

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Put characters who are more powerful than the D.I. up against him and I'll say he loses.

Why should I? Ryu'snot as strong as the D.I. Plus he's lost a few fights in DOA

Besides,youjust said Kaz defeats him,and he is definitely no planet splitter.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-The capabilities of the D.I. as I mentioned hundreds of times, has been shown in the game. The D.I.'s power is the DD's according to a number of referrences I gave that I can't count. The DD's power is greater than Vigoor's. For your sake let's say the DD's power is equal to Vigoor's. Vigoor can split a planet with his power. That's known. In fact, the V.E. turned a garden that seemed to stretch out indefinitely into a hellish battleground by getting on his two legs, in less than 5 seconds. That's a glimpse of his power.

Thisisall the same trumped up crap I've seen before, none of this is relevant to my arguments...

Originally posted by Remulous
I think because he has proven he has more raw strength (taking on a squad of Jacks) and durability (thrown from a cliff as a child).

Who has Hayabusa lost too in DOA?
Strength, I'll give him that. Durability is debatable.

Hayate. The very first person Kazuya has to fight. This is an extremely difficult gauntlet for Kazuya honestly.

I'm off to bed for the night though. Later everyone.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Why should I? Ryu'snot as strong as the D.I. Plus he's lost a few fights in DOA

Besides,youjust said Kaz defeats him,and he is definitely no planet splitter.



Thisisall the same trumped up crap I've seen before, none of this is relevant to my arguments... -Reason why you should is he's as valid as all your noncanonical characters my friend, for the twentieth time. Considering this is obviously H2H Hayabusa, Kazuya will win in pretty much any circumstance.

-That all talks about the DD's power, and the D.I. is empowered by the DD.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Reason why you should is he's as valid as all your noncanonical characters my friend, for the twentieth time. Considering this is obviously H2H Hayabusa, Kazuya will win in pretty much any circumstance.

Translation = Your looking to copout an excuse to save your argument by claiming a non-canon character has less validity in these forums as anon-existant one.

No dice Cloud, Non Canon characters are allowed to be argued, but non existant ones cannot.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-That all talks about the DD's power, and the D.I. is empowered by the DD.

It makes no difference at all, D.I Ryu is out.

Originally posted by Remulous
Since this is an endurance test, I think he puts up a fight against Hayabusa, but goes down at the end. Kaz beats everyone else though, barely.

I agree.

Ok. Kazuya is quite tough, but many of you are stretching his Jack feat a little too far. The only one on the list he may scrape by is Hayate. He'll put up a good fight against the rest though.

Honestly, Kazuya's only clear advantage over the ninja is strength.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Translation = Your looking to copout an excuse to save your argument by claiming a non-canon character has less validity in these forums as anon-existant one.

No dice Cloud, Non Canon characters are allowed to be argued, but non existant ones cannot.



It makes no difference at all, D.I Ryu is out. -On the contrary, Ryu is playable with the DDB. D.I. or not, it will be the same because the power of the D.I. is still being used.

-Fine with me. Rugal gets pwned by Ryu with the DDB or TDS.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-On the contrary, Ryu is playable with the DDB. D.I. or not, it will be the same because the power of the D.I. is still being used.

Ahuh... too bad he'snever killed anyone with the DDB, and he's nowhere near planet slicing levels...

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Fine with me. Rugal gets pwned by Ryu with the DDB or TDS.

Nope, the TDS's power only works on the DDB, and the DDB isuseless on it's own. (Thanks Asthar)

Face it, the weapons are plot devices Cloud, theonly leverage you had was the D.I transformation, which Ryu's never done.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ahuh... too bad he'snever killed anyone with the DDB, and he's nowhere near planet slicing levels...



Nope, the TDS's power only works on the DDB, and the DDB isuseless on it's own. (Thanks Asthar)

Face it, the weapons are plot devices Cloud, theonly leverage you had was the D.I transformation, which Ryu's never done. -What sucks for you is that he has ingame, as noncanonical Rugal is only playable in a game and not part of a story.

-Considering it has worked against everything else, and is stated to have immense power the likes of which have never been seen in the game.

Actually, CVS has it's own story in which G.Rugal is a part of.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-What sucks for you is that he has ingame, as noncanonical Rugal is only playable in a game and not part of a story.

He is canon to his own game,Ryu'snever used the DDB in his story, so no, your wrong again.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Considering it has worked against everything else, and is stated to have immense power the likes of which have never been seen in the game.

So what your now saying is that everything you've argued for the TDS has been pure speculation? that has destroyed your ENTIRE ARGUMENT right there... speculation is not evidence, and nobody knows what the properties of the TDS are... we have a winner here ladies and gentlemen, Xeno has just committed Hara Kiri to his own arguments and is therefore disqualified!

So there's no evidence about the sword's properties and he's been bullshiting the WHOLE TIME!? Why that dirty fink.....

Yeah, everything he said is now suspect and subject to outside verification before being considered.

Xenogears, you no longer have any forum cred when it comes to Ryu Hayabusa.

Ouch...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He is canon to his own game,Ryu'snever used the DDB in his story, so no, your wrong again.A character can't be canonical to a noncanonical game einstein. Stop bitching about Ryu using the blade and arguing for G. Rugal at the same time.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So what your now saying is that everything you've argued for the TDS has been pure speculation? that has destroyed your ENTIRE ARGUMENT right there... speculation is not evidence, and nobody knows what the properties of the TDS are... we have a winner here ladies and gentlemen, Xeno has just committed Hara Kiri to his own arguments and is therefore disqualified! That was before the TDS was introduced in the game you tard. The one who stated that said it before the blade achieved its true power, which happened during chapter 17 in the game. Yet another fact you did not know. The TDS's power surpasses that of Vigoor's and the D.I.'s, and I'm not bothering to mention to you once again what these beings are capable of since you'll just deny it like you typically do.

Can we get back to the thread topic please? I would really enjoy hearing the argument for Kazuya. I don't see him taking a majority from any of the ninja honestly when his only advantage is strength.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Can we get back to the thread topic please? I would really enjoy hearing the argument for Kazuya. I don't see him taking a majority from any of the ninja honestly when his only advantage is strength. How has the others proven that they are more durable then Kaz?
From what I've seen, nothing they have been hit by rivals falling from a cliff as a small child.
They are faster, I give them that, but tell me, what else do they have that will make a difference?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He can't do the blast without the sword.

hayabusa can not do the blast PERIOD, the only people who can, are Raidou, and Hayate, and he does NOT need a sword, your argument is suppplied with ignorance.

Edit.

Originally posted by Remulous
How has the others proven that they are more durable then Kaz?
From what I've seen, nothing they have been hit by rivals falling from a cliff as a small child.
They are faster, I give them that, but tell me, what else do they have that will make a difference?
I didn't say they were more durable, I just don't think that Kazuya is more durable. Kazuya was almost dead when he fell.

