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In the scene in AoU in Stark tower, right after the team first encounters and defeats Ultron, let's pretend that the argument between the Avengers developed into a full blown fight. Tony and Banner teaming up due to both of them developing Ultron, Cap and Thor teaming up as they're the ones who were most strongly opposed to Ultron's creation. Let's further pretend that they're so pissed off that they're willing to kill the other team as they feel that the other team is a threat to world peace and security.


Scenario 1: The fight erupts right in the middle of their heated debate, meaning Tony is not in armor, Steve doesn't have his shield though it is within the room, Banner is still in human form, Mjolnir is on the table. The rest of the avengers quickly vacate the building as the fight erupts. Who wins?


Scenario 2: All the combatants are allowed 5 mins. to arm themselves while the other Avengers vacate the premises. Fight is still in Stark tower. Morals still off.

Scenario 3: The other Avengers manage to break up the fight. The combatants agree to meet again in 1 week in an honorable fight to the death. Tony and Banner stay in Stark tower and have all of Stark's resources to prepare for the fight. Thor flies Cap to Asgard and has all of Asgard's resources to prepare for the fight. Despite having prep time, the combatants are only allowed to bring their standard weaponry to the fight - no extra equipment or enhancements allowed. Stark and Banner obviously have way more IQ but Steve and Thor have more tactical and battle knowledge/experience. Who wins?

Additional details: In scenarios 2 and 3, Cap is allowed to carry a knife and side arm.

Team 1

1. Thor/Cap win. Even without the shield Cap is well above unarmored Stark and Thor is >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk

2. Thor wins. Tony would kill Cap with no morals but again Thor is too much for Hulk. Ironman ain't beating Thor

3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Originally posted by juggerman
1. Thor/Cap win. Even without the shield Cap is well above unarmored Stark and Thor is >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk

2. Thor wins. Tony would kill Cap with no morals but again Thor is too much for Hulk. Ironman ain't beating Thor

3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Not saying I disagree, but don't you think Cap and Thor are capable of making a battle plan of their own in 1 week? I know Thor isn't exactly a savvy fighter but he's less of a brute than Hulk is.

Originally posted by juggerman
3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Thor isn't simply a brute. He may not be doing fancy spins/flips/etc but he's not an unskilled fighter and doesn't simply lose his cool from a punch to the mouth.

Isn't Prep in Asgard way better than anything resources at Tony and Bruce's disposal.

I mean Thor could literally have Heimdall watching Tony and Bruce make their plans while Cap and Thor make a specific plan to counter theirs.

Also I'm not sure what 1 week of planning is really going to accomplish if the teams aren't allowed to actually bring anything from their prep time into combat.

At that point it is literally just trying to fine tune your team fighting ability while talking strengths and weaknesses which Cap and Thor should solidly be better at as they are both more tactical and more used to fighting in groups.

Originally posted by Newjak

Also I'm not sure what 1 week of planning is really going to accomplish if the teams aren't allowed to actually bring anything from their prep time into combat.

At that point it is literally just trying to fine tune your team fighting ability while talking strengths and weaknesses

Exactly. The prep time is to give them time to strategize, not come up with advanced weaponry. I admit I forgot about Heimdall so let's just take him out of the equation. It's supposed to be an honorable battle after all.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Not saying I disagree, but don't you think Cap and Thor are capable of making a battle plan of their own in 1 week? I know Thor isn't exactly a savvy fighter but he's less of a brute than Hulk is.

Thor is no Stark tho. And I honestly feel once Thor gets hit by either Tony or Hulk he will be pissed and just look to f*ck shit up. I see Stark keeping his cool much better. Plus Stark is probably the smartest guy there. Any plan he comes up with will shazz on Thor and Cap imo

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Thor isn't simply a brute. He may not be doing fancy spins/flips/etc but he's not an unskilled fighter and doesn't simply lose his cool from a punch to the mouth.

He seems to get pissed pretty easily and looks to smash. Not as much as Hulk but Thor does throw temper tantrums

Originally posted by Newjak
I mean Thor could literally have Heimdall watching Tony and Bruce make their plans while Cap and Thor make a specific plan to counter theirs.

Pretty sure prep doesn't include outside help...

So you feel that Thor will totally lose his sh!t at the start of the fight, despite there being zero examples of him doing so in any of the movies?

Perhaps I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. Stark can annoy/fluster/distract Thor with his speed and various weaponry. I didn't mean only one hit would do it, though it might. But Stark has been known to get under Thor's skin and quite easily at that. With Thor getting more and more frustrated with Tony and being attacked by Hulk this could net a win for them.

In no means am I saying it's a given. In fact in my initial post I said they CAN win and that they have a SHOT. Not once did I say that they would certainly win.

We've seen Thor enter into a slight blood lust while in battle (example is his first fight with the Frost giants). We've also seen him get pissed while fighting (example when he beat the crap out of Loki) but we've never seen him fight stupidly and without reason.

Even at his most arrogant during that first fight with the frost giants, he still had enough prescence of mind to know that his friends were in danger and he flew in to save them.

Thor is a veteran warrior of a thousand years. He's not going to fight stupidly after getting hit a few times. His temper may go up, we've seen it happen, but every time that happens he still fights properly.

