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Who's taking this???

With weapons, Cable. In pure h2h, Cap.

Originally posted by carver9
Who's taking this???

Cap all day long. Should he have his vib shield.

Originally posted by FrothByte
With weapons, Cable. In pure h2h, Cap.
Exactly

Originally posted by FrothByte
With weapons, Cable. In pure h2h, Cap.


agreed

Ohhh boys! Are we being serious now!?

What makes you believe that Cable would do better than Iron Man!?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ohhh boys! Are we being serious now!?

What makes you believe that Cable would do better than Iron Man!?

Let's be honest here, if IM used his full arsenal on Cap and went for the kill, Cap would be dead.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's be honest here, if IM used his full arsenal on Cap and went for the kill, Cap would be dead.

Agree. And yet you can't posibly put Cable on IM's level.

At best Cable would reach WS' level. And we all know Bucky isn't defeating Cap.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Agree. And yet you can't posibly put Cable on IM's level.

At best Cable would reach WS' level. And we all know Bucky isn't defeating Cap.

In h2h yes, but his weaponry and gadgets are on a completely different level.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Agree. And yet you can't posibly put Cable on IM's level.

At best Cable would reach WS' level. And we all know Bucky isn't defeating Cap. WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.

Originally posted by FrothByte
With weapons, Cable. In pure h2h, Cap.

Pretty much this.

Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.
Shots fired!

Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.

According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.

I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.

Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.

Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.

I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.

Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
According to Cap fanboys, Steve always holds back against Bucky, even in situations where it would be completely nonsensical, in terms of narrative, for him to do so.

I have even seen some argue that Steve was holding back to the point where he let Bucky overpower and throw him down the elevator shaft in CA:CW, even though his entire aim was to prevent berserk Bucky from hurting more people, something he can't do from the bottom of said shaft. I mean it is one thing to say Steve wasn't trying to kill him (because he obviously wasn't, but then Bucky's own agenda was mostly getting out of the building), but to argue that he wasn't putting all his effort into stopping/incapacitating him is retarded.

Yet I have seen Cap fanboys make that exact argument before, because they can't stand the idea of Steve coming out second best in a head-to-head with Bucky.

Well when steve does better against Ironman, thanos, spidetman and in general just having better feats than bucky then it's hard to come to any other conclusion.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Well when steve does better against Ironman, thanos, spidetman and in general just having better feats than bucky then it's hard to come to any other conclusion.

- Bucky never had any solo H2H against Thanos. Also, unless you think Steve can casually pin Spiderman down (which Thanos does on Titan), casually necksnap Loki (which he does early in the film), casually tear Tony's nano-suit helmet off (during their duel on Titan), or casually tear the Mind Stone out of Vision's vibranium head (which he does in Wakanda), and that Corvus Glaive (who had Steve pinned to the ground a bit earlier) is stronger than Thanos, the Titan clearly wasn't using all his strength against him. Especially, considering two years earlier, Steve couldn't overpower Buck's metal arm. He'd have to have gone from below Bucky's metal arm to basically near-Hulk level in the space of two years, somehow.
- Bucky barely fought against Spiderman, and only got pinned when he shielded Falcon from a hit.
- Tony was very clearly not going as hard against Steve as he was against Bucky. For example, Tony was shooting cuffs at Steve, while shooting missiles at Bucky.


But wait, so are you actually saying Steve was holding back during the Civil War scene I mentioned? As you say it's "hard to come to any other conclusion". So, you're arguing Steve is an idiot who let Bucky throw him down an elevator shaft despite that being completely counterproductive to his agenda at the time?

I consider Bucky throwing Steve down that elevator shaft PIS though. I mean yeah, Bucky's arm had already shown itself to be strong enough to overpower Steve's both arms back in TWS, but I have a hard time accepting that it can overpower Steve to the extent that he goes flying through elevator doors hard enough to knock him out. Especially since it flies completely against other showings. Heck Steve managed to catch a punch from the arm with both hands just before that.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I consider Bucky throwing Steve down that elevator shaft PIS though. I mean yeah, Bucky's arm had already shown itself to be strong enough to overpower Steve's both arms back in TWS, but I have a hard time accepting that it can overpower Steve to the extent that he goes flying through elevator doors hard enough to knock him out. Especially since it flies completely against other showings. Heck Steve managed to catch a punch from the arm with both hands just before that.

Catching a punch isn't the same thing as maintaining extended effort against it though. Also, while fighting the German Spec Ops guys, Bucky was able to force Steve down with the robo arm pretty easily as well, IIRC.