Kasumi fell from a skyscraper while simultaneously engaging Alpha-152 in aerial combat. After hitting the ground, Kasumi was completely unscathed and poised to continue the fight.

Ayane has also fell from a skyscraper unnharmed. She took a mountain-side leveling blast immediately after fighting Hayate and Kasumi and still proceeded to win against a stronger foe.

Hayabusa traverses cities by falling from heights including skyscrapers. He has also fallen from cloud level and only been a little disoriented afterwards. Hayabusa weathered blows from and defeated Jann Lee, who at the time could literally explode a thick tree by punching it.

Hayate, as you can probably guess by now, has also fallen from a skyscraper unharmed.

In all honesty, Kazuya's durability is average among the high tiers of DOA like Zack and Hitomi. That's not a bad thing, as they are among the strongest in DOA, but Hitomi lost to a ninja just like Kazuya will. Zack, well he's in a whole other league for durability honestly. I wish they'd let him have a shot at one of the ninja.

Kazuya is quite tough, but I need to remind you of the ninpo and teleportation abilities at the disposal of every ninja on that list. Kazuya is fighting an uphill battle here.

You forget, they were not children and they were trained in the way of the ninja, ninjas can do that type of stuff. Kaz is no ninja, jumping from building isn't as easy for him not to mention at that time Kaz wasn't even skilled in martial arts.

well kazy raped Raven up pretty good even though:
-raven has teleportation moves
-has weapons
-is really fast and powerful
so why not these people?

~Sado

Originally posted by Remulous
You forget, they were not children and they were trained in the way of the ninja, ninjas can do that type of stuff. Kaz is no ninja, jumping from building isn't as easy for him not to mention at that time Kaz wasn't even skilled in martial arts.
The ninja training allows them to teleport and use ninpo.

Yes, Kazuya was a child. However, since then he has never shown the same amount of durability as he did then. I doubt he would have survived were it not for devil.

Keep in mind, I am just explaining why his durability is debatable. Kazuya has the strength advantage. The skill level among Kazuya and the ninja is equal. Every other combat advantage goes to the ninja. Kazuya really is fighting from a lower ground.

I also find it peculiar that you believe Kazuya will lose to Hayabusa but not to the others. You do realize that Hayabusa was the weakest ninja in DOA3 right?

The DOA3 ninja hierarchy was
1.Ayane
2.Kasumi
3.Hayate
4.Hayabusa
Originally posted by Sado22
well kazy raped Raven up pretty good even though:
-raven has teleportation moves
-has weapons
-is really fast and powerful
so why not these people?

~Sado
While I understand your reasoning for using Raven, you must understand why he would get soundly defeated by the DOA ninja. Raven's greatest feat is slicing a Jack robot. His teleports are very slow and don't afford him the level of defense the teleportation of the DOA cast does. He lacks ninja magic. He lacks the durability to replicate any of the feats of the DOA ninja I mentioned in my last post. He is quick, but not qick enough to take Kazuya. He also requires the aid of modern technology to even complete missions, yet he still loses.

Raven was one of Kazuya's easier opponents honestly.

Originally posted by Remulous
You forget, they were not children and they were trained in the way of the ninja, ninjas can do that type of stuff. Kaz is no ninja, jumping from building isn't as easy for him not to mention at that time Kaz wasn't even skilled in martial arts.

Kazuya was skilled in martial arts as a kid. Jinpachi trained him. Heihachi continously tested him. What Kazuya lacked, in Heihachi's eyes, was a cold heart. Kazuya was actually a nice kid, and Heihachi believed that to be a weakness. That is why he threw him off the cliff, and forever scarred Kazuya.

True the Ninjas weren't children, but neither was Heihachi when Kazuya threw him down the cliff, and even Heihachi took his while climbing back up. Besides the ninjas can be seen jumping like mad men when they were children in DOA2U's CGI intro.

Originally posted by StyleTime


While I understand your reasoning for using Raven, you must understand why he would get soundly defeated by the DOA ninja. Raven's greatest feat is slicing a Jack robot. His teleports are very slow and don't afford him the level of defense the teleportation of the DOA cast does. He lacks ninja magic. He lacks the durability to replicate any of the feats of the DOA ninja I mentioned in my last post. He is quick, but not qick enough to take Kazuya. He also requires the aid of modern technology to even complete missions, yet he still loses.

Raven was one of Kazuya's easier opponents honestly.

I agree. I was about to tell him the DOA ninjas are on a whole other league when compared to Raven.

BTW what do you believe the ninja hierarchy to be as of DOA4?

I see why you say Hayabusa was the weakest ninja as of DOA3, but to be honest I think they're pretty much even with only their drive to win/accomplish whatever mission per DOA making the difference.

DOA - Kasumi's lust for revenge.
DOA2 - Hayabusa's oath to fight evil and keep his word protecting Kasumi.
DOA3 - Ayane's determination to put her foster father out of his misery.
DOA4 - They are pretty much even here, with Hayate & Hayabusa being leaders since they are no longer fighting among themselves.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Durability is debatable.



Is it really debatable when he survived being thrown of a cliff as a child?no2

Originally posted by StyleTime
The ninja training allows them to teleport and use ninpo.

Yes, Kazuya was a child. However, since then he has never shown the same amount of durability as he did then. I doubt he would have survived were it not for devil.

Why would we assume kazuya lost durability as he matured And, Kazuya is still possessed by the devil last I check. So, if the devil was responsible for that than we can safely assume that his durability has remained the same at the very least.


Originally posted by StyleTime



I also find it peculiar that you believe Kazuya will lose to Hayabusa but not to the others. You do realize that Hayabusa was the weakest ninja in DOA3 right?

The DOA3 ninja hierarchy was
1.Ayane
2.Kasumi
3.Hayate
4.Hayabusa


How is Hayate stronger than Hayabusa in DOA3 hb6BAlDj9r0

Hayabusa wants to know as well

style time,
i have already admitted my ignorance regarding DOA before. the only reason i brought up Raven was because people were insisting that he hasn't fought a ninja before.
I actually don't know the story of DOA too much and all I know about Kasumi and Ayane is that Ayane has a bigger bust

If people here seem to agree that Raven is a cupcake infront of them then I guess that's that.

~Sado

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
BTW what do you believe the ninja hierarchy to be as of DOA4?

I see why you say Hayabusa was the weakest ninja as of DOA3, but to be honest I think they're pretty much even with only their drive to win/accomplish whatever mission per DOA making the difference.

