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Who wins? No lightsaber involved, only ones knowledge of the force and magical spells.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Yoda-ep2.jpg vs. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Harris_Dumbledore_CoS.jpg

I personally would choose Dumbledore, because there's a lot more you can do with magic than with the Force.

How so? Yoda can do may things with the force, not just telekinesis.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How so? Yoda can do may things with the force, not just telekinesis. I'm well aware of that, but there's still almost infinite things available with magic, especially to someone like Dumbledore.

I say Master Yoda takes this fight. With age comes experience, and Yoda is 900 years old.

Dumbledore may be "the greatest wizard in the world", but he still just the headmaster of a school. He doesnt even teach, actually. The only "lessons" that he ever gave were cryptic and riddled and meant for Harry Potter.

Yoda is, basically, a monk who does nothing but eat sleep, and shit The Force. He has no other duties but to train Jedi.

Originally posted by Strangelove
I'm well aware of that, but there's still almost infinite things available with magic, especially to someone like Dumbledore. and what happens when Dumbledore loses his wand?

I'm just giving my analysis, man.

I know, and I am going with it....so?

Well Yoda vs. Dumbledor I can't really say.

But as far as the force is concerned, the force has brought people to life, killed people, made me people invisible, and destroyed entire planets.

It has also made entire planets invisible, and has ripped holes in the space time continuum itself and has been used to manipulate black holes.

And you don't need a wand or some incantation to do it any of it

I feel that the magical world of JK Rawling has created is grossly underpowered. Considering all of the "stuff" that is covered in the magical world, a person similar to Orochimaru would have to exist and Voldemort doesn't really cut it for me.

If someone were TRULY able to become great at magic in Rawling's Harry Potter universe, then the possibilities are endless.

As I read her stories, I thought that Voldemort was very weak considering the reputation he was supposed to have.

I could go on for pages about things that could be done by a truly powerful wizard/witch...

Still, it is no contest.

Dumbledore by a ridiculous landslide.

Both have powers to rival each other, but the Force is based on physical properties. Magic can do anything really.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk

But as far as the force is concerned, the force has brought people to life, killed people, made me people invisible,

Horcruxes prevent death, Avada Kedavra kills people and spells/Invisibility cloak makes people invisible. Also, pretty sure the Force cant actually make people invisible, it would just distort the observer into thinking they couldnt see anyone.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
and destroyed entire planets.

It has also made entire planets invisible, and has ripped holes in the space time continuum itself and has been used to manipulate black holes.


Cant argue any of these because they're just getting out of proportion in both universes.

Theres too much variety and endless possibilities with magic compared to the force:

Magic can freeze time (Order of the Phoenix), transform the caster into an animal (Prisoner of Azkaban), conjure objects/animals (Chamber of Secrets), bring inanimate objects to life (Order of the Phoenix), curse or hex a target, allow them to fly (Voldemort), send the caster back in time (Prisoner of Azkaban), teleport the caster etc.

The force simply cant do any of that because its outside the physical limitations that the force is dependent on.

Dumbledore would win.

If you guys are gonna include Hocruxes and invisibility cloaks, then Yoda will have a lightsaber.

See, but there are no invisibility cloaks, because you said there weren't going to be any.Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Who wins? No lightsaber involved, only ones knowledge of the force and magical spells. Don't go changing the conditions of the fight.


Yeah, it's pretty obviously Dumbledore.

Honestly RJ an invisibly cloak will barely mean a difference.

Jedi don't need there eyes to see.

.

Originally posted by Impediment
I say Master Yoda takes this fight. With age comes experience, and Yoda is 900 years old.

Dumbledore may be "the greatest wizard in the world", but he still just the headmaster of a school. He doesnt even teach, actually. The only "lessons" that he ever gave were cryptic and riddled and meant for Harry Potter.

Yoda is, basically, a monk who does nothing but eat sleep, and shit The Force. He has no other duties but to train Jedi.

Yoda wins.

Why?

Cause LOTR suck.

Originally posted by Strangelove
See, but there are no invisibility cloaks, because you said there weren't going to be any. Don't go changing the conditions of the fight.


Yeah, it's pretty obviously Dumbledore. hey, I am only adding that because others are bringing invisibility cloaks into the mix. So, from here on out, ONLY MAGICAL SPELLS AND THE FORCE.

I said:
Originally posted by Outbound
spells/Invisibility cloak

So even with no cloak, there are still spells. Also, whats to stop him from conjuring up a cloak, its still using a spell. Yoda cant just make a lightsaber appear out of thin air.

Also, even if Yoda had a saber, Dumbledore could transform it into something useless and Yoda would never get it back.

This is an evenly pitched battle. Dumbledore does this spell, Yoda counters with the force, Yoda tries a force hold on Dumbledore, he evades......the only advantage here is Yodas SPEED and AGILITY.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is an evenly pitched battle. Dumbledore does this spell, Yoda counters with the force, Yoda tries a force hold on Dumbledore, he evades......the only advantage here is Yodas SPEED and AGILITY.

