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Ok so which comic character is the best rolemodel?
From which character you think children can learn the most..
personally uhm stuck between Tony Stark,The Hulk and Dr Doom
From Doom i learned that you can make a deadly deadray from a piece of paper a rubberband and the toe nail of a guy named Ray ,From The Hulk i learned that purple doesn't matches with green and from Tony i learned how to make the best damn Mojito's
Below are the characters i think deserve the titel.

Captain America
Ben Grim
Reed Richards
Dr Doom
Batman
Superman
Iron man
The Hulk
The Punisher
Charles Xavier

Who deserves the titel best rolemodel 2007?


Discus!!!

Captain America or Superman

But Cap is more of a American based icon, Sups is more of a world icon.

Sups wins.

Captain America - He would have originally been ideal , but the American public currently are divided between hating him/loving him

Ben - He's excessively violent (soccer moms don't like that) but is pretty good with kids, plus he has his own brand of Rap Artists.

Reed - Far too smart , kids wouldn't be able to understand him nor comprehend his latest 'Ends outweigh the means' ideology.

Doom - Despot and Terrorist/Criminal . No

Batman - Vigilante, excessive violence and the publics view upon him running about with Robin - No

Superman - Polite, kind , merciful etc . Pretty much the ideal role-model

Ironman - Commie busting , weapons dealing fascist whose head of an international Spy organization ? No

Hulk - ...No

Punisher - Same as above

Charles - Mutant , plus isn't above screwing with peoples minds to occasionally tip the balance. No

Supes.

from a morality point of view on things superman,but if you want the child to attain things deemed impossible to mortals then doom.

Reed.

Originally posted by lordboo
from a morality point of view on things superman,but if you want the child to attain things deemed impossible to mortals the doom.

True, Doom may be an ass but he has insane willpower and drive. Man just wont stop until he's a god....

Superman is the best choice for moral.

One of these two:

Ben Grim
Superman

As for the others:

Captain America - Nope not after Civil War.
Reed Richards - Jerk
Dr Doom - Evil.
Batman - Ends justifies the means kind of ethos...nope
Iron man - Hell no. O_o
The Hulk -
The Punisher - ermm
Charles Xavier -Creepy bald bastard with a flawed ethos.

IMO Doom. The guy has motivation.

Originally posted by Aqua-pimp
Ok so which comic character is the best rolemodel?
From which character you think children can learn the most..
personally uhm stuck between Tony Stark,The Hulk and Dr Doom
From Doom i learned that you can make a deadly deadray from a piece of paper a rubberband and the toe nail of a guy named Ray ,From The Hulk i learned that purple doesn't matches with green and from Tony i learned how to make the best damn Mojito's
Below are the characters i think deserve the titel.

Captain America
Ben Grim
Reed Richards
Dr Doom
Batman
Superman
Iron man
The Hulk
The Punisher
Charles Xavier

Who deserves the titel best rolemodel 2007?


Discus!!!



None of these guys are good role models, they are all either far left or far right... and neither is healthy.

Ben Grimm is the closest to "normal" so he gets my node.

Superman

Xaviers bad because his ethics or so flawed its not even funny. If you dont agree with him he slowly influences your mind until you do without any idea of what hes done.

Supes and Cap definately. Thing probably. I would maybe add Spidey, SS and Billy Batson.

Reed Richards - Pro reg = no!
Dr Doom - Just no.
Batman - I guess not killing is a good quality.
Iron man - Pro reg = no!
The Hulk - Hulk smash too much.
The Punisher - Killing = no.
Charles Xavier - Messing with minds = no.

Thing or Spidey most likely, they are the easiest to relate to. Spidey has had the press against him often but he's easy to relate to for us adults.

Thing.

Captain America - Patriot. How can that be bad.
Ben Grim - A real man. Thats something we all can aspire to be.
Reed Richards - Everything he has is something he earned. Thats a good standard to set.
Dr Doom - He's motivated, smart and runs a country most certainly something to shoot for.
Batman - (see ReedRichards)
Superman - He's Superman. The freaking Ubermench!
Iron man - . . . just evil. So evil.
The Hulk - He's over come the existental problem of existing only for hate and become a well rounded person. Also he took over planet/country.
The Punisher - He knows what he wants and how to get it.
Charles Xavier - Despite his baldness and paraplegia he's running a school, working as an activist and has become part of the Illuminati.


I'd say they're all pretty good 313

spiderman is IMO the overall best role model in comics today and of all time, though from this list its captain america or superman

Originally posted by mykke
spiderman is IMO the overall best role model in comics today and of all time, though from this list its captain america or superman
Yeah because getting pushed around by a guy you owe a favour and flip-floping between your friends ect

Peters jsut popular, not a good role model.

Cap is a patriot, and has a strong moral code, but he's also a bit of an ideologue...as a parent, I want my child to make up his own mind about issues so, no.

Ben Grim has horrible self-esteem issues, so another no goes to him.

Reed Richards is intelligent, resourceful, and hardworking, but has trouble setting priorities (hence having to repair his relationship with Sue). No.

Dr Doom is intelligent, resourceful, hardworking, and strongly motivated by his own moral code. Too bad his moral code involves total world domination and meddling in black magic in order to rescue his mother from Hell. No.

Batman has WAY too much emotional baggage. Also glorifies vengeance rather than turning the other cheek. Aversion to killing is a plus, but no.

Superman is probably a good role model, although the whole Clark Kent persona tells me he may have some unresolved issues...

Iron man is an alcoholic, fascist, megalomaniacal womanizer. No.

The Hulk essentially glorifies undiluted rage and lashing out blindly at others. No.

The Punisher. Ummmmm...no.

Charles Xavier is intelligent, resourceful, hardworking, motivated, and compassionate. And mucks with people's minds. No.

Having said that, of the above characters the three who most closely articulate the traits I would admire in a role model are Richards, Supes, and Xavier.

Cap gets an honorable mention for the strength of his convictions.

/ducks behind the nearest object in anticipation of flying tomatoes...

The best role model is Green Lantern(hal)

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The best role model is Green Lantern(hal)

Except the, ya know, the trying to destroy the entire DC Universe and being God's Wrath bit....

