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YuLaw (Jet Li, "The One", versus Neo.

YuLaw is travelling from one universe to the other, in pursuit of Gabe Law. Somehow he ends up in the Matrix and encounters Neo. Neo reads YuLaw as an agent, and decides to fight him.

YuLaw, frustrated at missing yet another chance at killing Gabe Law, decides to accept Neo's challenge.

The fight takes place, as I said, in the Matrix, where Neo fought the multiple Agent Smith's in "Reloaded."

YuLaw is at full strength, as is Neo. Neo, in order to make this fight fair, can use only his speed and martial arts skills. No flying, no bullet stopping, none of his uberness, just h2h combat. To the death.

Damn dude. We both shitted out a thread at the same time.

Have you seen the new Potter?

Oh and Neo wins handily.

Neo wins handily? Have you seen The One?

Yes and I regret it too.

Neo is faster, stronger, and fought way more skilled people.

Here is YuLaw in his best scenes:

7fmadN9k8xw


Dude can run FIFTY m.p.h., man. Has Neo ever shown the type of strength that YuLaw showed at 1:59?

Irrelevant. If he retains his basic Matrix powers he has no limits but his imagination and conscience. Agents have shown similar strength showings and we know for a fact Neo>>>Agents.


God that movie is truly horrendous in that everything looks fake.

Neo, in this thread, has his speed, strength and martial arts skills, that's all.

Look at the scene where YuLaw pwns those cops, his speed is insane, as is his strength. He dodges bullets!!! Literally dodges them.

Neo does the same thing only against real opponents.

Seriously that movie looks so fake in some of those scenes it's sickening. Only half-way decent part is the climax fight scene.

Real opponents? You mean living, breathing beings?

No. Superhumans, Vampires, Agents, etc.

And YuLaw did the same against Gabe. You cant seriously look at both movies and say Neo is faster and stronger. What has Neo done to match YuLaw lifting two motorcycles and using them as weapons? When has Neo ever ran fifty mph?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here is YuLaw in his best scenes:

7fmadN9k8xw


Dude can run FIFTY m.p.h., man. Has Neo ever shown the type of strength that YuLaw showed at 1:59?


doesn't matter, Neo can fly. We've never seen Neo display running speed because he never needed to run because he can fly. His flying speed was off the chart. The same can be said about his strength. Neo never had to lift cars because his physical strength was always enough to down his enemies. He never needed additional force.

Neo cannot fly in this thread.

i know but if he can fly as fast as he can why can't he run just as fast

Why? Cuz he isn't shown doing so.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And YuLaw did the same against Gabe. You cant seriously look at both movies and say Neo is faster and stronger. What has Neo done to match YuLaw lifting two motorcycles and using them as weapons? When has Neo ever ran fifty mph?

Bit silly to say that he can't use his flying and then use that as an argument that he can't run 50mph...Why would he run 50mph when he can fly faster than sound?

Anyway. Given that Neo rarely does strength feats directly then you have to measure his power indirectly.

Smith punches through concrete walls with relative ease. Another agent (Johnson i think)ripped the roof off a car with no effort whatsoever. The same agent jumped onto the front of a car and completely smashed the engine in causing it to flip.

Neo makes short work of agents with almost no effort.

Punching holes in concrete, lifting up two motorcycles and using them as weapons.........which is more impressive?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Punching holes in concrete, lifting up two motorcycles and using them as weapons.........which is more impressive?

Yeah so an agent who can't punch holes through over a foot of concrete yet neo manages to destroy him with one hand without even looking at him. He also dispatched 3 agents with the abilities I mentioned above whilst barely breaking a sweat.

You only need to look at the last fight in revolutions to see the levels of power they are generating. Punches with enough power to throw each other back hundreds of feet and then smash the road surface when landing. Impacts generating enough energy to blast out every window in the surrounding buildings. Throwing each other with enough power to smash each other through concreate walls.

Then there was the final impact that Neo survived. Smith smashing him into the ground at a speed fast enough to generate enough energy to cause a crater 15 feet deep and create a shock wave that travelled several city blocks and seriously damaged concrete buildings and threw cars large distances.

Yes, but this was due greatly to the momentum they had while flying. Neo doesn't have that momentum here. It's strictly his martial arts skills, speed and strength versus YuLaw. If we give Neo all his powers, YuLaw is his *****.

Let me clarify a bit on Neo here. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Neo can use only the speed, strength and martial arts skills that he displayed in the multiple Smith fight in Reloaded. Minus flight, of course.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


Let me clarify a bit on Neo here. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Neo can use only the speed, strength and martial arts skills that he displayed in the multiple Smith fight in Reloaded. Minus flight, of course.

That'll be the fight in which he sent numerous Smiths (all of which are more powerful than standard upgraded agents and vastly more powerful than normal humans) flying to all corners of the square they were fighting in as well as, when being crushed by them, sent about 20 of them flying with power alone.



You're missing my point, which is that that level of kinetic energy, despite its effects on the surroundings, did very little damage to Neo. Hence anything that Yulaw is going to throw out is going to cause even less so.

So you think YuLaw wont be able to hurt Neo?

I think that smashing Neo with a motorbike isn't going be the same as smashing a cop with a motorbike.

YuLaw hits a cop with a motorbike with enough force to throw him across the street and bounce off a flimsy shutter. Neo punches Smith (a far more powerful adversary than a cop) with enough force to throw him 100ft and smash into the ground with enough force as to cause massive damage to the road.

YuLaw fights 5 or 6 cops and kicks them around. Neo fights hundreds of Smiths and throws, kicks and punches them all over the areas they're fighting in.

But the laws of physics are altered in the Matrix, right? A punch that would normally send a man flying a few feet back can potentially send him flying much further?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the laws of physics are altered in the Matrix, right? A punch that would normally send a man flying a few feet back can potentially send him flying much further?

No.

Afraid I'll need more than a simple no, explain?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Afraid I'll need more than a simple no, explain?

Why? It's made perfectly clear that the matrix is designed to mimic real world physics and those people in it are bound to those rules. Even agents are bound to those rules but are simply written as stronger and faster than so called "bluepills"

Your extrapolation of Neo and other rebels being able to bend the rules doesn't apply to how a bluepill would react in the matrix. It's only the ability of the rebel to bend to rules to exert more force that is different.

An example being how Trinity manages to kick a cop with enough force to throw him across the room and smash into a wall. It's not his reaction that is a bending of the laws of physics...It's Trinity bending the laws to exert more power.

Your point is trying to make it seem like it's the other way around. That the punch has the same force but it is the reaction to that force that is somehow altered.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But the laws of physics are altered in the Matrix, right? A punch that would normally send a man flying a few feet back can potentially send him flying much further? The Red Pill's are able to alter the laws of physics if they do not believe there is any restrictions. "There is no spoon." Neo is able to do things even Agents can't do because he's the one.

