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The gist of the rule is basically that Davy Jones was doomed because his lover vowed to remain faithful, and she didn't.

If she HAD remained faithful for the ten year time period in which he was forced to remain at sea, then the curse would have been broken.

So I assume that if Will becomes captain of the Dutchman and Elizabeth vows to be faithful, then in ten years, Will will be free.

Now, don't think I am trying to be all, "It's Willabeth for sure", but it is something to think about now. Comments? Questions?

That makes sense.Anyway I think it's really a long time for lovers or a married couple to stay apart from each other.I still don't see,what happens when Will comes back?Will he be mortal after that?Other.He will be still the same age,while Elizabeth is going to be ten years older.I still don't like it very much.I'm a Sparrabether,but I don't say it just because of this.If Will wouldn't be Captin of the FD,and him and Elizabeth would marry,and Jack would be in some way happy,I wouldn't jump out of my skin for joy,but let's say that would satisfy me in some way.But the previous alternative IMO doesn't make happy either of them

so i take it that tia dalma cheated on davy with jack and THATS why davy also hates him so much????
Because technically, it would mean that jack is part of the reason for why his curse isnt broken???

Oooooo!!
so what if the spell doesnt break for will, either??
Anyone betting that jack is the reason for that one, aswell??? lmao!

^ i arrived with the same conclusion lol

Well, let's go with that, and say the film ends with Will finding out that Elizabeth hasn't been faithful to him.

Is that the kind of ending you'd want for At World's End?

hell, if it stops will and liz getting down and dirty then im up for anything

Seriously though, I was more or less joking with the last part.
But the first part i was actually being quite serious about...

actually, that's the ending i want...

i'm so bad.. sorry will.. lol...

and that was supposed to be 'i arrived at'..

hehehe..

i think we can safely say that by the end of the film, NO ONE gets the girl...not physically, anyway.

Will does in a way because he marries her, but he cant be with her.

Jack knows that she has feelings for him, and he knows that she knows how he feels about her...but he doesn't get her either...

I think ill be good with that answer, to be honest
And plus, i bet the writers have done it like that because they want fans to still be talking about it in years to come, going;

"No, it was Will she really loved"

"No, i'm telling you it was definately jack!"

"Will!"
"Jack!"
"The whelp!"
"Jack!"
"The eunich!"
"JACK!"

...and so on and so on

could be...


the whelp? the eunuch? now, why does Will have nicknames and not Jack?

do people respect Jack more than they do will lol?


maybe another cliffhanger for 4..

i think that will be the ending of the film. elizabeth waiting for will, and in the end (means after the 10 years) she awaits him with their child. it all makes sense.

Actually, no offense, i like T.Maria's idea better..

hope so too...


aww... guys, see ya tomorowz, it's 11.43 pm..

nightz..

yeah thanks for sharing, Surreal, because this clears up some major questions that I had concerning that subject. That simplifies things immensely and clears the way for the ending I have suspected for quite some time. And like T. Maria said, there will still be the slightest opening for Sparrabethers to continue in their ways, under the assumption that Elizabeth married and stayed faithful to Will to break the curse, and may have gone off with Jack at some point otherwise.

anyways, interesting info, and hooray that the movie comes soon!

I thought it was really interesting.

I think that the curse only is broken if the love is actually 'true'. As in they truely love that person. I don't think it would work if Elizabeth simply waited for Will out of duty, but she planned to ditch him the moment he was free.

But yeah...'tis a shame some people don't give a hoot about plot and characters as long as J/E end up together. Wouldn't it be nice if all three of the main characters could be happy?

Where does it ever imply that Jack is in love with Elizabeth? He desires her, maybe wants her, but I'm not entirely sure he's in LOVE with her to the point that he'd die without her.

Jack will have his freedom. He loves that, I think, above all else; even the Pearl. If he doesn't have the Pearl, he'll have fun chasing her down, and I have this image in my head of Barbossa and Jack spending a few years chasing each other back and forth across the seas, constantly challenging each other as each one gets the Pearl.

