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a place to describe your list of personal favourites in the rpg{or any subcategory} category, discuss them etc or recommend rpg's current or old.


my personal favourites are

final fantasy 9/crono cross
final fantasy 6/crono trigger
final fantasy 7/ vagrant story/ xenogears
dark cloud 2/shadow hearts covenant
dot hack series
kingdom hearts 1/2
okami/zelda series

add to that the entire XENOSAGA SERIES{specially 3}
SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI NOCTURNE AND the 2 digital devil sagas
shadow hearts 1 and also ROGUE GALAXY.

Phantasy Star especally the 4th one.

Elder scrolls series, especiall 3 and 4
Diablo games, perhaps some of the best selling Rpgs as well
Hellgate london is going to be Ace but its not out yet so meh lol
God of war is a good one, imo the best ps2 game and its sequel

Final Fantasy VI is my favorite.

Chrono Trigger follows, as does some of the other FF games.

Tales of the Abyss definitely deserves to be noted.

A series that is, in my opinion, better than FF, and TotA is the best of the series.

Diablo isn't an RPG any more than Gauntlet was. The term 'RP' is stretched to breaking point on computers as it is- you don't play a role in Final Fantasy at all, it is mroe of an interactive story. KOTOR and Baldur's Gate are closer to the RP title. But regardless, if you call Diablo an RP, then so is... Doom. it just doesn't fit.

BG2 is definitely up there.

Final Fantasy IX.

First RPG I actually got into and finished.

Besides Pokemon. haermm

Xenogears. nuff said.

WoW

Terranigma is my favourite. I really, really enjoyed the Golden Sun series too.

OBLIVION

legend of legaia forever

Final Fantasy IV

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Diablo isn't an RPG any more than Gauntlet was. The term 'RP' is stretched to breaking point on computers as it is- you don't play a role in Final Fantasy at all, it is mroe of an interactive story. KOTOR and Baldur's Gate are closer to the RP title. But regardless, if you call Diablo an RP, then so is... Doom. it just doesn't fit.

I thought the common idea of what an RPG is just involves stats and having to 'level up' or progress the characters power in some way?

I mean you do assume the role of the main character in some final fantasies

as for Diablo you assume the role of some random hero looking to turn the tide of the sin war

but I guess thats why you have the hybrid genres.. action / rpg and so on

HALO 2 IS BY FAR T3H B3ST RPG EVAH!!!111!!!

ok..id say anything in the final fantasy series that ive played (that is, 6,7,8,X,X2)

Oasis on saturn

fallout PC

FFX PS2

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
HALO 2 IS BY FAR T3H B3ST RPG EVAH!!!111!!!

yeah, that is a fun first person shooter isnt it

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Diablo isn't an RPG any more than Gauntlet was. The term 'RP' is stretched to breaking point on computers as it is- you don't play a role in Final Fantasy at all, it is mroe of an interactive story. KOTOR and Baldur's Gate are closer to the RP title. But regardless, if you call Diablo an RP, then so is... Doom. it just doesn't fit.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I thought the common idea of what an RPG is just involves stats and having to 'level up' or progress the characters power in some way?

I mean you do assume the role of the main character in some final fantasies

as for Diablo you assume the role of some random hero looking to turn the tide of the sin war

but I guess thats why you have the hybrid genres.. action / rpg and so on

well, if it counts as an rpg, than diablo is very high on my list

so many nights of chilling in harrogath talkin with friends

yea
*remembers good ol' days*

*sits and remembers with you guys* *sigh*

i wish i could find my lod cd key

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I thought the common idea of what an RPG is just involves stats and having to 'level up' or progress the characters power in some way?

I mean you do assume the role of the main character in some final fantasies

as for Diablo you assume the role of some random hero looking to turn the tide of the sin war

but I guess thats why you have the hybrid genres.. action / rpg and so on

That is no more role-playing than than you assuming the role of Gordon Freeman in Half-Life or the role of a Human commander in Starcraft.

Nor does levelling up/progressing in power make an RP, for several reasons, First of all, plenty of shoot-em ups have your ship, for example, becoming more powerful. They are not RPs. Secondly, RPs don't always involve you powering up during the game; this does not stop them being RPS. And frankly thirdly... just think, logically. The term 'role-playing' simply has no connection with what you say,

If Diablo used guns instead of swords, if you clicked on an area of the map and shot it, everyone would call it a shoot-'em up. But just because you have to get close it is called an RP? Nonsense, it is a pure action game.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That is no more role-playing than than you assuming the role of Gordon Freeman in Half-Life or the role of a Human commander in Starcraft.

Nor does levelling up/progressing in power make an RP, for several reasons, First of all, plenty of shoot-em ups have your ship, for example, becoming more powerful. They are not RPs. Secondly, RPs don't always involve you powering up during the game; this does not stop them being RPS. And frankly thirdly... just think, logically. The term 'role-playing' simply has no connection with what you say,

If Diablo used guns instead of swords, if you clicked on an area of the map and shot it, everyone would call it a shoot-'em up. But just because you have to get close it is called an RP? Nonsense, it is a pure action game.


yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element

I think KOTOR wouldnt be much of a role playing game if it didnt have stat increasing items / skill point systems... if it only had the choice dialogue it may as well have been a full FMV game where you pick "choice A" or "Choice B" to alter the storyline

"yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element"

Did you bother to read my second paragraph? It;s just a way if increasing your killing powerr in Diablo. Like getting a nice new gun.

Without levelling, KOTOR still would have had a fully interactive story, a personality that has in-game efffect that is up to you to define and a conversation system that changes people's attitudes- both your own and others- and affects the game world accordingly. That very much exactkly fits into the role-playing definition.

Levelling does NOT an RP make, and you have become seriously confused about the term if you think it does.

Oh dear...can I just say that I'm sitting here giggling at the fact that people are trying to argue what makes an RP with Ush, of all people?

Hahahahahaha...

Aaaaaaanyway, I'd have to go for FFX as my favorite.

nah, Diablo is an RPG, just an action one, if the creators say it is, then it is, nuff said, "role-playing game".....the only thing it seems you need is to play the role AS a character, so ime playing the role in Diablo as a Barbarian hero to rid the world of evil, its a role playing game still

Half life you play a role, but its far more shooting, its like a RPFPS, but still leveling up and stats is what i would still figuire of a role playing game

The creators can say it is a turnip if they want, it means bugger all. And you simply cxontradict yourself there, saying that the 'only' thing you need to do is play a role, but then going on to say that is not enough in Half-Life. At least try and be consistent.