Blue pills on the other hand(which is what YuLaw would be) cannot do these things because they are completely sold that the Matrix is a regular world.

For example, just because Morpheus can jump 20 feet high does not mean YuLaw will be able to. If your the fastet runner on Earth it doesn't mean you'll become even faster in the Matrix. You may very well become slower.

Ok fine Neo pwns here haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why? Cuz he isn't shown doing so.

i imagine that flying fast enough pull a cloud of rubble behind you would be much harder than running as fast as an automobile. I dont think running speed matters much at all in this fight though

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
i imagine that flying fast enough pull a cloud of rubble behind you would be much harder than running as fast as an automobile. I dont think running speed matters much at all in this fight though



Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ok fine Neo pwns here haermm

Actually, Yu Law would probably win.

I actually agree with that, but no use going on about it.

The fact that you put this fight in the matrix makes it spite. I love YuLaw, but anything in the Matrix Neo automatically wins.

Actually I started the thread thinking YuLaw would win.

Originally posted by Kaibs
The fact that you put this fight in the matrix makes it spite. I love YuLaw, but anything in the Matrix Neo automatically wins.

How?

So would he automatically beat Dr Manhattan for example?

Again with the Matrix threads.

When is Impediment going to reinstate the rules of no Matrix characters?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Again with the Matrix threads.

When is Impediment going to reinstate the rules of no Matrix characters?

-AC

He won't?

As far as I can tell, out of all the members discussing Matrix characters, only you have a problem with it (maybe one or two disciples).

Impediment agreed with me multiple times, he mods the forum.

If he agrees with the fact that these drawn out, hyperbolic, gimpy-spite threads are pointless, then he should outlaw them.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Impediment agreed with me multiple times, he mods the forum.

If he agrees with the fact that these drawn out, hyperbolic, gimpy-spite threads are pointless, then he should outlaw them.

-AC

So even though no one else really has a problem with Matrix debates you'd go out of your way just to get your way?

Originally posted by Placidity
So even though no one else really has a problem with Matrix debates you'd go out of your way just to get your way? Mhm.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm.

No, you see. He directed the question AT me, regarding me. Not you. Shh.

To answer your question, Placid: it's not "out" of my way. It's not a great effort.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, you see. He directed the question AT me, regarding me. Not you. Shh.

To answer your question, Placid: it's not "out" of my way. It's not a great effort.

-AC Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, you see. He directed the question AT me, regarding me. Not you. Shh.

To answer your question, Placid: it's not "out" of my way. It's not a great effort.

-AC

You realize no one has a problem with it and you'd just be being a Nazi? Kinda like the Grinch who stole Christmas?

I don't think Imped would close/outlaw it anyway. This thread has had rational arguments from both sides.

Originally posted by Placidity
You realize no one has a problem with it and you'd just be being a Nazi? Kinda like the Grinch who stole Christmas?

I don't think Imped would close/outlaw it anyway. This thread has had rational arguments from both sides.

Oh yeah, wah.

It hasn't, it's had insistent and persistent arguments.

If someone's in the Matrix, it's a gimping. If Neo's out of it, it might as well be a normal man. Stupid source for Vs fights.

-AC

Mhm Mhm and Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh yeah, wah.

It hasn't, it's had insistent and persistent arguments.

If someone's in the Matrix, it's a gimping. If Neo's out of it, it might as well be a normal man. Stupid source for Vs fights.

-AC

Why is it gimping? Why can't they retain their full powers like they did in their universe?

Because it's not real reality, and in the case of Neo, he's all powerful. He's essentially God there.

So at the very least, stop using Neo.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because it's not real reality, and in the case of Neo, he's all powerful. He's essentially God there.

No he's not.

He is shown quite specifically to NOT be all powerful. If you missed that, then you are staining the Matrix films by even talking about them.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So at the very least, stop using Neo.

-AC


No. A "Matrix" (universe) can be devised to allow each character to retain their full powers. This is using the imagination.



Even outside the Matrix, Neo still knows a shit load of martial arts and other things.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because it's not real reality, and in the case of Neo, he's all powerful. He's essentially God there.

So at the very least, stop using Neo.

-AC

He isn't anywhere near God levels even in the Matrix. If he were, he wouldn't have to fight the Agents, or the Frenchmen's henchmen, and certainly would not have been cut by a blade.

Why does he even engage in H2H combat?

Neo isn't omnipotent, far from it. He can bend some rules of reality in the Matrix, but he has clearly shown limits.

Manhattan is someone much closer to God (but still so far...).

Gods do not bleed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No he's not.

He is shown quite specifically to NOT be all powerful. If you missed that, then you are staining the Matrix films by even talking about them.

I'll deal with this when I reply to Placidity, as it's a similar reply.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No. A "Matrix" (universe) can be devised to allow each character to retain their full powers. This is using the imagination.

Yeah! Welcome to my point about how creating needless and non-existent hyperbole for the single purpose of having a debate is stupid.

On the show tonight, Dadudemon and RJ. Also on the show next week, week after, week after (It's gonna take a lot of explaining).

Not really. I know how you do things, Dudemon. Not wasting my time. Been there, done it.

Originally posted by Placidity
He isn't anywhere near God levels even in the Matrix. If he were, he wouldn't have to fight the Agents, or the Frenchmen's henchmen, and certainly would not have been cut by a blade.

Why does he even engage in H2H combat?

Neo isn't omnipotent, far from it. He can bend some rules of reality in the Matrix, but he has clearly shown limits.

Manhattan is someone much closer to God (but still so far...).

Because otherwise there'd be no movie. Obviously.

If he wanted to, he could kill them. Then there'd be no hour long fight scene backed by opera.

Use your loaf.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Because otherwise there'd be no movie. Obviously.

If he wanted to, he could kill them. Then there'd be no hour long fight scene backed by opera.

Use your loaf.

-AC

That's purely your opinion. In the whole trilogy, Neo has ALWAYS shown limits. Nowhere could he just "will" people to non-existance (or other uber stuff you might be suggesting) just because he is "the One".

If you choose to adopt your view, thats fine, but I don't see anything that supports it so far.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhahahaaha!!!! ****ing laughable!!!

Shh, Pete.

Adults speaking.

Originally posted by Placidity
That's purely your opinion. In the whole trilogy, Neo has ALWAYS shown limits. Nowhere could he just "will" people to non-existance (or other uber stuff you might be suggesting) just because he is "the One".

If you choose to adopt your view, thats fine, but I don't see anything that supports it so far.

Because then there'd be no movie, would there? Simple.

"I wish all the agents gone.", done. No movie.

-AC

Yes, Mother.