Then I think they'd retire and hang out at Tortuga, looking at the pretty ladies and drinking rum, telling stories to the new generations of pirates.

Character development does not always mean that characters morph and change into something new. Often times it means that characters go through a few changes, and come to the conclusion that what they had originally is what they really want.

There's nothing wrong with that. They take the lessons that they've learned, and they apply them to their new lives.

In Jack's case, he's learned that the Pearl is just a ship, and he can relax over not having her. He didn't sell his soul for her, he's not in any more danger (other than the usual stuff for being a pirate), and he can sort of relax for the first time in what...thirteen years? Dude, the man needs a vacation, not a relationship.

Elizabeth will have learned that sometimes, yes, you have to communicate with the person you love, that you can't just take for granted that they will always be there for you.

Killing Jack, losing her father, probably losing James, and losing Will for ten years will have taught her that. She has learned to value people that she cares for, and that her decisions will affect everyone around her.

That's not a bad lesson to learn.

Will will have learned that sometimes doing a stupid thing is a really good thing, and sometimes it's a really bad thing. He will find his value as a person, finally, by rescuing lost souls, freeing those whom DJ has held captive for so long, and keeping his hope and faith in Elizabeth.

After nearly losing each other in the first film because of Barbossa, and then nearly losing each other in DMC because of DJ and Elizabeth's bad decision, to nearly losing each other again because of Will's bad decision and the curse, it would be lovely for Will and Elizabeth to finally be together.

Fighting for what you love, even if it's difficult, even if it's painful, even against insurmountable odds...I can think of very few things that give a more powerful message. Maybe it could be more feminist friendly, or more minority friendly, or any other number of social or political issues could have been covered, but I truly believe that people need to be reminded that the only things worth having in this world are the things you have to fight for.

Underlying all of this is the message for redemption and hope that no matter how far you fall, if you are willing to work at it, you CAN better yourself.

Beyond all of this, though, and moving into more shallow realms, is that this movie is beautiful, from the actors to the music to the scenery. It is going to be a phenominal film.

This film is so much more than J/E or W/E...why not give it a try before complaining that this isn't what you want. Just...give it a chance, and ENJOY the entire film experience. If we all do that, I don't think we'll be disappointed in what happens.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
I thought it was really interesting.

I think that the curse only is broken if the love is actually 'true'. As in they truely love that person. I don't think it would work if Elizabeth simply waited for Will out of duty, but she planned to ditch him the moment he was free.

But yeah...'tis a shame some people don't give a hoot about plot and characters as long as J/E end up together. Wouldn't it be nice if all three of the main characters could be happy?

Plot and characters? Hmm... tis also a shame that some people don't give a hoot about the plot of DMC *cough* the writers *cough* as long as W/E end up together, but who's bitter?

It WOULD be nice if all three main characters could be happy. But for that to happen, they would have had to keep another female character in the trilogy who could pull a foil for Jack, ending up with a Disney "everyone gets someone" ending, which would have been nice, but cliche.
Instead, it seems they went with the slightly more angsty real life feel of someone ending up alone, which is perhaps more like real life, but totally depressing in a lot of respects. haha. oh gee.

as to the curse... who can judge what true love is? seriously, i'd say it should be more about commitment/duty (whatever you want to call it) because who can judge what true love is? and does true love always mean you have no feelings for anyone else? i dont think so. but i dont think Liz would ditch him or anything. she's going to make a choice and stick with it.

kate, i wouldnt worry about anything....

We can always do our AWE revised when the script turns up online....do our own ending???

Ah, like the good old days of DMC and COTBP
Oh, the fun we had!

It may not mean anything to anyone, but I think that ending is extremely sexist, and a total waste of Lizzie's character development. That's even worse than her giving into society and marrying Norrington in BP.

Two, how is *that* kick-ass? That's the most predictable thing that could have happened IMO. Why bother making sequels?

More cheese.....good grief.

and no, the ending does not have to revolve around Sparrabeth to be good and kick ass, but good lord, if it has to be W/E, they couldn't have done better than this trife?

But hey, I'm not bitter..


