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It depends on whether Anakin is at his full potential. If he is, he could telepathically lead the storm troopers and mind rape everyone else simultaneously. Otherwise the rebels win.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
It depends on whether Anakin is at his full potential. Movie feats.

How many troopers did he have, I don't remember.

It was in the thousands, not sure exactly. There are a coule thousand Jedi in the temple as well.

Since Anakin isn't at his full potential, he gets overwhelmed eventually, by I'm guessing Colossus or Wolverine.

Vader isn't the problem IMO. It's the VAST number of Clones from the 501st. These guys are the elite. There tech far out does anyone from the Team w/ the exception of meybe Data. All they would have to do is surround someone with 7 or 8 troops and put them down with blaster fire. These guys don't just carry blasters. Some have RPG type guns, as well as miniguns.

These people prolly get sliced and diced..

Logan has a chance because I don't know whether or not a lightsaber can cut through adamantium

i havent read the list yet but if he is in this wolverine wins.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
These people prolly get sliced and diced..

Logan has a chance because I don't know whether or not a lightsaber can cut through adamantium

Vader can't be everywhere in the temple at once. The temple is freaking huge. And the Team will probably be using guerrilla war tactics. Or else they'd be overwhelmed.

Logan is good for this fight b/c of obvious reasons. And check my OP, lightsaber cannot cut Adamantium for this battle.

Lightsabres can't cut adamantium, period. Just a fact.

Well I wouldn't consider it fact, for the simple reason that we hav't seen it tested against one. But however we cdan assume since there are various metals and materials in SWU that can resist them. Mainly cortosis, magna droid's staffs, and Vaders suit.

Yeah, but what I said.

What was Vaders suit made of anyway?

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
What was Vaders suit made of anyway?

Mostly rubber.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
What was Vaders suit made of anyway?

John McClane's morning eye-crust.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
What was Vaders suit made of anyway?

A mix of durasteel, obsidian and plasteel

That is a helluva lineup defending the Jedi Temple. I'm gonna go ahead and say the team wins this. Just imo.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
A mix of durasteel, obsidian and plasteel ty

Originally posted by WO Polaski
i havent read the list yet but if he is in this wolverine wins. Vader would handle Wolverine the same way I handle my penis every morning.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Vader would handle Wolverine the same way I handle my penis every morning.

He'd hold him tightly and cry the deep cry of disgust? Odd thing for Vader to do, but okay.

Wait, so are the rest of the Jedi masters there? All except for Obi, Yoda and Mace?

Originally posted by Robtard
He'd hold him tightly and cry the deep cry of disgust? Odd thing for Vader to do, but okay. No, he would take a butter knife and slowly cut into him, tearing into his flesh but unable to cut all the way through due to the density.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Vader would handle Wolverine the same way I handle my penis every morning. Vader would simply force choke Wolvie until Wolvie dies of asphyxiation.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wait, so are the rest of the Jedi masters there? All except for Obi, Yoda and Mace? All of the ones that were at the Temple not out on other missions across the galaxy. Not many big guns like those 3 or Plo Koon but Cin Drallig who is in his own right the lighsaber instructor at the Temple. And the rest of the big guns like Kit Fisto went with Mace to apprehend Sidious. So just say there are Jedi there. No big names, but they are Jedi nonetheless and roughly a thousand of them. But there are a hell of alot more troops from the 501st.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Vader would simply force choke Wolvie until Wolvie dies of asphyxiation. Which is possible in every right........but remember he would be leaving one arm out of the fight with the rest of things. But yeah, Wolverine isn't taking Vader straight up, no way.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Vader would simply force choke Wolvie until Wolvie dies of asphyxiation.

wolverine cant die from asphyxiation.

Has this been proven in the movies?

what do you mean? how has it been proven he can die from asphyxiation in the movies? it hasnt.

Its pretty simple. If Wolvie cannot breathe, he cannot live. He needs air to live.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
what do you mean? how has it been proven he can die from asphyxiation in the movies? it hasnt. It has not been proven that Wolverine can survive without air. Why should we assume he can?

I don't need to prove he cannot survive without air, you must prove he can.

I'm going to have to think this one over since the objective is to protect the Jedi Temple. If the Jedi die, regardless if any of the team is still alive, it's mission fail.

Concerning Wolverine, he maybe hard to kill, but he still feels pain and can go unconscious like anybody else. Which he has in the past. If Logan or Jimmy (whatever you want to call him) blacks out, Vader's army isn't stupid enough to leave him on the floor and assume he's out. Instead for someone like him, they'll most likely put him in some sort of energy restraint, pull him out of there and finish him off in the nearest base.