I say Neo wins from spite simply because like stated earlier... it's the matrix, and in the matrix Neo is the one. He can simply alter the matrix code if he chooses to and make Jude a normal man with no fighting ability. He "faught" the henchman because the matrix has "rouge" coding and some within it like the Frenchman are apart of it. Neo may not be "god" in the matrix but hes damn close to it. To say he cant do this or that in it is an understatement. He can do pretty much anything he generally wants in it.

Originally posted by Kaibs
I say Neo wins from spite simply because like stated earlier... it's the matrix, and in the matrix Neo is the one. He can simply alter the matrix code if he chooses to and make Jude a normal man with no fighting ability. He "faught" the henchman because the matrix has "rouge" coding and some within it like the Frenchman are apart of it. Neo may not be "god" in the matrix but hes damn close to it. To say he cant do this or that in it is an understatement. He can do pretty much anything he generally wants in it.

Yeah, maybe. But one very minor piece of detail you forgot when thinking that up - None of that is shown, implied or supported in anyway in the film.

Originally posted by Kaibs
I say Neo wins from spite simply because like stated earlier... it's the matrix, and in the matrix Neo is the one. He can simply alter the matrix code if he chooses to and make Jude a normal man with no fighting ability. He "faught" the henchman because the matrix has "rouge" coding and some within it like the Frenchman are apart of it. Neo may not be "god" in the matrix but hes damn close to it. To say he cant do this or that in it is an understatement. He can do pretty much anything he generally wants in it. This is why we handicap Neo, make the fight more fair.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is why we handicap Neo, make the fight more fair.

Why not just think of another fight, not including someone you have to gimp?

Why is this logic not sinking in?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why not just think of another fight, not including someone you have to gimp?

Why is this logic not sinking in?

-AC Why not just ignore the thread if you dont like it, instead of busting in and bitching and moaning about it? You are the only one doing so, you know. You trying to tell us we are ALL wrong and you are right? I agree with you on Matrix characters in threads, you know that, but you dont see me whining like a little *****.

Right here, forum rules:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t478590.html

7) When the thread starter makes a new thread, it is very important to cement the conditions of the scenario in the first few posts. This is to avoid confusion and frustration among the other posters. It will not be acceptable for the thread starter to randomly change the conditions of the thread at random intervals. Once the settings/weapons/gear/handicaps/abilities/etc have been cemented in the first few posts of the thread, that is how they will stay. Therefore, be very sure and for certain of how you want your thread to be constructed.


Deal with it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why not just ignore the thread if you dont like it, instead of busting in and bitching and moaning about it? You are the only one doing so, you know. You trying to tell us we are ALL wrong and you are right? I agree with you on Matrix characters in threads, you know that, but you dont see me whining like a little *****.

I'm voicing my opinion.

YOU are currently whining like a little *****, but what else is new? Nothing.

Anyway, the rules, yes? So what? It's still stupid. My argument was that the rules were stupid and should be changed, since handicaps are dumb.

-AC

Am I the one who came in here complaining left and right? Nope, it was you.

Dumb? haermm Is that it? That's your reason?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Am I the one who came in here complaining left and right? Nope, it was you.

Dumb? haermm Is that it? That's your reason?

You're a grown man who takes over-dramatic issue with any complaint I civilly voice. You whine, you over-post smileys, you post irrelevant YouTube vids. If it doesn't bother YOU, then YOU stay out of it. Nobody else has had as much issue with me complaining as you have.

Who is the real whiney ***** here? Let's be real. You said "Deal with it". I accept what the rules are, I just disagree with a few and think they're stupid for reasons I've stated. Heed your own advice, Pete.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're a grown man who takes over-dramatic issue with any complaint I civilly voice. You whine, you over-post smileys, you post irrelevant YouTube vids. If it doesn't bother YOU, then YOU stay out of it. Nobody else has had as much issue with me complaining as you have.

Who is the real whiney ***** here? Let's be real. You said "Deal with it". I accept what the rules are, I just disagree with a few and think they're stupid for reasons I've stated. Heed your own advice, Pete.

-AC You got it all wrong, Homey, it amuses me. Not in a genuinely funny fashion like George Carlin, but more like when you see a spider in the toilet struggling to get out, and for a second or two you actually are pulling for it to get out, then eventually you flush it, Cuz it's a spider and stuff.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah! Welcome to my point about how creating needless and non-existent hyperbole for the single purpose of having a debate is stupid.

On the show tonight, Dadudemon and RJ. Also on the show next week, week after, week after (It's gonna take a lot of explaining).

Not really. I know how you do things, Dudemon. Not wasting my time. Been there, done it.


No matter how pissy you get, I still love you.

And, you know better than to contradict me about something like this because you know you would be pwndied. (pwned so hard, you dieded.)

I am serious, though, there's no reason an alternate Matrix could be created to allow all powers from each character. In fact, that's pretty much what would be required for any of these matchups to work.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because otherwise there'd be no movie. Obviously.

If he wanted to, he could kill them. Then there'd be no hour long fight scene backed by opera.

Use your loaf.

-AC


Like I said, you don't understand the Matrix movies if you believe that.

You seem to have missed the entire point of The One.

pewpy pwndied?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You got it all wrong, Homey, it amuses me. Not in a genuinely funny fashion like George Carlin, but more like when you see a spider in the toilet struggling to get out, and for a second or two you actually are pulling for it to get out, then eventually you flush it, Cuz it's a spider and stuff.

That is precisely why when anyone replies to me with any more ability than you (Which is always), you cheer them on and present your quivering rabbit hole for them in gratitude.

Dadudemon specifically. Whether he takes you up on that, I don't know. Last I checked he was into girls.

Joking aside, don't you ever tire of sitting around in threads, leeching opinions of people you like rather than forming your own? You know, contributing knowledge rather than commenting on the actions of everyone else. That seems to be your limit in debate, comment on what's going on, but don't give an opinion.

Still, you're alright, Pete. You'll post a smiley or a "Oh! I got you!" style reply, and we'll all be fine again.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No matter how pissy you get, I still love you.

And, you know better than to contradict me about something like this because you know you would be pwndied. (pwned so hard, you dieded.)

I am serious, though, there's no reason an alternate Matrix could be created to allow all powers from each character. In fact, that's pretty much what would be required for any of these matchups to work.

How old are you? Honest question. Do you ever re-read your posts and think "This is no way for a man my age to be acting."? I would be so ashamed.

Let me explain it to you again; creating a "new" Matrix just so a debate can be had is precisely the right example of why USING Matrix characters, or at least Neo, is stupid. If you have to go to those lengths to have the debate, maybe those characters aren't suitable.

I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Like I said, you don't understand the Matrix movies if you believe that.

You seem to have missed the entire point of The One.

If you understood my point, you wouldn't have said what you did above.

That's a fact.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That is precisely why when anyone replies to me with any more ability than you (Which is always), you cheer them on and present your quivering rabbit hole for them in gratitude.