In what way is Diablo more of an RP than a shooting game? All you do in Diablo is click on bad guys until they are dead and pick up what they leave behind. Your 'advancment' merely gives you more attack modes- just like picking up guns in Half-Life. Why does slashing = RP and shooting = arcade? It's dim nonsense.

In Diablo, you do not control the plot, you cannot converse with people (instead jjust hearing what they say), you cannot affect the game world in any way more significantly than you could in Gauntlet, R-Type, Final Fight, or any darn game where the objective is simply to destroy as many bad guys as possible.

What is this failure of logic that equates the term 'role-playing' with 'game in which you can become more powerful'? That is NOT what the darn phrase means!

It is not enough to just be in a role- that happens in nearly all games. Nor is your personal development anything to do with it, as that happens in lots of games that are nothing like RPs. At the very most, that can be called 'an RPing element', simply because it occurs in many RPs. But association does not mean identification. Lots of FPS games have machine guns in them; this does not mean that only games with Machine guns in them can be FPS games.

An RP game is one where your adoption of that role is one that has an affect on the world around you, rather than being pre-set. Computer RPs are nowhere near in scope with this compared to tabletop games, but they carve out a niche for themselves. BG counts, KOTOR counts, I have serious questions with FF counting but it is on the line. Diablo is way past that line, with the arcade shooter.

A term like 'RP' has to have meaning. If you just make up a random meaning that has nothing to do with what the words mean, you simply do language a disservice an ecnourage great confusion.

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
KOTOR
Jade Empire

Elder Scroll games definitely count. Whether I like them or not, they nail the genre right on the head.

Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold and Silver.

Final Fantasy X.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Final Fantasy does rather toe the line when it comes to being an RP, but really, what else can you call it?

Meh, I'm a sucker for interesting plots and nothing's topped FFX for me on that.

Oblivion is my favourite, I did like Final Fantasy games, but I found the turn based gameplay became tedious. Still never let me down on story line though.

I wouldn't say its the greatest but my favorite would be KOTOR II.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element"

Did you bother to read my second paragraph? It;s just a way if increasing your killing powerr in Diablo. Like getting a nice new gun.

Without levelling, KOTOR still would have had a fully interactive story, a personality that has in-game efffect that is up to you to define and a conversation system that changes people's attitudes- both your own and others- and affects the game world accordingly. That very much exactkly fits into the role-playing definition.

Levelling does NOT an RP make, and you have become seriously confused about the term if you think it does.

fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element

Elderscrolls is most definitely an RPG... you have stat progression, the freedom of choice (killing, stealing, even kill off important plot characters), the 'emotion dial', questlines that give you a good reputation, immediate actions that can pretty much reverse that effect (vampirism), and you can create your own spells from the ground up.. freedom 'is' very necessary when it comes to RPGs, but its not available in all titles (cuz lets face it I dont think any studio spends as much time as bethesda in the developing room).

and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills, and then another how many hours to get gear that will make those skills work, as "time spent playing" is big with RPGs... Formulas are also popular in the RPG genre... calculating defenses, elemental / magic damage, attack / miss rate

.. if you had to buy that new gun with 3,000 currency and each monster you kill drops 20 currency... thats an RPG element

having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?

Originally posted by Lana
Oh dear...can I just say that I'm sitting here giggling at the fact that people are trying to argue what makes an RP with Ush, of all people?

nah, I wouldnt say I'm arguing.. I just find it very interesting to think about what really makes an RPG an RPG... as I do agree the term is abused quite often

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element

Elderscrolls is most definitely an RPG... you have stat progression, the freedom of choice (killing, stealing, even kill off important plot characters), the 'emotion dial', questlines that give you a good reputation, immediate actions that can pretty much reverse that effect (vampirism), and you can create your own spells from the ground up.. freedom 'is' very necessary when it comes to RPGs, but its not available in all titles (cuz lets face it I dont think any studio spends as much time as bethesda in the developing room).

and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills, and then another how many hours to get gear that will make those skills work, as "time spent playing" is big with RPGs... Formulas are also popular in the RPG genre... calculating defenses, elemental / magic damage, attack / miss rate

.. if you had to buy that new gun with 3,000 currency and each monster you kill drops 20 currency... thats an RPG element

having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?

agreed, i think ush garak is wrong of what an RPG is really in this respect, gettin a new gun in half life is nothing comparable to Diablo's gameplay. Ofcourse nobody can Argue with Oblivion being an RP

I can't pin down a concise definition of "role-playing game," but there are some things that all mainstream RPGs have.

A nice long story, usually including a group of nobodies saving the universe.

Several people in a party as opposed to one person going solo.

Those people having personal stats that increase over the course of the game.

Several hundred battles, usually done via a menu system. (Tales games FTW here, action is fun)

Moving from town to town across an entire world, asking complete strangers if they've seen a black-caped man before taking off with all the stuff you took out of their cupboards and barrels right in front of them.

Really, the last is one of the most important.

A little more seriously, RPGs tend to be plot-driven with character development as the main engine for forwarding that plot. The story is always grandiose, and you'll be saving the entire world by the end of the game.

"fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element"

For a start, it is at least making an effort, in whixh respect Diablo does not- you cannot affect the storyline one tiny bit in Diablo. it is pure arcade.

Secondly, you are wrong, because the interrelation of plot and character elements creates a whole lot more than just the two outcomes you mention. That's mis-interpretation.

Thirdly, this comment of yours:

"and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills,"

Is wrong for two reasons- first of all, guns come in tiers as well. Secondly, games like R-Type have a similar progression to get larger weapons, but they are still not RPs. The acquisition of skills and powers as you go along is NOT evidence of an RP. it is evidence of nothing more than progression, which is not necessarily an RP trait.

As for this sentence:

"having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?"

Well, you can say you are wrong, because that would be talking sense. As I mentioned, having a machine gun does not make you an FPS.

