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I personally think Ozy would beat The First Avenger Cap.. Probably split with WS or lose a slight majority. AOU Cap I would think wins. So... If Ozy has help from WS can they both beat Cap h2h?

Definitely.

He can beat both solo, but I don't see him taking both on at once and winning. Bucky was matching Steve virtually move for move in both their encounters. Some people say Steve held back during their second fight, but he had no idea who WS was during their first encounter, and he didn't have any easier time there either.

Cap two-shots Ozy and beats Bucky after a good fight.

You realize that First Avenger Cap and AOU Cap are the same person, right?

Ozy's never been hit by anybody as hard as Cap will hit him. He's probably got a glass jaw lol. You don't know how to take a punch until you actually get punched and Ozy only fought people below his level by a good margin. And the closest he got was Comedian who at that point was like 15 years past his prime, and a raging alcoholic.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You realize that First Avenger Cap and AOU Cap are the same person, right?

Not on this forum they aren't. If the OP states Cap from FA.. than only his feats count. Which is EXACTLY why we specify which movie we are using. So no, if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy.. that doesn't mean you get to use feats from AOU... are you claiming you can?

By all means, provide a quote from Imp that states FA and AOU Cap are two different people and thus feats from one can't be used for the other.

Are you doing your dumb routine or are you being genuine. Point me to any place where I said they were two different characters. This is how I know when I get you... You come back with something I never said and a question I never presented. I ASKED YOU... if I SPECIFY that we are using cap from FA... are YOU claiming you can use feats from AOU? Simple question.

The point he's making is that Cap from FA is the same cap from AoU. There is no difference whatsoever aside from movie. So anything he did in AoU or WS or Avengers should be doable by FA Cap.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you doing your dumb routine or are you being genuine. Point me to any place where I said they were two different characters. This is how I know when I get you... You come back with something I never said and a question I never presented. I ASKED YOU... if I SPECIFY that we are using cap from FA... are YOU claiming you can use feats from AOU? Simple question.

Easily done, I asked if you knew they were the same person and the very first sentence in your response has you claiming that they are in fact not the same person.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not on this forum they aren't. If the OP states Cap from FA.. than only his feats count. Which is EXACTLY why we specify which movie we are using. So no, if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy.. that doesn't mean you get to use feats from AOU... are you claiming you can?

Originally posted by KingD19
The point he's making is that Cap from FA is the same cap from AoU. There is no difference whatsoever aside from movie. So anything he did in AoU or WS or Avengers should be doable by FA Cap.

I very much understand the point he's making, but it's irrelevant to the discussion. I never claimed they were two different characters. The point is, if I specify FA Cap, then the OP guidelines must be respected. Just because it's the same character doesn't he can't improve just like anybody else. Time and experience can make anybody better.. including Cap. Stop trying to break the forum rules. If a specific character from a specific movie is the one the OP intends to be in the thread.. then those are the only feats that you can use. Period. Stop trying to make this about me not understanding his point, which I do, when in fact this about his point being wrong.

I just posted a quote proving that you did indeed claim that they were different characters.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Easily done, I asked if you knew they were the same person and the very first sentence in your response has you claiming that they are in fact not the same person.

So it's the dumb routine. I never said they were two different people.. that sentence refers to the fact that we CAN distinguish characters from different movies and only use feats for a specific movie. You've now avoided the question for the second time...

IF I Specify I want Cap from the FA movie and his feats only... are you claiming we can use WS feats?

Again, I just posted the quote proving that you claimed that they were different people, lying about it at this point just makes you look dumb.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I just posted a quote proving that you did indeed claim that they were different characters.

NO you didn't, you reading comprehension failed you again. I said, not on this forum they aren't.. If somebody ONLY wants a CAP from FA.. then his feats from WS aren't admissible for him as a character. It doesn't matter if they are the same or not. If the OP specifically says you can only use this movie... all other movies from him don't exist anymore. It's only that movie. I never, not one time, said they were two different characters.

