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who takes it ?

Been done. Abraxas gets assraped.

If an amped up Spectre couldn't destroy AM,

I don't see Abraxas accomplishing that task... Just saying.

Originally posted by Galan007
If an amped up Spectre couldn't destroy AM,

I don't see Abraxas accomplishing that task... Just saying.

I agree.

how powerful was anti monitor

Originally posted by Utrigita
how powerful was anti monitor

Easily had the potential to absorb / destroy a multiverse. Was destroying universe's with ease.

okkay a respect thread ore anything

Originally posted by Utrigita
okkay a respect thread ore anything

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/442369_1-respect-the-anti-monitor

thanks

Anti-Monitor never even had the power of one whole universe.

He dies badly.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Anti-Monitor never even had the power of one whole universe.

He dies badly.

I know where you got that idea,


But what you need to ultimately look at is the fact that before AM and COIE, DC was a Multiverse (a nigh-infinite ammount of single Universes).

After AM's rampage was finally ended, DC was reduced to nothing more then a single Universe.



And please don't try to tell me that in DC, a Multiverse is no greater then a singular Universe.

Originally posted by Galan007
And please don't try to tell me that in DC, a Multiverse is no greater then a singular Universe.

I forgot about that,

remember darthgoober made that discovery concerning the DC UniverseS, during the COIE?

He uncovered the veil and found that those UniverseS AM absorbed were a small fraction of One whole Universe, it's a fact, AM needed a few more weaker UniverseS in order to complete One whole Universe.

Now whether the One whole Universe was the same as the Marvel Prime Multiverse, shrug


Thoughts brother G?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I forgot about that,

remember darthgoober made that discovery concerning the DC UniverseS, during the COIE?

He uncovered the veil and found that those UniverseS AM absorbed were a small fraction of One whole Universe, it's a fact, AM needed a few more weaker UniverseS in order to complete One whole Universe.

Now whether the One whole Universe was the same as the Marvel Prime Multiverse, shrug


Thoughts brother G? If you look at those scans all they say is that every other Universe was a part/fraction of the one prime Universe.

Now people automatically assume that using the word(s) part, or fraction mean it's just a small part or fraction.


When really, if the Prime Universe was infinitely large, what would a fraction of that be?



After COIE a Multiverse was non-existant in DC, it's as simple as that.

Or we could also look at the fact that Spectre amped up couldn't even destroy AM.



IMO, Spectre not being able to stop AM is more impressive then the UN stopping Abraxas..

srug

Originally posted by Galan007
IMO, Spectre not being able to stop AM is more impressive then the UN stopping Abraxas.

This is why I gave AM the win also.


But I have to disagree on the part/fraction opinion though.

If I remember correctly they specifically said it was weaker/smaller universeS (a splintered Multiverse) that together made up one whole Universe.

I could be wrong, I'll find the darthgoober Post, it's quite interesting.



To me it's like the THOTI event.

Whether Thanos absorbed a Universe or a Multiverse is inconsequential when gauging it's power,

because it absorbed the LT.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I have to disagree on the part/fraction opinion though.

If I remember correctly they specifically said it was weaker/smaller universeS (a splintered Multiverse) that together made up one whole Universe.

I could be wrong, I'll find the darthgoober Post, it's quite interesting.DG does make a good point,


But the word(s) "smaller", or "weaker" are vague terms.

These divergent Universes could have been 1.5% the size of the Prime Universe,

Or they could have been 99.99999% the size of the Prime Universe, .
Originally posted by Mr Master
To me it's like the THOTI event.

Whether Thanos absorbed a Universe or a Multiverse is inconsequential when gauging it's power,

because it absorbed the LT. I couldn't agree more.

In the end, not even Spectre could defeat AM......... That says enough IMO.

Return of Dc Multiverse.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/786/786605p2.html

Originally posted by Estacado
There is a Spoiler that the Multiverse will return in DC.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/786/786605p2.html DC has technically been a Multiverse for quite a while.


In a recent issue of TT, a character voyaged to the 52'nd dimension.

Cool link though.

Originally posted by Estacado
Return of Dc Multiverse.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/786/786605p2.html

Wow, some big changes though,

According to the last issue of 52 the New DC Multiverse has 52 Universes.

I have that issue, I'll post the scans later yall.

Yo.

I think ppl are forgetting 1 thing when it comes to Spectre fighting A-M: in _CoIE_ #10 Spec's goal wasnt to eliminate the A-M, but to prevent him from making the a-m 'verse the ONLY 1 to result from the Big Bang, which as a task he obviously succeed.

however I dont recall any other moment where they "fought" beyond that 1 time.