*sighs* More "true love" crap conquers all? Gag me. I got over that illusion when I was 5.

GASP! I have a question! Someone help me with this one. Okay, the captain of the Flying Dutchman is supposed to originally have been a positive position, right? He/she went around the seas saving those who needed help and it wasn't until Davy went nuts that the Flying Dutchman started being feared. Okay, so I believe a lot of people have said that the ship needs a captain. In other words, someone has to take Davy's place.
So, if Will is freed from that position through Liz's love and faithfulness (which I'm not saying will or will not happen) then who takes Will's place? What happens to the Dutchman? Does he appoint someone? Will he have a first mate? Will it dissolve into mist? Will he just be on the ship from 9 to 5 and have evenings and weekends to himself and just be on call like the Coast Guard? Enlighten me!

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Where does it ever imply that Jack is in love with Elizabeth? He desires her, maybe wants her, but I'm not entirely sure he's in LOVE with her to the point that he'd die without her.

Jack will have his freedom. He loves that, I think, above all else; even the Pearl. If he doesn't have the Pearl, he'll have fun chasing her down, and I have this image in my head of Barbossa and Jack spending a few years chasing each other back and forth across the seas, constantly challenging each other as each one gets the Pearl.

Then I think they'd retire and hang out at Tortuga, looking at the pretty ladies and drinking rum, telling stories to the new generations of pirates.

Character development does not always mean that characters morph and change into something new. Often times it means that characters go through a few changes, and come to the conclusion that what they had originally is what they really want.

There's nothing wrong with that. They take the lessons that they've learned, and they apply them to their new lives.

In Jack's case, he's learned that the Pearl is just a ship, and he can relax over not having her. He didn't sell his soul for her, he's not in any more danger (other than the usual stuff for being a pirate), and he can sort of relax for the first time in what...thirteen years? Dude, the man needs a vacation, not a relationship.

Elizabeth will have learned that sometimes, yes, you have to communicate with the person you love, that you can't just take for granted that they will always be there for you.

Killing Jack, losing her father, probably losing James, and losing Will for ten years will have taught her that. She has learned to value people that she cares for, and that her decisions will affect everyone around her.

That's not a bad lesson to learn.

Will will have learned that sometimes doing a stupid thing is a really good thing, and sometimes it's a really bad thing. He will find his value as a person, finally, by rescuing lost souls, freeing those whom DJ has held captive for so long, and keeping his hope and faith in Elizabeth.

After nearly losing each other in the first film because of Barbossa, and then nearly losing each other in DMC because of DJ and Elizabeth's bad decision, to nearly losing each other again because of Will's bad decision and the curse, it would be lovely for Will and Elizabeth to finally be together.

Fighting for what you love, even if it's difficult, even if it's painful, even against insurmountable odds...I can think of very few things that give a more powerful message. Maybe it could be more feminist friendly, or more minority friendly, or any other number of social or political issues could have been covered, but I truly believe that people need to be reminded that the only things worth having in this world are the things you have to fight for.

Underlying all of this is the message for redemption and hope that no matter how far you fall, if you are willing to work at it, you CAN better yourself.

Beyond all of this, though, and moving into more shallow realms, is that this movie is beautiful, from the actors to the music to the scenery. It is going to be a phenominal film.

This film is so much more than J/E or W/E...why not give it a try before complaining that this isn't what you want. Just...give it a chance, and ENJOY the entire film experience. If we all do that, I don't think we'll be disappointed in what happens.

well....sorry but I don't find anything "beautiful" and "lovely" about Will and Elziabeth..but that's just me...and I find it appalling that Liz after everything she's been through..spends 10 years waiting on an island for will to return...ugghhh...if that's how it ends, then I'm sorry but I will be disappointed in the trilogy...I'd rather liz sail off on her own...

and Surreal...sorry but everything for me tells me Jack is in love with Elizabeth....
And Jack doesn't want freedom most...because his compass couldn't lead him to freedom...it led him to Elizabeth, the Pearl and striaght into the Kracken's mouth and into Davy's locker....Jack's compass never once pointed to that dag-blasted chest, or that key....which in turn would lead jack to freedom which he loves above all things..funny how one little compass can mess things up royally...

and I know you always say it's more that W/E and J/e...but even that dag-blasted producers, writers, directors say its about pirates and romance...

but besides all that, i've said this before and i'll say it again...if not for what happened between jack and liz in DMC i wouldn't still be heartaching over this trilogy..i'd just be looking forward to seeing johnny as jack...

and jack spending years chasing after the Pearl and hanging out with Strumpets is not exactly what I envisioned for Jack Sparrow..oh well...

