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Could so few, defeat so many?

Balrog could solo that army, the one thing that might be the game changer were the giant rock-worms, but we didn't see them do much.

"Swords are no more use here."

Balrog solos.

Granted Gandalf's sword is no normal sword by any means, it's far from normal. But really, it's still a sword. That is all we see Gandalf use to defeat the Balrog. Granted more stuff could've happened off panel, but if we can't use the book, all we're left with is what we see. So maybe Swords can kill him if we just go by the movie, yet that is in direct contradiction to the line Ares quoted.

He had a magical sword and only ended up killing it after imbuing it with lightning. Rank and file die by the score.

Exactly.

There's also the problem of any orc getting close enough without being burned to death, considering the Balrog is in part composed of flame.

Before anyone says 'But Gandalf got close', he's immune to fire (at least by the events of Fellowship)as seen a couple times and hinting at the reason as to why during his pre-fight speech. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor."

Army of Sauron, easily.

Balrog seems to be an odd choice here, seeing as he's above pretty much everyone else here

He'd prolly solo, if he wasn't here then Team 1 would prolly lose

Balrog cleans house.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Balrog seems to be an odd choice here, seeing as he's above pretty much everyone else here

He'd prolly solo, if he wasn't here then Team 1 would prolly lose

Agreed it was odd, but my thought process was that there were some BIG beasts with Sauron's army. Plus, as I stated early, if we just go by the movie (requirement for this forum) Gandalf stiff killed him with a sword. Granted from the books we know it was no ordinary sword. However, this was never mentioned in the movie. So if we go by it just being a sword.... than why couldn't a huge army eventually kill him with weapons?

As I stated, I think the Balrog would Solo if we're able to use the books as references. However, I figured there'd be a few who would argue that a sword killed him blah blah blah and thus there would be a discussion. Guess not.

Balrog gets rocked. Lol at the people saying he solos over Sauron's army.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agreed it was odd, but my thought process was that there were some BIG beasts with Sauron's army. Plus, as I stated early, if we just go by the movie (requirement for this forum) Gandalf stiff killed him with a sword. Granted from the books we know it was no ordinary sword. However, this was never mentioned in the movie. So if we go by it just being a sword.... than why couldn't a huge army eventually kill him with weapons?

As I stated, I think the Balrog would Solo if we're able to use the books as references. However, I figured there'd be a few who would argue that a sword killed him blah blah blah and thus there would be a discussion. Guess not.

Gandalf's sword is magical in the film and the killing blow came after days of fighting via lightning charged attack. It was very specific that Gandalf using his magic to call down and infuse the sword with lighting was the reason the Balrog died.

I don't see anything in Suaron's army replicating this or using some similar tactic and if they could somehow, they'd still need to get close enough to strike a being who is covered in flames. Last I checked, orcs, goblins, goblin-men, worgs, trolls etc. all burn.

The one unknown were the giant rock-worms, but they didn't do anything in the films.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf's sword is magical in the film and the killing blow came after days of fighting via lightning charged attack. It was very specific that Gandalf using his magic to call down and infuse the sword with lighting was the reason the Balrog died.

I don't see anything in Suaron's army replicating this or using some similar tactic and if they could somehow, they'd still need to get close enough to strike a being who is covered in flames. Last I checked, orcs, goblins, goblin-men, worgs, trolls etc. all burn.

The one unknown were the giant rock-worms, but they didn't do anything in the films.

Can you post the clip again... I never remember it being stated or shown that he imbedded his sword with lighting. Not saying you're wrong, but I just don't remember the scene clearly.

Another question... those giant beats that were hurdling rocks and dale to breach the walls... what would happen if they keep lobbing rocks and Balrog... would you say it would be invulnerable to them?

Glad to. It's one of the most epic fantasy battles ever put on the big screen:

44kBN340vd4


The Balrog is ridiculously durable, it fell several kilometers straight down into a pool of water, at those heights, hitting water is lethal.

We're literally pitting a massive demon against an army composed mostly of fodder who couldn't get close to its body without being burned to death.

edit: Also notice how it's able to create fire on solid rock around itself 1:15-1:25

Originally posted by Robtard
Glad to. It's one of the most epic fantasy battles ever put on the big screen:

44kBN340vd4


The Balrog is ridiculously durable, it fell several kilometers straight down into a pool of water, at those heights, hitting water is lethal.

We're literally pitting a massive demon against an army composed mostly of fodder who couldn't get close to its body without being burned to death.

edit: Also notice how it's able to create fire on solid rock around itself 1:15-1:25

Thanks for posting that. I agree he did use lighting to enhance his sword. Though some things to note:

1. I don't think he's immune to fire. The speech about fire seemed more like a spell to me. As soon as he said that, a protective shield started to glow around him and protected him from the sword strike. I don't think that means he's immune to fire.

