Karate Kid (Pre - Crisis) vs. Champion

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Endless Mike
No power gem

Who wins?

Skeets
Champion wins via his massive strength durability advantage.

Martian_mind
Yes...because Strength and durability advantages worked so well against Karate Kid.....

Skeets
They would matter when fighting someone who's arguably just as good as KK.

Hercules
I think it would help when you consider Champion is also an Elder of the Universe who has spent eons studying virtually every martial art in the Galaxy.

But thats just me...

Martian_mind
Despite no actual showing that indicates it.


Specially since he was basically one-shotted by drax and lost to She-hulk,evidently he is nowhere near KK...

Juntai
Champions bio doesn't compare to KK's actual showings.

Hercules
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Despite no actual showing that indicates it.


Specially since he was basically one-shotted by drax and lost to She-hulk,evidently he is nowhere near KK...

She hulk was PIS!

But yeah, Champion is another character who is built up to be uber but then gets stomped rather too easily.

Way to go MARVEL!

Skeets
Originally posted by Hercules
She hulk was PIS!

But yeah, Champion is another character who is built up to be uber but then gets stomped rather too easily.

Way to go MARVEL!
Only because he's seen as a joke....herbcry

golem370
Champion is Physically the most perfect of Marvel's characters

Joey Stacks
Champion in a curbstomp

Endless Mike
So do you think Champion could take on PC Superboy?

Superboy Prime
Originally posted by Juntai
Champions bio doesn't compare to KK's actual showings.

co-sign.

This guy took on PC Superboy....Champion can't even handle She-Hulk.
Besides KK's a walking plot device.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So do you think Champion could take on PC Superboy?

And whip his ass, unlike KK who merely redirected his attacks.

PS: Champion jobs to She Hulk
Karate Kid (pre-crisis since he's soo much more uber) gets pawned by Major Disaster.

I CAN DO IT TOO

Juntai
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
And whip his ass, unlike KK who merely redirected his attacks. I disagree. Champion without his powergem would be nothing to PC Superboy.

Joey Stacks
How so? Karate Kid was able to pawn him using his Karate Skills, why couldn't someone of caparable skill who's roughly 1,000,000x's stronger do it?

Juntai
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
How so? Karate Kid was able to pawn him using his Karate Skills, why couldn't someone of caparable skill who's roughly 1,000,000x's stronger do it? Karate Kid's skills are better than Champions, that's why.

Champion's skills couldn't overcome She Hulk when he didn't have the power gem. Similar stipulations to the thread.


Strength isn't going to make the difference of putting Champion over Superboy because PC Superboy is still stronger than him by a definitive longshot without the powergem. They aren't even in a similar league in fact.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by Juntai
Karate Kid's skills are better than Champions, that's why.

Champion's skills couldn't overcome She Hulk when he didn't have the power gem. Similar stipulations to the thread.


Strength isn't going to make the difference of putting Champion over Superboy because PC Superboy is still stronger than him by a definitive longshot without the powergem. They aren't even in a similar league in fact.

That's a low showing. Why not post the part where he ripped through every other one of Earth's champions?

If we go by low showings then

KK has been shown to struggle against multiple MA's in his book (precrisis with none having nearly as impressive feats and showings as him) and in fact barely scraped by in a particular showing thanks to being "good minded."

Superboy Prime
Besides Champion, unlike KK, fights like a brute. He just attempts to overpower his opponents through sheer strength, and not skill. That's the main difference between them. KK lacks the strength to tango with PC Supes Jr., but his skills allow him the oportunity to look for weak points in Superboy's bioaura.

When has Champion done something like this to backup his so called uber skills?

Juntai
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
That's a low showing. Why not post the part where he ripped through every other one of Earth's champions?
Without the power gem?

Priest
Originally posted by Juntai
Without the power gem?
Champion never done shit with the power gem, he too dumb.

Juntai
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
If we go by low showings then

KK has been shown to struggle against multiple MA's in his book (precrisis with none having nearly as impressive feats and showings as him) and in fact barely scraped by in a particular showing thanks to being "good minded." Your low showing involves KK winning, while Champion still lost to She Hulk without his precious gem in a pure hand to hand fight.

Juntai
Originally posted by Priest
Champion never done shit with the power gem, he too dumb. He used it. The She Hulk battle was proof of it. With the gem he walked over her, she came back in the next issue or two, and annihilated him when he was forced to not use it.