For the first time in the history of being in this forum I respectfully disagree lovethemtigers...but only 50%! ok ok! hear me out.

I get both your POVs. lovethemtigers I more than anyone else want Jack to be happy. That's all I really want. There's a little bit of me who doesn't want anything else! Sparrabeth is my drug of choice...it's what I'm living on! It's what burns me to the soal but then...

I'm sure Surreal feels the same about Norribeth and she's learned to see things in a bigger frame. Good for u! I'll never be able to do that but I agree that for the general public what happens in AWE makes WE satisfying indeed. For the general public they will be HOT in this movie and hey! I admit that they will be but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I fell for the complicated simplicity of JE.

They didn't need anything else to make them ineteresting! Just a wicked twist in the plot. but it was like in that moment this whole movie came down to the two of them just in that moment where they kissed and...

Apologies! My JE thoughts took over again. The point is: My heart is totally with u lovethemtigers but I see Surreal's point here.

I agree. I WANT all three characters happy and that wouldn't be possible with a JE ending. Jack has more of a chance being happy alone than Will.


Don't get me wrong! Will is very strong. In some terms stronger than Jack and Elizabeth BUT without lizzie he could NEVER be happy! He's been in love with this girl since he's been a kid and for people who aren't THAT deep into the movie they can make WE totally acceptable.

I personally still want my Sparrabeth and so do the people *cough* teen choice*cough* but hey! The bigger picture is that the whole pirate series are just...exquisite and beautiful. The plot is deliciousely complicated and the characters? Need I say how complex EACH of them has become?

Quick post before I go collapse for a few hours...


Luda How is the ending sexist? Because Elizabeth would be seperated from Will? It's not as if Will is going to sailing the seven seas, saving lots of beautiful young women and having sex with them, while drinking rum with his buddies and doing other things that you would associate with a lousy husband.

He's going to be alone too, and if you really want to think about it in terms of difficulty, which gender typically has a more difficult time controlling their ah...urges? That's ten years Will is going to have to wait.

Wait...maybe the ending IS sexist.


Willo I have no idea what happens to the Dutchman if/when Will is freed. I assume Tia will find a new champion. I can think of a lovely Naval officer whom she could bring back to take over the job.


Lovethemtigers I understand we'll never agree on this issue, but sometimes foreshadowing is not entirely understood until the very end. Based on the clues that we have, I can see where they were going with a lot of the subtext that people assumed was for J/E.

At least try to enjoy Pirates, right? That's the real reason we're all here on this forum, right? Because we love the movies.


Tee_pirategirl I'm glad you can at least see my point of view. I think by the end of the film we'll all be happy to some degree, even if it's not quite what we expected.

I do understand the disappointment J/E shippers must be feeling though, because my favorite character is going to die, which is thoroughly depressing for me. *sighs* Maybe they'll surprise me by bringing him back, but I ain't holding my breath for it. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? My Norrie. *sniffle*

There's one thing I don't understand (there are more,but let's discuss this one)Suppose the curse will be over after ten What years.Will and Elizabeth meet.What happens to Will's immortality?Or will Elizabeth be Immortal too?Do explain to me please if someone understands thisT

i think none of them will be immortal anymore then....

yeah, i think Djinn is right.

If the curse is broken after 10 years (because liz is faithful while will is away) then neither of them are immortal, and are finally both mortal and can live 'happily ever after' ...

Or not...

*crosses fingers* lol

Nah, i dunno i think im just getting to the point where im sort of seeing the bigger picture.