You do not need an invisibility cloak to be invisible...remember?

Stop time and that nulls yodas speed and agility because both of those abilities are rather a function of time and space. Don't forget aparating.

Uncle could probably beat yoda with a "muay guay guai guee fai ee sao".

a who huh what?

Originally posted by dadudemon
You do not need an invisibility cloak to be invisible...remember?

Stop time and that nulls yodas speed and agility because both of those abilities are rather a function of time and space. Don't forget aparating.



Exar Kun used the force to freeze hundreds of people in the Senate chamber. Everyone except for the people he didn't want to freeze.

This fight is based more on who gets the first shot off.

Dumbledore talks alot and dies.

Yoda can move ships, cranes, senate pods, with the Force and blast dumbledor.

Yoda.

Full agreement with sithsaber. Dumbledore's awesome, but we have proof from Episode 2 Yoda can kick any old guy's ass regardless of if he has powers or not.

Yoda is surprisingly hardy for a 900 year old, Dumbledore on the othert hand...well...not so much.

Dumbledore needs to draw his wand, wave a pattern (or at least aim it) and then state the incantation. Yoda just has to will it and Senile-Fart-bag is sent crashing on his ass.

Are there not spells that can be cast without the use of a wand?

But regardless, Yoda is much physically superior so I give him the win.

Originally posted by Neo_Version 7
Are there not spells that can be cast without the use of a wand?

But regardless, Yoda is much physically superior so I give him the win.

True, however I have yet to see any major dueling ones outside of Fanon.

Originally posted by grey fox
Yoda is surprisingly hardy for a 900 year old, Dumbledore on the othert hand...well...not so much.

Dumbledore needs to draw his wand, wave a pattern (or at least aim it) and then state the incantation. Yoda just has to will it and Senile-Fart-bag is sent crashing on his ass. yup...Yoda pwns.

Yoda shouldn't have a lightsaber and no way should Dumbledore have an invisibility cloak (as if that would matter against Yoda) or a horcrux. I think this may be a draw, but I lean towards Dumbledore and here's why: Dumbledore can attack Yoda from so many different fronts. He could cause surrounding objects to spring to life and aid him in the battle (Order of the Phoenix).

Yoda would have the better reflexes and could manipulate his surroundings as well- but I'm not sure he could create a mini army to attack Dumbledore.

Also, Dumbledore does not need to speak incantations.

Yoda is 900 years old, surely Yoda do some of the things NJO Luke can, such as use force shields, force concealment, shit like that.

Unless his laziness or stupidity take over this is an easy win for Dumbeldore, I'd say.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15952_7-most-powerful-wizards-too-lazy-use-their-powers.html

Originally posted by Bardock42
Unless his laziness or stupidity take over this is an easy win for Dumbeldore, I'd say.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15952_7-most-powerful-wizards-too-lazy-use-their-powers.html

I did not know this, as I am not a Potter follower, but I think you're absolutely right considering:

"He's a kindly old man, which is a good thing because he can turn invisible, create objects out of thin air, read minds, shoot fire, whatever. He's pretty much a god."

Originally posted by Bardock42
Unless his laziness or stupidity take over this is an easy win for Dumbeldore, I'd say.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15952_7-most-powerful-wizards-too-lazy-use-their-powers.html Yes, Lets totally ignore the powers a 900 year old Jedi Master might have, and lets focus only on Dumbledore.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, Lets totally ignore the powers a 900 year old Jedi Master might have, and lets focus only on Dumbledore. Kay, they weren't enough to beat Sidious, with Light Sabre.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Kay, they weren't enough to beat Sidious, with Light Sabre. Sidious pretty much fought dirty, using powers Yoda had access to, but refused to use.

But still, Touche, you bastard.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sidious pretty much fought dirty, using powers Yoda had access to, but refused to use.

But still, Touche, you bastard.

Also Palpatine had the plot on his side, he HAD to win, otherwise it annuls Episodes IV,V and VI. I was quite surprised Yoda put up as much fight as he did, considering that Lucas practically assassinated the concept of a Jedi in Episode III, turning powerful quasi-mystical space knights into effective cannon fodder for faceless drones.

Yoda is so damn FAST, man.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yoda is so damn FAST, man.

Another point against his mugwumpness. How can an aging infirm man aim at a tiny ball of aggression, practically pin-balling his way around the arena ?

Answer : He can't.

Indeed.

Again, I agree with you both to an extent. If it is truly 1-on-1, Yoda has the advantage with speed (but not by as much as most would think). Dumbledore would bring an array of magical talents that would blow us away.

Dumbledore is a prodigy and he does have extremely fast reflexes for his age- remember, don't be fooled by the "movie Dumbledore". The books are what's canon for Harry Potter, and if you've read them you'll know that his reflexes are rivaled only by Voldemort...yet neither are "Jedi reflexes".

I'm rambling but my point was, why wouldn't Dumbledore just conjure all sorts of things and weapons out of thin air? Why wouldn't he inject life into his surroundings and have them come at Yoda from all angles? I mean, there are soooo many things that Dumbledore could do here to help himself!

