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This is an alternate version of Cap instead of him getting the SSS serum. Cap got bitten by a radioactive Spider. Cap now has class 15 strength, Spidermans durability and spider sense..but he has no webbing and cannot stick to walls. Cap is as skilled the 616 Cap and has his shield.

He runs this gauntlet.


1. Elecktra with 100 handninjas

2. Spiderman

3. Wolverine

4. Venom

5. Sabretooth

6. Cyber

7. Gorgon (Cap gets np psyblocker but Gorgon cant use his stare). Gorgon has his sword.

8. Wonder Man

9. Hulk

10. Gamora

Makes it to Gorgon imo

Originally posted by golem370
Makes it to Gorgon imo

Take this into account. Even without spider sense. Cap can sum up an opponents abilities just by looking at them.
http://img426.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericavol301286me.jpg

"For he was an experienced warrior able to size up his opponents with a glance."

Cap has learnt an alien martial art in one day. Now combine that with spider sense, one second before hes attacked he knows where he is going to be attacked and where to go.

Remember how Spiderman tried to catch a bullet with Caps training. If Cap has spider sense he would have caught the bullet and be able to do even more insane stuff. His analytical abilities would be insane and his spier sense would probably be more powerful where I reckon he could do more than just predict one sceond in advance.

I didn't see the no stare thing so he makes it to Wonder Man.

Originally posted by golem370
I didn't see the no stare thing so he makes it to Wonder Man.

I see him getting past WW as well. Cap 1 ton strength was able to one shot Thunderball. At class 15 strength 15 x10 = ?

Wonder Man imo is way tougher also can fly

150tons

Originally posted by golem370
Wonder Man imo is way tougher also can fly

Yeah Cap has 15 ton strength now. He has mad analytical abilities and he can use long range attack with his shield.

Can WW fly without jets now?

Originally posted by golem370
150tons

WW is put at 95 tons....well ok thats his bio. Lets put it this way at 1( ton strength Cap should have no problem making WW feel his punches.

Wonder Man- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Wonder_Man

WW is Wonder Woman WM is Wonder Man.

Originally posted by golem370
Wonder Man- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Wonder_Man

I still think Cap could win. If he can hurt Namor at class 1 strength whats Cap gonna do at class 15. Plus WW aint as fast as Spiderman either, is he?

Originally posted by golem370
WW is Wonder Woman WM is Wonder Man.

Ooops, you know what I mean.

Wonder Man can fly at subsonic speeds 5 - Subsonic: peak range: 250-500 miles per hour

Originally posted by golem370
Wonder Man can fly at subsonic speeds 5 - Subsonic: peak range: 250-500 miles per hour

Ok well this is what I think.

1. Is that faster than a bullet?
2. Does he use his flight like Northstar where he can incorporate it into his fighting?

I am not sure I saw him do a flying tackle to Thing. Bullets usely travel at 900mph atleast a hand gun bullet.

Captain America with Spider-Man's abilities would be cool but I believe Wonder Man would be to much.

He could literally just toss pickup trucks and cars like a foot ball over and over without much pause.

Originally posted by golem370
I am not sure I saw him do a flying tackle to Thing. Bullets usely travel at 900mph atleast a hand gun bullet.

Which is faster than WM can fly and Cap has reacted bullets after they have been fired. As I mentioned before WM doesnt using his flying in H2H combat like Northstar does.


Originally posted by golem370
He could literally just toss pickup trucks and cars like a foot ball over and over without much pause.

Well Cap at 1 ton strength made his shield go through one end of the truck to the other. At 15 ton strength Cap could probably just deflect the trucks and cars with his shield. Since Cap is faster than WM he could probably hit WM when he goes to lift up a car. As WM lifts up the car or truck Cap hits him with the shield. I can see Cap hitting WM with the shield again and again and again in onslaught that would take him down.

Wonderman is a lot more durable than Namor, its also very debatable whether he is a 95 tonner, he was touted as being almost as strong as Thor when he first apeared.

In his 90's solo run they were comparing him to Hulk in strength and yes he can fly without his jets.

Its even in his bio.



Although it seems that particular bio was written by a dyslexic.

He can also run faster than most cars, hes a lot faster than Cap if we're talking pure speed and pretty agile for a big man.

Hes never been the best of fighters though and Cap trained him in hand to hand, Wondermans reflexes are above peak human, to say Caps faster than him is very debatable.

I think he also still has an ionic form as well as his more human looking one, although its been a while since I read anything with him in it.

Cap has he combat skills over him but Wonderman can and has taken hits from Hulk, Thor and Hercules and got back up.

No offense but debating on handbooks and bio's and not knowing much about the character isn't the best way to say one character can take another, even a Cap that can press 15 tons has his hands full with Wonderman.

Originally posted by Hercules


No offense but debating on handbooks and bio's and not knowing much about the character isn't the best way to say one character can take another, even a Cap that can press 15 tons has his hands full with Wonderman.

Well im not completely ignorant. I was reading West Coast Avengers for awhile you know, but yeah I know bios arent accurate my point was that as far as I know WM was not as strong as people like The Hulk and Hercules.