BUT i know that liz and jack HAVE to have a conversation at some point in the film, and they HAVE to address their feelings

okay...i apologize to all of you for wanting a j/e ending....and I'm sorry Surreal that I can't seem to see your point of view...I'm just so into sparrabeth i can't see w/e...but that's just me...it's my problem. I just became obsessed with the notion of j/e becuase for me they have more chemistry and i was into the forbidden love. And yes, I do love the pirate movies...but i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that i wouldnt have got hooked on this if it weren't for j/e....but again, that is my problem i'll have to overcome when it ends w/e...i just wanted jack and elizabeth to be together and as i've said many times...ever since the very first time i saw this little old pirate movie back in 2003.

Again, I 'm sorry if i offend people with my diehard Spararbethness....

tigers,

how could you offend people?????
YOU of all people, because you know you are so well loved!!!!!

Im a die hard sparrabether, and i would LOVE them to end together! But if they dont, then i want a resolution to their feelings towards eachother.

"It would never have worked between us"
"keep telling yourself that, darling"

^^^^^ indicates a previous conversation, because Elizabeth has called their feelings 'IT', which means that 'IT' is apparent to both of them, and they both realise this

And i am in absolutely no doubt that this conversation is not the last between the two.

okay...i need help i'm feeling down and just posted a sad post on sparrabeth thread..i'm so sorry i need to stay off of here....don't be mad at me...i just wanted it to j/e sooo bad...and I know when it's all over and done with i' will be happy about it all.....Just happy to see johnny as jack again.....

i'm just going through that stage when a relationship ends...first you have sadness, then comes understanding...and acceptance...i'm in the sadness part right now...

gosh, i should stay off of here.....just yesterday i was 99.9% sure we were getting a j/e ending...now i'm

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Where does it ever imply that Jack is in love with Elizabeth? He desires her, maybe wants her, but I'm not entirely sure he's in LOVE with her to the point that he'd die without her.

Jack will have his freedom. He loves that, I think, above all else; even the Pearl. If he doesn't have the Pearl, he'll have fun chasing her down, and I have this image in my head of Barbossa and Jack spending a few years chasing each other back and forth across the seas, constantly challenging each other as each one gets the Pearl.

Then I think they'd retire and hang out at Tortuga, looking at the pretty ladies and drinking rum, telling stories to the new generations of pirates.

Character development does not always mean that characters morph and change into something new. Often times it means that characters go through a few changes, and come to the conclusion that what they had originally is what they really want.

There's nothing wrong with that. They take the lessons that they've learned, and they apply them to their new lives.

In Jack's case, he's learned that the Pearl is just a ship, and he can relax over not having her. He didn't sell his soul for her, he's not in any more danger (other than the usual stuff for being a pirate), and he can sort of relax for the first time in what...thirteen years? Dude, the man needs a vacation, not a relationship.

Elizabeth will have learned that sometimes, yes, you have to communicate with the person you love, that you can't just take for granted that they will always be there for you.

Killing Jack, losing her father, probably losing James, and losing Will for ten years will have taught her that. She has learned to value people that she cares for, and that her decisions will affect everyone around her.

That's not a bad lesson to learn.

Will will have learned that sometimes doing a stupid thing is a really good thing, and sometimes it's a really bad thing. He will find his value as a person, finally, by rescuing lost souls, freeing those whom DJ has held captive for so long, and keeping his hope and faith in Elizabeth.

After nearly losing each other in the first film because of Barbossa, and then nearly losing each other in DMC because of DJ and Elizabeth's bad decision, to nearly losing each other again because of Will's bad decision and the curse, it would be lovely for Will and Elizabeth to finally be together.

Fighting for what you love, even if it's difficult, even if it's painful, even against insurmountable odds...I can think of very few things that give a more powerful message. Maybe it could be more feminist friendly, or more minority friendly, or any other number of social or political issues could have been covered, but I truly believe that people need to be reminded that the only things worth having in this world are the things you have to fight for.

Underlying all of this is the message for redemption and hope that no matter how far you fall, if you are willing to work at it, you CAN better yourself.