DOA - Kasumi's lust for revenge.
DOA2 - Hayabusa's oath to fight evil and keep his word protecting Kasumi.
DOA3 - Ayane's determination to put her foster father out of his misery.
DOA4 - They are pretty much even here, with Hayate & Hayabusa being leaders since they are no longer fighting among themselves.
Yes, I've always maintained that the DOA ninja are roughly equal. Whoever wins has always been the one with the most desire to win.

As for the DOA4 hierarchy, I am honestly torn about it lol. They all pulled off some crazy stuff in DOA4. However, I think Kasumi may edge out the others slightly due to Alpha-152. Hayate is at the bottom mostly because he didn't do as much. Either way, the gap between any of them isn't large at all.

My tentative list for DOA4(ninja only) right now is

1.Kasumi
2.Ayane or Hayabusa
3.Hayabusa or Ayane
4.Hayate

This list is highly subject to change until DOA5 because everyone was so incredible in DOA4. Plus we need to see who won between Ayane and Kasumi. I'm thinking Kasumi won right now though.

It's so wierd since DOA4. DOA has always had a clear cut hierarchy for each game, but DOA4 was just blew all of that out of the water. I honestly think that DOA4 will be regarded as a landmark in DOA in the future.

Originally posted by Sado22
style time,
i have already admitted my ignorance regarding DOA before. the only reason i brought up Raven was because people were insisting that he hasn't fought a ninja before.
I actually don't know the story of DOA too much and all I know about Kasumi and Ayane is that Ayane has a bigger bust

If people here seem to agree that Raven is a cupcake infront of them then I guess that's that.

~Sado
It's cool man. I think using Raven is a fine defense as it is the only character Kazuya fought who can approach the unique powersets of the DOA ninja. Your argument was actually quite logical. It's just that Raven is too weak.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Is it really debatable when he survived being thrown of a cliff as a child?no2
Yes it is. Kazuya barely clung to life. The DOA ninja fall from comparable heights utterly unharmed. I'm not saying they are more durable. I'm saying that Kazuya isn't more durable. With the possible exclusion of Ayane, Kazuya and the ninja share similar durability.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why would we assume kazuya lost durability as he matured And, Kazuya is still possessed by the devil last I check. So, if the devil was responsible for that than we can safely assume that his durability has remained the same at the very least.

I'll concede to that pointOriginally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why would we assume kazuya lost durability as he matured And, Kazuya is still possessed by the devil last I check. So, if the devil was responsible for that than we can safely assume that his durability has remained the same at the very least.

How is Hayate stronger than Hayabusa in DOA3
Hayabusa wants to know as well
The video didn't work but I'm assuming it's Hayabusa's dialogue with Hayate on the rooftop.

Emperor Ashtar, Hayate beat Hayabusa in that very same match. You know this already.

uhh.........yeah

Hayate beat hayabusa, since when?

He beat Hayabusa then proceeded to lose to Ayane in DOA3.

The DOA guys are ninjas, ninjas can jump from 100ft cliffs and all that.
Karate like fighters, not so much.
Also, who has Hayabusa lost to in do?

Originally posted by StyleTime
He beat Hayabusa then proceeded to lose to Ayane in DOA3.

You got a source for that?

Ayane won the DOA3 in official canon.

Ayane fought Hayate before Genra.

Hayate fought Hayabusa before he encountered Ayane.

It's acceptable that Hayabusa lost to Hayate.

Impossible, Hayabusa knew that fighting Genra was for Ayane to do so he dropped out of the tournament.
Just because he met Hayate doesn't mean they necessarily fought, this may sound crazy but they could've just stopped and talked.

Could be. But it's not out of the line to think he may have lost to Hayate. It's not like Hayate is a wheelchair bound kid with down syndrome.

Yeah, but Hayabusa has been training diligently, Hayate has just gone back to the way of the ninja in the previous game.
It wouldn't be right for him to defeat Haybusa as soon as he becomes a ninja again.

Things don't always go the way we want them to. If that were the case then I would have Hayabusa cut loose with the DS and wtfown everyone in the DOA universe, just because he can.

From what I heard, Hayate fought Ayane was something seperate from the tourney which is why I asked for a source.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You got a source for that?
Dead or Alive 3 is the source for that.
Originally posted by Remulous
Yeah, but Hayabusa has been training diligently, Hayate has just gone back to the way of the ninja in the previous game.
It wouldn't be right for him to defeat Haybusa as soon as he becomes a ninja again.
Yes it would. All of Hayate's memories came flooding back. He remembered his training as well. Also, it's not as if Hayate beat him that very next day. Hayate was still also training while he was Ein. It's not like he just sat around all day doing nothing.
Originally posted by Remulous
Impossible, Hayabusa knew that fighting Genra was for Ayane to do so he dropped out of the tournament.
Just because he met Hayate doesn't mean they necessarily fought, this may sound crazy but they could've just stopped and talked.
No. Hayabusa actively participated in the tournament like he has in every single other Dead or Alive tournament. He got arrogant and lost.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Dead or Alive 3 is the source for that.



No. Hayabusa actively participated in the tournament like he has in every single other Dead or Alive tournament. He got arrogant and lost.

Right after that cutscene hayabusa fights Genra,so, it does not confirm what you said. Nowhere in Doa 3 is there a cutscene illustrating hayate defeating hayabusa.

Originally posted by Remulous
The DOA guys are ninjas, ninjas can jump from 100ft cliffs and all that.
Karate like fighters, not so much.
Also, who has Hayabusa lost to in do?LMAO

Hayate also knows karate.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Right after that cutscene hayabusa fights Genra,so, it does not confirm what you said. Nowhere in Doa 3 is there a cutscene illustrating hayate defeating hayabusa. The cutscene between Ayane and Hayate tells us they were at the semi-finals. Ayane was the one who defeated Genra so that means she defeated Hayate. This was after Hayate's encounter with Hayabusa. Had Hayate lost, he would've been out of the tournament and not have encountered Ayane. So, that means Hayabusa lost to Hayate, though, as a result of being arrogant.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Right after that cutscene hayabusa fights Genra,so, it does not confirm what you said. Nowhere in Doa 3 is there a cutscene illustrating hayate defeating hayabusa.
Xenogears already beat me to it. Ayane canonically defeats Hayate. Hayate had to pass Hayabusa before he fought Ayane. He would be out of the tournament any other way.

There was no cutscene showing the defeat after Ayane beat Kasumi or Hayate, or after Hayate beat Hitomi, or after Hayabusa beat Jann Lee,or after Zack beat Gen Fu either, but it happened.
Originally posted by Remulous
The DOA guys are ninjas, ninjas can jump from 100ft cliffs and all that.
Karate like fighters, not so much.
They still need the durability to land from a skyscraper or higher level drop.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Things don't always go the way we want them to. If that were the case then I would have Hayabusa cut loose with the DS and wtfown everyone in the DOA universe, just because he can.
WEEEEELLLLL, technically Hayabusa has the Dragon Sword and we have seen DOA fighters pull out weapons and magic in fights. Maybe he still wouldn't be able to pull it off.