Where does magic fit into the Force? If a Jedi uses life energy to assist them in battle. A wizard either does the same or follows no such rules that a jedi must abide by and completely manipulates "the force" to their will, limited only by their imagination. This may be a case of Superman having no resistance to magic. Yoda may be able to drop a moon on someone, but a powerful enough wizard may be able to make that same moon disappear. Seriously, as much as i hate to admit that yoda could be bested by some old dude that uses a wand to teach little children how to use their wands. Does Yoda have any type of defense to magic? What is to stop Dumbledore from simply turning Yoda into a mouse for the win?

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Does Yoda have any type of defense to magic? What is to stop Dumbledore from simply turning Yoda into a mouse for the win? Does Dumbledore have any type of defense to the force?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Does Dumbledore have any type of defense to the force? Does Yoda have any kind of defense to magic?

I think we should spend the next three pages saying that back and forth.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Does Dumbledore have any type of defense to the force?

If that site is correct in assessing Dumble****s powers, then Yoda is doomed before it starts.

" whatever" and "god" are self explanatory in their kickassness.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Does Yoda have any kind of defense to magic?

I think we should spend the next three pages saying that back and forth. Yours would be the THIRD volley, read closer.

I didn't check the link, but I do think people always underestimate the powers of the characters in the Potterverse. Perhaps, it's simply because under the scope of her story, nobody really was cruel enough to do anything incredibly cruel other than murder and torture.

Possession, mind control, vanishing/reappearing anywhere at will, one-hit death attacks, flying, conjuring objects from thin air, command over the natural elements, shape-shifting, the ability to inject life into surrounding objects and command them to do your bidding...these powers are no joke!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yours would be the THIRD volley, read closer. That's why I was suggesting it.

Though, just saying, the link is a humorous article written by one guy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Does Dumbledore have any type of defense to the force?

yeah, magic.

Knowing the sheer amount of power Dumbledore has, I don't think Yoda has a chance, 900 years or not.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
yeah, magic. yeah, the force.....

You can spout anything you want about the Force, but the fact is what you can do with magic is near limitless, especially with the knowledge and power that Dumbledore has. The Force is powerful, no doubt, but if you take Force abilities, even those used in EU material, it just doesn't compare.

It'd be a hell of a fight, sure, but Dumbledore takes the win, no doubt.

Just saying that Yoda can prolly counter MOST, not ALL what Dumbles throws at him. And he can use telekinesis also, hurl things at Dumbles, which Dumbles can prolly do too.

Using "prolly" just lost you a whole lot of legitimacy.

Probably. It's not that hard to type.

Have you actually read the Harry Potter books? The magnitude of what Dumbledore can do overwhelms Yoda, no doubt in my mind.

crylaugh right.

Dumbles spells at Yoda, Yoda ducks, rolls, lands under Dumbles, and treats his sac like a speedbag.

You are an extreme case of fanboy, RJ. It is pathetic.

A petulant one, at that.

Yeah, I am the petulant one. Lets go with that.

The problem with magic is that it isn't instantaneous. Dumbledore has to wave his wand and say an incantation. There are spells that don't need to be said, nor need a wand to be cast, yet most magic turns into some physical manifestation, a colorful beam of sorts, that then flies at the enemy and then it affects them.

The force, on the other hand, is instant. The user simply thinks it in there mind, and it happens. It's also invisible, and not physical. You can't detect it, you can't outrun it, and you can't dodge it.

Whereas Dumbledore has to think of what spell he wants to use, cast it, then hope it hits. Due tot he fact that Yoda has precognition... he can most likely dodge most of Dumbledore's attacks. We have seen people dodge magic attacks and use statues as shields and such to take the hit for them, Yoda with his insane speed, size, and with the force telling him what's going to happen a second before it happens he should be able to fend off most of Dumbledor's attacks.

On the other hand... what spell can Dumbledore use that will allow him to keep Yoda from simply looking at him... thus snapping his neck with the force? Dumbledore can't see the attack coming, he has no precognition to tell him what's going to happen, it's invisible and it's everywhere.

Having a billion uber powerful attacks won't help you if you can't cast any of them before you're dead.

Yoda wins via force speed blitz. Dumbledore's no slouch, but I just can't see him being able to even get anything off before half the bones in his body are instantly crushed.

Actually, Dumbledore can do spells without incantations, at least he did in Order of the Phoenix.

But I agree, Yoda will be faster physically and faster in his attacks.

Also the 900 years DOES indeed make a differrence, any dolt can see that. Dunno why someone dismissed it earlier.

Well, I think whoever said that's point was that even with the 900 years, Dumbledore still has the edge in varietyand versatility of attacks, which is true.

Yoda's are ten times faster though.

Yodas powers arent exactly miniscule, man. Do some research on it.

You're telling.. me to do some research on Yoda's powers?

My friend, I'm a Star Wars fanboy.

