Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Got the idea from the Star Wars versus forum where a similar thread exists..

changes from Star Wars thread

1) this is Grievous as shown in ROTS where he has all four lightsabers

2) this is Maul as shown in TPM



Sidious has pitted Maul against Grievous for the right to go after and look for other jedi. takes place in the Geonosis battle area

Imagine Maul as Kobe Bryant, GG as the hotel clerk.

Maul wins

Now if this was the non cgi clone wars grevious I'd give him the win

grievous annihilates him.

Movie Grievous? Get real.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Imagine Maul as Kobe Bryant, GG as the hotel clerk.

Ease off......

Kobe Bryant is awesome.

And Maul rapes.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Movie Grievous? Get real.

versus movie maul?

what... did maul do again in the movies?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
versus movie maul?

what... did maul do again in the movies? Used force powers, showed speed and agility that trumped GG, had Obi Wan (you know, the Jedi who killed GG) beat.

Force crush the heart, yo.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Used force powers,

he used force push.



such as?



i wasnt aware apprentice TPM obi-wan= RotS 15 years older jedi master obi wan in skill and power. besides, TPM obi-wan also put maul on his ass and chopped his lightsaber in half. congratulations.



i dont remember maul using force crush ever, but i guess he knows how to use it, just like obi-wan can use force lightning. amirite.

im being sarcastic; everything youre saying is wrong

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
he used force push.



such as?



i wasnt aware apprentice TPM obi-wan= RotS 15 years older jedi master obi wan in skill and power. besides, TPM obi-wan also put maul on his ass and chopped his lightsaber in half. congratulations.



i dont remember maul using force crush ever, but i guess he knows how to use it, just like obi-wan can use force lightning. amirite.

im being sarcastic; everything youre saying is wrong

He used force push and he grabbed that piece of debris to hurl and open a door. He displayed adequate levels of TK power.

Such as? Watch the duel again, he and Obi Wan are fighting at breakneck speeds.

Yeah, he underestimated Obi Wan. He pwned the shit outta Qui Gon, you saying TPM Obi Wan was a better duelist than Qui Gon? Bong.

This has already been covered. Force methods such as Force choke and force crush are all TK, Maul displayed TK, all he would need to do is target the heart with his TK and apply that much harder of a force hold on it. Or he could simply force push GG away every time GG got close and strike him down at his leisure.

I'm being literal, everything I am saying is right. Maul would tear G apart.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He used force push and he grabbed that piece of debris to hurl and open a door. He displayed adequate levels of TK power.

he grabbed a piece of debris that looked like it barely weighed twenty pounds and force pushed a regular sized man ten feet. thats not impressive at all.

no they werent.



are you saying TPM obi-wan is a better duelist than RotS obi-wan? cause thats kind of what you were implying with "beat the guy who beat grievous". which is ridiculous.



whoever "covered" that was wrong then.

Maul was a throwaway villain, bar none.

Everyone make shim out to be such a bad ass, but he still was a cocky Sith apprentice who got split into two pieces by a Jedi apprentice.

haermm K, man, whatever TK is TK, dude. How it is used it up to the force wielder. There's really no room for debate here.

What is being done here is this. A badass Sith lord with force powers is being pitted against a robotic opponent with no force powers. Maul can, on his worst day, match GG in speed and swordsmanship. Add on force powers and Maul wins 10/10. It's like taking two gunmen equal in skill, arming one with a derringer and one with an Uzi.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
haermm K, man, whatever TK is TK, dude. How it is used it up to the force wielder. There's really no room for debate here.

What is being done here is this. A badass Sith lord with force powers is being pitted against a robotic opponent with no force powers. Maul can, on his worst day, match GG in speed and swordsmanship. Add on force powers and Maul wins 10/10. It's like taking two gunmen equal in skill, arming one with a derringer and one with an Uzi.

no.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
haermm K, man, whatever TK is TK, dude. How it is used it up to the force wielder. There's really no room for debate here.

What is being done here is this. A badass Sith lord with force powers is being pitted against a robotic opponent with no force powers. Maul can, on his worst day, match GG in speed and swordsmanship. Add on force powers and Maul wins 10/10. It's like taking two gunmen equal in skill, arming one with a derringer and one with an Uzi.

no.

the court agrees!

Originally posted by Impediment
Maul was a throwaway villain, bar none.

