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1.) Lightsaber battle
2. force fight, kun gets to use amulets
3. All out fight

Who do you think will win?

This is actually a good fight. I cant decide....

1. Kun wins. He is a lightsaber prodigy. He owned the two carth Jedi, true they are not exceptional but he still beat them both in no time, and he owned Vodo in his prime and stalemated Ulic. Revan's saber skills are pretty much unknown.



2. Kun, because Revan has no way of blocking the amulet, and even without the amulet, what has Revan done that compares with freezing the entire senate?



3. Kun wins.

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Kun wins. He is a lightsaber prodigy. He owned the two carth Jedi, true they are not exceptional but he still beat them both in no time, and he owned Vodo in his prime and stalemated Ulic. Revan's saber skills are pretty much unknown.
Revan was also described as a saber prodigy and the best in an order of tens of thousands. Simply being a 'lightsaber prodigy' doesn't guarantee victory for anybody.




There's no proof that Kun can control the amulet, much less even use it in a fight, especially against someone as powerful as Revan. What did Revan do that's on par with the stasis? I'd say ripping out the language of the Rakata and giving them basic. That's more impressive.

I say Revan all.

Kun takes all three.

Dude, Kun used the amulet to destroy an ancient Sith Beast, the spirit of Freedon Nadd and he used it to knock out Aleema Keto. What makes you say there's no proof that he can control it? Why the f*ck does it matter how powerful Revan is, the amulet is still the same, and can be fired, just the same.

He fired the amulet ONCE, when he was about to die. There's no proof that he could do it again, especially in the presence of another powerful force user.

Yea after thinking about it I have to go with Kun on this one too.

Two force users that are supremely overrated, because they were DLOTS at one time or another. I say Revan wins.

Revan's era had better top tiers, and he was easily a top 3 in his era.

Revan's era: The Exile, Kreia, Sion, Nihilus, Atris, Malak, Bastila, Uthar, Visas, Brianna etc.

Kun's era: Ulic, Nomi, Arca, Vodo, Doneeta, Warb Null, Ommin, Sylvar, Cay etc

Overrated? Hardly

Revan did however have a stronger era.

1. Kun.
2. 50/50 chances for both.
3. Revan.

In case of 1:

The fight would be very close. Kun can win however in this case, if he has got his double-bladed Light Saber.

In case of 2:

Revan seems to possess higher Force Mastery and he has great knowledge of Sith Lore. Kun's Force Mastery is also exceptional and he also has got amulets. This would be a very close fight and can go either way.

In case of 3:

Revan has got higher chances to win in an all out encounter because apart from being a powerful warrior, he is very smart and a great tactician. Though the fight would be very close.

Kun had about 6 months as Dark Lord to invent an entirely new weapon (the doublebladed lightsaber) and come up with an also entirely new style of fighting with this weapon. I highly doubt he is more skilled with a 2 blades than with 1 blade.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He fired the amulet ONCE, when he was about to die. There's no proof that he could do it again, especially in the presence of another powerful force user.
Dude, in the post above yours I named three times when he used it. So there's three times he used it that we know of and it's quite possible that he used it at other times that we didn't see.

No DS, he didn't use it to knock out Aleema. He used sith magic on her, to a greater degree. And he killed Nadd by sticking the amulet through his spirit. Not exactly "Using the amulet", now is it?

Oh my god, are you being difficult on purpose? You make me search through the comic just to prove you wrong. I hope you are happy:




http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_148.jpg

That is the amulet.




How isn't it using the amulet? He fired it up, shot it, and it destroyed Nadd's spirit. It doesn't matter how it killed the spirit, it still did. If it wasn't the amulet being fired that killed Nadd, what was it? It was definitely the amulet.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Oh my god, are you being difficult on purpose? You make me search through the comic just to prove you wrong. I hope you are happy:




http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_148.jpg

That is the amulet.
No, it's NOT the amulet. He says "Fool, Nadd has taught you the beginning of sith magic, but I have learned everything", and proceeds to shoot the same type of energy beam back at Aleema.






No, he didn't fire it up, he just stuck it into the spirit. How the hell is that "using" the amulet? He's going to stick it through Revan and make him disappear?

http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_102.jpg


http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_103.jpg
That is a second time that he uses the amulet.







That is the hand that the amulet is attached to, and you can see that the energy beam starts from his wrist, just like it does other times that he uses the amulet. Why did you post the quote, I have read it, and it doesn't say that it isn't the amulet. All it says is that it is "Sith magic" and the amulet is Sith magic.




You're right, I see now that he stuck it through him. I had remembered him blasting the spirit with the amulet. My bad. But he does use it against Aleema, and would use it against revan, especially if he were losing.

so to even the fight maybe we should take out Kun's amulet?

What the **** are you smoking? The properties of the amulet blast are completely different than that of his sith magic, which was the exact same property as Aleema's blast. You lose.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What the **** are you smoking? The properties of the amulet blast are completely different than that of his sith magic, which was the exact same property as Aleema's blast. You lose.
No, if you look a few pages later when Ulic and Kun are fighting the same red beam that emits from Kun as he attacks Aleems emits from the amulet again. I'll post a pic later if you really need me to.

Originally posted by darthsith19
No, if you look a few pages later when Ulic and Kun are fighting the same red beam that emits from Kun as he attacks Aleems emits from the amulet again. I'll post a pic later if you really need me to. If it was an amulet blast wouldn't it had disintegrated aleema?