Yoda's powers are also vast, but he doesn't have possibly hundreds of different attacks that have hundreds of different effects and ranges like Dumbledore does. Yoda's best attacks consist mainly of using TK in a variety of ways. Tossing objects around, pushing people, crushing things etc.

I was actually referring to those who call us fanboys, THEY should do the research, may bad.

Remember that link I posted in the luke vs. Neo thread, with all of the force powers? IGNORED.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dumbles spells at Yoda, Yoda ducks, rolls, lands under Dumbles, and treats his sac like a speedbag.

What if it's a death spell, can Yoda duck and roll that shit?

Edit: Concerning your "900 years old", didn't he die of old age at around 900? So not sure if being that ancient is a plus for Yoda, as it shows he's well into old age. Maybe if he was a few centuries younger.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was actually referring to those who call us fanboys, THEY should do the research, may bad.

Remember that link I posted in the luke vs. Neo thread, with all of the force powers? IGNORED. Excuse me? I grew up on Star Wars, buddy. I know plenty about Force powers.

Your attitude towards this is absolutely childish, though.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Excuse me? I grew up on Star Wars, buddy. I know plenty about Force powers.

Your attitude towards this is absolutely childish, though. Bullshit. You and I were laughing and shit, I make a post about Yoda treating Dumbles sac like a speedbag, which was a JOKE, btw, someone bashes me for it, and you join the mob with the flaming torches. Way to fall in line like a good little soldier.

Originally posted by Robtard
What if it's a death spell, can Yoda duck and roll that shit?

Edit: Concerning your "900 years old", didn't he die of old age at around 900? So not sure if being that ancient is a plus for Yoda, as it shows he's well into old age. Maybe if he was a few centuries younger. Hey, maybe he CAN duck and roll that shit, maybe he CAN block it, who knows?

And are you seriously giving me crap about maybe being off a century on his age?

For the record, here are SOME of the powers Yoda has access to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_powers


And the same for Dumbledore: (this is all I could find, feel free to post a better one)

http://www.harrypotter.ca/characters/albus-dumbledore-01.php

and another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albus_Dumbledore

Hmm.....Doesnt say anything about Dumbledore having precog abilities......SO.....Yoda, knowing what Dumbledore is gonna do BEFORE he does it, along with the fact that he is faster physically and in his attack speed.....well, do the math. This is not fanboy talk, this is just how it is.

I very much doubt Dumbledore would even want to fight Yoda; the guy seems more of a lover than a fighter. Therefore, probably the most likely result of a Dumbledore/Yoda confrontation would involve a tub of vaseline and some mood lighting. Nakedness would also most definitely ensue.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I very much doubt Dumbledore would even want to fight Yoda; the guy seems more of a lover than a fighter. Therefore, probably the most likely result of a Dumbledore/Yoda confrontation would involve a tub of vaseline and some mood lighting. Nakedness would also most definitely ensue. DUDE... crylaugh

I may be wrong here, but didn't most Jedi get mowed down by an average of 5-10 Clonewarriors.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I may be wrong here, but didn't most Jedi get mowed down by an average of 5-10 Clonewarriors. and how would Dumbles fare against 10 clone troopers, all concentrating their fire on him? He wouldnt last two seconds.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and how would Dumbles fare against 10 clone troopers, all concentrating their fire on him? He wouldnt last two seconds.

Maybe.

I think the problem is mostly that you think Yoda could beat Dumbledore and Neo with his little toe, then jump up to heaven and rape God and Jesus with his lightsabre.


Jedi are very powerful, but they have limits as well.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe.

I think the problem is mostly that you think Yoda could beat Dumbledore and Neo with his little toe, then jump up to heaven and rape God and Jesus with his lightsabre.


Jedi are very powerful, but they have limits as well.
Hey, I am just looking at their available powers and being open sbout it. You tell me how Dumbles can counter a force hold or a force choke, or how he is gonna fight while his heart is being crushed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I may be wrong here, but didn't most Jedi get mowed down by an average of 5-10 Clonewarriors.

You're correct.

Yoda isn't most Jedi though.

And if you take into consideration the context under which said Jedi were mostly mowed down... it doesn't make them look that bad.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bullshit. You and I were laughing and shit, I make a post about Yoda treating Dumbles sac like a speedbag, which was a JOKE, btw, someone bashes me for it, and you join the mob with the flaming torches. Way to fall in line like a good little soldier. Way to try to divert attention from what I actually said. Distractions rule.

For the record, I always thought you were being childish. I usually just keep it to myself.

Here's a thought....why dont you tell me how Dumbles can counter a force hold? or a force choke? or any of the other force powers Yoda can throw at him with just a thought?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's a thought....why dont you tell me how Dumbles can counter a force hold? or a force choke? or any of the other force powers Yoda can throw at him with just a thought? Probably the same way Boba was able to against Vader.


Or..magic.

Still, yoda wins this, he has completely mastered the force, and is a little green man!

Meh. Just for emphasis, I think that it should be firmly established that both fighters can end the other one's life with one attack.

So with that being the case... who gets there one attack off first? I think Yoda does.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Probably the same way Boba was able to against Vader.