Tazer

A n t i -Monitor.

Okay. Here is his exact post.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Okay. Here is his exact post.

Who ever takes time to read that can't dispute what the man is saying.

He was right, with the on panel evidence all the way.

I had forgotten how meticulous he was., nice, real nice DG.

really nice nikkolas for finding the post

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who ever takes time to read that can't dispute what the man is saying.

He was right, with the on panel evidence all the way.

I had forgotten how meticulous he was., nice, real nice DG. When he's showing the scans, he certainly is pretty much on point. My beef with it comes in once he starts adding in his own theories.

First off, the very idea of any multiverse, is that they are universes stacked, seperated by vibrational frequencies. In fact, many modern sciences is based on it. I'm not even sure why he added that part in, when that is what a multiverse is.
I won't even get started on the completely unsupported "anti-matter universe growing in density" and "becoming more real" stuff.

Secondly, it says DC was meant to be one whole universe, but instead was seperated into many 'weaker' ones. However, we know the reason isn't that the very time/space is really any weaker, but the idea that that the defenders were all seperated, where in the DCU that followed, they all co-existed on the same plane. But before COIE, for example; the Marvel family having its own Earth S. The GL's only existed in one universe. Firestorm only existed in one universe. The JSA having it's own universe. When it was over, this all came together as one universe with all the heros and villains to protect it. Similar to how Anti-Monitor was actually stopped

Anti-Monitor did destroy universe after universe. There is nothing to take that away from him.

And now after Infinite Crisis, the Earths are replicating again. There's currently 52, but when all is said done its going to be a megaverse according to Rip.

And for the record, it was a weaker Spectre. However he was still pretty much the most powerful guy... He was retconned later down the road into what he is known for today, in volume 3 under Ostrander and Mandrake.

Originally posted by Juntai
Anti-Monitor did destroy universe after universe. There is nothing to take that away from him. Exactly.

The Monitor himself even said that AM had destroyed thousands of Universes, .


IMO it's digging extremely deep when people attempt to belittle this feat by saying it was only one Universe, because each divergent Universe was "weaker".



Bottom line,


Before COIE/AM, DC was a Multiverse.

After COIE/AM, DC was a single Universe.Originally posted by Juntai
And for the record, it was a weaker Spectre. However he was still pretty much the most powerful guy.. Yeah Spectre was weaker then we know him today, but at the same time, he was seeing things undreamt of by even his creator .

So he was still pretty damn powerful when he fought AM.

Spectre without the Logos is not at the Living Tribunal's level, he had trouble with Captain Marvel for God's sake.

Spectre unhosted is weaker than Mxyztplk, Anti-Monitor and many, many more.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Spectre without the Logos is not at the Living Tribunal's level Well considering that any "low showing" LT has is simply disregarded as PIS, that's not too surprising.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well considering that any "low showing" LT has is simply disregarded as PIS, that's not too surprising.
What low showings?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
What low showings? Meh,

The celestial incident, and Reed's "super gun" come to mind.

The Living Tribunal didn't try to stop Protege, and Reed's "super gun" happend in a dream--retconned!

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal didn't try to stop Protege, and Reed's "super gun" happend in a dream--retconned! Last planet standing was retconned? When did that happen?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal didn't try to stop Protege, and Reed's "super gun" happend in a dream Don't cry.


Those were just some lower showings.... Every character has 'em.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Spectre without the Logos is not at the Living Tribunal's level, he had trouble with Captain Marvel for God's sake.

Spectre unhosted is weaker than Mxyztplk, Anti-Monitor and many, many more.
Brawling with a Capt.Marvel who was roughly backed by every Magical being in the DCU is not a low showing.It's not like Marvel beat him anyway.
Weaker than Mxy?nah.Spectre could of outright absorbed him if they had fought.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Last planet standing was retconned? When did that happen?
When Reed woke up and the Abstract's where alive?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
When Reed woke up and the Abstract's where alive? The gun was never meant to kill the abstracts.

Yep.

A bunch of weak mini-universes he absorbed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Don't cry.


Those were just some lower showings.... Every character has 'em.

Every character does

Originally posted by Galan007
The gun was never meant to kill the abstracts.
No, it was meant to kill Galactus, but it killed the abstract's instead.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
it was meant to kill Galactus
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
but it killed the abstract's instead.

No it didn't.


Have you even read that arc? My guess is no...

The cosmics were simply blown into other dimensions, via their own power.