Although, if Hayabusa did that, I bet everyone would get an upgrade so the game wouldn't become Dead or Hayabusa.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Although, if Hayabusa did that, I bet everyone would get an upgrade so the game wouldn't become Dead or Hayabusa.ROTF

Originally posted by Xenogears

The cutscene between Ayane and Hayate tells us they were at the semi-finals. Ayane was the one who defeated Genra so that means she defeated Hayate. This was after Hayate's encounter with Hayabusa. Had Hayate lost, he would've been out of the tournament and not have encountered Ayane. So, that means Hayabusa lost to Hayate, though, as a result of being arrogant.
Well, listen to the dialogue with him and Hayabusa. He says something along the lines of "It's only me and you left".Indicating they were on the finals.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Well, listen to the dialogue with him and Hayabusa. He says something along the lines of "It's only me and you left".Indicating they were on the finals. Hayate proceeded to pursue Genra after defeating Hayabusa. Ayane confronted Hayate at the last minute. Hayate refused to let Ayane do what she wished so they battled, and Ayane won. Ayane killed Genra as we know since her ending shows Genra's corpse in front of her.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Good point. However, Hayate proceeded to pursue Genra after defeating Hayabusa.


Where is the source for that because I cannot honestly take conjecture as evidence, no offense since the dialogue indicates that hayate fought hayabusa in the finals and right after (I'm saying right after because hayabusa remained in the same stage) fought Omega.




Originally posted by Xenogears

Ayane confronted Hayate at the last minute. Hayate refused to let Ayane do what she wished so they battled, and Ayane won. Ayane killed Genra as we know since her ending shows Genra's corpse in front of her.

I know ayane is the on who defeated Genra for sure, but Hayate defeating Hayabusa isn't really supported. I've heard that their fight took place outside the tourney. This is very much possible since many fights have nothing to do with the tourney I.E. Tengu.

On a lighter note, it kind of feels good to be talking about the best DOA game ever: Doa 3

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Where is the source for that because I cannot honestly take conjecture as evidence, no offense since the dialogue indicates that hayate fought hayabusa in the finals and right after (I'm saying right after because hayabusa remained in the same stage) fought Omega. I know ayane is the on who defeated Genra for sure, but Hayate defeating Hayabusa isn't really supported. I've heard that their fight took place outside the tourney. This is very much possible since many fights have nothing to do with the tourney I.E. Tengu. That fight was part of the tournament and was the fight before the second to last fight, which was between Ayane and Hayate. Hayate's statement points out that the fight was part of the tournament. The fight between Hayate and Hayabusa was supposed to be the second to last fight. Like I said, Ayane showed up at the last minute before Hayate proceeded to battle Genra. She probably was not even supposed to fight Hayate. The scene after Ayane defeats Hayate explains that Genra could not have been where Hayabusa and Hayate fought, so Hayabusa did not win. Bankotsu has nothing to do with the DOA2 tournament. Omega has everything to do with the DOA3 tournament. The tournaments are run by DOATEC. DOATEC created Omega, and Ayane participated in the tournament in order to kill Omega.

Originally posted by Xenogears
That fight was part of the tournament and was the fight before the second to last fight, which was between Ayane and Hayate. Hayate's statement points out that the fight was part of the tournament. The fight between Hayate and Hayabusa was supposed to be the second to last fight. Like I said, Ayane showed up at the last minute before Hayate proceeded to battle Genra. She probably was not even supposed to fight Hayate. The scene after Ayane defeats Hayate explains that Genra could not have been where Hayabusa and Hayate fought, so Hayabusa did not win. Bankotsu has nothing to do with the DOA2 tournament. Omega has everything to do with the DOA3 tournament. The tournaments are run by DOATEC. DOATEC created Omega, and Ayane participated in the tournament in order to kill Omega.

But, that doesn't make any sense at all. Look at the stage where Hayabusa was fightng Hayate. Now look at the stage where Ayane was fighitng Hayate. Now which one looks like th final stage where ayane fights genra?

Infact, it's not even the same time of day.

So, far the hayabusa vs hayate fight has:

-Same stage as genra's
-dialogue indicating that it's the finals

I just don't see hayate beating hayabusa. Neither does hayabusa apprently.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, that doesn't make any sense at all. Look at the stage where Hayabusa was fightng Hayate. Now look at the stage where Ayane was fighitng Hayate. Now which one looks like th final stage where ayane fights genra?

Infact, it's not even the same time of day.It does actually. Like I said, the final stage is not where Hayabusa and Hayate fought, obviously, since Omega never was there.

Time of day is irrelevant:gd1zZDLZB-A
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
So, far the hayabusa vs hayate fight has:

-dialogue indicating that it's the finalsIndicating that it was supposed to be the finals, as I mentioned in my last post. Ayane battling Hayate prior to killing Omega explains it wasn't.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
-Same stage as genra'sGenra's stage is the snow stage canonically.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I just don't see hayate beating hayabusa. Neither does hayabusa apprently.Which is probably why he lost.

Originally posted by Xenogears
It does actually. Like I said, the final stage is not where Hayabusa and Hayate fought, obviously, since Omega never was there.


Dude, look at the stage that Genra is in and compare it to the Azuchi Castle where hayabusa fought hayate. They are exactly the same, infact look at the first vid I posted. Notice that when you fight genra, it's on the remains of Azuchi Castle.

SdYChK14Lps







Originally posted by Xenogears

Indicating that it was supposed to be the finals, as I mentioned in my last post. Ayane battling Hayate prior to killing Omega says it wasn't.

Which is probably why he lost.

-Not even the right stage
-The dialogue doesn't indicate that hayate and ayane are in the finals
-Hayabusa Vs Hayate's dialogue indicates they are in the finals

Originally posted by Xenogears

Genra's stage is the snow stage canonically.

You got a source for that, nevermind that the snow stage isn't even shown in Ayanes ending.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Dude, look at the stage that Genra is in and compare it to the Azuchi Castle where hayabusa fought hayate. They are exactly the same, infact look at the first vid I posted. Notice that when you fight genra, it's on the remains of Azuchi Castle.

SdYChK14Lps









-Not even the right stage
-The dialogue doesn't indicate that hayate and ayane are in the finals
-Hayabusa Vs Hayate's dialogue indicates they are in the finals



You got a source for that, nevermind that the snow stage isn't even shown in Ayanes ending. -Don't tell me the cutscene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage didn't happen. Also, notice how Genra completely changes the environment. The changed environment is what is shown in Ayane's ending.

-The last cutscene before Ayane's ending explains where the last fight took place and how the environment was changed by Genra. For the third time, Hayabusa and Hayate were in the finals, but Ayane showed up at the last minute before Hayate confronted Omega which was in the snow stage. The scene where Ayane meets Omega proves this.