When did Xavier willingly abuse his telepathy? His behaviour in UXM has been a bit weird lately, but still. He never really uses his telepathy against people unless they endanger other people's lives.

Originally posted by llagrok
When did Xavier willingly abuse his telepathy? His behaviour in UXM has been a bit weird lately, but still. He never really uses his telepathy against people unless they endanger other people's lives.

He used it on Kitty, remember the whole "Professor Xavier is a jerk" thing.
He tried to use it on Emma so she would join his X-Men 1.5 in Deadly Genesis.
He mind wiped Vulcan from Cyclops' mind.
He uses children as his own personal bodyguards that enforce his idealistic and yet unpractical logic.
He believes his ethos is above the rest.
Xavier sent the X-Men 1.5 to their deaths.
He's a hypocrite, a little bit of Xavier's darker side was shown in The Rise and Fall arc, where he made Rachel abuse the X-Mens own telepathic code of ethics just to get a head.
Onslaught... O_o That wasn't just Magnetos fault.
He's part of the Illuminati 'nuff said.
That whole Danger incident in AXM.
The Ultimate Universe's Xavier has nothing on the bastardy of the 616 Version.

There's probably more but that's just off the top of my head. Marvel have established this notion of Xavier being a bastard all the way back to the UXM 100's where Claremonts description of him was that he's no better then Magneto and this notion has been carried on by other writers.

Originally posted by Draco69
Except the, ya know, the trying to destroy the entire DC Universe and being God's Wrath bit.... Wasn't him.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The best role model is Green Lantern(hal)

Yeah..

Paedophiles don't make good role models for children .

Easily Captain America, especially now that he's a martyr, I don't know about you lot.. when I was a child if he was anti-reg I'd of thought he fawkin' rocked.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Yeah..

Paedophiles don't make good role models for children .

Easily Captain America, especially now that he's a martyr, I don't know about you lot.. when I was a child if he was anti-reg I'd of thought he fawkin' rocked. Captain Surrender & cry about it- is no role model.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He used it on Kitty, remember the whole "Professor Xavier is a jerk" thing.
He tried to use it on Emma so she would join his X-Men 1.5 in Deadly Genesis.
He mind wiped Vulcan from Cyclops' mind.
He uses children as his own personal bodyguards that enforce his idealistic and yet unpractical logic.
He believes his ethos is above the rest.
Xavier sent the X-Men 1.5 to their deaths.
He's a hypocrite, a little bit of Xavier's darker side was shown in The Rise and Fall arc, where he made Rachel abuse the X-Mens own telepathic code of ethics just to get a head.
Onslaught... O_o That wasn't just Magnetos fault.
He's part of the Illuminati 'nuff said.
That whole Danger incident in AXM.
The Ultimate Universe's Xavier has nothing on the bastardy of the 616 Version.

There's probably more but that's just off the top of my head. Marvel have established this notion of Xavier being a bastard all the way back to the UXM 100's where Claremonts description of him was that he's no better then Magneto and this notion has been carried on by other writers.

Oh my god, you are so full of shit

First of all, all children have a choice. If they want out of the school, they're out. He didn't know that X-men 1.5 were going to die did he? He's not clairvoyant. That's a mistake, not an act of evil.

Okay, so Xavier stopped Magneto from killing the rest of the x-men, after he had ripped out Wolverine's skeleton? Wow, talk about evil.

X-men deadly genesis was complete nonsense.

Danger room session? Where he took care of Danger? Was that truly so horrible?

I also mentioned that his recent behaviour had been very OUT OF CHARACTER and I agree with you there. I don't think they're doing a good job depicting him nowadays, something's changing in him. The recent UXM comics have been all about trying to make him come off as a bad guy.

Originally posted by Juntai
Captain Surrender & cry about it- is no role model.


The Conscience has his eye on you.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
The Conscience has his eye on you.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
The Conscience has his eye on you. I just don't like how millar butchered his character.

Originally posted by llagrok
Oh my god, you are so full of shit

First of all, all children have a choice. If they want out of the school, they're out. He didn't know that X-men 1.5 were going to die did he? He's not clairvoyant. That's a mistake, not an act of evil.

Okay, so Xavier stopped Magneto from killing the rest of the x-men, after he had ripped out Wolverine's skeleton? Wow, talk about evil.

X-men deadly genesis was complete nonsense.

Danger room session? Where he took care of Danger? Was that truly so horrible?

I also mentioned that his recent behaviour had been very OUT OF CHARACTER and I agree with you there. I don't think they're doing a good job depicting him nowadays, something's changing in him. The recent UXM comics have been all about trying to make him come off as a bad guy. He imprisoned danger even when he found out it was sentient. He also tried to coerce Amelia Voigt into joining him even though she made it clear she didn't . He started influencing her mind to agree with him.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
He imprisoned danger even when he found out it was sentient. He also tried to coerce Amelia Voigt into joining him even though she made it clear she didn't . He started influencing her mind to agree with him. I honestly don't read much X men, but one of my best friends collects pretty much any title with an X in it. Even he says Xavier is a dick. He was telling me that a couple years ago.

Overall - Either Superman (cliche as it may be) or Captain America.

Lately though, I have to give props to Richard Rider a.k.a Nova because he has displayed more admirable qualities in recent months than anyone else. I didn't even like classic Nova, but he's one of my favorites heroes now. He has displayed tremendous leadership and courage. Go Nova!!!

Originally posted by Juntai
I honestly don't read much X men, but one of my best friends collects pretty much any title with an X in it. Even he says Xavier is a dick. He was telling me that a couple years ago. Yeah Sage said it best "Telepaths like Emma Frost and Charles Xavier are why mankind fears us, they can go into your mind influence your thoughts. Though you think your decisions are your own, you never had a choice to begin with."