I'm a bit surprised the deranged Spider-man fans (this doesn't included Rob or Sadako) aren't saying Peter solos Vader's army before any of them realize what just hit them. Then Peter goes up to the Death Star and rapes Palpatine. This of course is right before he blows up the moon size space station with his punches.

Spider-Man is impressive. But w/ no armor he might be killed on the first blast that connects with him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It has not been proven that Wolverine can survive without air. Why should we assume he can?

I don't need to prove he cannot survive without air, you must prove he can.

all asphyxiation is is damage to organs as a result of lack of oxygen until they cont function anymore. suffocation specifically is your brain dying from lack of oxygen. as we've seen logan can function without the use of major organs including his brain as they will just heal eventually and he'll be brought back to life. whatever damage his brain takes from a lack of oxygen hell just heal from.

but the debate aside what makes you think logan can be killed from a lack of air when his comic version cant? what from the movies makes you think that?

Originally posted by WO Polaski
all asphyxiation is is damage to organs as a result of lack of oxygen until they cont function anymore. suffocation specifically is your brain dying from lack of oxygen. as we've seen logan can function without the use of major organs including his brain as they will just heal eventually and he'll be brought back to life. whatever damage his brain takes from a lack of oxygen hell just heal from.

but the debate aside what makes you think logan can be killed from a lack of air when his comic version cant? what from the movies makes you think that? So...This is all based on comic feats?

Because unless he did in Origins, he CANNOT survive without major organs.

I don't need to prove that he can't live from a lack of air, you need to prove he can.

And...Prove he can live without his major bodily organs.

Comic feats do not count, comics=/=movies, as Juggernaut can tell you.

If the brain dies, Logan dies, thats just basic math. Or biology, whatever.

Wolverine would eventually die from lack of oxygen.

Almost all organisms use aerobic respiration. Metabolism of almost all pathways (including cell proliferation) requires energy generated by aerobic respiration. Without this, eventually all cells would cease to function and die off.

Anaerobic respiration is often also a viable form of metabolism for short periods of time. However, there will eventually be a build up of toxic waste such as CO2 that cannot escape the system. However, long before that, Logan's brain cells would have died, and eventually all his body's cells will become necrotic.

Nonetheless, all of this is still meaningless as Logan's mutant ability already defies the laws of physics, and it wouldn't be a stretch to defy another.

Having said that, unless there is proof that Logan can go without oxygen, there is no reason to assume he can. Asking to prove a negative is quite silly in this context.

So Logan cannot die. Seems like he should be evicted from all versus threads.

Quick question but when has comic Wolverine been established to not need air? I've been to various comic sites and this is the first time I've ever heard about this. Last I checked every Wolverine needed a breathing tube when he was in a tank of water during the Weapon X experiments.

Btw if it was established in the comics Wolverine Origins, it should be ignored since it seems like Marvel has ignored that comic too.

He needs air to breathe, I cant believe this is even being discussed.

Wolverine fanboys will tell you otherwise. Just check out the "can Wolverine die" thread somewhere over in the X-men forums.

There are numerous ways to kill him, including the sure-fire method of throwing him into the Sun, but even this is argued by the fanboys. So, the best thing to do is to ignore them.

I think Adamantium is, while RESISTANT to a lighsaber, will eventually melt if struck repeatedly with a lighsaber. So, RESISTANT, not INVULNERABLE to.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I think Adamantium is, while RESISTANT to a lighsaber, will eventually melt if struck repeatedly with a lighsaber. So, RESISTANT, not INVULNERABLE to. No.

Things hotter than a lightsaber have tried.

Comics at least. Movie dunno.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Logan cannot die. Seems like he should be evicted from all versus threads.

He's died in the comics and he's much more the bad-mother****er in those, so Jackerine can did.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So...This is all based on comic feats?

none of it is based on comic feats. i was basing it off feats from X2.

and youre avoiding the question. i said that otuside of the debate meaning unofficially and off the record, why do you think he needs air to survive in the movies when in the comcis he doesnt? burden of proof doesnt apply here because this doesnt have anything to do with the actual debate.

The obvious question, if he doesn't need oxygen to survive, why do we see him breathing in the films?

In Origins when he's in the water tank during the adamantium bonding process, he has a breathing aparatus.

He's even seen physically winded in Origins, after he escapes Stryker's lab and runs all the way naked to the farm, he's out of breath and breathing in very heavily, which implies his mucles and organs are low on O2 due to the massive exertion he just put his body through.

