mace windu owns... and you all know it

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



zhellblah
ALRIGHT! Mace windu is hands-down the best all-time jedi EVER!!! He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley. He is also the wisest, because he is the only one that foresaw Anakin's slip into the darkside. He's the only one who didn't trust him at all, where the rest of the Jedi Counsel said "whatev".

smoker4
ZOMG, glad you waited so long to inform us

Schecter
Originally posted by zhellblah
He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley.

true, however to be fair the playing field was different.

Originally posted by zhellblah
He is also the wisest, because he is the only one that foresaw Anakin's slip into the darkside. He's the only one who didn't trust him at all, where the rest of the Jedi Counsel said "whatev".

he didnt predict anything. they all knew that anakin's future was clouded.
so no, the council was not like "whatev". mace spoke for the council, so how is this possible? if anyone should be credited for discovering anakin's slip to the darkside it should be yoda, who meditated on him and learned of the tusken raider slaughter.


anyway, with all his wisdom and forsight, he didnt see anakins' cheap shot coming. he turned his back on the man whom you claim he knew turned to evil.
so that would make him a complete sucker, wouldnt it?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Schecter
true, however to be fair the playing field was different.



he didnt predict anything. they all knew that anakin's future was clouded.
so no, the council was not like "whatev". mace spoke for the council, so how is this possible? if anyone should be credited for discovering anakin's slip to the darkside it should be yoda, who meditated on him and learned of the tusken raider slaughter.


anyway, with all his wisdom and forsight, he didnt see anakins' cheap shot coming. he turned his back on the man whom you claim he knew turned to evil.
so that would make him a complete sucker, wouldnt it?

This is a whole different ball game, zhellblah. When you try to make a statement or claim in a forum like this about Star Wars, you had better make sure it is backed up by thousands of other people. What Schecter just did is called OWNAGE!!!

As far as I can tell, Mace Windu is the best skilled Saber fighter. I do not have any evidence to back this up other than he kicked Sids butt like it was nothing.

The man who choreographed all of the saber fighting gave everyone a rating and sids, yoda, and Anakin all had level 9 rating. The guy did not give windu a rating on a scale of 1-10, he said windu is unique. I do not remember the site where this guy was talking about it but this argument was made a long time ago when the movie first came out.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by zhellblah
ALRIGHT! Mace windu is hands-down the best all-time jedi EVER!!! He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley. He is also the wisest, because he is the only one that foresaw Anakin's slip into the darkside. He's the only one who didn't trust him at all, where the rest of the Jedi Counsel said "whatev".

Nope Yoda is. If you haven't noticed Palpatine had to separate himself from Yoda to win. Besides Mace only won the saber duel. Palpatine could have easily pwned him with a simple Force Push instead of doing all that Lighting. And Yoda was the one who said Anakin's future was clouded and informed Mace that Anakin was slipping to the dark side.

And I'm sure Mace was trying his hardest to defeat Palpatine. I mean come on, the Sith Lord himself; yeah let's go easy on him.

Schecter
thats a good point. yoda was not defeated via lightsaber, so saber skills are irrelevant. rather he (successfully) blocked palp's attack with his bare hand. um mace, can you do that? *looks out palp's office window onto the streets below* ewww....apparently not stick out tongue

General G
laughing out loud

As well as Sidious was not trying in the duel with Mace, instead waiting for Mace. And yes, I have proof.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7636224

exanda kane
Don't you think Mace is just a bit shit really? He's not a particuarly likable guy either.

General G
I don't like him.

Ridley_Prime
No respect for Mace. sad

And... how is having better lightsaber skills irrelavent? confused

Schecter
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
No respect for Mace. sad

And... how is having better lightsaber skills irrelavent? confused

irrelevant in that yoda wasnt defeated by lightsaber, as the OP suggests.

Originally posted by zhellblah
He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley.

Count Makashi
Mace is also mine favorite Jedi and i only like Dooku more as a character, but yes he was arrogant, but hey. the whole Jedi order was in the time of the PT(except Qui-Gon Jinn), but hey, you be unchallenged for 1000 years and you will be arrogant as well. The Jedi war the Top Dogs for 1000 years, with no great foe, it is only natural, they would think they ar all that and a bag of chips.

Darth Hord
Plus another advantage he had on Sidious that Yoda didn't was the Vapaad saber form. He definately was not the best jedi all that honor goes to some one by the name of Luke Skywalker.

Sith Master X
Originally posted by zhellblah
He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley.