Regardless, the point is that Steve was shown to be below the robo arm, consistently, across both films, taking place years apart. Steve suddenly matching Thanos two years later (who we see overpower the Hulk, and who accomplished the vast majority of the feats I listed, if not all, with one arm) is hugely inconsistent, and itself is either PIS, or Thanos wasn't trying his hardest. And this is not some slight against Steve. Thanos is just insanely strong. I mean the guy literally pulled the Mind Stone out of Vision's forehead using only three fingers.

Yeah Cap shouldn't be doing anything to Thanos, but then again, Russoforce. Atleast they showed that Cap's hits even with the new shields were having zero effect

Originally posted by FrothByte
With weapons, Cable. In pure h2h, Cap.

With weapons, Cable turns it up to 11 and blasts Cap.

H2H is a win column tally for Cap definitely.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In h2h yes, but his weaponry and gadgets are on a completely different level.

WS was using weapons most of the times in WS and didn't defeated Cap. Why should Cable?

Originally posted by Mindset
WS could beat Cap though, even if I would give Cap the edge more times than not.

The Winter Soldier movie disagrees with you.

Josh is such a fanboy.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
WS was using weapons most of the times in WS and didn't defeated Cap. Why should Cable?

Did you not notice how Cable's weaponry is obviously a lot more advanced than WS's?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The Winter Soldier movie disagrees with you. No It doesn't.Originally posted by FrothByte
Did you not notice how Cable's weaponry is obviously a lot more advanced than WS's? He doesn't realize much.

Cable.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Did you not notice how Cable's weaponry is obviously a lot more advanced than WS's?

Bring me evidence that futuristic human weapons have finally managed to defeat Vibranium.

Originally posted by Mindset
No It doesn't. He doesn't realize much.

If you say so!!!!!....

Guess you didn't realize Cap has a Vibranium Shileld at his disposal.
What's next? Cable's weapons breaching BP's suit?

Originally posted by Estacado
Cable.

This isnt the Off-Topic Circle Jerk Quanchi. In other words, keep your shit in your ass!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Bring me evidence that futuristic human weapons have finally managed to defeat Vibranium.

Bring me evidence that Cap is made of vibranium.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bring me evidence that Cap is made of vibranium.

No but he has a Vibranium Shield which he is a master of

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No but he has a Vibranium Shield which he is a master of

Yes but it's not always in his hand in a fight. Numerous times he's dropped it or lost it in the middle of a fight. So i don't need to prove that Cable's weapons can beat vibranium since:

1. Cap isn't made of vibranium
2. His shield doesn't protect his entire body ALL the time

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes but it's not always in his hand in a fight. Numerous times he's dropped it or lost it in the middle of a fight. So i don't need to prove that Cable's weapons can beat vibranium since:

1. Cap isn't made of vibranium
2. His shield doesn't protect his entire body ALL the time

Cap has efficiently defended himself from beings like Loki, Thor, IM, Ultron, WS and many others with that Shield.

I dont see Cable breaching Cap's superior skills bro. Future Weapons are nice, but that Shield is just nicer.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Cap has efficiently defended himself from beings like Loki, Thor, IM, Ultron, WS and many others with that Shield.

I dont see Cable breaching Cap's superior skills bro. Future Weapons are nice, but that Shield is just nicer.

vs. Thor - Thor only tried to hit him once. Not exactly a great feat to pull for Cap.

vs. Loki - he lost the shield against Loki and was losing the fight if IM didn't interfere.

vs. IM - had help and IM wasn't using his full arsenal against Cap

vs. WS - again, lost the shield multiple times and got shot and cut. This proves that Cap is not unhittable even with his shield. Considering that Cable's guns are superior to WS's, had that been Cable's gun that Cap was shot with he'd be a gonner.

Originally posted by FrothByte
vs. Thor - Thor only tried to hit him once. Not exactly a great feat to pull for Cap.

vs. Loki - he lost the shield against Loki and was losing the fight if IM didn't interfere.

vs. IM - had help and IM wasn't using his full arsenal against Cap

vs. WS - again, lost the shield multiple times and got shot and cut. This proves that Cap is not unhittable even with his shield. Considering that Cable's guns are superior to WS's, had that been Cable's gun that Cap was shot with he'd be a gonner.

He could withstand a full impact from Thor, he can hell as sure withstand anything Cable can pull out.

Loki and Scepter 》Cable and his gear.

IM 》 Cable

Winter Soldier is a better fighter than Cable. And, remember Cap never fought him seriously.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He could withstand a full impact from Thor, he can hell as sure withstand anything Cable can pull out.

Loki and Scepter 》Cable and his gear.

IM 》 Cable

Winter Soldier is a better fighter than Cable. And, remember Cap never fought him seriously.

