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This is the DOS version of Supes which means that his only feats that are valid are feats from and before the DOS arc.


WW has her standard equipment.

Who takes it?

Wonder Woman in a crushing Victory. Not even close.

This should be interesting after the Sentry and Doomsday thread

Originally posted by Priest
This should be interesting after the Sentry and Doomsday thread
I thought so .

Sentry pretty much Beats DOS Superman and Doomsday as well.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Sentry pretty much Beats DOS Superman and Doomsday as well.
That's what I said. People just don't realize that the Supes that DD fought in the DOS saga wasn't really all that powerful by todays standards.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's what I said. People just don't realize that the Supes that DD fought in the DOS saga wasn't really all that powerful by todays standards.

Um, Byre depowered Superman alot. And by doing so, everyone in DC got depowered. Alot of the low feats from that era have to be taken with a grain of salt for villians and Heroes becuz of that Era. Anyway, Sentry could sneak a few wins in against Even Current Doomsday or Superman. So he for sure as hell would beat DOS doomsday.

Hey nvr you're a DC fan so maybe you know. I've been trying to find out what DOS Supes major strength/durability/speed feats were at that point, do you have any info in that regard?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey nvr you're a DC fan so maybe you know. I've been trying to find out what DOS Supes major strength/durability/speed feats were at that point, do you have any info in that regard? During his exile he was flying around the universe, so I assume we can put faster than light speeds in there. Unless of course, you want to believe he was flying between galaxies at the speed of sound. In which case, he would still be on the way to warworld even now.

Originally posted by Juntai
During his exile he was flying around the universe, so I assume we can put faster than light speeds in there. Unless of course, you want to believe he was flying between galaxies at the speed of sound. In which case, he would still be on the way to warworld even now.
batdude told me he wasn't capable of FTL speeds back then . And I thought he couldn't breath in space back then?

Originally posted by darthgoober
batdude told me he wasn't capable of FTL speeds back then . And I thought he couldn't breath in space back then? You're right, he was flying between galaxies with a gas mask at mach 1.

Originally posted by Juntai
You're right, he was flying between galaxies with a gas mask at mach 1 after exiling himself from Earth.
Hey I'm just asking for clarification purposes. I know he was taught to breath in space by Mongul a while after the DOS saga, and batdude told me in a discussion we were having that Supes was incapable of flight back then(I was under the impression that Supes WAS capable of it at the time). If I had any concrete info I wouldn't have asked nvr. Anyway, what issue/are did the events you're talking about take place?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I'm just asking for clarification purposes. I know he was taught to breath in space by Mongul a while after the DOS saga, and batdude told me in a discussion we were having that Supes was incapable of flight back then(I was under the impression that Supes WAS capable of it at the time). If I had any concrete info I wouldn't have asked nvr. Anyway, what issue/are did the events you're talking about take place? Actually, he did wear a gas mask. But the idea of flying around through space typically requires faster than light travel.

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually, he did wear a gas mask. But the idea of flying around through space typically requires faster than light travel.
That makes sense, but what issue/arc is it from?

Originally posted by darthgoober
That makes sense, but what issue/arc is it from? His exile?

SUPERMAN: EXILE is a worthwhile read for any kind of Superman fan. Both pre- and post-Crisis aficionados will find something to like in this story. And hey, it occurs prior to Superman's exaggerated death, so that's a plus either way you look at it. Collected here are SUPERMAN (second series) #28-30, #32-33, ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #451-456, ACTION COMICS ANNUAL #2, and ACTION COMICS #643 (all from 1988-89)... a good chunk of reading that will keep you busy. Almost 300 pages for only fifteen bucks is an anomaly in today's overpriced trade paperback market. The creators list consists of writers George Perez, Dan Jurgens, and Jerry Ordway, and artists Curt Swan, Mike Mignola, Kerry Gammill, and others.

Originally posted by Juntai
His exile?