In all the showings I have seen of WM I ahve never seen him have strength as good as Thor or Hulk.

Dont forget that Cap has Spidermans speed and spider sense as well. We all know the crazy stuff that Cap can do at "peak human" levels. Giving him spider sense will give him insane analysing abilities.

15 ton is a lot less than WMs strength but at that level Cap would have no problem hurting WM if he can hurt Namor at 1 ton. Yeah I know you said Namor isnt as durable as WM but my point was Cap was aonly at 1 ton strength. For somebody like Cap 15 tons is a HUGE upgrade.

I also remember reading in his bio that he could fly, but I was asking because sometimes people powers change eg Spiderman and stingers, they were one day and gone the next.

Spiderman is more agile than Wonderman but in a foot race, I would be backing Simon Williams.

Its not just a question of him hurting Wonderman, its a question of him doing enough damage to put him down, I am seriously doubting Cap can hit harder than the Abomination who Wonderman took a lot of shots from and put down.

Wonderman has regulary taken shots from guys like Hercules, Thor, Hulk, Abomination, Gamma Burn (bet you don't remember her do you) Tyrak, Goliath (Atlas) and a host of other heavy hitters and not stayed down.

All these people's strength exceeds WM's durabilty (if that makes sense) Cap is the more agile and the better fighter but hes going to find Wonderman very tough imo.

I'm not even sure if he makes it that far though, no one on that list is going to be a push over.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well im not completely ignorant. I was reading West Coast Avengers for awhile you know, but yeah I know bios arent accurate my point was that as far as I know WM was not as strong as people like The Hulk and Hercules.

In all the showings I have seen of WM I ahve never seen him have strength as good as Thor or Hulk.

Ahh you sneaked in an edit, did you read any of his solo run in the 90's?

He has held up Avengers Island when it was teetering on a colum of dead and crumbling lava men, only for a couple of seconds but considering the weight of Hydro base and the fact he was channeling his ionic energy through his rocket belt to keep him aloft very impressive.

Hercules has also compared his blows to Thors and he was said to hit as hard as Thor's hammer.

When Hulk apeared in his mini he and Prof Hulk were debating who was stronger.

I guess it all depends on how much you ahve read, personaly I wouldn't have said he was as strong as they were no, but he is a legit class 100.

Originally posted by Hercules
Ahh you sneaked in an edit, did you read any of his solo run in the 90's?

No.

Originally posted by Hercules

He has held up Avengers Island when it was teetering on a colum of dead and crumbling lava men, only for a couple of seconds but considering the weight of Hydro base and the fact he was channeling his ionic energy through his rocket belt to keep him aloft very impressive.

Hercules has also compared his blows to Thors and he was said to hit as hard as Thor's hammer.

When Hulk apeared in his mini he and Prof Hulk were debating who was stronger.

I guess it all depends on how much you ahve read, personaly I wouldn't have said he was as strong as they were no, but he is a legit class 100.

Fair enough. I still think Caps upgrade are going to help alot though.

I don't see him beating Venom....

Originally posted by Soljer
I don't see him beating Venom....

You're having a laugh. Do you know how insanely powerful Spiderman would be with Caps skill set?

Originally posted by golem370
Makes it to Gorgon imo your an idiot and a fanboy. Cap without the np psyblocker and if gorgon had the stare would still win, Spiderman has super speed, even if gorgon knew what moves were coming he still wouldnt be able to react fast enough to block them, hed simply know that he was getting his head knocked off, and the stare wouldnt matter, its overrated not only does gorgon rarely ever use it, but a super strength cap would have knocked his head off his shoulders with the shield before it could even happen.


Cap gets to WM from there...it gets tough, i think he could take gamora though...

4 is tricky. I can see that going either way. If it's Gargan, Cap gets to Wonder Man. Brock on the other hand, 50/50 either way. If he gets past Brock, then Wonder Man is tricky. He CAN win, but it would depend on which version of WM it was and where they fought. If it's somewhere like a city with lots of surfaces, I'd give the edge to Spidey-Cap. Open field, arena setting, Wonder Man.

Cap with spideys powers would make short work of Venom.

Depends, if this is Brock Venom than Cap gets to him and dies.
If Gargan, then gets further.

Stop at three.

Btw, Wolverine should be at 5, and Sabertooth at 3.

And Hulk should be at the place of Gamora.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
4 is tricky. I can see that going either way. If it's Gargan, Cap gets to Wonder Man. Brock on the other hand, 50/50 either way.

Its Brock. Please tell me how Brock is going to beat Cap-Spiderman?

Cap at normal strength level has knocked out Thunderball spark the **** out. Thunderball was class 10.

A dying Cap has made Giant Mans whole body go numb with one finger. Give Cap 15 ton strength what the **** is Brock gonna do.

Furthermore Spiderman is faster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman in the face all day. What the **** is Brcok gonna do, Brock is gonnaget his ass handed to him.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest


If he gets past Brock, then Wonder Man is tricky. He CAN win, but it would depend on which version of WM it was and where they fought. If it's somewhere like a city with lots of surfaces, I'd give the edge to Spidey-Cap. Open field, arena setting, Wonder Man.

