Psylocke vs. Emma Frost

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Akuki
Psylocke vs. Emma Frost

guy222
Originally posted by Akuki
Psylocke vs. Emma Frost

where are they fighting...danger room?

Akuki
Originally posted by guy222
where are they fighting...danger room?
To make it simple sure.

Charlotte DeBel
What version of Psylocke since it's important? Current Psylocke is immune to TP and can easily toy with Emma throwing her around like ragdoll with her TK... If her TK is THAT uber that it rivals Phoenix's, then she can just disassemble poor Emma's body on molecular level.

Current Psylocke either wins 10/10 or stalemate (depends on whether or not she can affect things on molecular level)
Classic one loses to Emma like 6-7\10

Akuki
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
What version of Psylocke since it's important? Current Psylocke is immune to TP and can easily toy with Emma throwing her around like ragdoll with her TK... If her TK is THAT uber that it rivals Phoenix's, then she can just disassemble poor Emma's body on molecular level.

Current Psylocke either wins 10/10 or stalemate (depends on whether or not she can affect things on molecular level)
Classic one loses to Emma like 6-7\10
to specify, It's classic Psylocke without the protection from her brother, but with the crimson powers, vs. Emma frost who has her Crystal mutation and telepathy.

ExodusCloak
Current Psylocke wins 10/10(Literal telepathic immunity)...Classic Psylocke loses by a very, very large margin even with the Crimson Dawn she was never close to Emmas tier as a telepath. Before anyone brings up the Shadow King incident she got totally annihilated by him and she only beat him through his CIS and a big plot device.

guy222
Originally posted by Akuki
to specify, It's classic Psylocke without the protection from her brother, but with the crimson powers, vs. Emma frost who has her Crystal mutation and telepathy.

Jaime Braddock is quite powerful

Psylocke wins

What If...
Originally posted by Akuki
to specify, It's classic Psylocke without the protection from her brother, but with the crimson powers, vs. Emma frost who has her Crystal mutation and telepathy.

'Crimson Dawn' Psylocke was still considered a high tier telepath. Rather she rivaled Emma is debatable, but she still has the physic knife and far greater h2h skills at her disposal.

Not to mention her teleportation.

I'd have to give the majority to Psylocke.

Charlotte DeBel
Well, Emma was proved to be immune to TP in her diamond form...Psychic knife- a blade of raw psionic energy. A BLADE... while Emma can use that raw energy as projectiles (see her respect thread). Skilled gunfighter beats skilled person with knife, and Psylocke is lower in terms of telepahic power than Emma...

Phoenix_Avatar9
can psylocke psychoblast in this battle?

What If...
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Well, Emma was proved to be immune to TP in her diamond form...Psychic knife- a blade of raw psionic energy. A BLADE... while Emma can use that raw energy as projectiles (see her respect thread). Skilled gunfighter beats skilled person with knife, and Psylocke is lower in terms of telepahic power than Emma...

If Emma went diamond form, it would only worsen the situation for her.

While it's called a blade...it's not actually a blade, like you said...it's composed of raw energy. It doesn't actually "cut" humans, it frys their nervous system.
Psylocke has disabled MUCH more powerful minds than Emma's.

Really, it comes down to one psychic blade to the face, for the win.

Yes, Psylocke as Crimson Dawn wasn't as powerful of a telepath, but she's still to the point where Emma couldn't just mind fry her.

xmarksthespot
Psylocke's psychic knife would put Emma down for the count... but she'd have to get to her first. It depends on the distance between them.

She'd have to be fairly close. In the Danger Room, which is relatively well lit from all angles iirc, teleporting through shadows wouldn't be an option.

I see the battle ending up on the Astral Plane, where Emma's finesse would garner her the majority.

Jebus reborn
Originally posted by What If...
Psylocke has disabled MUCH more powerful minds than Emma's.
Jaime Braddock?