What does picking up stuff have to do with RPs? I can pick up stuff in Doom. I can buy stuff in Counterstrike. All of these things are totally away from the point.

Seriously, folks, why don;t any of you consider what the words role-playing game actually MEAN, hmm? You cannot just fit any definition you like. How much more simply can I put it? These... words... have... a... MEANING.

This thread has gone far off topic. You list which RPG's you think are the greatest and that is all.

We're not discussing what makes an RPG, it's been discussed before as well as took other threads off topic before.

If you want to discuss it, then make a thread specifically devoted to that if it hasn't been done already.

That's that. Not another word.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Quit acting like a mod, Innerrise. It's relevant enough.

InnerRise, last I checked you are not a mod. So shut it.

And I would say that discussing what makes something an RP in a thread about RPs...is not at all "far off topic".

InnerRise, how is it possible to discuss the "greatest RPGs of all time" if we don't have a clear definition of what an RPG is?

The discussion is to do exactly that: Defining what counts as an RPG. It is thus relevant to the thread's purpose, and on-topic.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element"

For a start, it is at least making an effort, in whixh respect Diablo does not- you cannot affect the storyline one tiny bit in Diablo. it is pure arcade.

its not pure arcade.. there is way too much content to experience what the game has to offer in one sitting.. only arcade games show their stuff in one play span (such as q3, doom)... and praytell, how vastly can you affect the storyline in KoToR?... I'm pretty sure theres only 1 outcome (at least in the first kotor, I havent played the 2nd one)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly, you are wrong, because the interrelation of plot and character elements creates a whole lot more than just the two outcomes you mention. That's mis-interpretation.

what is this 'more' you speak of? can I at least be afforded some details?


Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thirdly, this comment of yours:

"and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills,"

Is wrong for two reasons- first of all, guns come in tiers as well. Secondly, games like R-Type have a similar progression to get larger weapons, but they are still not RPs. The acquisition of skills and powers as you go along is NOT evidence of an RP. it is evidence of nothing more than progression, which is not necessarily an RP trait. so if you started out the same person that you ended the game with.. that would be an RPG?.. lol...

guns come in tiers.. but you can always beat the games you mentioned with the tier 1 weapon (be it a pistol, a knife, whatever).. its not possible to do that in any role playing game because the enemies will most likely have a high dodge rating, or damage mitigation to absorb such minuscule pokes

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As for this sentence:

"having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?"
Well, you can say you are wrong, because that would be talking sense. As I mentioned, having a machine gun does not make you an FPS.
What does picking up stuff have to do with RPs? I can pick up stuff in Doom. I can buy stuff in Counterstrike. All of these things are totally away from the point.

yes purchasing equipment is an RPG element.. they borrowed it from an RPG... you buy weapons in real life right?, you also buy weapons in devil may cry, final fantasy, diablo, etc..

it balances the gameplay also.. so its an example where borrowing elements helps more than it hurts

they don't acknowledge the rpg element simply because the main gameplay does not involve rpg elements.. (i.e. you cant dodge bullets, or raise your accuracy through stats).. though there are some counterstrike mods that do this. So yes.. counterstrike has a single RPG element.. even moreso now that in CS : Source, the price of the guns fluctuates, and things like "best bargain in this category" exist.. so you almost have an MMO-like economy going on.. thats yet another RPG element (economy)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Seriously, folks, why don;t any of you consider what the words role-playing game actually MEAN, hmm? You cannot just fit any definition you like. How much more simply can I put it? These... words... have... a... MEANING.

of course I have.. check these out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_playing_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_role-playing_games_by_name

Originally posted by Lana
InnerRise, last I checked you are not a mod. So shut it.

And I would say that discussing what makes something an RP in a thread about RPs...is not at all "far off topic". Shut it? I think not if I feel what I'm saying is correct..mod or not. "Far Off" or not, it's still off topic.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by InnerRise
Shut it? I think not if I feel what I'm saying is correct..mod or not. "Far Off" or not, it's still off topic.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

You didn't even make the thread, you moaning sap.

Sats... arguing when you don't know what you're talking about (your KOTOR argument) or when you're missing the point (...everything else) makes you simply look foolish.

And using Wiki for a source in serious discussion is about as reliable as info from your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.

Originally posted by InnerRise
Shut it? I think not if I feel what I'm saying is correct..mod or not. "Far Off" or not, it's still off topic.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

No, it isn't off-topic. It's discussing RPs in a thread about RPs. How is that off-topic?

It isn't.

The only thing off-topic in this thread so far was you butting in with your unwanted and incorrect opinion on what is off-topic in this thread.

Originally posted by Lana
No, it isn't off-topic. It's discussing RPs in a thread about RPs. How is that off-topic?

It isn't.

The only thing off-topic in this thread so far was you butting in with your unwanted and incorrect opinion on what is off-topic in this thread. It's off topic simply b/c that's not what the thread was made for.

Read the Title very carefully Lana as difficult as it may be: "GREATEST RPG'S OF ALL TIME" not "WHAT MAKES A RPG."

See the difference? You probably don't and there's not much more I can do for you.

And of course my "INCORRECT OPINION" was unwanted, b/c you people are all for this off topic discussion.

I'm done now. I've done nothing but help you take this thread off topic even further.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Sats... arguing when you don't know what you're talking about (your KOTOR argument) or when you're missing the point (...everything else) makes you simply look foolish.

And using Wiki for a source in serious discussion is about as reliable as info from your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.

my point is that story arc alone doesnt make an RPG an RPG... KoToR is good, but it can be broken down just like anything else

ah more details eh? (missing the point). be specific about what you're saying.. its easy to come in and tell someone they're wrong..

wiki is unbiased information, at least (at its very core) its informative.. IMO, you dont get any better than that

I'm saying what I'm saying because I'm looking to get to the core of what makes an RPG... I dont get why you and Ush take this in such a hostile way

this is a discussion.. not a 'whos wrong' or an 'argument'... I'd like to be clear about that

Originally posted by InnerRise
It's off topic simply b/c that's not what the thread was made for.

Read the Title very carefully Lana as difficult as it may be: "GREATEST RPG'S OF ALL TIME" not "WHAT MAKES A RPG."

See the difference? You probably don't and there's not much more I can do for you.