Pretty sure Cap was fighting WS seriously on the bridge. No proof to indicate he wasn't.

And I never said Cable can blast through the shield, I said Cap can't always protect himself with it, as has been proven multiple times already.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Pretty sure Cap was fighting WS seriously on the bridge. No proof to indicate he wasn't.

And I never said Cable can blast through the shield, I said Cap can't always protect himself with it, as has been proven multiple times already.

If thats the case then IM was fighting Cap seriously by the end of CW.

Cap wouldnt stay standing getting shot. He would move forward, close the distance, and change the battle into a close quarters which would result in Cap winning. Once Cap is close, Cable's gun would be useless.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If thats the case then IM was fighting Cap seriously by the end of CW.

Cap wouldnt stay standing getting shot. He would move forward, close the distance, and change the battle into a close quarters which would result in Cap winning. Once Cap is close, Cable's gun would be useless.

Only a complete idiot would think IM was going all out against Cap in CW.

Again, Cap has gotten hit by firearms and weapons before. He's not invincible.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
- Bucky never had any solo H2H against Thanos. Also, unless you think Steve can casually pin Spiderman down (which Thanos does on Titan), casually necksnap Loki (which he does early in the film), casually tear Tony's nano-suit helmet off (during their duel on Titan), or casually tear the Mind Stone out of Vision's vibranium head (which he does in Wakanda), and that Corvus Glaive (who had Steve pinned to the ground a bit earlier) is stronger than Thanos, the Titan clearly wasn't using all his strength against him. Especially, considering two years earlier, Steve couldn't overpower Buck's metal arm. He'd have to have gone from below Bucky's metal arm to basically near-Hulk level in the space of two years, somehow.
- Bucky barely fought against Spiderman, and only got pinned when he shielded Falcon from a hit.
- Tony was very clearly not going as hard against Steve as he was against Bucky. For example, Tony was shooting cuffs at Steve, while shooting missiles at Bucky.


But wait, so are you actually saying Steve was holding back during the Civil War scene I mentioned? As you say it's "hard to come to any other conclusion". So, you're arguing Steve is an idiot who let Bucky throw him down an elevator shaft despite that being completely counterproductive to his agenda at the time?

I'm just saying, Pete caught bucky's metal arm punch no problem and cap was able to power through and beat Pete. And was going toe to toe with with glaive for a bit despite him being strong enough to break through vision's vibranium body. Steve has been consistently getting stronger with each movie he appears in.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I'm just saying, Pete caught bucky's metal arm punch no problem and cap was able to power through and beat Pete. And was going toe to toe with with glaive for a bit despite him being strong enough to break through vision's vibranium body. Steve has been consistently getting stronger with each movie he appears in.

Corvus used an alien weapon to pierce Vision. He didn't do it via brute strength alone. And, again, Corvus had Steve pinned to the ground when they fought 1-on-1, with Steve seemingly unable to break his grip. Cap also didn't use brute strength alone against Peter. He used leverage and their difference in body mass to get Pete off balance. Plus, that showing is inconsistent with what we have been shown across multiple films, considering we've seen Bucky's robo arm overpower Steve on several occasions by now (including the same film), and seen Spiderman perform things like the ferry feat in Homecoming.

But if you want to take one showing with Spiderman over multiple showings where Steve gets overpowered by the robo arm, that's your choice.

Plus Vision was beating the shit out of Corvus when he threatened Wanda, and lost only when Corvus redirected Vision's stone beam on Vision himself. And this was after he had stabbed Vision with the spear twice

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


But if you want to take one showing with Spiderman over multiple showings where Steve gets overpowered by the robo arm, that's your choice.


I dunno, if Spidey keeps getting easily overpowered by other heroes, then at some point we might have to say him owning Bucky was the one off good showing.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dunno, if Spidey keeps getting easily overpowered by other heroes, then at some point we might have to say him owning Bucky was the one off good showing.

Which heroes "easily overpowered" him in terms of strength? Star-Lord did not overpower him. He used his alien tech to restrain Peter. Cap didn't easily overpower him. He dropped a jet bridge on him. We're not debating combat competence right now. We're debating actual strength level. Hell, according to the Russos on the audio commentary, as well as an interview with the one VFX guy, the reason Spiderman is one of the last to fade is due to his power level and him actively resisting the snap.

https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-spider-man-death-vfx/

https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-infinity-war-heres-why-spider-man-took-longer-to-disappear-than-everyone-else/

Cap was holding back against Thanos.