Stark can definitely annoy Thor, but Stark isn't fast enough to escape hits from Thor. So every time Stark annoys Thor there's a good chance he's going to get hit. I think it would be foolish for Stark to try the annoy tactic, he should go in there full blast if he's to have a chance at Thor.

Originally posted by juggerman
Perhaps I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. Stark can annoy/fluster/distract Thor with his speed and various weaponry. I didn't mean only one hit would do it, though it might. But Stark has been known to get under Thor's skin and quite easily at that. With Thor getting more and more frustrated with Tony and being attacked by Hulk this could net a win for them.

In no means am I saying it's a given. In fact in my initial post I said they CAN win and that they have a SHOT. Not once did I say that they would certainly win.

Where exactly in the movies has Iron-man annoyed Thor to the point where it effects his fighting ability?

Originally posted by FrothByte
We've seen Thor enter into a slight blood lust while in battle (example is his first fight with the Frost giants). We've also seen him get pissed while fighting (example when he beat the crap out of Loki) but we've never seen him fight stupidly and without reason.

Even at his most arrogant during that first fight with the frost giants, he still had enough prescence of mind to know that his friends were in danger and he flew in to save them.

Thor is a veteran warrior of a thousand years. He's not going to fight stupidly after getting hit a few times. His temper may go up, we've seen it happen, but every time that happens he still fights properly.

Stark can definitely annoy Thor, but Stark isn't fast enough to escape hits from Thor. So every time Stark annoys Thor there's a good chance he's going to get hit. I think it would be foolish for Stark to try the annoy tactic, he should go in there full blast if he's to have a chance at Thor.

Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where exactly in the movies has Iron-man annoyed Thor to the point where it effects his fighting ability?

He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?



He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win \

The Thor/Ironman fight isn't a good example since, when Thor did get pissed, he casually backhanded Tony like it was nothing. Pissing Thor off would actually be a bad idea.

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?



He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

I'm not saying Thor can't get pissed. He does have a temper. I'm just saying getting him pissed won't make him fight stupidly or make stray from his game plan, since we have yet to see this happen.

As for my opinion in the matches, I think Thor/Cap take round 1 and 3 and Stark/Bruce take round 2.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
\

The Thor/Ironman fight isn't a good example since, when Thor did get pissed, he casually backhanded Tony like it was nothing. Pissing Thor off would actually be a bad idea.

That's why Tony would be keeping his distance here. Lasers and rockets and pulses and whatnot. No need to get too close.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not saying Thor can't get pissed. He does have a temper. I'm just saying getting him pissed won't make him fight stupidly or make stray from his game plan, since we have yet to see this happen.

As for my opinion in the matches, I think Thor/Cap take round 1 and 3 and Stark/Bruce take round 2.

It can make him make a mistake. It can also cause him to be open for Hulk's attacks.

Why your choices?

Originally posted by juggerman

It can make him make a mistake. It can also cause him to be open for Hulk's attacks.

Why your choices?

Well sure yeah, same way it can make any fighter make mistakes. Can make Tony or Steve make mistakes. Thor may have a temper but Tony is less experienced. I think the point I'm trying to make is that the "annoying" tactic isn't going to work on anyone other than Hulk.


As for my choices:

1 - Tony can call his armor to him and Bruce can change at will. But I think Cap and Thor are fast enough to kill Tony before he can get all his armor on, and they might be able to KO Bruce before he has fully turned. Even if they can't, once Tony is out of the way they should be able to handle the Hulk.

2 - If Tony and Hulk are fully prepped then it's a lot hard for Cap/Thor. The smaller confines of the Stark tower will make it hard for Cap to dodge around either IM or Hulk and it will play to Hulk's strengths. I feel like this will be the toughest fight for the teams, but there's a bit more advantage for IM/Hulk. IM/Hulk are physically stronger and tougher than the combination of Cap and Thor, and in close confines this will come into play.

3 - Cap and Thor will work better as a team. Let's face it, once Banner turns into Hulk then he's out of the game plan. Tony will be left to do whatever strategy he has on his own. Cap can actually annoy Hulk. We've seen Blonsky duck and dodge all over Hulk, Cap should be able to do the same. keep Hulk occupied till Thor takes out IM. Once that's done, Thor can unleash fully on the Hulk.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well sure yeah, same way it can make any fighter make mistakes. Can make Tony or Steve make mistakes. Thor may have a temper but Tony is less experienced. I think the point I'm trying to make is that the "annoying" tactic isn't going to work on anyone other than Hulk.


As for my choices:

1 - Tony can call his armor to him and Bruce can change at will. But I think Cap and Thor are fast enough to kill Tony before he can get all his armor on, and they might be able to KO Bruce before he has fully turned. Even if they can't, once Tony is out of the way they should be able to handle the Hulk.

2 - If Tony and Hulk are fully prepped then it's a lot hard for Cap/Thor. The smaller confines of the Stark tower will make it hard for Cap to dodge around either IM or Hulk and it will play to Hulk's strengths. I feel like this will be the toughest fight for the teams, but there's a bit more advantage for IM/Hulk. IM/Hulk are physically stronger and tougher than the combination of Cap and Thor, and in close confines this will come into play.

3 - Cap and Thor will work better as a team. Let's face it, once Banner turns into Hulk then he's out of the game plan. Tony will be left to do whatever strategy he has on his own. Cap can actually annoy Hulk. We've seen Blonsky duck and dodge all over Hulk, Cap should be able to do the same. keep Hulk occupied till Thor takes out IM. Once that's done, Thor can unleash fully on the Hulk.