A good duelist, no doubt. But I think Palps wasn't trying very hard when he fought against Mace. It was sort of staged to make Windu look like a bad guy who was trying to kill a weak old man.

Schecter
thats highly debatable. i think palps intentionally baited mace to kill him, but i think the duel was square with no punches pulled.

the way i see it palps had the upper hand in an open area. in other words i think if it had been palps vs. mace in the republic arena, mace would have been owned.

Council#13
Originally posted by zhellblah
ALRIGHT! Mace windu is hands-down the best all-time jedi EVER!!! He's obviously the best duelist, because he beat the sith lord without trying very hard at all, whereas Yoda failed miserabley. He is also the wisest, because he is the only one that foresaw Anakin's slip into the darkside. He's the only one who didn't trust him at all, where the rest of the Jedi Counsel said "whatev".

He tried pretty hard against Sidious. How can Yoda not be a better duelist than Mace Windu? Whether or not Mace's defeat of Sidious was due to his superior dueling skills or not is debateable, but I still think that he won, fair and square.

All the Jedi Council members forsaw Anakin's possible descent into the Dark Side. That's why they all refused to allow him to be trained. It was only because Obi-Wan promised to a dying Jedi Master that he would train him that Anakin even had the slightest chance of becoming a Jedi.

Ushgarak
Why should Yoda be a better duellist?

Yoda is the wisest. You can't be everything.

Versyn Gaul
It depends on what your parameters for "Best" are. I mean How many Jedi die of old age? (In regards to the 6 movies) I'm no expert but as far as I know 1,Yoda. That makes him Bad Ass in my book.

Riverollv
Mace is not the best saber duelist nor the wisest. He only beat Sidious because of his form, Vapaad, and something called Shatterpoint... Yoda is the wisest.... Anakin the best saber duelist...

Schecter
Originally posted by Riverollv
Mace is not the best saber duelist nor the wisest. He only beat Sidious because of his form, Vapaad, and something called Shatterpoint... Yoda is the wisest.... Anakin the best saber duelist...

everytime someone mentions "vapaad" here, god stomps on a puppie. please refrain.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Why should Yoda be a better duellist?

Yoda is the wisest. You can't be everything.

He's 900 years old. He's has enough time to be everything compared to Mace who is about 40+.

Riverollv
Originally posted by Schecter
everytime someone mentions "vapaad" here, god stomps on a puppie. please refrain.

Here, this will explain:

http://www.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad

Schecter
yes, i know it exists in expanded universe, but...its...expanded universe
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/441810_1-forums-rules-behaviour-spoilers-and-canon-policy-please-read

exanda kane
Mace Windu is no Old Ben.

Riverollv
Yes, I know it's EU but the fact that Mace defeated Sidious easily and is the wisest and most powerful is just not true, so I only tried to prove it. I never got into anything in the EU, Mace already had mastered Shatterpoint and Vapaad in RotS.

Schecter
but...vapaad/shatterpoint does not exist in canon. thats the point i was making.

queeq
Not that bloody EU sabre fighting style nonsense again...

Darth Skorm
Kay...

dadudemon
Like it has been stated before in other places, only god...I mean George Lucas can answer this question to put the argument to rest.

I feel that since he took out Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto with relative ease, and then Mace stood up to him and then later defeated him, saber style, that should be a testament to his abilities. Not to mention, he was able to use Sidious's own force lightening against him.

Also, I feel that George Lucas changed the "happenings" in Palps office to make the story his own. (I am referring to the other accounts in the EU of these events.) I believe he did it so that we would have something to talk about. We should all write down every question we need to be settled about Star Wars, vote on the top ten of those, and then see if we can convince go...I mean George Lucas to answer those.

queeq
Oh yes, that's it. Lucas puts odd scenes in his films so we have something to talk about... sure.

Violent2Dope
I think that Palpatine wasn't trying to defeat Windu, he let him win to win Anakin over from the Jedi to the Sith and in a real battle I think Palpatine would win. However, if it wasn't a movie and wasn't scripted, Samuel L. Jackson would have beaten his old wrinkly ass!

queeq
He would win? And he would allow his face to get melted. I dunno... I find the whole scene a bit odd.

master harmax
I can't believe people are still arguing this : Windu had Palpatine beaten completely - that's how it clearly was in the movie - if it wasn't for Anakin's betrayal ( motivated by his selfish reasons, and delusion that Palpatine had knowledge of the dark side that could enable one to cheat death ), Windu would have chopped off Palpatine's skull, and we would all have gone home, happy, healthy and feeling mighty cheerful, about one hour before the movie actually ended. And any one who disagrees with this is worse than the hair sticking out of Yoda's green ears.