I don't know, maybe Kun learned how to control the amulet and didn't use it to it's full extent on Aleems, just enough to knock her out. All I know it here is the blast he uses on Aleema:


http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_148.jpg


And it starts at the spot where his amulet is. Then the next page:




http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_Dark_Lords_of_the_Sith_149.jpg




That is the exact same substance that hit Aleema. It is coming from Kun's amulet, and Kun even says "What--! The Amulets!" And then the narration says "The light from the ancient talisman expands..."



That is proof that it was the amulet that he used on Aleema.

But why didn't it explode when it make contact to her skin or eat away at her skin? It could be some Sith Amulet "Force Energy Ray".

Im going to say it again. It is the SAME property as Aleema's sith magic, and this evidence is further strengthened by the fact that Kun recognizes Aleema has learned some sith magic and boasts that he has learned EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I don't know, maybe Kun learned how to control the amulet and didn't use it to it's full extent on Aleems, just enough to knock her out.

Originally posted by Advent
The blast didn't even so much as put a burn on Aleema's dress, even if it was toned down - there isn't even a little singe. He was actually mad, as you can obviously tell by his dialogue to Aleema when she claimed him to be a "pretender".

Furthermore, one should note that he was actually there to kill Aleema.

If he was capable of adjusting the intensity of the blast (which I'd argue he could by that time, anyways) and his objective was to eliminate Aleema, to say that he would only use "enough to knock her out" doesn't compute in the least bit.



If you want to talk comparisons, then simply compare the energy Aleema unleashes just a panel prior to Kun's attack on her, as shown in the picture you've provided.

While different in color (which wouldn't necessarily be unusual), it almost appears to be "the same exact substance" that Aleema used.



...Yes, and that "light" is emanating simply because the amulets are near each other, which is what caused Marka Ragnos to appear as both the narration and other various sources confirm.

If we followed your premise, the glow resonating from both of their amulets would've had to been unleashed by them, which it wasn't - as the dark energy is released voluntarily using the "dark rage" in one's heart, that is stated to be the only way its formed.

To see it unleash involuntarily suggests that it wasn't the "same substance", despite the similarities in appearance. As well, even Ulic's extremely weak rays of energy look nothing like Kun's attack against Aleema (which implies that even an impotent blast is still solid in its appearance ).



Hardly.

Originally posted by Advent
The reasons that would actually lead one to believe that it wasn't an amulet blast is pretty simple:

1.) The apparent form the blast took looked similar in design as the blast Aleema demonstrated one panel prior, it radically differs from the amulet blasts we see earlier on by that it's doesn't look like Goku's Kamehahahahahaha blast, or whatever (by that it's squiggly lines, and red).

2.) If you will, note his dialogue:

"Pretender! Nadd has only taught you the beginnings of Sith power, woman -- but I have learned everything!"

This seems to indicate that he was using the same attack except with more power, so as to show Aleema that what he has learned of Sith magic topples Aleema's own. She also calls him a "pretender", and it would make sense to even prove that he wasn't by using the same type of attack back at Aleema.

3.) The blast didn't even so much as put a burn on Aleema's dress, even if it was toned down - there isn't even a little singe. He was actually mad, as you can obviously tell by his dialogue to Aleema when she claimed him to be a "pretender". No burns? Different design? Dialogue? I'd say it was hardly an amulet blast.

I would suppose that you'd have a case if I couldn't challenge your supposed "proof", however, I can and have, and added my own proof from months ago.

I am so glad common sense has finally returned.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Revan has got higher chances to win in an all out encounter because apart from being a powerful warrior, he is very smart and a great tactician. Though the fight would be very close. Being a military tactician doesnt garentee victory in a fight, I guess thrawn would own mandalore in a fight then seeing he is an even better tactician than revan

Where does it say that he was there to kill her? he says he is there to kill Ulic, because Ulic is a threat to him. However, he doesn't view Aleema as a threat, so why would he wish to kill her?




Yeah, so? Doesn't Aleema have an amulet?




It doesn't matter why the substance is appearing, all that matters is that it is clearly the same thing that came out before. Both came from the amulet. Why it came from the amulet is irrelevent.



So what? If it was Sith magic it didn't put a burn on ehr dress either. I could take that same statement and say "It was the amulet, not Sith Magic, because Sith Magic would at least have burned her dress" wtf.




Wrong. It merely meant that he was going to use Sith Power. Which he did, since the amulet is Sith power.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Being a military tactician doesnt garentee victory in a fight, I guess thrawn would own mandalore in a fight then seeing he is an even better tactician than revan

Thank you.

You would think after my extensive leave from this forum, you would've improved slightly, but apparently not.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Where does it say that he was there to kill her?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5104/ketoamulet2gop3.th.png

"Kun has come to kill his potential rivals...Ulic Qel-Droma and Aleema!".

You were saying?



If you actually bothered to read the source material itself, rather than just steal a few pages from a website in an attempt to support your claim, you'd perhaps realize that Kun, indeed, was there to eliminate not only Ulic, but Aleema herself.

Due to the fact that when Freedon Nadd's spirit was destroyed via Sadow's gauntlet, he reaches out with his last ounce of strength to warn Satal and Aleema about Kun's power and ambition, as well that he is a "pretender to the Sith legacy" (which is why Aleema ridicules him and pronounces him a "pretender".