Originally posted by Juntai
First off, the very idea of any multiverse, is that they are universes stacked, seperated by vibrational frequencies. In fact, many modern sciences is based on it. I'm not even sure why he added that part in, when that is what a multiverse is.
I won't even get started on the completely unsupported "anti-matter universe growing in density" and "becoming more real" stuff.
But the DC universes weren't stacked, they were overlapping. I really don't know why you have a problem with my pointing that out when it's actually shown to be that way.

And I actually said that my density analogy and description of the AM universe "becoming more real was just the best way I could think of to describe it. I was just pointing out that the AM universe didn't actually increase in size when the other universes where destroyed, if you can come up with a better way to describe it be my guest.

Originally posted by Juntai
Secondly, it says DC was meant to be one whole universe, but instead was seperated into many 'weaker' ones. However, we know the reason isn't that the very time/space is really any weaker, but the idea that that the defenders were all seperated, where in the DCU that followed, they all co-existed on the same plane. But before COIE, for example; the Marvel family having its own Earth S. The GL's only existed in one universe. Firestorm only existed in one universe. The JSA having it's own universe. When it was over, this all came together as one universe with all the heros and villains to protect it. Similar to how Anti-Monitor was actually stopped
Ok where are you getting your idea about the "weakness" being discussed referring to the placement of the heroes, because I don't remember that EVER being established on panel? I'm not saying that each universe WASN'T weaker for the lack of missing heroes, but the universes themselves were weaker for the separation also.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7531/page12qg5hn7.th.jpg
"The very fabric of their being is to weak for it's total defense".

Originally posted by Juntai
Anti-Monitor did destroy universe after universe. There is nothing to take that away from him.
Yes he DID destroy universe(I'm not trying to take that away from him) but not using his own power, he utilized both prep AND tech for pretty much everything but the absorbtion of the AM universe. Acting like he was a multiversal threat without acknowledging that simple fact is no different than making the same claim for Reed Richards without acknowledging that he used the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy/recreate the multiverse, rather than his own power.

Originally posted by Juntai
When he's showing the scans, he certainly is pretty much on point. My beef with it comes in once he starts adding in his own theories.

First off, the very idea of any multiverse, is that they are universes stacked, seperated by vibrational frequencies. In fact, many modern sciences is based on it. I'm not even sure why he added that part in, when that is what a multiverse is.
I won't even get started on the completely unsupported "anti-matter universe growing in density" and "becoming more real" stuff.

Secondly, it says DC was meant to be one whole universe, but instead was seperated into many 'weaker' ones. However, we know the reason isn't that the very time/space is really any weaker, but the idea that that the defenders were all seperated, where in the DCU that followed, they all co-existed on the same plane. But before COIE, for example; the Marvel family having its own Earth S. The GL's only existed in one universe. Firestorm only existed in one universe. The JSA having it's own universe. When it was over, this all came together as one universe with all the heros and villains to protect it. Similar to how Anti-Monitor was actually stopped

Anti-Monitor did destroy universe after universe. There is nothing to take that away from him.

And now after Infinite Crisis, the Earths are replicating again. There's currently 52, but when all is said done its going to be a megaverse according to Rip.

Agreed. Added to that is the argument that many use here. A part of infinity is still infinity..thus the universes aren't really any "Smaller" by our definition. A destroyed universe is still a destroyed universe...and we all know how ridiculously powerful a lot of the PC characters already were.

On top of that Alex uses Anti monitors power to restore the multiverse even adding Tangent which wasn't part of the original multiverse and elseworlds. Considering the thing has been dead for years and that a multiverse can still be restored with it's power is saying a whole lot. Even after the tower was destroyed, we ended up with 52 universes... had it not been destroyed, possibly much more would have been created.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

The Monitor himself even said that AM had destroyed thousands of Universes, .


IMO it's digging extremely deep when people attempt to belittle this feat by saying it was only one Universe, because each divergent Universe was "weaker".
You misunderstand Galan, my primary problem with the destruction of those other universes wasn't that they were weaker, it's that he had prep and utilized tech to destroy them. The fact that they were "weaker" comes into play when determining just how much power the Anti Matter Universe gained when they were destroyed, and by extension how much power the Anti Monitor gained when he absorbed all the power from the Anti Matter Universe.


Originally posted by Galan007
Bottom line,


Before COIE/AM, DC was a Multiverse.
But unless I'm mistaken, 616 Eternity is a multiverse of sorts due to the numerous dimensions and planes of existence within it as well. I could be wrong about that though, I just seem to remember hearing that. But if that's the case, should we assign Multiversal threat to anyone who's threatened Eternity?

Originally posted by Galan007
After COIE/AM, DC was a single Universe. Yeah Spectre was weaker then we know him today, but at the same time, he was seeing things undreamt of by even his creator .

