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John Preston (Equilibrium) vs. Baleman

1) Preston has his handguns, Baleman has his batsuit and standard equipment.

2) Just swords.

They fight in the Vatican at night.

Batman dies /end

1. Unless Baleman tranqs Preston from the shadows (are tranqs standard equipment?) Batman is going down.
Batman couldn't take Harvey Dent's bullet. And Batman ain't dodging Preston's shots.

2. You mean Wayne just has a sword as well like in Batman Begins?
Or Batman vs Preston with swords?

Originally posted by the ninjak


2. You mean Wayne just has a sword as well like in Batman Begins?
Or Batman vs Preston with swords?

Batman would die in either scenario, so it hardly matters.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Batman would die in either scenario, so it hardly matters.

True.

What if I add Ra's or Bane to the second scenario?

I made the fight at night so maybe Bats can utilize his stealth skills.

Originally posted by Psychotron
What if I add Ra's or Bane to the second scenario?

I made the fight at night so maybe Bats can utilize his stealth skills.

Stealth skills don't matter unless Batman has tranqs.

Though Batman showed he can sneak and hide in plain site of his opponents.
Batman also broke a brick wall with a kick.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Stealth skills don't matter unless Batman has tranqs.

Though Batman showed he can sneak and hide in plain site of his opponents.
Batman also broke a brick wall with a kick.

Well, he did use tranqs in the third film, so why not?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, he did use tranqs in the third film, so why not?

Then Batman wins both fights if he has tranqs.

Batman has no training in fencing - he's going down on #2.

Iirc, his suit isn't bullet-proof, is it? The only time we see him taking care of a Batman event - induced wound is in Dark Knight, when he takes care of those dog bites and scratches. Also, it doesn't really matter if he hides, as Preston can take care of whole roomfuls of people with the lights off. If Batman DOES have bullet-proof help, then he might survive an initial bullet spray - but the cleric sweeps the building, if only to look for illicit emotional articles. It makes sense to me that he would check if his prey were dead.

Batman goes down in both scenarios.

Preston rapes.

Scenario 1 is target practice for Preston

Scenario 2...Batman still has no chance. Even with Ra's.

Preston wins both.

Batman wins 1.

Preston wins 2.

"Where are you?"
"He-"(BAM!)

Preston wins

I guess i made an unintentional spite thread.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I guess i made an unintentional spite thread.

It happens.

Originally posted by juggerman
"Where are you?"
"He-"(BAM!)

Preston wins

No Batman proved he was a master of hiding in the shadows.

In fight one he uses the museums shadows to hide whilst Preston confidently walks through it.
Batman launches a tranq into his body and Round 1 is over.

Batman loses Round 2 though no probs.

But he wins Round 1. Psychtron allowed traqs as basic equip.

Originally posted by the ninjak
No Batman proved he was a master of hiding in the shadows.

In fight one he uses the museums shadows to hide whilst Preston confidently walks through it.
Batman launches a tranq into his body and Round 1 is over.

Batman loses Round 2 though no probs.

But he wins Round 1. Psychtron allowed traqs as basic equip.

And Preston proved that he can kill you without even seeing you.

The tranq is an issue. But the goons got tranq'd and were able to pull it out and look at it before they got woozy and fell over iirc. Once it hits Preston he'd fire in that direction instantly and most likely kill the Bat before falling asleep. This guy's reflexes are ridiculously fast. Who has a damn gun sword fight anyway?

Is the Tranq really an issue though? I mean, it's not as if Preston has trouble taking on bad guys who are shooting at him.

I'm no geometrist, but don't bullets move faster than a tranquilizer dart?

Preston rapes.

Originally posted by juggerman
And Preston proved that he can kill you without even seeing you.

The tranq is an issue. But the goons got tranq'd and were able to pull it out and look at it before they got woozy and fell over iirc. Once it hits Preston he'd fire in that direction instantly and most likely kill the Bat before falling asleep. This guy's reflexes are ridiculously fast. Who has a damn gun sword fight anyway?

I need proof of this.

I thought Preston saw everybody he killed before he did the deed.

Batman....hiding in the shadows of a museum. Tranquilizing Preston from a distance with no sound.

Will result in Preston going down. No doubt. But him killing Batman because of the assault is something I'm new to.