Also,

Originally posted by Advent
Furthermore, one should note that he was actually there to kill Aleema.

If he was capable of adjusting the intensity of the blast (which I'd argue he could by that time, anyways) and his objective was to eliminate Aleema, to say that he would only use "enough to knock her out" doesn't compute in the least bit.

The onus is on you to address this now since I've proven up on my end.



Again, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5104/ketoamulet2gop3.th.png

Qel-Droma receives the amulet from Keto prior to Kun waltzing in the citadel where they're situated at. Ergo,

Originally posted by Advent
If you want to talk comparisons, then simply compare the energy Aleema unleashes just a panel prior to Kun's attack on her, as shown in the picture you've provided.

While different in color (which wouldn't necessarily be unusual), it almost appears to be "the same exact substance" that Aleema used.

Furthermore,

Originally posted by Advent
1.) The apparent form the blast took looked similar in design as the blast Aleema demonstrated one panel prior, it radically differs from the amulet blasts we see earlier on by that it's doesn't look like Goku's Kamehahahahahaha blast, or whatever (by that it's squiggly lines, and red).

Originally posted by Advent
As well, even Ulic's extremely weak rays of energy look nothing like Kun's attack against Aleema (which implies that even an impotent blast is still solid in its appearance ).

QED.



You certainly don't know the properties of the amulet itself or how it operates rather.

It focuses the "dark rage in one's heart" to form beams of dark side energy. Therefore, the only way the energy would've been unleashed would be of his own will. If that's the case, then the energy emanating from the amulets would've been produced voluntarily, which it clearly wasn't.

The mere fact that the glow looked alike (Kun's offensive against Aleema and when the amulets were near each other) is likely due to the fact the amulet itself was formed using Sith magic and other various ancient Sith construction means.



Sith magic isn't dependent upon the amulet, as we see exhibited by Aleema.

With that being said, compare a completely different and full view of Aleema's Sith magic in action to Kun's:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4331/aleemattack1kspv7.th.png
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5005/kunaleemablast2kh2.th.png

They are nigh identical, save for the color (which as I said, wouldn't be unusual). Notice that the form and the way it is launched (arm extended forward with the fingers pointing straight out) are an exact match of each other.



Already addressed, see above; it's entirely relevant.



Why would it have? Prove that the technique would have singed her dress or even had any scorching effect to it. Oh? What's that? You can't?



No, you couldn't.

You completely lack the necessary evidence to prove that the Sith magic attack would've inflicted any external burns; ergo, you cannot apply that to the statement.

I, however, have on-panel evidence that proves the effects of the amulet beams themselves, in addition to logical deduction.

It's comedic that you would put a "WTF" at the end of that sentence and not even realize what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever.



Dumbsith, darthshit, whatever it is you go by now: your completely asinine assertions are the only thing that's wrong.



Your missing the point here, for clarification purposes:

Originally posted by Advent
2.) If you will, note his dialogue:

"Pretender! Nadd has only taught you the beginnings of Sith power, woman -- but I have learned everything!"

This seems to indicate that he was using the same attack except with more power, so as to show Aleema that what he has learned of Sith magic topples Aleema's own. She also calls him a "pretender", and it would make sense to even prove that he wasn't by using the same type of attack back at Aleema.

Why would he use the amulet? What possible personal reasons would he have to utilize the destructive power of the blasts? None. I've given a reason as to why he would use Sith magic (which is a point in my favor).

Originally posted by Manslayer
Being a military tactician doesnt garentee victory in a fight, I guess thrawn would own mandalore in a fight then seeing he is an even better tactician than revan
Apparently you forgot the word very smart in my point. You vastly under-estimate raw talent of Revan and so does Gideon.

Fights are not just won through using brute force and impressive force powers. Many other factors also count.

How do you think that Revan managed to fight his way through the Sith forces stationed in Endire Spire and reached Carth's position?

Then how do you think that he overcame several very difficult challenges that he faced on Taris?

Even Bastilla Shan was surprised by the scale of success he achieved in his exploits in Taris and that too without using the Force in combat.

Common sense has returned

Pull the copy of KotoR out of your ass and relax.



There are three problems with this line of thought:

a.) The phrase 'raw talent' is, actually, two words. Not one.

b.) Manslayer is absolutely correct. Intelligence is nice and all, but you have to substantiate it. If we went on pure intellect, Grand Admiral Thrawn or Raith Sienar would manhandle 99% of the Force users depicted. We've seen dumber people beat smarter people in duels before.

c.) I don't vastly underestimate anyone, Revan included. We've been round and round on this issue before; most people here believe I've got the scope of Revan's prowess nailed down 100%. The difference is, while I recognize Revan's brilliance and exceptional power, I also have no problem accepting that there are people who are: 1.) smarter than he is, 2.) stronger than he is, and 3.) smarter and stronger than he is.

^Agreed I'd also say that in every Revan debate with legend... c.) is brought up by us, I don't see the cycle ending anytime soon.

Legend im not even going to bother to argue with you on this one, i think its embarrassing enough that gideon constantly hands you your arse in every debate you attempt to suck revans dick

Originally posted by Gideon
Pull the copy of KotoR out of your ass and relax.
Who the hell are you to tell me that what I should prefer to debate on?