Charlotte DeBel
I know that the "blade" is made of raw psionic energy. I emphasise the word "blade" just for the sake of Emma using raw psionic energy as projectiles...The same energy, different uses.
And the physical effect of such "psionic lightning bolt" is devastating....not only she stunned her opponents with it, she even damaged building with it in her fight with Phoenix.

Anyways, Emma isn't stupid when it comes to fight. Aside from rather fantastic variants like " "hacking" Psylocke's mind for her MA skills and fight her hand to hand" which is rather unlikely to happen, the best variant would be to drag Elizabeth to the astral plane and deal with her there.

Charlotte DeBel
Though Emma wins that fight not by absolute majority, but like 7-8/10. 3 or 2 victories is given to Psylocke skills and her chance to protect her mind from Emma's TP, though it would require her a great concentration so it's less likely than the victory for Emma.

ExodusCloak
Since it's a battle between telepaths the fight will end up on the Astral Plane making any non-telepathic powers redundant. And Emmes would take the vast majority there.

As for Psylockes Psi-Blade working on Emma's Diamond Form...well it depends.

Emma doesn't eat or drink or fatigue in Diamond Form certain metabolic reaction don't need to occur. Emma's mind in Diamond Form is prismed. And her nervous system along with her blood is made out of Diamond.(In some versions of her Diamond Form she has no Diamond Blood.) Emma doesn't feel anything in Diamond Form either. So with all that in mind chances of Psylockes Blade actually working is null since:

1.) Her mind will act like a prism towards the psionic energy. Which wouldn't allow it to reach her nervous system.(That's if she has one/has one that works, seeing how her Telepathy is disabled in that form and she doesn't feel anything in that form)
2.) And if it did reach her nervous system and her nervous system works. Then she'd still be uneffected. Since her nervous system is made of Diamond it won't get fried. The energy would just get dispersed light in a prism.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1525/uncannyxmen32819mb6.th.jpg

What If...
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Since it's a battle between telepaths the fight will end up on the Astral Plane making any non-telepathic powers redundant. And Emmes would take the vast majority there.

As for Psylockes Psi-Blade working on Emma's Diamond Form...well it depends.

Emma doesn't eat or drink or fatigue in Diamond Form certain metabolic reaction don't need to occur. Emma's mind in Diamond Form is prismed. And her nervous system along with her blood is made out of Diamond.(In some versions of her Diamond Form she has no Diamond Blood.) Emma doesn't feel anything in Diamond Form either. So with all that in mind chances of Psylockes Blade actually working is null since:

1.) Her mind will act like a prism towards the psionic energy. Which wouldn't allow it to reach her nervous system.(That's if she has one/has one that works, seeing how her Telepathy is disabled in that form and she doesn't feel anything in that form)
2.) And if it did reach her nervous system and her nervous system works. Then she'd still be uneffected. Since her nervous system is made of Diamond it won't get fried. The energy would just get dispersed light in a prism.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1525/uncannyxmen32819mb6.th.jpg

confused

In any case, the blade can alter from "the totality of her psi energy disrupting the nervous system" to a direct assault on the mind, or even a combination of both.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5251/xmen20catchesjeanoffguaty6.th.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9697/xmen20catchesjeanoffguaxc9.th.jpg


I'm not sure, is Emma immune to psychic attacks in her diamond form?

Not to mention her pre-cog, but I'm indifferent - telepathic battles always confuse me.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Jaime Braddock?
Jaime Braddock, Jean Grey, Magneto, The Forsaken, etc.

Charlotte DeBel
Emma is immune to psychic attacks when she's diamond. Her nervous system is completelty altered in that state. Look at her respect thread.

What If...
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Emma is immune to psychic attacks when she's diamond. Her nervous system is completelty altered in that state. Look at her respect thread.

erm

Respect thread says she has the H2H skills of a 10 year old.
Assuming she goes diamond form, with durability and strength to her advantage, she still won't be in proximity of Psylocke to do any damage due to a speed difference.

Still don't see this going anywhere.

llagrok
Originally posted by What If...
erm

Respect thread says she has the H2H skills of a 10 year old.
Assuming she goes diamond form, with durability and strength to her advantage, she still won't be in proximity of Psylocke to do any damage due to a speed difference.