Everyone make shim out to be such a bad ass, but he still was a cocky Sith apprentice who got split into two pieces by a Jedi apprentice. Maul was not a throwaway villain. Lucas threw him away. Might have been the cheapest death in movie-dom. Maul was the single greatest thing about the PT. What exactly did Grievous do onscreen besides cough, weeze, run from danger, get two of his hand cut off, and die.

Originally posted by Impediment
Maul was a throwaway villain, bar none.

Everyone make shim out to be such a bad ass, but he still was a cocky Sith apprentice who got split into two pieces by a Jedi apprentice. ... And killed a Jedi Master.

Grievous still wins though.

In the Movies, Maul did nothing particularly extraordinary, and if crushing his heart with the Force is so damn easy... Why has no one done it? Well I guess Mace Windu kind of did it in the cartoon, but that is the same Mace Windu who was the second strongest Jedi alive at that point, and the same cartoon where Windu took on an army of Droids without a weapon and was Hulk jumping in the field.

Also, Maul's TK abilities in the movies were basic at best, he showed an "alright" Force Push, but his only graspinh feat was on an object that weighed like fifteen pounds...

Grievous with his four arms is able to use his sabers like a buzz-saw, Obi-Wan beat it yeah, the same OB who was one of the best duelists in the order at the time, and had a more defense-oriented Saber style even in the movies, compared to Maul's overly aggressive style, the one that would get him sawed to pieces by Grievous' saber buzzsaw.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Maul was not a throwaway villain. Lucas throwed him away.

I rest my case. By the way, Lucas "threw" Darth Maul away.

Originally posted by NemeBro
... And killed a Jedi Master.

Grievous still wins though.

In the Movies, Maul did nothing particularly extraordinary, and if crushing his heart with the Force is so damn easy... Why has no one done it? Well I guess Mace Windu kind of did it in the cartoon, but that is the same Mace Windu who was the second strongest Jedi alive at that point, and the same cartoon where Windu took on an army of Droids without a weapon and was Hulk jumping in the field.

Also, Maul's TK abilities in the movies were basic at best, he showed an "alright" Force Push, but his only graspinh feat was on an object that weighed like fifteen pounds...

Grievous with his four arms is able to use his sabers like a buzz-saw, Obi-Wan beat it yeah, the same OB who was one of the best duelists in the order at the time, and had a more defense-oriented Saber style even in the movies, compared to Maul's overly aggressive style, the one that would get him sawed to pieces by Grievous' saber buzzsaw.

Duly noted.

Maul was tough, I agree, but his screen feats, compared to GG were very undermined.

Originally posted by Impediment
By the way, Lucas "threw" Darth Maul away.

Originally posted by Impediment
Duly noted.

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Originally posted by Impediment
I rest my case. By the way, Lucas "threw" Darth Maul away. Originally posted by Impediment
Duly noted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldTtmeYzOgo

If you are going to derail the thread with banal videos instead of contributing an intelligent rebuttal, then I invite you to leave.

This goes for everyone.

Intelligent rebuttals, huh? You critiqued my grammar!

Your the one going off topic about Maul being a throwaway character. Which I don't mind, but don't go all Lee Ermey on me for something your enticing.

Maul wins. He is an adept Force user and a superior sword combatant than Grievous in his weakened state. Can I go swing now?

Maul IS a throwaway character, in my opinion. How in the Blue Hell is that going off topic. Or are you just sore from not having any kind of rebuttal except to exacerbate my previous post?

You have no idea who or what R. Lee Ermy is or what he is capable of. Poor choice, indeed.

Swing away. Away from this thread, if that is all you can give to the debate.

Originally posted by Impediment
You have no idea who or what R. Lee Ermy is or what he is capable of. Poor choice, indeed.

youre wrong about everything though martin

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Got the idea from the Star Wars versus forum where a similar thread exists..


WOAH WOAH WOAH

Back it up.

In the Versus forum, Maul wasn't allowed to use the force offensively (attack his organs). Can he now?

Originally posted by Impediment
no. Just no? Just cuz?

Maul IS as fast, is at least as good a swordsman. AOTC GG and ROTS GG is a shadow of the animated series GG. Maul has force precog and force push on his side here.

GG tries his buzzsaw atttack? Shit, Maul force pushes him away, or force grabs something and hurls it at him. GG gets distracted by the flying debris, Maul decaps.

Try to come up with something better than "no."

why? every discussion people have with you ends up going in circles...

you get a "no." and thats it.