Originally posted by Robtard
The obvious question, if he doesn't need oxygen to survive, why do we see him breathing in the films?

the same reason he tries to dodge bullets even though he can heal from them? his body STILL takes damage from everything regular humans are damaged from. he just heals back. but that doesnt mean he doesnt feel the pain that comes with it.



they didnt know to what extent his healing factor worked. its not like they spent time trying to find ways to kill him before hand.



like i said he takes just as much damage as normal people do. he just heals from it. i never said he doesnt breathe i just said not breathing isnt going to kill him. thats like saying that because when he gets shot he bleeds he can die from being shot.

so my question still stands. if he is seen surviving in areas without oxegyn in the comics what happens in the movies that makes people think hes different?

Originally posted by WO Polaski
none of it is based on comic feats. i was basing it off feats from X2.

and youre avoiding the question. i said that otuside of the debate meaning unofficially and off the record, why do you think he needs air to survive in the movies when in the comcis he doesnt? burden of proof doesnt apply here because this doesnt have anything to do with the actual debate. Because it has not been proven that he can survive without air.

Comics and movies are different mediums and the abilities of the characters in comics do not always translate into the movies. As Juggernaut will gladly tell you.

Fact of the matter is, do I consider it a possibility that he can survive without air in the movies? Sure.

Am I going to apply that in an argument that is based on facts? Lol no.

It's speculation no matter how much you try to reason it, the movie versions are more often than not missing many traits of the comic characters, at least in terms of power, and their abilities are also usually lesser in scale.

It is an assumption that he can survive without air, just as it is an assumption he can survive the destruction of a major organ. Wolverine in the movies has only healed from wounds on the flesh, never anything such as a lung, his heart, or brain.

I will NOT assume that he can do any of the above when such things were never displayed in the movies, which we are discussing.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Because it has not been proven that he can survive without air.

Comics and movies are different mediums and the abilities of the characters in comics do not always translate into the movies. As Juggernaut will gladly tell you.

Fact of the matter is, do I consider it a possibility that he can survive without air in the movies? Sure.

Am I going to apply that in an argument that is based on facts? Lol no.

It's speculation no matter how much you try to reason it, the movie versions are more often than not missing many traits of the comic characters, at least in terms of power, and their abilities are also usually lesser in scale.

It is an assumption that he can survive without air, just as it is an assumption he can survive the destruction of a major organ. Wolverine in the movies has only healed from wounds on the flesh, never anything such as a lung, his heart, or brain.

I will NOT assume that he can do any of the above when such things were never displayed in the movies, which we are discussing.

youve yet to explain the logic behind your reasoning. as you yourself have said youre just making an assumption. my question to you is why do you assume that he needs air to survive in the movie even though he doesnt in the comics? what specifically leads you to think that? or are you simply being devils advocate?

Originally posted by WO Polaski
the same reason he tries to dodge bullets even though he can heal from them? his body STILL takes damage from everything regular humans are damaged from. he just heals back. but that doesnt mean he doesnt feel the pain that comes with it.

they didnt know to what extent his healing factor worked. its not like they spent time trying to find ways to kill him before hand.

like i said he takes just as much damage as normal people do. he just heals from it. i never said he doesnt breathe i just said not breathing isnt going to kill him. thats like saying that because when he gets shot he bleeds he can die from being shot.

so my question still stands. if he is seen surviving in areas without oxegyn in the comics what happens in the movies that makes people think hes different?

Actually, there are instances in both the comics and movies where he willfully takes bullets and or damage, relying on his HF to pull him through.

Or they did know, because Stryker refused to do it to Sabretooth, on the grounds he couldn't survive.

It stands to reason his healing factor still relies on basic body functions, oxygen and sustenance. He's needed to eat in the comics, one time he was stuck under a glacier, he survived by cutting off pieces of skin to feed himself.

Because he's a living being and he breathes and he's seen winded, that's why it stands to reason he needs to breathe. Can you show where he's survived with a complete lack of oxygen? He held his breath for an extended period of time when he faced Tiger Shark in the late 80's, but that isn't the same as going without oxygen indefinitely.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
youve yet to explain the logic behind your reasoning. as you yourself have said youre just making an assumption. my question to you is why do you assume that he needs air to survive in the movie even though he doesnt in the comics? what specifically leads you to think that? or are you simply being devils advocate? Making an assumption? Sorry hun, but I'm afraid that you are the one making the assumption. You are making the assumption that movie Wolverine can do something he cannot do. My logic is based on in the movies, he has not shown this abilities. Comics do not count as far as movie characters are concerned. Playing Devil's Advocate? Afraid not, my argument is the more logical. Facts are, Wolverine has not shown he can survive without air in the movies, why should we assume he can? Hulk in the comics can support a 15,000,000,000 ton or so mountain on his back, should I assume that he can do it in the 2008 movie? I am basing my argument on facts, you are speculating that he has a trait in the movie that he only has shown to possess in the comics.