SUPERMAN: EXILE is a worthwhile read for any kind of Superman fan. Both pre- and post-Crisis aficionados will find something to like in this story. And hey, it occurs prior to Superman's exaggerated death, so that's a plus either way you look at it. Collected here are SUPERMAN (second series) #28-30, #32-33, ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #451-456, ACTION COMICS ANNUAL #2, and ACTION COMICS #643 (all from 1988-89)... a good chunk of reading that will keep you busy. Almost 300 pages for only fifteen bucks is an anomaly in today's overpriced trade paperback market. The creators list consists of writers George Perez, Dan Jurgens, and Jerry Ordway, and artists Curt Swan, Mike Mignola, Kerry Gammill, and others.
Cool, I'll check it out.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool, I'll check it out. http://supermandatabase.com/modules/Comics/exile.pdf
preview

Ok Jun, I just started looking at ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN 451, and(at least for THAT issue) he was using a teleportation belt to jump abound in space...

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/8168/adventuresofsuperman451xv4.th.jpg

Keep in mind I JUST started looking, so there may be an instance of FTL travel for him in another book since I've only seen the one. I'll post any instances I find though since I'll have all the necessary issue's soon.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I'm just asking for clarification purposes. I know he was taught to breath in space by Mongul a while after the DOS saga, and batdude told me in a discussion we were having that Supes was incapable of flight back then(I was under the impression that Supes WAS capable of it at the time). If I had any concrete info I wouldn't have asked nvr. Anyway, what issue/are did the events you're talking about take place?



Yeah, I never said he couldn't fly during Byrne's arc. I was more than likely referring to his 1938 appearance.

Hell, Byrne's Superman was still doing extremely impressive stuff. Surviving being thrown into a red sun TWICE, lifting a mountain that was said to be able to crush Metropolis, smashing an asteroid that could have destroyed Earth, flying between galaxies, etc.

He wasn't exactly a pussy back then.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok Jun, I just started looking at ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN 451, and(at least for THAT issue) he was using a teleportation belt to jump abound in space...

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/8168/adventuresofsuperman451xv4.th.jpg

Keep in mind I JUST started looking, so there may be an instance of FTL travel for him in another book since I've only seen the one. I'll post any instances I find though since I'll have all the necessary issue's soon. There should be something, though its been a long time since I read the issues.

Also, why did you start with that issue, rather than the first issues listed?


I'll try to think of other arcs he did still like that.

Originally posted by batdude123


Yeah, I never said he couldn't fly during Byrne's arc. I was more than likely referring to his 1938 appearance.

Hell, Byrne's Superman was still doing extremely impressive stuff. Surviving being thrown into a red sun TWICE, lifting a mountain that was said to be able to crush Metropolis, smashing an asteroid that could have destroyed Earth, flying between galaxies, etc.

He wasn't exactly a pussy back then.

There ya go.

Originally posted by batdude123


Yeah, I never said he couldn't fly during Byrne's arc. I was more than likely referring to his 1938 appearance.

Hell, Byrne's Superman was still doing extremely impressive stuff. Surviving being thrown into a red sun TWICE, lifting a mountain that was said to be able to crush Metropolis, smashing an asteroid that could have destroyed Earth, flying between galaxies, etc.

He wasn't exactly a pussy back then.
I didn't say that you said he couldn't fly, I said you said he couldn't hit lightspeed. Remember? I pointed out that Supes and DD should have reached Metropolis in about a second if DD was really as fast as Supes and they were moving lightspeed. Then you said that it was pretty much Byrne's Supes and he was way powered down back then. Then I said something to the effect of "But wasn't he still capable of hitting lightspeed?", and you said no.

Originally posted by Juntai
There should be something, though its been a long time since I read the issues.

Also, why did you start with that issue, rather than the first issues listed?


I'll try to think of other arcs he did still like that.
I started with that issue because I already have all those Aventures of Supes comics avalible. I'll have the rest within a day or two.

Originally posted by Juntai
he was flying between galaxies with a gas mask at mach 1.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't say that you said he couldn't fly, I said you said he couldn't hit lightspeed. Remember? I pointed out that Supes and DD should have reached Metropolis in about a second if DD was really as fast as Supes and they were moving lightspeed. Then you said that it was pretty much Byrne's Supes and he was way powered down back then. Then I said something to the effect of "But wasn't he still capable of hitting lightspeed?", and you said no.