In a 2 on 1 scenario I think it is more likely the 1 makes the mistake over the 2. They would need to take full advantage over any and every opening they get to win

1. I agree.

2. Good point.

3. Hulk was able to be a team player in both Avengers movies. I think him not being able to work with Stark is not correct.

Originally posted by juggerman
In a 2 on 1 scenario I think it is more likely the 1 makes the mistake over the 2. They would need to take full advantage over any and every opening they get to win

1. I agree.

2. Good point.

3. Hulk was able to be a team player in both Avengers movies. I think him not being able to work with Stark is not correct.

In a 2 on 1 scenario... who's your 2 and who's your 1?

In both the Avengers movies they mostly just leave Hulk alone to smash enemies. I don't recall any form of smart strategy that he was part of. They asked him to take out a bunker but that's about it.

Originally posted by juggerman
He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

When Thor got annoyed in that fight he started crushing Iron-man's armor with his bare hands and later casually back-handed Tony like IM wasn't worth his time. BTW. that was an Iron-man amped to 475% and he in no way held his on, the best you can say is that Tony survived.

To be fair, it wasn't like Tony used any of his more powerful weapons either. He stuck to repulsors and melee. It's pretty safe to assume that neither of them was going "all out".

Thor's high end attacks are a good deal above Iron-man's, so both going all out would just mean that Tony dies faster. as it stands, an amped but holding back Tony was losing and getting damaged from a holding back Thor who ended the fight without any sign of injury.

Yeah I think Thor showed in Avengers he could take IM out pretty easily if he wanted. I mean crushing Tony's armor with his bare hands without what looked like zero effort was all I needed to see to show what Thor could do to IM's suit of armor if he chose to let lose.

Also in terms of getting Thor off of his game. The only person in any movie Thor has appeared in that has done that was Loki. And only because he could play the Brother Save Me card because Thor was trying to save his brother.

Even when he gets angry and annoyed he can still fight like a trained warrior. As shown against IM in Avengers. As seen when he is in a blood rage against the Frost Giants. Heck the the Frost Giant's fight was probably the most competent we have seen Thor fight while using his powers with the only other exception being the Destroyer fight.

I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff.

If you're going to have IM going all out and fighting OOC, then you have to give Thor the same benefit and in that case, IM dies rather quickly.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff. That entirely depends on how much damage they would cause. In order for them to be distracting they need to to actually slow Thor down some.

If Tony tries to hit Thor with his missiles and it doesn't even phase him. Then a hammer throw or hit is still waiting for Tony at the end of that exchange.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In a 2 on 1 scenario... who's your 2 and who's your 1?

In both the Avengers movies they mostly just leave Hulk alone to smash enemies. I don't recall any form of smart strategy that he was part of. They asked him to take out a bunker but that's about it.

In my scenario I basically said if Tony can kill of Cap quickly then it would be him and Hulk against Thor. Then they would hope to unbalance him and take advantage

Well I didn't mean to imply Hulk was in anyway overly strategical but he was able to differ ally from enemy. He was also able to coordinate his efforts with Thor, protect bystanders and catch and save a falling Stark. He even was able to turn off his Skype chat with Widow without just breaking it to shit. The only times Hulk was out of control in either film was when he had some mind whammy going on. Any other time he was a good team player.

I just don't think assuming Hulk can't play out a specific role in a plan is accurate. Tho in my scenario all he is doing is attacking Thor. Nothing fancy

Originally posted by Silent Master
When Thor got annoyed in that fight he started crushing Iron-man's armor with his bare hands and later casually back-handed Tony like IM wasn't worth his time. BTW. that was an Iron-man amped to 475% and he in no way held his on, the best you can say is that Tony survived.

Thor was annoyed before that. I never said Thor was going all out but Tony did hold his own in that fight. Was he winning? Nope. Holding? Yessir

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff.

Yes you are correct. Tony's repulsers did affect Thor. Don't think he was hurt but they did take him off his feet iirc. That's all he would need to do to give Hulk the upperhand in a fight. And once Thor starts gaining ground against Hulk (cuz he will) Tony tries to distract or take Thor off his feet again. Not a fool proof plan but I don't see how else they could beat Thor.

Question for the OP:

I know you said the teams could not bring extra equipment with them to the battle but is Tony allowed to summon things once the fight actually starts? If so then they might actually have an ok chance.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes you are correct. Tony's repulsers did affect Thor. Don't think he was hurt but they did take him off his feet iirc. That's all he would need to do to give Hulk the upperhand in a fight. And once Thor starts gaining ground against Hulk (cuz he will) Tony tries to distract or take Thor off his feet again. Not a fool proof plan but I don't see how else they could beat Thor.

Question for the OP:

I know you said the teams could not bring extra equipment with them to the battle but is Tony allowed to summon things once the fight actually starts? If so then they might actually have an ok chance. Thor also took a point blank Repulser blast to the face in the same fight and didn't budge. It did seem to blind him somewhat but that was about it.

Also Thor has the strategic ability to take Hulk out of the fight by staying the air. He could also summon his massive tornado taking Hulk and Tony for a ride dealing with them one by one.