Dadudemon specifically. Whether he takes you up on that, I don't know. Last I checked he was into girls.

Joking aside, don't you ever tire of sitting around in threads, leeching opinions of people you like rather than forming your own? You know, contributing knowledge rather than commenting on the actions of everyone else. That seems to be your limit in debate, comment on what's going on, but don't give an opinion.





-AC

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/elv2.jpg

Lookie, BEWBZ.

As for the rest of your babble:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/2-1.jpg

Neo wins.

Edit: Easily too.

Dude, doncha get it? The entire thread is null and void now, all Matrix versus threads are finished now, because AC doesn't like them.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/2-1.jpghttp://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/2-1.jpghttp://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/2-1.jpg

Okay, Neo still wins though, has spades of power over the Asian.

Didnt read the OP, didja?

Neo wins.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Didnt read the OP, didja?

I did, Neo wins. Neo's a master of every martial arts form, while Yu Law is just Chinese.

Originally posted by Robtard
I did, Neo wins. Neo's a master of every martial arts form, while Yu Law is just Chinese. Just Chinese with the strength and speed of 123 men.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Just Chinese with the strength and speed of 123 men.

Wait, so you gimped just Neo all the way, ie he's just a human with extensive martial arts knowledge and you put him up against a super-human?

Why bother then? I've told you a hundred times already, when you start gimping, any outcome can be reached, lacks all objectivity.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That is precisely why when anyone replies to me with any more ability than you (Which is always), you cheer them on and present your quivering rabbit hole for them in gratitude.

Dadudemon specifically. Whether he takes you up on that, I don't know. Last I checked he was into girls.

Joking aside, don't you ever tire of sitting around in threads, leeching opinions of people you like rather than forming your own? You know, contributing knowledge rather than commenting on the actions of everyone else. That seems to be your limit in debate, comment on what's going on, but don't give an opinion.

Still, you're alright, Pete. You'll post a smiley or a "Oh! I got you!" style reply, and we'll all be fine again.

You'd be surprised at how much RJ and I argue about this B.S. in IM and on the phone. Fact: RJ has a shit ton more opinions about these versus threads than most other posters.

Sometimes, his logic is impeccable, sometimes, it is easily destroyed. That's how it is in these parts.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How old are you? Honest question. Do you ever re-read your posts and think "This is no way for a man my age to be acting."? I would be so ashamed.

26

No, I never think that, because it's not true, even in the slightest. However, what is true: You are every bit as immature as anyone else. Just so you know, saying "I lurv boooobiez!" is not the only way to be immature.

You'd only be ashamed because you weren't relaxing and letting loose like I do...you'd know that for all these years, being uptight on the internets is no way to have fun.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let me explain it to you again; creating a "new" Matrix just so a debate can be had is precisely the right example of why USING Matrix characters, or at least Neo, is stupid. If you have to go to those lengths to have the debate, maybe those characters aren't suitable.

It is the EXACT opposite.

Creating a matrix which endows all participants powers is the PERFECT way to have a debate with Matrix characters.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

I know. I've already explained to you why you are close minded on this, already. This happened about a year ago when we had the Neo versus EU Luke Skywalker.


Do you even remember that conversation?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you understood my point, you wouldn't have said what you did above.

That's a fact.

-AC

If you would have understood my point, you wouldn't be saying that I didn't understand your point.

That's a fact.







So, let's recap:


AC - NUH UUUUH! You can't pretend there's a matrix where everyone has their powers!

DDM - Uh. Yes we can. We did. And we are.

AC - Neo is teh GODZ!11!!1!!

DDM and everyone else - No. You are bastardizing The One with your fanboyism. Knock it off.

AC - You didn't understand mai points! Gay buttsex jokes, etc!

DDM - Ugh. Sigh. GTFO newb.

He's almost 40, Mon.

He can reply to his own posts. Cut the umbilical cord.

There's a difference between being mature and being uptight. You think that because I don't go around acting like a mentally handicapped individual, shouting out things that immature schoolboys do, that I'm somehow devoid of fun. That's your problem. That's what you and RJ do, see. To help yourself sleep with the fact that you act the way you do, you act like everyone else is being uptight and you two are the "fun" ones. There's no harm in embracing your inner silliness of humour if that works, but there comes a time (Like when you're 39) that you have to recognise that acting like a child isn't cool.

It's understandable, I just don't see why you'd do that.

You don't understand my point regarding the Matrix, and that's fine. As for the old thread, yeah. I'm closed-minded because I thought books should be kept out of a movie discussion forum. Shockingly mental.

Come back to me when you're ready to act your age, man. Any further replies will be deal with in PMs. Dadudemon loses interest in 3...2...1...

Originally posted by Robtard
Wait, so you gimped just Neo all the way, ie he's just a human with extensive martial arts knowledge and you put him up against a super-human?

Why bother then? I've told you a hundred times already, when you start gimping, any outcome can be reached, lacks all objectivity.

I've been barking up that tree for ages, he doesn't get it.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
Wait, so you gimped just Neo all the way, ie he's just a human with extensive martial arts knowledge and you put him up against a super-human?

Why bother then? I've told you a hundred times already, when you start gimping, any outcome can be reached, lacks all objectivity. Lacks objectivity? There's no gimping here, tell me, what's wrong with handicapping one combatant so that an inferior combatant is on on even field with them? Neo with all his powers pwns YuLaw without breaking a sweat, we all know that. Makes it more interesting if Neo can rely on this or that instead of all his shit.

And if you dont like the subject of a thread, then just dont post.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lacks objectivity? There's no gimping here, tell me, what's wrong with handicapping one combatant so that an inferior combatant is on on even field with them? Neo with all his powers pwns YuLaw without breaking a sweat, we all know that. Makes it more interesting if Neo can rely on this or that instead of all his shit.

And if you dont like the subject of a thread, then just dont post.

Because then what's the point? It's not Neo Vs YuLaw is it? Anyone can fight anyone if you give or take abilities away.

If you don't like the subject of posts, don't reply.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He's almost 40, Mon.

He can reply to his own posts. Cut the umbilical cord.

There's a difference between being mature and being uptight. You think that because I don't go around acting like a mentally handicapped individual, shouting out things that immature schoolboys do, that I'm somehow devoid of fun. That's your problem. That's what you and RJ do, see. To help yourself sleep with the fact that you act the way you do, you act like everyone else is being uptight and you two are the "fun" ones. There's no harm in embracing your inner silliness of humour if that works, but there comes a time (Like when you're 39) that you have to recognise that acting like a child isn't cool.

It's understandable, I just don't see why you'd do that.

You don't understand my point regarding the Matrix, and that's fine. As for the old thread, yeah. I'm closed-minded because I thought books should be kept out of a movie discussion forum. Shockingly mental.

Come back to me when you're ready to act your age, man. Any further replies will be deal with in PMs. Dadudemon loses interest in 3...2...1...