Batman will chose the furthest corner. He will hide in it and launch his tranq and if argument permits move from that position. Versus Forums permit limited knowledge on each character therefore Batman has the advantage in Round 1.


Baleman wins Round 1.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I need proof of this.

I thought Preston saw everybody he killed before he did the deed.

Batman....hiding in the shadows of a museum. Tranquilizing Preston from a distance with no sound.

Will result in Preston going down. No doubt. But him killing Batman because of the assault is something I'm new to.

Batman will chose the furthest corner. He will hide in it and launch his tranq and if argument permits move from that position. Versus Forums permit limited knowledge on each character therefore Batman has the advantage in Round 1.


Baleman wins Round 1.

Proof is in the first scene of the movie. He enters a pitch black room and kills everyone. Batman would not avoid that flurry

Originally posted by juggerman
Proof is in the first scene of the movie. He enters a pitch black room and kills everyone. Batman would not avoid that flurry

I remember Bale killing a group of men surrounding him in the night.

He knew where they all were.

I hate asking for feats. But I'm sure if Baleman hits Preston with a tranq it's a tie regardless. If not a win for Batman for he would move after launching it.

Were the men attacking Preston using guns? for it would make sense then. Baleman is shooting a silent projectile though.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I remember Bale killing a group of men surrounding him in the night.

He knew where they all were.

I hate asking for feats. But I'm sure if Baleman hits Preston with a tranq it's a tie regardless. If not a win for Batman for he would move after launching it.

Were the men attacking Preston using guns? for it would make sense then. Baleman is shooting a silent projectile though.

No he did not see them at all. He was trained to fire in pretty much every single direction of a room to insure that the enemy is hit. Batman would surely be tagged

Originally posted by juggerman
No he did not see them at all. He was trained to fire in pretty much every single direction of a room to insure that the enemy is hit. Batman would surely be tagged

That's madness. Considering both fighters are in the Vatican.

Batman is hiding in the shadows in a random location. Shoots Preston with a tranq then swoops somewhere else.

The idea of Preston shooting every area possible in order to tag Batman is nuts considering the size of the arena before he falls unconscious.

Originally posted by the ninjak
That's madness. Considering both fighters are in the Vatican.

Batman is hiding in the shadows in a random location. Shoots Preston with a tranq then swoops somewhere else.

The idea of Preston shooting every area possible in order to tag Batman is nuts considering the size of the arena before he falls unconscious.

I really didn't take the entire arena into consideration since i assumed they at least started out facing eachother. If Preston has to hunt the Bat down then yes a tranq might suffice but as soon as Preston was hit i could see him killing Batman before he passed out.

Originally posted by juggerman
I really didn't take the entire arena into consideration since i assumed they at least started out facing eachother. If Preston has to hunt the Bat down then yes a tranq might suffice but as soon as Preston was hit i could see him killing Batman before he passed out.

Batman could launch a tranq then head behind a pillar or wall. This is the way I've always seen this fight eventuate.
Baleman has the advantage in Round 1.

Is that the way Baleman actually fight's or the way you would? I haven't seen the third film but based on the way he acts in the first two i don't see him using a tranq on 1 enemy.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Is that the way Baleman actually fight's or the way you would? I haven't seen the third film but based on the way he acts in the first two i don't see him using a tranq on 1 enemy.

He uses the feat in the third film. Bad writing be damned.

One instance of using tranq's against multiple enemy's( im Guessing) Doesn't mean he would use it against 1 enemy. Nor does it mean they would hit him, Preston dodged bullet's throughout the entire movie comicbook style.

Yeah. One instance of using the tranq's don't make them Batman's "go to" method of taking someone down. Which remains getting up close. He might try the tranqs something like 2 or 3 times out of 10.

Both have common knowledge of each other.

As per Forum Rules.

Round One.

Vatican at night. Batman launches a tranq into Preston's body from the darkness.
He will never attempt to take him on up close because basic knowledge shows he will die quickly.
Baleman dodged assault rifle bullets up close in the dark in the DKR.
He has a good chance of dodging a freaks from far away after launching a silent projectile.