Its the current verison of WM

"Cap at normal strength level has knocked out Thunderball spark the **** out. Thunderball was class 10.

A dying Cap has made Giant Mans whole body go numb with one finger. Give Cap 15 ton strength what the **** is Brock gonna do.

Furthermore Spiderman is faster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman in the face all day. What the **** is Brcok gonna do, Brock is gonnaget his ass handed to him."



Originally posted by Sam Z
Depends, if this is Brock Venom than Cap gets to him and dies.
If Gargan, then gets further.

Its Brock like I said.....

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Stop at three.

Btw, Wolverine should be at 5, and Sabertooth at 3.

And Hulk should be at the place of Gamora.

Great joke. Keep em coming.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Its Brock like I said.....


In this case Cap stops at him, unless he has a sonicgun nearby.
And Spider-man's strength and speed will only help him to survive longer but in the end he still dies.

loses at 1

Stops at Venom.

Oh, and Gorgon would rape him.

Originally posted by Sam Z
In this case Cap stops at him, unless he has a sonicgun nearby.
And Spider-man's strength and speed will only help him to survive longer but in the end he still dies.

Did you read anything I posted? Please explain how Venom beats Cap.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Stops at Venom.

Oh, and Gorgon would rape him.

Explain how Venom wins.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Did you read anything I posted? Please explain how Venom beats Cap.
Um... yeah. Class 15 strength + spider sense and durability + Rogers skills and shield. He still dies a painful death.
Originally posted by Alfheim

Explain how Venom wins. Explain how Cap stands a chance.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Um... yeah. Class 15 strength + spider sense and durability + Rogers skills and shield. He still dies a painful death.
Explain how Cap stands a chance.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its Brock. Please tell me how Brock is going to beat Cap-Spiderman?

Cap at normal strength level has knocked out Thunderball spark the **** out. Thunderball was class 10.

A dying Cap has made Giant Mans whole body go numb with one finger. Give Cap 15 ton strength what the **** is Brock gonna do.

Furthermore Spiderman is faster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman in the face all day. What the **** is Brcok gonna do, Brock is gonnaget his ass handed to him.




Furthermore if Cap has spide sense it would be more advanced.

*Posting from work*

Uh, Spider-man's strenght doesn't do anything against Venom usually, I don't see pressure point attacks or something similiar working through the symbiote.

Venom's fast as Spider-man which enables him to tag Spider-man. I don't see how Cap could hurt him, maybe with a shield throw powerful enough, but I think Venom could dodge it or catch it. rebounding shots from the walls wouldn't really do any good either as Venom has a 360 degree vision (the Symbiote sees for him)

Cap-man could propably block his punches and such, but what good would a shield do against 10 tendrils? Invisibility?

Cap-man would beat the classic Venom though. (The suit didn't offer that much protection back in the ol' good days, nor was Venom that good either)

Originally posted by Jyppe
*Posting from work*

Uh, Spider-man's strenght doesn't do anything against Venom usually, I don't see pressure point attacks or something similiar working through the symbiote.

If Cap can KO Thunderball at class 1 strength at class 15 strength he will be able to KO somebody who can lift a 150 tons.

Originally posted by Jyppe

Venom's fast as Spider-man which enables him to tag Spider-man. I don't see how Cap could hurt him, maybe with a shield throw powerful enough, but I think Venom could dodge it or catch it. rebounding shots from the walls wouldn't really do any good either as Venom has a 360 degree vision (the Symbiote sees for him)

Cap-man could propably block his punches and such, but what good would a shield do against 10 tendrils? Invisibility?

Cap-man would beat the classic Venom though. (The suit didn't offer that much protection back in the ol' good days, nor was Venom that good either)

Cap with spider sense and agility would be even faster. Spiderman is afster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman all day. Cap would have no trouble dodging Venom.

I would Beast as slightly slower than Cap or the same in terms of reflexes and look what Cap did to Beast he compeletely demolished him. If venom has the same speed level as Spiderman Cap is gonna punch him up all day, the only chance is his tendrils and if Cap wants to he can keep his distance and use his shield.

Originally posted by King KAM
your an idiot and a fanboy. Cap without the np psyblocker and if gorgon had the stare would still win, Spiderman has super speed, even if gorgon knew what moves were coming he still wouldnt be able to react fast enough to block them, hed simply know that he was getting his head knocked off, and the stare wouldnt matter, its overrated not only does gorgon rarely ever use it, but a super strength cap would have knocked his head off his shoulders with the shield before it could even happen.


Cap gets to WM from there...it gets tough, i think he could take gamora though...

With those remarks you are the idiot.

Originally posted by golem370
With those remarks you are the idiot.

In all afirness I think he can make it to Gamora, but im more polite.

Originally posted by Alfheim
If Cap can KO Thunderball at class 1 strength at class 15 strength he will be able to KO somebody who can lift a 150 tons.



Cap with spider sense and agility would be even faster. Spiderman is afster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman all day. Cap would have no trouble dodging Venom.

