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This is really not a vs thread, but i felt this is the right place to but this topic because it regards the VS forum.
OK, i have thinking of this for a while concerning character that can speed blitz.
Lets use Magneto Vs Wonder Woman for and example...
Most people on the forum would give Diana the majority for sure due to her overall speed advantage. She probably can end the match before Magneto can think..

according to forum rules, Tron states that:
Concerning Super speed
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

Diana obviously can move much faster than 30 meters/sec. So would she be able to shit stomp Magneto before he can think. Right? ...MAYBE..
this is wat i think.. wouldn't Diana have to make a conscious decision to speed blitz Magneto? wouldn't her thoughts also be at the rate of 30m/sec?
If its true Magneto wouldn't be at a disadvantage because he can conjure up a defence (shields) at the same time diana starts the speed blitz, because they think at the same rates.. can his defences can negate the speed blitz?
What do u guys think?

Many speedsters can think and react faster than a normal human.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Many speedsters can think and react faster than a normal human.
reaction speed and thinking speed are totally diffrent things..reactions are automatic, for instance dodgeing a punch.
I know there are many characters that can think in high speeds, (e.g. Surfer, Flash, superman ect.)
But do all characters that can speed blitz shown that they can think in superspeed? i highly doubt that.

I didm't say all I said many. To blitz a character generally needs more than just linear speed they have to be able to think at those speeds so that they can fight at them.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I didm't say all I said many. To blitz a character generally needs more than just linear speed they have to be able to think at those speeds so that they can fight at them.
I would say when fighting not much thinking is used, we usually use our reactions to guide us in fighting.
My first post is in regards to the beginning of the match up before the fight actually takes place.
I would think a blitzer with normal thinking speeds would need to make a conscious effort to speed blitz.

I think it states on panel that Magneto's 14x faster than normal human speed of thought.

and superspeed would be practically useless (at best) or downright dangerous, at worst, if the person imbued with it were not capable of receiving and processing information at speeds inexcess of their physical velocity. or else every speedy character would kill themselves by tripping over, smacking into objects, falling off cliffs/bridges etc...

whether consciously intended or not, I think all speedsters demonstrate a capacity to think faster than the normal human.

Originally posted by janus77
I think it states on panel that Magneto's 14x faster than normal human speed of thought.

and superspeed would be practically useless (at best) or downright dangerous, at worst, if the person imbued with it were not capable of receiving and processing information at speeds inexcess of their physical velocity. or else every speedy character would kill themselves by tripping over, smacking into objects, falling off cliffs/bridges etc...

whether consciously intended or not, I think all speedsters demonstrate a capacity to think faster than the normal human.

Was this ever said about Diana, though??

Originally posted by janus77
I think it states on panel that Magneto's 14x faster than normal human speed of thought.
True, i was gonna mention that later actually.

Originally posted by janus77
and superspeed would be practically useless (at best) or downright dangerous, at worst, if the person imbued with it were not capable of receiving and processing information at speeds inexcess of their physical velocity. or else every speedy character would kill themselves by tripping over, smacking into objects, falling off cliffs/bridges etc...
Not nesserarilly, their reations help them navigate them selves while usinf super speed.
Take a nascar driver for instance, their reactions helps them navigate, and not crash into other cars/walls ect.

Originally posted by janus77
whether consciously intended or not, I think all speedsters demonstrate a capacity to think faster than the normal human.
maybe, which is why i want to find out for sure.

I don't think they'll really ever focus much on such things. it's a given. you can't operate that fast without the mental speed.

this is all far too 'rigorous' for comics, they fall into absurdity under such analysis.

Flash thinks faster than light, Surfer thinks faster than light, Magneto thinks 14x faster than a normal human... but Surfer and Flash should just either 1) see the past or 2) see nothing, as they move at such speeds that light cannot reach them from an object before they've passed the object...

I just dont think that we should give a person the absoulute advantage over people that can put up a defence..the whole "(speedster) would blitz (the other guy) before he can think" bothers me...
wouldent the speedster have to think to make the speed blitz happen in the first place?

Originally posted by Priest



Take a nascar driver for instance, their reactions helps them navigate, and not crash into other cars/walls ect.

They're on a TRACK. A track that's symmetrical and goes in the same basic direction.

225 is NOT an indication of superhuman reaction speeds...


