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Well, I have a match that I've been wanting to post for a long long time. Heres the stats

VENOM: Possesses all enhanced powers of Spider-man, possesses speed almost equal to Spider-man. Able to lift a maximum of 11 tons.

The Lizard: Posesses the ability to cling and climb on walls at incredible speeds. Posesses the ability to communicate with all reptiles within a mile radius. The ability to tear flesh and other substances with claws. Able to lift approximately 12 tons.

Wow. I dont think I've ever used that many big words. Oh well. Place your bets! Mine is on the Lizard!

Actually it's more like 10.7 tons. adding Spider-Man's strength to brocks who lifted 700pounds

I said a maximum of 11 tons. And I have a Spider-man encyclopedia with venom in it, it said 11 tons. But I dont know.

Ok golem but who wins?

Originally posted by Tyranno-Chris
Well, I have a match that I've been wanting to post for a long long time. Heres the stats

VENOM: Possesses all enhanced powers of Spider-man, possesses speed almost equal to Spider-man. Able to lift a maximum of 11 tons.

The Lizard: Posesses the ability to cling and climb on walls at incredible speeds. Posesses the ability to communicate with all reptiles within a mile radius. The ability to tear flesh and other substances with claws. Able to lift approximately 12 tons.

Wow. I dont think I've ever used that many big words. Oh well. Place your bets! Mine is on the Lizard! Trust me Venom is waaaay over 11 tons. Never trust a handbook

Venom he should be faster and a bit stronger

Venom 11 tons!

According to handbooks maybe but hes way over that if you go by his strength feats in comics.

And I think Venom would take this, the symbiote is much more versatile.

Venom is around class 30-50 and Spider-Man is around class 10-15 judging by what I have seen from both. I'm talking about Brock Venom of course.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Venom is around class 30-50 and Spider-Man is around class 10-15 judging by what I have seen from both. I'm talking about Brock Venom of course.

Venom is class 100. He smacked around Classic Juggernaut. durfist

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Venom is class 100. He smacked around Classic Juggernaut. durfist

Bah, if we were judging by whom-he-fought thing, Wolverine would've been a match for pissed off Hulk in strength...


On-topic. As been said before Venom is WAY above class 11.
Even Scorpion-Venom was said to be class 40-50 and he's much weaker than Brock.
Venom beats Lizard without much trouble.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Venom is class 100. He smacked around Classic Juggernaut. durfist Originally posted by Sam Z
Bah, if we were judging by whom-he-fought thing, Wolverine would've been a match for pissed off Hulk in strength...


On-topic. As been said before Venom is WAY above class 11.
Even Scorpion-Venom was said to be class 40-50 and he's much weaker than Brock.
Venom beats Lizard without much trouble. True. Brock Venom merged with Carnage and the clone symbiote, so he had enough upgrades. Lizard goes down probably very well...

Originally posted by Rewmac
True. Brock Venom merged with Carnage and the clone symbiote, so he had enough upgrades. Lizard goes down probably very well...

You're right about the upgrades. But unfortunately authors forgot about absorbing Carnage upgrade.
I'm not even 100% sure they remember clone thing.

But he does seem stronger than he originally was.

Absorbing the Carnage symbiote didn't make him stronger though, all he did was beat up Spider-man and it wasn't like he couldn't do that before. Unless it was actually stated nothing seemed to change...except at one point the Carnage symbiote started fighting back against Brock.

And as for Venom being an 11 toner, that was only on his first appearance and perhaps second but after that the symbiote must have gotten stronger.

And I think Gargan is as strong as Brock ( though you would have thought he would be stronger because he could lift 10-12 tons before the symbiote merged with him) but his problem is he isn't as durable as Brock is, Gargan doesn't seem to be able to take the same punishment for some reason...though he can make a killer tail

LOL I forgot about that "the other" thing.

The reason why I think that authors forgot about absorbing Carnage upgrade is because in further books Cassidy was bonded with symbiote that clearly was THE Carnage symbiote, as if he never lost it.

Also, when Gargan merged with the Venom symbiote he wasn't wearing the scorpion suit. So he was an average non-superpowered skinny guy.