-It was shown in the cutscene before the ending, which is canon btw.

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Don't tell me the cutscene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage didn't happen. Also, notice how Genra completely changes the environment. The changed environment is what is shown in Ayane's ending.

-Genra can change the enviorment based on what, where's your source for all these claims?

-Actually, look at the video's Xeno, especially the one featuring the genra boss fight. See the remains of the castle scattered all over the area. Unless you can offer some proof to your "Genra changing the enviorment, and leaving debris of Azuchi Castle" theory, it will remain as unbased conjecture.



Originally posted by Xenogears

-The last cutscene before Ayane's ending explains where the last fight took place and how the environment was changed by Genra.
No, it does, it doesn't say anyhting about the finals or this ability that you've given Genra.




Originally posted by Xenogears

For the third time, Hayabusa and Hayate were in the finals, but Ayane showed up at the last minute before Hayate confronted Omega which was in the snow stage. The scene where Ayane meets Omega proves this.

So, Ayane randomly showed up during the Hayate's fight, magicaly altered the weather and time, then genra changed it back?



Originally posted by Xenogears

-It was shown in the cutscene before the ending, which is canon btw.

Prove it

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, that doesn't make any sense at all. Look at the stage where Hayabusa was fightng Hayate. Now look at the stage where Ayane was fighitng Hayate. Now which one looks like th final stage where ayane fights genra?

Infact, it's not even the same time of day.

So, far the hayabusa vs hayate fight has:

-Same stage as genra's
-dialogue indicating that it's the finals

I just don't see hayate beating hayabusa. Neither does hayabusa apprently.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
On a lighter note, it kind of feels good to be talking about the best DOA game ever: Doa 3
In gameplay maybe and that's a big maybe. Storywise DOA4 trumps everything as it's the only to actually try and fully develop one. They all had potential though.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, that doesn't make any sense at all. Look at the stage where Hayabusa was fightng Hayate. Now look at the stage where Ayane was fighitng Hayate. Now which one looks like th final stage where ayane fights genra?

Infact, it's not even the same time of day.

So, far the hayabusa vs hayate fight has:

-Same stage as genra's
-dialogue indicating that it's the finals

I just don't see hayate beating hayabusa. Neither does hayabusa apprently.
Itagaki isn't really paying attention to the day when he makes the game.

Hayabusa beat Kasumi in DOA2 during the nighttime yet fights Hayate in broad daylight. Ayane meets Hayate and Kasumi in the daytime in a canyon despite the fact that it's night in an urban area at the end of DOA4. Kasumi fights Radou in the daytime and Hayabusa at night in DOA1. Hitomi fights Hayate at a large mansion overlooking the ocean at night, yet fights Jann Lee in an Ice Cavern. Let's not even start on the whole "Magical Dinosaur Land" ordeal.

It's not unreasonable to say Itagaki doesn't quite consider stage continuity when he makes the games. I don't think we should include the stages as evidence for what takes place.

Hayabusa honestly just assumed it's only them left. He had no way of knowing if Ayane or Kasumi or anyother combatant was around since he hadn't encountered a lot of them. It could also be an error in translation. Also, everyone fights Genra in their last match. We generally exclude the cutscene after the participant has lost already.

This is really Itagaki's fault. He so worried about making the game look cool that forgets some continuity issues. He's also not the brightest bulb in the box.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Gameplay maybe and that's a big maybe. Storywise DOA4 own everything as it's the only to actually try and fully develop one.
Itagaki isn't really paying attention to the day when he makes the game.

Doa 4's gameplay is an: awful, poor, bastardized rendition of the Doa fighting enigine, but I digress, since I don't wanna de-rail this topic further. Story-wise is irrelevant, since Doa's plot is very poor. Itagaki needs to hire some writers and get over himself.


Originally posted by StyleTime

Hayabusa beat Kasumi in DOA2 during the nighttime yet fights Hayate in broad daylight. Ayane meets Hayate and Kasumi in the daytime in a canyon despite the fact that it's night in an urban area at the end of DOA4. Kasumi fights Radou in the daytime and Hayabusa at night in DOA1. Hitomi fights Hayate at a large mansion overlooking the ocean, yet fights Jann Lee in an Ice Cavern. Let's not even start on the whole "Magical Dinosaur Land" ordeal.

Again, offer a source, I'm not taking conjecture as evidence.

Also:

-Hayabusa encountered her at the bridge stage during the day, and the following cutscene remain consistent as per doa U which overides Doa 2

-And you are msiing the point, the stages do not chnge right before eye's like ayane's cutscene.


Originally posted by StyleTime

Hayabusa could honestly just assume it's only them left. He had no way of knowing if Ayane or Kasumi or anyother combatant was around since he hadn't encountered a lot of them. It could also be an error in translation. Also, everyone fights Genra in their last match. We generally exclude the cutscene after the participant has lost already.
Again, offer a source, I'm not taking conjecture as evidence.There is no reason to belive that Hayate beat hayabusa until a source is offered and my points are refuted.

Until than Kazuya could clear it if he rest, but dies if he doesn't.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Again, offer a source, I'm not taking conjecture as evidence.

Also:

-Hayabusa encountered her at the bridge stage during the day, and the following cutscene remain consistent as per doa U which overides Doa 2

-And you are msiing the point, the stages do not chnge right before eye's like ayane's cutscene.



Again, offer a source, I'm not taking conjecture as evidence.There is no reason to belive that Hayate beat hayabusa until a source is offered and my points are refuted.

Until than Kazuya could clear it if he rest, but dies if he doesn't.
Are you serious? You own the games. Do you really want me to waste time looking around youtube to show the that stages are at night/day like I said?

Actually, the moutain was just leveled. The castle could be on the other side of the mountain for all we know.

Even still if what you are saying were to be true. If Ayane defeated Omega at the castle, Hayate still had to beat Hayabusa. Had Hayabusa won, Hayabusa would have encountered Genra or even Ayane.

There is a reason. The only way Hayate could have fought Ayane is to bypass Hayabusa. By your own admission, Genra is defeated at the very same castle where Hayabusa and Hayate fought. If Hayabusa won, he would have fought Genra or Ayane.

Kazuya might beat Hayate. How does he get past the others? I still haven't had any of my points regarding that refuted either. Everyone just keeps bringing up Kazuya fighting Jacks, which the ninja could easily do, and falling off of a cliff. The cliff "feat" is another one the ninja could replicate. Kazuya has strength over them. That's it. How does he win?

I'm off to work. Be back on later tonight.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Are you serious? You own the games. Do you really want me to waste time looking around youtube to show the that stages are at night/day like I said?

I don't own Doa 2 anymore. . .