The whole point is that Cap has been the same through all the movies. He just performed different feats in them. There's been no mention of a boost, or upgrade, or alteration to his powers, so the only conclusion is that he's simply doing more as time goes on.

Would you say Beatrix Kiddo couldn't do the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique in Kill Bill 1 since she only did it in 2? Despite it being made very clear Pai Mei taught her the technique far before the events of the movie even happened?

Here is me asking if you're aware that they are the same person.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You realize that First Avenger Cap and AOU Cap are the same person, right?

Here is you claiming that they aren't the same person.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not on this forum they aren't. If the OP states Cap from FA.. than only his feats count. Which is EXACTLY why we specify which movie we are using. So no, if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy.. that doesn't mean you get to use feats from AOU... are you claiming you can?

You posted zero quotes where I claimed they were different. The quote you keep quoting has to do with no they aren't the same on this forum. If somebody specifies FA... then those are the ONLY feats you can use. The other movies might as well not exist. They might as well be a totally different character. It was very clear what I was saying, as I've kept on saying the same thing. Now answer my question

Sure I did, I'll post it again
----------------------------------

Here is me asking if you're aware that they are the same person.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You realize that First Avenger Cap and AOU Cap are the same person, right?

Here is you claiming that they aren't the same person.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not on this forum they aren't. If the OP states Cap from FA.. than only his feats count. Which is EXACTLY why we specify which movie we are using. So no, if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy.. that doesn't mean you get to use feats from AOU... are you claiming you can?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Here is me asking if you're aware that they are the same person.



Here is you claiming that they aren't the same person.

The big clue for you clueless was the part where I said ON THIS FORUM no they aren't. Which very clearly means, if somebody says FA Cap, that is the only Cap that exists for the purposes of that thread. No other Cap exists.

Would you like a mod ruling on this?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You posted zero quotes where I claimed they were different. The quote you keep quoting has to do with no they aren't the same on this forum. If somebody specifies FA... then those are the ONLY feats you can use. The other movies might as well not exist. They might as well be a totally different character. It was very clear what I was saying, as I've kept on saying the same thing. Now answer my question

Originally posted by KingD19
The whole point is that Cap has been the same through all the movies. He just performed different feats in them. There's been no mention of a boost, or upgrade, or alteration to his powers, so the only conclusion is that he's simply doing more as time goes on.

Would you say Beatrix Kiddo couldn't do the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique in Kill Bill 1 since she only did it in 2? Despite it being made very clear Pai Mei taught her the technique far before the events of the movie even happened?

Irrelevant. Would you also like a mod ruling on this? It doesn't matter what you believe to be so. If a OP SPECIFICALLY WANTS TO USE THE FEATS FROM ONE PARTICULAR MOVIE AND EXCLUDE ALL OTHERS... ARE YOU CLAIMING HE CAN'T DO THAT AND ALL FEATS ARE ALLLOWED REGARDLESS? Is that your claim? I don't care what you believe or what I believe.. What I'm asking you is... can a OP specify which feats he wants used or not?

Never mind the fact that even in real life people are the same. Do you think the Manny Pac of the Morales fight is the same Manny Pac of the Hatton fight? They are the same person, he didn't get cloned or taken by aliens, nobody is claiming he different. Yet, he's a very different fighter. So on boxing threads (which you clearly never visited) If I say Manny Pac from Morales 1 vs. Floyd from Castillo.. you don't think I'm specifically looking for a Manny at this skill level at this point in time vs. Floyd with the same criteria? really? Do you honestly not understand the difference.

This forum does consider them the same character, which only makes sense, as they are in fact the same character.

Get a mod ruling, I don't care. Then either we will be proved right, or you will. Then the matter will be done, and you can stop trying to yell at us over the computer.

Where was this adherence to only sticking to the specific movies' feats when, in the Captain America vs Logan thread a while back, you literally tried to make up feats for Logan, based on what you personally felt must have happened off screen in between The Wolverine and DoFP? Seems you want certain characters to only be limited to the feats you want at any given time, but for other characters you want to be allowed to interpret and make assumptions as you please.

