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This is sabers only fight

Setting: Naboo plains

Starting distance: 30 feet

Who wins?

Revans team annihilates these fools.

What are Revan's saber feats that suggest that?

Originally posted by Stigma
What are Revan's saber feats that suggest that?

Lol, you think they will even engage in proper Light saber combat.
Anyway, i'm under the philosophy of Physic amplification via force, trumps no matter how skilled you are with the blade, and Revan/Exar Kun absolutely stomp in this area.

WTF This is sabers only fight .... As specified above

Ok. So what are Revan's feats with a saber? Any showings of note? I am just curious...

Originally posted by Stigma
WTF This is sabers only fight .... As specified above

Ok. So what are Revan's feats with a saber? Any showings of note? I am just curious...

Feats, I already explained. Physical amplification via force augmentation, unless you are suggesting they don't have that.
then probably team 2.

Kas'im had the technique advantage on Bane on just about every level, but Bane's power made that irrelevant.

So yeah Kun's team rvpes.

@Haschwalth

No. I am sceptical that it is so easy. In fact, there is a number of logical problems with that stance:

1. Why it is not a two-way street?

Example:
A Force user with greater amplification is a better duelist. A duelist who is great must have better amplification. No? This formula does not work in numerous instances.

2. If we were to assume a more powerful Force user is automatically a great duelist, than UnuThul as a saber duelist is far above the likes of Revan going by the showings of power.

3. If the above argument you mentioned about saber prowess and Force augmentation is true, why it does not work with other Force related abilities?

Example: Vader's Force connection should makes him a master at TP. Kyp Durron's Force augmentation means he can do a Force drain all of a sudden etc.

We do not assume that because it contradicts logic and what we have seen from these characters.



To sum it up, I feel that the argument that can be dubbed "augmentation's direct relation to saber prowess" has been twisted a bit to hide the clear shortcomings of some characters. The premise overlooks that while power gives you an advantage, training and (perfect) practice hone skills.

Team 1 for sure.

Originally posted by Stigma
@Haschwalth

No. I am sceptical that it is so easy. In fact, there is a number of logical problems with that stance:

1. Why it is not a two-way street?

Example:
A Force user with greater amplification is a better duelist. A duelist who is great must have better amplification. No? This formula does not work in numerous instances.

2. If we were to assume a more powerful Force user is automatically a great duelist, than UnuThul as a saber duelist is far above the likes of Revan going by the showings of power.

3. If the above argument you mentioned about saber prowess and Force augmentation is true, why it does not work with other Force related abilities?

Example: Vader's Force connection should makes him a master at TP. Kyp Durron's Force augmentation means he can do a Force drain all of a sudden etc.

We do not assume that because it contradicts logic and what we have seen from these characters.


To sum it up, I feel that the argument that can be dubbed "augmentation's direct relation to saber prowess" has been twisted a bit to hide the clear shortcomings of some characters. The premise overlooks that while power gives you an advantage, training and (perfect) practice hone skills.

Revan heavily relied on physical amplification though, aka fighting on DS nexus's as potent as the SF/Korriban, through hundreds of Sith etc. throughout all his fights he has resorted to using a lightsaber with his force abilties. He was strong enough, to take on Wrath/HoT, at the same time with his light saber while simultaneously defending/attacking Nox/etc. He is clearly a Master in it.
Combined with his Raw force, he easily, could take on any of them.

Kun's mere physical strength could produce lightsabre strike sounds which could be heard from kilometers away.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Revan heavily relied on physical amplification though, aka fighting on DS nexus's as potent as the SF/Korriban, through hundreds of Sith etc. throughout all his fights he has resorted to using a lightsaber with his force abilties. He was strong enough, to take on Wrath/HoT, at the same time with his light saber while simultaneously defending/attacking Nox/etc. He is clearly a Master in it.
Combined with his Raw force, he easily, could take on any of them.
Right. But I hope you do realize that this does not undermine my previous points. You merely expand on the topic, which is fine in itself.

To make it clear. Revan is a master of saber combat, sure. But to what degree?

To give another example: Going by showings of power Starkiller could be argued to eclipse Yoda's showings. So he is a better duelist, right?

Originally posted by Stigma
Right. But I hope you do realize that this does not undermine my previous points. You merely expand on the topic, which is fine in itself.