Or..magic. If Dumbles counters BEFORE Yoda attacks, then yes, its possible for him to evade, but if Yoda gets him in a Force grip, he cant move, therefore he cant do spells, can he?

Yoda has the advantage here, he can use the force with only a thought, whereas Dumables will either have to speak an incantation, or do some kind of wand gesture.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Hey, maybe he CAN duck and roll that shit, maybe he CAN block it, who knows?

And are you seriously giving me crap about maybe being off a century on his age?

Well, if we're using the "who knows" as a valid point, then maybe Dumbledore can snap his fingers and make Yoda's failing heart stop, ya know, "who knows".

No. I am saying that you using Yoda's extreme age as a plus, could actually be a negative, as he died of old age at around 900.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If Dumbles counters BEFORE Yoda attacks, then yes, its possible for him to evade, but if Yoda gets him in a Force grip, he cant move, therefore he cant do spells, can he?

Yoda has the advantage here, he can use the force with only a thought, whereas Dumables will either have to speak an incantation, or do some kind of wand gesture.

"Who knows" if he can or can't cast spells while in a force grip.

"Who knows."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yoda has the advantage here, he can use the force with only a thought, whereas Dumables will either have to speak an incantation, or do some kind of wand gesture.

No, because there's like silent spells and stuff.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if we're using the "who knows" as a valid point, then maybe Dumbledore can snap his fingers and make Yoda's failing heart stop, ya know, "who knows".

No. I am saying that you using Yoda's extreme age as a plus, could actually be a negative, as he died of old age at around 900. exactly, "who knows."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
exactly, "who knows."

Uranium has nothing on you, sir.

My point: If we don't go by what is canon and we start making up any silly scenario we like and justifying it with a "who knows" disclaimer at the end, then there isn't any sensible point in having a hypothetical debate over two fictional characters in a fight... as stupid as that is to begin with.

Translation: Yoda doesnt display his full powers in the movies, so this is how I am gonna win.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yeah, the force.....

im just saying. I've never seen anything that would suggest that a jedi can defend against magic. Magic, however has the advantage of producing just about anything you can imagine. It may be cheap, but a warlocks arsenal has to offer much more than a jedi's. A jedi must abide by certain rules. A wizard makes up their own rules.

the suggestion that we havent seen yoda's full potential is probably true. In a new jedi order. Lukes son brought down a mountain side using his force power. So, this has to make one wonder what Yoda could do in his prime.

I thought it was common knowledge that we ARE talking about Yoda in his prime.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
im just saying. I've never seen anything that would suggest that a jedi can defend against magic. Magic, however has the advantage of producing just about anything you can imagine. It may be cheap, but a warlocks arsenal has to offer much more than a jedi's. A jedi must abide by certain rules. A wizard makes up their own rules.



Magic also has the disadvantage of taking a lot longer to cast then a force attack.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
No, because there's like silent spells and stuff.

Won't matter. Yoda wouldn't use a force choke. That takes too long. While the enemy is slowly dying of asphixiation he can counter with some magic.

The better tactical decision would be to just snap his next. It's instantaneous.

Yes, and what's a next?

Meant to say neck.

I know.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Translation: Yoda doesnt display his full powers in the movies, so this is how I am gonna win.

Right, he holds back against Palpatine and Dooku. Since nothing's at stake.

Yoda outdueld Dooku in AotC, and he fought him a second time on a planet that was literally steeped in the darkside (Big power boost for Dooku), and beat him again in a lightsaber duel, while simultaneously using the force to keep a women that Dooku had thrown out a window as a distraction from falling to her death.

Dooku is not even on Yoda's level, really.

As for Sideous... it's debatable who would have won if they had kept fighting. The only reason Yoda "lost" the fight is because he's lighter, smaller, and was closer to the edge of the platform. Thus when the force lightning exploded he flew farther back and off the edge.

At that point he had lost his lightsaber, and Palaptine's clone security gaurds were on their way. He couldn't hope to beat all of them without his lightsaber. So he fled.

He lost because of circumstances beyond his control, not because he was outclassed.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Yoda outdueld Dooku in AotC, and he fought him a second time on a planet that was literally steeped in the darkside (Big power boost for Dooku), and beat him again in a lightsaber duel, while simultaneously using the force to keep a women that Dooku had thrown out a window as a distraction from falling to her death.

Dooku is not even on Yoda's level, really.

As for Sideous... it's debatable who would have won if they had kept fighting. The only reason Yoda "lost" the fight is because he's lighter, smaller, and was closer to the edge of the platform. Thus when the force lightning exploded he flew farther back and off the edge.

At that point he had lost his lightsaber, and Palaptine's clone security gaurds were on their way. He couldn't hope to beat all of them without his lightsaber. So he fled.

He lost because of circumstances beyond his control, not because he was outclassed.

Yes, either kinda puts a damper on the, Yoda just needs one thought and has won though.

Not really, no. Jedi are trained to counter the one thought thing with there own force powers. It's kind of like a permanent auto-defense. I think Jedi Outcast explains it better then the books do, I can't remember which one's better.