Hm. If Rogers gives Thor his shield, wouldn't Thor have the ultimate defense/offense combo? Mjolnir + Cap's shield = bad news for Tony/Hulk.

Originally posted by Newjak
Thor also took a point blank Repulser blast to the face in the same fight and didn't budge. It did seem to blind him somewhat but that was about it.

Also Thor has the strategic ability to take Hulk out of the fight by staying the air. He could also summon his massive tornado taking Hulk and Tony for a ride dealing with them one by one.

Did he? Huh maybe I need to rewatch the fight.

Yes and if it were Hulk vs Thor 1 on 1 he could easily do that. But Tony might be able to stop Thor from summoning the twister. He had to wind up a little bit to pull it off against the destroyer. Say he's winding up and Tony blasts him full power in the back? He would likely be sent flying and no tornado. It would also possibly give Hulk an opening.

I feel like you and others thinks I am trying to present this idea as a likely win for Banner/Stark. Honestly I wouldn't give them majority with it. I just see it as the only way they have a slight chance

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Hm. If Rogers gives Thor his shield, wouldn't Thor have the ultimate defense/offense combo? Mjolnir + Cap's shield = bad news for Tony/Hulk.

Nah man that's cheating

Originally posted by juggerman
Did he? Huh maybe I need to rewatch the fight.

Yes and if it were Hulk vs Thor 1 on 1 he could easily do that. But Tony might be able to stop Thor from summoning the twister. He had to wind up a little bit to pull it off against the destroyer. Say he's winding up and Tony blasts him full power in the back? He would likely be sent flying and no tornado. It would also possibly give Hulk an opening.

I feel like you and others thinks I am trying to present this idea as a likely win for Banner/Stark. Honestly I wouldn't give them majority with it. I just see it as the only way they have a slight chance I'm not saying you think it is an easy win for Tony/Bruce I am just trying to debate the topics being brought up .

Also Thor didn't need to wind up to get the tornado started. You can see in his fight with the Destroyer it starts to form when he goes airborne. Mostly the spinning the hammer just seemed to be him giving the the whirlwind the extra juice to overpower the destroyer. You also see him casually blocking the Destroyer's beams while the tornado is still going on. So I'm not sure how easy Tony will be able to distract Thor.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying you think it is an easy win for Tony/Bruce I am just trying to debate the topics being brought up .

Also Thor didn't need to wind up to get the tornado started. You can see in his fight with the Destroyer it starts to form when he goes airborne. Mostly the spinning the hammer just seemed to be him giving the the whirlwind the extra juice to overpower the destroyer. You also see him casually blocking the Destroyer's beams while the tornado is still going on. So I'm not sure how easy Tony will be able to distract Thor.

You are right about the tornado. It was whipping up before he started swinging the hammer but it didn't start lifting the Destroyer up until well after the spinning.

And while Thor did take a point blank repulser blast to the face it was much smaller than the other two that sent him flying. My guess is that it was only meant to give Ironman an opening not to do much damage

Also want to point out Thor did not casually bend Stark's armor. If you watch the scene Thor is grimacing while doing it. It took some effort:

Y1g-B8BJzwc

I'm pretty sure that grimace is because Thor is pissed off, not because he's having a hard time crumpling the armor.

Also to the question you asked earlier, the combatants can't bring/summon any external devices once the fight starts.

He crushed Tony's armor, which earlier models were shown taking tank shells with only superficial damage, by squeezing with his hand. That's pretty casual.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm pretty sure that grimace is because Thor is pissed off, not because he's having a hard time crumpling the armor.

Also to the question you asked earlier, the combatants can't bring/summon any external devices once the fight starts.

He wasn't grimacing before the squeezing.

Welp there goes trying to use Veronica

Originally posted by 80sBaby
He crushed Tony's armor, which earlier models were shown taking tank shells with only superficial damage, by squeezing with his hand. That's pretty casual.

He could probably rip the armor apart quickly but it isn't like crushing a can. He was working for it

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to have IM going all out and fighting OOC, then you have to give Thor the same benefit and in that case, IM dies rather quickly.

How is using ranged weapons and fighting cleverly "OOC" for Tony though? He's done this numerous times in the past against various different opponents.

As to damage, if a large boulder tossed at him by Kurse can at least temporarily hurt Thor a bit and cause him some hassle, getting hit by the kinds of missiles Tony was using to drop the Hydra forcefield in AoU should at least cause him some inconvenience. Not saying they would do any real damage, but chances are they would rock him temporarily. Hell, we literally see that Tony's repulsor blasts are strong enough to stagger Thor a bit, and those are his most basic weapons. Not to mention Thor would have to connect hits with Mjolnir, considering his lightning only amps Tony's suit, and every time he tries to toss it he leaves himself open.

Again, Thor would beat Tony, but Tony can drag it out a bit if he utilizes all his weapons and intelligence properly. If you disagree, by all means tell me how Thor is going to kill Tony so quickly, if Tony doesn't stick to just melee and repulsors?

The easiest way would be a charged hammer strike but that would be massive overkill, Thor just needs to hit Ironman with a full strength Mjolnir strike.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The easiest way would be a charged hammer strike but that would be massive overkill, Thor just needs to hit Ironman with a full strength Mjolnir strike.