To make it clear. Revan is a master of saber combat, sure. But to what degree?

To give another example; Going by showings of power Starkiller could be argued to eclipse Yoda's showings. So he is a better duelist, right?

No because it goes hand in hand.

Yoda was a master of physical amplification, and was extremely powerful in the force. Meaning he Will beat Galen every time. And Yoda disarming Sidious or contending with him is a dueling feat far beyond what galen has done.

I'm saying anyone, who has shown to be proficent with Physical amplification/reliant on it, with greater the force. will always trump someone with lesser force ability.

Anakin is a prime example of this, on the Invisible hand. when he tapped into his hate he completely outplayed Dooku. In which he was having troubles before hand.

Originally posted by Stigma
Right. But I hope you do realize that this does not undermine my previous points. You merely expand on the topic, which is fine in itself.

To make it clear. Revan is a master of saber combat, sure. But to what degree?

To give another example: Going by showings of power Starkiller could be argued to eclipse Yoda's showings. So he is a better duelist, right?
Starkiller's power was ''no match'' for the Emperor's. I think TFU Sidious is definitely above Yoda as a Force wielder, but to that agree? Not to appeal to incredulity, but probably not. Feat-only reasoning is hardly be-all and end-all.

I agree that Force power affects lightsaber combat by principle, but the extent is arguable and perhaps even contextual. I've considered writing a more comprehensive note on it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Hasch is on point.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
No because it goes hand in hand.

Yoda was a master of physical amplification, and was extremely powerful the force.


Right. Galen was a master of physical amplification and was extremely powerful in the force, was he not? He may be agued to have better Force feats than Yoda too. So....

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Meaning he Will beat Galen every time. And Yoda disarming Sidious or contending with him is a dueling feat far beyond what galen has done.
So... feats. You just made my case

Originally posted by Haschwalth
I'm saying anyone, who has shown to be proficent with Physical amplification/reliant on it, with greater the force. will always trump someone with lesser force ability. I understand your position. I just think it's wrong in its basis. Not that I want to drag this topic, really. I am aware that my criticisms may not convince you.

Originally posted by Farticus_Rex
Starkiller's power was ''no match'' for the Emperor's. I think TFU Sidious is definitely above Yoda as a Force wielder, but to that agree? Not to appeal to incredulity, but probably not. Feat-only reasoning is hardly be-all and end-all.
It helps a lot, though.

Originally posted by Farticus_Rex
I agree that Force power affects lightsaber combat by principle, but the extent is arguable and perhaps even contextual. I've considered writing a more comprehensive note on it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I can see that, yeah.

Originally posted by Stigma
It helps a lot, though.


I can see that, yeah.

Originally posted by Stigma
Right. Galen was a master of physical amplification and was extremely powerful in the force, was he not? He may be agued to have better Force feats than Yoda too. So....


So... feats. You just made my case

I understand your postion. I just think it's wrong in its basis. Not that I want to drag this topic, really. I am aware that my criticisms may not convince you.

So you pretty much agree, It's like with Valkorian, he would get schooled with a light saber, by say Revan, but his force abilities are what gives him the edge in battle.

So

1.the user must have shown proficiency in Physical amplification/using a lightsaber, in consistence cases.

2.The user Must have a Greater raw power, with the force. Than his opponent.

for him to defeat, the say more skilled user.

Originally posted by Farticus_Rex
Starkiller's power was ''no match'' for the Emperor's. I think TFU Sidious is definitely above Yoda as a Force wielder, but to that agree? Not to appeal to incredulity, but probably not. Feat-only reasoning is hardly be-all and end-all.

I agree that Force power affects lightsaber combat by principle, but the extent is arguable and perhaps even contextual. I've considered writing a more comprehensive note on it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

The gap between Sidious and Yoda, was pretty small force wise tbh, at the time of that duel.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
So you pretty much agree, It's like with Valkorian, he would get schooled with a light saber, by say Revan, but his force abilities are what gives him the edge in battle.


Right.... But we are talking about saber only fights. All-out is a different matter all-together.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1.the user must have shown proficiency in Physical amplification/using a lightsaber, in consistence cases.

2.The user Must have a Greater raw power, with the force. Than his opponent.

for him to defeat, the say more skilled user.
Not really, no. Not in the saber-only fight. All-out is a different matter as I mentioned.