But notice how throughout the movies and books Jedi go around doing that with nonforce sensitives all the time, but don't do it to other Jedi.

It's intresting how inconsistant it is, though. We see Vader choking Padme with ease, choking various Imperials, etc. Yet when he fights Boba Fett he almost loses? I don't know why Vader didn't even bother to try using the force. Boredom maybe? Dunno.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Not really, no. Jedi are trained to counter the one thought thing with there own force powers. It's kind of like a permanent auto-defense. I think Jedi Outcast explains it better then the books do, I can't remember which one's better.

But notice how throughout the movies and books Jedi go around doing that with nonforce sensitives all the time, but don't do it to other Jedi.

It's intresting how inconsistant it is, though. We see Vader choking Padme with ease, choking various Imperials, etc. Yet when he fights Boba Fett he almost loses? I don't know why Vader didn't even bother to try using the force. Boredom maybe? Dunno.

Actually, that's the point. When Vader fought Boba he did use the force, but Boba could still react, which gave him the advantage in the end. And that's what annoys me, the Star Wars fanboys go into every debate assuming that the opponent is a low level stormtrooper.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, that's the point. When Vader fought Boba he did use the force, but Boba could still react, which gave him the advantage in the end. And that's what annoys me, the Star Wars fanboys go into every debate assuming that the opponent is a low level stormtrooper. You sure he used the force?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You sure he used the force?

"Who knows?"

Indeed, but soon I will know.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I thought it was common knowledge that we ARE talking about Yoda in his prime.

You're the one who brought in his 900 year age into the debate. Just an FYI.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're the one who brought in his 900 year age into the debate. Just an FYI. Yeah, I was just quoting his age. I assumed we were talking about ROTS Yoda, but then someone said something about Yoda in his prime. Maybe that was Yoda in his prime.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, I was just quoting his age. I assumed we were talking about ROTS Yoda, but then someone said something about Yoda in his prime. Maybe that was Yoda in his prime.

You were using his 900 years of age as plus in the fight.

Considering he commented to Luke that he wouldn't look as good at 900 and then died a few scenes later. I doubt that was Yoda at his best.

Originally posted by Robtard
You were using his 900 years of age as plus in the fight.

Considering he commented to Luke that he wouldn't look as good at 900 and then died a few scenes later. I doubt that was Yoda at his best. well then 870 or 875, whatever age he was in ROTS.

You have to remember Yoda is an alien being, just because humans get slower as they get older, that doesnt mean his species does.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You sure he used the force? Oh yeah, big time sure.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh yeah, big time sure. Did you read it somewhere? link.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did you read it somewhere? link. No, I didn't read it "somewhere", I read it right at the source.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I didn't read it "somewhere", I read it right at the source. I dont suppose you are gonna link me the source?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I dont suppose you are gonna link me the source? Contrary to popular belief it is not possible to "link" a comic book printed on paper.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Contrary to popular belief it is not possible to "link" a comic book printed on paper. Well, whats the name of the comic? is there like an issue number?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, whats the name of the comic? is there like an issue number?

What kind of Star Wars geek are you?

Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire #4

Originally posted by Bardock42
What kind of Star Wars geek are you?

Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire #4 The Comics are one area of SW I have never explored.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Contrary to popular belief it is not possible to "link" a comic book printed on paper.

It is quite possible to "link" to a scan or "link" to an article/summary of what you are referring to...mr. smarty pants.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is quite possible to "link" to a scan or "link" to an article/summary of what you are referring to...mr. smarty pants.

True. I do not have either though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
True. I do not have either though. Shit, I was gonna ask you to scan it. Guess I can order it online?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Shit, I was gonna ask you to scan it. Guess I can order it online? Probably, it's one of the major Star Wars Comic Books as far as I am aware.

It's also worth it. One of the better written ones I know. Great portrayal of Boba as well as Vader, too.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Boba-Enemy-Empire/dp/156971407X/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210744432&sr=8-2

It's a good start into the Star Wars Comic Book EU

Originally posted by Bardock42
Probably, it's one of the major Star Wars Comic Books as far as I am aware.

It's also worth it. One of the better written ones I know. Great portrayal of Boba as well as Vader, too.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Boba-Enemy-Empire/dp/156971407X/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210744432&sr=8-2

It's a good start into the Star Wars Comic Book EU Tackling the SW comic universe will be the final frontier for me as far as immersing myself in the saga.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, that's the point. When Vader fought Boba he did use the force, but Boba could still react, which gave him the advantage in the end.

Show me the attack that he used, was it choke? Crush maybe? Do you actually know that he used a force attack or are you just guessing that he did? I'd like to see the context.



Well, no. There's no "assumption" about it. It's a fact that Dumbledore might as well be a stormtrooper. Because he's not beating Yoda.

And I still don't see why the word fanboy is being tossed around. Just because Yoda would wipe the floor with Dumbeldore and Luke would wipe the floor with mortal Neo doesn't make anyone a fanboy. That's like calling someone a fanboy because they say Superman would WTFdestroy Wolverine in a fight with ease. It's just a fact. If it's not, show me proof to the contrary.