So he was still pretty damn powerful when he fought AM.
But his being weaker means that AM was no where NEAR as powerful as many people are portraying him to be. Plenty of people beat Scarlet Witch before she was upgraded, but those people are no where near as powerful as someone who accomplished it today.

What's more, the energy AM used to battle the Spectre wasn't even his because he used his to breach the wall of creation. The energy he used to combat the Spectre was stolen from the Earth's heroes when they arrived at the dawn of time. Yet more evidence of the BS in the battle between the Spectre and the Anti Monitor.

And as for Spectre seeing things undreamt of by his creator, that in and of itself seems kinda ridiculous if you believe the Presence to be omniscient.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You misunderstand Galan, my primary problem with the destruction of those other universes wasn't that they were weaker, it's that he had prep and utilized tech to destroy them. Please tell that to the people arguing against AM for that reason then.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But unless I'm mistaken, 616 Eternity is a multiverse of sorts due to the numerous dimensions and planes of existence within it as well. I could be wrong about that though, I just seem to remember hearing that. But if that's the case, should we assign Multiversal threat to anyone who's threatened Eternity? That crap is in Marvel.

In DC, a single Universe has never been described as a Multiverse of any kind.


The Multiverse was never meant or described as being part of one Universe..

Originally posted by darthgoober
What's more, the energy AM used to battle the Spectre wasn't even his because he used his to breach the wall of creation. That right there is more then I ever saw Abraxas do.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And as for Spectre seeing things undreamt of by his creator, that in and of itself seems kinda ridiculous if you believe the Presence to be omniscient. srug

IMO it was just a way to show how greatly Spectre had been amped.

Originally posted by Galan007
Please tell that to the people arguing against AM for that reason then.
I don't know why you think they'll listen to me. But if you really think it'll help then yeah...

Originally posted by darthgoober
my primary problem with the destruction of those other universes wasn't that they were weaker, it's that he had prep and utilized tech to destroy them. The fact that they were "weaker" comes into play when determining just how much power the Anti Matter Universe gained when they were destroyed, and by extension how much power the Anti Monitor gained when he absorbed all the power from the Anti Matter Universe.

So I'm in complete support of the opinion that Anti Monitor is capable of destroying a multiverse given tech, prep, and several billion years to accomplish the task .

Originally posted by Galan007
The Multiverse was never meant or described as being part of one Universe..
But it was. It was originally one universe that split into many universes each of which were weaker than the original.

Originally posted by Galan007
That right there is more then I ever saw Abraxas do.
Oh I'm not debating the fight, just AM's perceived level of power(I never even really got into the Abraxes arc, so I don't know a lot about him).

But while I'm thinking about it, exactly how much power does that kind of thing take anyway? I thought that Waverider was capable of that kind of thing WITHOUT expending all his power?

Originally posted by Galan007
srug

IMO it was just a way to show how greatly Spectre had been amped.
But it's also a poor description since it would imply limits to the omniscience of the Presence.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't know why you think they'll listen to me. But if you really think it'll help then yeah...Meh,


Just wanted you to know why I had been debating this.



Originally posted by darthgoober
So I'm in complete support of the opinion that Anti Monitor is capable of destroying a multiverseNot the Multiverse in one foul swoop, but rather Universe by Universe.


Originally posted by darthgoober
But it was. It was originally one universe that split into many universes each of which were weaker than the original.Right,

But once they split up, the Universes were no longer one unit...

Meaning each Universe, became it's own


And remember, weaker is an extremely vague term.


Originally posted by darthgoober
But it's also a poor description since it would imply limits to the omniscience of the Presence. I agree.

But do you see where I'm coming from?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But unless I'm mistaken, 616 Eternity is a multiverse of sorts due to the numerous dimensions and planes of existence within it as well.

I could be wrong about that though,

I just seem to remember hearing that.

I have to disagree with this one point DG,

the same guy who pumped that fallacy about 616 into this forum is guilty of many outlandish claims.

616 is One Universe/Reality and nothing more, with Pocket Dimensions.

The Prime Multiverse is all the Divergent and Alternate UniverseS/RealitieS that emulate 616.

Eternity is both and all.

Originally posted by Galan007

Not the Multiverse in one foul swoop, but rather Universe by Universe.
Reed Richards did it faster and to a greater degree .


Originally posted by Galan007

Right,

But once they split up, the Universes were no longer one unit...

Meaning each Universe, became it's own


And remember, weaker is an extremely vague term.
But even if we work off the assumption that each universe increased in power after their separation(which is never touched upon), AM STILL didn't have the power of an entire Multiverse. He was 5 shy and he NEEDED to destroy those other universes to reach full power(so he still wasn't even as powerful as even Multi Eternity).