Originally posted by Sam Z
LOL I forgot about that "the other" thing.

The reason why I think that authors forgot about absorbing Carnage upgrade is because in further books Cassidy was bonded with symbiote that clearly was THE Carnage symbiote, as if he never lost it.

Also, when Gargan merged with the Venom symbiote he wasn't wearing the scorpion suit. So he was an average non-superpowered skinny guy.

Gargan has Super powers without the suit, read his first appearance he clearly states he has super strength before he puts on the suit though he only demonstrates after, that and why would he have needed that radiation treatment if he just needed the suit??

Also was it ever stated reabsorbing the Carnage symbiote boosted Brocks strength?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Absorbing the Carnage symbiote didn't make him stronger though, all he did was beat up Spider-man and it wasn't like he couldn't do that before. Unless it was actually stated nothing seemed to change...except at one point the Carnage symbiote started fighting back against Brock.

And as for Venom being an 11 toner, that was only on his first appearance and perhaps second but after that the symbiote must have gotten stronger.

And I think Gargan is as strong as Brock ( though you would have thought he would be stronger because he could lift 10-12 tons before the symbiote merged with him) but his problem is he isn't as durable as Brock is, Gargan doesn't seem to be able to take the same punishment for some reason...though he can make a killer tail
He did say that he feels himself stronger then ever.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Gargan has Super powers without the suit, read his first appearance he clearly states he has super strength before he puts on the suit though he only demonstrates after, that and why would he have needed that radiation treatment if he just needed the suit??

Also was it ever stated reabsorbing the Carnage symbiote boosted Brocks strength? Gargan has no control over the symbiote, Brock on the otherhand has. That's why he can be stronger. Brock is a perfect host to the symbiote if you read a the Gargan saga the maffia boy wasn't good enough but he could find Gargan who was the best out of shitleaguers. So Brock Venom is much stronger.

Originally posted by Estacado
He did say that he feels himself stronger then ever.

Wasn't when he first reabsorbed it was it? If it was I can't remember that part.

It was in the book where he went to the jail to absorb the Kleetus's symbiote.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Gargan has no control over the symbiote, Brock on the otherhand has. That's why he can be stronger. Brock is a perfect host to the symbiote if you read a the Gargan saga the maffia boy wasn't good enough but he could find Gargan who was the best out of shitleaguers. So Brock Venom is much stronger.

I suppose but I wouldn't think you would need to control the symbiote for it to make you stronger, you would think the symbiote would make its host as strong as it possibly can.

Originally posted by Estacado
It was in the book where he went to the jail to absorb the Kleetus's symbiote.

Ah yeah your right, don't know why I never noticed that.

Originally posted by Sparkz
I suppose but I wouldn't think you would need to control the symbiote for it to make you stronger, you would think the symbiote would make its host as strong as it possibly can. Yes you need take control over to use it as a weapon because if it uses you it only uses it's own symbiotic strenght...

Originally posted by Rewmac
Yes you need take control over to use it as a weapon because if it uses you it only uses it's own symbiotic strenght...

i get that but I don't see how controlling it makes it stronger, forming weapons and such yeah...but not stronger.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Wasn't when he first reabsorbed it was it? If it was I can't remember that part. Venom #18

Originally posted by Sparkz
Gargan has Super powers without the suit, read his first appearance he clearly states he has super strength before he puts on the suit though he only demonstrates after, that and why would he have needed that radiation treatment if he just needed the suit??

Also was it ever stated reabsorbing the Carnage symbiote boosted Brocks strength?
Gargan=loser.
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4168/31193558ni5.th.jpg

Originally posted by Sparkz
i get that but I don't see how controlling it makes it stronger, forming weapons and such yeah...but not stronger. Look at Spidey vs. Gargan fight. Spidey was more an asskicker than Gargan...And villians at their first appearence are stronger than the usual appearence, and just look at Brock. Mostly beating Spidey.

Originally posted by Estacado
Gargan=loser.
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4168/31193558ni5.th.jpg

Was that supposed to prove something??