And Tony is going to stand there and wait for Thor to hit him, instead of actively trying to avoid it or fight back? Tony has dodged a tank shell before, avoided ranged fire from Chitauri fighters, Hydra soldiers etc., so do you really think he is going to wait for Thor to one-shot him? So basically it requires the opposite of using his full arsenal and intelligence for Thor to actually kill him quickly.

Do I think Thor is fast and skilled enough to hit Iron-man, yes I do. But feel free to make an argument for Tony being too fast for Thor to hit even once.

As per their previous fight, it seemed like Tony was the one having a hard time landing hits on Thor.

In any case, do we think Thor will have a harder time hitting IM than Hulk hitting Cap?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do I think Thor is fast and skilled enough to hit Iron-man, yes I do. But feel free to make an argument for Tony being too fast for Thor to hit even once.

Ummm... where exactly did I say Thor will never hit Tony once? In fact, I said Thor would beat Tony, but Tony could drag it out. Don't try to flip the argument to avoid backing your own claim. You claimed he would charge-strike him or do one of his full powered hits. You made the claim. Not me. Thor's heaviest strikes normally require a brief moment before delivering them, and the vast majority of his best striking feats are against immobile objects/opponents (Jotunheim, Cap's shield, vibranium core etc.), not someone fast and agile enough to dodge tank rockets and outfly fighter planes. We both know hitting a stationary object is not even remotely the same as trying to tag an actively resisting opponent, capable of supersonic flight.

So again, you made the claim he will just one-shot him like that, even if Tony actively uses all his weapons and intelligence to fight back. So burden of proof is on you, not me.

Stark and Hulk win.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Ummm... where exactly did I say Thor will never hit Tony once? In fact, I said Thor would beat Tony, but Tony could drag it out. Don't try to flip the argument to avoid backing your own claim. You claimed he would charge-strike him or do one of his full powered hits. You made the claim. Not me. Thor's heaviest strikes normally require a brief moment before delivering them, and the vast majority of his best striking feats are against immobile objects/opponents (Jotunheim, Cap's shield, vibranium core etc.), not someone fast and agile enough to dodge tank rockets and outfly fighter planes. We both know hitting a stationary object is not even remotely the same as trying to tag an actively resisting opponent, capable of supersonic flight.

So again, you made the claim he will just one-shot him like that, even if Tony actively uses all his weapons and intelligence to fight back. So burden of proof is on you, not me.

Their fight in Avengers already showed that Thor has the ability to hit Iron-man and the strength needed to take him out if he wanted.

Your "evidence" is him tagging Tony with lesser attacks, in a fight Tony only used a fraction of his arsenal? In response to me asking you how he is going to quickly (considering you made the claim that he is killing Tony quickly) use a strike, that usually has a small delay, against Iron Man, who is also using his lasers, mini-rockets, base/tankbusters etc. So you don't actually have proof that Thor could easily land one of his charged/most powerful strikes on an Iron Man using ALL his weapons and intelligence in a fight? Glad we got that settled.

The charged hammer strike was only one way, I also pointed out that given Thor's strength an all out regular Mjolnir hit would also do the job.

Thor can solo all 3 scenarios tbh.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The charged hammer strike was only one way, I also pointed out that given Thor's strength an all out regular Mjolnir hit would also do the job.

Again, the argument is not whether Thor could beat him or not. The argument is whether he could do so quickly, more quickly in fact than their fight in Avengers lasted (that was your claim). Name one of Thor's toughest strikes that he used quickly, and against a flying, agile opponent, that could drop Tony in one go. You said he could, so provide the feat.

My claim is that Thor has the strength needed to end the fight with one hit, which he does.

Sorry, nope. You said this:

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor's high end attacks are a good deal above Iron-man's, so both going all out would just mean that Tony dies faster . as it stands, an amped but holding back Tony was losing and getting damaged from a holding back Thor who ended the fight without any sign of injury.

And that was in response to my comment that Tony did not use his full arsenal during their previous fight. So you plainly said that both of them going all out would result in Tony losing more quickly than that fight. Nice try though.

Yes, he would die faster as one hit is faster than 30 hits. and considering that the fights are taking place in Stark tower I don't see Tony dodging for very long if at all.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes, he would die faster as one hit is faster than 30 hits. and considering that the fights are taking place in Stark tower I don't see Tony dodging for very long if at all.

Then by all means, provide a feat of Thor one-shotting an opponent like Tony, as I asked. Every time you respond it is nothing more than "I don't see", "I feel" etc.

Their fight shows that Thor has the strength needed to one shot him, as when he finally got annoyed with IM, Thor was crushing the suit with his bare hands and even dented it with a headbutt. now imagine Thor hitting IM with Mjonlir while using that level of strength.

So instead of providing an actual screen feat of Thor one-shotting someone with Tony's capabilities and intelligence, your only piece of evidence is him damaging an older, less advanced, and, based on the fact that his AoU suit tanked being right under the vibranium core explosion when it went off, less durable armour. And again, Tony was not using his own lasers, tank busters or mini rockets to hamper Thor during their fight either. If that is what you call definitive proof to back your claim that Thor could quickly one-shot a Tony going all out, we are done here.

That's the thing people quickly forget. Tony's Avengers 1 suit got banged up getting stuck in the Helicarrier turbine, to the point of him rather risking removing it to change suits during his confrontation with Loki, as opposed to keeping it on for safety. His AoU suit tanked a city blowing up on top of it. So based on feats, his AoU armour is a lot tougher than his Avengers armour.