Priest
Originally posted by Juntai
He used it. The She Hulk battle was proof of it. With the gem he walked over her, she came back in the next issue or two, and annihilated him when he was forced to not use it.
Oh, the boxing match right?
I was thinking way back when he had the gem fighting thanos.
Champion still suck anywayz, he gets no props for beating up she hulk w/ gem.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by Juntai
Without the power gem?

Champion was never an adept user of the gem, it was like a toy to him. I don't think it amped his strength that much really.

Juntai
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Champion was never an adept user of the gem, it was like a toy to him. I don't think it amped his strength that much really. The she hulk fights say different in that they show him with it, and without it.

Joey Stacks
Hence that much. It's like how Karate Kid is portrayed being able to tango with Superboy one instance, then failing miserable and bruising his hand punching Mon-El and getting the beat down by Commander Blud and put to sleep by Cosmic Boy in the next.

MRasheed
This thread is the perfect example of stupid writers not knowing what to do with a character. Few comic stories have EVER made me as angry/disappointed as Jim Starlin's Thanos vs Champion fight. Champion has to be the most unfairly abused character in comic book history. At 10' & 5000lbs w/Class 100 strength and mastery of every close combat discipline in the galaxy, he should be completely unbeatable. Period.

This thread should be a friggin' joke. Here's how this fight should actually look:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d18/muhrasheed/karatekid_vs_champion.jpg

llagrok
I think Champion was a joke. I mean, look at him.

However, he's studied martial arts for eons and does nothing but fight all the time. Even without the power gem he's still an incredibly formidable opponent.

MRasheed
Originally posted by llagrok
I think Champion was a joke. I mean, look at him.

Are you kidding? He has a GREAT design. Classic old school.

The Fake Macoy
Champion has never displayed his amazing fighting ability. Thanos toyed with him in H2H using skill. I'm not trying to say that Thanos would have won in H2H, but if Champion was as good as KK, he would not have been humiliated. KK wins this.

batdude123
Champion is a vagina. Period.

MRasheed
The Champion is no such a thing. What we have are perfect examples of:



...completely at odds with how he was originally established when he made his first appearance.

long pig
Originally posted by Juntai
Your low showing involves KK winning, while Champion still lost to She Hulk without his precious gem in a pure hand to hand fight.
The thing is, the Gem made him stronger, but also made his body addicted to it's power and without it, his body nearly died and he was so weak She Hulk beat him. That's still pretty stupid, but that's how it was supposed to be credible.

If you read the old comic, he never had the gem when he fought earth's heroes.

Jebus reborn
Hmm... Champion's best showing of duribility, that basically 10 fold destroys all his other showings, was him getting his salad tossed against Thanos.
That was the best he was written, ever!

Hmm...

MRasheed
Originally posted by Jebus reborn
...that basically 10 fold destroys all his other showings...

???

So a PIS story that bs'd EVERYTHING anyone ever knew about the character became his new standard?

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by MRasheed
???

So a PIS story that bs'd EVERYTHING anyone ever knew about the character became his new standard? Umm... no.

I mean that as in, his best showing, was 10 times better than any other showing, and he still got his ass handed to him. Even his best showing betrays his skill.

Either Champion is overated, or Thanos is under...

Superboy Prime
The guy with the stupid Dragonball design is overrated, not stonehead.

MRasheed
Originally posted by Jebus reborn
I mean that as in, his best showing, was 10 times better than any other showing, and he still got his ass handed to him. Even his best showing betrays his skill.

Your idea of "best showing" differs wildly from my own, Jebus.

His best showing was when he arrived on earth and challenged earth's heroes to a boxing match. He was skilled in our own MA and crushed opponant after opponant, calmly, intelligently, efficiently.

In the fight with Thanos, Starlin had him acting like a mindless brute who used his sized to overwhelm opponants, fought emotionally and abandoned any idea of skill-in-technique.

So when you say "best showing" you are obviously talking about Thanos (Jim Starlin's own creation! messed) not the Champion.

batdude123
Originally posted by MRasheed
The Champion is no such a thing. What we have are perfect examples of:



...completely at odds with how he was originally established when he made his first appearance.

Too bad his vagina showings outweigh his uber showings.

The guy is a stone cold, crab-infected, gaping vagina.

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by MRasheed
Your idea of "best showing" differs wildly from my own, Jebus.