Originally posted by Rewmac
Look at Spidey vs. Gargan fight. Spidey was more an asskicker than Gargan...And villians at their first appearence are stronger than the usual appearence, and just look at Brock. Mostly beating Spidey.

Yeah I know, I wasn't saying Gargan wasn't weaker I just didn't see why he would be...and also I think Spidey was kicking his ass due to a lack of durability.

Well it is a kind of difficulty for him to bear the symbiote...
Eddie never had problems like that.

Originally posted by Estacado
Well it is a kind of difficulty for him to bear the symbiote...
Eddie never had problems like that.

YEah but we didn't see Venom till about a year or so after he got the symbiote so he had plenty of time to adjust. Gargan hasn't had it that long yet. So for all we know Brock felt like that at first too, I doubt it but it is possible.

Gargan has the suit for about 2 years now.....

Originally posted by Sparkz
YEah but we didn't see Venom till about a year or so after he got the symbiote so he had plenty of time to adjust. Gargan hasn't had it that long yet. So for all we know Brock felt like that at first too, I doubt it but it is possible. Originally posted by Estacado
Gargan has the suit for about 2 years now..... Eddie adjusted to the suit less then 2 years.

Originally posted by Estacado
Gargan has the suit for about 2 years now.....

In real time but not comic time, its about 6 months in comic time, at least that's how I figure though i may be wrong I'm not really sure actauly, we need a timeline damn it

Originally posted by Sparkz
In real time but not comic time, its about 6 months in comic time, at least that's how I figure though i may be wrong I'm not really sure actauly, we need a timeline damn it He appeared in the Marvel Knights - Spider-Man 2005 - March issue, the number is #10

Originally posted by Rewmac
He appeared in the Marvel Knights - Spider-Man 2005 - March issue, the number is #10

So yeah that's only a few months in comic time then perhaps a year at the most.

Even Spider-Man marks this at Gargan "A loser dressed like Venom is still a loser."

Originally posted by Sparkz
I suppose but I wouldn't think you would need to control the symbiote for it to make you stronger, you would think the symbiote would make its host as strong as it possibly can.

Look at Spiderman. The symbiote didn't boost his stats that much. When Brock got it, it boosted his strength alot more. 2nd, Brock was an olympic level athlete before he got the suit. He also worked out alot with the sybmbiote. So it's partly the symbiote, and it's partly that Brock was tough as nails without it. Scorpion on the other hand, was about class 15-20ish before he got the symbiote. He's approximately as strong as Brock Venom supposedly. BUT........We know the suit could make him even stronger. Thus, the proof, that he's not using at it's full power and that he can't control it. Plus, Brock never had to deal with effects like the ones referenced by Estacado's scan. It doesn't like Gargan as much as it did Brock.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Look at Spiderman. The symbiote didn't boost his stats that much. When Brock got it, it boosted his strength alot more. 2nd, Brock was an olympic level athlete before he got the suit. He also worked out alot with the sybmbiote. So it's partly the symbiote, and it's partly that Brock was tough as nails without it. Scorpion on the other hand, was about class 15-20ish before he got the symbiote. He's approximately as strong as Brock Venom supposedly. BUT........We know the suit could make him even stronger. Thus, the proof, that he's not using at it's full power and that he can't control it. Plus, Brock never had to deal with effects like the ones referenced by Estacado's scan. It doesn't like Gargan as much as it did Brock.

Yeah but the symbiote didn't boosts Pete's powers because it hadn't absorbed his powers at the time and hadn't gotten stronger.

After all at first it only gave Brock Spidey's strength plus his own, then it got stronger after a while then got upgrades. And I don't think Spider-man had the symbiote for that long either, come to think of it he was also constantly taking it off.

Originally posted by Sparkz
So yeah that's only a few months in comic time then perhaps a year at the most. It's 2007...And he is Thunderbolts now...

Originally posted by Rewmac
It's 2007...And he is Thunderbolts now...