Maul has many impressive feats and accolades to his name. Anoon was a testament to his incredible bladework. TPM novelization describes how Maul manhandled Qui-Gon, the man who is on even footing with Windu. There is no evidence that suggests a Grievous victory.

EU doesnt count here

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
why? every discussion people have with you ends up going in circles...

you get a "no." and thats it.

Nah, I get a "no" because you got nothing left. I'll say it again, slower this time.

TPM Maul is as fast as AOTC and ROTS GG. He is at least as good a swordsman. Maul has force precog, push and grab, GG does not.

Advantage Maul.


Maul, when confronted by two Jedi in TPM, stood his ground and pwned them hard. He was killed because of his arrogance, but he won the saber/force battle. GG, when confronted by two Jedi in ROTS? He ran like a beeotch. Why? Because he knew he could not defeat them. Hell, he couldn't even defeat one.

Screen feats with a saber, advantage Maul.

Screen feats and powers go to Maul.

Score's two nothin', your turn.



Lemmee guess......."no." It's OK, sorry about your legs.

rj.

no.

cause i mean obviously ive "got nothing left", whatever the hell that means. not that i just dont want to spend the next 30 pages arguing in circles with you which is what always happens with you. clearly its that ive "got nothing left", whatever the hell that means.

reported

have a nice day.

haermm right?

Reported why? For what? For burying your argument neck deep? K.

And yeah, big ass haermm . Epic butthurt haermm


You see, we compare screen feats here. Maul has better screen feats. I listed them. It's up to you to counter them. You can't, because there aren't any.

See how that works?

Grievous would pwn Darth Maul.

Maul got owned by a rookie Kenobi, while Grivevous gave a seasoned Kenobi a run for his money.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Grievous would pwn Darth Maul.

Maul got owned by a rookie Kenobi, while Grivevous gave a seasoned Kenobi a run for his money.

Wrong. Maul beat Kenobi AND Qui Gon. He lost because he thought he had Kenobi beat. He faced down TWO Jedi and beat them saber to saber.

GG ran from two Jedi. And dude, Kenobi was clearly kicking GG's ass saber to saber. What did GG do then? He ran. He ran, he ran so far away.

GG gave Kenobi a run for his money when Kenobi was disarmed. Of course if you disarm Maul GG will give Maul a run for his money.

I started reading this thread yesterday because I like Star Wars. Ran out of time to post.



But, movie Grievous sucked. He was a pitiful weak fool. He was a throwaway character, barely registering as a legitimate bad guy threat to the classic movie characters roll. I was sorely disappointed with his character in the film as he was crazy good in his other iterations. He took on several knights and a Master or two, all at once, and he kicked all of their @sses. Then, we have Obi Wan take him out, all by himself in the film.


That's lame.


Obviously, movie Grievous loses against movie Maul. But, we expand out a little bit into, still, canon sources of Grievous, he would wipe the floor with Maul.


Let's not get off track here and use versions of Grievous that we can't use. Movie Grievous was a p*ssy and sucked. He was barely a shadow of his bad arse self from the Cartoon and book.

This is a prime example of why we need an everything versus forum: "movie only" in the "movie only" versus forum is getting in the way of the richness and awesomeness of a character's ability.


And, this thread is full of hate and anger from all parties. Guys, just relax.



P.S. I got RJ to admit that Grievous would win if we could use the Cartoon. tee hee

Originally posted by dadudemon




But, movie Grievous sucked. He was a pitiful weak fool. He was a throwaway character, barely registering as a legitimate bad guy threat to the classic movie characters roll. I was sorely disappointed with his character in the film as he was crazy good in his other iterations. He took on several knights and a Master or two, all at once, and he kicked all of their @sses. Then, we have Obi Wan take him out, all by himself in the film.


That's lame. Mhm, agreed.



Get assraped, more like.



GOT me to admit that? I admitted that to you even before we discussed this.

Who was the better Jedi/more deadlier Jedi, Qui Gon Jin or Jedi-Knight Obi Wan?

IMO? Qui Gon had more skill.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
IMO? Qui Gon had more skill.

So you think Qui Gon from ep1, could have beaten Obi Won from ep3?

Edit, I messed up, Obi was a Master in ep3, right?

obi-wan was a master in RotS yes

Originally posted by Robtard
So you think Qui Gon from ep1, could have beaten Obi Won from ep3?

Edit, I messed up, Obi was a Master in ep3, right? IMO he beats AOTC Obi and ROTS Obi. Look at Obi fighting Dooku in AOTC then in ROTS. He wasn't a whole lot better.