Originally posted by Galan007

I agree.

But do you see where I'm coming from?
I DO see where you're coming from and you COULD be right, but there's just no real evidence of it. You know how I am about theorizing about how powerful cosmics are(I really hate speculating), and there's just no real evidence to support AM being as powerful as many let on. It's POSSIBLE that GS is correct about just how powerful Marvel wants Phoenix to be, but without evidence we don't support that. AT MOST(going by on panel evidence) he was just below someone like Multi Eternity's level of power, which is far below where many place him in the cosmic hierarchy.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Reed Richards did it faster and to a greater degree .Yep, all on his own right?
Originally posted by darthgoober
AM STILL didn't have the power of an entire Multiverse. He was 5 shy and he NEEDED to destroy those other universes to reach full power(so he still wasn't even as powerful as even Multi Eternity). I never compared AM's power to Multi-Eternity.

I was only debating the fact that AM DIDN'T absorb just 1 Universe, and a bunch of weak little Universes .


He absorbed Universes, true Universes. That was point from the beginning.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I DO see where you're coming from and you COULD be right, but there's just no real evidence of it. You know how I am about theorizing about how powerful cosmics are(I really hate speculating), and there's just no real evidence to support AM being as powerful as many let on. It's POSSIBLE that GS is correct about just how powerful Marvel wants Phoenix to be, but without evidence we don't support that. AT MOST(going by on panel evidence) he was just below someone like Multi Eternity's level of power, which is far below where many place him in the cosmic hierarchy. Again, I never compared AM to M-E.

Just debated the amount ofUniverses he absorbed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep, all on his own right?
No he used tech and prep, just like AM .

Originally posted by Galan007
I never compared AM's power to Multi-Eternity.

I was only debating the fact that AM DIDN'T absorb just 1 Universe, and a bunch of weak little Universes .


He absorbed Universes, true Universes.
The only universe he absorbed was the Anti Matter Universe, the others he destroyed when he released Anti Matter into them. But I see what your saying.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, I never compared AM to M-E.

Just debated how many Universes he absorbed.
Again he only absorbed 1(but I still see your point), I was just clarifying that he's still no where near LT or current Spectre in power.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No he used tech and prep, just like AM Reed's tech was a little better then AM's lol.


Originally posted by darthgoober
The only universe he absorbed was the Anti Matter Universe, the others he destroyed when he released Anti Matter into them. But I see what your saying. *Destroyed* would have been the more appropriate term.

AM only absorbed his own Universe .


Originally posted by darthgoober
I was just clarifying that he's still no where near LT or current Spectre in power. I never said otherwise.

Originally posted by Galan007
Reed's tech was a little better then AM's lol.
That's because Reed's smarter .

Originally posted by darthgoober
But the DC universes weren't stacked, they were overlapping. I really don't know why you have a problem with my pointing that out when it's actually shown to be that way.

And I actually said that my density analogy and description of the AM universe "becoming more real was just the best way I could think of to describe it. I was just pointing out that the AM universe didn't actually increase in size when the other universes where destroyed, if you can come up with a better way to describe it be my guest.


Yes he DID destroy universe(I'm not trying to take that away from him) but not using his own power, he utilized both prep AND tech for pretty much everything but the absorbtion of the AM universe. Acting like he was a multiversal threat without acknowledging that simple fact is no different than making the same claim for Reed Richards without acknowledging that he used the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy/recreate the multiverse, rather than his own power. My point -- although I admit I've had a rough time finding a way to spell it out. -- is that the overlapped universes, seperated as such on wavelengths, is actually the basis of the very IDEA of a multiverse. It is something intrinsic to the concept. It is not exclusive to the DC universe. Many quantum mechanics, physics, and theories are grounded in it. What was one, became many, it's the very idea of divergent and alternate realities.

If anything, all the scans in the breakdown you made long ago, is simply not just that the DC multiverse is weaker than another multiverse, but that the idea that the post-COIE Universe, was stronger than a multiverse. At least in terms of simplicity and cohesiveness. Because it wasn't seperated as a multiverse is. . Which is exactly the point of Crisis on Infinite Earths, both in character, and editorially.

It was a full fledged multiversal infinitude. However, STRONGER as a single unit, stronger than a multiverse. It also kept many of the best aspects of each universe, including the heros, as I mentioned earlier.

But yes, I'll give you that most of Anti-Monitor's stuff was done with tech. Even fighting the then weaker Spectre, he was amping with all sorts of energy, and many of the strongest heros and villains of 5 universes. His threat was still the same, however, and he's still probably the most important bad-guy in comics history.