Still don't see this going anywhere.

Emma's a very skilled hand to hand combatant.

What If...
Not really.

Even if they were decent, it wouldn't matter to someone who has perfect body and mind unison.

Charlotte DeBel
Well, her fight with Sage is "hand-to-hand skills of 10 years old"? Probably very skilled 10 years old.
On astral plane, Psylocke is pwned 9-10/10
On physical plane of realm, it's stalemate.

What If...
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Well, her fight with Sage is "hand-to-hand skills of 10 years old"? Probably very skilled 10 years old.
On astral plane, Psylocke is pwned 9-10/10
On physical plane of realm, it's stalemate.

Nah.

As a 'corporeal form', Psylocke's psycho-blasts are no weaker than Emma's psibolts, possibly stronger, and still she hasn't done anything to make me think Emma is leagues ahead of Psylocke.

On the astral plan, while certain people would think the nexus crystal is PSI - it still doesn't demean the fact that the whole thing was created by Psylocke's immensely powerful attack disabling every psi mind in the world - including Emma.

Not to mention that the crimson dawn and precog give her an extra boost on the astral plane.

Charlotte DeBel
Sometimes I wish Emma becomes MarySue character for some writer...just like Psylocke or Storm for Claremont.

But it's unnesessary to gain popularity and flashy feats at THAT cost.

No PSI- it stands for psionic, but PIS- plot induced stupidity. Psi war was just a random crisis created by random tool...Psylocke isn't better than Nate Grey, for example...so it was circumstances that created the effect, and not the OVERWHELMING PSYLOCKE's POWER that was able to seal astral plane for some time. Any desent telepath in those circumstances could replicate the feat. It was just Psylocke's time to shine.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by What If...
confused

I'm not sure, is Emma immune to psychic attacks in her diamond form?

Not to mention her pre-cog, but I'm indifferent - telepathic battles always confuse me.

Yeah her Diamond Form makes her immune to psychic attacks. Nothing gets in or out.

This is from the Warsong Mini:
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenphoenixwarsong3014hr6.jpg

From New X-Men #126 Cassie can't read Emma's mind because it's prismed.
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/174/newxmen12626zc0.th.jpghttp://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7759/newxmen12627dn5.th.jpg

Funny enough Emma and the Cuckoos are Pre-cogs as well.

In Enemy of the State arc they did this:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9260/wolverinevol323image14gc6.th.jpghttp://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8431/wolverinevol323image15ml8.th.jpg

ExodusCloak
And then in Wolverine Origins #4/#5 she did this:

There's 4 pages of a Wolverine Flashback with Sabertooth missing here and 16 pages of Capt vs Wolverine + Their Flashback missing..I didn't think it was relevant:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8931/wolverineorigins04page0dt6.th.jpghttp://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3298/wolverineorigins04page0ud9.th.jpghttp://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8830/wolverineorigins04page0sl3.th.jpghttp://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3030/wolverineorigins04page0ef2.th.jpghttp://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1660/wolverineorigins04page0zf8.th.jpghttp://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3636/wolverineorigins04page0wq2.th.jpghttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5726/wolverineorigins04page2if5.th.jpg
Continued Below

ExodusCloak
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/8425/wolverineorigins005000yh8.th.jpghttp://img488.imageshack.us/img488/2938/wolverineorigins005006uu6.th.jpghttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7258/wolverineorigins005007vy8.th.jpghttp://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7375/wolverineorigins005008qz0.th.jpghttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7489/wolverineorigins005009ue3.th.jpghttp://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7426/wolverineorigins005010og0.th.jpghttp://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9748/wolverineorigins005011ra8.th.jpg

ExodusCloak
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3287/wolverineorigins005012wl8.th.jpghttp://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4032/wolverineorigins005013tv9.th.jpghttp://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7406/wolverineorigins005014ho4.th.jpghttp://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1033/wolverineorigins005019cq6.th.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2743/wolverineorigins005020kf2.th.jpghttp://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7241/wolverineorigins005021bj1.th.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9346/wolverineorigins005022gy7.th.jpghttp://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3429/wolverineorigins005023jz5.th.jpg

Plus IRRC She apparently gives Pre-cog/Clairvoyant classes. I'll have to dig for that reference...it's either in New X-Men Academy X or AXM.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by What If...
Nah.