Well you have cap beating spiderman, and then you also have iron man telling spiderman that cap could beat him. So that's at least two movies showing that cap>spider man. Then you also scenes with black panther being able to handle bucky easily and cap being portrayed as on or above his level. Plus the just plain better feats of strengths cap has like holding back a helicopter and throwing a motorcycle through a truck. Bucky seems like cap's outlier.

We've already had this exact same conversation regarding BP vs WS in other threads before. Black Panther was literally trying to kill Bucky. He was not trying to kill Cap. Bucky was always either trying to reason with him or escape somewhere else (on the run from the Spec Ops, then escaping the building in WS mode, then trying to get to the secret Hydra base with Cap). Plus, he was essentially weaponless, as the suit showed capable of somehow countering his robo arm more than once.

And as had already been mentioned, Cap beat Spiderman via environmental exploitation. Not because of outclassing him in stats.

The Russos themselves described Steve and Bucky as "equally potent", "doppelgangers" etc. during TWS audio commentary.

And of course Steve is going to end up with a lot more flashy feats, as he's had more than twice as much screen time as Bucky has.

Like I said, you can believe whatever you want. But don't expect others to do so.

So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?

And Tony specifically told Pete that steve could play him out any time he wanted. And steve wins their tug of war when he goes for his shield.

I don't put a lot of weight on what a director says after the fact. Show don't tell, ya know.

You believe what ever you want, but evidence shows cap is consistently getting stronger and should be stronger by both bucky and cable

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Which heroes "easily overpowered" him in terms of strength? Star-Lord did not overpower him. He used his alien tech to restrain Peter. Cap didn't easily overpower him. He dropped a jet bridge on him. We're not debating combat competence right now. We're debating actual strength level. Hell, according to the Russos on the audio commentary, as well as an interview with the one VFX guy, the reason Spiderman is one of the last to fade is due to his power level and him actively resisting the snap.

https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-spider-man-death-vfx/

https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-infinity-war-heres-why-spider-man-took-longer-to-disappear-than-everyone-else/


Well thats interesting about his power level.

But what I meant in terms of combat feats. If we start to go the route of talking consistency, it doesnt look good for Spidey at the moment (for 1vs 1s).

But obviously his strength is undeniable - Ferry feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


And as had already been mentioned, Cap beat Spiderman via environmental exploitation. Not because of outclassing him in stats.




I dont think thats a fair justification. It wasnt like Revenge of the Sith with Obi-Wan having the high ground. Thats an example of clear environmental context, that doesnt really show the winner necessarily being the superior combatant.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
This isnt the Off-Topic Circle Jerk Quanchi. In other words, keep your shit in your ass! This is another poster.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Only a complete idiot would think IM was going all out against Cap in CW.

Again, Cap has gotten hit by firearms and weapons before. He's not invincible.

Only a complete idiot would think Captain America was going all out at the end of WS.

That doesn't translate in Cable winning! If it's true that many other beings have disarmed Cap, they haven't defeated him. Plus, this beings are above Cable's league.

It's simple, Cap will close the distance with Cable rendering his weapon useless and turning the fight into a H2H close quarters, where Cap would obliterate.

Pretty simple.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?

So, you are just going to straight-up strawman me now? I literally said that saying Cap was not trying to kill him is perfectly reasonable. The argument was that he would not intentionally let himself get overpowered. That =/= killing Bucky. Seriously, I really don't get what's so hard to understand.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont think thats a fair justification. It wasnt like Revenge of the Sith with Obi-Wan having the high ground. Thats an example of clear environmental context, that doesnt really show the winner necessarily being the superior combatant.

I can't believe I have to say this again. I am not discussing who is a more capable combatant right now, as I have said repeatedly. Steve is clearly a more skilled and tactical combatant, hence exploiting the environment to quickly end the fight. But he did not win because he is stronger, faster, tougher etc.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
So when buck isn't trying to kill panther, it makes sense he doesn't try as hard as the blood thirsty revenge cat, but when the same logic applies to steve not wanting to kill his mind controlled best friend, we ignore it?


There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

Actually there is. When cap is on the boat at the beginning, one of the pirates he gets in a fight with calls steve out for holding back too much. Steve then downs him pretty quickly. This suggests steve usually does hold back pretty significantly at the start of any fight unless he's positive his opponent could take the punishment.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Actually there is. When cap is on the boat at the beginning, one of the pirates he gets in a fight with calls steve out for holding back too much. Steve then downs him pretty quickly. This suggests steve usually does hold back pretty significantly at the start of any fight unless he's positive his opponent could take the punishment.

So you're saying Cap has no qualms knifing opponents in the back but somehow decides to hold back when fighting h2h?

Also, can you quote the exact words of that pirate you're referring to, because I don't think I recall this conversation.

