Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Darth Vader has his personal Tie-Fighter and Anakin has his personal Delta-7 Aethersprite starfighter AKA Azure Ange

Wasn't Vader's piloting skills the only thing that didn't really decrease after the Mustafar "accident"? If so then Vader prolly wins...

Vader in his tie.

Vader has more experience and a better ship, along with being better with the force (he used the force to tell a gunner when to fire to destroy an escaping vessel).

He wins.

And yes, Kamikz, it says in RODV that his piloting skills didn't suffer at all (You already knew that, I was just confirming it, more for other people who read this).

I say Anakin, for one thing he has better reflexes, and I highly doubt that Vader Tie Advanced is a better ship, the Delta seems a lot more maneuverable, stealthy, sleek, ect. Plus, how often did Vader fly during the OT and between ROTS and ANH? Wasn't the last time ESB Vader flew during ANH, and after that it was in SoTE, right? Anakin flies in space battles during the Clone Wars all the time, he'd be more "in shape". So he wins.

Explain how he has better reflexes if his piloting abilities didn't decrease. Also, if something is said not to decrease, than he is, at the very least, as good as he was before, potentially better. Vader takes this.

It doesn't make sense that his piloting skills would have remained as good, given that his force connection went down exponentially. His reflexes, and general precognition would have severely gone down. The quote is likely referring to his technical piloting ability.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Explain how he has better reflexes if his piloting abilities didn't decrease. Also, if something is said not to decrease, than he is, at the very least, as good as he was before, potentially better. Vader takes this.
Because he didn't have as much practice, so, naturally, his piloting reflexes would go down. It was said that they didn't decrease by the time of RODV, which was when he was still in practice, by ESB they'd have gone down since he rarely flew, that I know of. I may reconsider, if you can list several instances where he flew not long before ESB.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I say Anakin, for one thing he has better reflexes, and I highly doubt that Vader Tie Advanced is a better ship, the Delta seems a lot more maneuverable, stealthy, sleek, ect. Plus, how often did Vader fly during the OT and between ROTS and ANH? Wasn't the last time ESB Vader flew during ANH, and after that it was in SoTE, right? Anakin flies in space battles during the Clone Wars all the time, he'd be more "in shape". So he wins.

Anakin would not have better reflexes, i don't think Vader just sat around for 20 years after ROTS, and there is no question the tie is better, and Vader is older and smarter than Anakin.

Vader takes this. The only thig Anakin could do between RotS and ESB was improve, and that's what he did.

Vader.

Originally posted by kiddo44
there is no question the tie is better, and Vader is older and smarter than Anakin.

Despite the fact the Saesee Tiin's personal starfighter is described as 'one of the fastest Atmospheric crafts in the Jedi fleet' in The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, yet the Delta-7's speed transcends that by 4,000 k/ph.

Now, the TIE fighter isn't even nearly as quick as even Tiin's Cutlass-9. Plus, its acceleration of gravity surpasses a TIE fighter's by roughly a thousand.

Moreover, the Azure Angel is equipped with four laser cannons, compared to the TIE's two, and has a proton torpedo launcher.

In other words, its FAR better than Vader's TIE.

No, vader ran the Emperor's military, that in no way means that he practiced flying. What makes the Tie better?

And why would Vader choose to practice his flying skills when instead he could practice his Force and saber skills? Plus I doubt that Anakin would get hit by the tie that Han shot, he would have simply dodged it. Nor would he have missed Luke's X-Wing and instead hit R2-D2.

Originally posted by Riverollv
In other words, its FAR better than Vader's TIE.

Lol, yes. Good paraphrase.

Not to mention it possesses a greater maneuverability.

Does it?

The Tie Advanced i would think have more shields, and also has a cluster missle launcher or something like that, which would be hard to dodge, maybe the Delta is faster, but still think Vader takes this,b/c he would be a much better pilot 25 years later.

If we count the ship's speed, firepower, etc. overall, Anakin's Azure Angel is far better than Vader's TIE, as Advent has already proven. So, if Anakin wins it will probably be becuz of his fighter, only, I think.

I don't know, i think its pretty even, Anakin has probably better precognition, reflexes... but Vader knows his former self, his old weaknesses and flaws, has more control over himself, he thinks better and formulates plans, while Anakin just improvises, but i would say it depends on who has a better fighter.
So, who does have a better fighter, Advent said its Anakins, but Vader had time to perfect his(better technology), i don't think he uses ordinary TIE fighter and he flown in Delta fighter, wouldn't he use and modify his fighter to use all the good from Delta and add some new. I could be wrong and therefore am still undecided.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Somehow I think it's rather stupid to put different versions of the same character against each other in a versus thread. Reasons ?

a) The later version would know the younger version inside out while this can't be said vice versa. That always gives the older (meaning advanced in age) version of the character a nice advantage.

b) Talking about force users: They only get stronger over time. At least in terms of force powers. They might lose some dexterity and physical strength but in most cases this can easily be ignored due to their ability to aid themselves using the force.

