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Who wins this?

been done before I think

Depends on which MMJ

Originally posted by Utrigita
been done before I think

wavey

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Depends on which MMJ

238 took over a universe
616 took over a universe
616w/Fury hasn't done jack shit to earn the hype people have been giving him

None of them have the showing to put them above Abraxas. 616 has the potential to win but has never achieved it.

So it really doesn't matter on the version unless you want to go into the whole "full potential" argument.

Abraxas was killed by the UN, 616 Jaspers would have survived the CN

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Abraxas was killed by the UN, 616 Jaspers would have survived the CN

Which shot per shot has less power than the UN.

Not according to Mr. Master. He puts the CN over the UN.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Not according to Mr. Master. He puts the CN over the UN.

A single shot from the CN is less powerful than a single shot from the UN.

A CN blast will destroy a universe in it's entirety. A UN blast can destroy a multiverse.

Although the CN can destory the omniverse in theory it would take a greater number of blasts to do it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
238 took over a universe
616 took over a universe
616w/Fury hasn't done jack shit to earn the hype people have been giving him

None of them have the showing to put them above Abraxas. 616 has the potential to win but has never achieved it.

So it really doesn't matter on the version unless you want to go into the whole "full potential" argument.

Lord Mandragon

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A single shot from the CN is less powerful than a single shot from the UN.

The CN doesn't shoot anything.

The Celestial Nullifier crushes the Life-Force of a Universe,

instantaneously erasing the actual Universe into absolute nothingness.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A CN blast will destroy a universe in it's entirety. A UN blast can destroy a multiverse.

Roma & Merlyn have never had any reason to erase a Multiverse.

But they can do it just as easily with the CN, well perhaps with a second more of prep.

Why was the UN used in the Abraxas Arc and not the CN?

Because the CN Erases,

while the UN erases and Creates back.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Although the CN can destory the omniverse in theory it would take a greater number of blasts to do it.

Not exactly.

The CN doesn't work that way.

The CN destroys Crystals that contain the Life-Force of UniverseS.

Merlyn and Roma have a Crystal for every Universe in the Omniverse.

They can simply gather the Crystals and crush them all at once,

will this take Time?

Not to a being the likes of Roma or Merlyn ... they control Time.


Here she is with a Cap. Brit. would be successor:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2444/romarevive1xr7.th.jpg

Roma plucks her husband (who was Dead) from the Past:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9536/romarevive2od8.th.jpg

And brings him to the present (Alive) with a gesture.

it would be harder to destroy a Multiverse for Roma and Merlyn then it would for the UN a multiverse exist of a nigh infinite numbers of "crystals" then would have to gather each one of these it wouldn't take them much time but it wouldn't be handy for them go gather all the crystals for a multiverse and crush them, then to think of how many crystals that would needed to be crushed to destroy the omniverse ... WOW a lot of destroyed crystals hope they don't cut themselves on them

And to destroy that multiverse wouldn't help since only when the multiverse is rewritten can the Abraxas be removed and I have never seen the CN remaking anything nore rewritting anything

Originally posted by Mr Master
The CN doesn't shoot anything.

The Celestial Nullifier crushes the Life-Force of a Universe,

instantaneously erasing the actual Universe into absolute nothingness.



Roma & Merlyn have never had any reason to erase a Multiverse.

But they can do it just as easily with the CN, well perhaps with a second more of prep.

Why was the UN used in the Abraxas Arc and not the CN?

Because the CN Erases,

while the UN erases and Creates back.



Not exactly.

The CN doesn't work that way.

The CN destroys Crystals that contain the Life-Force of UniverseS.

Merlyn and Roma have a Crystal for every Universe in the Omniverse.

They can simply gather the Crystals and crush them all at once,

will this take Time?

Not to a being the likes of Roma or Merlyn ... they control Time.


Here she is with a Cap. Brit. would be successor:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2444/romarevive1xr7.th.jpg

Roma plucks her husband (who was Dead) from the Past:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9536/romarevive2od8.th.jpg

And brings him to the present (Alive) with a gesture.

That doesn't change the fact that 238 Jaspers was killed by destroying a universe and Myrlen said only that it wouldn't be that easy to beat 616 Jaspers.

The destructive power of destroying a single universe with the CN is <<<< then what the UN can do in one shot.

Hence surving a shot from the UN is more difficult that surving having the CN crush the single universe that you are in.

Originally posted by Utrigita
it would be harder to destroy a Multiverse for Roma and Merlyn then it would for the UN a multiverse exist of a nigh infinite numbers of "crystals" then would have to gather each one of these it wouldn't take them much time but it wouldn't be handy for them go gather all the crystals for a multiverse and crush them, then to think of how many crystals that would needed to be crushed to destroy the omniverse ...

It would take them time you say.

I just posted Roma controlling Time with a gesture. shrug

Forget about Time.

In any case,

I'm sure Roma can summon all the Crystals with a thought.