I would Beast as slightly slower than Cap or the same in terms of reflexes and look what Cap did to Beast he compeletely demolished him. If venom has the same speed level as Spiderman Cap is gonna punch him up all day, the only chance is his tendrils and if Cap wants to he can keep his distance and use his shield.

Spider-sense will be negated by the symbiote. Why would Captain-man move any faster than regual spider-man? Maybe his movement in a battle would be faster, because of his training, but the stats would still be same.

When was the last time brute force did anything against Venom? Ask Juggernaut or Hulk. Was Spider-man trying to kill Captain America in the fight they had? nope. Captain takes his fights a lot more serious than Spidey does.

You still haven't answered, what would Cap-man do to Venom? venom's way more durable, has a healing factor enabling to heal everything Cap dishes out etc.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Spider-sense will be negated by the symbiote.

Ok fair enough.

Originally posted by Jyppe

Why would Captain-man move any faster than regual spider-man? Maybe his movement in a battle would be faster, because of his training, but the stats would still be same.

You said it his movement in battle would be faster. If venom has the same speed as Spiderman, Cap will be doging all his blows and punching Venom, the same way Cap took Beast to school.

Originally posted by Jyppe

When was the last time brute force did anything against Venom? Ask Juggernaut or Hulk.

What so Venom can shrug off blows from Hulk and Venom like their nothing?

Im pretty sure the Jury were able to hurt Venom eventhough they didnt win, therefore venom should not be taking punches from Juggernaut like their nothing.

Originally posted by Jyppe

Was Spider-man trying to kill Captain America in the fight they had? nope. Captain takes his fights a lot more serious than Spidey does.


Er was Cap trying to kill him. Are you telling me Cap cant behead Spiderman with his shield? Furthermore Spiderman was not holding back in terms of speed, if he tried to punch harder that would probably make his punches slower.

Originally posted by Jyppe

You still haven't answered, what would Cap-man do to Venom? venom's way more durable, has a healing factor enabling to heal everything Cap dishes out etc.

Well I have actually Cap would probably have no problems dodging Venom. I really dont see how Venom is going to withstands Caps punches when Cap at normal strength level has been able to stun people in class 50 range give him 15 strength and that makes him a beast.

Something tells me that people alot weaker than Juggernaut have hurt Venom.

PS. Your making it sound like venom can shrug off blows from Juggs and Hulk. First of all they still hurt and I think Hulk and Juggs beat him, Juggs stomped Venom.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its Brock. Please tell me how Brock is going to beat Cap-Spiderman?

Cap at normal strength level has knocked out Thunderball spark the **** out. Thunderball was class 10.

A dying Cap has made Giant Mans whole body go numb with one finger. Give Cap 15 ton strength what the **** is Brock gonna do.

Furthermore Spiderman is faster than Cap but Cap can punch Spiderman in the face all day. What the **** is Brcok gonna do, Brock is gonnaget his ass handed to him.
Yeah, and Venom before the upgrade was able to take shot in the chest of the anti-tank missile and explosion of dozen granades all at together without being hurt, dozen punches from Juggernaut and attacks from Hulk and kept fighting. And all before the upgrade. Now double all his states, since he merged with his own clone. Spider-man's punches aren't strong enough to hurt Venom at all. The question is - what the hell is Cap going to do to survive (let alone win)?

What can Venom do? Concidering that he's as fast as Spider-man, much stronger and MUCH more durable, how about this:
1) tear Cap's limbs apart
2) Break his neck
3) suffocate him
4) mind controle him
5) simply knock him out

As for Cap punching Spider-man, you mean that Civil War fight? Spider-man was thinking more than fighting, Cap is not exactly the guy whos nose Spider-man would break without a second thought.

Originally posted by King KAM
your an idiot and a fanboy. Cap without the np psyblocker

Sorry thats a typo thats supposed to be no pysblocker. I still think he can win. Cap even without spider sense can predict peoples moves give him spider sense and its midnighter time.

Cap with the alien martial art, eyes in the back of his head and enhanced durability mobility and power stays alive up to WonderMan.

Originally posted by golem370
With those remarks you are the idiot. you just said a man with no feats putting him past peak anything is gonna take a spidey powered cap...

Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry thats a typo thats supposed to be no pysblocker. I still think he can win. Cap even without spider sense can predict peoples moves give him spider sense and its midnighter time. like i said, spidey moves too fast for gorgon to react, its like you knowing right hook is coming, it doesnt mean you are getting out of the way, just that you know your about to see black for a while.

gorgon can predict moves if he wants, Cap at rogers speed was hard enough to read, now at spideys speed...hes rediculous

Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, and Venom before the upgrade was able to take shot in the chest of the anti-tank missile and explosion of dozen granades all at together without being hurt, dozen punches from Juggernaut and attacks from Hulk and kept fighting.

Bro I think you're blowing things out of proportion.

1. I thnk that was professor Hulk.
2. I think there were 2 fights with him and Juggs. The first fight Juggs only hit him once or twice. When Juggs laid into him he got stomped. I think that was a weakened Juggs as well.

Originally posted by Sam Z

And all before the upgrade. Now double all his states, since he merged with his own clone.