2. Also of note, and granted we probably can't use this, but the Balrog as Tolkien saw him (Granted they evolved a few times) was never about fire at all, nor would anybody get burned by them in battle. Since we don't see anybody burned by the Balrog here, we might be able to say, maybe that was for dramatic effect as opposed to actual fire burning people if they got close to him. Just food for thought

Np. Gandalf is immune to fire by the events of Fellowship, in the later film Saruman throws a fireball at him and Gandalf laughs it off.

Fire burns, we know this. It's silly to assume "fire doesn't burn unless shown", that's a troll tactic. We can even see the heat distortions (01:30) in the air of the heat emanating off the Balrog in a few scenes and the smoke is another indicator of there being burning/heat.

Originally posted by Robtard
Np. Gandalf is immune to fire by the events of Fellowship, in the later film Saruman throws a fireball at him and Gandalf laughs it off.

Fire burns, we know this. It's silly to assume "fire doesn't burn unless shown", that's a troll tactic. We can even see the heat distortions (01:30) in the air of the heat emanating off the Balrog in a few scenes and the smoke is another indicator of there being burning/heat.

Which scene did Saruman throw a fireball at him. I can't recall that scene either. But the speech you just referenced which you say indicates he's immune to fire... seemed like a spell, not an indication he's immune to fire.

I understand that, but the fact remains that the Balrog's were never about fire under Tolkien. They were never shown burning people just because they were close to them. I understand that is the books. I'm going to look at this distortion you're saying he created.

In the books, Balrog's are spirits of fire.

Anyway, what Gandalf stated was basically that he is a maiar like the Balrog, but serves a greater master. It has nothing to do with him being immune to fire nor was it a spell. With that said, he clearly knows how to defend himself against fire so it's kinda a moot point. And the fireball scene is when Gandalf and Co confront Saurman in RotK.

Can't edit, here's the correct link:

0bG8CVUujhs

As you know Aries, the balrogs went through many changes under Tolkien. My point is, in battle they were just burning people alive if they got near them. Which is the claim here.

Which is kinda irrelevant here since this is the film version where the Balrog is literally on fire. If we bring in the books though, I doubt any of the Orcs have the metaphysical “oomph” or mystical weapons capable of harming the Balrog.

Great scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
Can't edit, here's the correct link:

0bG8CVUujhs

Why did Legolas shoot that guy again... didn't he do everybody a favor and do what others wanted to do to him. Why shoot a killing blow there?

Originally posted by ares834


Great scene.

Very good scene indeed

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why did Legolas shoot that guy again... didn't he do everybody a favor and do what others wanted to do to him. Why shoot a killing blow there?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Gandalf also outright state to Aragorn "Swords have no more use here" So swords is all Sauron's army consists of ?

The majority of Sauron's army consisted of orcs (or similar, goblin, goblin-men) armed with some manner of handheld weapon, sword, axe, spear etc.

Most of Sauron's army are below human level schmucks with medieval weapons

Not an ideal match for an upper tier Maia who cleaned house with a Dwarven Kingdom

First Age characters are way above Third Age characters brah

Originally posted by Robtard
The majority of Sauron's army consisted of orcs (or similar, goblin, goblin-men) armed with some manner of handheld weapon, sword, axe, spear etc. So let's ignore the trolls and the sheer number of them along with their massive weight and size.

Aragorn melee'd a troll

And he ain't shit to any upper tier character in the verse

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Aragorn melee'd a troll

And he ain't shit to any upper tier character in the verse And the fellowship also had to work together to kill one but let's try one better. Gandalf solo'd a Balrog but he hid up a tree when Azog and his crew rolled up despite having allies at his side.

Abc logic is fun.

Trolls get a flaming whip to the snout.

Originally posted by KingD19
Trolls get a flaming whip to the snout. The sheer numerical advantage of the trolls and the orcs would smother the Balrog and his allies. This isn't close.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So let's ignore the trolls and the sheer number of them along with their massive weight and size.

When did I ignore the trolls? I said the majority of Sauron's army were orcs armed with melee weapons, which is true.

As far as the trolls, what exactly are they going to do to the Balrog before it slaughters them with flame blade, whip and fire? It can set stone on fire. Those same trolls were getting killed by dwarves and elves.

As noted, this is the beast that basically solo'd an entire dwarven kingdom.

Originally posted by Robtard
When did I ignore the trolls? I said the majority of Sauron's army were orcs armed with melee weapons, which is true.