And of course my "INCORRECT OPINION" was unwanted, b/c you people are all for this off topic discussion.

I'm done now. I've done nothing but help you take this thread off topic even further.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
InnerRise, how is it possible to discuss the "greatest RPGs of all time" if we don't have a clear definition of what an RPG is?

The discussion is to do exactly that: Defining what counts as an RPG. It is thus relevant to the thread's purpose, and on-topic.

Now please, quit the unneeded and pointless whining.

I think the whole "Video Game RPG" argument boils down to simply "Game Mechanics".

There are cultural difference with Eastern RPG (FF) and Western RPG (Oblivion) and what makes a great RPG isn't important as how much fun you had playing the game.

Honestly people, we're not authorities here...some people like apple pie..others like cherry pie...and so on.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
its not pure arcade.. there is way too much content to experience what the game has to offer in one sitting.. only arcade games show their stuff in one play span (such as q3, doom)... and praytell, how vastly can you affect the storyline in KoToR?... I'm pretty sure theres only 1 outcome (at least in the first kotor, I havent played the 2nd one)



what is this 'more' you speak of? can I at least be afforded some details?


so if you started out the same person that you ended the game with.. that would be an RPG?.. lol...

guns come in tiers.. but you can always beat the games you mentioned with the tier 1 weapon (be it a pistol, a knife, whatever).. its not possible to do that in any role playing game because the enemies will most likely have a high dodge rating, or damage mitigation to absorb such minuscule pokes



yes purchasing equipment is an RPG element.. they borrowed it from an RPG... you buy weapons in real life right?, you also buy weapons in devil may cry, final fantasy, diablo, etc..

it balances the gameplay also.. so its an example where borrowing elements helps more than it hurts

they don't acknowledge the rpg element simply because the main gameplay does not involve rpg elements.. (i.e. you cant dodge bullets, or raise your accuracy through stats).. though there are some counterstrike mods that do this. So yes.. counterstrike has a single RPG element.. even moreso now that in CS : Source, the price of the guns fluctuates, and things like "best bargain in this category" exist.. so you almost have an MMO-like economy going on.. thats yet another RPG element (economy)



of course I have.. check these out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_playing_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_role-playing_games_by_name

Holy geez, there is a lot of nonsense there.

First of all, there is NOT only one ending to KOTOR. Check your facts next time.

Secondly, the 'more' is that your decisions affect what happen to a. yourself b. your relations with other characters and c. the plot of the game. These mix together to create hundreds of different combinations; an approach Baldur's Gate II used first.

Thirdly, this sentence of yours:


"so if you started out the same person that you ended the game with.. that would be an RPG?.. lol... "


Is just nonsense.

Fourthly, you can easily beat Diablo without the top tier powers. In fact, several of them are much worse than the ones below. The same goes for Elder Scrolls games. This entire point of yours is hogwash. There is no fundamental difference between becoming more powerful by skill or by weapon- they are both simply game-based add-ons.

Fifthly, buying equipment is NOT an RP element, it is an element that happens to be in a lot of RPs. That is entirely different,. Once again, you are confusing correlation with causation, a basic logical error. You can buy equipment in dozens of games- several of which actually pre-date the RP genree on computer- that have nothing to do with being RPs.

Sixthly, balancing gameplay has nothing to do with anything. Seventhly, a free market has nothing to do with being an RP either. How can you possibly make that link? This is such a mental block you have here.

And finally... a. wikipedia is not an offical source of uncounterable knowledge, it is simply wirtten by people often just as clueless as you. Secondly, even if it was, that's an encyclopedia, not a dictionary.

None of these elements you describe have anything do do with what the term role-playing means. The term is all about having an interactive role with a truly interactive environment- an alternate reality which attempts (with varying degrees of succes) to have you being able to play that role is if you were actually there.Games like KOTOR or Elder Scrolls try to do that. Games like Diablo do NOT. They are just about killing things and nothing else. Playing a role has nothing to do with buying things, finding things, or even, necessarily, with becoming more powerful

Like I say, if Diablo had guns rather than swords, people wouldn't call it an RP. The mental deficiency involved here is amazing- the way that swords and fantasy suddenly make it an RP. Very very odd indeed.

If Assassin's Creed was to have a lot of RPG elements, it could well be fantastic. But I'm not actually sure how much of an RPG it's going to be.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
wiki is unbiased information, at least (at its very core) its informative.. IMO, you dont get any better than that

Wiki is written by the people, which means that anyone can write whatever the hell they want. And even if they were attempting to write in earnest, the articles are still subject to human error.



Hostile? I enjoy such discussion. This is fun for me. Am I hostile simply because I oppose your view?



Well, a discussion is essentially a gentlemanly argument... not as loud, and more polite.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I think the whole "Video Game RPG" argument boils down to simply "Game Mechanics".

There are cultural difference with Eastern RPG (FF) and Western RPG (Oblivion) and what makes a great RPG isn't important as how much fun you had playing the game.

Honestly people, we're not authorities here...some people like apple pie..others like cherry pie...and so on.

Yeah, but if someone called a cherry pie an apple pie, they're wrong no matter which way you slice it...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yeah, but if someone called a cherry pie an apple pie, they're wrong no matter which way you slice it...

But the point is...that both taste delicious and is something everyone enjoys. Why bother to argue how it was made? (unless you want the recipe)

I don't like cherry pie, only apple pie.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
But the point is...that both taste delicious and is something everyone enjoys. Why bother to argue how it was made? (unless you want the recipe)

Because it is faintly disutrbing to have people thinking you can make apple pie out of cherries?

BF doesn't like the "Cherry"!




omg

Originally posted by InnerRise
It's off topic simply b/c that's not what the thread was made for.

Read the Title very carefully Lana as difficult as it may be: "GREATEST RPG'S OF ALL TIME" not "WHAT MAKES A RPG."

See the difference? You probably don't and there's not much more I can do for you.

And of course my "INCORRECT OPINION" was unwanted, b/c you people are all for this off topic discussion.

I'm done now. I've done nothing but help you take this thread off topic even further.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

You did not create this thread so you cannot say exactly what it was made for.

Yes, it is titled "Greatest RPGs of all time". It is about RPGs. Therefore, discussion about RPGs in an RPG thread is technically NOT off-topic. How hard is this to get?