Now really. If the first movies would have been filmed with the technical (and financial) abilities that Lucas has at hand today, nobody would even argue that. ANH Ben and Vader would move around like Dooku (at least) if not going completely CGI and turning the fight into another Yoda VS Sidious. I really don't see why Ben should have lost his fighting skills or speed suddenly, when much older force users (e.g. Dooku or Yoda) didn't.

This being said, ANH Ben would kick the ass of any former version of himself, be it TPM, AotC or RotS Obi-Wan. That battles will be long (Soresu VS Soresu) but old Ben does really have all advantages on his side.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Advent said its Anakins, but Vader had time to perfect his(better technology)

Better technology? Yes, to a certain extent. A TIE fighter's statistics are far worse than that of even a regular Delta-7. Now, considering the fighter was only said to have a slight increase in speed (as listed in tNEGtV), how would it be any better?

And where does it say that Darth Vader made any sort of adjustments to the craft? It's possible, but that still does not change the fact that it's impossible to upgrade its base stats over 10,000 k/ph. That's ludicrous.



In A New Hope, he uses a TIE Advanced, which still is severely lacking in terms of speed, and acceleration of gravity in comparison to the Azure Angel. It's weapons consist of two lasers cannons, again the Delta-7 has four. It has a cluster missle launcher, which is a missle that doesn't track its target, as far as I know , whereas Anakin would be piloting something with a proton torpedo launcher.

So, as you can see, it doesn't matter, because the starcraft he uses isn't as good.



You do realize that the TIE line of starfighters are a completely separate class than that of the Delta series, correct? That's like ordering PS3 parts for an Xbox 360.

Really, an official source dictates that the TIE line (even the model Vader uses) has absolutely nothing on the Delta type crafts.



No, you are wrong.

Ouch, i didn't know much about any of the fighters, i just assumed that, if Vader had 20 more years he would have a better fighter, because of evolving technology, but if focally stated that Delta fighter is better, Ok then i agree, Anakin WINS, happy now. (I get the feeling that your in Dominatrix and related stuff)

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin WINS, happy now.

No, because I never so much as stated who would win this match up; merely that Anakin's starfighter is far more exceptional.

Although, Anakin would more than likely win, anyways.



You know, I get that a lot, surprisingly.

I don't think its that surprisingly.

Here's what the OS site says about Vader's TIE.

"Developed to Darth Vader's specifications, Sienar Fleet Systems constructed the TIE Advanced x1 as a predecessor to their later cutting edge fighters, the TIE Avenger and the TIE interceptor. Like the standard TIE fighter, the x1 prototype features powerful twin laser cannons and two solar gather panels that provide power to the ship's systems. Twin ion engines propel the craft at amazing speeds.
Unlike the standard TIE/ln starfighter, the x1 had a much more robust spaceframe, with reinforced durasteel-alloy hull, providing greater protection from enemy fire and stability during strenuous maneuvers. Also, abandoning previous Imperial design policies, considerable resources were spent to make the TIE Advanced hyperspace-capable, and the fighter was even equipped with deflector shields."

It doesn't show any comparisons to the Delta class, nor does it give specs on the ship. But one thing that is evident, is that it is superior to the regular TIE's.


Originally posted by darthsith19
Because he didn't have as much practice, so, naturally, his piloting reflexes would go down. It was said that they didn't decrease by the time of RODV, which was when he was still in practice, by ESB they'd have gone down since he rarely flew, that I know of. I may reconsider, if you can list several instances where he flew not long before ESB. It's funny how being out of practice for Ben is no big deal, but for Vader (who was a prodigal pilot and natural beast at it) it is. You have no idea how much he flew. And you don't lose experience...ever. How much do you think he flew before he was the only human to be able to pilot a podracer? You ever hear that expression, "it's like riding a bike, you never forget." Its just like that. Add in the fact that he was THE BEST pilot, and him taking some time off doesn't seem that it would hinder his abilities too much. And when he was out pwning rebel pilots, that wasn't long before ESB.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It doesn't make sense that his piloting skills would have remained as good, given that his force connection went down exponentially. His reflexes, and general precognition would have severely gone down. The quote is likely referring to his technical piloting ability. Skills give way to ability and ability is a window to skills. Either way you slice it, he couldn't have decreased.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
It doesn't show any comparisons to the Delta class, nor does it give specs on the ship. But one thing that is evident, is that it is superior to the regular TIE's.