ALL speedsters can think, react and act a superhuman speeds.

Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman are all capable of processing information at superhuman speeds. They simply think faster than a normal human being.

Since Flash can move and act at lightspeed, he requires to THINK at lightspeed. Which he has shown.

Same with Superman and Wonder Woman. You cannot have superspeed without superspeed thought processing. It's not possible....

Originally posted by Priest
I just dont think that we should give a person the absoulute advantage over people that can put up a defence..the whole "(speedster) would blitz (the other guy) before he can think" bothers me...
wouldent the speedster have to think to make the speed blitz happen in the first place?

Yes. Duh. They think faster than one without superspeed or superhuman thought processing like Ultron or Vision.

Flash can read a book on geo-thermal physics in a pico-second and can understand the material in that same amount of time. Superman and Diana have shown the same ability.

And reaction is key to speedblitz. The bell rings. The one with superhuman reactions is going to REACT faster to the start of the battle than the other opponent.

Like a race...

Originally posted by Draco69
They're on a TRACK. A track that's symmetrical and goes in the same basic direction.

225 is NOT an indication of superhuman reaction speeds...
It was just a realt world exaple that was using...Nascar Drives do use reactions to outmanuier and avoid other driver in a track btw.

Originally posted by Draco69
ALL speedsters can think, react and act a superhuman speeds.
Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman are all capable of processing information at superhuman speeds. They simply think faster than a normal human being.

Since Flash can move and act at lightspeed, he requires to THINK at lightspeed. Which he has shown.

Who says that all speedsters posses superspeed?
flash has already establish himself for thing at superspeeds, im not arguing agaisnt that... Superman and Silver Surfer has shown that they can think in super speed on pannel as well.

Originally posted by Draco69
Same with Superman and Wonder Woman. You cannot have superspeed without superspeed thought processing. It's not possible....

i would say you would need super reaction speeds rather than superthought speeds to use super speed.
If all Speedsters posses super thought speeds wouldent someone like Martian Manhunter would wtf pawn the shit out of Batman in a battle of wits?

Originally posted by Draco69
Yes. Duh. They think faster than one without superspeed or superhuman thought processing like Ultron or Vision.
Their both androids to that really dosent count.

Originally posted by Draco69
Flash can read a book on geo-thermal physics in a pico-second and can understand the material in that same amount of time. Superman and Diana have shown the same ability.
cool, i knew superman and flash had the ablity to think in super speed. I dident know diana was capable of that tho, thanks for clearing that up.

Originally posted by Draco69
And reaction is key to speedblitz. The bell rings. The one with superhuman reactions is going to REACT faster to the start of the battle than the other opponent.
Like a race...
good point, i like the example of the ring bell, kinda reminds me of a track race...
I dident take that into account when i started this thread.
So a guess speedsters can blitz a person before he/she can react..but that dosent mean that ALL speedsters can think in super speeds.

I doubt Diana would speedblitz him.

http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thexmenvstheavengers042xb7.jpg

haermm

I don't think you can distinguish reaction speed and speed of thought to that degree...

when a racecar driver is going round and round and round, the whole track basically burns itself into his memory and he is free to think about other things... if suddenly, there is a blowout of a wheel on a car a half mile ahead of him, he has to instantly react (that's learned response I would imagine) by swerving, slowing down and finding a safe 'lane'. if instead of having to react, he was having to catch up with a tricky competitor and was stuck between traffic, he would have to think of the most efficient lap he could do, the pit stop schedule that would be most advantageous, the best way to use on-coming traffic to shorten the distance between hiimself and his competitor... in short he would have to process the information regarding his situation, formulate a set of actions that would affect his environment such that he would obtain his desired goal and then execute this plan whilst constantly being alert to any and every fluctuation in the variables he weighed up as part of his 'formulation' time...

^^ thinking pretty much includes reaction, as well as alertness (reflex speeds) to the potential need to re-formulate ... that constant state of processing information and evaluating it against the set of data used as the basis for the on-going plan...


a thought about the speedsters 'pawning' physiologically limited geniuses... it doesn't matter how much faster their thought processes are if they cannot think powerfully or grasp large concepts.

imagine a 32bit 800mhz processor with a 256kb cache and a 64bit 500mhz processor with a 1mb cache. the former is far faster at raw processing, but unfortunately all its instructions have to be twice as simple as for the latter. many ideas just cannot be simplified any further... Flash could read Satre at lightspeed, Batman could take an afternoon, Flash would understand that Satre was a French guy who probably didn't have enough sex, Batman would perhaps see a little deeper.