So how much more durable are you claiming his new armor is. 5%, 50%, 100%, 1000%, 10000%?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Thor can solo all 3 scenarios tbh. Be serious.

You're such a jester.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So how much more durable are you claiming his new armor is. 5%, 50%, 100%, 1000%, 10000%?

I have no idea exactly how much more durable it is. But one got damaged being knocked around by a large turbine while the other one took a city level explosion. It's safe to say that the one is significantly more durable than the other. And this is Tony from AoU. So again, how about instead of trying to deflect things back on me, you actually back up your own claims with feats. So how about you provide a feat of Thor one-shotting someone who can tank a city sized explosion (Tony in his AoU armour, the one most relevant to this thread), and do so in a shorter span of time than their fight in Avengers lasted, or concede the point. If you do not actually provide said feat, and continue with your deflections, I will take it as a concession and that you're trolling. So your choice.

Oh, and it is not allowed to be a charged strike either, considering you said a regular full strength one would be enough.

So you're basically arguing that Thor can't damage the armor, if that is going to be your stance then what is the point of continuing?

Just want to say that tanking an explosion would be somewhat different from tanking the turbine blades. An explosion is a single blast whereas the turbine blades were continuously hitting Tony.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to say that tanking an explosion would be somewhat different from tanking the turbine blades. An explosion is a single blast whereas the turbine blades were continuously hitting Tony.

Exactly, given their size they had to weigh at least several tons and were moving very fast, so considering how long he was trapped in the turbine. It's safe to say he was hit a lot. And those were direct hits vs just getting hit with the shockwave of an explosion.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're basically arguing that Thor can't damage the armor, if that is going to be your stance then what is the point of continuing?

More deflection tactics eh? Exactly where did I say that Thor can not damage the armour? Please quote me saying so. In fact, I have said on MULTIPLE occasions that Thor would eventually beat Tony. My stance is that, based on the level of durability Tony's armour displayed in AoU, the armour he is wearing for this match, Thor couldn't quickly one-shot him, especially if Tony is actively fighting back and using all his capabilities.

All you have done is dance around the topic, try to deflect, avoid backing your claims, and try to accuse me of taking a stance I did not. So concession accepted.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to say that tanking an explosion would be somewhat different from tanking the turbine blades. An explosion is a single blast whereas the turbine blades were continuously hitting Tony.

The city explosion was still a lot better IMO. He wasn't even in the turbines for a full 10 seconds, and he was actually under them, so they were clipping him and knocking him around as opposed to hitting him full on. In comparison, he cut a hole in that metal foundation under the city and had his chest piece pressed right up to it, directly exposed to the core on the inside, as it detonated. And then he was tossed like a ragdoll and still hit with large pieces of rock and debris. Yet he regained control within seconds and zipped off. After he came out of the turbine his armour was screaming warning signals.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
More deflection tactics eh? Exactly where did I say that Thor can not damage the armour? Please quote me saying so. In fact, I have said on MULTIPLE occasions that Thor would eventually beat Tony. My stance is that, based on the level of durability Tony's armour displayed in AoU, the armour he is wearing for this match, Thor couldn't quickly one-shot him, especially if Tony is actively fighting back and using all his capabilities.

All you have done is dance around the topic, try to deflect, avoid backing your claims, and try to accuse me of taking a stance I did not. So concession accepted.

Trolls will be trolls. Best to just let it go

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
More deflection tactics eh? Exactly where did I say that Thor can not damage the armour? Please quote me saying so. In fact, I have said on MULTIPLE occasions that Thor would eventually beat Tony. My stance is that, based on the level of durability Tony's armour displayed in AoU, the armour he is wearing for this match, Thor couldn't quickly one-shot him, especially if Tony is actively fighting back and using all his capabilities.

All you have done is dance around the topic, try to deflect, avoid backing your claims, and try to accuse me of taking a stance I did not. So concession accepted. I would like to point out that Tony was using the Vibranium Core to create a heat shield so the attack would reflect back in on itself. So we are not sure exactly how much of the blast Tony actually took from Thor's attack.

Basically I wouldn't use that feat as a pure indicator of Tony's upgraded armor's durability.

Originally posted by Newjak
I would like to point out that Tony was using the Vibranium Core to create a heat shield so the attack would reflect back in on itself. So we are not sure exactly how much of the blast Tony actually took from Thor's attack.

Basically I wouldn't use that feat as a pure indicator of Tony's upgraded armor's durability.

Tony didn't get hit by Thor's attack. Thor targeted the core itself. The whole point of Tony's actions was to amplify the effect of Thor's strike against the core itself. As Friday mentioned, alone it would crack the core, but would not be enough damage to stop the impact. So Tony did what he did to make the whole thing go critical, despite Friday saying it could "vaporise the whole city and everything on it". And we literally see the bottom of the whole thing blow out, just like the rest of the city, when the core blows. He didn't tank Thor's attack. He and Thor both took the after effects of their combined attack on the vibranium core i.e. it going critical and blasting that whole thing to bits with both of them on either sides of ground zero.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Tony didn't get hit by Thor's attack. Thor targeted the core itself. The whole point of Tony's actions was to amplify the effect of Thor's strike against the core itself. As Friday mentioned, alone it would crack the core, but would not be enough damage to stop the impact. So Tony did what he did to make the whole thing go critical, despite Friday saying it could "vaporise the whole city and everything on it". And we literally see the bottom of the whole thing blow out, just like the rest of the city, when the core blows. He didn't tank Thor's attack. He and Thor both took the after effects of their combined attack on the vibranium core i.e. it going critical and blasting that whole thing to bits with both of them on either sides of ground zero. He didn't amplify Thor's attack. He is literally creating a heat shield using the vibranium core so the attack would reflect back on itself. This is how it was described.