Yes

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no proof that Cap wasn't going all out against Bucky in the bridge fight.

What the hell son!?

The entirety of CA:WS was about Steve trying to reason with Bucky! He even ended up saving Bucky's ass and almost sacrificing his by the end of the movie!

Should Cap have fought Bucky the way he fought IM in CW, Bucky would have been obliterated.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Yes

That's illogical. Also, please provide a quote of that pirate you mentioned, as I don't think that's what he actually said.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
What the hell son!?

The entirety of CA:WS was about Steve trying to reason with Bucky! He even ended up saving Bucky's ass and almost sacrificing his by the end of the movie!

Should Cap have fought Bucky the way he fought IM in CW, Bucky would have been obliterated.

I guess you haven't watched WS then? Show me where Cap tried to reason with Bucky on the bridge fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I guess you haven't watched WS then? Show me where Cap tried to reason with Bucky on the bridge fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObYPk1vK6k

First seconds, that's clearly reasoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEBRrUp0vg

Damn if the second scene isn't about reasoning, then you've got problems kid!!!

If you claim that CA was fighting Bucky seriously then I can safely claim IM was fighting Cap seriously!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObYPk1vK6k

First seconds, that's clearly reasoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEBRrUp0vg

Damn if the second scene isn't about reasoning, then you've got problems kid!!!

If you claim that CA was fighting Bucky seriously then I can safely claim IM was fighting Cap seriously!

That's not the bridge fight. Try again. Do you even know what I'm talking about?

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's not the bridge fight. Try again. Do you even know what I'm talking about?

Maybe you should specify yourself son, cause that is clearly a bridge inside the Helicarrier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

Is this the scene you are talking about Froth? Cause, it's pretty clear Captain America defeated Bucky in that scene

But thanks for proving my claim.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Maybe you should specify yourself son, cause that is clearly a bridge inside the Helicarrier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

Is this the scene you are talking about Froth? Cause, it's pretty clear Captain America defeated Bucky in that scene

But thanks for proving my claim.

So you admit that Cap didn't reason with Bucky in that scene?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you admit that Cap didn't reason with Bucky in that scene?

Yes, I thought you were talking about the Helicarrier bridge scene. Are you claiming Bucky defeated Cap in that scene?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes, I thought you were talking about the Helicarrier bridge scene. Are you claiming Bucky defeated Cap in that scene?

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. I'm claiming nobody won that fight, nor did anyone seem more dominant. Fight ended unresolved.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Thank you for admitting you were wrong. I'm claiming nobody won that fight, nor did anyone seem more dominant. Fight ended unresolved.

Please! Then you are blind, cause by the end of the fight Bucky was unarmed and unmasked whilst Cap was standing up with his shield ready for round 2!

Good, cause this proves that Cable will be unarmed by Cap

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Please! Then you are blind, cause by the end of the fight Bucky was unarmed and unmasked whilst Cap was standing up with his shield ready for round 2!

Good, cause this proves that Cable will be unarmed by Cap

So WS being unmasked is him being defeated? Lol. You've got some weird definitions. Bucky wasn't harmed or injured, wasn't even breathing hard.

Also, you're the one who's blind, or did you not see the part where WS still had a gun and pointed it at Cap before he got tag-teamed by Falcon and Widow?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So WS being unmasked is him being defeated? Lol. You've got some weird definitions. Bucky wasn't harmed or injured, wasn't even breathing hard.

Also, you're the one who's blind, or did you not see the part where WS still had a gun and pointed it at Cap before he got tag-teamed by Falcon and Widow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

Minute 3:02. He lost his machine gun, and was unmasked. Cap was standing just find with his shield in hand. That's a clear sign of superiority!

The moment Cap saw his face he stopped fighting.

Either way, Bucky isn't on Cap's league. Cap manage to held his own against IM which bucky couldn't. That automatically puts Cap above Bucky.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg

Minute 3:02. He lost his machine gun, and was unmasked. Cap was standing just find with his shield in hand. That's a clear sign of superiority!

The moment Cap saw his face he stopped fighting.

Either way, Bucky isn't on Cap's league. Cap manage to held his own against IM which bucky couldn't. That automatically puts Cap above Bucky.

And at 3:15 Bucky pointed a gun at Cap. Proving that he wasn't disarmed. So again, you are mistaken.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And at 3:15 Bucky pointed a gun at Cap. Proving that he wasn't disarmed. So again, you are mistaken.

A pistol which he had hidden in his vest. He lost his machine gun and knife. Should the fight had continue, he would have lost that pistol as well.