Originally posted by StyleTime

Actually, the moutain was just leveled. The castle could be on the other side of the mountain for all we know.

And, what happned to the Snow, Daylight, and weather?
Originally posted by StyleTime

Even still if what you are saying were to be true. If Ayane defeated Omega at the castle, Hayate still had to beat Hayabusa. Had Hayabusa won, Hayabusa would have encountered Genra or even Ayane.

Ayane could kill genra before 'Busa got the chance.


Originally posted by StyleTime

There is a reason. The only way Hayate could have fought Ayane is to bypass Hayabusa. By your own admission, Genra is defeated at the very same castle where Hayabusa and Hayate fought. If Hayabusa won, he would have fought Genra or Ayane.

Like I said before, Ayane could have taken him out during their bout.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
-Genra can change the enviorment based on what, where's your source for all these claims?

-Actually, look at the video's Xeno, especially the one featuring the genra boss fight. See the remains of the castle scattered all over the area. Unless you can offer some proof to your "Genra changing the enviorment, and leaving debris of Azuchi Castle" theory, it will remain as unbased conjecture.




No, it does, it doesn't say anyhting about the finals or this ability that you've given Genra.






So, Ayane randomly showed up during the Hayate's fight, magicaly altered the weather and time, then genra changed it back?





Prove it -Apparently you did not watch the video which is this one:gd1zZDLZB-A

-It seems you don't realize the cutscene where Hayabusa sees Genra never happened, considering the scene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage did. In fact, Genra's stage doesn't necessarily have to be one stage. He can travel where he wants to. Also, where's your proof that the stage had remains of the castle? Never mind the scene where Ryu sees Genra isn't canon whereas the cutscene where Ayane meets Genra is.

-Genra changed his surroundings. Watch the video and you'd know at first the stage was during the day and was filled with snow, and then the stage was dark and burnt with a ring of fire as a boundary.

-Um, no. Ayane showed up before Hayate had a chance to fight Genra.

-Lol, you're telling me to prove a cutscene that happened in the game is canonical. lmfao

Originally posted by Xenogears
-Apparently you did not watch the video which is this one:gd1zZDLZB-A


I did watch the vid and nowhere did it say anything about them being in the semi-finals.

Originally posted by Xenogears

-It seems you don't realize the cutscene where Hayabusa sees Genra never happened, considering the scene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage did.
Prove it, link me to a source supporting your claim.

Originally posted by Xenogears

In fact, Genra's stage doesn't necessarily have to be one stage. He can travel where he wants to.

Not what I'm asking, how does: The snow magical vanish, The time of Day magically changes, And the piece's of debirs magically appear?


Originally posted by Xenogears


Also, where's your proof that the stage had remains of the castle?
-Despite the fact you can clearly see the debris in the boss fight
-Omega always destroys the castle before he fights, with the exception of ayane's stroy mode.
-The castle ground can be seen in ayane's ending

Originally posted by Xenogears

Never mind the scene where Ryu sees Genra isn't canon whereas the cutscene where Ayane meets Genra is.
Prove it

Originally posted by Xenogears

-Genra changed his surroundings. Watch the video and you'd know at first the stage was during the day and was filled with snow, and then the stage was dark and burnt with a ring of fire as a boundary.

Yet, the remains of the castle magically appear?

Originally posted by Xenogears

-Um, no. Ayane showed up before Hayate had a chance to fight Genra.

Because hayate was beaten


Originally posted by Xenogears


-Lol, you're telling me to prove a cutscene that happened in the game is canonical. lmfao yes

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Ayane could kill genra before 'Busa got the chance.Impossible. It's been retconned the scene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage happened right after Ayane defeated Hayate, which was in the snow stage. With that considered, Hayate's bout with Ryu happened prior to this. Had Hayate lost, he would not've confronted Ayane in the snow stage (where Genra was), and he did. Hayabusa would've done so considering he was willing to kill Genra from the start (Don't ask for proof of this. The fact that he participated in the tournament for that reason explains it).

Originally posted by Xenogears
Impossible. It's been retconned the scene where Ayane meets Genra in the snow stage happened right after Ayane defeated Hayate, which was in the snow stage. With that considered, Hayate's bout with Ryu happened prior to this. Had Hayate lost, he would not've confronted Ayane in the snow stage (where Genra was), and he did. Hayabusa would've done so considering he was willing to kill Genra from the start (Don't ask for proof of this. The fact that he participated in the tournament for that reason explains it).
P-R-O-V-E I-T

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I did watch the vid and nowhere did it say anything about them being in the semi-finals.


Prove it, link me to a source supporting your claim.



Not what I'm asking, how does: The snow magical vanish, The time of Day magically changes, And the piece's of debirs magically appear?



-Despite the fact you can clearly see the debris in the boss fight
-Omega always destroys the castle before he fights, with the exception of ayane's stroy mode.
-The castle ground can be seen in ayane's ending


Prove it



Yet, the remains of the castle magically appear?



Because hayate was beaten


yes Let's see. All the scenes where ANY doa fighter meets Genra is noncanonical. That means, Jann Lee meeting Genra isn't. Hayabusa meeting Genra isn't. Tina meeting Genra isn't. Gen Fu meeting Genra isn't, etc. The only one that is canonical is Ayane's, since she's the one who actually defeated Genra. With that considered, Genra did changed the snow change as shown in the video. Thank you.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
P-R-O-V-E I-T Ayane defeated Genra, and she met Genra in the snow stage. Funny how you try to go against established facts.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Ayane defeated Genra, and she met Genra in the snow stage. Funny how you try to go against established facts.

If it's established then you can get me a source.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I don't own Doa 2 anymore. . .

And, what happned to the Snow, Daylight, and weather?

Ayane could kill genra before 'Busa got the chance.

Like I said before, Ayane could have taken him out during their bout.
Oh. What happened to it? I'd die if I lost one of my DOA games lol.

It was large explosion. A dust cloud may be thrown up for the duration of the fight. Also, Itagaki may just be dumb.

I must say Emperor Ashtar I consider you one of the more sensible posters on this forum. I realize that you wouldn't bring something like this up if you didn't have reason to actually doubt it. However, you must understand why Hayabusa losing simply had to occur for the story to actually progress.

I ask you to bear with me as I go through this. As with any other DOA game, the character who defeated the boss has the canon storymode. For example, we know Hayabusa defeated Kasumi and Hayate in DOA2 because he had to before confronting Tengu. The story mode of any character who didn't make it to the boss are canonical up to the point of their defeat. Examples of this include: Gen Fu didn't win DOA3 because he lost to Zack; Ayane didn't fight Hayate in DOA2 because she lost to Kasumi; Kasumi didn't fight Hayate in DOA2 because she lost Hayabusa.