Originally posted by Juntai
I honestly don't read much X men, but one of my best friends collects pretty much any title with an X in it. Even he says Xavier is a dick. He was telling me that a couple years ago. Amelia was his girlfriend and he started influencing her to join the X-men. He got caught when she still refused and he entered her mind instead of subtly putting ideas into her head like he was doing. When he bulldozed his way in thats when she figured out what he was doing.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Amelia was his girlfriend and he started influencing her to join the X-men. He got caught when she still refused and he entered her mind instead of subtly putting ideas into her head like he was doing. When he bulldozed his way in thats when she figured out what he was doing. Didn't he get the rights and the funds for the program by manipulating all kinds of people too?

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't he get the rights and the funds for the program by manipulating all kinds of people too?

Nope.

Influencing someone telepathically is no worse than playing on their emotions. Persuading people doesn't necessarily mean you're evil, he never straight out forces people to join his cause.

Originally posted by llagrok
Nope.

Influencing someone telepathically is no worse than playing on their emotions. Persuading people doesn't necessarily mean you're evil, he never straight out forces people to join his cause. How is that not manipulating them, as I said in my last post?

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't he get the rights and the funds for the program by manipulating all kinds of people too? I think that was the Ultimate version and the 616 . Hes the reason why the Extreme X-men series were created. Rogue, Storm, Bishop, Sage, and Gambit found destiny's diaries. In them she wrote of the future she had dreams about. They decided to hide them rather than give them to the professor who couldn't be trusted with them.

Originally posted by llagrok
Nope.

Influencing someone telepathically is no worse than playing on their emotions. Persuading people doesn't necessarily mean you're evil, he never straight out forces people to join his cause. Are you kidding me. Please dude, putting thoughts into someones head and making it seem appealing in their brain is as manipulative as you can get.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Are you kidding me. Please dude, putting thoughts into someones head and making it seem appealing in their brain is as manipulative as you can get.


I have to agree. That some pretty underhanded ish. But honestly if you had that power it would be very hard for you not to do it.

Originally posted by llagrok
Oh my god, you are so full of shit

First of all, all children have a choice. If they want out of the school, they're out. He didn't know that X-men 1.5 were going to die did he? He's not clairvoyant. That's a mistake, not an act of evil.

Okay, so Xavier stopped Magneto from killing the rest of the x-men, after he had ripped out Wolverine's skeleton? Wow, talk about evil.

X-men deadly genesis was complete nonsense.

Danger room session? Where he took care of Danger? Was that truly so horrible?

I also mentioned that his recent behaviour had been very OUT OF CHARACTER and I agree with you there. I don't think they're doing a good job depicting him nowadays, something's changing in him. The recent UXM comics have been all about trying to make him come off as a bad guy.

After what you just stated you don't have the right to comment on what is and isn't a pile of shit.
For the following reasons:

Scared mutant children...the fact that you even say they have a choice is ridiculous. They were easily brainwashed into following is idealistic dream. A dream that is just not practical in the real world.
When he recruited the X-Men 1.5 he coerced them into joining his team, he abused the relationship between Vulcan and Scott. He even knew that the chances of him losing contact with the 1.5 team like he did with his initial team were very high. He basically sent a bunch of children blind into the depths of Krakoa. He should have just gone himself.
Afterwards he went and recruited the X-Men 2.0, again he used each ones inner desires and manipulated each one into joining his cause.
It was not a mistake it was desperation and he knew that the outcome of sending the X-Men 1.5 out there was suicide as so eloquently shown by Moira's disgust.
I never said Xavier was evil, I said he was a bastard...Emma Frost isn't evil but she's no altruist, neither is Xavier. They both have a warped code of ethics, Emma's is more open about who she is. Xavier operates under cover.

We have:
- Him forcing Kitty Pryde of the room via mind control.
- And him trying to mind control Emma into joining the X-Men 1.5
- Him abusing Rachel telepathy in the recent UXM arc
- Him delving into Ms Coopers head in new UXM arc

You're missing the point about Onslaught, I have no problem with Xavier mindwiping Magneto, heck I wasn't even referring to that incident. I was talking about the mentality behind Onslaughts train of thought, as we saw when Jean confronted him on the Astral Plane. Magneto wasn't the only one responsible for that, most of it was down to Xavier.

Yes the Danger Room where he trapped a childesque sentient being and brainwashed it to do one single thing...kill the X-Men. All it knows is violence. Why do you think everyone was so upset with him in AXM. Why do you think he was ashamed of himself in AXM.

Deadly Genesis isn't complete nonsense, you're not giving Xavier's characterisation enough credit. Xavier is one of the most intriguing characters in the X-Men. For the same reasons as Emma Frost. His morals are "warped", the difference between him and her is her ethos is more practical and she's more open about abusing her powers. Xavier is actually ashamed of the way he has acted in the past that's why he's formed this illusion and this idealistic dream where he portrays himself as some altruistic teacher type figure. The hypocrisy in it all is that he still did things that conflicted with the X-Mens code of ethics after establishing this mask. The fact that he still does it means that he's one of those "The ends justifies the means" kind of people. The recent characterisation of Xavier in UXM is the real Xavier, he's finally decided to stop hiding after all these years. Finally decided to stop being such a hypocrite.
This notion has been around for ages ever since the Claremont era. Xavier is no better then Magneto. Both of them aren't evil, but both are bastards.

Marvel is doing everything they can to build on this, Deadly and the Illuminati are just examples of this.

You're simplyfing everything by viewing Xavier the way you're doing now. A lot of things aren't just about black and white...good and evil...they're are a lot of grey areas as well.

I never once said Xavier was evil, but there's no denying that he's a bastard. Again that's just off the top of my head. I completely forgot about the Amelia Voght thing.

Originally posted by Juntai
Captain Surrender & cry about it- is no role model.

real men aren't afraid to cry furious

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
After what you just stated you don't have the right to comment on what is and isn't a pile of shit.
For the following reasons:

Scared mutant children...the fact that you even say they have a choice is ridiculous. They were easily brainwashed into following is idealistic dream. A dream that is just not practical in the real world.
When he recruited the X-Men 1.5 he coerced them into joining his team, he abused the relationship between Vulcan and Scott. He even knew that the chances of him losing contact with the 1.5 team like he did with his initial team were very high. He basically sent a bunch of children blind into the depths of Krakoa. He should have just gone himself.
Afterwards he went and recruited the X-Men 2.0, again he used each ones inner desires and manipulated each one into joining his cause.
It was not a mistake it was desperation and he knew that the outcome of sending the X-Men 1.5 out there was suicide as so eloquently shown by Moira's disgust.
I never said Xavier was evil, I said he was a bastard...Emma Frost isn't evil but she's no altruist, neither is Xavier. They both have a warped code of ethics, Emma's is more open about who she is. Xavier operates under cover.