Yeah, but his fight against pre-burned Vader was.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, but his fight against pre-burned Vader was. I knew you would go there.

Obi Wan knew Anakin better than anyone. He knew all Anakins moves, knew how Anakin would fight, this is why he won in the end.

Same reason Dooku seemed to know all Obi Wans moves. He was Qui Gons former master, Qui Gon was Obi Wans former master......see the pattern?

I think it was more to do that Dooku was just a bad-ass with decades of training.

Anankin beat Dooku, once he skilled up to knight, though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
GOT me to admit that? I admitted that to you even before we discussed this.

No you didn't. I have the message history right in front of me. I sent it to you, you ignored it or over looked it. Later, in our conversation, I got you to admit it, and then you tried to pass it off as your own idea saying something like "I never didn't believe that". I pointed you to the message and then said, "ewwwwwwwww! pwned you in da face! THHBHTHBHBHTBHTBH!" Is it ringing a bell, yet?



Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Same reason Dooku seemed to know all Obi Wans moves. He was Qui Gons former master, Qui Gon was Obi Wans former master......see the pattern?

No. That's not how it worked. With Obi Wan and Anakin, yes, that's how it worked. Dooku was just a good Force user in his own right, and was a very adept saber duelist.

Originally posted by Robtard
I think it was more to do that Dooku was just a bad-ass with decades of training.

Anankin beat Dooku, once he skilled up to knight, though.

And it helped that his former student had trained Obi Wan. He sorta knew what to expect. You can't deny that he was one step ahead of Obi Wan the whole time, always ready for whatever Obi Wan threw at him.

Anakin was different. He went a bit dark side there, plus he was reckless.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No you didn't. I have the message history right in front of me. I sent it to you, you ignored it or over looked it. Later, in our conversation, I got you to admit it, and then you tried to pass it off as your own idea saying something like "I never didn't believe that". I pointed you to the message and then said, "ewwwwwwwww! pwned you in da face! THHBHTHBHBHTBHTBH!" Is it ringing a bell, yet?





No. That's not how it worked. With Obi Wan and Anakin, yes, that's how it worked. Dooku was just a good Force user in his own right, and was a very adept saber duelist.

Dude, you were ranting about MVF rules and how GG was watered down in the movies, I had to stop you and tell you that yes, movie GG sucked ass.


It's a theory.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And it helped that his former student had trained Obi Wan. He sorta knew what to expect. You can't deny that he was one step ahead of Obi Wan the whole time, always ready for whatever Obi Wan threw at him.

Anakin was different. He went a bit dark side there, plus he was reckless.

He was just better, overall, he had decades of experience on his side and he was darkside trained.

Or Anakin became the bad-ass he was born to be. Even as a Padawan, he did okay against Dooku for a bit.

To get on topic. Stands to reason GG fought/dueled a harder opponent and did well against him, basically had him beat.

I suppose that was a factor.

Anakin beat Dooku because he powered through an old man's guard.

That is what is shown in the movies, and even the EU agrees with meh.

tl;dr



Could be be a little more specific? What acts of power has GG displayed? None. What renowned Jedi Masters has GG killed? None. What feats does he have? None. How many accolades to his name? Zero.



Qui-Gon. The man was on even footing with Windu.



This, and everything you have said about Kenobi and Dooku, is blatantly false.

And in the space where Kenobi's chest had been was now only the blue
lightning of Skywalker's blade driving straight for Dooku's heart.
Only a desperate whirl to one side made what would have been a smoking
hole in his chest into a line of scorch through his armorweave cloak.
Dooku thought, What?
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the
situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover
his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his
boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a
defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a
strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a
reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack,
Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come
out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under
Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord to the floor. This
was not in the plan.



Kenobi is not Maul. GG did not beat Kenobi.

This:

This, and everything you have said about Kenobi and Dooku, is blatantly false.

And in the space where Kenobi's chest had been was now only the blue
lightning of Skywalker's blade driving straight for Dooku's heart.
Only a desperate whirl to one side made what would have been a smoking
hole in his chest into a line of scorch through his armorweave cloak.
Dooku thought, What?
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the
situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover
his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his
boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a
defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a
strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a
reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack,
Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come
out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under
Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord to the floor. This
was not in the plan.


Not in the movie, therefore it has no bearing here.

?