Er arent you blowing things out of proportion. Where does it say his stats got doubled at any rate I still think class 100 punches will still hurt. Its not like hes gonna stand still and take them.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Spider-man's punches aren't strong enough to hurt Venom at all. The question is - what the hell is Cap going to do to survive (let alone win)?

Er what part of a dying Cap made Giants mans whole body go numb WITH ONE FINGER and at normal strength levels knocked out Thunderball with one punch dont you understand? You increase Caps strength 15 times and hes gonna proper hit like the Hulk!(not brute strength of course). Hell Cap made one of Namors enemies lay flat on their back and see stars and thats WITHOUT his shield.

Originally posted by Sam Z

What can Venom do? Concidering that he's as fast as Spider-man,


Er arent you paying attention. Beast is about as fast as Cap...what happened. He got stomped!! If Venom is as fast as Cap now Cap will be punching him in the face all day and Venom wont land a finger on him.

Originally posted by Sam Z

much stronger


Caps being Koing stronger people for thousands of years.

Originally posted by Sam Z

and MUCH more durable, how about this:

hell Venom maybe be able to take punches from the Hulk...but a constant barrage....cos thats whats gonna happen. Venom trys to take Cap H2H...

punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch


Originally posted by Sam Z

1) tear Cap's limbs apart
2) Break his neck
3) suffocate him
4) mind controle him
5) simply knock him out

Look maybe Venom can get some wins with his webbing and tendrils but even then Cap can dodge Spidermans webbing and hes faster than Cap. If hes facing an opponent just as fast as him its gonna be easier.

With the tendrils Cap can keep his distance and use his shield as a long range weapon.

Originally posted by Sam Z

As for Cap punching Spider-man, you mean that Civil War fight? Spider-man was thinking more than fighting, Cap is not exactly the guy whos nose Spider-man would break without a second thought.

Bullocks! In their first fight Cap laid Spiderman flat on his back and Spiderman saw stars. Yeah it wasnt a proper fight but Spiderman was pissed when he tried to punch Cap, if Cap wanted to he could have beaten him up on the floor

A robot clone of Spiderman based on Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in h2h so it had to rsort to webbing.

And the strongest point.... Everytime Spiderman fights an MA expert they always get first blood and Spiderman has to resort to webbing. It could be argued that he is holding back in terms of power but not in terms of speed. Some MA experts if they wanted to kill Spiderman could still win the fight because they always get the first attacks and they could decide to go for a killer blow.

Its happened to many times with other MA experts, so stop making excuses.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro I think you're blowing things out of proportion.

1. I thnk that was professor Hulk.
2. I think there were 2 fights with him and Juggs. The first fight Juggs only hit him once or twice. When Juggs laid into him he got stomped. I think that was a weakened Juggs as well.
1. Not sure, he was green but wasn't an idiot. I'm not good with Hulk incarnations, so may be.
2. There were 3 fights actually. Juggernaut wasn't weakened and it was a classic Juggernaut. In the first fight he hit Venom dozen times and Brock actually kept cracking jokes. And he wasn't knocked uncouncious untill he got tossed into some toxins where he sank. In 2 further fights Juggs couldn't land a finger on Venom since the guy actually started to use his speed advantage.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Er arent you blowing things out of proportion. Where does it say his stats got doubled at any rate I still think class 100 punches will still hurt. Its not like hes gonna stand still and take them.
I'm not saying he will not feel class 100 punches, but it'll take a lot of them combined with may be a thunderclap to get close to knocking Venom out and a mean A LOT. And Cap can't generate class 100 punches not even with class 15 strength.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Er what part of a dying Cap made Giants mans whole body go numb WITH ONE FINGER and at normal strength levels knocked out Thunderball with one punch dont you understand? You increase Caps strength 15 times and hes gonna proper hit like the Hulk!(not brute strength of course). Hell Cap made one of Namors enemies lay flat on their back and see stars and thats WITHOUT his shield.
Cap can't hit like the Hulk (unlike some other guys I understand your point) but Caps punches are strong because of his perfect technique and knowledge of the pressure points. And it will not work with symbiote that absorbs all the blows nevermind how and where you hit it. Basically Venom wouldn't feel any difference between boosted-Cap's and Spider's punches.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Er arent you paying attention. Beast is about as fast as Cap...what happened. He got stomped!! If Venom is as fast as Cap now Cap will be punching him in the face all day and Venom wont land a finger on him. Scarlet Spider was as fast as Venom and had working spider sense, didn't stop brock from almost killing him with one move. Not to mention that Spider is more agile than Cap. Venom's tendrills move faster than speeding bullets (but unlike bullets can change directions), Cap can beat on Venom all he wants and with no effect, but he won't be able to stay out of Venom's reach for long and unlike Cap, all Venom needs is 1 or 2 good strikes to finish him.


Originally posted by Alfheim


Caps being Koing stronger people for thousands of years. Sorry, but it's a weak point. EVERYONE has KOed someone stronger than someone else at some point. What we know for a fact is that Venom can take any Cap's attacks, and once Venom grabs him it the end of a fight.