Nascar drivers do not travel at superspeeds....as opposed to comic book characters. No Nascar driver could react quickly enough if he was traveling at light speeds...because he wouldn't have time to react....going 225 mph....it isn't a fast enough speed to hinder a driver's reaction process....unless something just ran out in front of him.

Even in Star Trek....the starships plot a particular course before jumping into hyper space....to avoid running through stars and whatnot

Comic books obviously have aspects of physics that would be frowned (and many times outrightly laughed at) in the real world, however there are some graphic novels/comics that try to capture at least some essence (even though at times it is but an iota) of science. While there are many comics that at times just go to extreme idiocy, some do try to add a veneer of science (even though it is mostly pseudo-science) to the mix.

The Flash (and for that matter most writing on speedsters, be they DC, Marvel or Other) do try to have some taints of science going on. For instance in Flash the SpeedForce is DC's way of getting rid of a lot of scientific sin (while it is a deus ex machina tool, it still does enable them to get rid of many 'irritating' real-world aspects like friction and hyper-velocity obliteration of surrounding ----for instance if the Flash, or say a super-dense person like Superman, was to fly/run through a city at Mach 5 - no need for them to go ANYWHERE NEAR their top speed since the 'relatively slow' speed of Mach 5 could do - then what would happen is that every person within a certain radius would suffer punctured eardrums, and any person within a closer radius would die from lung collapse. It is interesting to read about the effects of Napalm use in Viet Nam when the detonation of the device would suck out all the air in the immediate vicinity - anyone who wasn't incinerated by the burning gel would suffer horrid effects due to the vacuum created).

Anyways, the short answer to your speed blitz question is this - for speedblitz to be effective the character possessing the ability must ALSO be able to use it with some degree of efficacy.

What does that mean?

It means that the character must be able to think at those speeds, react at those speeds, and so on. Without that all his/her/its speed is absolutely USELESS.

Imagine if I gave you the ability to run at hypersonic speed (say Mach 5 .....whcih while extremely fast is nowhere near the speed that characters like Superman and Flash can go at), but you still possess your normal thinking and reaction speed!

What would happen?

Well ....you would take one step and find yourself squished into a dozen different things!

Speed without control is worse than useless.

Anyways, another way of looking at it is the quickdraw of a revolver. Imagine a duel between two people at high noon. Both a good with their six-shooters, but one of them has amazing reflexes (imagine super-speed) and amazing muscular contraction speed.

What happens?

If both are equally good shots, the faster one will ALWAYS win.

Not only is his speed faster, but his thinking is too.

Anyways, for a speedster to be a speedster his thinking speed has to be (at least) equal to his engagement speed. If you can run at Mach 500, but your thinking ability can only work up to Mach 5, then you cannot say you can run at Mach 500 ....you ARE limited to Mach 5.
Why?
Because if you run even at Mach 6 (let alone Mach 500) you will run into all sorts of things because you would be moving one whole Mach number faster than your thinking can handle.

Anyways, while there are some people who do not like the whole speedblitz concept (for instance Hulk fans hate it since it is harder for them to say that the dumb green brute can defeat someone like the thin gangly Flash), the fact still remains that speedsters are some of the more lethal characters in comicdom.

Theres an issue of Flash where he is sort or racing Superman, and he points out while Superman is moving almost has fast as him Superman's perception hasn't yet shifted up to his, which suggests their perception/thought process speeds up the faster they are moving, and is not always going at lightspeed or whatever.

Originally posted by Draco69
Yes. Duh. They think faster than one without superspeed or superhuman thought processing like Ultron or Vision.

Flash can read a book on geo-thermal physics in a pico-second and can understand the material in that same amount of time. Superman and Diana have shown the same ability.

And reaction is key to speedblitz. The bell rings. The one with superhuman reactions is going to REACT faster to the start of the battle than the other opponent.

Like a race...

Spot on your are absouletly right the notion that you have to think to use super speed sure of course you do. The notion that guys like Superman and wonderwoman think at the rate of guys like magneto and the likes.