We have:
- Him forcing Kitty Pryde of the room via mind control.
- And him trying to mind control Emma into joining the X-Men 1.5
- Him abusing Rachel telepathy in the recent UXM arc
- Him delving into Ms Coopers head in new UXM arc

You're missing the point about Onslaught, I have no problem with Xavier mindwiping Magneto, heck I wasn't even referring to that incident. I was talking about the mentality behind Onslaughts train of thought, as we saw when Jean confronted him on the Astral Plane. Magneto wasn't the only one responsible for that, most of it was down to Xavier.

Yes the Danger Room where he trapped a childesque sentient being and brainwashed it to do one single thing...kill the X-Men. All it knows is violence. Why do you think everyone was so upset with him in AXM. Why do you think he was ashamed of himself in AXM.

Deadly Genesis isn't complete nonsense, you're not giving Xavier's characterisation enough credit. Xavier is one of the most intriguing characters in the X-Men. For the same reasons as Emma Frost. His morals are "warped", the difference between him and her is her ethos is more practical and she's more open about abusing her powers. Xavier is actually ashamed of the way he has acted in the past that's why he's formed this illusion and this idealistic dream where he portrays himself as some altruistic teacher type figure. The hypocrisy in it all is that he still did things that conflicted with the X-Mens code of ethics. The recent characterisation of Xavier in UXM is the real Xavier, he's finally decided to stop hiding after all these years. Finally decided to stop being such a hypocrite.
This notion has been around for ages ever since the Claremont era. Xavier is no better then Magneto. Both of them aren't evil, but both are bastards.

Marvel is doing everything they can to build on this, Deadly and the Illuminati are just examples of this.

You're simplyfing everything by viewing Xavier the way you're doing now. A lot of things aren't just about black and white...good and evil...they're are a lot of grey areas as well.

I never once said Xavier was evil, but there's no denying that he's a bastard. Again that's just off the top of my head. I completely forgot about the Amelia Voght thing.

Xavier doesn't simply mind control people into doing what he wants, simple as that. It's all about point of view.

What the **** is your definition of free will then? If he supposedly "scares" the children to stay in his school? Because there's push and pull factors EVERYWHERE in society. INSPIRING people to believing in his dream is not the same as manipulating them. When they're out there fighting for world peace, you must be thinking "Oh shit man, xavier's one evil bastard. Trying to gain humanity's trust, what a scumbag"

Onslaught's train of thought when he confronted Jean? HA HA HA! If you think Xavier was consciously responsible for Onslaught's actions, then get real.

I don't give a flying **** what happens in uncanny retcon-men, because it's all nonsense. All of the sudden they decide to give Xavier some more depth, and turn him in to a monster.

The Illuminati is a necessity. I have no doubt that the world would be pretty f'ed if it hadn't been for them. Ironically, the world is f'ed due to them.

You can't blindly follow what happens in every comic. If so, do you believe that Black Panther's arm bar is realistic and makes perfect sense then?

Xavier trains people to try and improve the world. You're giving him crap because you think he should train them to survive in the world as it is today. If everyone was trained Stark school to be slick as hell, then the world would never improve. It would stay the way it is forever.

Have that many of Xavier's students failed in the real world though? I think they're doing a pretty good job actually. Most x-men who quit don't end up as bums, now do they?

You've got like 10 comics to back up all your statements. Ten INCREDIBLY suspicious comics. I've got 50 years of showings and feats.

For your record, love messes with everyone's mind. Everyone makes poor decisions when they're in love. Xavier is no exception.

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah because getting pushed around by a guy you owe a favour and flip-floping between your friends ect

Peters jsut popular, not a good role model. Noone on that list is perfect, but the point is Peter always tries to make things right. About as realistically good as a person can get.

Originally posted by llagrok
Xavier doesn't simply mind control people into doing what he wants, simple as that. It's all about point of view.

What the **** is your definition of free will then? If he supposedly "scares" the children to stay in his school? Because there's push and pull factors EVERYWHERE in society. INSPIRING people to believing in his dream is not the same as manipulating them. When they're out there fighting for world peace, you must be thinking "Oh shit man, xavier's one evil bastard. Trying to gain humanity's trust, what a scumbag"

Onslaught's train of thought when he confronted Jean? HA HA HA! If you think Xavier was consciously responsible for Onslaught's actions, then get real.

I don't give a flying **** what happens in uncanny retcon-men, because it's all nonsense. All of the sudden they decide to give Xavier some more depth, and turn him in to a monster.

The Illuminati is a necessity. I have no doubt that the world would be pretty f'ed if it hadn't been for them. Ironically, the world is f'ed due to them.

You can't blindly follow what happens in every comic. If so, do you believe that Black Panther's arm bar is realistic and makes perfect sense then?

Xavier trains people to try and improve the world. You're giving him crap because you think he should train them to survive in the world as it is today. If everyone was trained Stark school to be slick as hell, then the world would never improve. It would stay the way it is forever.

You've got like 10 comics to back up all your statements. Ten INCREDIBLY suspicious comics. I've got 50 years of showings and feats.

For your record, love messes with everyone's mind. Everyone makes poor decisions when they're in love. Xavier is no exception.

He doesn't force people? He outright tried to force Emma into joining his X-Men 1.5. He mentally forced Kitty out of a room because he was frustrated with her.
Regarding the other X-Men. He used their own desires against them. That's manipulative there's no way round that.

Oh yeah he's sending a bunch of children into a warzone, Xavier's such a saint he has children do his dirty work. There is no difference between the methods used by a sane Magneto(One whose no being driven insane by his powers) and him.