Originally posted by Alfheim

hell Venom maybe be able to take punches from the Hulk...but a constant barrage....cos thats whats gonna happen. Venom trys to take Cap H2H...

punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch
punch Constant barrage from Juggernaut >>>>>>>>>>>> Constand barrage from Cap even if you make him class 25 or 50.



Originally posted by Alfheim

Look maybe Venom can get some wins with his webbing and tendrils but even then Cap can dodge Spidermans webbing and hes faster than Cap. If hes facing an opponent just as fast as him its gonna be easier.
For now, I don't see Cap winning at all since it's basically Spider-man with Cap's experience and shield instead of webbing. And that's not gonna help.
Originally posted by Alfheim

With the tendrils Cap can keep his distance and use his shield as a long range weapon. He loses his shield once he tries that. Venom reflexes allow him to catch bullets after they were fired. Let alone shield.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Bullocks! In their first fight Cap laid Spiderman flat on his back and Spiderman saw stars. Yeah it wasnt a proper fight but Spiderman was pissed when he tried to punch Cap, if Cap wanted to he could have beaten him up on the floor

A robot clone of Spiderman based on Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in h2h so it had to rsort to webbing.

And the strongest point.... Everytime Spiderman fights an MA expert they always get first blood and Spiderman has to resort to webbing. It could be argued that he is holding back in terms of power but not in terms of speed. Some MA experts if they wanted to kill Spiderman could still win the fight because they always get the first attacks and they could decide to go for a killer blow.

Its happened to many times with other MA experts, so stop making excuses. If you read Spider-man books you know that Spider-man even when PISSED still holds his punches even when he fights SUPERvillains, and Spider-man himself admitted that because of that his attacks are slower than they would've been if he cut lose. Also keep in mind that Cap is not some villain but at some point is Peter's idol. There is no way in hell he'd fight Cap with everything he's got. And in the CW fight he was even doubting if he should FIGHT Cap or JOIN him instead, so... you know.

The speed difference wouldn't be that big. It's more like Wolverine's speed vs Captain Americas speed. They're very close to each other, allowing hits, but not an instant speed blitz from the opponent.



Well, he does have a healing factor rivalling that of Wolverine (well, maybe not current Wolverine's) He can certainly take at least a one punch from those big guys and recover fast. If he was pounded on for some time his healing factor would burn out and he'd die. Exactly what happened in the first fight with Juggernaut. Venom takes a huge beating and is saved by the ooze in the pit, he even refers in the next issue that the symbiote was stretched beyond it's limits etc.



Spider-man a nerd boy scout.
Captain America a Soldier (still a boy scout tough) Which one's going to hold back more?



What does strenght level have anything to do with durability? Besides, Like I stated before, Cap's punches are very effective because he hits weak points, and has 1337 skills. Those wont work though the symbiote.



Probably, but we didn't get to see the new Brock Venom in action before he gave the symbiote away.

Something tells me that a lot weaker people haven't been Koed from Captain America's punches...

How's Cap going to counter his invisibility btw?

Spidey + Cap = Splap

Originally posted by Sam Z
1. Not sure, he was green but wasn't an idiot. I'm not good with Hulk incarnations, so may be.

Yeah thats Professor Hulk the weakest incarnation of the Hulk, os its not that impressive.


Originally posted by Sam Z

2. There were 3 fights actually. Juggernaut wasn't weakened and it was a classic Juggernaut. In the first fight he hit Venom dozen times and Brock actually kept cracking jokes. And he wasn't knocked uncouncious untill he got tossed into some toxins where he sank. In 2 further fights Juggs couldn't land a finger on Venom since the guy actually started to use his speed advantage.

Bro that fight looks like PIS. Venom isnt even class 100 and hes sending Juggs flying with a backfist sounds like PIS to me.



Originally posted by Sam Z

I'm not saying he will not feel class 100 punches, but it'll take a lot of them combined with may be a thunderclap to get close to knocking Venom out and a mean A LOT. And Cap can't generate class 100 punches not even with class 15 strength.

Well considering that namor has been knocked to the ground with a kick from normal Cap, class 155 punches from Cap as far as im concerned will hurt like the juggernauts and they will be more frequent.


Originally posted by Sam Z

Cap can't hit like the Hulk (unlike some other guys I understand your point) but Caps punches are strong because of his perfect technique and knowledge of the pressure points. And it will not work with symbiote that absorbs all the blows nevermind how and where you hit it. Basically Venom wouldn't feel any difference between boosted-Cap's and Spider's punches.

Well it could be argued since he wont be using brute force it will work. For example the suit will be able to absorb large amounts of energy but not small amounts, for example im sure he could feel somebody tapping him on his back and Cap can use that much force to hurt somebody.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Scarlet Spider was as fast as Venom and had working spider sense, didn't stop brock from almost killing him with one move.

Hes not an MA expert it makes a big difference.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Not to mention that Spider is more agile than Cap.

Well cap is as fast as Spiderman now and more skilled.


Originally posted by Sam Z

Venom's tendrills move faster than speeding bullets (but unlike bullets can change directions),

Cap can dodge bullets after they have been fired and thats without him being as fast as Spiderman.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Cap can beat on Venom all he wants and with no effect, but he won't be able to stay out of Venom's reach for long and unlike Cap, all Venom needs is 1 or 2 good strikes to finish him.