Originally posted by Gideon
There are three problems with this line of thought:

a.) The phrase 'raw talent' is, actually, two words. Not one.

b.) Manslayer is absolutely correct. Intelligence is nice and all, but you have to substantiate it. If we went on pure intellect, Grand Admiral Thrawn or Raith Sienar would manhandle 99% of the Force users depicted. We've seen dumber people beat smarter people in duels before.

c.) I don't vastly underestimate anyone, Revan included. We've been round and round on this issue before; most people here believe I've got the scope of Revan's prowess nailed down 100%. The difference is, while I recognize Revan's brilliance and exceptional power, I also have no problem accepting that there are people who are: 1.) smarter than he is, 2.) stronger than he is, and 3.) smarter and stronger than he is.
I am not going to waste my time on addressing your baseless points.

Just keep the case of Mara Jade vs Darth Caedus in mind.

If that is not enough then I can give an another example.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Legend im not even going to bother to argue with you on this one, i think its embarrassing enough that gideon constantly hands you your arse in every debate you attempt to suck revans dick
You like to live in fool's paradise actually.

I settled very well my most recent debate with Gideon in a thread not long ago.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I settled very well my most recent debate with Gideon in a thread not long ago. Oh that debate? He just couldnt be bothered to argue seeing that he himself said hes more fond of playing halo 3 than argue with a fanboy

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD





Just keep the case of Mara Jade vs Darth Caedus in mind.

If that is not enough then I can give an another example. Just keep in mind your original claim that "cuz revans a tactician in military = hes a supa smarto fighta!"

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh that debate? He just couldnt be bothered to argue seeing that he himself said hes more fond of playing halo 3 than argue with a fanboy
He did gave responses and can respond further. No one is stopping him.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Just keep in mind your original claim that "cuz revans a tactician in military = hes a supa smarto fighta!"
Seems like I am arguing with kids over here.

Here is a more clear explanation:

If a person is very smart, powerful and experienced, he will put up better fight than a person who is not very smart, though powerful.

In other words, your brain is a very useful ally to depend or rely upon when you are egaged in tough situations and not just your power.

Revan prefers to use his brain effectively in combat situations and not solely relies on brute force to subdue his enemies.

Now when you talk about using brain, it means that you should look forward to note any signs of weaknesses in your opponents and exploit them. It also means that you should be patient and carefully analyze your surroundings and then use the surroundings to your advantage during combat. The purpose is to out-smart your enemy to gain the upperhand during fight.

Revan is good at these things. Or in other words, his combat prowess is more efficient due to him being vastly experienced and smart thinker.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Revan prefers to use his brain effectively in combat situations and not solely relies on brute force to subdue his enemies.

Can you give me an example of revan in this situation where the omniscient narrator describes this?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Can you give me an example of revan in this situation where the omniscient narrator describes this?
Revan's personality is what you should keep in mind. Unlike Malak, he did not relied massively on brute force in combat situations.

Drew describes Revan as intelligent and adaptable.

He also gave a hint about fighting tactics of Revan: Revan was skilled in lightsaber combat, but knew that true strength came from using all the other Force abilities in conjunction with lightsaber combat.

Then we know that Revan was a very smart man. And a smart man would prefer to make wise decisions during tough situations. This is a matter of common sense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's personality is what you should keep in mind. Unlike Malak, he did not relied massively on brute force in combat situations.

Drew describes Revan as intelligent and adaptable.

He also gave a hint about fighting tactics of Revan: Revan was skilled in lightsaber combat, but knew that true strength came from using all the other Force abilities in conjunction with lightsaber combat.

Then we know that Revan was a very smart man. And a smart man would prefer to make wise decisions during tough situations. This is a matter of common sense. Where was this stated? Or did this come from his opinion which has yet to be approved?

EDIT

Once again legend you implied revan is a smart fighter because he is a tactician in a battle field

Then we know that Revan was a very smart man. And a smart man would prefer to make wise decisions during tough situations. This is a matter of common sense.

Thrawn is also a smart man, but is he a great fighter? You lack common sense legend. You have nothing solid to back up your claim that revan uses intelligence in a 1v1 fight and all you do is speculate with "Revan does X in situation Y, ergo, he can do X in situation A"

Originally posted by Manslayer
EDIT

Once again legend you implied revan is a smart fighter because he is a tactician in a battle field

Then we know that Revan was a very smart man. And a smart man would prefer to make wise decisions during tough situations. This is a matter of common sense.

Thrawn is also a smart man, but is he a great fighter? You lack common sense legend. You have nothing solid to back up your claim that revan uses intelligence in a 1v1 fight and all you do is speculate with "Revan does X in situation Y, ergo, he can do X in situation A"
Are you 5 year old or something?

Is Thrawn trained in Jedi Arts or something?

Revan however is trained in Jedi Arts apart from being smart. Do you even understand the difference between very smart and average?

A smart person uses his brain in conjunction with his skills to defeat his enemies in combat. He is called smart because he thinks smartly and makes smart moves during combat.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Where was this stated? Or did this come from his opinion which has yet to be approved?
The author of Revan - Drew Karpyshyn himself stated those comments.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The author of Revan - Drew Karpyshyn himself stated those comments. Where? In the novel? page number and quote please. Or did "you ask him yourself"? Or are you making things up?

Before you say "DK told me himself!", Drew's opinion would have to be approved by lucasarts authorities to even get the canon status


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you 5 year old or something?
Are you an idiot with no brains at all? Why dont you actually comprehend what i just typed


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Is Thrawn trained in Jedi Arts or something?