No one has bothered to give a coutner argument to my point about Dumbledore losing not because his attacks are weaker, but slower to use. I’ve posted it maybe three times… but people have been, coincidentally, ignoring it. Before the term “fanboy” is thrown around anymore I think that attention should be given to it. The closest thing to a decent counter is Bardock's thing about Vader vs. Boba.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Show me the attack that he used, was it choke? Crush maybe? Do you actually know that he used a force attack or are you just guessing that he did? I'd like to see the context.



I'd say it's force Stasis. Obviously it doesn't say "Beware, Boba fett, I am using the force power knowns as force stasis on you", but unless Boba is prone to paralyzing seizures I'd say it is pretty clear from the context.

Game Set and Match, then.

RJ is making the same mistake, though.

Force choke? Stasis? Choke takes time to kill you, you can be using that time to do something else. Paralysis isn't even lethal. Niether attacks would be useful. If Vader had used force crush, Boba would be dead. Force crush is instant death, it doesn't play around, it doesn't make you fall to your knees first and gasp, it just straight up... kills you. We've seen people scramble out of force chokes and fight off paralysis, but no one has ever resisted a force crush attack or having there neck violently thrown backwards because it doesn't take any time. It doesn't give the victim time to muster up some sort of defense or think of a distraction or anything else.

I think that if Yoda used force choke or tried some paralysis attack Dumbledore would cast some magic to save himself and possibly win the match. If Yoda just breaks his neck instantly, on the other hand, then it's just over. Because the crush is instantaenous and undetectable they don't have any time to do anything about it.

Christ, I am spending way too much ****ing time on this. Well, any ****ing who, I looked through my immense (and un-ordered) collection of comics and did find Enemy of the Empire (I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.' `That's the comics department.' `With a torch.' `Ah, well the lights had probably gone.' `So had the stairs.' `But look you found the comic didn't you?' `Yes,' said Arthur, `yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of The Leopard".) and lacking better faculties for getting pictures on a PC at the moment....took a photo of the pages. Well, ****alidee, here they are (German...as stated (also horrible quality, just so you know I actually do own the comic book I am talking about)

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/IMAGE_008.jpg

Vader using Jedi Mind Trick on Boba. Boba able to fight against it and ultimately escape it.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/IMAGE_007.jpg

Vader using either force stasis or a strong form of total body force choke on Boba. Boba resisting and being able to even kick.


Now, lets keep in mind that it was stated that Vader was set to kill Boba. Lets also keep in mind that Vader is a bad ass dark side bastard kinda mother****er. And on top of that lets keep in mind how immensely valuable the prize they are fighting about is. And then...explain, why he (nor any other Jedi or Sith ever I can think of) did not use the force the way you describe it to kill Boba instantly, but instead let him own his Nubian ass?


And yes, yes, it is very, very much fanboyish to go into a debate, not objectively, but with the preset idea that the Star Wars character can not lose, without a doubt, assume that Godlike creatures like Dumbledore and Neo have the willpower of the common Java retard...far below anything a humanoid mandalorian (without force, magic or awesome endless Matrix power) like Boba Fett has. Yes, stating that Yoda would wipe the floor with Dumbledore, stating that NJO Luke would own Neo without a second thought, is fanboyish and in no relation to anything any Jedi ever showed in the movies or the 80+ EU Comics I read. Sorry, man, but a 10 out of 10 for either Yoda or Luke is in no way a given.

Also:

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/YodavsDumbeldore.png


And yes, I realize I can't spell scenario. **** you, too.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Also:

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/YodavsDumbeldore.png


And yes, I realize I can't spell scenario. **** you, too.

crylaugh

What kind of cheddar cheese?!?


On a serious note, how could Dumbledore point his wand and say the magic words if he was "force frozen"?

Originally posted by Impediment
crylaugh

What kind of cheddar cheese?!?


On a serious note, how could Dumbledore point his wand and say the magic words if he was "force frozen"?

Yoda seems to think that he is turned into cheddar. Delicious kind, I hear.

Well, I'd need a few questions answered first.
1) How well can Yoda freeze people?
2) What can people that are in stasis do?
3) How does Dumbeldore's magic ability, will power and possible spells relate to Yoda's force grip.
4) Can Dumbeldore use spells without speaking or signs?

White cheddar? Mild? Spicy?


(I also edited my last post with another question.)

Originally posted by Impediment
White cheddar? Mild? Spicy?


(I also edited my last post with another question.) First Cheese that I knew the English name of that came to mind. Also pretty common cheese. So..I didn't give very much thought to the specifics. I'm sorry

I edited as well:

Well, I'd need a few questions answered first.
1) How well can Yoda freeze people?
2) What can people that are in stasis do?
3) How does Dumbeldore's magic ability, will power and possible spells relate to Yoda's force grip.
4) Can Dumbeldore use spells without speaking or signs?