Onslaught was acting upon Xaviers deeper/darker desires...the same Xavier who invented the Xavier Protocols and whose past time was coming up with ways to kill every single X-Man.

This retcon occured way back in the X-Men 100's where Claremont established this. The Mind Control/Kitty incident is here and I have an interview where he comments on the ethos of both Magneto and Xavier which I think I'll put up after lunch.


The Illuminati isn't a neccesity so far you have them meddling in issues that don't need meddling.(Skrulls, Infinity Gems, Beyonder) They're a group of men who like to play god. Blackbolt and Namor to a lesser extent.

I'm blindly following when this has been addressed by the writers and was established a very long time ago. Go figure.



What the heck does this have to do with whether Xavier is a bastard or not? The fact that Marvel have portrayed him as one for the past 30 years shows.



You haven't shown any proof that shows Xavier in any other light. You're just trying to make excuses for his actions when he himself knows his actions wrong. Again no one says he's evil, he's just a bastard and a hypocrite. And he'll do whatever it takes to get his way. I expect to see more of this in WWH: X-Men for becoming affiliated with the Illuminati.

Xavier rules.

He definetly IS a good role model for mutant children, sure.. because they don't know about all the sneaky, evil things that he does.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Xavier rules.

He definetly IS a good role model for mutant children, sure.. because they don't know about all the sneaky, evil things that he does.

But of course, and to think that my description of Xavier is far more toned down then Claremonts. Claremont went as far to compare his thinking to that of a super-villian. And I take it back...Xavier was a bastard since issue #5 of the Uncanny X-Men.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1315/034qh9.th.jpghttp://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4097/035qt5.th.jpghttp://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2250/036ys9.th.jpg

Chris Claremont is wrong 50% of the time. According to him, Xorn was Magneto

Give me an example that's not from the latest UXM comics of him mentally forcing someone to fight, kill or mutilate.

Originally posted by llagrok
Chris Claremont is wrong 50% of the time.

According to him, Xorn was Magneto

Claremont gave examples and issue numbers. As did I and everyone else who posted in this thread, Ed Brubaker acknowledges this and so does Joss Whedon (1. Danger incident. 2. Emma Frost in AXM when she said that Xavier believes that Telepaths are above everyone etc)

Eh...how is that possible? Claremont was the one who wrote the Excalibur run that showed that Xorn was not Magneto.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
But of course, and to think that my description of Xavier is far more toned down then Claremonts. Claremont went as far to compare his thinking to that of a super-villian. And I take it back...Xavier was a bastard since issue #5 of the Uncanny X-Men.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1315/034qh9.th.jpghttp://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4097/035qt5.th.jpghttp://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2250/036ys9.th.jpg

He's bald & disabled!

And he's played by Patrick Stewart in the movies!

How can you not love him?

Originally posted by CasanoVa
He's bald & disabled!

And he's played by Patrick Stewart in the movies!

How can you not love him?

Don't get me wrong, I adore the character...how can you not love a sneaky bastard?

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Yeah..

Paedophiles don't make good role models for children .

Easily Captain America, especially now that he's a martyr, I don't know about you lot.. when I was a child if he was anti-reg I'd of thought he fawkin' rocked.

I'd love to see a 'Church of Cap' dedicated to Steve for being the physical representation of the epitome of mankind. Sharon Carter , Bucky and Falncon could be his disciples. Iron-Man judas and Spidey John the Baptist.

You think he's a bad role model simply because uncanny retcon has decided to turn him into an butt. Making it look like he willingly sacrificed all those kids to Krakoa. He telepathically made Kitty leave the room? That's horrible now? If you think that makes him a butt, wow.

He's not a butt for having desires, because everyone has that. The fact that he has gone through so much trouble holding these back, and controlling himself is a proof of just how good he is. If he really did abuse his powers so much, he'd do Jean every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Just because Emma says it's so, doesn't mean it is. She also claimed that he had erotic mental sessions with Jean on long plane trips.

What warzones did he send the kids into? His number one concern has always been to PROTECT these children. That's why they have all the martial arts and self defense training.

I'm not saying that he's right all the time, I'm saying that he's a good person and a role model.

If you think the fact that he protects children from a world that hates and wants to kill them, tried to persuade a woman he loved into joining him and the fact that he has desires makes him a bad person? Wow, how many good people are there in the world?

What good role models are there then? Didn't Bats get Robin killed? Has he never made bad decisions?

Has Xavier ever been responsible for Genocide, like Magneto has? Did he ever try to kill the entire human population, simply because they don't like him and his kind? No, he tries to gain their trust.

If he has to mind control a rowdy kid out of the room to do so? Then go ahead.

Originally posted by llagrok
You think he's a bad role model simply because uncanny retcon has decided to turn him into an butt. Making it look like he willingly sacrificed all those kids to Krakoa. He telepathically made Kitty leave the room? That's horrible now? If you think that makes him a butt, wow.

He's not a butt for having desires, because everyone has that. The fact that he has gone through so much trouble holding these back, and controlling himself is a proof of just how good he is. If he really did abuse his powers so much, he'd do Jean every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Not so much a retcon when it all began in UXM #5 now is it? Again he did it out of desperation.
As Claremont said he was growing out of it. Then it's revealed that Xavier didn't actually grow out of it, Onslaught Saga, NXM, AXM, In HoM Wanda teaches him a lesson and he learns from it. He's blatant about abusing his powers now not the hypocrite he once was.
Was there a need to do what he did to Danger? Was there a need to join the Illuminati and play god. Was there a need to try and Force Emma into joining the X-Men 1.5. Was there a need to lie to the X-Men time and time again.(UXM #5 like Claremont said)

The fact that he didn't have his way with Jean doesn't mean he's a good person. Even certain super villians frown upon rape. It means he doesn't rape children. He has abuses their trust in other ways.



IRRC Emma said Jean and Xavier swapped thoughts. Nothing more. She reiterated by sayings all telepaths do this.
Everything Emma said in that session with Scott was true. That's how she broke each one of the AXM members down. She knew them. Again you're making excuses when the writers even agree with me.