Shut up, Kurupt.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Where was this adherence to only sticking to the specific movies' feats when, in the Captain America vs Logan thread a while back, you literally tried to make up feats for Logan, based on what you personally felt must have happened off screen in between The Wolverine and DoFP? Seems you want certain characters to only be limited to the feats you want at any given time, but for other characters you want to be allowed to interpret and make assumptions as you please.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312/BippuStyling/avatar40.gif

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He can beat both solo, but I don't see him taking both on at once and winning. Bucky was matching Steve virtually move for move in both their encounters. Some people say Steve held back during their second fight, but he had no idea who WS was during their first encounter, and he didn't have any easier time there either.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up, Kurupt.

cap gets taken down, hard

don't care what youthink you say about cap holding back against buck boy because as Vault stated earlier he was having a hard time before knowing WS was Bucky

bucky is Par with cap and Ozy is the perfect tag team partner to help blind side Cap and beat his skull in with his own shield

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I very much understand the point he's making, but it's irrelevant to the discussion. I never claimed they were two different characters. The point is, if I specify FA Cap, then the OP guidelines must be respected. Why should anyone respect such a stupid, arbitrary distinction? There's no difference, and if the OP wants to pretend that there's a difference he's being a douchebag.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Where was this adherence to only sticking to the specific movies' feats when, in the Captain America vs Logan thread a while back, you literally tried to make up feats for Logan, based on what you personally felt must have happened off screen in between The Wolverine and DoFP? Seems you want certain characters to only be limited to the feats you want at any given time, but for other characters you want to be allowed to interpret and make assumptions as you please.

Negative buddy, and you know better is the point. In the very thread you mentioned, it was simply Wolverine vs. _____ . In those instances, you can use whatever Wolverine feats you want, as it was never specified WHICH Wolverine. However, when the OP specifies WHICH Wolverine he wants used, then no, not all feats apply. You've been around here long enough to know this. Are you claiming that if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy is the same as me saying Cap vs. Ozy.. are you actually claiming there is no difference between the two threads?

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up, Kurupt.

Thanos is smarter than Doom

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why should anyone respect such a stupid, arbitrary distinction? There's no difference, and if the OP wants to pretend that there's a difference he's being a douchebag.

So if a OP makes a thread of

FA Cap vs. Ozy

or

Cap vs. Ozy


You see those threads as exactly the same thing?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Where was this adherence to only sticking to the specific movies' feats when, in the Captain America vs Logan thread a while back, you literally tried to make up feats for Logan, based on what you personally felt must have happened off screen in between The Wolverine and DoFP? Seems you want certain characters to only be limited to the feats you want at any given time, but for other characters you want to be allowed to interpret and make assumptions as you please.

Yup, I remember that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So if a OP makes a thread of

FA Cap vs. Ozy

or

Cap vs. Ozy


You see those threads as exactly the same thing?


OP never made the distinction. You're just assuming/telling us he did, yet ignoring that the only Captain America movie he could have used at the time was FA. When it's just one movie, he's not making a distinction which movie it is, he's stating the name of the movie.

He didn't make the distinction between Sin City Marv and A Dame to Kill For Marv...because ONLY Sin City existed at the time.

Originally posted by KingD19
OP never made the distinction. You're just assuming/telling us he did, yet ignoring that the only Captain America movie he could have used at the time was FA. When it's just one movie, he's not making a distinction which movie it is, he's stating the name of the movie.

He didn't make the distinction between Sin City Marv and A Dame to Kill For Marv...because ONLY Sin City existed at the time.

Incorrect, YOU are the only person here assuming anything. He flat out says in the OP which CAP he's using does he not? He SPECIFICALLY and without and ambiguity says.. FA Cap. Period. You are the one then extrapolating from that, not me. YOU'RE the one going well.... That was the only movie made at the time.. thus he's likely wanting to include all Cap's feats. Is that not you who's is extrapolating that in order for your premise to be correct? I need to extrapolate nothing, not a single thing. I'm going by EXACTLY what the OP says, he says it's FA Cap. That is the Cap I'm using. In order to believe he meant all Cap's, that would be YOU assuming such. Now either back up your claim or concede who's doing the assuming here. Again, you didn't answer my question... Are those threads the same in the example I used?