For reference about all realities being overlayed in the same fashion, you can either research the actual science about it, or look for other comics with a reference, or both.
For example; even JLA/Avengers suggests that even Marvel and DC's entire realities take up the same space, in a different vibrational range.
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5479578
"Another universe occupying the same space but a different vibratory plane of reality"

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's because Reed's smarter . Yeah it couldn't have been that little hand-held plot device falling into his hands that helped huh?



j/k

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah it couldn't have been that little hand-held plot device falling into his hands that helped huh?



j/k No, it was his awesome stretching powers.

Darkseid almost killed the AntiMonitor shy

Originally posted by Priest
Darkseid almost killed the AntiMonitor shy Without Alex Luthor, that "feat" would not have been possible.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree with this one point DG,

the same guy who pumped that fallacy about 616 into this forum is guilty of many outlandish claims.

616 is One Universe/Reality and nothing more, with Pocket Dimensions.

The Prime Multiverse is all the Divergent and Alternate UniverseS/RealitieS that emulate 616.

Eternity is both and all.

Nope. Theres Multi- Eternity who is the proper multiverse (e.g all the What Ifs etc) and there are the universal Eternitys such as the 616 Eternity we know who make up this greater being and who themselves are pseudo multiverses in their own rights:

Beyonder in 616, remarking on what hes discovered about that universe:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12913385689.jpg


A recent on panel distinction between a Multi- Eternity and the universal/pseudo multiversal Eternity that we all know, Eternity 616.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13714081529.jpg

These universal Eternitys all together make up this Multi-Eternity however given this recent on panel distinction in terms of role and name we cannot say as per current continuity that theres just one Eternity. There are two separate entity types, with the many smaller ones making up the bigger one. The smaller ones can be destroyed with no affect on each other or as far as we've seen this Multi Eternity as a whole. These smaller ones can be termed multiverses in their own right as aforementioned and they cannot as far as we've seen or been told on panel call upon the entire power of this Multi Eternity.

GS, make a Marvel (- and possibly DC) Hierarchy. To rival and push some press at MM.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
GS, make a Marvel (- and possibly DC) Hierarchy. To rival and push some press at MM.

Yeah sure why not. I take it you'll help me out with some scans right?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Theres Multi- Eternity who is the proper multiverse (e.g all the What Ifs etc) and there are the universal Eternitys such as the 616 Eternity we know who make up this greater being and who themselves are pseudo multiverses in their own rights:

Beyonder in 616, remarking on what hes discovered about that universe:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12913385689.jpg


A recent on panel distinction between a Multi- Eternity and the universal/pseudo multiversal Eternity that we all know, Eternity 616.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13714081529.jpg

These universal Eternitys all together make up this Multi-Eternity however given this recent on panel distinction in terms of role and name we cannot say as per current continuity that theres just one Eternity. There are two separate entity types, with the many smaller ones making up the bigger one. The smaller ones can be destroyed with no affect on each other or as far as we've seen this Multi Eternity as a whole. These smaller ones can be termed multiverses in their own right as aforementioned and they cannot as far as we've seen or been told on panel call upon the entire power of this Multi Eternity.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2659/universes1gk6.th.jpg

A HAND THAT HOLDS UNIVERSES

that was WAYYY before multi-eternity was ever introduced.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Theres Multi- Eternity who is the proper multiverse (e.g all the What Ifs etc) and there are the universal Eternitys such as the 616 Eternity we know who make up this greater being and who themselves are pseudo multiverses in their own rights:

Beyonder in 616, remarking on what hes discovered about that universe:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12913385689.jpg

Bull shit

I stomped this fallacy in the Beyonder thread, go read it and weep.



This the FOLLOWING Page,

the one that's been neglected to the onlookers:




Beyonder travels past the Dark Dimension, which is Outside of 616.

Beyonder travels past the Microverse, located in a completely Different,

and SEPARATE Universe.

Beyonder even reaches the Crossroads a Nexus of Realities,

located in-between countless UniverseS.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/858/36449653ll2.th.jpg

Beyonder Traveled across the Actual Multiverse,

(nigh-Infinite amount of Whole UniverseS)


NOT some imaginary Reality 616 Multiverse.




Nice try, did you really think I'd let you Fool us?


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A recent on panel distinction between a Multi- Eternity

and the universal/pseudo multiversal Eternity that we all know, Eternity 616.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13714081529.jpg

Bull shit

Where is it mentioned that those are "universal/pseudo multiversal" single Eternitys?