Originally posted by darthgoober
and batdude told me in a discussion we were having that Supes was incapable of flight back then(I was under the impression that Supes WAS capable of it at the time)

What issue did Byrne Supes fly between galaxies?

Originally posted by Juntai
During his exile he was flying around the universe, so I assume we can put faster than light speeds in there. Unless of course, you want to believe he was flying between galaxies at the speed of sound. In which case, he would still be on the way to warworld even now.
I recall Namor doing that.

Originally posted by batdude123

Oh shit bats, my bad. I must have meant to say something like lightspeed flight or something and spaced off. Alright....everyone scratch my statement about what bats said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh shit bats, my bad. I must have meant to say something like lightspeed flight or something and spaced off. Alright....everyone scratch my statement about what bats said.

However, other than a few ambiguous showings of Superman flying around in space, there's really no references to him being able to hit light speed.

Then again, there is the showing where he stated he could see lightning bolts in slow motion, and used his speed to intercept one.

Originally posted by batdude123
However, other than a few ambiguous showings of Superman flying around in space, there's really no references to him being able to hit light speed.

Then again, there is the showing where he stated he could see lightning bolts in slow motion, and used his speed to intercept one. Yah a lot of it was ambiguous.

Ok now that we have all that worked out, who do you guys think take this fight?

superman

I might get some flack about this, but I haven't really seen Diana do anything more impressive than what Byrne's Superman did.

I'll say the "weak Superman" 6-7/10.

superman is just to tough for wonderwoman. i see superman just beating her head in 8 out of ten times. any way u look at it superman wins solid majority.

Originally posted by batdude123
I might get some flack about this, but I haven't really seen Diana do anything more impressive than what Byrne's Superman did.

I'll say the "weak Superman" 6-7/10.
But hasn't she withstood CURRENT Supes punches fairly well? How is Byrne's Supes going to put her down if current Supes has a hard time doing it?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But hasn't she withstood CURRENT Supes punches fairly well? How is Byrne's Supes going to put her down if current Supes has a hard time doing it? Depends. In some instances, they're peers, in others, he's far beyond her.


If you're counting Sacrifice, yeah, she has, but she blacked out after his first punch, only to wake up from the heat of re-entry into Earths atmosphere. Then they wen't blow for blow for a bit.. Lets say he didn't hit her towards Earth, she would have just been drifting through space unconscious. A KO is a win anyways on the forum.

However, this isn't the most realistic portrayal of the two given some of their other showings...
Superman in his right mind is a monster. Unlike the mind controlled version just discussed.


Take for example, the Superman/Batman: Supergirl arc. In the arc, Wonder Woman and Barda get taken down by henchmen who Darkseid could slap down with wide-arc pimp hand, while Superman downs the big man himself. Which is after he was wearing kryptonite.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But hasn't she withstood CURRENT Supes punches fairly well? How is Byrne's Supes going to put her down if current Supes has a hard time doing it?

Other than in the Sacrifice arc, she's been pwned without much trouble at all. Even then, she needed to carry the kryptonite ring with her. Also, it was mentioned in the Strange Attractors arc that she knew he was probably going to kill her if she didn't kill Max Lord to snap him out of it. Yes, it was a pretty good showing for her, but it's one amongst many.

When they faced off in the Fortress of Solitude, he was pimpsmacking her around like nothing.

She's openly admitted she cannot beat Superman in a straight up confrontation.

Originally posted by batdude123
Other than in the Sacrifice arc, she's been pwned without much trouble at all. Even then, she needed to carry the kryptonite ring with her. Also, it was mentioned in the Strange Attractors arc that she knew he was probably going to kill her if she didn't kill Max Lord to snap him out of it. Yes, it was a pretty good showing for her, but it's one amongst many.

When they faced off in the Fortress of Solitude, he was pimpsmacking her around like nothing.

She's openly admitted she cannot beat Superman in a straight up confrontation.

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends. In some instances, they're peers, in others, he's far beyond her.


If you're counting Sacrifice, yeah, she has, but she blacked out after his first punch, only to wake up from the heat of re-entry into Earths atmosphere. Then they wen't blow for blow for a bit.. Lets say he didn't hit her towards Earth, she would have just been drifting through space unconscious. A KO is a win anyways on the forum.