He wasn't restricting feats, he was just identifying the movie where Cap appeared.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Negative buddy, and you know better is the point. In the very thread you mentioned, it was simply Wolverine vs. _____ . In those instances, you can use whatever Wolverine feats you want, as it was never specified WHICH Wolverine. However, when the OP specifies WHICH Wolverine he wants used, then no, not all feats apply. You've been around here long enough to know this. Are you claiming that if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy is the same as me saying Cap vs. Ozy.. are you actually claiming there is no difference between the two threads?

So straight up lying now as well? It was Captain America VS Wolverine and you tried to claim that Wolverine fought and killed MULTIPLE future sentinels, based on your personal speculation on what happened between The Wolverine and DoFP. I can link the thread if you really want to go there, but you shouldn't if you want to save yourself some embarrassment. And you didn't just use his feats in anyways. You fabricated some.

And LOL at you trying to flip the argument because you got pushed in a corner. Where did I make ANY claims here? All I am doing is showing your double standards. You will discard feats when it suits you and find excuses, like in Marv vs Cap, or like the time you tried to write off the Cap VS Ultron fight as PIS (I remember because I facepalmed hard), but literally want feats you dreamed up to be counted as evidence in matches.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The big clue for you clueless was the part where I said ON THIS FORUM no they aren't. Which very clearly means, if somebody says FA Cap, that is the only Cap that exists for the purposes of that thread. No other Cap exists.

Would you like a mod ruling on this? If a mod rules that you're right, it doesn't make you right. It just makes the mod a dumbass.

Not to worry, There is no way a mod will actually rule that FA Cap and Avengers Cap are two completely different characters.

For all that threat of a mod ruling, I thought he would have gotten one by now.

Because KT likely hasn't actually asked for one, as he knows that FA and Avengers Cap are the same person, regardless of whether or not the Op restricts feats to a certain movie.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So straight up lying now as well? It was Captain America VS Wolverine and you tried to claim that Wolverine fought and killed MULTIPLE future sentinels, based on your personal speculation on what happened between The Wolverine and DoFP. I can link the thread if you really want to go there, but you shouldn't if you want to save yourself some embarrassment. And you didn't just use his feats in anyways. You fabricated some.

And LOL at you trying to flip the argument because you got pushed in a corner. Where did I make ANY claims here? All I am doing is showing your double standards. You will discard feats when it suits you and find excuses, like in Marv vs Cap, or like the time you tried to write off the Cap VS Ultron fight as PIS (I remember because I facepalmed hard), but literally want feats you dreamed up to be counted as evidence in matches.

Red Herring much Vault? You're claiming two ENTIRELY different things. The argument HERE is whether a OP which states FA CAP vs. Ozy is the same as somebody who makes the thread Cap vs. Ozy. THAT and THAT alone is the argument. Your wolverine stance and whatever speculation I might have used, has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. You claim, this is what happens when I get backed into a corner, when in fact, this is what happens when YOU get backed into a corner. One has literally NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. If find a thread where I discard the OP and use all of somebody's feats and claim that is okay.. yet here I'm saying it's not.. THEN you'd have a double standard. Instead, in your desperation you tried to find somebody totally unrelated to the discussion at hand, because you can't win the discussion at hand on your own merit.

BTW, at which point did I deny anything about that thread in question. I never said I didn't use some speculation in re: Sentinels and Wolverine. Show me where I said I didn't? The fact is, I used much more facts than any speculation, and trying to make it seem otherwise is blatantly being disingenuous.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not to worry, There is no way a mod will actually rule that FA Cap and Avengers Cap are two completely different characters.