The tendrils could be a problem, but CIS is on and I dont think he uses them straight away.


Originally posted by Sam Z

Sorry, but it's a weak point. EVERYONE has KOed someone stronger than someone else at some point. What we know for a fact is that Venom can take any Cap's attacks, and once Venom grabs him it the end of a fight.

No I dont think Venom will be taking Caps shot well, but it could be argued that Cap would probably be able to resist Venoms blows beter byt rolling with punches.



Originally posted by Sam Z

Constant barrage from Juggernaut >>>>>>>>>>>> Constand barrage from Cap even if you make him class 25 or 50.

Disagree his punches are going to hurt alot and there is going to be lots of them.



Originally posted by Sam Z

For now, I don't see Cap winning at all since it's basically Spider-man with Cap's experience and shield instead of webbing. And that's not gonna help.

That makes a big difference.

Originally posted by Sam Z

He loses his shield once he tries that. Venom reflexes allow him to catch bullets after they were fired. Let alone shield.

No bro since Cap can dodge bullets after they fired im guessing Cap can throw it faster than bullets. Furthermore Cap doesnt always thorw his sheild at people sometimes he thorws it athem to get them into a position he wants.

Originally posted by Sam Z

If you read Spider-man books you know that Spider-man even when PISSED still holds his punches even when he fights SUPERvillains, and Spider-man himself admitted that because of that his attacks are slower than they would've been if he cut lose. Also keep in mind that Cap is not some villain but at some point is Peter's idol. There is no way in hell he'd fight Cap with everything he's got. And in the CW fight he was even doubting if he should FIGHT Cap or JOIN him instead, so... you know.

Cap has beaten Spiderman villains who were not holding back, so that doesnt prove anything. Even an evil robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in h2h.

I dont think theres any proof that if he wasnt holding back he would be faster.

Originally posted by Jyppe
The speed difference wouldn't be that big. It's more like Wolverine's speed vs Captain Americas speed. They're very close to each other, allowing hits, but not an instant speed blitz from the opponent.

Yeah but Wolverine is an MA expert, Beast isnt thats why he got pawned. Venom is not an MA expert therefore hes going to get hit alot like Beast.


Originally posted by Jyppe

Well, he does have a healing factor rivalling that of Wolverine (well, maybe not current Wolverine's) He can certainly take at least a one punch from those big guys and recover fast. If he was pounded on for some time his healing factor would burn out and he'd die. Exactly what happened in the first fight with Juggernaut. Venom takes a huge beating and is saved by the ooze in the pit, he even refers in the next issue that the symbiote was stretched beyond it's limits etc.



and Cap is going to be pounding on him alot.

Originally posted by Jyppe

Spider-man a nerd boy scout.
Captain America a Soldier (still a boy scout tough) Which one's going to hold back more?

Whatever, point is Cap was holding back as well.




Originally posted by Jyppe

What does strenght level have anything to do with durability?


What so people in the class 10 strength range have same durabiltiy as class 100ers?




Originally posted by Jyppe

Besides, Like I stated before, Cap's punches are very effective because he hits weak points, and has 1337 skills. Those wont work though the symbiote.


I disagree because he wont be using brute force. Im sure the suit does not absorb all physical force eg im sure he can feel a touch. Thats all cap needs to do damage.


Originally posted by Jyppe

Probably, but we didn't get to see the new Brock Venom in action before he gave the symbiote away.

Something tells me that a lot weaker people haven't been Koed from Captain America's punches...

Dont see how that helps yourt argument.

Originally posted by Jyppe

How's Cap going to counter his invisibility btw?

Doesnt he become invisible when he is next to a surface? If thats the case easy. I dont see Venom being so fast that Cap cant see where he was before he did it...and even if thats the case all he needs to to do is get the **** out. For example if they were fighting in an alley and he did that, the logical thing to do is go to the rooftops or a more oepn space where Venom wont get him by suprise.

I assume you're talking about infinity crusade here, first of all Captain America was bloodlusted in the fight. He was trying to eliminate beast, unlike Beast who was holding back as Captain America used to be his team mate. Besides, Ape-Beast never really had any good showings against anyone.

And, Captain America probably knows all of Beast's moves anyways, he won't be able to predict Venom's attacks



Which will only get him killed. His hits wont really have any effect on Venom and which is when Venom will get his hits in. I don't see how Captain-man could deal any permanent damage through the symbiote AND so that the healing factor wont cope with it. It took MANY of Juggernaut's hits to nearly kill Venom (Common sense says he should have got Koed before nearly dying, but apparently his healing factor kept him concious or something)

You're implying that Venom wont get any hits in, I doubt it. He even lasts longer in a fight due to his healing factor.



don't go to the extremes. Take Luke Cage for example, he's not THAT strong, but his durability is great due to his metal skin. Another good example is venom, or any other symbiote dude.

Hell, if a guy is a p*ssy, (Creel's Crew...) He'll go down from pain alone, even people with heightened durability can feel pain, without any real harm being actually done, same with regural people.