Basics knowledge of preston tells him that he is a - Grammaton Cleric, peacekeeper, emotionless and master of gun - kata. I don't see why basic knowledge would tell him how skilled preston is.

even then he had basic knowledge of bane and wanted to test himself against him even at alfred's behest and got dealt with, So batman Doesn't always act on what's safest.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Basics knowledge of preston tells him that he is a - Grammaton Cleric, peacekeeper, emotionless and master of gun - kata. I don't see why basic knowledge would tell him how skilled preston is.

even then he had basic knowledge of bane and wanted to test himself against him even at alfred's behest and got dealt with, So batman Doesn't always act on what's safest.

Basic knowledge tells him his opponent is capable of shooting a person with mathematical precision from a distance based upon awareness of the opponent? Well that's the basis of my argument.

Baleman in the 3rd film was a fool. In the others he fought with extreme skill.

He was defeated in TDKR. But still had tricks up his sleeve.

Combine the Baleman's skills from more than 2/3 of his films and all the tricks and he puts Preston down no probs in his one film.

You haven't even seen TDK why are you even bothering?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Basic knowledge tells him his opponent is capable of shooting a person with mathematical precision from a distance based upon awareness of the opponent? Well that's the basis of my argument.

Baleman in the 3rd film was a fool. In the others he fought with extreme skill.

He was defeated in TDKR. But still had tricks up his sleeve.

Combine the Baleman's skills from more than 2/3 of his films and all the tricks and he puts Preston down no probs in his one film.

You haven't even seen TDK why are you even bothering? That is actually a far more detailed analyses of his abilities than what I think General knowledge refers to.
Skill is not what this arguments about it's about use of stealth when it matters and the fact is he only uses it on nobody's, didn't use it against the scarecrow, the joker or BANE who he was warned about.

He wasn't just defeated he was defeated in a show of such incompetence it's baffling. In skill he doesn't compare to Preston, He has him beat in stealth but only uses it against nobody's which Preston is surely not, what will happen is that barman will engage him in hth try to disarm him and either get a shot or beat to death with the guns.

Basic knowledge told him Bane was a serious threat and he still went in h2h. He will not tranq from jump imo

Good points. And I understand both of your standings.

Personally I perceive Preston and the realisation of a Grammaton Cleric coming to fight him being vastly superior to his idea of who Bane was before their fateful encounter.

There is no way Batman would even attempt a close range confrontation with basic knowledge of such a beast.

I believe tranqs would be his first and only realistic method of taking Preston down. Tranqs are silent. Batman is a master of hiding in the shadows. It's his only choice.

The idea of Preston shooting and killing Batman after hit by a tranq is dependent on whether Batman is smart enough with his basic knowledge to move behind solid cover after launching the tranq. Which is slower than a bullet.

I still think Batman wins Round 1.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Good points. And I understand both of your standings.

Personally I perceive Preston and the realisation of a Grammaton Cleric coming to fight him being vastly superior to his idea of who Bane was before their fateful encounter.

There is no way Batman would even attempt a close range confrontation with basic knowledge of such a beast.

I believe tranqs would be his first and only realistic method of taking Preston down. Tranqs are silent. Batman is a master of hiding in the shadows. It's his only choice.

The idea of Preston shooting and killing Batman after hit by a tranq is dependent on whether Batman is smart enough with his basic knowledge to move behind solid cover after launching the tranq. Which is slower than a bullet.

I still think Batman wins Round 1. 1. Why would he even know what a grammaton cleric is? It's a title that exists only in their world as far is i know. 2. Even if he did the job description would probably be something along the lines of a very highly ranked cop, Bane sounds much scarier.

He did with Bane while having been retired for years, injured and having been warned about him on top of that, Batman is not the smartest fighter.


Batman doesn't always do what is best or the most realistic approach.


Assuming batman doesn't get hit before he fires or as he fires by Preston's gun-Kata.

I don't, I think he would lose badly not nearly as bad as round 2 but still badly.

Lol. I could kill Batman in Round 1.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
1. Why would he even know what a grammaton cleric is? It's a title that exists only in their world as far is i know. 2. Even if he did the job description would probably be something along the lines of a very highly ranked cop, Bane sounds much scarier.

He did with Bane while having been retired for years, injured and having been warned about him on top of that, Batman is not the smartest fighter.


Batman doesn't always do what is best or the most realistic approach.