Idiot, that isnt the case nor the claim. The claim you made that because revan is a smart military tactician, it means he is smart during a fight because of that ability he has. I simply used a metaphor which any tom dick and harry can understand but because of your blatant fanboyism, you dont even want to consider understanding it.
You dont even understand the initial claim you made

Now smart ass, answer this question, if revan being a military tactician means he is the same during battle, how come it doesnt work vice versa? Like mara and caedus?

Ill tell you why, its because your a raging hormone fanboy of revan

legend, manslayer is right. just cuz one knows the art of war dosn't mean he knows the art of combat. if design a house doisen't mean you would be the best to build it. the fact is war and single combat are two completly diffrent things.

Originally posted by Atticus
legend, manslayer is right. just cuz one knows the art of war dosn't mean he knows the art of combat. if design a house doisen't mean you would be the best to build it. the fact is war and single combat are two completly diffrent things. Very good point, more logical than any of legend posts.

I applaud you atticus

Originally posted by Atticus
legend, manslayer is right. just cuz one knows the art of war dosn't mean he knows the art of combat. if design a house doisen't mean you would be the best to build it. the fact is war and single combat are two completly diffrent things.
Yeah! Revan does not knows the art of combat

Originally posted by Manslayer
Where? In the novel? page number and quote please. Or did "you ask him yourself"? Or are you making things up?

Before you say "DK told me himself!", Drew's opinion would have to be approved by lucasarts authorities to even get the canon status
Drew has total rights over Revan because he created that character. Lucas Arts will have no trouble in accepting his views.

I asked Drew about Revan's fighting style through E-Mail and he mentioned his opinion. So his opinion indeed holds merit.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Are you an idiot with no brains at all? Why dont you actually comprehend what i just typed
No! But I think that you are one.

You can't understand even basic English properly.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Idiot, that isnt the case nor the claim. The claim you made that because revan is a smart military tactician, it means he is smart during a fight because of that ability he has. I simply used a metaphor which any tom dick and harry can understand but because of your blatant fanboyism, you dont even want to consider understanding it.
You dont even understand the initial claim you made

Now smart ass, answer this question, if revan being a military tactician means he is the same during battle, how come it doesnt work vice versa? Like mara and caedus?

Ill tell you why, its because your a raging hormone fanboy of revan
Did I used the word "military tactican"?

I used the words "very smart" and "tactican." My choice of words are clearly different and have different meanings.

All I am trying to say is that Revan is a very smart person and knows very well about how to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. He is not the one who totally relies on brute force in combat.

And couple this with Drew's opinion: "Revan was skilled in lightsaber combat, but knew that true strength came from using all the other Force abilities in conjunction with lightsaber combat."

And you have got a "very smart figher" to contend with.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh that debate? He just couldnt be bothered to argue seeing that he himself said hes more fond of playing halo 3 than argue with a fanboy

Ive have also given up cause its an endless cycle and I can vouch for Gideon that Halo 3 is very addicting that's why i haven't been posting much myself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Drew has total rights over Revan because he created that character. Lucas Arts will have no trouble in accepting his views.

I asked Drew about Revan's fighting style through E-Mail and he mentioned his opinion. So his opinion indeed holds merit.
Im sorry but if it isnt approved by lucasarts or established in any canon sources, it holds no merit thus it isnt canon and cannot be taken into consideration

Dan wallace himself stated that in his opinion, palpatine is more poweful than marka ragnos and he said it only becomes canon if approved by the authorities.

Janus emailed daniel wallace on that matter. There you go, if not approved by authorities = it doesnt get the lfl stamp = it is not canon . Accept it and move on with life


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Did I used the word "military tactican"?

Indirectly yes, You used the word "Tactician" and you dont call smart fighters in a 1v1 battle "tactician". That word applies to tacticians who command the army in the battlefield.

So whos the one who doesnt understand english now?

Legend respond all you want, as hord and gideon are tired of going through this endless cycle, so am i. Frankly speaking you have become so annoying with your fanboyism kotor posts, im pretty sure even advent doesnt want to respond to your crap

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If a person is very smart, powerful and experienced, he will put up better fight than a person who is not very smart, though powerful.


Which would in this case be the equivalent of calling Kun "not very smart" which would be pretty stupid considering what Kun managed to do in a very short amount of time.



I didn't see Kun going WTF-brainless-berserk anywhere so once more I don't see where this does Revan any good in this fight.



And Kun keeps discussing philosophical issues while tooling his own former master in lightsaber combat. Can it be that the guy is not entirely lacking intelligence ? That aside from force pimp-slapping everybody he confronted without a lightsaber rather easily.



Which might work in certain situations. But being confronted with a guy who is an unright saber prodigy, fights with a style you don't know and a weapon you're unfamiliar with and this while being equipped with more force knowledge and force power than you are...well...it doesn't look as if "I'm using my brains" is the sufficient solution for that situation.



This is...useless.
Kun is much more focused on direct confrontation than Revan ever was. Yes. Revan might be smarter than Kun (actually we could even debate this going by what Kun has done) but Kun is by any means the better combatant. His force abilities are pretty well fitting for direct confrontation, add his amulets and the fact that the guy uses a unique melee weapon and style. Overpowering him with the force won't work (he resisted the most devastating light side attack there is) and outduelling him is also a very unlikely option. Outsmart him ? Possibly but also no easy task.