However, this isn't the most realistic portrayal of the two given some of their other showings...
Superman in his right mind is a monster. Unlike the mind controlled version just discussed.


Take for example, the Superman/Batman: Supergirl arc. In the arc, Wonder Woman and Barda get taken down by henchmen who Darkseid could slap down with wide-arc pimp hand, while Superman downs the big man himself. Which is after he was wearing kryptonite.



And don't forget the instance in Superman/Batman when he straight up snapped her neck in two.

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends. In some instances, they're peers, in others, he's far beyond her.


If you're counting Sacrifice, yeah, she has, but she blacked out after his first punch, only to wake up from the heat of re-entry into Earths atmosphere. Then they wen't blow for blow for a bit.. Lets say he didn't hit her towards Earth, she would have just been drifting through space unconscious. A KO is a win anyways on the forum.

However, this isn't the most realistic portrayal of the two given some of their other showings...
Superman in his right mind is a monster. Unlike the mind controlled version just discussed.


Take for example, the Superman/Batman: Supergirl arc. In the arc, Wonder Woman and Barda get taken down by henchmen who Darkseid could slap down with wide-arc pimp hand, while Superman downs the big man himself. Which is after he was wearing kryptonite.
Oh I know current Supes should deliver a beatdown on WW given the proper motivation. But even though Supes is normally portrayed as being stronger by a fair amount, but on average it seems you'd have to credit her with being able to withstand a few of his best shots. And if she can whether THAT level of punishment, it seems the Byrn's would have find it EXTREMELY difficult to put her down. Especially since he doesn't have the speed advantage his current incarnation possesses, and she's FAR more skilled.

Originally posted by darthgoober
have to credit her with being able to withstand a few of his best shots. .

Originally posted by Juntai

So he knocked her out, but then when she woke up they fought toe to toe?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So he knocked her out, but then when she woke up they fought toe to toe? She woke up from the heat of re-entry into the atmosphere. Had he hit her in a different direction, that wouldn't have happened, would it?
One punch, put her unconscious

Originally posted by Juntai
She woke up from the heat of re-entry into the atmosphere. Had he hit her in a different direction, that wouldn't have happened, would it?
One punch, put her unconscious
But then they fought toe to toe?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But then they fought toe to toe? .. Is a KO a win on this forum?
Did he knock her unconscious?
Did a plot device wake her up so the battle could continue?

Originally posted by Juntai
She woke up from the heat of re-entry into the atmosphere. Had he hit her in a different direction, that wouldn't have happened, would it?
One punch, put her unconscious

Originally posted by Juntai
.. Is a KO a win on this forum?
Did he knock her unconscious?
Did a plot device wake her up so the battle could continue?
I'm not saying that he didn't win the INITIAL fight. I'm just asking if they then fought toe to toe in round 2?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not saying that he didn't win the INITIAL fight. I'm just asking if they then fought toe to toe in round 2? Sort of. When he came back down to Earth after she crashed, he went to the site and couldn't find her , she leaped up and clapped his ears with bracelets. She was trying to do tricky tactics and stuff, while in brute force, he was still kinda kicking her around like a doll.

Originally posted by Juntai
Sort of. When he came back down to Earth after she crashed, he went to the site and couldn't find her , she leaped up and clapped his ears with bracelets. She was trying to do tricky tactics and stuff, while in brute force, he was still kinda kicking her around like a doll.
So she was using superior tactics due to his advantage in strength, but she WAS still getting up from his "kicking her around like a dog"?

Yeah, that was some ass writing. He couldn't even notice where she was when she was standing RIGHT behind him not a foot away?

The man can hear the tiniest of frequencies from space, but he can't hear Diana right behind him? Wtf?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So she was using superior tactics due to his advantage in strength, but she WAS still getting up from his "kicking her around like a dog"? Yep. If you call bad writing as superior tactics.

However, as I said before.. she was already knocked unconscious at the beginning of the fight when he landed a direct hit. A KO is a win.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, that was some ass writing. He couldn't even notice where she was when she was standing RIGHT behind him not a foot away?