Cap wins, stop swimming against the current boy.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
A pistol which he had hidden in his vest. He lost his machine gun and knife. Should the fight had continue, he would have lost that pistol as well.

Cap wins, stop swimming against the current boy.

In short, I had just proven you wrong on a bunch of things you said like:

1. Cap was always reasoning with Bucky
2. Cap had completely disarmed Bucky
3. Cap always has his shield
4. Cap defeated Bucky in the bridge fight


These were all points you were using to say Cap defeats Cable in a weapons fight. And after getting your arguments utterly destroyed, you just go "Oh well, Cap wins anyway"

Originally posted by FrothByte
In short, I had just proven you wrong on a bunch of things you said like:

1. Cap was always reasoning with Bucky
2. Cap had completely disarmed Bucky
3. Cap always has his shield
4. Cap defeated Bucky in the bridge fight


These were all points you were using to say Cap defeats Cable in a weapons fight. And after getting your arguments utterly destroyed, you just go "Oh well, Cap wins anyway"

In short.

1. You cant be specific
2. prove I said COMPLETELY
3. Prove I said that Cap always had his shield.
4. He did. The fact that you cant grasp Caps superiority in that fight is your problem son.

P.S: Cap defeated Bucky in the Helicarrier despite him being emotional.

Conclusion: Cap beats Bucky and Cable. Youve lost.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
In short.

1. You cant be specific
2. prove I said COMPLETELY
3. Prove I said that Cap always had his shield.
4. He did. The fact that you cant grasp Caps superiority in that fight is your problem son.

P.S: Cap defeated Bucky in the Helicarrier despite him being emotional.

Conclusion: Cap beats Bucky and Cable. Youve lost.

1. This is what you said, "The entirety of CA:WS was about Steve trying to reason with Bucky!" - which you clearly were wrong about but are too arrogant to admit it.

2. This is what you said, "by the end of the fight Bucky was unarmed and unmasked" - by the end of the fight, I proved that Bucky had a pistol pointed at Cap. Again, you were proven wrong but are too arrogant to admit it. Hint: You aren't 'unarmed' if you're still holding a weapon.

3. You're right, you didn't say "always have his shield". So am I to assume you agree that Cap loses his shield every now and then during a fight?

4. Both of them are standing at the end of the fight, both completely in shape to continue. Bucky is not harmed and isn't breathing hard. Bucky points a gun and gets ready to shoot Cap when he is interrupted by Falcon. What in that scenario shows that Cap won?

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. This is what you said, "The entirety of CA:WS was about Steve trying to reason with Bucky!" - which you clearly were wrong about but are too arrogant to admit it.

2. This is what you said, "by the end of the fight Bucky was unarmed and unmasked" - by the end of the fight, I proved that Bucky had a pistol pointed at Cap. Again, you were proven wrong but are too arrogant to admit it. Hint: You aren't 'unarmed' if you're still holding a weapon.

3. You're right, you didn't say "always have his shield". So am I to assume you agree that Cap loses his shield every now and then during a fight?

4. Both of them are standing at the end of the fight, both completely in shape to continue. Bucky is not harmed and isn't breathing hard. Bucky points a gun and gets ready to shoot Cap when he is interrupted by Falcon. What in that scenario shows that Cap won?

1. Go watch the movie again. From the moment Steve realized it was Bucky he stopped being serious. And still, Cap defeated Bucky in the end, ergo you are wrong.

2. Thanks for admitting I never said completely ergo you are wrong.

3. Concession accepted. He will still beat up Cable son.

4. Cap was startled to discover it was his friend the one under the mask. He stopped fighting, otherwise he would have defeated Bucky like he did by the end of the movie.

Cap wins. Just accept it.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. Go watch the movie again. From the moment Steve realized it was Bucky he stopped being serious. And still, Cap defeated Bucky in the end, ergo you are wrong.

2. Thanks for admitting I never said completely ergo you are wrong.

3. Concession accepted. He will still beat up Cable son.

4. Cap was startled to discover it was his friend the one under the mask. He stopped fighting, otherwise he would have defeated Bucky like he did by the end of the movie.

Cap wins. Just accept it.

1. Just to clarify then, you're now saying that Cap was only reasoning with Bucky when he realized it was Bucky, not throughout the entire movie as you were originally claiming?

2. When a person is "unarmed", they are COMPLETELY weaponless, otherwise you are still armed. Maybe next time learn what words actually mean first before using them in a debate.

3. I noticed you side stepped my question. Again I ask, do you agree that Cap sometimes loses his shield during a fight?

4. I'm still waiting for you to tell me exactly how Bucky was defeated in that bridge fight, not what you believe would have happened. What sign was there that Bucky was defeated when he had a gun pointed at Cap?