His best showing was when he arrived on earth and challenged earth's heroes to a boxing match. He was skilled in our own MA and crushed opponant after opponant, calmly, intelligently, efficiently.

In the fight with Thanos, Starlin had him acting like a mindless brute who used his sized to overwhelm opponants, fought emotionally and abandoned any idea of skill-in-technique.

So when you say "best showing" you are obviously talking about Thanos (Jim Starlin's own creation! messed) not the Champion. Except.
When he fought Thing, he got his ribs smashed, he couldn't put him down for quite a while, and he got hit a lot from Thing.
Certainly not the best feats.

When he fought Thanos, he showed more duribility than he ever has, shown better powers, shown more strength.
Plus, at the start of the battle, he was calm, and he said he was going to take it slow and easy.
He wasn't portrayed wrong at all.

However, after repeated efforts, in which he couldn't hit him, he started to get really pissed, and tried to pull out all the stops.

Also, that's one of Thanos's lowest showings possible... no expression strength, and power wise at least...

MRasheed
Originally posted by Jebus reborn

When he fought Thing, he got his ribs smashed, he couldn't put him down for quite a while, and he got hit a lot from Thing.
Certainly not the best feats.

Modeled after the first Rocky movie, that battle was specifically written to showcase the Thing's "heart" and to show him as a true hero. His own fighting skills (he learned how to box in the military) served him well over the years as the acting muscle of the Fantastic Four. The Champion deliberately limited himself to the rules of boxing in which, even a highly-skilled defensive fighter (like Muhammad Ali or Winky Wright) can't keep another skilled fighter from tagging the body and slamming into the ribs. The fight was a good showing by both men; especially if you subscribe to the Rocky mythos.



The feats of strength performed by Champion that Starlin showed were specifically linked to the wearing of the Power Gem, if you will notice in the narrative. The ONLY powers Champion showed were those of raw physical prowess, and since we already knew that Champion was 10 feet tall, 5000lbs of muscle with Class 100 stregth even before the Thanos Quest, it was really ridiculous for Starlin to claim that Champion's throwing a tank or weakening a force field was unusual for him. Jim Starlin was obviously weakening the other characters in an effort to show how much his own character was a bad @ss. This is a trait of poor writing skill. From the very beginning when Thanos showed up, Champion literally did nothing but swing wildly (not even showing basic boxing knowledge!) rush head long after his opponant like a skillless brawler-type (which he continued to do even after he said he was going to take it "slow and easy"roll eyes (sarcastic) ), telegraph blows like an amateur, and all in all, act for all the world as if the one writing him literally didn't know a thing about ANY KIND of fighting art.

The battle was far from the good showing of Champion you claim, but instead was both an embarrassment to the character and the skills of the writer as well.

Juntai
Originally posted by MRasheed
Modeled after the first Rocky movie, that battle was specifically written to showcase the Thing's "heart" and to show him as a true hero. His own fighting skills (he learned how to box in the military) served him well over the years as the acting muscle of the Fantastic Four. The Champion deliberately limited himself to the rules of boxing in which, even a highly-skilled defensive fighter (like Muhammad Ali or Winky Wright) can't keep another skilled fighter from tagging the body and slamming into the ribs. The fight was a good showing by both men; especially if you subscribe to the Rocky mythos.



The feats of strength performed by Champion that Starlin showed were specifically linked to the wearing of the Power Gem, if you will notice in the narrative. The ONLY powers Champion showed were those of raw physical prowess, and since we already knew that Champion was 10 feet tall, 5000lbs of muscle with Class 100 stregth even before the Thanos Quest, it was really ridiculous for Starlin to claim that Champion's throwing a tank or weakening a force field was unusual for him. Jim Starlin was obviously weakening the other characters in an effort to show how much his own character was a bad @ss. This is a trait of poor writing skill. From the very beginning when Thanos showed up, Champion literally did nothing but swing wildly (not even showing basic boxing knowledge!) rush head long after his opponant like a skillless brawler-type (which he continued to do even after he said he was going to take it "slow and easy"roll eyes (sarcastic) ), telegraph blows like an amateur, and all in all, act for all the world as if the one writing him literally didn't know a thing about ANY KIND of fighting art.