And your opinion is unwanted because it is incorrect. It is as simple as that. As I said, last I checked you are NOT a mod. Thus it is in no way your decision as to whether or not something is off-topic.

Now, I will say it one more time - shut it. Because if I DO hear another word from you, it will be a warning. You should know better than to argue and ignore a mod decision by now.

Oh wait, that makes me gay, doesn't it?

.......

Carry on.

Oh, and the best RPG is Diablo II...yeeeeah.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Because it is faintly disutrbing to have people thinking you can make apple pie out of cherries?

Well, I suppose you could probably make an apple pie that had some cherries in it...

Though that wouldn't really be an apple pie anymore. More like some sort of hybrid.

Cherries are better anyway.

Cherrapple pie?

Okay, now I want to figure out what RPG would be a cherrapple pie...

Edit: Figured it out. I think the Kingdom Hearts games are cherrapple flavored.

And you have Fallout as another classical role-playing game example. You can choose whether you play a murderous bandit or charismatic scientist trying to solve problems by force. In Fallout 2 you can even become a porn star if you want, or get married. It is so much more than simply killing stuff....

Oh, and has anyone played old games Dragonlore 2 and Lands of Lore 2? I am not sure how they would fit.

The Shadow Hearts series is pretty much the best thing out there, consol-RPG-wise (I don't play PC games, so I can't speak for them). They could stand to be a little more open--there's not much exploration to be done, since you can't wander about the world map--and they tend towards the easy side of things, but they're still completely brilliant.

Can I say Final Fantasy tactics without a hoard of screaming people descend on me to make pie analogies and scream about how that's a tactics game, not an RPG? To hell with it; I'm listing it anyway.

The Final Fantasy series is badly overrated. And I mean all of it, not just the recent games. But FF6 was cool at the time. Probably wouldn't replay it, though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Holy geez, there is a lot of nonsense there.

Yeah.. cuz this statement has much to do with the discussion...
can we lay off the insults now?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all, there is NOT only one ending to KOTOR. Check your facts next time.

because saying "pretty sure" = "fact"...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly, the 'more' is that your decisions affect what happen to a. yourself b. your relations with other characters and c. the plot of the game. These mix together to create hundreds of different combinations; an approach Baldur's Gate II used first.

.. I would like to see more of this type of responding.. because its informative rather than condescending (which really does something for the discussion). I have only tried a demo of a baldurs gate on Ps2, I havent played the baldurs that people deem excellent

as for the 'more' .. this isnt a 'defining' rpg element.. but it is most definitely one of them

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thirdly, this sentence of yours:


"so if you started out the same person that you ended the game with.. that would be an RPG?.. lol... "


Is just nonsense.

you would know... it was a response to you mocking character progression and dismissing it entirely


Originally posted by Ushgarak
Fourthly, you can easily beat Diablo without the top tier powers. In fact, several of them are much worse than the ones below. The same goes for Elder Scrolls games. This entire point of yours is hogwash. There is no fundamental difference between becoming more powerful by skill or by weapon- they are both simply game-based add-ons.

And how does this help what you're saying? you admitted to a degree that progression is necessary to defeat diablo (even getting middle tier skills involves progression)

As I've said.. progression is an RPG element


Originally posted by Ushgarak
Fifthly, buying equipment is NOT an RP element, it is an element that happens to be in a lot of RPs. That is entirely different,. Once again, you are confusing correelation with causation, a basic logical error. You can buy equipment in dozens of games- several fo which actually pre-date the RP genree on computer- that have nothing to do with being RPs.

just because the main game isnt an RP, doesnt take away from equipment buying being a role playing element.. many games take elements from one another

basically, I buy this 'sword of whatever'.. that increases my damage from 1 point to 5 points of damage... rpg element

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sixthly, balancing gameplay has nothing to do with anything. Seventhly, a free market has nothing to do with being an RP either. How can you possibly make that link? This is such a mental block you have here. why isnt it?.. if you're role-playing.. what better way than to bring an aspect thats familiar to home?

making the weapons cost money means you wont be buying rifles on the first round... gameplay balance via an RP element. how can you go wrong?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And finally... a. wikipedia is not an offical source of uncounterable knowledge, it is simply wirtten by people often just as clueless as you. Secondly, even if it was, that's an encyclopedia, not a dictionary.

/sigh again with the insults.. this is terribly boring to me.. if you have nothing better to offer than call me clueless.. why are you even responding to me? Again, I'm not arguing.. if you want to argue thats all you.. I'm here for information and nothing more


Originally posted by Ushgarak
None of these elements you describe have anything do do with what the term role-playing means. The term is all about having an interactive role with a truly interactive environment- an alternate reality which attempts (with varying degrees of succes) to have you being able to play that role is if you were actually there.Games like KOTOR or Elder Scrolls try to do that. Games like Diablo do NOT. They are just about killing things and nothing else. Playing a role has nothing to do with buying things, finding things, or even, necessarily, with becoming more powerful

Like I say, if Diablo had guns rather than swords, people wouldn't call it an RP. The mental deficiency involved here is amazing- the way that swords and fantasy suddenly make it an RP. Very very odd indeed.

No one ever said that involving guns wouldnt make diablo an RP.. where have I said that? but thats why its called an Action/RPG
and not pure RPG... because its a Hybrid Genre

(Yuna has guns in FFX-2, and its called an RP.. so yell at squeenix I guess)

if pistol does 1 to 5 damage, and shotgun does 10 to 40.. thats an RP element

I didnt label diablo an Action / RPG.. blizzard did.. (or whoever does that)

I 100% agree with the immersion factor being an important element... but I firmly believe that ALL games are supposed to attempt accomplishing this task, not just confining it to the RPG genre...if they didn't.. why bother playing games at all? As they are all supposed to be some form of escape for gamers

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I think the whole "Video Game RPG" argument boils down to simply "Game Mechanics".

There are cultural difference with Eastern RPG (FF) and Western RPG (Oblivion) and what makes a great RPG isn't important as how much fun you had playing the game.

Honestly people, we're not authorities here...some people like apple pie..others like cherry pie...and so on.