Every single time he sent the X-Children after a bad guy. Martial Arts, self defense training...tools that they needed to carry out his dirty work. You wouldn't say the same to a person who uses child soldiers now would you?
Heck their parents didn't even know what Xavier was doing to their children. What gives him that right. You keep saying he was protecting them. But how many of them ended up dying on more then one occasion? This is war...and Xaviers army consists of mutant children.



What makes Xavier a bad role model is that he's a hypocrite he violates his very own code of ethics when it suits him...the fact that his primary goal is world peace...shows that he's not evil. But at the same time he's not a good role model and he's not the saint you make him out to be. Because he'll do whatever it takes to get to reach that dream, much like Magneto.



Has anyone said that Batmans a good role model? I think that answer s your question.



Magnetos powers cause an imbalance in the brain which causes insanity as explained by Moira.
BTW Which Genocide incident are you talking about with Magneto? Magneto kills humans...but then the humans he kills are humans that participate in this Mutant/Human war. It's war...it's wrong but it's war. What can you say. Non-X-Men affiliated Magneto has saved humans as well.



No he actually mind controlled her out of anger. She didn't realize that phasing through computers would cause the data to get erased so he forced her out the room telepathically and it according to Kitty it hurt.

According to the angry little pup who wanted to make it look like he was a bad guy?

Scott already knew that telepaths speak to each other, that was NOT the type of communication that Emma was referring to.

Did Xavier ever FORCE anyone to participate in missions? No, he held them back to make sure they were ready. Are you familiar with Jubilee? Those so called children, are people whose life he rescued and provided a better alternative for. Did you ever hear "No Professor, please don't make us go outside and fight the bad guys."

After the 1980s most X-men have been fully grown anyways and completely responsible for their own actions.

He plays god in Illuminati, oh really now? They're a council of the strongest and the brightest. It's obvious that they had no bad intentions when it came to the IG.

Also, try and force Emma? If he wanted to, he could've forced her. You keep on saying "tried to control with his telepathy" and such, but the truth is that if Xavier wanted to, he could make all the people in the world accept mutants.

If he really wanted to he could remove all the mutant hatred in the world, but he hasn't.

You're almost like a broken record now. Keep on pointing to the same issues and interviews. Claiming that he violated their free will. Has he ever telepathically forced anyone to stay at the mansion? Has he ever telepathically forced anyone to carry out missions? NO AND NO

Does he make bad decisions sometimes? Yes.
Does that necessarily make him a bad person? No.

Xavier's not a hypocrite, if he was then there wouldn't be any mutant hatred in the world, no would there?

Originally posted by llagrok
According to the angry little pup who wanted to make it look like he was a bad guy?

Scott already knew that telepaths speak to each other, that was NOT the type of communication that Emma was referring to.

Did Xavier ever FORCE anyone to participate in missions? No, he held them back to make sure they were ready. Are you familiar with Jubilee? Those so called children, are people whose life he rescued and provided a better alternative for. Did you ever hear "No Professor, please don't make us go outside and fight the bad guys."

After the 1980s most X-men have been fully grown anyways and completely responsible for their own actions.

He plays god in Illuminati, oh really now? They're a council of the strongest and the brightest. It's obvious that they had no bad intentions when it came to the IG.

Also, try and force Emma? If he wanted to, he could've forced her. You keep on saying "tried to control with his telepathy" and such, but the truth is that if Xavier wanted to, he could make all the people in the world accept mutants.

If he really wanted to he could remove all the mutant hatred in the world, but he hasn't.

You're almost like a broken record now. Keep on pointing to the same issues and interviews. Claiming that he violated their free will. Has he ever telepathically forced anyone to stay at the mansion? Has he ever telepathically forced anyone to carry out missions? NO AND NO

Does he make bad decisions sometimes? Yes.
Does that necessarily make him a bad person? No.

Xavier's not a hypocrite, if he was then there wouldn't be any mutant hatred in the world, no would there? Cyclops even told Xavier during the danger incident , "Wheres your resolve for the sanctity of life. I guess since he isn't like us he doesn't matter". If that doesn't spell hypocrite I don't know what does.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Cyclops even told Xavier during the danger incident , "Wheres your resolve for the sanctity of life. I guess since he isn't like us he doesn't matter". If that doesn't spell hypocrite I don't know what does.

Wasn't it bent on destruction before it acquired sentience? I think it wanted to kill them when Xavier found out that it was a sentient being.

Also, let's hear your suggestion for a good role model.

Originally posted by llagrok
According to the angry little pup who wanted to make it look like he was a bad guy?

According to Marvel...you don't like it tough...because it was established when UXM began, it was addressed throughout the series and it's been established in the latest UXM issue.
BTW Why is everything about good and bad? Why can't you see that things don't have to be good or bad?



Oh really? The type of communication where telepaths converse in each others minds. It's more comfortable there anyway. Did you read AXM #21 where the AXM are spinning towards breakerworld? Emma takes everyone into her mind for a tea party.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2808/newxmen13115xk3.th.jpg





You don't understand, he placed them in situations where they don't have a choice. Claremont answered this question read the interview. His missions were do or die missions.

- He has an did violate their free will

He's not good or evil....that's what you don't understand.

You haven't pointed out anything to prove otherwise. Fact Xaviers methods do not differ from Magneto and they share a lot of traits.





An unofficial council of the best and brightest who decides the fate of the whole of Mankind. Sending the Hulk into space without a chance to officially defend his case. Gate crashing the Skrull planet only to make a bigger mess for Eaths inhabitants...interfering with the Beyonder when he possed no threat to Earth, gathering the Infinity Gems.



I say tried because he never succeeded. Emma told Moira and him to get the hell out.



His actions don't make him a good person either...it doesn't make him a good role model.

It's not about good or evil, bad or good. There's such a thing as grey areas.



Of course he's a hypocrite he abused his own code of ethics...

I mean there's not much more to say, you may not like but it's the way Xavier has always been.
My case is made, you're arguing for the sake of arguing...Marvel established it. If you don't like it take it up with them.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Cyclops even told Xavier during the danger incident , "Wheres your resolve for the sanctity of life. I guess since he isn't like us he doesn't matter". If that doesn't spell hypocrite I don't know what does.