As a 'corporeal form', Psylocke's psycho-blasts are no weaker than Emma's psibolts, possibly stronger, and still she hasn't done anything to make me think Emma is leagues ahead of Psylocke.

On the astral plan, while certain people would think the nexus crystal is PSI - it still doesn't demean the fact that the whole thing was created by Psylocke's immensely powerful attack disabling every psi mind in the world - including Emma.

Not to mention that the crimson dawn and precog give her an extra boost on the astral plane.

Emma did bring down a building with a Psi-Bolt.
http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncanny20xmen2019800320on7.jpg

Here check it out, the whole thing wasn't created by Psylocke. The Shadow King set up a trap which when ignited by Psylocke caused a domino/cascade effect. The One thought that triggered it became millions of thoughts and that blocked off every other telepath from the Astral Plane. So what she did was basically get tricked into flicking down one piece of dominos and that ignited the trap. The Shadow King then becomes arrogant and he leaves his nexus unguarded...apparently a mistake not even amateur telepaths would make. And she destroys his nexus which traps him in the Astral Plane.


The Shadow King incident:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7475/xmen07718cq2.th.jpghttp://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8555/xmen07719ta5.th.jpghttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6704/xmen07720tl1.th.jpghttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1954/xmen07721if4.th.jpghttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5462/xmen07722um8.th.jpghttp://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5529/xmen07723tq2.th.jpg

ExodusCloak
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1961/xmenv20780405rougherpm6.th.jpg http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/745/xmenv207808roughersd7.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2083/xmenv207809rougherej3.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9456/xmenv207815rougherhk8.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8979/xmenv207816rougherpe8.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6403/xmenv207818rougherbs8.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5210/xmenv207819rougherlx2.th.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4004/xmenv207820rougherpt9.th.jpg

IRRC Psylocke started off as a weak pre-cog, then her abilities increased after she almost got raped. She joined Psi-Force then the X-Men. Pink Bubblegum Psylocke had superior telepathic abilities then Ninja Psylocke, but once Revanche died those abilities returned. And the Crimson Dawn gave her an added boost. But even with that boost Psylocke didn't do anything impressive with her telepathy. erm

In Diamond Form, Psylocke can't hurt Emma. Emma doesn't faitgue, she doesn't need to drink or eat and her H2H skills aren't great but they aren't terrible either. With Super Strength and Durability she was able to hold her own against Sage. Ninja Kitty hurt herself when she hit Diamond Emma during their fight in AXM. So it may take some time for Betsy to tire but eventually she will and that's when Emma will take the win.

As for pure Astral Fight, I still stand with my original analysis of the Astral Plane fight. It's never been Psylockes forte and she doesn't have many impressive feats with telepathy. I can't think of anything major she's done with her telepathy after the body switch she became more H2H orientated. Bubblegum Psylocke had a lot of really bad showings, and Crimson Dawn Psylocke never did much.

What If...
Exactly my train of thought - through all the resurrections, body switches, etc. Psylocke really doesn't have that many feats - but from the beginning her telepathy has increase 10 fold, and from the beginning it was constantly said she was high tier. It's similar to Sentry - you are told he is high tier but yet he doesn't really have the feats yet.

Once the body switch took place and Psylocke became purely combatant, most of her feats took place by the psychic blade and not the direct mind like most telepaths.

In the Psi Wars arch, when her body was transformed into the a shadow astral form, instead of a basic astral form, it was mentioned she had discovered only some of the potential. Wishful thinking for me, but the potential was never really dug into by any writers.

Was there a reason she was undetectable to the shadow king, or was that just a powerset given within her astral shadow form?

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