You're a moron. I never said they are two completely different characters. The mod ruling would be about what you're disagreeing with... Which is, if a OP states FA Cap... your claim is that all of Cap feats from all movies count. Which by default is incorrect and goes against the OP. That is what the ruling would be on. Absolutely nothing about this made up red herring you've gone on about how you think I said they are two different characters, when at no point did I say that. All I said was, if somebody specifies FA Cap, than all other Cap movies might as well not exists and he might as well be a different character. Those feats are null and void. However, you're to stupid to grasp that. Actually you're not too dumb, you just lost the argument at hand, and have nothing to back up your stance, so you decide to grasp at whatever straw you can to get away from you losing the original discussion.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Because KT likely hasn't actually asked for one, as he knows that FA and Avengers Cap are the same person, regardless of whether or not the Op restricts feats to a certain movie.

Never made a claim otherwise. How does it feel to lose to me once again?

I can easily quote where you claim that FA and Avengers Cap are different characters, in fact I have already done so at least twice in the other thread.

You taking an out of context quote which doesn't mean what you say it means, tells us what? It tells us nothing. I never, not once made the claim they were two different characters in a general sense. What I did claim, and the quote you keep referring to said is.... IF a OP states FA Cap.. then those other Cap movies might as well not exist or be different characters entirely. They are applicable to that thread. Call them different... say they don't exist.. I could care less. But they are inadmissible for a thread which specifies which Cap is being used. I've said this over and over again. If you come back and say I made the claim that they are two different characters in a general sense.. then... I can't deal with that level of stupidity and blatant lying. I'll simply put you on ignore. Something many others have done, and I probably should've a long time ago with your lying and trolling, but it was amusing sometimes. However, if you're to keep misrepresenting what I was saying... nah... We'll just save us both trouble and I'll put you on ignore.

It's not out of context, I asked if you knew that they were the same character and you answered "No, they're not".

I wasn't referring to your question at all. I was saying they AREN'T the same character for purposes of this thread. If said the same thing over and over again. Stop acting like I didn't make my stance perfectly clear. I've said, now 10 times, what the context of the quote refers to. It has nothing to do with them being different characters in a general sense. I was referring to the fact, that if a OP states FA Cap, then yes WS and AOU Cap either don't exist or are entirely different characters for the purposes OF THAT THREAD. I don't care which you choose, but they can't be used. Period. As I said, I've corrected the context you keep missing like 10 times now. Instead of accepting what I've said over and over, you keep repeating a view I've never had nor expressed. Even if you were confused on what I meant before, I've now clarified, what was meant. So why wouldn't that end the discussion? Instead, you've lost the original discussion, and now need to continuing repeat a view I've never had and corrected you on. Why?: Because you lost the other argument. As I stated. Repeat again that I feel they are two different characters in a general sense. That's all I care about. Repeat that, and we'll both be saved trouble. However, I'm not going to tolerate you keep repeating a stance I never expressed and took what I said out of context. It's that simple. I won't stand for that.

No, you said they weren't the same character.

Cool, ignore

Here is me asking if you're aware that FA and AOU Cap are the same person.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You realize that First Avenger Cap and AOU Cap are the same person, right?

Here is you stating that they aren't the same person. you setting feat restrictions doesn't magically make them different characters.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not on this forum they aren't. If the OP states Cap from FA.. than only his feats count. Which is EXACTLY why we specify which movie we are using. So no, if I say FA Cap vs. Ozy.. that doesn't mean you get to use feats from AOU... are you claiming you can?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Red Herring much Vault? You're claiming two ENTIRELY different things. The argument HERE is whether a OP which states FA CAP vs. Ozy is the same as somebody who makes the thread Cap vs. Ozy. THAT and THAT alone is the argument. Your wolverine stance and whatever speculation I might have used, has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. You claim, this is what happens when I get backed into a corner, when in fact, this is what happens when YOU get backed into a corner. One has literally NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. If find a thread where I discard the OP and use all of somebody's feats and claim that is okay.. yet here I'm saying it's not.. THEN you'd have a double standard. Instead, in your desperation you tried to find somebody totally unrelated to the discussion at hand, because you can't win the discussion at hand on your own merit.