I wouldn't bother if I were you he seems fixed on his views. But a well presented case nonetheless.

who the hell voted for the punisher?

Xavier could almost do anything with his powers with one thought the man could bang every chick on the planet ,make the president bungee jump from the statue of liberty without a rope and take controle over the world... But instead he choses to reach his dreams the hard way and on top of that he gives mutant children a home and a future while listening to Jean's , Cyclops and Wolverine's bullcrap all the time...
i'f that ain't word some props i don't know what is...
The man is a whole better rolemodel than every person in our world combined.. I'f i had his powers the world would be in some deep deeep doggsh*t...Everybody i know would abuse his powers and i'm not talking about kicking some brat out of a danger room kinda abuse i'f ya know what i mean..
He's maybe not the perfect rolemodel, the man has his flaws but who doesn't ? I think Xavier's character is much more realistic and mature than Superman's...

This post is to EC, not you Aqua Pimp

LOL.

Xavier knows more than anyone about control. Slipping up isn't a sign of abuse. Who are you to decide what's abuse and what isn't?

His missions weren't always "do or die" they chose to go on the missions. They could turn their backs on him whenever they felt like it. Like Storm did.

If Xavier had wanted to force Emma, he could've. Trying is just nonsense, because if he was so desperate about it then he could've made her.

Give me a scan of him clearly violating someone's free will using their telepathy. Then give me an example of YOUR good role model, who has never violated someone's free will.

If Brubaker wants to come along and suddenly **** up Xavier, then be my guest. Won't change my impression of him.

Beyonder posed a threat to their Universe. Or did you somehow manage to miss Secret War? Skrulls have and will always be a danger. Gathering the IG was an absolute necessity, it was to prevent people like Thanos from getting it again. Even you can understand that.

Now, let's see your role model.

Bush...

Originally posted by Aqua-pimp


Xavier could almost do anything with his powers with one thought the man could bang every chick on the planet ,make the president bungee jump from the statue of liberty without a rope and take controle over the world... But instead he choses to reach his dreams the hard way and on top of that he gives mutant children a home and a future while listening to Jean's , Cyclops and Wolverine's bullcrap all the time...
i'f that ain't word some props i don't know what is...
The man is a whole better rolemodel than every person in our world combined.. I'f i had his powers the world would be in some deep deeep doggsh*t...Everybody i know would abuse his powers and i'm not talking about kicking some brat out of a danger room kinda abuse i'f ya know what i mean..
He's maybe not the perfect rolemodel, the man has his flaws but who doesn't ? I think Xavier's character is much more realistic and mature than Superman's...





I agree. No one's perfect, but considering the things Xavier could've done, I think he's a pretty damn good role model

Even if he had Moira, Jean and Amelia every weekend, it still wouldn't be comparable to the truly horrible things he could've done.

Cassandra Nova was evil and she was his direct opposite. What's the direct opposite of evil EC?

I don't see things in just good and evil, but that doesn't mean that there are NO good or evil people. Geez.

Mine to

Dr.Strange is a good role model too though. His dream is getting in bed
with the Scarlet witch and ?

He knows what it's all about

Originally posted by llagrok
Dr.Strange is a good role model too though. His dream is getting in bed
with the Scarlet witch and ?

He knows what it's all about

Xavier FTW

I want to be like Hulk! Hulk Smash!

Originally posted by llagrok
This post is to EC, not you Aqua Pimp

LOL.

Xavier knows more than anyone about control. Slipping up isn't a sign of abuse. Who are you to decide what's abuse and what isn't?

His missions weren't always "do or die" they chose to go on the missions. They could turn their backs on him whenever they felt like it. Like Storm did.

If Xavier had wanted to force Emma, he could've. Trying is just nonsense, because if he was so desperate about it then he could've made her.

Give me a scan of him clearly violating someone's free will using their telepathy. Then give me an example of YOUR good role model, who has never violated someone's free will.

If Brubaker wants to come along and suddenly **** up Xavier, then be my guest. Won't change my impression of him.

Beyonder posed a threat to their Universe. Or did you somehow manage to miss Secret War? Skrulls have and will always be a danger. Gathering the IG was an absolute necessity, it was to prevent people like Thanos from getting it again. Even you can understand that.

Now, let's see your role model.

I don't have a role model...out of all the choices in this thread, the closest role model for children would have to be either the Thing or Superman.

This is a slip up:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5323/xmen30917qe5.th.jpg

This isn't. And as shown by the scans he tried.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8458/xmdg0617og1.th.jpghttp://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5732/xmdg0618eo5.th.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8578/xmendeadlygenesis5of6p2en8.th.jpghttp://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2011/xmendeadlygenesis5of6p3bs8.th.jpg
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9826/uxm149page03hd2.th.jpg

You're asking scared children to leave...or to rationalize for themselves? Storm was a well grounded adult when she made that decision.

It's not just Brubaker it's everyone.

The Beyonder was minding his own business after Secret Wars. He wasn't threatening anyone. They felt the need to meddle and the situation could have ended far worse then it was.
They stirred up more trouble with the Skrulls and botched up there as well.
IG wasn't a necessity either. They're meddling in cosmic affairs that doesn't concern them. Why is it suddenly under their jurisdiction. If anything they've made it worse since all the gems are lying in one place.

Originally posted by llagrok
I agree. No one's perfect, but considering the things Xavier could've done, I think he's a pretty damn good role model

Even if he had Moira, Jean and Amelia every weekend, it still wouldn't be comparable to the truly horrible things he could've done.

Cassandra Nova was evil and she was his direct opposite. What's the direct opposite of evil EC?

I don't see things in just good and evil, but that doesn't mean that there are NO good or evil people. Geez.

Cassandra Nova is not his polar opposite. She's an astral parasite that used his DNA to become his twin sister.

Telling someone to get out of your room, then pushing them out isn't the same as violating their free will.

According to Shi'ar we all have our Mummudrai, polar opposites. I think I'll stick with what they said.

I also told you not to bring that Deadly genesis shit. Brubaker's PIS doesn't apply here.