Originally posted by Utrigita
WOW a lot of destroyed crystals hope they don't cut themselves on them

lmfao

Stick to the debate please.


Originally posted by Utrigita
And to destroy that multiverse wouldn't help since only when the multiverse is rewritten can the Abraxas be removed and I have never seen the CN remaking anything nore rewritting anything

Not exactly,

you don't have to Remake Reality, for without Reality Abraxas is obselete.

Abraxas is a Concept, (embodiment of Destruction)

and as such depends on Reality in order to have a purpose to exist.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It would take them time you say.

I just posted Roma controlling Time with a gesture. shrug

Forget about Time.

In any case,

I'm sure Roma can summon all the Crystals with a thought.



lmfao

Stick to the debate please.




Not exactly,

you don't have to Remake Reality, for without Reality Abraxas is obselete.

Abraxas is a Concept, (embodiment of Destruction)

and as such depends on Reality in order to have a purpose to exist.

Then I will forget about time

I will don't worry

Then I find it difficuelt to understand why Abraxas was Destroying reality and the multiverse when it would spell his own destuction???

And Oblivion is also a concept but needs no reality to exist.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That doesn't change the fact that 238 Jaspers was killed by destroying a universe and Myrlen said only that it wouldn't be that easy to beat 616 Jaspers.

What does this mean?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The destructive power of destroying a single universe with the CN is <<<< then what the UN can do in one shot.

As you wish,

but I disagree.

The CN has been proven on panel to erase Reality utterly.

The UN has been proven On Panel to leave behind remnants of the Universe,

like Eternity's Spirit.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hence surving a shot from the UN is more difficult that surving having the CN crush the single universe that you are in.

I disagree.

It's an equal affair at best.

and then one can ask himself whether spirit is reality ore not but that is for the religious forum to discuss

Sweet Jesus for the love of God's sake!

Tell me why would Mr Master lie, does he have any reason for doing so?
- Thought not.

Have you guy's read both the arc's?
- Well Mr Master has, and as stated, there is no reason for him to lie.

And enough with your accusation's if you think he's wrong simply get the comic's read them through, find proof which opose his scan them and post them.

Without proof your statements is as much worth as water in the ocean.

At least Mr Master backs up his statements with might I say, flawless evidence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What does this mean?

I mean destroying a single universe would not have been enough to kill 616 Jaspers.

ie Jaspers wouldn't neccisarily survive everything the CN could throw at him just the power of destroying a single universe.

If we go back to what started this:
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Abraxas was killed by the UN, 616 Jaspers would have survived the CN

I meant that since Myrlen said that destroying a universe wouldn't be enough that a single shot from the CN would not (in this case) be as dangerous as what the UN can do.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Then I will forget about time

I will don't worry



Originally posted by Utrigita
Then I find it difficuelt to understand why Abraxas was Destroying reality and the multiverse when it would spell his own destuction???

That's his purpose,

I doubt he sits around and analyzes his own existence,

which is a looping paradox to say the least.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And Oblivion is also a concept but needs no reality to exist.

Oblivion is Nothingness.

So yes,

Oblivion is the ultimate Concept, I've always said it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
and then one can ask himself whether spirit is reality ore not but that is for the religious forum to discuss

It's ok to ask.

Yes, the Spiritual Plane is one of several that exist in every Universe.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Sweet Jesus for the love of God's sake!

Tell me why would Mr Master lie, does he have any reason for doing so?
- Thought not.

Have you guy's read both the arc's?
- Well Mr Master has, and as stated, there is no reason for him to lie.

And enough with your accusation's if you think he's wrong simply get the comic's read them through, find proof which opose his scan them and post them.

Without proof your statements is as much worth as water in the ocean.

At least Mr Master backs up his statements with might I say, flawless evidence.

That has got to be one of the creepiest things I've ever read

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unabraxasmayhem2sh0.jpg

Abraxas floats around and reality is falling apart around him

http://img281.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0unabraxaskillsallg3ps.jpg

killing Galactus throughout the multiverse and opsetting the balance all out the multiverse

Oblivion is a little difficuelt to post scans of since oblivion just is ... oblivion.

Oblivion cannot be killed by the UN since Oblivion exist when a area is nullified

Good enough for you Thanos_THOTU ???

Well I'm simply tierd at fanboy's overlooking proof because they don't like it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's ok to ask.

Yes, the Spiritual Plane is one of several that exist in every Universe.

but the question is more can a soul be consideret reality and thus be warped by a being like MJJ have never seen him manipulating souls.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Well I'm simply tierd at fanboy's overlooking proof because they don't like it.

It's not the points that you're trying to make it's you disturbing obsession with MrMaster.

Originally posted by Mr Master




That's his purpose,

I doubt he sits around and analyzes his own existence,

which is a looping paradox to say the least.



Oblivion is Nothingness.

So yes,

Oblivion is the ultimate Concept, I've always said it.

I know but it apperas that it wouldn't kill him that having reality erased around him.