Aye, well spoken

Originally posted by InnerRise
I'm done now. Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

How ironic that you post again to remind everyone you said you were done posting...

I'm definitely agreeing with WrathfulDwarf on this miniscule issue.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by InnerRise
I'm definitely agreeing with WrathfulDwarf on this miniscule issue.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Thought you were done?

What does 'anata wa wakarimasu ka.....' mean?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Thought you were done?

What does 'anata wa wakarimasu ka.....' mean?

it means "do you understand?"

as for my fave RPG (and RP/Hybrid of course)

-Diablo Series - 1 , 2 and 2's expansion
-Elderscroll's Series - daggerfall, oblivion(I still feel that daggerfall is still the more superior elderscrolls game, due to its gameplay mechanics)
-Final Fantasy Series - 6, 7, 10 (and so far 12 is very nice too)
-Chrono Trigger.. I didnt care for chrono cross

the warhammer people should make more PC games on an RPG level (rather than all the RTS / MMO they've been crankin out as of late)

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Thought you were done?

What does 'anata wa wakarimasu ka.....' mean?

It's supposed to be Japanese for "Is it comprehensible.....", but the grammar's off.

And I think I'll add the Golden Sun games. Those were superb.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
it means "do you understand?"

as for my fave RPG (and RP/Hybrid of course)

-Diablo Series - 1 , 2 and 2's expansion
-Elderscroll's Series - daggerfall, oblivion(I still feel that daggerfall is still the more superior elderscrolls game, due to its gameplay mechanics)
-Final Fantasy Series - 6, 7, 10 (and so far 12 is very nice too)
-Chrono Trigger.. I didnt care for chrono cross

the warhammer people should make more PC games on an RPG level (rather than all the RTS / MMO they've been crankin out as of late)

yh warhammer rp would be cool

what about DIGAEA i really like that too. n rogue galaxy.

and HOW CUD ANY1 NOT CARE FOR CRONO CROSS, PERHAPS THE HOLY GRAIL OF RPG'S {along with final fantasy 9} i do know that these games get a lot of heats for either straying from the crono trigger look, or not living upto ff7, but CMON, in my humble oppinion crono cross is better than crono trigger n ff9 is DEFINATLEY better than ff7 heck its even slightly better than 6{although the gap is very close}. cmon just cause old school people didnt wanna accept sum new school stuff doesnt mean theyr not any more classic then their 2d predecessors. or original.

btw only shadow hearts 1 and 2 were good. 3 sucked {sorta decent game but not really GREAT in any way shape or form}

You can edit your posts instead of double posting, you know.

yea n no more arguin on minor deviation in rpg, im talkin about all types of em., strategy, classical, role play, active time, passive time, action, free movement, turn based, dungeons/rpg elements. as long as it passes for an rpg{e.g final fantasy, wild arms, ultima, kingdom hearts, diablo, shin megaten, metal gear acid, dot hack suppose this covers the basic possible sub genres}

oh yea forgot disgaea, n strategy rpgs.

Hi, can you read?

Originally posted by Lana
You can edit your posts instead of double posting, you know.

Stop the multiple posts in a row when you can edit your posts still.

sry.

I'd like to know who pissed Lana off.

On-topic:

Does Hotel Dusk/Mystery games fall in the RPG category?


I don't own it, I've been contemplating on buying it.

Originally posted by JToTheP
I'd like to know who pissed Lana off.

On-topic:

Does Hotel Dusk/Mystery games fall in the RPG category?


I don't own it, I've been contemplating on buying it.

Aunt Flow?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and HOW CUD ANY1 NOT CARE FOR CRONO CROSS, PERHAPS THE HOLY GRAIL OF RPG'S {along with final fantasy 9} i do know that these games get a lot of heats for either straying from the crono trigger look, or not living upto ff7, but CMON, in my humble oppinion crono cross is better than crono trigger n ff9 is DEFINATLEY better than ff7 heck its even slightly better than 6{although the gap is very close}. cmon just cause old school people didnt wanna accept sum new school stuff doesnt mean theyr not any more classic then their 2d predecessors. or original.

btw only shadow hearts 1 and 2 were good. 3 sucked {sorta decent game but not really GREAT in any way shape or form}

I didn't like Chrono Cross, you didn't particularly like SH3. People all have their own opinions, I suppose; I thought it was completely charming ("Even so, people would normally help out in a plain wreck. But no! You had to look like an alien!" I agree with you about FF9 though; none of my friends liked it, but I thought Zidane was a refreshing change from the angsty loner type that starred in the last few FF games before 9. Sort of a Locke throwback.

I had a number of complaints about Chrono Cross. I never thought when I was playing it that it didn't live up to Trigger, because I hadn't even played Trigger at that point, but it simply never struck me as an exceptional game. Mainly it's the characters. One of the best things about a traditional RPG is watching different characters change and interact with each other. Chrono Cross has forty-five characters, and the only thing differentiating most of them were their accents. I'll forgive a lot of things in RPGs, but never bland, uninteresting casts. I didn't hate it, mind you, but nothing really stood out, and I ended up getting so far--in a sand cave with a boss that changed its collar periodically, I think--got bored, and never bothered to finish it.

Originally posted by BackFire
Aunt Flow?



Only you could pull that off and not get warned BF.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and HOW CUD ANY1 NOT CARE FOR CRONO CROSS, PERHAPS THE HOLY GRAIL OF RPG'S {along with final fantasy 9} i do know that these games get a lot of heats for either straying from the crono trigger look, or not living upto ff7, but CMON, in my humble oppinion crono cross is better than crono trigger n ff9 is DEFINATLEY better than ff7 heck its even slightly better than 6{although the gap is very close}. cmon just cause old school people didnt wanna accept sum new school stuff doesnt mean theyr not any more classic then their 2d predecessors. or original.

I dont think it was about giving them heat for trying something new... it was naming it after a great game.. high expectation comes with that

if I said "this is elderscrolls V...", in their minds, gamers already have an expecation for it.. even without seeing any screenshots or gameplay.. and the good part about that is bethesda usually delivers

not saying cross was bad, but it doesnt touch trigger's quality.. and its certainly not even in the same universe as FF6, in my opinon of course

Hah ****ing hah, BF

And no. Just at the end of my rope with certain posters.

doped






Baten Kaitos

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

It's alright Lana, you know very well you'd miss me if I got warned. Regardless if you'd never admit it, BF knows.