Assuming batman doesn't get hit before he fires or as he fires by Preston's gun-Kata.

I don't, I think he would lose badly not nearly as bad as round 2 but still badly.

Forum rules dictate basic knowledge of each opponent.
A Grammaton Cleric his the ability of Gun Kata. We assume both characters exist in both worlds with basic knowledge of what the other is.

Batman with such limited knowledge would definitely approach the battle with much more caution as he did with Bane.
Who he perceived as being nothing more than a common terrorist, much to his downfall.

Wrong. Tranqs are silent and once launched give Batman enough time to duck behind any kind of solid cover. Tranqs are obviously slower than bullets so once Preston is hit and launches his own assault Batman is fine.

I still think Batman has a good chance based on tech and basic knowledge of what a Grammaton Cleric can do.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Lol. I could kill Batman in Round 1.

lolz. No you can't.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Forum rules dictate basic knowledge of each opponent.
A Grammaton Cleric his the ability of Gun Kata. We assume both characters exist in both worlds with basic knowledge of what the other is.

Batman with such limited knowledge would definitely approach the battle with much more caution as he did with Bane.
Who he perceived as being nothing more than a common terrorist, much to his downfall.

Wrong. Tranqs are silent and once launched give Batman enough time to duck behind any kind of solid cover. Tranqs are obviously slower than bullets so once Preston is hit and launches his own assault Batman is fine.

I still think Batman has a good chance based on tech and basic knowledge of what a Grammaton Cleric can do.



lolz. No you can't. As i said a grammaton cleric is basically a high ranking cop, Him knowing anything more than that imo would not be basic knowledge.

What i get from your posts is that you think batman get's some gauge of preston's skill with his basic knowledge and that is why he would fight the way you think he would, But i disagree he would get a gauge of Preston's skill with just basic knowledge.

If he only perceived bane as a common terrorist even after alfred's warning then batman is a retard, and i have an even harder time seeing him fight with the level of caution you suggest.

Your assuming Preston jut let's him move around and shoot freely without putting up any kind of resistance which is ridiculous.

H doesn't have knowledge of what a grammaton cleric can do he has knowledge of what preston can do.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
As i said a grammaton cleric is basically a high ranking cop, Him knowing anything more than that imo would not be basic knowledge.

What i get from your posts is that you think batman get's some gauge of preston's skill with his basic knowledge and that is why he would fight the way you think he would, But i disagree he would get a gauge of Preston's skill with just basic knowledge.

If he only perceived bane as a common terrorist even after alfred's warning then batman is a retard, and i have an even harder time seeing him fight with the level of caution you suggest.

Your assuming Preston jut let's him move around and shoot freely without putting up any kind of resistance which is ridiculous.

H doesn't have knowledge of what a grammaton cleric can do he has knowledge of what preston can do.

Lol wut? Alot of mess in your answer.

Batman perceived Bane as a threat regardless of Alfred's warning agreed.

That was his famous downfall. That he would simply "fight harder". Which failed.

But a basic knowledge of what a Grammaton Cleric can achieve in a world where Gun Kata exists!!!!

Batman would definitely hold caution to that!

I will say that fighting Bane face to face like that was what Bats chose to do AFTER he was fooled into a physical confrontation in the first place. For all we know he planned on stalking and taking out Bane in another manner

Everyone's talking that Preston getting tranq'd is a point to Baleman.
Seriously?

So Preston wakes up, realises that Baleman has a "doesn't kill" rule & just pursues him again & again.

Preston has also more agility & stealth compared to someone wearing a Bat suit.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Everyone's talking that Preston getting tranq'd is a point to Baleman.
Seriously?

So Preston wakes up, realises that Baleman has a "doesn't kill" rule & just pursues him again & again.

Preston has also more agility & stealth compared to someone wearing a Bat suit.

1. This isn't to the death.

2. Batman is just gonna leave him laying on the floor and sit next to him until he wakes up? Batman is notorious for trying people up and Preston would be treated the same

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Everyone's talking that Preston getting tranq'd is a point to Baleman.
Seriously?

So Preston wakes up, realises that Baleman has a "doesn't kill" rule & just pursues him again & again.

Preston has also more agility & stealth compared to someone wearing a Bat suit.

KO counts as wins.