General G
Mace had him beaten because Palpatine let him...look at an earlier post by me, there is a picture that proves it!

queeq
There is?

Count Makashi
Mace won fair and square, he is a better lightsaber dualist, but in an all out fight, if Sidious used all his Force powers, he would have won.

Violent2Dope
I have some evidence to back my claim that Palpatine let him win. You know when he was all like " I'm weak..." and all that nonsense? When Anakin cut off Mace's arm Palpatine knew he won him over and he had the strength to Force Lightning him out the window and could stand when moments before he was acting half dead. Oh and isn't his face the result of his constant use of the Dark Side?

Alliance

Schecter
*sigh*

queeq
time to write some new stuff, Alliance.

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
time to write some new stuff, Alliance.

Mace is done. This is a Mace thread. I do not want to be off topic 13

exanda kane
Your obviously a racist.

queeq
laughing out loud

Alliance
Originally posted by exanda kane
Your obviously a racist.

I take after Lucas.

I am kind of racist though...against whites.

exanda kane
Originally posted by Alliance
I take after Lucas.


stick out tongue

Schecter
Originally posted by Alliance
I take after Lucas.

dont be so hard on yourself

i dont think you're a failure

Alliance
Originally posted by exanda kane
stick out tongue
smile

Originally posted by Schecter
dont be so hard on yourself

i dont think you're a failure

I don't either mhm

General G

Violent2Dope

General G
Sith=Jedi but thinking differently.

Schecter
wrong, wrong, and wrong. as your lord and savior george lucas has clearly stated.

Count Makashi
Sith and the Jedi aren't the same, the Jedi try to help others even if their believes are misguided, they act from a view, to helping others, while the Sith are backstabbing, kill anyone, if it means more power and Alliance, who was behind the war, behind everything, you say Mace didn't follow the law or the will of the people, but did Sidious follow it, did he not start the war, in which billions died, if the people knew that he was behind the war, do you think they would support him, hell no, they would organize an angry mob, to linch him. Mace didn't really have a choice, Sidious was to dangerous, even if he presented the evidence to the Senate and to the press, Sidious would just activate the Clones to follow his orders and he would rule as a tyrant, not giving damn about the rules.

General G
It doesn't matter if he was "too dangerous to be kept alive," the Jedi do not believe in killing prisoners, especially weaponless prisoners, Sidious was a defenseless, unarmed politician when Mace went in to his office and was a defenseless (he made it look that way) unarmed prisoner when he was about to kill him on the window. So Mace Windu did not act like a Jedi at all.

Schecter
defenseless? how can he possibly be defenseless when he:

1-is commander in chief of the largest military complex in the universe
2-owns the senate
3-has mastered the force to the point where only yoda can block his lightning without a weapon.

mace intended to take palpatine prisoner, as was clear.
palpatine made it clear to mace thatnot only would he not be taken alive, but he was just as much a danger without a lightsaber. mace then had a moment of realisation and decided to end it right there.

General G
1) How was his military going to help him there in the situation he was in? Not at all, defenseless.

2) Once again, does nothing for him in the situation. Defenseless.

3) They had no idea of his force potential, he could have just declared himself Sith Lord while only knowing few things, I mean they haven't been seen in over a thousand years, so they would have no idea. As far as they knew. Defenseless.

That was not clear at all. He went in and drew his lightsaber first before Palpatine even got up from his chair. He didn't make that clear, Mace was threatening him, he was defending himself. Once again, they didn't know his force powers, he had done nothing with the force until the lightning. And at the end, he was pleading for his life, which had Anakin and possibly Mace convinced, because of the hesitation.

Schecter
Originally posted by General G
1) How was his military going to help him there in the situation he was in? Not at all, defenseless.

were you paying attention during the order 66 scene? granted the jedi never predicted that, they certainly could deduct that palpatine had the greatest influence over the military that be authorised(more accurately 'finalised' and lead?