And sorry...I don't see Revan winning this. Especially not because of "he will be using his brains".

Except there's nothing really to debate in terms of intelligence, wit, and combat prowess, because Revan has all of these. Revan may have the advantage in overall force abilities and knowledge, but Kun has the offensive weapons. Overpowering him with the force won't work? Wow, so because force user X couldn't overpower him with the most powerful light side technique, that means force user Y couldn't overpower him with anything? Nevermind the fact that Revan is likely leagues above Odan Urr and Vodo in saber AND force abilities.

Do we know anything about revans style? No we don't. We do know he is a saber prodigy, however do we know how good the kotor era saber duelers are? No we don't hence it is difficult to compare revan and kun in terms of saber combat.

For kuns case we have an idea of how he fights employing an unknown style

I have no predisposition or bias for either Exar Kun or Revan , but I would personally enjoy seeing this debated. Bearing in mind that I am, by no means, an Exar Kun expert -- I would say that this is a very tall claim, Nai. It's incontrovertible that Darth Revan was an extremely gifted tactition based on what he managed to achieve in such little time. Having played KotOR, though, I am better informed in regards to Revan than Kun.

But when has Kun proved his intellectual merit in comparison to Revan?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Legend respond all you want, as hord and gideon are tired of going through this endless cycle, so am i. Frankly speaking you have become so annoying with your fanboyism kotor posts, im pretty sure even advent doesnt want to respond to your crap
You know what? It is these kinds of useless lines that turn debates in to heated personal insulting contests. I think that Mods should take strong notice of these personal insults.

I am not going to respond to your posts as long as change your attitude. And do not forget that I am very good at insulting people too.

Just keep in mind that my SW related preferences should not bother you.

You want a good example of debating? Check the response of Nai (Borbarad) to my reply.

He understood my points and responded to them accordingly without resorting to any silly comments. Now it is up to me to respond further or not but he did made a good start.

So better learn from these good debators.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You know what? It is these kinds of useless lines that turn debates in to heated personal insulting contests. I think that Mods should take strong notice of these personal insults. I have yet to actually attack you you know because i have been warned by ushgarak any more crap from me and i get a ban, So think twice before you think i insulted you in a manner enough to attract attention
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am not going to respond to your posts as long as change your attitude. And do not forget that I am very good at insulting people too.
Right so what if you can insult people, any kid can. Or are you trying to flatter me with your ego?
Go ahead and insult me, i wont even bother to retort, you will just look like a moron trying to preach out his egos by insulting a 16 year old kid about SW related matter.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You want a good example of debating? Check the response of Nai (Borbarad) to my reply. Did i ever say im a good debator? Nai is one of the best and greatest debators in KMC and he is an exar kun expert, im not. I only bother reading up on revan, sidious and vader because they are the characters i like
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He understood my points and responded to them accordingly without resorting to any silly comments. Now it is up to me to respond further or not but he did made a good start.

So better learn from these good debators. Firstly i wasnt even debating with you, Secondly i called out your ass because you made an assumption which have yet to be established anywhere in any sources but instead from someones opinion which has not been established canon yet

Originally posted by Manslayer
I have yet to actually attack you you know because i have been warned by ushgarak any more crap from me and i get a ban, So think twice before you think i insulted you in a manner enough to attract attention
And even then you resort to personal insulting but you don't realize it when you do so. You need to re-check your attitude problems dude.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right so what if you can insult people, any kid can. Or are you trying to flatter me with your ego?
I never begin to insult people on my own. There would be a few instances where I would have lost my temper but I do try to keep a check on my attitude in most of the cases.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Go ahead and insult me, i wont even bother to retort, you will just look like a moron trying to preach out his egos by insulting a 16 year old kid about SW related matter.
No! I will not insult you because I don't want to alienate you.

I treated you as a friend but you went out of the line yourself. I am not preaching my egos over here but do not forget that some people are much elder then you and they should be treated with some regard. I think that there is indeed a age checker system on this forum.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Did i ever say im a good debator? Nai is one of the best and greatest debators in KMC and he is an exar kun expert, im not. I only bother reading up on revan, sidious and vader because they are the characters i like
You have got the potential to become one. Never under-estimate yourself in this regard. Though I often give you hints.

One important rule for good debating is to be patient and listen to others with patience and respond nicely. In some cases, you won't like replies of others but you can still pretend to be nice. That would surely boost your image to a great level and even you will be surprised.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Firstly i wasnt even debating with you, Secondly i called out your ass because you made an assumption which have yet to be established anywhere in any sources but instead from someones opinion which has not been established canon yet
Your choice of words are not fair in case of debating. You need to tolerate views of others and when you disagree, please do so by responding them and stating your point of view but your choice of words should be good. In this manner, debates can remain civil and people will enjoy debating with you.

^ Fine by me, maybe you are right.

Anyways i will apologise then, im sorry

Originally posted by Manslayer
^ Fine by me, maybe you are right.

Anyways i will apologise then, im sorry
It is OK now!

I too apologize, if I overstepped my boundaries.

Though never under-estimate yourself in terms of intellect. Your replies to my replies in Darth Vader vs Darth Malak thread were very well though-out ones.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is OK now!

I too apologize, if I overstepped my boundaries.

