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3 way battle

Round 1: Sabers only

Round 2: All out fight

Ben or Kyle.

Can't decide which, tbh.

Mara probably sweeps.

mmm

Good fight, tbh. Setting?

Neutral ground

Ben estahuh

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Ben estahuh

It's not like you aren't a bias piece of shit, or anything.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Ben estahuh

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
It's not like you aren't a bias piece of shit, or anything.

Fixed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
mmm

Good fight, tbh.

Mara, probably.

Might back Mara here too. Not sure if Obi-Wan's offensively capable of beating either.

Potentally blitzing Vader > anything those NJO fuggs have done.

Any Jedi can blitz another if they're distracted, lol. Which is why Vader tried to maintain his focus, because he reckoned that Obi-Wan might blitz him if he got distracted. TPM Obi-Wan blitzed Maul the same way, lol.

Hardly the same way. Vader couldn't order the stormtroopers to stand down, which only requires him to open his mouth.

Well, it was Vader's fear, which isn't exactly unreasoned given what happened on Mustafar. The fact that sources have stated that Obi-Wan couldn't make any offensive headway and the fact that your own source (Death Star) mentions that Vader blocked most of Obi-Wan's blows effortlessly, IIRC.

In both sources Kenobi mounted offense several times throughout the duel, and while they weren't effective neither would be Mara's. Vader a year before ANH could effortlessly defend a Jar'Kai Juyo user's strikes who can disintegrate frigates.

The notion that Kenobi has shit offense is retarded. He's a master of Ataru, and likely superior than Qui-Gon who was one of the best duelist in the history of the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
In both sources Kenobi mounted offense several times throughout the duel, and while they weren't effective neither would be Mara's. Vader a year before ANH could effortlessly defend a Jar'Kai Juyo user's strikes who can disintegrate frigates.

Obi-Wan only mounted one successful offense when Vader thought he had him. Everything else was woefully inadequate.

As for the second part - you mean Starkiller? He made far more headway against Vader than Ben did.



Obi-Wan in his prime doesn't have shit offense (heck, it's not "shit" even as an old man), but old Ben Kenobi isn't beating Mara/Kyle etc. by virtue of his offensive skills.

He's never once drawn upon Ataru in ANH and all supplementary sources relating to his duel with Vader only mention his Soresu. Moreover, sources mention that he had physically declined since RotS and grew out of practice, which probably explains why using Ataru wouldn't be the most sensible thing to do.

Qui-Gon doesn't have anything on Mara or Kyle. Ben's superiority over him doesn't put him over either.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
In both sources Kenobi mounted offense several times throughout the duel, and while they weren't effective neither would be Mara's. Vader a year before ANH could effortlessly defend a Jar'Kai Juyo user's strikes who can disintegrate frigates.

The notion that Kenobi has shit offense is retarded. He's a master of Ataru, and likely superior than Qui-Gon who was one of the best duelist in the history of the Jedi Order.

He's exceeded TPM Qui-Gon that's for sure. But Jinn's offence is better than Kenobi's :/
Obi's offence is certainly not shit lmao

Not saying it's shit at all - just that saying that his brief and circumstantial success against Vader through offense doesn't constitute a sustained means of pressing either Mara or Kyle and then bringing them down. Ben's offense isn't enough to break their defense. Now, it's the same the other way around, but I have faith that Mara (maybe even Kyle) has the stamina necessary to wear Kenobi down.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Obi-Wan only mounted one successful offense when Vader thought he had him. Everything else was woefully inadequate.

As for the second part - you mean Starkiller? He made far more headway against Vader than Ben did.

Starkiller only could've pierced Vader's guard once, and even then only following up a lightning blast to Vader's side.

This shows how much Vader shat all over him:

Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. Determined to prove him wrong, Starkiller didn't waste time announcing his intentions. He just lunged. Only at the very last moment did Vader raise his blade to block the blow, and even then the move seemed almost casual, disinterested. Starkiller struck again, with both lightsabers. Vader blocked one blade and used telekinesis to throw the other off target. The platform buckled and twisted, sending Starkiller flying.
--The Force Unleashed II

A disinterested, casual Vader effortlessly parried Starkiller's strikes yet he couldn't even warn off stormtroopers against Ben mmm



Originally posted by SunRazer
Obi-Wan in his prime doesn't have shit offense (heck, it's not "shit" even as an old man), but old Ben Kenobi isn't beating Mara/Kyle etc. by virtue of his offensive skills.

No but if you also pair his offensive skills with the best Soresu in history he can beat them. His Soresu also gives him an edge in a 3 way fight.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He's never once drawn upon Ataru in ANH and all supplementary sources relating to his duel with Vader only mention his Soresu. Moreover, sources mention that he had physically declined since RotS and grew out of practice, which probably explains why using Ataru wouldn't be the most sensible thing to do.

Qui-Gon doesn't have anything on Mara or Kyle. Ben's superiority over him doesn't put him over either.

Yes, and the same sources say that Vader is a shadow of his former self, haven't dueled anyone in years etc etc.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Starkiller only could've pierced Vader's guard once, and even then only following up a lightning blast to Vader's side.

This shows how much Vader shat all over him:

Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. Determined to prove him wrong, Starkiller didn't waste time announcing his intentions. He just lunged. Only at the very last moment did Vader raise his blade to block the blow, and even then the move seemed almost casual, disinterested. Starkiller struck again, with both lightsabers. Vader blocked one blade and used telekinesis to throw the other off target. The platform buckled and twisted, sending Starkiller flying.
--The Force Unleashed II

A disinterested, casual Vader effortlessly parried Starkiller's strikes yet he couldn't even warn off stormtroopers against Ben

The move "seemed" that way - ie, SK's perspective, and it was "almost" casual. Besides, that's only two strikes. Vader blocks more from Ben in Death Star just as easily, if not moreso - the general message there is that apart from Vader almost letting down his guard at one point, Ben's attacks were absolutely pitiful. He was being driven back the whole time bar that one offensive reprieve when Vader got overconfident.