And The New Essential Guide to Vehicle and Vessels does give statistics for both the TIE Advanced, and the Delta-7. So, your point is what exactly?

Everything I stated came directly from that book, or was otherwise made by using reason.

Originally posted by Advent
Really, an official source dictates that the TIE line (even the model Vader uses) has absolutely nothing on the Delta type crafts.

When I read this, I read quickly and thought it said "site" rather than "source", my mistake. I seem to be the only person here who can admit to a mistake. So thats the only reason I wrote that.

It's fine.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I seem to be the only person here who can admit to a mistake.

That's actually rather true. Not many would do that (I certainly wouldn't on most, if any, occasions lol).

Props to you.

So only 10 lashes tonight, Mistress? j/k

Originally posted by Advent
You do realize that the TIE line of starfighters are a completely separate class than that of the Delta series, correct? That's like ordering PS3 parts for an Xbox 360.

Really, an official source dictates that the TIE line (even the model Vader uses) has absolutely nothing on the Delta type crafts.


Nah, PS3 would be too good. Better to say: It's like ordering PS2 parts for an Xbox 360.

Originally posted by Advent
You do realize that the TIE line of starfighters are a completely separate class than that of the Delta series, correct? That's like ordering PS3 parts for an Xbox 360.

Really, an official source dictates that the TIE line (even the model Vader uses) has absolutely nothing on the Delta type crafts.


Nah, PS3 parts would be too good. It would be better to say: It's like ordering PS2 parts for an Xbox 360, cuz the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are pretty much the same, and the Xbox 360 is better than PS2 obviously. Though, I get your point.

Oops, sorry. My computer is kinda screwed up.

Originally posted by Riverollv
It's like ordering PS2 parts for an Xbox 360, cuz the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are pretty much the same

No, PS3 parts are made for the PS3. Unless you can use them on the Xbox 360 (you can't), then my analogy was correct.

Edit: It didn't so much have to do with the quality, or performance of said consoles, but the fact that you can't use the PS3's composite cables on the 360, for example. Though, your analogy still could've been used, anyways. Almost any two consoles that are separate of each other could be.

Since it clearly states in RODV that Vader's flying skills didn't suffer from his injuries then he beats Anakin (himself lol).

Vader should know his younger version inside out...

Yeah, he does, but he has become more arrogant, and that could lead him to his defeat

Originally posted by Riverollv
Yeah, he does, but he has become more arrogant, and that could lead him to his defeat

Vader has become more arrogant than Anakin? Do tell.

I mean like, when he completely turned to the Dark Side, he became more arrogant. Vader would think, since he knows his younger version perfectly, that he could beat him EASILY, while it's probably not true.

In other words, he would highly understimate his younger version

Yea, Anakin was far more arrogant, especially in his fight with Kenobi- You underestimate my power. Vader has learned from his mistakes and is much more int control of himself, that Anakin ever was.

Anakin is more arrogant, I think.

Vader is as well, at least in this fight. Wouldn't you think Vader would underestimate his younger version?

Maybe

Maybe, but just a little and thats a maybe and Anakin would be more arrogant, he doesn't know who Vader is and he thinks of himself the best pilot in the universe by far, which he is in his time, but Vader is on pair with him.

It could go either way...

I think Vader is better than Anakin anyway, but with a superior craft (his ship is better than Anakin's) he definately takes this.

I don't know, Advent said that Anakin has a better craft and i would say that his reflexes are betters then Vaders, but i agree that Vader is a smarter pilot.

I'm afraid Advent is wrong. Anakin does not have a better craft. She has made the mistake of assuming that because Anakin's craft is far faster in atmosphere it is far faster in space. This is not so. Yes, Anakin's craft is the faster one, but only by a small amount in space.

Vader's craft IS more advanced than Anakin's. His ship has fewer laser canons, but this is unimportant in a dogfight because a short burst from 2 OR 4 lasers canons will destroy Anakin's ship anyway. It's the same reason the A-wing, which is possibly the most dedicated dogfighter in all of SW has only two canons. Neither ship needs much firepower.

Vader's craft has better shields and armor. It's a simple byproduct of having a ship more than 20 years more advanced than your opponents.

I don't know, maybe your right, but i will wait to see, what Advents reply is and then decide who has a better chance of wining. But i sense its going to be a long argument between you two.