Aaand, if someone's durability grows as much as their strenght (Seeing guys like Spider-man have 20 tons worth of strenght, but barely an enhanced durability) I doubt Creel's posse have as high durability as they have strenght. It's A LOT harder for a 15 tonner to Ko a 100 tonner than it is for 1 tonner to Ko a 15 tonner.



I don't see how pressure point attacks or such would work through the symbiote. You do know how thick it is? You do know that the symbiote resists depending on the force aplied to it (Ie, slows down bullets before they reach the host etc.) You do know that Venom is massive..



You said "Something tells me that people alot weaker than Juggernaut have hurt Venom." And yet yourself only use high examples concerning Captain America. He has failed to Ko Tony Stark with a once punch before..

They're called low showings and high showings..



I don't know how efficient it is, but normal people haven't been able to detect him at all. I think Sam Z has scans of Venom's invisibility.

How about Venom's webs? How about multiple tendrils? (Cap usually fights people with 4 limbs...)

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah thats Professor Hulk the weakest incarnation of the Hulk, os its not that impressive. I thought that Grey Hulk is the weakest. Also, you sure it's professor? Cause he wasn't dumb, but neither was that smart. He still was like "Hulk will smach the puny humans"...



Originally posted by Alfheim

Bro that fight looks like PIS. Venom isnt even class 100 and hes sending Juggs flying with a backfist sounds like PIS to me.
The fight is no PIS, Venom didn't stop Juggernaut's forward momentum, he simply sent him flying back when the guy was standing, he can send a FREAKING tank flying and Juggernaut weights less than that. Also that fight proves how durable Venom is.



Originally posted by Alfheim

Well considering that namor has been knocked to the ground with a kick from normal Cap, class 155 punches from Cap as far as im concerned will hurt like the juggernauts and they will be more frequent.
I don't get your math. How come it's class 155? It's still class 15 but with perfect technique and knowledge of the pressure points. Still not even close to Juggs or Hulk's punches.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Well it could be argued since he wont be using brute force it will work. For example the suit will be able to absorb large amounts of energy but not small amounts, for example im sure he could feel somebody tapping him on his back and Cap can use that much force to hurt somebody.
Sorry, I didn't get that part. You mean that well-placed attacks will hurt? If that's what you meant, then nope. Symbiote protects host from any kind of attacks. Cap might aim at nerves or weak spots or anything, but in the end, he'll still be beating that black goo, his attacks wont get to Brock and symbiote itself doesn't have weak spots or nerves.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Hes not an MA expert it makes a big difference.
Well cap is as fast as Spiderman now and more skilled.
That was not my point. Cap's experience when it comes to fighting is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider's. But when it comes to dodging Spider-man can do that as well as Cap even if you give him Spider sense and Spider speed. And still Scarlet Spider couldn't dodge him.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Cap can dodge bullets after they have been fired and thats without him being as fast as Spiderman. Yeah, at a distance and only dodge. Venom started moving only after the bullet was fired and he managed to CATCH it before it traveled 2 feets (the bullet was moving in direction away from Brock).

Originally posted by Alfheim


The tendrils could be a problem, but CIS is on and I dont think he uses them straight away.
It doesn't have to be tendrils, Venom can do this with his bare hands as well, like form an axe or knife of both hands, so not even shield will help. Also why wouldn't he use tendrils straight away?But even if he wouldn't it'll only mean that Cap will be able to hold his own longer, to the point where Venom will deside to use them.


Originally posted by Alfheim

No I dont think Venom will be taking Caps shot well, but it could be argued that Cap would probably be able to resist Venoms blows beter byt rolling with punches. Not if Venom camoufladges himself, also rolling with attacks would be VERY complicated if Venom formes knives of the symbiote.



Originally posted by Alfheim


Disagree his punches are going to hurt alot and there is going to be lots of them. I can only say that he'll feel Cap's punches, but that's about it. Even barrage of them wouldn't effect symbiote any better than Spider-man's (may be just a little better than Spider's) due to reasons I stated earlier.




Originally posted by Alfheim

That makes a big difference.
IMO webbing is more effective than shield when it comes to fighting symbiotes. So basically the only difference is experience.

Originally posted by Alfheim

No bro since Cap can dodge bullets after they fired im guessing Cap can throw it faster than bullets. Furthermore Cap doesnt always thorw his sheild at people sometimes he thorws it athem to get them into a position he wants. I doubt Cap can thow it that fast, cause it'll take him to wave his hand with the speed of bullet. Also, symbiote can see in ALL directions at once so tricking him in getting where Cap wants would be comlicated.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Cap has beaten Spiderman villains who were not holding back, so that doesnt prove anything. Even an evil robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in h2h. Venom is not just some Spider-man villain. The guy almost killed half of the sinister six just cause they laughed at him. And not all of Spider's enemies are as fast as him and at the same time MUCH stronger than him.
Originally posted by Alfheim

I dont think theres any proof that if he wasnt holding back he would be faster. Spider-man stated that himself couple of times, I think I can find some scans where it's stated if you like (at least I can try).