Assumption: Wolverine can survive without air in the movies because he could in the comics.

Fact: Wolverine has never shown to survive without air in the movies.

Comics are irrelevant.

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, there are instances in both the comics and movies where he willfully takes bullets and or damage, relying on his HF to pull him through.

i knew you were going to break this up cause i would have if i was on your side of the table.

but him occasionally jumping in front of the gun in order to gain an edge is different from willfully going against one of the strongest impulses in your entire body and half-suffocating 24/7.



stryker did NOT know that logans healing factor was strong enough to get him through it. he DID know that his hf is superior to creeds. hence why when wolverine stopped breathing everyone was like "****". it was an experiment.



why do you think he'd need those but not blood?



*shrug* who knows maybe theres something specific about the energy he gains from food. i dont know. but i do know that while that scan talks about food he has been shown in space and with every cell on his body ripped off, and hes been seen without blood period without substantial amounts of time. without any blood at all there is no oxygen so no organs could survive anyway. hes also survived having bullets lodged into his brain and has had his heart removed... meaning he can live without functioning major organs. so if they die why would he care?



human beings also need blood and their vital organs intact to survive but apparently he doesnt.



hes been dead on two occasions within the movies to my knowledge. if hes dead that means hes not breathing... but he lives anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Making an assumption? Sorry hun, but I'm afraid that you are the one making the assumption.




considering a possibility is making an assumption...




he hasnt been shown to die of suffocation either so why do you assume he can? whats your reasoning for thinking so?




the hulk has been shown in the movie to not be able to do that so assuming he could wouldnt make much sense.








he hasnt been shown to be able to die of suffocation either so theres my fact. one fact such as that, that absence of proof is proof of absence, doesnt work by itself unless youre playing the role of a devils advocate.

People have died (cardiac arrest) and come back, because your blood carries oxygen and holds it for a period of time.That is far different than him being in an environment completely lacking breathable oxygen (eg underwater, space) and surviving.

There is really nothing in the movies that shows he could go indefinitely without it, quite the opposite actually. Stands to reason his HF needs this to function, food too, as he eats and drinks.

When in the comics has he survived a complete lack of oxygen? I'm curious to this one, as I can't recall it ever happening.

Edit: I do recall him being near death due to losing a large portion of his blood and being saved by some Deadpool-looking human agent, he was chained to a wall in a lab, being experimented on and that DP-looking guy saved him by giving him blood and adrenaline, to kickstart his HF to full speed. This was in the late 80's, early 90's. It's vague, but I do recall those comic cells.

Originally posted by Robtard
People have died and come back, because your blood carries oxygen and holds it for a period of time.That is far different than him being in an environment completely lacking breathable oxygen (eg underwater, space) and surviving.

how long does it do this though? and if its not circulating why would that matter? the oxegyns just sitting there wasting away isnt it? i dont know anything about anatomy really so i dont actually know.



id agree that if vader force choked him for all of eternity he could stay dead.




aside from being in space and having every cell on his body incinerated? do you mean indefinitely?

Originally posted by WO Polaski
considering a possibility is making an assumption...

he hasnt been shown to die of suffocation either so why do you assume he can? whats your reasoning for thinking so?

the hulk has been shown in the movie to not be able to do that so assuming he could wouldnt make much sense.

he hasnt been shown to be able to die of suffocation either so theres my fact. one fact such as that, that absence of proof is proof of absence, doesnt work by itself youre playing the role of a devils advocate. 1. "something taken for granted: something that is believed to be true without proof"

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861587326/assumption.html

I acknowledge that it is possible. The same way I acknowledge that Lord Xenu trapped Thetons into my body(or whatever Scientologists believe) is possible. Doesn't mean I believe it to be true. Acknowledging a possibility is not making an assumption.

2. Bad logic.

Using that logic, can I assume that Cyclops can take a bullet to the face because he has never been proven not able to take one?

The answer is no.

Please see the Burden of Proof fallacy for more details.

3. Okay, let me bring up another example.

Comic Juggernaut has a force field he can summon at will. Should I assume movie Juggernaut can?