Originally posted by General G
2) Once again, does nothing for him in the situation. Defenseless.

yes it does


Originally posted by General G
3) They had no idea of his force potential, he could have just declared himself Sith Lord while only knowing few things, I mean they haven't been seen in over a thousand years, so they would have no idea. As far as they knew. Defenseless.

mace had a good idea of his force potential when he almost had his face blown off by lightning.

look, lets just all agree to disagree. you all can disagree with me and george lucas, and vice versa. combatting baseless and completely anti-story plot theories is something ive been cutting back on

Alliance
Originally posted by General G
Very nice!

if only I had posted it before...winkOriginally posted by Violent2Dope
Dude this changed my life. The Sith and the Jedi are almost the same, they both think they're always right and they can do anything they want.

laughing out loud Excellent. Yes...they are remarkably similar. (I shoot at both). Thats why Anakin brought balance to the force, destroying both the excess of "light" that was the jedi and the excess of "dark" that was the sith. Order restored to 0.Originally posted by Count Makashi
Alliance, who was behind the war, behind everything, you say Mace didn't follow the law or the will of the people, but did Sidious follow it, did he not start the war, in which billions died, if the people knew that he was behind the war, do you think they would support him, hell no, they would organize an angry mob, to linch him. Mace didn't really have a choice, Sidious was to dangerous, even if he presented the evidence to the Senate and to the press, Sidious would just activate the Clones to follow his orders and he would rule as a tyrant, not giving damn about the rules.

Clones we're activated. We're not damn droids you idiot.

The Jedi were aas much behind the war as the Sith. The Jedi accepted AN ARMY dropped right on their doorstep and used military force to attack other planet. If they we're truely good, they would have allowed democratic process to take its course. That was the Jedi way. 36 months of senseless killing is not ver Jedi like. How many people did Palpatine kill in the war? How many did...say Yoda kill? I sense your numbers are off. The Jedi were more of an accomplice in the war than Palpatine was.

Sidious was dangerous...but why did the Jedi let him stay in power long past his term? support the Military Creation Act? Support giving him a dictatorship? Let him stay in office long after his term was up? It seemse to me that there were plenty of places to object.

Even if they didn't...there is still democratic process. If not even the JEDI can follow the guidelines of the Republic, then it was truely dead anyway. Sidious sat in office for what, 12 years, and didn't hurt anyone? He clearly needed to be executed without trial immediately. If Mace would have THOUGHT, there would have been no way to pin the war on the Jedi and the Order would have maintained itself.

Luckily, Anakin was there.

Violent2Dope
The Jedi in a way contradict themselves. They say the way to bring balance to the force is to destroy the Sith. If they did that there would be excessive Light Side and little Dark Side. Light cant exist without darkness.

exanda kane
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The Jedi in a way contradict themselves. They say the way to bring balance to the force is to destroy the Sith. If they did that there would be excessive Light Side and little Dark Side. Light cant exist without darkness.

There's alot of evidence to suggest that the Force doesn't take a "ying-yang" approach and that the a real "balance in the Force" occurs when the dark side is vanquished.

Schecter
Originally posted by exanda kane
There's alot of evidence to suggest that the Force doesn't take a "ying-yang" approach and that the a real "balance in the Force" occurs when the dark side is vanquished.

that evidence being internet theories which go against the entire premise of the story and against george lucas's word on the topic (topic being the story he wrote)

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by exanda kane
There's alot of evidence to suggest that the Force doesn't take a "ying-yang" approach and that the a real "balance in the Force" occurs when the dark side is vanquished. Then George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance.

exanda kane
Originally posted by Schecter
that evidence being internet theories which go against the entire premise of the story and against george lucas's word on the topic (topic being the story he wrote)

You forget to mention that these theories are more intelligent than anything to have come out of George Lucas' mouth.

Schecter
Originally posted by exanda kane
You forget to mention that these theories are more intelligent than anything to have come out of George Lucas' mouth.

but how can a thoery on a film be more intelligent than the mind that created the film? unless of course that theory lies along the line of "it sucks"

exanda kane
When you analyse the film on its structure, irrelevant of what the director says and drawing your own simple conclusions following the logic and morals presented in the film.

For instance, as the prophecy cites, a Chosen One will bring balance to the force, yet only by destroying the Sith is this possible. A balance, in the ying-yang sense of the word, is two parts of a whole. If the prophecy is indeed correct, then how can destroying one of these sides achieve equillibrium?

Notice too, that the moral outlook of the saga is the triumph of good over evil. That would not be balance in the ying-yang sense of the word. When the Rebels muse "May the Force be with you!", they do not need to refer to the "good side" now, do they? They refer to the Force as a good nature in itself, thus further discrediting a ying-yang approach.

If Lucas' word goes against this then, as Violent2Dope aptly states " George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance" and we must wonder how could such a cretin ever create such a popular mythos as Star Wars.

Count Makashi
Originally posted by Alliance


:Clones we're activated. We're not damn droids you idiot.