Though never under-estimate yourself in terms of intellect. Your replies to my replies in Darth Vader vs Darth Malak thread were very well though-out ones. Yea hey thanks though. But yea seeing your an elder i should show you respect, anyways i apologise for the childish racket i been causing

Originally posted by Borbarad
Which would in this case be the equivalent of calling Kun "not very smart" which would be pretty stupid considering what Kun managed to do in a very short amount of time.
Revan also achieved far more then many Sith Lords within short amount of time. Some say that his achievements as a Sith Lord are second to only Sidious.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I didn't see Kun going WTF-brainless-berserk anywhere so once more I don't see where this does Revan any good in this fight.
I agree that Kun will not be fighting like a brainless-beserk but again it does depends upon who thinks smarter during the duel.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And Kun keeps discussing philosophical issues while tooling his own former master in lightsaber combat. Can it be that the guy is not entirely lacking intelligence ? That aside from force pimp-slapping everybody he confronted without a lightsaber rather easily.
Revan also decimated any kind of opposition he faced regardless of how difficult it was.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Which might work in certain situations. But being confronted with a guy who is an unright saber prodigy, fights with a style you don't know and a weapon you're unfamiliar with and this while being equipped with more force knowledge and force power than you are...well...it doesn't look as if "I'm using my brains" is the sufficient solution for that situation.
Revan was called a prodigy after his amazing success on the Star Forge. And Revan's combat style is also a modified one, as you can notice this when he gives a slight display of his saber mastery during his confrontation against the Jedi Strike Team. Though it is said that he was also the master of Jar Kai saber dueling style.

And I don't understand that how Kun has higher Force mastery and knowledge of Sith Lore then that of Revan. Kun's knowledge is mostly based on studies of Naga Sadow and some training from Freedon Nadd.

Revan's knowledge is based on following:

1) Studying large number of sith archives, secrets and sith teachings of various Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban including that of Ajunta, Ragnos, Sadow and Tulak.
2) Exploring and learning immense amount of Sith Lore that was abundent in large number of tombs in the Malachor V.

Originally posted by Borbarad
This is...useless.
Kun is much more focused on direct confrontation than Revan ever was. Yes. Revan might be smarter than Kun (actually we could even debate this going by what Kun has done) but Kun is by any means the better combatant. His force abilities are pretty well fitting for direct confrontation, add his amulets and the fact that the guy uses a unique melee weapon and style. Overpowering him with the force won't work (he resisted the most devastating light side attack there is) and outduelling him is also a very unlikely option. Outsmart him ? Possibly but also no easy task.
How kun was more focused on direct confrontation than Revan ever was is beyond me.

You must keep in mind the immense level of display of power, focus and control that Revan demonstrated during his long and epic clash with Sith Forces stationed on the Star Forge.

Over-powering Kun with the Force is not impossible because he is not invincible. And Sith Lords who are among the most powerful of all times can most certainly give him a decent challenge in this regard or even over-power him through the Force, if they have more knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And sorry...I don't see Revan winning this. Especially not because of "he will be using his brains".
Revan can defeat Kun, though the fight would be tough.

You forgot exar has his amulets which fire instantly, yes while i agree revan may be slightly better in the force than kun, he isnt going to defend against amulet blasts which can burn a hole through the massasi temple and dissintigrate any living organism with ease

Originally posted by Gideon
I have no predisposition or bias for either Exar Kun or Revan , but I would personally enjoy seeing this debated. Bearing in mind that I am, by no means, an Exar Kun expert -- I would say that this is a very tall claim, Nai. It's incontrovertible that Darth Revan was an extremely gifted tactition based on what he managed to achieve in such little time. Having played KotOR, though, I am better informed in regards to Revan than Kun.

But when has Kun proved his intellectual merit in comparison to Revan?

I wasn't talking about tactics but about being smart. What speaks for Kun in that department is his hilarious fast learning speed. Just think about it. In the matter of weeks he apparently mastered anything Sadow had left behind in terms of Sith magic at least and started to get some skill in the alchemy department. Not more than a year after his first confrontation with the Dark Side (so to say) and apparently only six months (and a few weeks adding the DLOTS timeframe) he was capable of:

- creating entirely new species
- mutate existing species to an untold degree
- create an almost unstoppable superweapon (the Dark Reaper)
- come up with extremely powerful and exotic force techniques
- come up with his own lightsaber style and a unique weapon

And so on and so forth. Notice...all learned and produced in a timeframe of half a year. Kun's study speed must be amazing if he could get all that stuff out of Sadow's knowledge and device new use for the things he learned (aside from coming up with own stuff like his double-bladed lightsaber). That certainly means that Kun did possess a pretty high intelligence. Of course Revan likely is the better tactician (although the way Kun lured the Jedi away from Ossus and devastated the place later had some nice style) but that alone doesn't make him the smartest guy in the universe.

1. Nobody was calling him the smartest guy in the universe, but I guess part of being a Kun fanboy is the fact that you have to be against other sith lords who might be as, or more powerful than Kun.
2, Prove that it took Kun "a matter of weeks", because as I recall, it took him a hell of a lot longer than that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan also achieved far more then many Sith Lords within short amount of time. Some say that his achievements as a Sith Lord are second to only Sidious.

Archievements can't be used to measure the personal skill in duels unless archieved through such fights. Sidious certainly was responsible for the death of more Jedi than any Sith before him. Yet he didn't kill all of them with his own hands.



They are both smart. Which was the entire point I had.