Tony did not combine his attack with Thor's. He did not survive Thor's attack. He did not survive a city explosion. Or to state better. We do not know how much of the attack of the city destruction Tony took. He took a blast but how much of it had been reflected is unknown.

You can not logically say Tony took the entirety of that attack when his whole plan was to use the vibranium core to create a shield that bounces the attack back. Thus you can not know for certain what level of power Tony endured. Thus trying to use that feat to say Tony has city busting durability is incorrect. It didn't show he could take it.

Originally posted by Newjak
He didn't amplify Thor's attack. He is literally creating a heat shield using the vibranium core so the attack would reflect back on itself. This is how it was described.

Tony did not combine his attack with Thor's. He did not survive Thor's attack. He did not survive a city explosion. Or to state better. We do not know how much of the attack of the city destruction Tony took. He took a blast but how much of it had been reflected is unknown.

You can not logically say Tony took the entirety of that attack when his whole plan was to use the vibranium core to create a shield that bounces the attack back. Thus you can not know for certain what level of power Tony endured. Thus trying to use that feat to say Tony has city busting durability is incorrect. It didn't show he could take it.

Yes, he capped off the one end so that the atomic energy inside would double back on itself, resulting in a blast that would, according to Friday, potentially "vaporise the city and everything on it". Because Thor's hit alone would not have been enough to do significant damage to the core. And he knew both he and Thor would actually be at very real risk, as he comments to Thor that if it actually works, neither of them might actually make it out alive. Then we literally see him right under the city as the whole thing blows up. We see enough energy released to blow that entire thing to bits, including blowing the bottom out, where Tony is. You say Tony didn't survive an explosion that destroyed a city, yet we see him right there when it happens. Of course he didn't take all the energy of the blast himself. The blast went in all directions once the core blew out. But the damage it caused to that entire chunk of rock was blatantly clear.

And they literally did combine efforts. We see Tony unleashing with his chest reactor right before he tells Thor to hit the core at the top. We can clearly see a massive amount of energy, heat and rubble released by the blast, in all directions, despite the heat cap. We also see him get hit by the blast wave and tossed like a ragdoll. Based on what I saw, he clearly took a huge blast quite directly, and was then still caught in the other rubble as he was tumbling through the air a bit. Whether the heat cap did anything or not, it is still the biggest direct hit we have seem him take in any film and just basically have him shrug it off. We just have to look at what happens to the whole rock, as well as the area Tony had been positioned, to see the damage caused.

But of course, this all hedges on whether someone believes Thor's attack was responsible for all the damage (I know some used this feat to try and call Thor a city buster), or whether they believe it was the unstable vibranium core blowing up that vaporised the rock. I believe it to be the latter, triggered by the former's attack being bounced back on itself. And if we disagree there, this conversation is probably not going to go anywhere.

But anyway...

There is enough evidence there to suggest to me that his new armour is tougher than the armour he wore in Avengers. Even without the explosion, based on the fact that we have seen a steady progression of armours throughout his career, and we know he has made several other advances, it stands to reason it would have been enhanced in terms of durability too. And then we also have the fight between Tony and Ultron, where Ultron could barely manage to scratch the paint on Tony's armour. Other than the Hulk, we don't see anything really do much notable damage to any of his AoU armours.

So the point was that there is enough evidence, I feel, in AoU to suggest that Tony's suit has been enhanced from Avengers, in terms of durability. So trying to use just their semi-serious fight from Avengers as evidence of Thor one-shotting Tony under different conditions, in a newer armour, doesn't really work. As I have pointed out, Tony would still lose because his suit can't take Thor's blows forever, and I don't see anything in Tony's standard gear bugging Thor for long. But if he utilises his flight speed, agility, all his intelligence, and all his weaponry, he could frustrate Thor and drag the fight out a bit, before Thor finally puts him down.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, he capped off the one end so that the atomic energy inside would double back on itself, resulting in a blast that would, according to Friday, potentially "vaporise the city and everything on it". Because Thor's hit alone would not have been enough to do significant damage to the core. And he knew both he and Thor would actually be at very real risk, as he comments to Thor that if it actually works, neither of them might actually make it out alive. Then we literally see him right under the city as the whole thing blows up. We see enough energy released to blow that entire thing to bits, including blowing the bottom out, where Tony is. You say Tony didn't survive an explosion that destroyed a city, yet we see him right there when it happens. Of course he didn't take all the energy of the blast himself. The blast went in all directions once the core blew out. But the damage it caused to that entire chunk of rock was blatantly clear.

And they literally did combine efforts. We see Tony unleashing with his chest reactor right before he tells Thor to hit the core at the top. We can clearly see a massive amount of energy, heat and rubble released by the blast, in all directions, despite the heat cap. We also see him get hit by the blast wave and tossed like a ragdoll. Based on what I saw, he clearly took a huge blast quite directly, and was then still caught in the other rubble as he was tumbling through the air a bit. Whether the heat cap did anything or not, it is still the biggest direct hit we have seem him take in any film and just basically have him shrug it off. We just have to look at what happens to the whole rock, as well as the area Tony had been positioned, to see the damage caused.