Now we all already acknowledged that Ayane defeated Genra. In true DOA fashion, she has the canon storymode. She faced Kasumi and Hayate prior to confronting her father. Obviously, Kasumi and Hayate were bodily present for their matches against their sister. Again in true DOA fashion, Kasumi's story ends after she lost to Ayane, so Kasumi never fought Hayate in DOA3. Hayate's story also ends after he lost to Ayane. Thusly, Hayate never encounters Genra. However, being that Hayate made it to Ayane, he beat Hayabusa. Hayabusa is Hayate's second bout and a defeat there would mean he wouldn't fight Ayane as is always true of DOA. Also, if Hayabusa did beat Hayate, he would encounter Genra as Hayabusa's story mode demonstrated. Ayane also couldn't defeat Genra during Hayate vs Hayabusa because she fought Hayate herself before Genra.

Emperor Ashtar, your points did make me think a little. I understood your doubt and I even went and played through storymode on several different DOA games to try and apply what you said. Despite my efforts, I keep finding the same thing true. The only possible way that Ayane defeated Genra was to beat Hayate after he beat Hayabusa. It really is the only way that the storymodes sync together to allow Ayane to defeat Genra.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Oh. What happened to it? I'd die if I lost one of my DOA games lol.

I've actually lost or given away all my gaming system plus games. I don't really play video games much anymore ever since the end of the dreamcast & PS2.


Originally posted by StyleTime

I must say Emperor Ashtar I consider you one of the more sensible posters on this forum. I realize that you wouldn't bring something like this up if you didn't have reason to actually doubt it. However, you must understand why Hayabusa losing simply had to occur for the story to actually progress..


Yes, but it really seems dubiuos for Team Ninja to make it appear as if Hayabusa and Hayate are about to fight in the finals. They even present the match in the correct stage and capture the seqeunce of events in a beliveable manner. Then suddenly claim that a cutscene featuring Ayane takes Priority over the former despite having the wrong scenery, Weather, Time, and Area. Infact the area the fight takes place on and the ending contradicts said cutscene entirely.


Originally posted by StyleTime

I ask you to bear with me as I go through this. As with any other DOA game, the character who defeated the boss has the canon storymode. For example, we know Hayabusa defeated Kasumi and Hayate in DOA2 because he had to before confronting Tengu.

Yes, But the cutscene's in hayabusa's story mode actually make sense.

Originally posted by StyleTime

The story mode of any character who didn't make it to the boss are canonical up to the point of their defeat. Examples of this include: Gen Fu didn't win DOA3 because he lost to Zack; Ayane didn't fight Hayate in DOA2 because she lost to Kasumi; Kasumi didn't fight Hayate in DOA2 because she lost Hayabusa.

Gen-Fu lost to zack?!

I remeber they had some sort of dialogue in DOA 3 about money or some sort. I never figured he would lose to Zack of all people.



Originally posted by StyleTime


Now we all already acknowledged that Ayane defeated Genra. In true DOA fashion, she has the canon storymode. She faced Kasumi and Hayate prior to confronting her father.

I've heard that she faced Hayate prior to the tournament, but that's just hearsay which I cannot confirm. Though, it makes alot more sense than hayabusa losing than hayate fighting Ayane.


Originally posted by StyleTime


Obviously, Kasumi and Hayate were bodily present for their matches against their sister. Again in true DOA fashion, Kasumi's story ends after she lost to Ayane, so Kasumi never fought Hayate in DOA3. Hayate's story also ends after he lost to Ayane. Thusly, Hayate never encounters Genra. However, being that Hayate made it to Ayane, he beat Hayabusa. Hayabusa is Hayate's second bout and a defeat there would mean he wouldn't fight Ayane as is always true of DOA. Also, if Hayabusa did beat Hayate, he would encounter Genra as Hayabusa's story mode demonstrated. Ayane also couldn't defeat Genra during Hayate vs Hayabusa because she fought Hayate herself before Genra.

Emperor Ashtar, your points did make me think a little. I understood your doubt and I even went and played through storymode on several different DOA games to try and apply what you said. Despite my efforts, I keep finding the same thing true. The only possible way that Ayane defeated Genra was to beat Hayate after he beat Hayabusa. It really is the only way that the storymodes sync together to allow Ayane to defeat Genra.
Then what I perviously posted applies, Team Ninja is stupid.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
If it's established then you can get me a source. Seemingly, you're saying Ayane's ending never happened, if you're implying that the cutscene where she meets Genra prior to killing him didn't. Ayane's story mode is the correct story mode, from start to finish. Hayabusa's is not.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Seemingly, you're saying Ayane's ending never happened, if you're implying that the cutscene where she meets Genra prior to killing him didn't. Ayane's story mode is the correct story mode, from start to finish. Hayabusa's is not.
Don't put words in my mouth, the cutscene simply makes no sense.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Gen-Fu lost to zack?!

I remeber they had some sort of dialogue in DOA 3 about money or some sort. I never figured he would lose to Zack of all people.

Then what I perviously posted applies, Team Ninja is stupid.
Yeah. I wish I could find that interview. Itagaki came in and actually answered all these questions around the time that DOAXBV came out. He was the one who told us Ayane defeated Omega.
Originally posted by Xenogears
Seemingly, you're saying Ayane's ending never happened, if you're implying that the cutscene where she meets Genra prior to killing him didn't. Ayane's story mode is the correct story mode, from start to finish. Hayabusa's is not.
I could be wrong, but I think Emperor Ashtar does realize that Hayabusa simply had to lose for DOA3 to actually proceed the way it did. He is just pointing out the fact that...
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Team Ninja is stupid.
Which is something I can definitely agree with.

Originally posted by Xenogears
LMAO

Hayate also knows karate.
He's still a ninja though and was a ninja before he knew karate.

You'd think Kaz would walk this, being the ultimate badass and everything, and he could have these guys one on one no problem. However, of late Kaz never really finishes anything right, and gets beat up by his kid and his daddy. I think a psycholgical barrier is holding him back. If he can get some counselling then he wins.

I agree.

Kazuya should be a beast, but mr. one dimensional boring Kazama is the poster boy, and as such he makes Kazuya job.

I hate Jin.

*Will never stop saying it*

Originally posted by Mr Dude
I think a psycholgical barrier is holding him back.
If by "psychological barrier" you mean "Namco", you are correct.

Jin has the potential to be awesome. He just needs to get chucked into a volcano or something.

Originally posted by StyleTime
If by "psychological barrier" you mean "Namco", you are correct.
They do have a really disproportionately large hardon for Jin.

Jin's Kazuya's damn son, for crying out loud. It's not really a wonder why he has the potential to beat him. Secondly, Jin was full of rage in T4, and the Devil Gene was somewhat active when he took him down. Kazuya's Devil was also somewhat active in T4. They are very close in terms of power. Jin's just a step above him.