The battle was far from the good showing of Champion you claim, but instead was both an embarrassment to the character and the skills of the writer as well. Do you think some writer intention may have been lost in artistic translation, to result in what you described?

grey fox
Originally posted by Juntai
Do you think some writer intention may have been lost in artistic translation, to result in what you described?

I have to agree here , it's rather difficult to 'not' telegraph moves in a comic. Considering were the only ones reading it.

MRasheed
Well, in this case Starlin actually had Thanos say that Champion telegraphs his moves. While he was saying it he had Champion running around like a bull in a china shop (decidedly UN-martial artist like).

The writer's intention was to have Thanos be perceived as the better fighter. He executed this by taking away Champion's aeons of developed skill. In other words he shortchanged the character and cheated his fans. Of course if you don't like Champion and aren't interested in story integrity and continuity consistency then you won't care. But I came away from the Thanos Quest (that I'd been looking forward to for months) with a great loss of respect for the legendary Jim Starlin's writing ability.

MRasheed
It's not difficult to show a fighting comic character actually knowing what he's doing. Frank Miller has brillant martial art fight scenes and makes a point to not take anything from either character. Didn't he manage to impress in our minds how awesome his own character Elektra was, and yet still have her lose against Bullseye? In Miller's story, Elektra still came across as a bad @ss but he wrote Bullseye as simply better.

Jim Starlin obviously lacks that ability. What he managed to do is make the fans lose all respect for Champion and I lost all respect for his storytelling. A real writer, like Frank Miller, would've had Thanos engage Champion in battle WITHOUT compromising Champion's expertise in H2H and established skill level.

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by MRasheed
Modeled after the first Rocky movie, that battle was specifically written to showcase the Thing's "heart" and to show him as a true hero. His own fighting skills (he learned how to box in the military) served him well over the years as the acting muscle of the Fantastic Four. The Champion deliberately limited himself to the rules of boxing in which, even a highly-skilled defensive fighter (like Muhammad Ali or Winky Wright) can't keep another skilled fighter from tagging the body and slamming into the ribs. The fight was a good showing by both men; especially if you subscribe to the Rocky mythos.

The feats of strength performed by Champion that Starlin showed were specifically linked to the wearing of the Power Gem, if you will notice in the narrative. The ONLY powers Champion showed were those of raw physical prowess, and since we already knew that Champion was 10 feet tall, 5000lbs of muscle with Class 100 stregth even before the Thanos Quest, it was really ridiculous for Starlin to claim that Champion's throwing a tank or weakening a force field was unusual for him. Jim Starlin was obviously weakening the other characters in an effort to show how much his own character was a bad @ss. This is a trait of poor writing skill. From the very beginning when Thanos showed up, Champion literally did nothing but swing wildly (not even showing basic boxing knowledge!) rush head long after his opponant like a skillless brawler-type (which he continued to do even after he said he was going to take it "slow and easy"roll eyes (sarcastic) ), telegraph blows like an amateur, and all in all, act for all the world as if the one writing him literally didn't know a thing about ANY KIND of fighting art.

The battle was far from the good showing of Champion you claim, but instead was both an embarrassment to the character and the skills of the writer as well. Champion's whole history embaresses himself...
Plus, what about his other boxing feat?
She-Hulk:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4770/5ea7d9ae8tr.th.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2686/d5df65bf3lt.th.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8295/a39fe1d57vn.th.jpg

Skill is skill, no matter the sport. Considering he should be millions of times a better fighter than She-Hulk in any h2h sport, going by pure hype.

Surfer:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/87/silversurferv309816ez8.th.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2687/silversurferv309817op1.th.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/359/silversurferv309818cq6.th.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7389/silversurferv309819ds4.th.jpg

You'd figure a being of supposed above Thanos in h2h status, would have destroyed Surfer...
Or would have avoided getting into a lock with Surfer's h2h skills.

Drax:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7662/silversurferv309821mz9.th.jpg

Do I even need to comment on that one?


Champion tried to hit Thanos, using any thing available. He wasn't able to. He was going to take it slow and easy, and that didn't work. He could telegraph moves light years ahead, and he still got punked.

The only embaressment to the character, is how he gets so massively overated, by basically no feats. What feats does he even have to go against the Thanos thing?
The best feat of h2h I can think of, is him putting Mantis in a full nelson, and that was mostly due to strength.

MRasheed
You have GOT to be kidding.