Nice try again.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
These universal Eternitys all together make up this Multi-Eternity however given this recent on panel distinction in terms of role and name we cannot say as per current continuity that theres just one Eternity. There are two separate entity types, with the many smaller ones making up the bigger one. The smaller ones can be destroyed with no affect on each other or as far as we've seen this Multi Eternity as a whole. These smaller ones can be termed multiverses in their own right as aforementioned and they cannot as far as we've seen or been told on panel call upon the entire power of this Multi Eternity.

Gibberish.

There is only One Eternity, who's made up of Aspects of himself.

There is ALL of Eternity, or Eternity's Totality or if one prefers Multi-Eternity,

(they ALL equal the Multiverse)


Then there's an Aspects or Single Realities of Eternity (countless UniverseS)

(which make up the Multiverse)


Now,

Eternity is ONE Consciousness,

and while erasing or killing ONE Aspect (a Single Universe) of Eternity will Not harm the Multiverse (his Totality) it's still the SAME Entity's Consciousness (namely ... Eternity)

Originally posted by leonidas
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2659/universes1gk6.th.jpg

A HAND THAT HOLDS UNIVERSES

that was WAYYY before multi-eternity was ever introduced.

This was WAYYY before Multi-Eternity was ever introduced.






Every Eternity is part of the Totality of Eternity "Multi-Eternity" as though they were ONE.



This is the Divergent Reality (a whole Universe) Korvac Erased with the UN:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4241/42179075ui3.th.jpg
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here.

I am an Aspect (a Universe) of .... ALL Eternity" (the Multiverse)





Now this is that same Eternity telling us One Universe is just a PART of His TOTALITY:


Wait a minute!

As in this Single Eternity/Universe is the Multiverse?





"Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality,

I am the only Aspect to succumb to Death"
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1092/d4hg3.th.jpg
"Eternity spoke of Infinite Universes beyond this"


Yes Dr Strange, as in OTHER Aspects.



Whatever ONE Reality/Eternity as in the 616 Universe experiences,

it's OBVIOUS, the TOTALITY of Eternity can FEEL/KNOW

those experiences too. Because well ... it's the SAME Entity in different forms.





So when I see Strange say,

"A HAND THAT HOLDS UNIVERSES"

I'm not surprised one bit,

after all, the same Eternity that is One Single Reality,

is the SAME Eternity that embodies the Multiverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yeah sure why not. I take it you'll help me out with some scans right?
I have a scaner, but most of my comic's are in Swedish, thus useless, the US comic's coast around 10$ in the only comic book store we have, I've bought a few but none with Universal/Multiversal influence.

Ultimate Fantastic Four, Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate X-men--I would help but there's not so much I can do.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This was WAYYY before Multi-Eternity was ever introduced.






Every Eternity is part of the Totality of Eternity "Multi-Eternity" as though they were ONE.



This is the Divergent Reality (a whole Universe) Korvac Erased with the UN:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4241/42179075ui3.th.jpg
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here.

I am an Aspect (a Universe) of .... ALL Eternity" (the Multiverse)





Now this is that same Eternity telling us One Universe is just a PART of His TOTALITY:


Wait a minute!

As in this Single Eternity/Universe is the Multiverse?





"Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality,

I am the only Aspect to succumb to Death"
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1092/d4hg3.th.jpg
"Eternity spoke of Infinite Universes beyond this"


Yes Dr Strange, as in OTHER Aspects.



Whatever ONE Reality/Eternity as in the 616 Universe experiences,

it's OBVIOUS, the TOTALITY of Eternity can FEEL/KNOW

those experiences too. Because well ... it's the SAME Entity in different forms.





So when I see Strange say,

"A HAND THAT HOLDS UNIVERSES"

I'm not surprised one bit,

after all, the same Eternity that is One Single Reality,

is the SAME Eternity that embodies the Multiverse.
This was before the Abraxas arc, and that Multi-Eternity was stated to be infinite, not near infinite.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
This was before the Abraxas arc, and that Multi-Eternity was stated to be infinite, not near infinite.

And?

Which means?

I hope you're not saying there are Two Multi-Eternitys.



btw. There's no such thing as a truly "Infinite" Universe or Multiverse or whatever.

If every Universe or Multiverse was truly "Infinite"

there would be no room for Other Universes and Multiverses.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And?

Which means?

I hope you're not saying there are Two Multi-Eternitys.



btw. There's no such thing as a truly "Infinite" Universe or Multiverse or whatever.

If every Universe or Multiverse was truly "Infinite"

there would be no room for Other Universes and Multiverses.
Cube beings like Kubik were infinite, but weaker than Celestial's which were even more infinite, remember when he talked about the different level's of infinity?
--It does not mean that Kubik is near infinite, he is truley infinite as he stated, just not as powerful as a Celestial.