Beyond all of this, though, and moving into more shallow realms, is that this movie is beautiful, from the actors to the music to the scenery. It is going to be a phenominal film.

This film is so much more than J/E or W/E...why not give it a try before complaining that this isn't what you want. Just...give it a chance, and ENJOY the entire film experience. If we all do that, I don't think we'll be disappointed in what happens.

okay..i'll wave the white flag Surreal...perhaps you were right all along...when i saw things as j/e , it was really something else....

the movie is beautiful and the scenery is great...and jack appears to be better than ever...so all is great in the pirates world....and you are right, i guess will and elizabeth will overcome all these obstacles to find long and lasting love.....i'm really, really trying to feel this in my heart...but it's very difficult, i'm sorry

i'm sooo on a rollercoaster ride....i'm so mad at myself for being pessimistic today...when yesterday i was full of optimism..what is wrong with me....this movie is driving me crazy...

lovethemtigers, what did I tell you? Read our fic and enjoy some fun J/E moments. You will find it a moving, wonderful story. I promise you. As for going down with a ship, I've been there. In fact, I was on an imaginary ship in the Phantom of the Opera universe. The two characters I wanted together never even have a scene together. So I can understand.

But there is a beautiful thing called imagination. There is another beautiful thing called optimism. I know I've compared Jack and Liz to Rhett and Scarlett so much it's made Mina sick of me, but listen. Scarlett and Rhett are not a couple at the end of the book/movie. It's over between them and he leaves her. Their relationship is as final as Jack and Liz's would be if she married Will. But if you've seen the movie or read the book, you are left with this feeling that Scarlett is going to win him back. She can do just about anything, and now that she realizes what a catch Rhett was, she's going to give it her all to be with him. And Rhett being Rhett will always love Scarlett and it wouldn't take much to have him fall for her all over again.

So let's just assume the worst and say Liz waits on this island for Will and she's faithful and 10 years later, his immortality ends and everything is back to normal for them. Do you really think Jack will be out of their lives? They are a trio and their fates are linked and co-dependent on each other. Jack will not be far off since the odds are, the last scene will be featuring him.

So what is inevitable when Jack, Will, and Liz get together? All hell breaks loose! These crazy adventures pit them against impossible odds and each must use his/her strengths to survive and save the others. Anything can happen in their futures, which means the idea of Jack and Liz eventually being together is not an impossibility.

You're too attached to the ship to jump overboard. Stay on it with me and just love it for what it is.

oh, i'm not jumping ship...i could never do that.....i'm too obsessed with j/e...in fact a little too much...cuz with me it's all or nothing..but i'm trying to be patient....i know about imagination..beleive me..i've played out how this could go over and over and over for the past 10 months....and no matter how i do it...it ends j/e in some way....

Tigers! Don't be sad! I didn't mean it like that...personally I'm so with u.
I might have LOVED the first movie for it's great story and Johnny's beautiful portrayl of Captain Jack but even than that island scene was what hooked me! And than I got DMC and I was HOOKED.

The point is even if it doesn't end JE I'll still want it. Still read fics about it and watch vids. I'll still pick out songs and think it's THEIR songs and I'll still play that kiss over and over and over...and I'll still drool over whatever moment they have together in AWE.

But I've also accepted that we probably won't have a full JE ending...

Willo I totally compare JE to Scarlett and Rhett! and I think that we're sorta gonna get a "Gone With The Wind" style ending when it comes to the romance part. We're not gonna have JE and still we're not going to NOT have it.

they're gonna give us room to use our imagination...that's a given.

lovethemtigers! don't worry! in Jack's words :u won't be disappointed.

And if all else fails as u said yourself we'll still have Johnny as Jack.

i hear what you are saying....but fanfics, imagination and everything that's all fine and dandy...but i still wanted it to be on the big screen...i wanted to see it played out;; but that's life, it's just a movie afterall..i keep telling myself that, darlings...

i know i'm trusting johnny/jack "i promise, you won't be disappointed"

Trust Jack. He usually knows what he's doing.