Over the course of the fight bucky lost his machine gun, knife, and grenade launcher. How is cap the one on the chopping block for losing his shield when he recovers it every three seconds?

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Over the course of the fight bucky lost his machine gun, knife, and grenade launcher. How is cap the one on the chopping block for losing his shield when he recovers it every three seconds?

Because no-one here is claiming that Bucky can beat Cable with full weaponry. However, what some people (Josh) is claiming is that Cap w/ his shield can defeat a fully armed Cable. That's why it's Cap that is being put under the microscope, not WS.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Because no-one here is claiming that Bucky can beat Cable with full weaponry. However, what some people (Josh) is claiming is that Cap w/ his shield can defeat a fully armed Cable. That's why it's Cap that is being put under the microscope, not WS.

He disarmed Bucky. He will disarm Cable.

The difference here is that Bucky is a better fighter than Cable.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Just to clarify then, you're now saying that Cap was only reasoning with Bucky when he realized it was Bucky, not throughout the entire movie as you were originally claiming?

2. When a person is "unarmed", they are COMPLETELY weaponless, otherwise you are still armed. Maybe next time learn what words actually mean first before using them in a debate.

3. I noticed you side stepped my question. Again I ask, do you agree that Cap sometimes loses his shield during a fight?

4. I'm still waiting for you to tell me exactly how Bucky was defeated in that bridge fight, not what you believe would have happened. What sign was there that Bucky was defeated when he had a gun pointed at Cap?

Wont spend more time here.

Cap defeated Bucky. He will defeat Cable.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Wont spend more time here.

Cap defeated Bucky. He will defeat Cable.

Of course you won't, that's because you know I just destroyed your arguments and you don't have any comeback. So you take the coward's way out and avoid replying to me.

(auto quote)[/quickquote

Ohh please!!!

The fact that Cap defeated Bucky is argument enough to bury your entire case son

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
(auto quote)

You just keep proving that you're unable to properly rebut my statements. Like I said: Coward's way out.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Of course you won't, that's because you know I just destroyed your arguments and you don't have any comeback. So you take the coward's way out and avoid replying to me.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Because no-one here is claiming that Bucky can beat Cable with full weaponry. However, what some people (Josh) is claiming is that Cap w/ his shield can defeat a fully armed Cable. That's why it's Cap that is being put under the microscope, not WS.

But doesn't that say something about cap's ability to disarm opponents with multiple weapons? It seems like it shows that he would be able to strip cable of his arsenal if he was able to the same to bucky

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But doesn't that say something about cap's ability to disarm opponents with multiple weapons? It seems like it shows that he would be able to strip cable of his arsenal if he was able to the same to bucky

The caveat here is that Cable is not WS and they should not be treated interchangeably. Cable's weapons, for one, are far more advanced than WS's weapons and behave differently. For example, how exactly is Cap going to disarm Cable from his shielding device? His rifle has a larger area of effect that might be big enough that Cap can't block the entire blast. Or it might be strong enough to knock Cap off his feat despite blocking it.

There's also the fact that Cable can telekinetically call back his weapons to him.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's also the fact that Cable can telekinetically call back his weapons to him.

Yep. At one point during the prison scene, he even telekinetically yanks the gun right out of Wade's grip and back into his own hands. So, disarming him for any length of time is easier said than done.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Just to clarify then, you're now saying that Cap was only reasoning with Bucky when he realized it was Bucky, not throughout the entire movie as you were originally claiming?

2. When a person is "unarmed", they are COMPLETELY weaponless, otherwise you are still armed. Maybe next time learn what words actually mean first before using them in a debate.

3. I noticed you side stepped my question. Again I ask, do you agree that Cap sometimes loses his shield during a fight?

4. I'm still waiting for you to tell me exactly how Bucky was defeated in that bridge fight, not what you believe would have happened. What sign was there that Bucky was defeated when he had a gun pointed at Cap?

Just to prove you wrong again.

1. When I said Cap was trying to reason with Bucky through the entire movie it was figuratively. Not literal. But it seems your brain can't grasp such concepts.

2. Bucky was disarmed from his knife and machine gun, that was my point.

3. I never disagreed! lol

4. He was disarmed, unmasked and Cap stopped fighting because he discover it was his friend he had just beaten up.


I can keep on your folly all day long Froth! Just trying to prove you that!