I've been barking up that tree for ages, he doesn't get it.

-AC


I started to do this:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/2-1.jpg

But then this happened:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/198379945_0349cf9bfa.jpg



Then I woke up and read what you said and did this:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/jedibeastie/ash/ash6-1.jpg

But hey, it's aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall good


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because then what's the point? It's not Neo Vs YuLaw is it? Anyone can fight anyone if you give or take abilities away.

If you don't like the subject of posts, don't reply.

-AC

It's still Neo, just an altered version of Neo, to make the fight fair. It's like a point spread on a sporting bet, why do you think that is allowed? Survey says.......................One team at full strength is better than the other.

Right back atcha, if you don't like the subject of posts, dont reply.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's still Neo, just an altered version of Neo, to make the fight fair. It's like a point spread on a sporting bet, why do you think that is allowed? Survey says.......................One team at full strength is better than the other.

Right back atcha, if you don't like the subject of posts, dont reply.

If the fight isn't fair, clearly they're incompatible.

Hence the point.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If the fight isn't fair, clearly they're incompatible.

Hence the point.

-AC This is why we make the fight fair. This is why it is a rule here in the MVF.

You dont like the rules, boohoo, I guess we should all just call in sick tomorrow to work and spend the whole day trying to atone for causing your emo butthurt.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He's almost 40, Mon.

He can reply to his own posts. Cut the umbilical cord.

You referred to me multiple times in his post.

Cut the crap....and stop playing with it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's a difference between being mature and being uptight. You think that because I don't go around acting like a mentally handicapped individual, shouting out things that immature schoolboys do, that I'm somehow devoid of fun.

No. You got that wrong.


It's because you go around acting like a shit storm of piss and vinegar, always thinking that you can berate and patronize every single poster you come across. That makes you immature.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's your problem.

No, it's KMC's problem.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's what you and RJ do, see.

My posts consist of very little immaturity.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To help yourself sleep

I have sex with the wife. The end.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
with the fact that you act the way you do, you act like everyone else is being uptight...

Nope. That's deliberately false, on your part. It's almost always you, sir.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's no harm in embracing your inner silliness of humour if that works, but there comes a time (Like when you're 39) that you have to recognise that acting like a child isn't cool.

This is retarded. You are clueless on what one is supposed to act like. If I want to know how to be a jerk on the internet, I'll ask for your advice.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's understandable, I just don't see why you'd do that.

20 serious posts and 1 goofy post. Yeah. WEIRD, man.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't understand my point regarding the Matrix, and that's fine. As for the old thread, yeah. I'm closed-minded because I thought books should be kept out of a movie discussion forum. Shockingly mental.


1. No, you want me to use your bastardized interpretation of The One and the matrix and it is you who does not understand my post.

2. Imp. gave us permission to use EU Luke. No matter how much of a fit you throw, he's the mod around these parts and he allowed it. End of.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Come back to me when you're ready to act your age, man. Any further replies will be deal with in PMs. Dadudemon loses interest in 3...2...1...

I said one silly thing, and the silliness was questionable. Sorry, you painting me as silly is an extremely failed attempt. Even if my points are presented in a silly way, it doesn't mean the points are wrong.

And any replies you send to me via PM will be replied to here, as long as it is on topic.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lacks objectivity? There's no gimping here, tell me, what's wrong with handicapping one combatant so that an inferior combatant is on on even field with them? Neo with all his powers pwns YuLaw without breaking a sweat, we all know that. Makes it more interesting if Neo can rely on this or that instead of all his shit.

And if you dont like the subject of a thread, then just dont post.

Yes, when you specifically gimp the more powerful opponent until he/she is weak enough they lose to the other, then it's clearly not objective, you're catering a scenario to the desired outcome. In this case, you wanted Neo (your verison of Neo, not the real one mind you) to lose to Yu Law.

What you did was in no way, shape or form "evening the field", friend. Might as well make a Superman Vs Swagger thread, but take away all of Superman's powers except for super-hearing and insist it's fair and objective, when it clearly isn't.

Ha, no. I'll continue to point out your gimping threads when I see them, don't take it personal.

The rest was off topic.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. No, you want me to use your bastardized interpretation of The One and the matrix and it is you who does not understand my post.

2. Imp. gave us permission to use EU Luke. No matter how much of a fit you throw, he's the mod around these parts and he allowed it. End of.

It really wasn't, but it's demeaning to have to explain how the Matrix works to a 26 year old.

In PMs he clearly stated he was gonna stop it, that it wasn't part of the forum and that it wouldn't be allowed. He said this to me, hence the locking of the thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I said one silly thing, and the silliness was questionable. Sorry, you painting me as silly is an extremely failed attempt. Even if my points are presented in a silly way, it doesn't mean the points are wrong.

I'm not painting you as anything, you do that for me.

When you choose to present any point in a madly immature, stupid and troll-based demeanour, you don't deserve to have them taken seriously, even if they are.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


It's still Neo, just an altered version of Neo, to make the fight fair. It's like a point spread on a sporting bet, why do you think that is allowed? Survey says.......................One team at full strength is better than the other.


So this altered Neo is basically him without flight ability and full strength?

So how much strength does he get?...The same as YuLaw?...If so then he wins on the basis of superior speed and skill (doesn't get more skilled than being programmed to be a master of every martial art ever known)


We can see his level of speed when fighting Smith in M1 before he's even gotten anywhere near his full potential...Take Smith's speed by comparison in the subway fight when he's punching Neo against the wall and his hands go into super speed.

Then compare that with them fighting at the end of M1 when Neo doesn't even have to look at Smith and ends up fighting him off with 1 hand.

Clearly shows that Neo is far faster than YuLaw is.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, when you specifically gimp the more powerful opponent until he/she is weak enough they lose to the other, then it's clearly not objective, you're catering a scenario to the desired outcome. In this case, you wanted Neo (your verison of Neo, not the real one mind you) to lose to Yu Law.

What you did was in no way, shape or form "evening the field", friend. Might as well make a Superman Vs Swagger thread, but take away all of Superman's powers except for super-hearing and insist it's fair and objective, when it clearly isn't.

Ha, no. I'll continue to point out your gimping threads when I see them, don't take it personal. I set this fight up genuinely thinking they were on even ground, or close to. Thats all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I set this fight up genuinely thinking they were on even ground, or close to. Thats all.

A normal human with just an insane level of martial arts skill and some strength Vs a guy who can move so fast bullets slow down in comparison and who can swing around two motorcycles like baseball bats, is fair? Come on.

Originally posted by Robtard
A normal human with just an insane level of martial arts skill Vs a guy who can move so fast bullets slow down in comparison and who can swing around two motorcycles like baseball bats, is fair? Come on. OK then, make it fair? Help me out?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK then, make it fair? Help me out?