But of course, this all hedges on whether someone believes Thor's attack was responsible for all the damage (I know some used this feat to try and call Thor a city buster), or whether they believe it was the unstable vibranium core blowing up that vaporised the rock. I believe it to be the latter, triggered by the former's attack being bounced back on itself. And if we disagree there, this conversation is probably not going to go anywhere.

But anyway...

There is enough evidence there to suggest to me that his new armour is tougher than the armour he wore in Avengers. Even without the explosion, based on the fact that we have seen a steady progression of armours throughout his career, and we know he has made several other advances, it stands to reason it would have been enhanced in terms of durability too. And then we also have the fight between Tony and Ultron, where Ultron could barely manage to scratch the paint on Tony's armour. Other than the Hulk, we don't see anything really do much notable damage to any of his AoU armours.

So the point was that there is enough evidence, I feel, in AoU to suggest that Tony's suit has been enhanced from Avengers, in terms of durability. So trying to use just their semi-serious fight from Avengers as evidence of Thor one-shotting Tony under different conditions, in a newer armour, doesn't really work. As I have pointed out, Tony would still lose because his suit can't take Thor's blows forever, and I don't see anything in Tony's standard gear bugging Thor for long. But if he utilises his flight speed, agility, all his intelligence, and all his weaponry, he could frustrate Thor and drag the fight out a bit, before Thor finally puts him down. It is a fair statement to say that Tony's armor is probably more durable than Avengers 1 maybe. That is not the same statement as his armor can now tank city destroying blasts though which is what you stated. He took a good sized blast but once again we don't know exactly the force of the impact.

You're also not fully accurate in your statement. All Tony did and as stated by Friday was creating a heat shield for Thor's attack to reflect on. Otherwise Thor's attack as stated by Friday would have only cracked through the island but the pieces would have still been too big.

There is no mention of him ever saying he is combining his attack with Thor's to generate more power. once again all that is ever mentioned is that Tony is creating a heat for Thor's attack to bounce back in on itself so the island gets vaporized instead of it remaining in multiple deadly large pieces.

Also another mistake on your part is the Vibranium core was not vaporized with the blast as you clearly see it fall into water afterwards.

Once again Tony created a heat shield using the vibranium core for Thor's attack unto itself.

So how much of the blast force did Tony take? Considering he had a vibranium core and heat shield between him and it? The answer is unknown. Obviously he took some of the blast and it was powerful. The stretch and illogical conclusion you are jumping to is that his armor can now take city destroying blasts. You can not prove it based on this feat.

If all Tony said he was doing was combing his power with Thor's to create the explosion necessary I would say you had a better case. As it stands that is not what he did.

I never said it did vaporise the core. I said Friday said it could potentially vaporise the whole thing, which she did say.

See, the way it sounded to me in that scene was like they were referring to the core itself. And I didn't actually say it created more power. I mean amped in the sense that the actual effect of the attack would be magnified, which bouncing it back on itself would do. So the attack's effect was magnified via Tony's actions, or amped up. And we see Tony do just that with his arc reactor. So they worked in tandem to achieve the feat.

But as I said, if you believe the explosion was all Thor then we are just going to go in circles here, because I believe it was a case of Thor's hit and Tony bouncing it back onto itself causing the core to go unstable and detonate. And if watching the movie 3 times hasn't changed my mind, no one here will.

Maybe my wording was maybe a bit off in the beginning, but I actually meant he tanked being on ground zero of an explosion great enough to destroy a city (I specifically stated he tanked being by an explosion that destroyed an actual city, multiple times, not that he took a city buster directly). It is clearly obvious that he didn't take all the energy. The energy wasn't focused enough. But the energy released was massive.

Point is that up until this point, his armour has not withstood any blast close to what we see in the end there (nor handled it anywhere near as well). Hell, the blast hit Thor hard enough that he landed in the ocean before he could even start to recover. So clearly it packed a wallop.

Everything I saw in AoU told me that Tony's armour is significantly improved over his his Avengers 1 armour. From the explosion, to his fight with Ultron etc. Which is why I don't feel their semi-serious fight in Avengers is a good indication as proof for the claim Silent Master originally made.

But yeah, we disagree on a fundamental element of the explosion (how much of it did Thor cause), so this is not going to go anywhere. Might as well agree to disagree, or we could be stuck in circular arguments for the next 10 pages.

Thor wins it for his team in every scenario.

I've only come up with one potential scenario where another Avenger has a realistic chance of taking him out if he is at full power. And that involves not directly fighting him at all really. Best option is to pull like 50 Jericho missiles out of Stark's storage, find a remote location, try and lure him there and tie him up in a fight long enough to launch all 50 of those at the spot at once (maybe attack him with the entire Iron Legion and all other Tony's suits remotely. It won't beat him, but it will keep him busy for a bit).

I have a feeling 50 of these at once will ruin even Thor's day, assuming they actually end up finding their mark:

YBC1Qob27sM

But anyway, those kinds of stips aren't in this OP, so kind of a moot point.

As others have stated, Thor tips all these matches in his team's favour.