Kun demonstrated his own superiority by waltzing into the heart of the Republic, freeze serveral thousands of beings, use the Supreme Chancellor as living puppet and slay one of the most respected Jedi Masters in his time right in front of the frozen audience. Kun was by far the most powerful being of his era, completely uncontested at the hight of his power - the "darkest power in the Galaxy" as the narrator descripes him.



Look at what Kun does in the comics with his lightsaber(s). He's switching his main weapon hand rather often during duels and also rotates his blade rather often, resulting in a rather uncommon handling of his weapon(s). He also does that when dual wielding (obviously also Jar'kai use). The guy is quite a beast with his lightsaber, even at the very beginning of his career.




He had the complete knowledge of one of the three most powerful individuals from the "Golden Age of the Sith". A guy that studied the Dark Side for more than a century. I'd like to see what Revan had that was compareable.



I didn't see him studying much on Korriban actually. And especially not from the four Sith Lords you mention as we know what he found in their tombs.



It was a training facility run by a group of force users that was known to keep their most valueable secrets for themselves. What do you expect to find there. Let me try to find a comparison that fits: Do you think you can gain more knowledge by breaking into a scientific facility or by learning everything a single lead-scientist from that facility has to offer ?



Because he created an own deadly melee weapon with a corresponding and equally deadly style. Because he's seen to attack other force users directly with quite efficient force techniques and because he has his amulets which might dash out quite some damage if being used against a single opponent.



Really. One magic word: Game play. You really want to assume that only three out of a crew of eight would have helped Revan to fight his way through the Star Forge ? What Revan did on his own was defeating some droids, some Dark Jedi, Bastilla (who still was a Padawan) and Malak. Ok. Impressive.

Kun destroyed a Jedi that brought down Ancient Sith with a single force attack. He toyed one of the most respected Jedi Masters of the Jedi Order in his time in a duel. He tossed Jedi around as if they were ragdolls. He came up alchemical inventions that by far trump anything Revan could even have imagined ranging from temples that focus Dark Side energy over almost unstoppable superweapons like the Dark Reaper. And this is not even mentioning what he was capable of doing as a 4000 year old spirit (force choking ten force users at once almost killing them, toast another force user with force lightning, use a technique to rip the spirit of a force user out of his body).

Really...I don't see where Revan displayed knowledge or power that is compareable to that of Exar Kun.



Dude. I didn't say it's impossible. I did say it's extremely unlikely that a single person would be capable of doing it. Once more: Kun simply walked through a Sith Magic attack by Aleema Keto that was shown to instantly burn the skin / flesh of somebody hit by it down to the bone. And he also plain and simply resisted a technique used by a rather powerful Jedi Master who did bring down Ancient Sith Lords with the very same technique.



Yes. But I don't see why Revan should belong to that group as he did show nothing special in terms of lightsaber combat or force use. He is, of course, far above average in both departments - but compared to the likes of Sidious, Ragnos and Kun ? I don't think so.



How exactly ? Really.

a)
Kun has his amulets to instakill Revan. He has a load of Sith Magic attacks up his sleeve that Revan can most likely even defend himself against and this combined with an extraordinary amount of potential and a ridiculously high force defence. Revan does apparently know some of the techniques Kun also knows (and most likely can defend himself against) but Kun seems to have a far broader array of force powers useable in "direct action" against other force users.

Conclusion: Could would most likely win a force fight.

b)
In lightsaber combat we have a relative unknown (although being mentioned as prodigy) in Revan. Kun is called the "most formidable student I ever had" by a 600 year old Jedi Master who seems to have trained quite a lot of people. His movements, as depicted in the comics, seem to imply a very unconventional (and thereby night unpredictable) fighting style - even when Kun used his old weapons instead of his new style and double blade which made him even more deadly in melee combat than he was before.

That aside from wearing armor (cortosis weave as far as I recall, granting him some extra protection against lightsabers), be quite muscle packed in terms of physical strength and he seems to be quite fast looking a the fact he can draw his lightsaber, ignite it and kill two poeple with it aiming guns at him - before one of the guy is able to pull his trigger.

Conclusion: I'm quite certain that Kun would win more often than not in lightsaber combat.

Of course...Revan could possibly defeat Kun. But I don't see that happening under "normal" circumstances. Which was my entire point here. Kun's simply too good with a saber and too powerful when it comes down to a force contest. This aside from his "gimmicks" in the shape of two Sith Amulets.

Very very close, they were both very powerful Sith Lords. Revan was wiser, i mean the strategies that he used to win the mandalorian wars and the jedi civil wars were brilliant, especily the conversions of the jedi and the sith assasin stuff. Kun managed to convert many jedi too but not as efficiantly as Revan did.

Quit bumping old threads you moron

Originally posted by darthsith19
Kun wins. He is a lightsaber prodigy. He owned the two carth Jedi, true they are not exceptional but he still beat them both in no time, and he owned Vodo in his prime and stalemated Ulic. Revan's saber skills are pretty much unknown.

And it means nothing that Revan took on a Jedi strike team with 6 masters and 6 apprentices. I guess I'll take your word for it...

Originally posted by Quark_666
And it means nothing that Revan took on a Jedi strike team with 6 masters and 6 apprentices. I guess I'll take your word for it... What crap? Firstly there was only 3-4 people in that strike team, and revan has yet to engage them in battle.

Wb btw nebaris