I wasn't aware that novels weren't canon. But how convenient for you, as you can keep regurgitating the same shit over and over again, with absolutely nothing to support your "argument". How can you tell if someone is doing well or not? It's impossible. How can you tell if Kenobi fought better or worse between ROTS and AOTC, just by looking at the lightsaber fights themselves?

Originally posted by Shoes
How can you tell if Kenobi fought better or worse between ROTS and AOTC, just by looking at the lightsaber fights themselves?

Considering this is the Movie Vs. forum, that is the thing to do.

What do you suggest we look at in determing who's a better dueist, if not the fights?

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering this is the Movie Vs. forum, that is the thing to do.

What do you suggest we look at in determing who's a better dueist, if not the fights?



You misunderstand my point. You can't determine if Kenobi improved or not, simply by looking at the fights.

AOTC Kenobi lost to Dooku.
ROTS Kenobi lost to Dooku.

We can't see that he improved, but that's where the novels come into play. From the quote above, it's quite evident that Kenobi was a match for Dooku, even though Dooku won.

Another example of this is TPM. As Qui-Gon fought Maul, the novel says Maul wasn't even trying, whereas on screen, all we see is a flashy battle.

He could have lost both, yet improved in the second, as not all loses are equal.

I dissagree, Maul seemed to be playing with them from the start. When Qui Gon was by himself, the fight ended fairly quickly.

Either way, the books don't count here, for obvious reasons.

This is what I said, but we wouldn't see that improvement on-screen. According to RJ, if it's not on-screen, it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Shoes
This is what I said, but we wouldn't see that improvement on-screen. According to RJ, if it's not on-screen, it didn't happen.

Not RJ, the rules of the forum.

Discount all other canon sources, and go by your eyes?

Then how can you say he didn't improve?

Originally posted by Shoes
This is what I said, but we wouldn't see that improvement on-screen. According to RJ, if it's not on-screen, it didn't happen.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t478590.html

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t478590.html

Interesting.

GG is then unknown.

Maul wins.

I know, this is why we need an anything versus forum.

Originally posted by Shoes
Interesting.

GG is then unknown.

Maul wins.

Well, if you're this amicable, then you'll be fun to have around. I don't think anyone that comes to these threads, regularly, is willing to give up an argument if they aren't right. Good job. You get three internetz.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=529449&pagenumber=1

Tyranus defeated Kenobi easily both times because he's is that good. Take nothing away from Kenobi. And it's quite evident that ROTS Kenobi>AOTC Kenobi. He's much better in lightsaber combat and in the Force.

TPM Qui Gon Jinn>AOTC Kenobi
TPM Qui Gon Jinn>AOTC Skywalker

I say Maul or Grievous could solo these two.

I'm not saying it's "fact", it's simply a theory I have.

Originally posted by Shoes
Interesting.

GG is then unknown.

Maul wins.

Not so cut and dry, as we see GG doing fairly well against a tougher opponent than Maul took on.

ROTS Kenobi would wipe the floor with Maul, while GG almost defeated him; in fact, Kenobi had to use a weapon he doesn't approve of to win the fight.

GG ran, if he had stood his ground and fought Kenobi, Kenobi woulda ended him. Kenobi was pwning the saber duel.

edit

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
GG ran, if he had stood his ground and fought Kenobi, Kenobi woulda ended him. Kenobi was pwning the saber duel.

This.

Originally posted by dadudemon
weenarz





Originally posted by Robtard
teetee's


hell yeah.

Clone Wars GG was awesome, but Obi Wan (according to Dooku) was his superior in that series as well, and this is not long after AOTC.

Maul was killed by a young Obi but he was the superior of both Obi and Qui Gon together, that has to count for something.

Originally posted by Allankles

Maul was killed by a young Obi but he was the superior of both Obi and Qui Gon together, that has to count for something.

Because he stopped to gloat, had he continued his assault, Obi Won would have ended up hand-less and at the bottom of that pit.

His own hubris defeated him.

Maul, and with no place to run for GG he loses all his arms before he dies aswell. For abc logics sake (and since this is movie versions) Maul > Obi & QGJ. OBI & QGJ probably > GG. GG literally did nothing to impress, he was not even a great swordsman for christ sake he lost 2 hands in 5 seconds against a defensive fighter. Dual sabre maul would tear him a new one.

Gloating cost maul his life, NOT his lack of skill. He' son'd QGJ who is = Windu.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because he stopped to gloat, had he continued his assault, Obi Won would have ended up hand-less and at the bottom of that pit.

His own hubris defeated him.


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