4. See Burden of Proof fallacy.

You assert he can survive without oxygen.

I assert he cannot.

You are making the positive claim, burden of proof is on you, I do not have to prove a negative.

I have never shown that I can die from a Hydrogen Bomb going off in my face.

Guess I can survive that huh?

Originally posted by WO Polaski
how long does it do this though? and if its not circulating why would that matter? the oxegyns just sitting there wasting away isnt it? i dont know anything about anatomy really so i dont actually know.

id agree that if vader force choked him for all of eternity he could stay dead.

aside from being in space and having every cell on his body incinerated? do you mean indefinitely?

Either you've changed your argument or I'm missing something. Are you saying he'd die if you keep him underwater but his HF would/could kick back in if was taken out before every cell rotted? Because that could be a possibility, but from a movie standpoint, it's speculation.

I don't recall him being in space, I assume he died and then reanimated once he was taken out of it? Did he also have help in some fashion to kickstart his HF?

I don't think he was completely disintegrated, his bones and probably brain survived due to the adamantium protecting them, iirc. I think those remaining cells reconstructed him, and there was oxygen around him where his cells could have taken in and used.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. "something taken for granted: something that is believed to be true without proof"

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861587326/assumption.html

you dont have any proof. you have a fact that he hasnt done something. thats not proof that he cant do something. if you tried to use that as proof in a court of law theyd laugh at you.





the fact that you keep bringing up debating mannerisms and not answering my question leads me to believe that you care more about winning the debate for the sake of winning a debate then you actually believe that he cant survive without oxegyn... which would mean that youre playing devils advocate. so, i concede the debate; youve won. now burden of proof and logical fallacies and all things of that nature no longer apply here.

so with that being said and done; explain to me your reasoning for thinking wolverine can not survive without oxygen even though in the comics he can. if you say "because he was never shown to do so in the movies" then you also think that he cant whistle nor do jumping jacks because he was never shown to be able to do so in the movies.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
you dont have any proof. you have a fact that he hasnt done something. thats not proof that he cant do something. if you tried to use that as proof in a court of law theyd laugh at you.





the fact that you keep bringing up debating mannerisms and not answering my question leads me to believe that you care more about winning the debate for the sake of winning a debate then you actually believe that he cant survive without oxegyn... which would mean that youre playing devils advocate. so, i concede the debate; youve won. now burden of proof and logical fallacies and all things of that nature no longer apply here.

so with that being said and done; explain to me your reasoning for thinking wolverine can not survive without oxygen even though in the comics he can. if you say "because he was never shown to do so in the movies" then you also think that he cant whistle nor do jumping jacks because he was never shown to be able to do so in the movies. 1. I guess it's a good thing this is not a court of law huh? So basically your notion is that absence of proof is not proof of absence, right? And on the subject of law, if you were to assert that someone did something on the basis that you cannot prove he didn't...Innocent until proven guilty hun.

2. Logical fallacies still apply, even when not in a debate. When I look at something, I consider the possibilities and whichever one I find more logical is what I believe.

In the comics he has shown to, yes.

In the movies, it was never so much as implied he could.

Whistling and jumping jacks are things every human with the proper physical capabilities can potentially do. That is the difference.

Being able to live without air is not. Nor is it even one of Wolverine's well-known attributes.

I consider it a possibility, not a fact, and I will not treat it as such.

Are my views really that hard to understand? I am not saying it is definately untrue, only that logically, we should not assume he is.

Damn, still with this shit?

How come whenever a thread is made with Wolverine in it people start this. Dude isn't a god. He can die. A hail of blasters would rip him.

There are 16 other members of the team not to mention a swarm of mediocre Jedi. He doesn't have to solo this, and it's not like he could have a chance in hell of doing it.

The **** are a bunch of Clone Troopers going to stop the Terminators?

Shit man, only a Lightsaber could take them out. And Vader can't take all of them down at once.

The Jedi temple remains safe and standing.

Originally posted by Quincy
The **** are a bunch of Clone Troopers going to stop the Terminators?

Shit man, only a Lightsaber could take them out. And Vader can't take all of them down at once.

Vader doesn't have to, he is more for the Jedi. And the clones are GREAT soildiers. Have you seen any of the old Clone Wars episodes that premiered before ROTS came out. Especially the ARC troopers. There weapons vary. The blasters aren't plasma but they would do some damage to Terminators. Vader can easily stop bullets.

Lightsabers would pretty much destroy Terminators or cut right through them at least.........not that that would stop them.