Yeah I know it's 2007 but comic time moves slower than real time otherwise well, Spidey would be in his 50's, Iron Man would be like 60 or 70 etc

Originally posted by Estacado
Even Spider-Man marks this at Gargan "A loser dressed like Venom is still a loser." ouch

haermm
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9177/34321278dh9.jpg

Originally posted by Sparkz
Yeah I know it's 2007 but comic time moves slower than real time otherwise well, Spidey would be in his 50's, Iron Man would be like 60 or 70 etc Only in ages, not in years. Years go as usual but they don't age like the years go.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Gargan has Super powers without the suit, read his first appearance he clearly states he has super strength before he puts on the suit though he only demonstrates after, that and why would he have needed that radiation treatment if he just needed the suit??

Also was it ever stated reabsorbing the Carnage symbiote boosted Brocks strength? You sure? Cause when Gargan met Spider-man in the issue before he bonded with the symbiote Spider-man always squashed him against a wall. It didn't seem that Gargan has any powers.

Also it's true that the better bonding between host and the symbiote is, the stronger they become. Eddie Brock was able to sense and see the symbiote even when they were seperated.
Besides Brock's own strength matters as well, he has some crazy feats even without the symbiote.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You sure? Cause when Gargan met Spider-man in the issue before he bonded with the symbiote Spider-man always squashed him against a wall. It didn't seem that Gargan has any powers.

Also it's true that the better bonding between host and the symbiote is, the stronger they become. Eddie Brock was able to sense and see the symbiote even when they were seperated.
Besides Brock's own strength matters as well, he has some crazy feats even without the symbiote. He only had powers in the 90s cartoon. Gargan's strenght is in the battle suit.

Sparkz : Only need to read the issue when he appears and the one after it.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You sure? Cause when Gargan met Spider-man in the issue before he bonded with the symbiote Spider-man always squashed him against a wall. It didn't seem that Gargan has any powers.

Also it's true that the better bonding between host and the symbiote is, the stronger they become. Eddie Brock was able to sense and see the symbiote even when they were seperated.
Besides Brock's own strength matters as well, he has some crazy feats even without the symbiote.

Its safe to assume that when Pete did that Gargan just didn't fight back and wanted a conversation, besides would you go to a very enraged Spider-man if you didn't have any powers skills etc?

Ah yeah fair enough, yeah like when Brock took at about 10 cops in pure H2H that was pretty good.

Originally posted by Rewmac

Sparkz : Only need to read the issue when he appears and the one after it.

Why?

My money is on Venom. I t hink he would just want it too bad and has a slight edge as far as skills

Originally posted by Rewmac
He only had powers in the 90s cartoon. Gargan's strenght is in the battle suit.



i'm afraid not , When Stillwell was giving him his powers he not only stated he was super human, he said he would give him the powers of a scorpion, and then Gargan mentions how strong he is.

Now if all of Gargans abilities come from the suit then why would he go through with all that radioactive treatment?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Why? There is a conversation between Norman and Gargan as Venom. He says that he just made him a new battlesuit. Gargan says with symbiote he is stronger with the suit. Meaning Gargan has no powers without the suit.

Originally posted by Rewmac
There is a conversation between Norman and Gargan as Venom. He says that he just made him a new battlesuit. Gargan says with symbiote he is stronger with the suit. Meaning Gargan has no powers without the suit.

1 if you are referring to MK 11 the only thing like that conversation that took place was Osborn complaining that Gargan was wearing the symbiote instead of the battle suit he made.

Second what you said doesn't mean Gargan has no powers without his battle suit. It means that he is stronger with the symbiote than he is when only wearing the battle suit.

Hell in MK 9 Gargan explains how Doctors doubled his strength and Osborn upgraded his suit. Then Peter tells him he doesn't care about the fact his powers were upgraded, if it was just the suit giving him his strength Pete wouldn't say powers would he, he would say tech or suit etc...

I'll might need a scan. Because The Scorpion didn't have any super strength without the suit.

Originally posted by Rewmac
I'll might need a scan. Because The Scorpion didn't have any super strength without the suit.