The ultimate and strongest concept of them all

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I mean destroying a single universe would not have been enough to kill 616 Jaspers.

ie Jaspers wouldn't neccisarily survive everything the CN could throw at him just the power of destroying a single universe.

I can tell you this,

Merlyn himself could have crushed and Remade the Multiverse himself, (without the CN)

And Merlyn himself said he didn't have the power to stop Jaspers.

I don't think CN would have ever been able to hurt 616 Jaspers.


You guys are confusing yourselves in one part,

you're distinguishing levels of Nullification, as if there are any.

Nullification on a Universal scale is just as deadly as nullification on a Multiversal scale,

Only more Space is being affected by the SAME Energies.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I meant that since Myrlen said that destroying a universe wouldn't be enough that a single shot from the CN would not (in this case) be as dangerous as what the UN can do.

Again,

the CN does not shoot.

It Nullifies 4" Crystals.

These 4" Crystals contain the Life-Force of any given Universe.

Nullify the Crystal = no more Temporal Consciousness, (the Life-Force)

which supports the existence of a Universe.

Originally posted by Utrigita
but the question is more can a soul be consideret reality and thus be warped by a being like MJJ have never seen him manipulating souls.

He manipulates Reality,

Reality = everything except nothingness.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Merlyn himself could have crushed and Remade the Multiverse himself, (without the CN)

Didn't know that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nullification on a Universal scale is just as deadly as nullification on a Multiversal scale

Untrue. If I'm the size of a multiverse a universe sized blast will be far less deadly than a multiversal blast.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Again,

the CN does not shoot.

It Nullifies 4" Crystals.

These 4" Crystals contain the Life-Force of any given Universe.

Nullify the Crystal = no more Temporal Consciousness, (the Life-Force)

which supports the existence of a Universe.

I prefer "shoot" to "destroy a four inch crystal that contains the essence of the universe" because I have to convey the concept more than once and "shoot" is much much shorter.

This is also completely irrelivent.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I know but it apperas that it wouldn't kill him that having reality erased around him.

Who?

Abraxas or Oblivion?

Originally posted by Utrigita
The ultimate and strongest concept of them all

I wouldn't say the most powerful, possibly.

But without question by logic and definition Oblivion will be the last Concept to survive,

and still will never fade even when it's all gone.

personally I think it was crap merlyn saying that he couldn't kill Jasper it seemed like one of the biggeste schemes in the marvel history I mean first sending Captain Britain (CB) to 238 to get killed by Fury created by MJJ from 238, then having him resurrected knowing that the Fury would follow and then kill MJJ 616. He showed enormous amount of intellect and skills when planning this and after all 616 was just a piece on his chess board. I seemed more like a training to Roma in my eyes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who?

Abraxas or Oblivion?



I wouldn't say the most powerful, possibly.

But without question by logic and definition Oblivion will be the last Concept to survive,

and still will never fade even when it's all gone.

Abraxas, it don't hurt him that reality is being destroyed, he does it himself and shows no sigh of discomfort (know it is his purpose but erasing a universe ore a multiverse containing Abraxas apparently wouldn't hurt him. The only way to "kill" him is to rewrite the multiverse that Abraxas previously existed in.

I would the only one that wouldn't be hurt my nulllification, actually the larger the better.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Didn't know that.

We learn as we go.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Untrue. If I'm the size of a multiverse a universe sized blast will be far less deadly than a multiversal blast.

Again,

the range of the blast is greater,

but the same Energies are at work,

Nullification Energies.


So very True.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I prefer "shoot" to "destroy a four inch crystal that contains the essence of the universe" because I have to convey the concept more than once and "shoot" is much much shorter.

This is also completely irrelivent.

It's irrelevant cause it proves my point? confused

The CN does NOT and is NOT constricted to destroying one Universe at a time.

The Crystals can be simply gathered with a thought by Roma or Merlyn, thrown in the furnace (or CN) together and crushed simultaneously at once.

Not only taking out UniverseS, taking them all out.

In ONE "Shot."


Is it inconceivable that a being that can Remake the Multiverse,

can summon all those Crystals instantaneously? yes


Or they can simply Stop Time altogether and take as long as they wish,

as long as it requires.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Abraxas, it don't hurt him that reality is being destroyed, he does it himself and shows no sigh of discomfort (know it is his purpose but erasing a universe ore a multiverse containing Abraxas apparently wouldn't hurt him. The only way to "kill" him is to rewrite the multiverse that Abraxas previously existed in.

If you want to force yourself to believe that, go right ahead.

Otherwise pick up FF#46 - 49, and the 2001 annual.

Then we'll proceed from there.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's not the points that you're trying to make it's you disturbing obsession with MrMaster.
What?! - I'm just saying that he back up his claims and I approve of it.

okay will do that wouldn't be tonight will have to go down to the store and read them and then we will talk again. And if he doesn't have them any longer then it will take even more time.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's irrelevant cause it proves my point? confused


My choice of words proves your point?