Mario RPG of course.

I hope to get Final Fantasy 5 & 6 for my birthday the 24th, so I can say those two are my favorites.

Originally posted by Lana
Hah ****ing hah, BF

And no. Just at the end of my rope with certain posters.

I love when you use naughty language with me.....mmmmmm.

You too, JtotheP.

Originally posted by BackFire
I love when you use naughty language with me.....mmmmmm.

You too, JtotheP.

Well maybe I should **** everything for dramatic effect?

If you like when she does, you'd love when she gets pissed at purely ME!

Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy III
The Legend of Dragoon
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Kingdon Hearts

Elder Scrolls
Forgotten realm Series. i.e. BG, Shadows of Amn, and Neverwinter.
WoW if you could actually some how effect the story line would be up there

Breath of Fire 3
Parasite Eve
Kingdom Hearts series
Final fantasy 7 and dirdge of cerburus
Final fantasy 10

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Xenogears. nuff said.

Give some love for DRAGON QUEST VIII

Grandia 2 and Skies of Arcadia. By far.

MASS EFFECT
KOTOR
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy X
Lost Odyssey
and several others. all excelent games.

FF6, FF7, Chrono Trigger, and Chrono Cross are my favs

1.Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn + TOB
2.Mass Effect
3.Neverwinter Nights + Expansion (HOTU is the best)
4.Baldur's Gate
5.KOTOR/KOTOR 2
Six.Final Fantasy X
Seven.Final Fantasy IV

1)Mass effect
2)Fallout 3
3)KOTOR/KOTOR2/FFX
4)FFVII/FFXII

As for MMORPG'S
1) FFXI

In no order.

Elder Scrolls Series
Fallout 3(only one I have played. )
Mass Effect
Final Fantasy Tactics
Kotor 1 and 2
Fable: Lost Chapters, ultimately it is superior to 2.
Final Fantasy X

Oh yes i forgot to add TES IV oblivion to my list, its under fallout 3.

1.KotOR
2. The Elder Scrolls Oblivion
2. Mass Effect
3. The Elder Scrolls Morrowind
4. Fable 1(not lost chapters)
5. Jade Empire
6. KotOR 2
7. Phantasy Star Online

More to come later.

Knights of the Old Republic (1 and 2) and Fable are the only RPGs I've played...

Why is er one sayin' FFX?! I liked to play that game, but I hate it! I think I liked the way it looked, felt and played but the story and characters sucked to me.

Originally posted by I am who I am
Why is er one sayin' FFX?! I liked to play that game, but I hate it! I think I liked the way it looked, felt and played but the story and characters sucked to me. Opinions.

And yours happens to suck.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Opinions. Yeah, I know.

I have no rank, I'm just putting up great ones in no particular order.
1.Rise of the Argonauts
2.KOTOR
3.KOTOR II
4.Jade Empire
5.Mass Effect
6.Mass Effect 2
7.Kingdom Hearts
8.Kingdom Hearts : Chain of Memories
9.Kingdom Hearts 2
10:Legend of Dragoon
11.The entire Suikoden series
12.Jedi Knight Academy
13.Fallout 3
14.Fable
15.Fable 2
16.Final Fantasy VII
17.Chrono Cross
18.Entire Breath of Fire series
19.Blue Dragon
20.Entire Dragon Quest series

I've got more, but 20 is good for now.

Originally posted by KingD19
I have no rank, I'm just putting up great ones in no particular order.
1.Rise of the Argonauts
2.KOTOR
3.KOTOR II
4.Jade Empire
5.Mass Effect
6.Mass Effect 2
7.Kingdom Hearts
8.Kingdom Hearts : Chain of Memories
9.Kingdom Hearts 2
10:Legend of Dragoon
11.The entire Suikoden series
12.Jedi Knight Academy
13.Fallout 3
14.Fable
15.Fable 2
16.Final Fantasy VII
17.Chrono Cross
18.Entire Breath of Fire series
19.Blue Dragon
20.Entire Dragon Quest series

I've got more, but 20 is good for now.

Hold on now...

Is there a problem?

In no order:

Chrono Cross -- has the best music of all RPGs. I mean literally
FFVI -- best storyline amongst the FF series
Tales of Destiny II -- my personal fav in the "Tales of" franchise


If these are qualified as RPGs:

Okami -- one of the most memorable storylines in gaming history.
ICO & Shadow of the Colossus -- have the MOST memorable storylines in gaming history BAR NONE. The storyline was stuck in my head for a whole week lol.
No amount of words could describe the pure awesomeness of playing through the game.

Yeah, are you sure you played a game known as mass effect 2 which has yet to be released?

I forgot about Okami, SotC, and all of the Tales series. And if Mass Effect was awesome, it's a fact that two will be umm....awesomer.

Originally posted by KingD19
Is there a problem?

As far as I know, Mass Effect 2 ISN'T OUT.

True, but it's made by Bioware, so it's a given it was be one of the best RPG's of all time, just like Dragon Age:Origins. Am I lying?

Mass Effect 2 may not be out today but it's still best RPG because when has Bioware ever lied?

Although if Bioware did lie, they're certainly not gonna call the sequel,

"Mass Effect 2: Worse Than Original"

or

"Mass Effect 2: Equally As Good, But Certainly Not Better"

or

"Mass Effect 2: We're Not Adding Anything"

or

"Mass Effect 2: We Know You'll Buy It Even If Its a Fifteen Minute Tech Demo of Cloud from FFVII Making Out With a Chocobo, You Suckers"

Lol, true, but I would still buy it. And you know you would too. ^_^

All the above answers sotally tuck, you are all either A) born in the mid 90's and by default will never actually appreciate some of the best rpg's ever made, or B) closed minded Square-Enix whores.

If you've never played DC Skies of Arcadia, you are NOT an RPG fan, this is not an opinion, it is a fact, you are not an rpg FAN , you just kinda like the occasional rpg!

Gamers over 25 - if you're out there, i know you will have my back for this top 5 list. Gamers under 25...Square-Enix loves you, you give the best handjobs evaarrr!!!!!

Top 5 in no particular order.