Originally posted by juggerman
I will say that fighting Bane face to face like that was what Bats chose to do AFTER he was fooled into a physical confrontation in the first place. For all we know he planned on stalking and taking out Bane in another manner

True. Though no excuse for Batman not using a basic weapon in his arsenal.
If he didn't take tranqs into the sewers then it was an odd choice.

The first round either goes to Preston, or a draw via which Batman hits him with a tranq and Preston simultaneously shoots him in the face

Batman's odds in the second round

Originally posted by Lestov16
The first round either goes to Preston, or a draw via which Batman hits him with a tranq and Preston simultaneously shoots him in the face

Batman's odds in the second round

Fight takes place in the Vatican. Batman can launch the tranq then quickly go behind cover.

Preston will tag him. Dude's God when wielding a firearm.

The tranq is silent and from a distance and isn't as fast as a bullet.

Once the tranq hits. Hiding behind a pillar or wall will protect Batman form any resulting retaliation from Preston.

Originally posted by the ninjak
KO counts as wins.



Putting someone to sleep is considered a KO?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Fight takes place in the Vatican. Batman can launch the tranq then quickly go behind cover. Batman is a *****.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Putting someone to sleep is considered a KO?

Yes. If they cannot continue it's a loss

EDIT: But even if it didn't Bats could tie him up, wait for him to awaken, and punch him until an actual KO happens

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Putting someone to sleep is considered a KO?

Yup. Why wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Mindset
Batman is a *****.

True.

Originally posted by the ninjak
True. Though no excuse for Batman not using a basic weapon in his arsenal.
If he didn't take tranqs into the sewers then it was an odd choice.

He was trying to prove Alfred wrong. But since he never used them before i think it's only fair to assume he did not have them until later.

Originally posted by juggerman

EDIT: But even if it didn't Bats could tie him up, wait for him to awaken, and punch him until an actual KO happens

Oh yeah...I forgot Bats is prone to violently beating up the helpless.

Preston wins

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Oh yeah...I forgot Bats is prone to violently beating up the helpless.

You mean exactly what he did to Joker in jail? Or Meroni on the fire escape? Yeah you know what you're talking about here

Originally posted by juggerman
You mean exactly what he did to Joker in jail? Or Meroni on the fire escape? Yeah you know what you're talking about here

I take it you're referring to the Nolan movies?

Bats had every reason to bash The Joker (prior killings & intimidation of a loved one)....yet it's never been established in this thread the reason WHY Preston & Batman is fighting IE: nothing to suggest Bats would go to the extreme of beating a tied-up Preston.

And Meroni on the fire escape?
Yeah Bats tied him up, hang him upside down....and YELLED at him.
So you associate yelling & getting punched in the face as the same thing?

Lastly, Batman's traits & personalities were established a very very long time before Nolan came into the scene.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I take it you're referring to the Nolan movies?

Bats had every reason to bash The Joker (prior killings & intimidation of a loved one)....yet it's never been established in this thread the reason WHY Preston & Batman is fighting IE: nothing to suggest Bats would go to the extreme of beating a tied-up Preston.

And Meroni on the fire escape?
Yeah Bats tied him up, hang him upside down....and YELLED at him.
So you associate yelling & getting punched in the face as the same thing?

Lastly, Batman's traits & personalities were established a very very long time before Nolan came into the scene.

You take it correctly

He has every reason to bash Preston if sleeping agent doesn't count. He has to win and if punching his opponent to sleep is how to win he'll do it. The alternative is Preston killing the Bat.

Learn the characters please. Meroni was the guy he threw off the fire escape and broke his ankle. way to prove you have no clue wtf you're talking about.

Right cuz it's been established that Batman would take a 8 year vacation. Nolan took liberties with this character at all

Originally posted by juggerman


Meroni was the guy he threw off the fire escape and broke his ankle. way to prove you have no clue wtf you're talking about.



Wrong movie. My mistake.
I've alot of respect & admiration for Begins but the other 2 movies were pretty meh IMO.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Wrong movie. My mistake.
I've alot of respect & admiration for Begins but the other 2 movies were pretty meh IMO.

I loved Begins and I feel like Bale was the best Batman in it. Dark Knight is my fav due mostly to Joker. Returns was a let down