As far as the trolls, what exactly are they going to do to the Balrog before it slaughters them with flame blade, whip and fire? Those same trolls were getting killed by dwarves and elves.

As noted, this is the beast that basically solo'd an entire dwarven kingdom. The same guy who defeated the Balrog was fleeing from orcs. Lol. It works both ways. The trolls would hammer the Balrog down who isn't fast or quick at all. Do you really think so little of Sauron's army ?

Smaug did as well but guess what happened to Smaug. He died. These guys aren't invulnerable.

Balrog was basically Smaug level considering they both made Dwarven kingdoms fall to their might.

Originally posted by KingD19
Balrog was basically Smaug level considering they both made Dwarven kingdoms fall to their might. And neither are invulnerable. Balrog was laughably more pathetic compared to Smaug. We actually see Smaug in action but all we see is Gandalf beating Balrog down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The same guy who defeated the Balrog was fleeing from orcs. Lol. It works both ways. The trolls would hammer the Balrog down who isn't fast or quick at all. Do you really think so little of Sauron's army ?

Smaug did as well but guess what happened to Smaug. He died. These guys aren't invulnerable.

They'd have to get close enough to hammer, which isn't likely considering the Balrog is covered in flames and can ignite the floor in flames. Balrog probably wouldn't need to kill most of Sauron's army anyway, considering it made hundreds of goblins flee just by roaring.

Smaug died in a very specific manner via exploiting a weak-spot, the missing scale that was basically over his heart. No one is saying the Balrog is invulnerable, just that Sauron's army lacks the ability with what it has.

Originally posted by Robtard
They'd have to get close enough to hammer, which isn't likely considering the Balrog is covered in flames and can ignite the floor in flames.

Smaug died in a very specific manner via exploiting a weak-spot, the missing scale that was basically over his heart. So post proof of huge walls of fire preventing anyone getting close to the Balrog.

Yes, due to him not being invulnerable either. The difference is the guy who hid up a tree and threw fiery pine cones didn't solo Smaug he took down that bytch ass Balrog.

Already posted the clip on page one, at 1:20 the very ground is aflame.

You're purposely ignoring that Smaug had a very specific weak-spot which was exploited. You're basically trying to use a Red Herring here to avoid that nothing in Sauron's army can kill the Balrog, which has soloing a Dwarven kingdom under its belt. Everyone's having a decent discussion here, so stop doing what you do, k.

Originally posted by Robtard
Already posted the clip on page one, at 1:20 the very ground is aflame.

You're purposely ignoring that Smaug had a very specific weak-spot which was exploited. You're basically trying to use a Red Herring here to avoid that nothing in Sauron's army can kill the Balrog, which has soloing a Dwarven kingdom under its belt. Everyone's having a decent discussion here, so stop doing what you do, k. The trolls could as could sheer numbers especially when organized. You can see trolls smashing into the walls breaking right through them. This Balrog would be hammered. Those aren't huge flames keeping anything from hitting him.

Smaug was superior to the Balrog who got solo's by a pine cone tosser. Off screen isn't that impressive since we don't see it.

Those flames on the ground were easily three times Gandalf's height. So trolls are going to willingly walk into flames and stand toe-to-toe with a being that's a bit bigger than them and happens to also be on fire? Don't see that happening.

How do you supposed the Balrog took down Moira? It wasn't with foul language or politics.

Originally posted by Robtard
So trolls are going to willingly walk into flames and stand toe-to-toe with a being that's a bit bigger than them and happens to also be on fire? Don't see that happening.

How do you supposed the Balrog took down Moira? It wasn't with foul language or politics. They are led into battle and have little intelligence. one smashed into a wall and ko'd himself. The weight, power, and numbers of the trolls would crush the Balrog who couldn't even beat Gandalf to death. Even Saruman bested him.

Dwarves who we don't see skill wise or combat wise. Off screen.

>Trolls smash trough walls
>this being used as a reason to why they beat the Balrog

lolquanchi

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are led into battle and have little intelligence. one smashed into a wall and ko'd himself. The weight, power, and numbers of the trolls would crush the Balrog who couldn't even beat Gandalf to death. Even Saruman bested him.

Dwarves who we don't see skill wise or combat wise. Off screen.

If you're just going to ignore logic and downplay, I see no point. Best of luck hooking someone.