Originally posted by llagrok
Telling someone to get out of your room, then pushing them out isn't the same as violating their free will.

According to Shi'ar we all have our Mummudrai, polar opposites. I think I'll stick with what they said.

I also told you not to bring that Deadly genesis shit. Brubaker's PIS doesn't apply here.

I'll give you the anti-self thing. However this can be looked upon in two ways. Xaviers wants to save all mutants she wants to destroy them all. In that sense she's his anti-self. And in fact now when I think about it does work. How would you describe a character that will do absolutely anything for the greater good? To further the greater good("His dream" a character may make sinister decisions. So again in that sense CN can be his anti-self.
BTW What kind of morality do you think Magneto's or Emma Frosts anti-self would have. Hence the reason why the CN logic doesn't work here.

Actually controlling someones biological functions and forcing someone out the door mentally is violating there free will.

The Brubaker stuff is part of continuity. So are all the examples Claremont gave.

And it's not just about him abusing his powers. It's also about all his devious secrets and plans. Honesty was never one of his strong points.
That fact alone makes him a bad role model for kids.

If you grab your daughters arm and lead her out of the room, are you someone who abuses his physical strength?

Xavier's MLK junior
Magneto's Malcolm X

So you're seriously going to call Xavier a hypocrite for pushing someone out of the room using Telepathy? I mean, that tells us quite a lot about your bias in this discussion, doesn't it?

By violating their privacy, Xavier means to extract information from their minds and such. He's made like three mental pushes in his adult life, you think that makes him a bad role model?

How about Superman? Self appointed Judge, Jury and Executioner? I don't think he's much better.

Ben Grimm's a good role model, Lockjaw's into him and that's a good sign

If my kid grew up to be half the man Xavier is, I'd be proud as hell. 'nuff said.

You have jack shit to do here besides try and piss me off, seeing as you don't consider any of these good role models. You have nothing to do here, you are not here to participate in the contest. You're only here to antagonize. Please, leave this thread.

Originally posted by llagrok
If you grab your daughters arm and lead her out of the room, are you someone who abuses his physical strength?

Xavier's MLK junior
Magneto's Malcolm X

So you're seriously going to call Xavier a hypocrite for pushing someone out of the room using Telepathy? I mean, that tells us quite a lot about your bias in this discussion, doesn't it?

By violating their privacy, Xavier means to extract information from their minds and such. He's made like three mental pushes in his adult life, you think that makes him a bad role model?

How about Superman? Self appointed Judge, Jury and Executioner? I don't think he's much better.

Ben Grimm's a good role model, Lockjaw's into him and that's a good sign

If my kid grew up to be half the man Xavier is, I'd be proud as hell. 'nuff said.

You have jack shit to do here besides try and piss me off, seeing as you don't consider any of these good role models. You have nothing to do here, you are not here to participate in the contest. You're only here to antagonize. Please, leave this thread.

Violating someones mind is different from physically pulling someone out a room. At least the person has a chance to resist an leave on their own accord.

No I'm calling him a hypocrite for violating his own code of ethics. He used to mind wipe bystanders left right and centre before the X-Men were known to the world. Fact of the matter is while it's understandable it doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite. He's also a hypocrite when it comes to his ethos. All life is sacred...but look what he did to Danger. And when it comes to honesty the good Professor preaches but never takes his own advice.
The icing on the cake is the Child soldier thing.

I said the closest would be Ben Grimm and Superman. Superman because I haven't seen him abuse his power or authority. But then again I was never big into SuperMan comics.

You asked a question at the beginning of this thread and you didn't like the answer you got. And there's only one person to blame for that.
Again if you don't like it, write an angry letter to Marvel or something. With that said I'll leave you to do whatever you do because you're clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Why don't you get the **** out of this thread? You're only here to argue.

Stop calling it child soldiers, he never sent any children into combat. Teens might've had to defend themselves, but don't make it sound like he's forcing anyone to fight. You've yet to show me a scan of him forcing someone to fight. Good job mate, good job.

Superman's the biggest hypocrite in the world, everyone can see that. Good choice for a role model. I'm sure his morals would work, if everyone were Kryptonian.

Why does Xavier mind wipe people?

Your point about Shadowcat not being able to resist is BULLSHIIIIIIIIIIIT. A strong enough mind can resist, just like a strong enough person can resist being pulled out of the room.

You can't handle the fact that Xavier is a good role model. Tough noogies. Get out of the thread now, you have nothing to do here. We're discussing possible good role models, you're trashing Xavier. 10 slip ups at max throughout his entire life, what an evil man.

Incidentally do you think it's right that Green Goblin had sex with Gwen Stacy and got two little kiddies? I mean, everyone knows that it's blatant bullshit, but according to you anything that's stated in a comic goes, even if it's contradicting.

Originally posted by llagrok
Why don't you get the **** out of this thread? You're only here to argue.

Stop calling it child soldiers, he never sent any children into combat. Teens might've had to defend themselves, but don't make it sound like he's forcing anyone to fight. You've yet to show me a scan of him forcing someone to fight. Good job mate, good job.

Superman's the biggest hypocrite in the world, everyone can see that. Good choice for a role model. I'm sure his morals would work, if everyone were Kryptonian.

Why does Xavier mind wipe people?

Your point about Shadowcat not being able to resist is BULLSHIIIIIIIIIIIT. A strong enough mind can resist, just like a strong enough person can resist being pulled out of the room.

You can't handle the fact that Xavier is a good role model. Tough noogies. Get out of the thread now, you have nothing to do here. We're discussing possible good role models, you're trashing Xavier. 10 slip ups at max throughout his entire life, what an evil man.

Incidentally do you think it's right that Green Goblin had sex with Gwen Stacy and got two little kiddies? I mean, everyone knows that it's blatant bullshit, but according to you anything that's stated in a comic goes, even if it's contradicting.

You should never have asked the question then. And if I knew that you would get so upset I would never have answered. So here's a pretty picture:

Well done

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6682/untitledeg2.th.jpg

Now, with the imbecile gone.

Does anyone think Nightcrawler would make a good role model?