BTW, at which point did I deny anything about that thread in question. I never said I didn't use some speculation in re: Sentinels and Wolverine. Show me where I said I didn't? The fact is, I used much more facts than any speculation, and trying to make it seem otherwise is blatantly being disingenuous.

You literally said it was in a different thread. That's a lie. LOL at you using fact.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=611757&pagenumber=3

You said that because he survived that long he must have killed a bunch of them. By that logic, so did Kitty, Xavier, Colossus, Magneto, Ice Man, Warpath, Sunspot and Blink. In which case the Sentinels would not have been a threat at all.

Where did I post in this thread about versions of Cap? You might be discussing TFA Cap vs Ozy compared to Cap vs Ozy with others, but I am not. I am questioning your credibility as a poster when it comes to these things, because you want your personal opinions to be accepted as fact, as seen in other threads. You wanted the Cap vs Ultron fight to be mostly ignored because YOU feel it was PIS. You want to claim Logan beat future sentinels, because YOU feel he must have done so, off screen. You aren't even on topic here, because you have hardly addressed your own OP, despite multiple posts. I honestly think you just made this topic purely for the sake of stirring up needless crap.

Also, if you continue to act like making a new Cap vs Ozy thread, after all the films are out, and with clearly specified limits, is the same as a 4-year-old thread which predates many of the films, with a missing starter, and no clear statement in the OP saying TFA feats "only", you shouldn't be surprised if people don't take you seriously, or flat out ignore you. Because those two scenarios are vastly different. For all we know, the OP could still come back at some point and say he wants the other films to be included now, where as with your scenario Cap has very clearly been limited to one film out of many.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, if you continue to act like making a new Cap vs Ozy thread, after all the films are out, and with clearly specified limits, is the same as a 4-year-old thread which predates many of the films, with a missing starter, and no clear statement in the OP saying TFA feats "only", you shouldn't be surprised if people don't take you seriously, or flat out ignore you. Because those two scenarios are vastly different. For all we know, the OP could still come back at some point and say he wants the other films to be included now, where as with your scenario Cap has very clearly been limited to one film out of many. To be fair the OP could also come in and say the only TFA feats are usable.

Also why does that have anything to do with this thread? It is pretty clear this is a continuation of a debate in another thread.

I never said otherwise. Point is one scenario was vague and needed Mod's input. The other scenario very clearly defines parameters with which existing films are to be used or not.

Because even the OP has not been on topic here, because this is a non-thread (the team obviously wins).

How many posts have actually been on topic, and how many of those were by KT?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, if you continue to act like making a new Cap vs Ozy thread, after all the films are out, and with clearly specified limits, is the same as a 4-year-old thread which predates many of the films, with a missing starter, and no clear statement in the OP saying TFA feats "only", you shouldn't be surprised if people don't take you seriously, or flat out ignore you. Because those two scenarios are vastly different. For all we know, the OP could still come back at some point and say he wants the other films to be included now, where as with your scenario Cap has very clearly been limited to one film out of many.

Point me to any place where I said such a thing. I never claimed those instances were the same. Not once. They aren't exactly the same, but the overriding principal is the same. If the OP states FA Cap, that is the Cap we're using. Period, end of story. He specifically and with ambiguity mentioned which Cap he wanted used. I don't care that it was a 4 year old thread and he could've wanted more of Cap's feats used. Maybe he would. However, that requires speculation and proof to back up said claim, which as of now, you have yet to produce. You have zero idea what his intent is now that more movies are out. So in the absence of him clarifying, we literally have zero choice but to go with exactly what he said. FA CAP. If I make a thread saying FA Cap, by no means do I need to say only his feats from that movie count. It's beyond idiotic to think that is required. By saying FA CAP, that IS what it already means. That is WHAT happens when you specify a specific movie for a character. If you wanted all Cap movie feats to count.. you'd simply say Cap... as we routinely see all the time. So let me just understand your logic, or in the case, stupidity. You believe that

FA Cap vs. Ozy

and

Cap vs. Ozy


Mean the exact same thing... that both threads mean all Cap's feats can be used. A simply yes or no.