*sigh*

The She-Hulk fight was obviously comedy, with her doing her very best Squirrel Girl impression. And what was the reason why she was so bulked up when she came out of her robe? Whatever. In any event, the fight was only being played for laughs at Champion's expense. It was a literal joke.

I don't even understand your point in showing the Surfer fight; Radd didn't get a single blow in. The only thing I didn't like was that despite the fact that Champion was winning, he was still performing like a d@mn brawler. Unworthy of him.

The Drax encounter was again played for laughs, but at least it made sense in this context: When Drax the Destroyer is wielding the Power Gem he literally has unlimited strength. Even though the scene was set up for laughs, the point of it was to express that Drax is invincible when he has that particular Infinity Gem. The problem here is that since Starlin's collossal blunder in the Thanos vs Champion fight, every writer is writing Champion like a no-skills brawling chump. This was the whole point of my posts above, that Champion is the most unfairly abused character in comics. And I blame Jim Starlin for starting it.

Your post did not negate my argument, it only shined the spotlight on the very problem.

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by MRasheed
You have GOT to be kidding.

*sigh*

The She-Hulk fight was obviously comedy, with her doing her very best Squirrel Girl impression. And what was the reason why she was so bulked up when she came out of her robe? Whatever. In any event, the fight was only being played for laughs at Champion's expense. It was a literal joke.

I don't even understand your point in showing the Surfer fight; Radd didn't get a single blow in. The only thing I didn't like was that despite the fact that Champion was winning, he was still performing like a d@mn brawler. Unworthy of him.

The Drax encounter was again played for laughs, but at least it made sense in this context: When Drax the Destroyer is wielding the Power Gem he literally has unlimited strength. Even though the scene was set up for laughs, the point of it was to express that Drax is invincible when he has that particular Infinity Gem. The problem here is that since Starlin's collossal blunder in the Thanos vs Champion fight, every writer is writing Champion like a no-skills brawling chump. This was the whole point of my posts above, that Champion is the most unfairly abused character in comics. And I blame Jim Starlin for starting it.

Your post did not negate my argument, it only shined the spotlight on the very problem. She trained for the fight. She got beat in the first encounter, because Champ had the PG, and was ill prepared.
In the second fight, She-Hulk had trained for a while, and then took it to him bad.
The problem is, that this is how Champ is normally protrayed, and it wouldn't be as much of a joke, if Champ actually had a couple feats to his name, rather than comic talk about how good he is.

My point was that, even though Champ is supposedly the best fighter in the universe, he can't even use these skills to take down Surfer. He did absolutely nothing in reguards to making him the top fighter ever, like his usual portrayings, and that feat was no different.
Hell Surfer even matched him in strength there, until Nova distracted him.
Hmm... I wonder why almost all of Champ's fights have him fighting like a brawler, rather than the cosmic Bruce Lee, he's played out to be...
That must just be pis though...

Except, Drax has not proven to have all this strength while he's had this Gem, but meh.
Champ tried to attack Drax, and got put out instead.

I seem to remember a certain Surfer fight, that happened before IQ, in which, Champ was also portrayed out to be a brawler, that also shot energy blasts...
He didn't do a good job there either, since he also got beat.

Plus, since you want to keep talking about this, then when exactly has Champion been so awesome of a fighter that he actually deserves to be talked about?

I didn't try to negate your arguement, because there was nothing to negate. I was planning on posting a long winded arguement, but thought better, since I realized that the whole arguement was based on hype, and likeness, rather than feats.
Not to mention hating a writer, because he did nothing really wrong.

Now, I have my issues with Starlin too, but not because he wrote a nobody, losing to a somebody.

MRasheed
I don't 'hate' him. There's no need for all of that. But I do recognize him as being the most overrated of comic book writers...

The whole argument is not based on hype. That's a ridiculous statement that would only be true if these characters were actually real. Then it would sound like you were talking about Ken Shamrock (someone who has zero skill but hyped as 'the most dangerous man alive').

The argument is that the character's bio was established when he first showed up. HE NEEDED TO BE the greatest, most skilled fighter in the universe in order for that story of the Thing's "heart" to even work. But here Jim Starlin came along and threw out all of Champion's creator's bio in order to hype up his own character Thanos, and turned the Champion into a bumbling fool made even more foolish because he's been studying martial arts since the beginning of this universe. Now evry new writer who thinks like you because Starlin's Thanos Quest is now imprinted on their minds comes along and writes stupid @ss stories (like the She-Hulk one you posted) that continues the tradition started by Starlin, who is no more worthy of emulation than Rob Liefield.