Skies of Arcadia (Dreamcast)
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Deus Ex (PC)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Shining Force III (Saturn)

Honourable mentions go to;

Phantasy Star online
Bioware RPG's - namely Mass Effect & Kotor series.
Grandia 1 & 2
Pokemon Red/Blue for the Gameboy kicked so much ass it's unreal, Sys Link tournaments were the shit!

Factually the top 5 best RPGs, in order:

1. Star Ocean 3
2. Tales of Phantasia
3. Final Fantasy VII
4. Xenogears
5. Golden Sun

Undisputable fact; if you disagree, YOU ARE NOT A FAN!

Not a fan of Westerns huh?

Originally posted by Balmung
5. Golden Sun

Ah of course, forgot the Golden Sun series.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Although if Bioware did lie, they're certainly not gonna call the sequel,

"Mass Effect 2: Worse Than Original"

or

"Mass Effect 2: Equally As Good, But Certainly Not Better"

or

"Mass Effect 2: We're Not Adding Anything"

or

"Mass Effect 2: We Know You'll Buy It Even If Its a Fifteen Minute Tech Demo of Cloud from FFVII Making Out With a Chocobo, You Suckers"

Its very hard to find a sequel in games that is better than the original

I forgot about a few games.

Steambot Chronicles(This is a sleeper, but I guarantee you if you try it, you'll like it)
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Panzer Dragoon Series is awesome as well
Golden Sun rocks too

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not a fan of Westerns huh?

It's not so much that I'm *not* a fan of the Western RPGs, as it is that I'm a fan of the RPG Genre, and these Western Developers are butchering the entire concept with their every attempt at making one. RPGs are all about making the storyline, characters and setting as captivating as possible, and these Western RPG developers fail miserably at it.

Well techincaly an RPG is about making your own story etc, which none of the JRPGs do.

Video Game RPGs already come with their own established storyline; this is the case with both Western and Japanese VGRPGs, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at. In some cases there might be slight variations depending on player choice, but even those variations were put into the game by the developers themselves (and the player only gets to choose which path he goes on; he doesn't ultimately get to create his own path), and it's up to the developers to make the entire storyline experience (variable and invariable) as captivating as possible. Western RPGs in every single case lack the character and storyline pacing, the overall charm and quirks, the superior music, and the superior artistic style that the Japanese RPGs all possess. Fact.

Originally posted by Balmung
Factually the top 5 best RPGs, in order:

1. Star Ocean 3
2. Tales of Phantasia
3. Final Fantasy VII
4. Xenogears
5. Golden Sun

Undisputable fact; if you disagree, YOU ARE NOT A FAN! Or you're just not a weaboo.

Originally posted by KingD19
I forgot about a few games.

Steambot Chronicles(This is a sleeper, but I guarantee you if you try it, you'll like it)
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Panzer Dragoon Series is awesome as well
Golden Sun rocks too

Agreed on Shenmue and Golden SUn

Originally posted by Balmung
Video Game RPGs already come with their own established storyline; this is the case with both Western and Japanese VGRPGs, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at. In some cases there might be slight variations depending on player choice, but even those variations were put into the game by the developers themselves (and the player only gets to choose which path he goes on; he doesn't ultimately get to create his own path), and it's up to the developers to make the entire storyline experience (variable and invariable) as captivating as possible. Western RPGs in every single case lack the character and storyline pacing, the overall charm and quirks, the superior music, and the superior artistic style that the Japanese RPGs all possess. Fact.


Most (if not all) Western RPGs suck balls imho. They just don't know how to make one, plain and simple.
They don't know how to make a good storyline, and the music is way below par compared to Japanese RPGs.
Anyway they're good in FPS, so they should just stick to that genre.

No version of Final Fantasy has ever been superior in gameplay or even story than Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic 1.

Fact.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
No version of Final Fantasy has ever been superior in gameplay or even story than Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic 1.

Fact.
FFVI >> All western RPGs

Fact.

Originally posted by Balmung
It's not so much that I'm *not* a fan of the Western RPGs, as it is that I'm a fan of the RPG Genre, and these Western Developers are butchering the entire concept with their every attempt at making one. RPGs are all about making the storyline, characters and setting as captivating as possible, and these Western RPG developers fail miserably at it. Personally, i disagree honestly as i love some western RPG's(fallout 3, mass effect etc etc) but thats your personal opinion and i respect that.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
FFVI >> All western RPGs

Fact. Keep it to your opinion because i personally feel Mass effect > The majority of FF's i played(4 7 8 10 10-2 11 12).

Bioware RPG's are above most JRPG's, if not all. They are the finest out there. BG, NWN, ME, KOTOR= Epic Win

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
No version of Final Fantasy has ever been superior in gameplay or even story than Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic 1.

Fact.

WTF? Knights of the Old Republic had a terrible storyline. As a huge RPG fan, and a former hardcore SW fan (I've seen the error of my ways), I'm probably in a better position to judge the game than anyone here. There was absolutely nothing especially new or creative to the storyline, nothing engaging about the characters, the overall atmosphere was quite frankly gloomy, and the manner in which the storyline was told (the dialogue, the pace at which the characters and storyline progressed etc...) was seriously lacking.

EDIT!

EDIT!

EDIT!

I seriously misread some sh1t.

MOTHER 3, a great RPG!

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
MOTHER 3, a great RPG!

Lucas is the man.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer


Most (if not all) Western RPGs suck balls imho. They just don't know how to make one, plain and simple.
They don't know how to make a good storyline, and the music is way below par compared to Japanese RPGs.
Anyway they're good in FPS, so they should just stick to that genre. Mass Effect's storyline completely destroys the plot of any Final Fantasy game. Or any JRPG really.

Just admit that you're a weaboo dude.

As for music...Fallout 3's soundtrack was completely 1337, and JRPG music sucks, One Winged Angel is the only note-worthy song and even that is overrated.

Originally posted by KingD19
I forgot about a few games.

Steambot Chronicles(This is a sleeper, but I guarantee you if you try it, you'll like it)
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Panzer Dragoon Series is awesome as well
Golden Sun rocks too Forgot all about Shenmue. Man, those games were good. Wasn't there supposed to be a Shenmue III?

If not there should have been, because II left me with some serious questions.