Originally posted by Mr Master
btw. There's no such thing as a truly "Infinite" Universe or Multiverse or whatever.

If every Universe or Multiverse was truly "Infinite"

there would be no room for Other Universes and Multiverses. Now you're catching on.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
he is truley infinite as he stated, just not as powerful as a Celestial.



If something is truly infinite, nothing can be greater.

Otherwise the first variable was never truly infinite to begin with.



btw... Saying you have infinite power, and actually having infinite power are two completely different things.

Originally posted by Mr Master
btw. There's no such thing as a truly "Infinite" Universe or Multiverse or whatever.

If every Universe or Multiverse was truly "Infinite"

there would be no room for Other Universes and Multiverses.

Sure there is



I can take a point and translate it an infinite distance in one direction. That creates a "truly" infinite universe that happens to be linear.

If I take that same line I can translate it perpendicular to itself and discover again an infinte number of new infinte linear universes.

If I take the infinte plane formed by those linear universes and translate it perpendicular to itelf I find an infinite number of infinte planar universes.

And so and so ad infinitum.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sure there is



I can take a point and translate it an infinite distance in one direction. That creates a "truly" infinite universe that happens to be linear.

If I take that same line I can translate it perpendicular to itself and discover again an infinte number of new infinte linear universes.

If I take the infinte plane formed by those linear universes and translate it perpendicular to itelf I find an infinite number of infinte planar universes.

And so and so ad infinitum. But if everything stems from that one linear plane, then wouldn't all those other Universes be part of the same infinity?

Originally posted by Mr Master
This was WAYYY before Multi-Eternity was ever introduced.






Every Eternity is part of the Totality of Eternity "Multi-Eternity" as though they were ONE.



This is the Divergent Reality (a whole Universe) Korvac Erased with the UN:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4241/42179075ui3.th.jpg
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here.

I am an Aspect (a Universe) of .... ALL Eternity" (the Multiverse)

that's your interpretation of his dialogue, but no where does it say multiverse. the idea of multi-eternity hadn't existed so how can you attribute the term?







not necessarily. again, you're interpreting the scans based on what you know NOW. BEFORE mutli-eternity existed, ETERNITY (today's 'singular' version) itself was considered 'everything'. you can't go back and impose a retcon when no retcon has been officially made.






you've no current evidence to support that notion. you're using scans from a time before mutli-eternity existed to support a theory you're postulating regarding mutli-eternity. that can't work.

from my scan we see clearly that eternity was considered to have been a multiverse. from your scan we can conclude the same thing. but NEITHER scan can in any way be used to support any notions regarding multi-eternity.



but that eternity that once embodied the multiverse was NOT multi-eternity. sounds ridiculous to say, i know, but it's fact: multi didn't exist yet. there was just eternity. and we can't just say it was multi because that would mean strange met MULTI-eternity, that dormmammu battled MULTI-eternity, that MANY appearances by eternity were actually appearances by MULTI-eternity.

we don't have power or authority to retcon all those appearances. only mavel does.

i'm curious though: do you have a scan from somewhere that directly states that eternity (as it is viewed now) strictly represents a 'single' universe? you may have shown me, but i can't recall . . .

Originally posted by Juntai
My point -- although I admit I've had a rough time finding a way to spell it out. -- is that the overlapped universes, seperated as such on wavelengths, is actually the basis of the very IDEA of a multiverse. It is something intrinsic to the concept. It is not exclusive to the DC universe. Many quantum mechanics, physics, and theories are grounded in it. What was one, became many, it's the very idea of divergent and alternate realities.

If anything, all the scans in the breakdown you made long ago, is simply not just that the DC multiverse is weaker than another multiverse, but that the idea that the post-COIE Universe, was stronger than a multiverse. At least in terms of simplicity and cohesiveness. Because it wasn't seperated as a multiverse is. . Which is exactly the point of Crisis on Infinite Earths, both in character, and editorially.

It was a full fledged multiversal infinitude. However, STRONGER as a single unit, stronger than a multiverse. It also kept many of the best aspects of each universe, including the heros, as I mentioned earlier.

But yes, I'll give you that most of Anti-Monitor's stuff was done with tech. Even fighting the then weaker Spectre, he was amping with all sorts of energy, and many of the strongest heros and villains of 5 universes. His threat was still the same, however, and he's still probably the most important bad-guy in comics history.

nice.

i agree in particular with the 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' idea. and AM probably IS the most important bad guy in comics history.

Cuidos to you all, this thread is one of the better reads on the board lately. I'm finding it quite interesting