Now, I wont, simply because Cap defeated Bucky by the end of WS. In other words, no argument you can bring will change the fact that Cap is better.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The caveat here is that Cable is not WS and they should not be treated interchangeably. Cable's weapons, for one, are far more advanced than WS's weapons and behave differently. For example, how exactly is Cap going to disarm Cable from his shielding device? His rifle has a larger area of effect that might be big enough that Cap can't block the entire blast. Or it might be strong enough to knock Cap off his feat despite blocking it.

There's also the fact that Cable can telekinetically call back his weapons to him.



Loki's scepter > Cable's weapon
IM's weapons > Cable's weapon
Thor's hammer > Cable's weapon

The fact that Cable has a better weapon than Bucky doesn't mean he is defeating Cap. Specially when considering that Bucky is a better fighter than Cable.

The moment Cap gets close to Cable he wins this!

Sorry to break your illusions son.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Just to prove you wrong again.

1. When I said Cap was trying to reason with Bucky through the entire movie it was figuratively. Not literal. But it seems your brain can't grasp such concepts.

These were your exact words:

"Winter Soldier is a better fighter than Cable. And, remember Cap never fought him seriously."

Doesn't sound figurative to me. Seems to me you were caught saying something incorrect but instead of being an adult about it and admitting your fault you had to lie through your teeth and now keep trying to weasel out of it.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

2. Bucky was disarmed from his knife and machine gun, that was my point.

You said he was unarmed. Unarmed means you are completely weaponless. Again, if you were mistaken in your use of the word unarmed then just admit that you were mistaken. There's a difference between "disarmed" and "unarmed".


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

3. I never disagreed! lol

So you agree that Cap loses his shield during a fight, which means there are times he can't defend himself with it. Glad to see you agreeing with common sense for once.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

4. He was disarmed, unmasked and Cap stopped fighting because he discover it was his friend he had just beaten up.

Disarmed but not unarmed. Unmasked but uninjured and unharmed. Again, not even breathing hard and was perfectly willing to continue fighting. Throwing someone to the ground who rolls and comes back up to his feet is not "beating them up". You really need to learn the english language if you want to continue debating.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

I can keep on your folly all day long Froth! Just trying to prove you that!

Now, I wont, simply because Cap defeated Bucky by the end of WS. In other words, no argument you can bring will change the fact that Cap is better.

WS is not Cable. WS does not use the same weaponry as Cable. WS is not even part of this conversation. Red herring much?

Originally posted by FrothByte


WS is not Cable. WS does not use the same weaponry as Cable. WS is not even part of this conversation. Red herring much?

Will just obmit all the BS you brought previously since am not here to correct your misinterpretations and lack of sense.

Cable isn't WS. The only reason Bucky was keeping up with Cap is because he is a top elite fighter, not due to him having weapons.

Mjolnir, Scepter, IM, and Ultron >>>>>> Cable's rifle.

You lose again.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Will just obmit all the BS you brought previously since am not here to correct your misinterpretations and lack of sense.

Cable isn't WS. The only reason Bucky was keeping up with Cap is because he is a top elite fighter, not due to him having weapons.

Mjolnir, Scepter, IM, and Ultron >>>>>> Cable's rifle.

You lose again.

Like I said, coward's way out. You know you can't argue against the points I raised, specifically the ones that proved you were lying. So you ignore them and hope you can get away with it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Like I said, coward's way out. You know you can't argue against the points I raised, specifically the ones that proved you were lying. So you ignore them and hope you can get away with it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Like I said, coward's way out. You know you can't argue against the points I raised, specifically the ones that proved you were lying. So you ignore them and hope you can get away with it.

Concession accepted. You are avoiding the real debate here by trying to mislead me into debating your lack of common sense.

Won't happen son!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Concession accepted. You are avoiding the real debate here by trying to mislead me into debating your lack of common sense.

Won't happen son!

Don't know what "lack of common sense" has to do with pointing out that you literally lied about what you said. Or how you don't even know what "unarmed" means.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't know what "lack of common sense" has to do with pointing out that you literally lied about what you said. Or how you don't even know what "unarmed" means. A little bit of both.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't know what "lack of common sense" has to do with pointing out that you literally lied about what you said. Or how you don't even know what "unarmed" means.

Debating is over it seems.

Thanks for proving my point. Avoiding the topic has always been your speciality

Originally posted by quanchi112
A little bit of both.

Ohh darling, where you there this whole time????

My bad, I have such a terrible sight when spotting cheerleaders is concerned

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Naah, I think you are tired of me wiping your ass all over the board. That's why you've opted for cheerleading.

Either way, am not here to argue with coward cheerleaders. You are delusional and not someone anyone takes seriously. Bye, troll.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are delusional and not someone anyone takes seriously.


Oh the Irony

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh the Irony Says the guy who marveled at my debating prowess.