The man can hear the tiniest of frequencies from space, but he can't hear Diana right behind him? Wtf?
It's not any worse than Batman sneaking up on him.

Batdude!~

Aid me in my battle on SHC, to the end of gaining Superman a fair and vocal backer!

Thorbaggers must be stopped!

Originally posted by UniOmni
Batdude!~

Aid me in my battle on SHC, to the end of gaining Superman a fair and vocal backer!

Thorbaggers must be stopped!

Alrighty.

What thread is it?

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not any worse than Batman sneaking up on him.

Anybody sneaking up on Superman is complete garbage writing.

Originally posted by Juntai
.. Is a KO a win on this forum?
Did he knock her unconscious?
Did a plot device wake her up so the battle could continue?
You could also consider the fact that Supes was right next to the sun that he draws power from as a plot device as well.

You know, I was under the assumption that WW actually took at least a couple of punches during her fight with Supes in sacrifice, but I just looked at it and she TOTALLY didn't. The shot at the sun was the ONLY punch Supes actually landed on her. So I guess it's not really much of a durability showing for WW.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You know, I was under the assumption that WW actually took at least a couple of punches during her fight with Supes in sacrifice, but I just looked at it and she TOTALLY didn't. The shot at the sun was the ONLY punch Supes actually landed on her. So I guess it's not really much of a durability showing for WW.

He also blasted her with heat vision in the face for like .5 seconds, and she commented on how it was melting her bones.

Originally posted by batdude123
He also blasted her with heat vision in the face for like .5 seconds, and she commented on how it was melting her bones.
Oh I know, I was talking about actual punches since the instance was originally brought up as a durabilty feat(and it really wasn't). But I COULD see that particular WW taking a beating to Byrne's Supes.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I know, I was talking about actual punches since the instance was originally brought up as a durabilty feat(and it really wasn't). But I COULD see that particular WW taking a beating to Byrne's Supes.

Yeah, I mean, you've got to take into consideration the fact that Superman wasn't in his right mind when he fought her.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, I mean, you've got to take into consideration the fact that Superman wasn't in his right mind when he fought her.
Of course, I still haven't heard anything that convinces me that Byrne's Supes tops WW. Two of his feats you listed(the mountain and the asteroid) have both been accomplished by the Hulk(and he was calm for one and Grey for the other). The way I see it, DOS Supes and current WW are probably about equal as far as strength goes, but she still has the advantage in skill, and probably has speed feats that trump his as well.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Of course, I still haven't heard anything that convinces me that Byrne's Supes tops WW. Two of his feats you listed(the mountain and the asteroid) have both been accomplished by the Hulk(and he was calm for one and Grey for the other). The way I see it, DOS Supes and current WW are probably about equal as far as strength goes, but she still has the advantage in skill, and probably has speed feats that trump his as well.

Well, I'd like to see some type of evidence to suggest Wonder Woman is capable of lifting something the size of Metropolis, or smash something that can destroy Earth. It's no secret she's weaker than Supes.

And since when is being compared to someone like Hulk in strength a bad thing? Also, Hulk didn't lift the mountain, he braced it on his back. Superman threw the land mass into space.

Strength advantage, I'd give to Byrne's Supes. Speed is about even. Byrne's Supes was able to see lightning in slow motion. Skill obviously goes to Diana, but versatility and durability still go to Superman.

Byrne's Superman 6-7/10.

Byrne's Superman fought a true PC version of Superboy... and took some damn good shots.

He literally absorbed the energy of another solar powered being.

Resisted magical transmutation. Took a huge brunt of the blast that destroyed Krypton. Weakened from being thrown into a red sun twice...he flew back to earth in a few minutes under his own power.

Just a couple off the top of my head in addition to what Juntai and Batdude wrote.

On top of that...stalemating with Doomsday is quite a feat considering what DD did before he met Superman...he was already quite powerful.

Originally posted by Accel
You could also consider the fact that Supes was right next to the sun that he draws power from as a plot device as well. Diana with the Kryptonite ring stunted his power absorbtion, imo.

Can someone give me issues or scans of some of these feats They be quite useful.