That defeats the purpose.

We know Neo at full power defeats Yu Law at full power, so gimping Neo "until it's fair" isn't fair, as we can gimp Neo until he stalemates or loses. Just depends on who you want to win.

Man, forget it haermm Hard as oak, that head of yours.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK then, make it fair? Help me out?

It's actually like talking to a brick wall when talking to you.

People have been telling you why it doesn't work, and yet, somehow I'm the only one with the problem according to you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's actually like talking to a brick wall when talking to you.

People have been telling you why it doesn't work, and yet, somehow I'm the only one with the problem according to you.

-AC It works if you open yourself to it, if you have a slight imagination. It's done all the time in various threads here, you know.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Man, forget it haermm Hard as oak, that head of yours.

You're essentially asking me to gimp Neo until he loses to a much weaker guy, or can lose. I ask again, what is the point? <---do answer that, please.

Here, Neo has no powers and is passed out Vs Yu Law with the power of Neo (in the Matrix) at x2 the power, or we can just call him Yu 'The Two' Law. There, Neo loses.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're essentially asking me to gimp Neo until he loses, or can lose to a weaker opponent.

I ask again, what is the point?

Here, Neo has no powers and is passed out Vs Yu Law with the power of Neo (in the Matrix) at x2 the power, or we can just call him Yu 'The Two' Law. There, Neo loses. No, I am asking you to help me out making the fight as fair as possible. I'm not a huge fan of either character.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I am asking you to help me out making the fight as fair as possible. I'm not a huge fan of either character.

And I ask what is the point of that? Just answer me that.

We know Neo stomps Law, so gimping Neo until he can lose or to the point where he can barely pull a win can easily be done; it also lacks all objectivity. If I want Neo to lose to Law, he'll lose, if I want Neo to win, but not in a stomp, he'll do so, obviosly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I am asking you to help me out making the fight as fair as possible. I'm not a huge fan of either character.

Surely the better idea would be to just pick 2 characters who, on the basis of all their respective movie feats, would be an even match.

Otherwise you can end up with ridiculous match ups with stupid criteria.

Example: Superman vs Walter Sobchek in a fight to the death outside the bowling alley except Walter Sobchek is 100ft tall and shoots nuclear weapons from his eyes and is invulnerable to everything in the universe and Superman has none of his powers as well as having no arms of legs and he can't see cos his eyes have melted and he has physical and metal retardation to due a horse riding accident.

Who wins?

And how much would Neo have to be gimped for YuLaw to win, in your opinion?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And how much would Neo have to be gimped for YuLaw to win, in your opinion?

Quite easy that...You'd have to gimp him of his flying...reduce his speed to the point where he's slower...reduce his strength to the point where he's weaker...remove all his martial arts abilities to the point where he isn't as skilled...Remove his ability to change the matrix.

In other words, until it isn't Neo...

Originally posted by jaden101
Quite easy that...You'd have to gimp him of his flying...reduce his speed to the point where he's slower...reduce his strength to the point where he's weaker...remove all his martial arts abilities to the point where he isn't as skilled...Remove his ability to change the matrix.

In other words, until it isn't Neo... All righty, and tell me, what's the problem with saying "Neo and YuLaw at the same strength level, same speed level, Neo without all his uber powers, in h2h battle?"

1) It's not really Neo, more like the margarine of Neo

2) Neo wins, as he's a master in all forms of martial arts, due to programming.

Speaking of Walter, did you know that John Milius is the person Walter was based off of?

Originally posted by Robtard
1) It's not really Neo, more like the margarine of Neo

2) Neo wins, as he's a master in all forms of martial arts, due to programming. Mhm.....Side question.....Jet Li versus Bruce Lee, both in their prime, who wins?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm.....Side question.....Jet Li versus Bruce Lee, both in their prime, who wins?

Probably Jet Li, as he's competed and shown his abilities against real people without hearsay involved.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably Jet Li, as he's competed and shown his abilities against real people without hearsay involved. Nothing to do with Jet being a master of many styles?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nothing to do with Jet being a master of many styles?

That would probably gimp him as compared to Lee's 'no style, no limitations' way of fighting.

Still, Jet Li has an actual fight record. So if I had to bet, I'd probably go with that, unless my Bruce Lee fanboyism takes hold. That bit of philosophy on 'be like water' still hypes me up.

I never bought into that, the whole one style counters all bullshit.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never bought into that, the whole one style counters all bullshit.

Bruce Lee wasn't about one style, his philosophy on fighting and what got him in trouble with the crusty old Asians was him teaching that forms are outdated and actually limit you. That and teaching non-Chinese.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm.....Side question.....Jet Li versus Bruce Lee, both in their prime, who wins? Bruce Lee

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bruce Lee
You certain fo that? Jet Li is a Wushu champion, he has a record.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It works if you open yourself to it, if you have a slight imagination. It's done all the time in various threads here, you know.

So basically, it works if you just stop using sense and descend into needless, retarded exaggeration?

Yes, hence my original point. Can't believe I had to say it again.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So basically, it works if you just stop using sense and descend into needless, retarded exaggeration?

Yes, hence my original point. Can't believe I had to say it again.

-AC So in your mind, we are to make threads here using each combatant with their full powers, no altering whatsoever?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So in your mind, we are to make threads here using each combatant with their full powers, no altering whatsoever?

We're to make threads whereby we can have discussions based on not altering them, yes.

If you have to alter them because otherwise they are unworkable, leave them unworkable and find someone workable.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're to make threads whereby we can have discussions based on not altering them, yes.

If you have to alter them because otherwise they are unworkable, leave them unworkable and find someone workable.

-AC That's a pretty limited means of thread material, man.

Originally posted by Robtard
You certain fo that? Jet Li is a Wushu champion, he has a record. Bruce Lee comes from an age where there aren't any tricks or wires. I'm convinced he was a better athlete and had a far more intense training regime. That's why he died.

Are we talking competition fighting or streetfight? I'm convinced Lee would win both. Tony Jaa is a more worthy opponent for Lee. Jaa is a better athlete than either.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That's a pretty limited means of thread material, man.

It's not, if you actually have imagination and pick the right people.

That's the irony.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That's a pretty limited means of thread material, man. For once I'm going to have to agree with AC. We shouldn't "gimp" certain characters down to another's state to make it fair. Just replace Neo with someone else like Spider-Man or even Agent Smith. There's no sense in depowering Neo to a point where it's competitive when he's completely in a different power range. Just find a closer character to YuLaw or create a gauntlet thread to try and guage either's power level and where the posters stand on them. Then create a thread involving a fair one on one matchup.

Well, seems there are two camps on this issue. To each their own.

I don't see the big deal. Why depower Neo down to YuLaw's power setting when you can find a character similar in power to him w/o depowering that persons abilities.

Because there are those here who have no problem with it.