All Jim Starlin that has accomplished here is ruin Champion's original story. If any Tom, D!ck or She-Hulk can work out a few weeks at Bally's Total Fitness and defeat the Champion of the Universe what does that do to the Thing's victory? It's like having a Jim Starlin inspired writer write the next Rocky movie and he makes Laila Ali knock out Apollo Creed and Clubber Lang with one punch. What would that say about Rocky?

Since you are tired of talking about it with me then I'm done. I'm sorry you completely fail to understand the point I'm making, but that only means you are a Fan and not a Creator.

Peace.

The Fake Macoy
So let me get this straight... we're supposed to go on Champions original concept instead of how he's been portrayed in nearly every appearance since then? I see what you're saying, but still, there are FAR too many showings of him being a chump to ignore. We can't be that selective when debating these things.

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by MRasheed
I don't 'hate' him. There's no need for all of that. But I do recognize him as being the most overrated of comic book writers...

The whole argument is not based on hype. That's a ridiculous statement that would only be true if these characters were actually real. Then it would sound like you were talking about Ken Shamrock (someone who has zero skill but hyped as 'the most dangerous man alive').

The argument is that the character's bio was established when he first showed up. HE NEEDED TO BE the greatest, most skilled fighter in the universe in order for that story of the Thing's "heart" to even work. But here Jim Starlin came along and threw out all of Champion's creator's bio in order to hype up his own character Thanos, and turned the Champion into a bumbling fool made even more foolish because he's been studying martial arts since the beginning of this universe. Now evry new writer who thinks like you because Starlin's Thanos Quest is now imprinted on their minds comes along and writes stupid @ss stories (like the She-Hulk one you posted) that continues the tradition started by Starlin, who is no more worthy of emulation than Rob Liefield.

All Jim Starlin that has accomplished here is ruin Champion's original story. If any Tom, D!ck or She-Hulk can work out a few weeks at Bally's Total Fitness and defeat the Champion of the Universe what does that do to the Thing's victory? It's like having a Jim Starlin inspired writer write the next Rocky movie and he makes Laila Ali knock out Apollo Creed and Clubber Lang with one punch. What would that say about Rocky?

Since you are tired of talking about it with me then I'm done. I'm sorry you completely fail to understand the point I'm making, but that only means you are a Fan and not a Creator.

Peace. The funny thing is, that even in his first appearance, he was getting hit hard by Thing. Mostly the point is, he was getting hit by Thing, and yet, Champ is an Eons old trained killer. And Thing is... well, an ill-trained boxer.

I know what you're going to say, and the fact is, Champ has had eons to hone his skills, Thing hasn't. Pro Boxers also have roughly the same time to train, so it's not even a comparison.

Hell, even back then, he also had missed Surfer, when he was like a foot away.

I must say, this is one of the dumbest conversations I've been involved in though.

I'm actually still waiting to see something of his skill to even rule this out too. Just because he beat up thing, or got hyped up on nothing in his first appearance?



Originally posted by MRasheed
That's a ridiculous statement that would only be true if these characters were actually real.
Originally posted by MRasheed
The argument is that the character's bio was established when he first showed up. HE NEEDED TO BE the greatest, most skilled fighter in the universe in order for that story of the Thing's "heart" to even work. But here Jim Starlin came along and threw out all of Champion's creator's bio in order to hype up his own character Thanos, and turned the Champion into a bumbling fool made even more foolish because he's been studying martial arts since the beginning of this universe.Hilarious.


Originally posted by MRasheed
Then it would sound like you were talking about Ken Shamrock (someone who has zero skill but hyped as 'the most dangerous man alive'). Are you talking about Ken Shamrock, or Champion?
Because either way, I find this statement completely ironic.
Here's a comic way to put it:
"Then it would sound like you were talking about Champion (someone with zero skill, but hyped up as "the best fighter in the universe"wink."


Originally posted by MRasheed
Since you are tired of talking about it with me then I'm done. I'm sorry you completely fail to understand the point I'm making, but that only means you are a Fan and not a Creator.
I completely understand your point, but I also understand that it makes no sense, and doesn't work out at all.

The funny thing is, I'm argueing about what happened all throughout his history. You're argueing about what Champion should be, based on his in-comic statements, and not his on-panel showings.

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