Vader being scared of what happened on Mustafar doesn't justify Ben winning here, lol. He just knew that in spite of greater skill, he could still lose if he let down his guard at any point like he did on Mustafar, that's all.



A three-way fight would go poorly for him. He can hold off their attacks, sure, but in that scenario, he absolutely wouldn't be able to make any offensive headway (I do think Kyle + Mara > ANH Vader, definitely) and he would certainly tire in due time - before he could afford to counter anything. Unless, of course, Kyle and Mara primarily focused on each other, but I can't see that happening.



I'm referring to Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force (2010), not Fightsaber, but that supports my point too.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The move "seemed" that way - ie, SK's perspective, and it was "almost" casual. Besides, that's only two strikes. Vader blocks more from Ben in Death Star just as easily, if not moreso - the general message there is that apart from Vader almost letting down his guard at one point, Ben's attacks were absolutely pitiful. He was being driven back the whole time bar that one offensive reprieve when Vader got overconfident.

Vader being scared of what happened on Mustafar doesn't justify Ben winning here, lol. He just knew that in spite of greater skill, he could still lose if he let down his guard at any point like he did on Mustafar, that's all.

Vader was described as blocking 1 strike easily from Ben and you label his offense (agaisnt Vader) pitiful, yet you don't do the same with Starkiller. Okay.

Just for reference here are all the times Kenobi were on the offensive:

Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord.

They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar.
--A New Hope

"Only a master of evil, Darth." With that, Obi-Wan stepped in and cut.

Vader blocked the attack easily. Obi-Wan attacked again, and again, Vader blocked each strike.
--Death Star

Obi-Wan lunged again, attacking, but Vader was ready. Their sabers clashed, sparks spewed, the stink of ozone wafted over them, but Vader stood his ground. The blades slid along each other's length, then stopped, bound together in the magnetic handle guards, the men face-to-face.
--Death Star

Another exchange - four, five, six attacks and blocks - and Vader knew the old man was weakening. The Force might be strong in Obi-Wan, but the dark side was stronger in Vader. It let him anticipate his adversary's strikes and counter them almost before they began.
--Death Star

But just as he was ready to deliver the final strike, Obi-Wan managed a fast series of attacks, and Vader had to move quickly to avoid the strikes. Even as old and weak as Obi-Wan was, his technique was accomplished enough that a foolish move on Vader's part could still be fatal.
--Death Star

There's also this web comic where Kenobi gains ground:
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11124/111243646/5131988-kvdv.png

Based on what would Kyle and Mara be significantly better than that?

Originally posted by SunRazer
A three-way fight would go poorly for him. He can hold off their attacks, sure, but in that scenario, he absolutely wouldn't be able to make any offensive headway (I do think Kyle + Mara > ANH Vader, definitely) and he would certainly tire in due time - before he could afford to counter anything. Unless, of course, Kyle and Mara primarily focused on each other, but I can't see that happening.

Well it's a 3 way fight not 2vs1. As the smartest duelist here Ben can manipulate the engagement to his own ends.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm referring to Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force (2010), not Fightsaber, but that supports my point too.

Quote?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Vader was described as blocking 1 strike easily from Ben and you label his offense (agaisnt Vader) pitiful, yet you don't do the same with Starkiller. Okay.

Obviously Starkiller's attack there was pitiful. But I'm not debating him here - and if I was, I'd have him lose as well.



Of the quotes you listed, only the last quote was the one I'm referring to - successful offensive. The rest were him attacking and failing miserably.

The comic is depicting Ben and Vader fighting on equal ground, right? At first, I thought Ben was using some sort of Ataru to leap over Vader. Doesn't seem that way on reconsideration.

Significantly better than what? I never used those words.



How so? There's only so much he can court when he's being ganged up on (since Mara and Kyle know each other).



Here:

Originally posted by SunRazer
Significantly better than what? I never used those words.

Well not significantly, but in your first post you said you doubt Kenobi has the offense to beat either, so you think the other 2 has the offense. Why do you think Kyle and Mara's offense would be any more successful against Vader?

Originally posted by SunRazer
How so? There's only so much he can court when he's being ganged up on (since Mara and Kyle know each other).

Well I assumed they can't team up, otherwise this wouldn't be a 3way fight, but a 2vs1 then 1vs1.

If they do team up then yeah I dount Ben could win, but that defeats the purpose of making this thread a 3way fight and could've been just Mara vs Kyle.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well not significantly, but in your first post you said you doubt Kenobi has the offense to beat either, so you think the other 2 has the offense. Why do you think Kyle and Mara's offense would be any more successful against Vader?

I also said that Ben's defense would hold them off as well, only that they could outlast him.



I'm going off a morals on approach. It's the most likely alliance. Without it, this fight is pretty unpredictable and it's hard to draw a winner.

Yeah, but with an alliance it's basically Kyle vs Mara thread, not Kyle vs Ben vs Mara.

I'd probably still support Mara. Her stamina seems the best here and she's likely just as skilled as Ben and more powerful. If she comes out of the initial brawl, she'll be the best-suited for the remaining one-versus-one. Otherwise, I don't know who wins.

In what book Mara fights Caedus?

Sacrifice, and I'm not basing my opinion off that fight.