Here are the size of the flames the Balrog can create on the floor around itself, since you questioned it.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee289/GFO106/flames.png

That's besides being set on fire itself and having a flaming sword and whip.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
>Trolls smash trough walls
>this being used as a reason to why they beat the Balrog

lolquanchi Gandalf can't but he beat the Balrog by himself. Toss those fiery pine cones at Azog, Gandalf. A worthless hobbit had more courage than Gandalf in that scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you're just going to ignore logic and downplay, I see no point. Best of luck hooking someone.

Here are the size of the flames the Balrog can create on the floor around itself, since you questioned it.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee289/GFO106/flames.png

That's besides being set on fire itself and having a flaming sword and whip. So you feel he can solo the entire army and they just flee in terror because he can create flames. Oh ffs. Show some respect for Sauron's army.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Herp derp I dun no wut powerscaling is durr downplaying and utlising low end showings as evidence

As I said son, Aragorn was able to melee a troll and Gandalf>>>

And Balrog and Gandalf MAD'd eachother

Are you seriously trying to imply trolls are stronger than Balrogs now

Originally posted by StealthRanger
As I said son, Aragorn was able to melee a troll and Gandalf>>>

And Balrog and Gandalf MAD'd eachother

Are you seriously trying to imply trolls are stronger than Balrogs now And Gandalf hit from orcs and tossed pine cones.

Aragorn also beat the Witch King who easily broke gandalf's staff.

I'm saying a bunch of trolls are greater than one Balrog. You're clearly dense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And Gandalf hit from orcs and tossed pine cones.

And yet kicked ass at Helms Deep, Minas Tirith and he Black Gate to name a few



So the Witch King jobbed? Good for him

Oh and the Witch King got a power up for Minas Tirith /context

Oh and that just says how awesome Aragorn is



You clearly have no idea what you're talking about

Stick to Harry Potter m8

1:12 or so into the film we see the orcs use contraptions to hurl giant boulders from the trolls backs into the walls causing massive damage. Acting like the trolls just have to get close to the Balrog and ignoring this is a clear slap in the face of any serious Lotr knowledgeable fan such as myself.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
And yet kicked ass at Helms Deep, Minas Tirith and he Black Gate to name a few



So the Witch King jobbed? Good for him

Oh and the Witch King got a power up for Minas Tirith /context

Oh and that just says how awesome Aragorn is



You clearly have no idea what you're talking about

Stick to Harry Potter m8 He fought along with massive aid so of course he kicked some Orc ass.

No, he lost.

Nah, he humiliated Gandalf but then again so did Saruman.

I clearly watched the films and you want to ignore the showings and act like a fool.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1:12 or so into the film we see the orcs use contraptions to hurl giant boulders from the trolls backs into the walls causing massive damage. Acting like the trolls just have to get close to the Balrog and ignoring this is a clear slap in the face of any serious Lotr knowledgeable fan such as myself.

Something that couldn't even reliably hit, much less hurt the Balrog?

Yeah, okay pal

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Something that couldn't even reliably hit, much less hurt the Balrog?

Yeah, okay pal The army was well organized to attack on two fronts and took down huge parts of the walls but continue to pretend the Balrog is some elusive ninja with massive flames all over the battlefield. Gandalf took him out and got his ass kicked by Saruman.

Originally posted by Robtard
They'd have to get close enough to hammer, which isn't likely considering the Balrog is covered in flames and can ignite the floor in flames. Balrog probably wouldn't need to kill most of Sauron's army anyway, considering it made hundreds of goblins flee just by roaring.

Smaug died in a very specific manner via exploiting a weak-spot, the missing scale that was basically over his heart. No one is saying the Balrog is invulnerable, just that Sauron's army lacks the ability with what it has. Those were some goblins not Azog's army. We see the trolls and company toss massive boulders great distances to cause collateral damage that would absolutely rock the Balrog if not possibly take him out.

If you think the massive boulders that were launched can't hurt the Balrog you need to embrace reality.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The army was well organized to attack on two fronts and took down huge parts of the walls

>the point

>your head



Strawman



Good for Gandalf

Originally posted by StealthRanger
>the point

>your head



Strawman



Good for Gandalf You point makes no sense.

The Balrog is a slow massive target easy to hit. That's the point, fanboy.

Gandalf got put on his ass by Azog. Sorry, but the Balrog doesn't cut the mustard.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You point makes no sense.