I'm not going to ***** and complain about it but I can see others points on why it's dumb to do.

Our way is our way, the other way is their way, neither is the correct way, you know.

Understood. I think this thread's lame ayway due to YuLaw. That was one horrible film. Everything looked fake.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bruce Lee comes from an age where there aren't any tricks or wires. I'm convinced he was a better athlete and had a far more intense training regime. That's why he died.

Are we talking competition fighting or streetfight? I'm convinced Lee would win both. Tony Jaa is a more worthy opponent for Lee. Jaa is a better athlete than either.

Li doesn't use wire-fu in all his movies and Bruce Lee's movies are just that, movies. You don't really think he kicked everyone's ass on the island, now.

What convinces you of this? Surely not Bruce Lee's fight record. Jaa is also another actor and his stunts are as staged as Lee's or Li's.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Our way is our way, the other way is their way, neither is the correct way, you know.

Except not gimping is the objective course. So there is that difference, you can argue how important objectivity is.

Originally posted by Robtard
Li doesn't use wire-fu in all his movies and Bruce Lee's movies are just that, movies. You don't really think he kicked everyone's ass on the island, now.

What convinces you of this? Surely not Bruce Lee's fight record. Jaa is also another actor and his stunts are as staged as Lee's or Li's. What island? He's faster than Li from what I've seen and as far as I'm concerned stronger as well. Like I said, I b
elieve Lee's training regime was superior to Li's. After all, Lee did create a martial art. I will admit I'm not much of a Jet Li fan. I never got into the foreign martial art films.

Tony Jaa is clearly the better athlete. I've yet to see Li or Lee do some of the things I've seen Jaa do in his films.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Our way is our way, the other way is their way, neither is the correct way, you know.

No, you're objectively being silly about it.

You're ignoring what's right about what I'm saying because it's me saying it. Now that the thread is flooded with more people agreeing, you're backpedalling.

-AC

I don't see a problem with RJ's scenario. He removed flight to see how good they matchup in H2H combat. Whats hard to understand about that?

This sort of topic pretty much fills the Comics Vs.

Its comparable to a Wolverine vs Capt America topic where Wolvie can't use his claws in a H2H combat topic. Would you go cry gimping on that one? I don't think so...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Again with the Matrix threads.

When is Impediment going to reinstate the rules of no Matrix characters?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Impediment agreed with me multiple times, he mods the forum.

If he agrees with the fact that these drawn out, hyperbolic, gimpy-spite threads are pointless, then he should outlaw them.

-AC

To be brutally honest with you AC, I agree with you that Matrix characters, at least, especially, Neo, are, essentially, a waste of thread space since Neo is, as you put it, God whilst in the Matrix.

However, if I outlawed Matrix fights, then I'd have to outlaw the next character(s) that people shared the same views upon as you and I do about Neo and his entourage.

My opinion? Just let everyone else debate it out.

Now then:


Let's get back to topic, shall we?

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't see a problem with RJ's scenario. He removed flight to see how good they matchup in H2H combat. Whats hard to understand about that?

This sort of topic pretty much fills the Comics Vs.

Its comparable to a Wolverine vs Capt America topic where Wolvie can't use his claws in a H2H combat topic. Would you go cry gimping on that one? I don't think so...

Yes, yes I would.

-AC

Originally posted by Darth Martin
What island? He's faster than Li from what I've seen and as far as I'm concerned stronger as well. Like I said, I b
elieve Lee's training regime was superior to Li's. After all, Lee did create a martial art. I will admit I'm not much of a Jet Li fan. I never got into the foreign martial art films.

Tony Jaa is clearly the better athlete. I've yet to see Li or Lee do some of the things I've seen Jaa do in his films.

Han's island, from Enter The Dragon. Lee's ass-kicking in that movie was just that, a movie.

Training is awesome, but you're ignoring Li's fight record and multi-championship in Wushu.

Everything you've seen Jaa do is in the movies, right? They're movies, it's all scripted and being a better athlete doesn't mean you're kicking ass in a fight just because of that. Brian Boitano was a better athlete than Tank Abbot, yet he's not kicking Tank's ass, not then; not now.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, yes I would.

-AC

Then you are the extreme minority, and you shouldn't expect to get your way.

Oh lets take a look...

The Swordsmen thread... SW Characters not allowed the Force - GIMP!

Imped's Necromorphs vs. The Gladiators topic... Gladiators outnumber them 3:1 - GIMP! If you change it to a great enough ratio, eventually anyone would win right?

Rorschach vs. Agent 47... No weapons allowed? - GIMP! We all know 47 is better with weapons and he would win, but trying to compare H2H ability is apparently a gimp if you try hard enough.

Theres a lot more... just take a look around.

People just cry gimp when it fits them or because the character they think should win in a real unconditional 1v1 is in question.

RJ is just trying to compare H2H ability by removing flight. Its not like Neo has his strength and speed halved or anything like that, now that would be unreasonable and genuine gimping.

Originally posted by Robtard
Han's island, from Enter The Dragon. Lee's ass-kicking in that movie was just that, a movie.

Training is awesome, but you're ignoring Li's fight record and multi-championship in Wushu.

Everything you've seen Jaa do is in the movies, right? They're movies, it's all scripted and being a better athlete doesn't mean you're kicking ass in a fight just because of that. Brian Boitano was a better athlete than Tank Abbot, yet he's not kicking Tank's ass, not then; not now. I'm not taking any of those fights where a character pwns a whole group of people into consideration. I'm judging based on experiences, backgrounds, and physical abilitites.

Lee has entered martial arts and boxing tournaments and won. All in all, I don't think Lee was much of a competitive fighter. I myself have studied two martial arts: Okinawa Shorin Ryu Karate and Tae Kwon Do. In Osan, Korea my instructor who was a Grand Master repeatedly tried to convince me to enter various tournaments. I myself was only doing martial arts as a means of self defense, I had no interest in the sport part of it. Lee could have been the same way.

As I said I'm not a big fan of Li. When I saw him take out a dozen or so UFC fighters I lost faith. I know it's a movie but that's why I don't watch.

I wouldn't say Tank Abbot is very skilled. I wouldn't want to get in the ring with him but that's do to size.

Training must be taken into account as well as experience. By being able to do all of those vastly difficult strength manuevers he could hit harder because of it. He demonstrated this all the time at tournaments. Some of which you can find on YouTube.

And about Jaa, he's done things, scripted yes but without wires or stunt doubles, I've yet to see either Lee or Li do before. He's alot more of an acrobat. It seems he combines Muay Thai with his incredible Free Run technique and is able to do incredible feats. That can also be used to propose he has more stamina.

I can't account for Li in his prime because the earliest I've seen him is Lethal Weapon 4.

Originally posted by Placidity
Imped's Necromorphs vs. The Gladiators topic... Gladiators outnumber them 3:1 - GIMP! If you change it to a great enough ratio, eventually anyone would win right?