Ok then read this http://www.marvel.com/universe/Venom_%28Mac_Gargan%29

under powers it states Scorpion can lift 15 tons, if he required his suit to do it that would be stated or stated under weapons. And I'll get a scan when I can but I can't get to a scanner at this time.

Originally posted by Rewmac
He only had powers in the 90s cartoon. Gargan's strenght is in the battle suit.
Gargan was a real badass in the cartoon.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Its safe to assume that when Pete did that Gargan just didn't fight back and wanted a conversation, besides would you go to a very enraged Spider-man if you didn't have any powers skills etc? Hell no, I wouldn't. Especially after reading ASM#540 lol
Probably you're right, he does have the powers.
Originally posted by Sparkz

Ah yeah fair enough, yeah like when Brock took at about 10 cops in pure H2H that was pretty good. Yeah, or when he beat one of the five symbiotes with his bare hands and broke metal bonds...

Originally posted by Sam Z

Hell no, I wouldn't. Especially after reading ASM#540 lol
Probably you're right, he does have the powers.
Yeah, or when he beat one of the five symbiotes with his bare hands and broke metal bonds...

Damn why can't that issue be out here yet Glad someone finally agree's with me lol

lol that's a better example the one I brought up lol hmmm I suddenly want to see Brock get into a fight with Kassady both without the symbiotes, obvious who would win but it'd be cool to watch.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Damn why can't that issue be out here yet Glad someone finally agree's with me lol If I waited for the issue to come out in Russia I wouldn't be able to read it untill 2015 or so lol Strong DC++ rules!
Originally posted by Sparkz

lol that's a better example the one I brought up lol hmmm I suddenly want to see Brock get into a fight with Kassady both without the symbiotes, obvious who would win but it'd be cool to watch. Yeah, that'd be cool to watch.

Originally posted by Sam Z
If I waited for the issue to come out in Russia I wouldn't be able to read it untill 2015 or so lol Strong DC++ rules!
Yeah, that'd be cool to watch.

lol it normally takes an extra 3-4 months for it to get to me.

The lizard can use his healing factor. And Lizard is faster. Ever seen him on walls? And the claws could rip the symbiote off of him.

Originally posted by Tyranno-Chris
The lizard can use his healing factor. And Lizard is faster. Ever seen him on walls? And the claws could rip the symbiote off of him.

Venom has a healing factor, Venom is faster, and if Wolverines claws couldn't rip off the symbiote the Lizards won't either. And the Lizard can't actually hurt Venny... soooo

Are Carnage's claws sharper than wolvie's? Cause carnage ripped the suit off. And wolverine probably wasnt strong enough to rip it off. However, the lizard just might be.

Originally posted by Tyranno-Chris
Are Carnage's claws sharper than wolvie's? Cause carnage ripped the suit off. And wolverine probably wasnt strong enough to rip it off. However, the lizard just might be.

No, Wolverines claws are sharper mainly because they are adimantium. And when did Carnage rip the Venom symbiote of Brock? I know he has ripped it, but not off.

Originally posted by Tyranno-Chris
Are Carnage's claws sharper than wolvie's? Cause carnage ripped the suit off. And wolverine probably wasnt strong enough to rip it off. However, the lizard just might be. That doesn't matter, Venom was able to rip the suit of Carnage, Lizard still loses.

Or, the lizard would do what Spidey did in Spider-man 3, make so much noise that the suit splits with Brock. Then, well, Brock is lizard food. He can make noise, ya know.

Originally posted by Tyranno-Chris
Or, the lizard would do what Spidey did in Spider-man 3, make so much noise that the suit splits with Brock. Then, well, Brock is lizard food. He can make noise, ya know.
Not enough noise to hurt Venom a bit. It takes a powerfull sonicgun to hurt Venom.

Venom devours the Lizard.

Brock has gone toe-to-toe with some very heavy hitters, his strength fluctuates between class 20 to class 50 at times. Add in the fact that his weaker 'predecesor' beats Connors like a red headed step-child and you have a walking suitcase/shoes.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Not enough noise to hurt Venom a bit. It takes a powerfull sonicgun to hurt Venom. If it's the Brock version. Stupid metal sticks won't do a damn thing...