The point being something as slow, heavy and bulky would have trouble aiming at something that can fly (well either that or has considerable leaping capabilities, or teleportation, or something)

Or aiming at a moving target full stop



See above



You try to use a scene where he was caught completely off guard what with Sauron's illusionary bullshit that concealed Azog. You're not even trying

And now he tries to claim Azog is>the Balrog . No wonder nobody here takes you seriously

You're more of a joke than SpaceBattles at downplaying LOTR

Originally posted by StealthRanger
The point being something as slow, heavy and bulky would have trouble aiming at something that can fly (well either that or has considerable leaping capabilities, or teleportation, or something)

Or aiming at a moving target full stop



See above



You try to use a scene where he was caught completely off guard what with Sauron's illusionary bullshit that concealed Azog. You're not even trying

And now he tries to claim Azog is>the Balrog . No wonder nobody here takes you seriously

You're more of a joke than SpaceBattles at downplaying LOTR An entire army focusing in a slower target can tag him. Watch the clip and see how damn slow he is. It's awful.


Azog put him down and Gandalf hid the other time. Film facts.


Azog commands an army and they decimate these losers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
An entire army focusing in a slower target can tag him. Watch the clip and see how damn slow he is. It's awful.

Kind of hard to get hundreds of thousands of people on a target that's a few times the height of a man, much less one who can fly, and can project fire. And has logia intangibility



Azog never fought Gandalf in a duel. Oh and You fail



Most of the army just being some slightly above human level schmucks with medieval weapons against an elite unit of Morgoth (Morgoth's army having trolls as generic schmucks)

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Kind of hard to get hundreds of thousands of people on a target that's a few times the height of a man, much less one who can fly, and can project fire. And has logia intangibility



Azog never fought Gandalf in a duel. Oh and You fail



Most of the army just being some slightly above human level schmucks with medieval weapons against an elite unit of Morgoth (Morgoth's army having trolls as generic schmucks) When did he fly in the film ? He actually fell, sport. He didn't want to. One or two of those boulders would wreck his body.

Gandalf hid up a tree and Azog put him on his ass.. Gandalf then fled.


They still crush this team. Granted they aren't the deatheaters but snow some respect nonetheless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did he fly in the film ?

Probably in his first on screen appearance when he appeared infront of Gandalf, after he was some distance behind the fellowship. Either that or Balrog has fairly hefty leaping capabilities

Or the fact he has wings



Like how falling thousands of feet di... oh wait

Or attacks from Gandalf who killed an attack troll with a single slash... oh hang on a mo



IOW just a pointless tangent that has no relevance, moving on



Gandalf was caught completely off guard by the necromancer's illusions that make Azog invisible to Gandalf. Oh and Gandalf stopped Azog with some telekinesis-esque power. Try again dipshit



Most of Sauron's army are irrelevant. Trolls have been taken out by Legolas and Aragorn was able to melee one. Balrog would have no fething trouble with some of (what are considered) Morgoth's goons

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Probably in his first on screen appearance when he appeared infront of Gandalf, after he was some distance behind the fellowship. Either that or Balrog has fairly hefty leaping capabilities

Or the fact he has wings



Like how falling thousands of feet di... oh wait

Or attacks from Gandalf who killed an attack troll with a single slash... oh hang on a mo



IOW just a pointless tangent that has no relevance, moving on



Gandalf was caught completely off guard by the necromancer's illusions that make Azog invisible to Gandalf. Oh and Gandalf stopped Azog with some telekinesis-esque power. Try again dipshit



Most of Sauron's army are irrelevant. Trolls have been taken out by Legolas and Aragorn was able to melee one. Balrog would have no fething trouble with some of (what are considered) Morgoth's goons So no proof he can fly. Concession accepted.


We don't see what they land on iirc. If I'm misremembering point it out. Falling doesn't have the impact that those boulders had. Far greater force than Gandalf was capable of.

It does have relevance that Gandalf had no confidence in taking down Aozg and his small crew but he was confident to stand against the Balrog.


If their army was irrelevant it wouldn't pose a threat to three combined armies.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So no proof he can fly. Concession accepted.

Well either that or he can leap or teleport, either one's just as good



https://media2.giphy.com/media/Ve9pOjJRxkW2c/200_s.gif



Quantify it or GTFO



Wrong



And that nobody else in the Fellowship could "swords have no more use here"



I mean to the Balrog you dumb shit

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Well either that or he can leap or teleport, either one's just as good



https://media2.giphy.com/media/Ve9pOjJRxkW2c/200_s.gif



Quantify it or GTFO



Wrong



And that nobody else in the Fellowship could "swords have no more use here"



I mean to the Balrog you dumb shit It is on you to prove your claim. Sign of a weak debater who makes assumptions minus proof.

Look at the collateral damage in the scene of the trolls. If you believe this can't hurt the Balrog prove it.

It happened again as Gandalf was against Azog in the castle and he fled again. Sauron caught up to him.

Gandalf used a sword.

If you believe the Balrog is greater than Azog's army you have no respect for Sauron or his competence as a dark force leader.