I am not saying it is a realistic example. I just don't see Yoda usually snapping peoples neck with a thought. Also, I don't really know much about Dumbeldore, so I wouldn't go as far as to claim that he'd certainly win. But he's still pretty powerful it seems.

I think you sufficiently proved that "The Force" isn't the end all, be all in a fight, as the fanboys want to believe.

Edit: I also find it odd that the Jedi rarely use their force powers in a fight, sure they occasionally tossed shit aside, but they kill with their sabers and not these "uber" force chokes/holds.

Vader proved to us in The Empire Strikes Back how well the "force choke" works by strangling Admiral Ozzel over the T.V. set when he bumbled the surprise attack at the Battle of Hoth.

If any Jedi chose to, they could easily kill an opponent via the "force choke", beit to strangle or snap necks. However, a Light Side Jedi does not use The Force as an attack.

Originally posted by Impediment
Vader proved to us in The Empire Strikes Back how well the "force choke" works by strangling Admiral Ozzel over the T.V. set when he bumbled the surprise attack at the Battle of Hoth.

If any Jedi chose to, they could easily kill an opponent via the "force choke", beit to strangle or snap necks. However, a Light Side Jedi does not use The Force as an attack.

It just wasn't instant. And also not against a powerful being. And also apparently not something he can do when it actually matters, like, for example, when he really, really wants something Boba Fett has.

Also, there's no indication that every Jedi can use force choke. Yoda never did to my knowledge. I do recall a specific Comic Book in which Anakin "discovers" the force choke for himself, which would imply that it is not really standard training. Also, are we to assume that Yoda would slip into the darkside in this fight or would he just use the powers he actually used?

Yoda would use the Force as he saw fit. I imagine that, in the very last circumstance, if he had no other option, he would probably use a force choke. I mean, if he can lift an X-Wing out of a bog, why couldn't he snap a neck?

Originally posted by Impediment
Yoda would use the Force as he saw fit. I imagine that, in the very last circumstance, if he had no other option, he would probably use a force choke. I mean, if he can lift an X-Wing out of a bog, why couldn't he snap a neck?

Likely cause the force affects sentient and living beings differently than dead matter. Either way, it seems pretty apparent that it doesn't work that easily. As no one really does it, ever.

Originally posted by Robtard
I think you sufficiently proved that "The Force" isn't the end all, be all in a fight, as the fanboys want to believe.


Now now now. Don't get out the celebratory cups just yet.

When I get home from school I will counter everything that's been said so far.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Now now now. Don't get out the celebratory cups just yet.

When I get home from school I will counter everything that's been said so far.

A scan or source where a Yoda easily (under a second) snapped the neck of someone powerful would do.

Originally posted by Bardock42
A scan or source where a Yoda easily (under a second) snapped the neck of someone powerful would do.

So why would a Jedi Master do that again?

Originally posted by dadudemon
So why would a Jedi Master do that again? Exactly.

Apart from Bardock's beautiful drawing, this whole discussion is completely retrarded.

I like it.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Apart from Bardock's beautiful drawing, this whole discussion is completely retrarded.

I like it.

I thought about you while painting it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Exactly.

*reads over the last several pages*


Makes sense now why you'd say that.

Just coming back to this for a second:
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Translation: Yoda doesnt display his full powers in the movies, so this is how I am gonna win. Dumbledore's full range of power been explored either. But in EU materials, Yoda's limits are much better tested and explored. Hell, forget the limits of Dumbledore's power, we don't even know the limits of magic. If you're going to base your argument that Yoda's full power hasn't been used, then that's an argument you're going to lose, amigo.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I thought about you while painting it.

You are a beautiful person. Now, please tell me I was Dumbledore. He'd totally own Yoda's green, wrinkly, pleb-hanging ass-crack.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
You are a beautiful person. Now, please tell me I was Dumbledore. He'd totally own Yoda's green, wrinkly, pleb-hanging ass-crack. No, friend...no.


You were the wand.

Aha...You're saying I'm rock hard and stick-like. I like, I very like.

You seen that Mysterious Ticking Noise thing? Sweet as, my man. Sweet as.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I feel that the magical world of JK Rawling has created is grossly underpowered. Considering all of the "stuff" that is covered in the magical world, a person similar to Orochimaru would have to exist and Voldemort doesn't really cut it for me.

If someone were TRULY able to become great at magic in Rawling's Harry Potter universe, then the possibilities are endless.

As I read her stories, I thought that Voldemort was very weak considering the reputation he was supposed to have.

I could go on for pages about things that could be done by a truly powerful wizard/witch...

Still, it is no contest.

Dumbledore by a ridiculous landslide.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Now now now. Don't get out the celebratory cups just yet.

When I get home from school I will counter everything that's been said so far.

Not to be a dick, and you know I love your WetBlack ass, but you spend an awful long time in School.



Damn, I just checked the racial slur database, and it seems I was not the first to come up with that one

Originally posted by Bardock42
Damn, I just checked the racial slur database, and it seems I was not the first to come up with that one

WTF? Is that German owned and operated?