Actually, 'tis the other way around. I put the Necros against the Gladiators 3:1 since the Infectors are a factor in the fight.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm not taking any of those fights where a character pwns a whole group of people into consideration. I'm judging based on experiences, backgrounds, and physical abilitites.

Lee has entered martial arts and boxing tournaments and won. All in all, I don't think Lee was much of a competitive fighter. I myself have studied two martial arts: Okinawa Shorin Ryu Karate and Tae Kwon Do. In Osan, Korea my instructor who was a Grand Master repeatedly tried to convince me to enter various tournaments. I myself was only doing martial arts as a means of self defense, I had no interest in the sport part of it. Lee could have been the same way.

As I said I'm not a big fan of Li. When I saw him take out a dozen or so UFC fighters I lost faith. I know it's a movie but that's why I don't watch.

I wouldn't say Tank Abbot is very skilled. I wouldn't want to get in the ring with him but that's do to size.

Training must be taken into account as well as experience. By being able to do all of those vastly difficult strength manuevers he could hit harder because of it. He demonstrated this all the time at tournaments. Some of which you can find on YouTube.

In that case; when it comes to fighting, Li has far greater experience, as Lee's record is relatively very small and Li is a multi-time champion.

Yes, doing two-finger push-ups and punching boards is awesome, but as Lee said himself in ETD, "boards do not hit back."

As I said above, he may not have been too crazy about competitive martial arts. I don't know since I've never met either.

Two-finger push ups which have allowed him to have incredible punching power. Seriously, the guy has knocked people over by touching them. It's on YouTube somewhere. It wasn't staged or a film, it was at a demonstration.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
As I said above, he may not have been too crazy about competitive martial arts. I don't know since I've never met either.

Two-finger push ups which have allowed him to have incredible punching power. Seriously, the guy has knocked people over by touching them. It's on YouTube somewhere. It wasn't staged or a film, it was at a demonstration.

Yes, the two-inch punch, I've seen it many a time and I'm not arguing that Bruce Lee wasn't in incredible physical conditioning.

I am arguing that the other Asian with the extensive fight record could probably beat the guy who pushed people about and did push-ups on his fingers, because of him actually having a fighting record.

Any videos of Li fighting?

Fighting record or not, Lee is in incredible shape and has extensive knowledge of martial arts. Enough for him to create his own custom form.

LeBron James is hailed as the best basketball player in the world(he isn't) but a average joe beats him in a game HORSE.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Any videos of Li fighting?

Fighting record or not, Lee is in incredible shape and has extensive knowledge of martial arts. Enough for him to create his own custom form.

LeBron James is hailed as the best basketball player in the world(he isn't) but a average joe beats him in a game HORSE.

Never bothered to look for one. Have no idea.

Li is in incredible shape and is a Wushu champion. Don't think he ever created his own form though.

Okay, but if we put that average Joe and James in a basketball court and said 'have at it', who would you bet on winning?

I doubt Li in his prime was in the shape of Lee. Bruce Lee could do tricks like bulking up his body. I've yet to hear about or see Li doing things like two-hand pushups and such.

Of course LeBron would beat the average joe in one on one. The average joe had his number in HORSE which takes real skill.

Lee might not have been as much of a professional competitive martial artist. Doesn't mean he isn't one of the greatest fighters to walk the earth. There are plenty of people who are top tier martial artist who do it for reasons other than tournaments. Should we consider a tournament fighter better? Lee has even been challenged by people on the street and "methodically took" them "apart". Various individuals have claimed he is fake and gotten there asses kicked by Lee.

Much of what you're saying about Lee is all hearsay and hype built upon legends that grew over time. It's silly, so stop it.

Granted, Lee might have really been the best ever; from a logical standpoint, I'm going with the fighter with the record.

It's the reason why Ali would have kicked Lee's ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
Much of what you're saying about Lee is all hearsay and hype built upon legends that grew over time. It's silly, so stop it.

Granted, Lee might have really been the best ever; from a logical standpoint, I'm going with the fighter with the record.

It's the reason why Ali would have kicked Lee's ass.
What have I said so far that is silly or talk of legend?

I'm not so sure about Ali kicking Lee's ass. Two totally different martial artists. It's a much more complex debate than our current one. We'd have to factor in height, weight, enviorment, clothing, etc.

Hey guys, how is this related lol?

Originally posted by Placidity
Hey guys, how is this related lol?

It's not at all. Neo already won the thread, even gimped Neo.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hey guys, how is this related lol? It's a side question put forth by Rogue.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It really wasn't, but it's demeaning to have to explain how the Matrix works to a 26 year old.

Save everyone the time and don't demean yourself with your false and ignorant ideas of how the Matrix works, then.




Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not painting you as anything, you do that for me.

Yeah, except, no.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When you choose to present any point in a madly immature, stupid and troll-based demeanour, you don't deserve to have them taken seriously, even if they are.

-AC

So this is how someone side steps being pwned?

I just read the rest of the thread.



Neo is NOT a god or THE god of the Matrix. Not even close.


Here's his abilities:

1. Amped durability beyond the human subroutine.

2. Can fly, but other than that, we don't see him manipulate gravity except for bullets.

3. Can stop bullets. Other than that, he shows no other signs of TK, other than flying. (3 and 2 and very similar...but not the same. They deserve their own bullet points.)

4. Neo shocked Trinity back alive by shocking her heart. It's the one and only time we see him do that. It may be the only time he can do that, since it was Trinity. Don't you guys think Neo would have saved a lot more lives if he could do that on a whim?

5. Neo has a form of precognition...but it's not really precognition at all. It's just reacting extremely fast to things around him and...

6. Uber senses while in the Matrix.

7. Hugely amped strength while in the matrix, but the strength amp isn't huge.





What everyone fails to realize is Neo is not manipulating the Matrix as he sees fit, like Morpheus said The One could do, he is manipulating the Matrix EXACTLY how he was programmed to be allowed to do by the Architect and the Oracle.

That's right: what Neo does is part of the fuggin' program.


Hell, what the hackers do in the Matrix by altering it (adding guns, and other hacks) are more Godlike than what Neo does. If Neo was the god of the Matrix, then he could change reality completely, as he saw fit. He wouldn't be destructable (we see him take damage, even after becoming The One.), and his strength would be immeasurable instead of limited, as we see. In fact, he wouldn't have need for physical strength, really.




When people claim that Neo is a God in the Matrix and he can do whatever he wants, that is to miss the point of The One. The One never was a God of the Matrix. It is just a probability, fully calculated and implemented by the Architect and the Oracle. To assume other wise is to miss the point of The One.

I think the counter-argument was yea he "could have, but then there wouldn't be a movie".

That is just so beyond logic I don't even know how to respond to that.