By T5, Jin was powerful enough to take down Jinpachi without the use of the Devil Gene.

It reeks of BS.

Kazuya spent 20 years mastering his control over the Devil gene, and all of that does nothing when he is pit against Jin Kazama.

By the way You don't know if Jin is the one who actually beat Jinpachi. Though in all probability, since Namco's boring like that, he probably did. However as far as I know it hasn't been confirmed Jin beat Jinpachi. **** if Jin was the one who beat Jinpachi it reeks of even more PIS.

Didn't you know?

http://www.tekkenforces.com/tekken6_0.html

Jin won T5.

Also, it's not BS. Namco made Jin that powerful. The fact that he can take down Kazuya and Devil Jinpachi in his normal state proves that he's strong, that strong.

Wow.

Namco can blow me.

Screw Tekken & Jin Kazama.

*Walks inside Kazuya shrine and commits suicide*

Where does that site gets its info from? Can we trust it?

I am still keeping my fingers crossed for Paul beating Jinpachi.

Well, Paul Pheonix IS the Tekken equivalent to Chuck Norris

*Speaks from the afterlife*

I checked Tekken Zaibatsu and they have the same story and profiles, so I guess it's true.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
*Speaks from the afterlife*

I checked Tekken Zaibatsu and they have the same story and profiles, so I guess it's true. LMAO

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
*Speaks from the afterlife*

I checked Tekken Zaibatsu and they have the same story and profiles, so I guess it's true.



Why am I laughing? This is sad.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Wow.

Namco can blow me.

Screw Tekken & Jin Kazama.

*Walks inside Kazuya shrine and commits suicide* Originally posted by Superboy Prime
*Speaks from the afterlife*

I checked Tekken Zaibatsu and they have the same story and profiles, so I guess it's true.

yeah...being tossed into a volcano and then being brought back to life tends to make you a little weird. he needs to get laid again. Where is Jun damn it?!


Jin is becoming cooler now. at least he's become badass now, is destroying the world...finally following in his daddy's footsteps.
but Tekken6: Kazuya thrashes Jin and lets him know who the REAL badass is.
WHO IS WITH ME?!! KAZUYA! KAZUYA! KAZUYA!


no not really. Kaz didn't become devil to fight Jin. Jin became devil while pounding Hachi. okay you people need to know this:
-kazuya and devil have a split personality thing going. everytime one of them is a little vulnerable, the other takes over. this was CLEARLY shown in Tekken4 ending of the mishimas. Kazuya sees Jin, is surprised (as shown in Hachi ending) and Devil takes over. Devil tries to change Jin but mamasboy mama's surmom power stops it. Devil is shocked...and Kazuya takes over. after that he is Kazuya and not devil.
Jin wakes up and smacks him. it wasn't Devil that Jin beat.


all the kazuya shrines are burnt down....instead of his pictures and avatars we only get Jin's
but i like Jin (bring it on!). at least his story looks cool now in Tekken6.

*in heaven Superboy sells his soul to the Devil and returns as Devil Boy Prime to kick my @$$*

~Sado Kazama

Originally posted by Xenogears
Well, Paul Pheonix IS the Tekken equivalent to Chuck Norris
Originally posted by Sado22
WHO IS WITH ME?!! KAZUYA! KAZUYA! KAZUYA!

I guess everyone thinks I'm joking.

I am not kidding. I want Paul to win a Tekken tournament. I want Paul to be the one to take down the boss. I want Paul to beat the hell out of Jin. I want Paul to get ownership of Mishima Zaibatsu.

He deserves it.

i agree. i was happy when paul got a bit of a character development in Tekken4 ending telling us what a fighter's pride is all about. it was nice to see the serious, fighter side of Paul and understand how much fighting really means to him and how devoted he is. THAT deserves respect and he gets it from me................and what does Namco do after all this: make him a total idiot in Tekken5. I was so pissedoff when I saw his ending (it was funny but i looked like Paul was being cheated again). Paul is the original sidekick of the series and he deserves respect.

~Phoenix Smasher Sado-sama

Plus after Tekken 3, I mean damn Namco. Just let Paul have the title and stop riding Jin. Jin would be just as happy writing dark poetry about how bad life is on his myspace as he would winning Tekken.

"Gawd" I hate Jin . . .

If he's evil in Tekken 6, then I can dig him. Until then, Jin sucks.

*Haunts the Jin lovers for all eternity*

I taught about it and I think I might like an evil Jin if it's Kazuya who takes him down ala Kaz/Hei inTekken 2.

That would kick ass.

But following Namco logic he'll whoop all ass without fighting, while holding back and with no memory of how he just oneshotted the entire planet out of orbit.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime


I taught about it and I think I might like an evil Jin if it's Kazuya who takes him down ala Kaz/Hei inTekken 2.
Hey! That's not a bad idea, Kazuya is the new Hachi, Jin is the new Kaz and Hachi as the new Pachi.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
But following Namco logic he'll whoop all ass without fighting, while holding back and with no memory of how he just oneshotted the entire planet out of orbit.
Lmao.
Originally posted by King Nothing
Hey! That's not a bad idea, Kazuya is the new Hachi, Jin is the new Kaz and Hachi as the new Pachi.
So...Paul becomes the new Jin.

Originally posted by StyleTime


So...Paul becomes the new Jin. Man. . .hell no! Puals better then that.

Nah...
Jin becomes the new Kaz
Kaz becomes the new Hachi (god i hope he isn't wearing a thong like daddy in T6 )
Hachi becomes the new Roger (with kazuya smacking him through the ceiling)
who is with me:
kazuya should kill hachi
kazuya should kill hachi
kazuya should kill hachi

~Sado

Originally posted by StyleTime


Plus after Tekken 3, I mean damn Namco. Just let Paul have the title and stop riding Jin. Jin would be just as happy writing dark poetry about how bad life is on his myspace as he would winning Tekken. LMAO! I just had an image of that.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
But following Namco logic he'll whoop all ass without fighting, while holding back and with no memory of how he just oneshotted the entire planet out of orbit. Yup, seems a lot like Jin. In fact, he falls on female busts and still isn't able to recall a thing that occured to him, gets knocked back several meters and slams into a boulder asking what it was all about
Originally posted by StyleTime
So...Paul becomes the new Jin. Emo Paul? j/k
Originally posted by Sado22
Nah...
Jin becomes the new KazSounds badass..
Originally posted by Sado22
Kaz becomes the new Hachi (god i hope he isn't wearing a thong like daddy in T6 )LMAO
Originally posted by Sado22
Hachi becomes the new Roger (with kazuya smacking him through the ceiling)LMFAO
Originally posted by Sado22
who is with me:
kazuya should kill hachi
kazuya should kill hachi
kazuya should kill hachi

~SadoI doubt Namco will ever make Heihachi die.