The Jedi were aas much behind the war as the Sith. The Jedi accepted AN ARMY dropped right on their doorstep and used military force to attack other planet. If they we're truely good, they would have allowed democratic process to take its course. That was the Jedi way. 36 months of senseless killing is not ver Jedi like. How many people did Palpatine kill in the war? How many did...say Yoda kill? I sense your numbers are off. The Jedi were more of an accomplice in the war than Palpatine was.

Sidious was dangerous...but why did the Jedi let him stay in power long past his term? support the Military Creation Act? Support giving him a dictatorship? Let him stay in office long after his term was up? It seemse to me that there were plenty of places to object.

Even if they didn't...there is still democratic process. If not even the JEDI can follow the guidelines of the Republic, then it was truely dead anyway. Sidious sat in office for what, 12 years, and didn't hurt anyone? He clearly needed to be executed without trial immediately. If Mace would have THOUGHT, there would have been no way to pin the war on the Jedi and the Order would have maintained itself.

Luckily, Anakin was there.

You know what i meant, they would be unable to defy orders, once Sidious would send an order.

What, the Jedi behind the war, that was all Sidious doing and they didn't even like, having to go to the war, there was allot of defiance, from some Jedi about that issue. Democratic proses and negotiating was unable, because it was clear that CIS, had no intention of negotiating. Yes, it is true that Sidious didn't kill anyone personally in the war, but, he is responsible for every single person, that died in the war. Hitler, also didn't kill anyone in WW2, yet he is considered the most evil person ever. Sidious is even worse then Hitler, because he controlled both sides and could have said, to the both sides, don't massacre everything at your sight, yet he gaved orders, especially to the CIS, to destroy as much as possible, so that he appears, a bigger savor, when the Republic wins. And he unleashed the likes of GG, on the Universe, who used chemical weapons on civilian's, so don't try to sell me, the Hooker, with the heart of gold. Sidious is pure evil, its simple as that.

The Jedi supported him for so long, because they thought he was trying to help the Republic, if they knew he was a Sith Lord, they wouldn't have support him at all.

What do you mean he didn't hurt anyone, he conspired behind the shadows, ordered murders of numerous political enemies, ordered Dooku to kill Sifo Dyus and God Knows how many other murders he ordered. Your acting as if Mace decided to kill Sidious out of a whim, he tyred to kill him, because Sidious was a threat to the whole civilization, i don't know about youm but if someone threatened my civilization, the very existence of it, i would go Medieval on his as?. I was Mace, i would have taken the whole freaking Jedi order with me, to get the job done.
And its not like the Jedi would have ruled the Galaxy, once they had killed Sidious, they would gibe the power back to the Senate, they had no evil attentions. The assassination of Sidious is a bad act, but they did it for the greater good, but the hands had to get dirty. And its not like Sidious is some old weak man, Mace saw what he did to his 3 colleges, he knew that he was powerful, Sidious was far from being defenceless.
What could Mace have really done, Sidious controlled both the Senate and the courts, even if he arrested him, Sidious would just walk away from the charges. Tell me, what could have he done different.

Yea, its good Anakin was there, so that Sidious was able to build the most Evil, oppressing government the universe ever saw, to build the Death Star, which destroyed the whole planet.........................................., yea thank goodness. roll eyes (sarcastic)

And this isn't about Mace trying t kill Sidious is it, these is because big bad Mace decapitated poor, defenceless Jango, thats why you hate him so much, isn't it. And Jango was a legitimate target, Mace did nothing wrong here.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Alliance

Sidious was dangerous...but why did the Jedi let him stay in power long past his term? support the Military Creation Act? Support giving him a dictatorship? Let him stay in office long after his term was up? It seemse to me that there were plenty of places to object.

Even if they didn't...there is still democratic process. If not even the JEDI can follow the guidelines of the Republic, then it was truely dead anyway. Sidious sat in office for what, 12 years, and didn't hurt anyone? He clearly needed to be executed without trial immediately. If Mace would have THOUGHT, there would have been no way to pin the war on the Jedi and the Order would have maintained itself.

Luckily, Anakin was there.

Okay...they didn't know he was the Sith Lord...that is why he remained in office and was able to do "sithy" stuff behind the "Jedi scene".

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The Jedi in a way contradict themselves. They say the way to bring balance to the force is to destroy the Sith. If they did that there would be excessive Light Side and little Dark Side. Light cant exist without darkness.

Originally posted by exanda kane
There's alot of evidence to suggest that the Force doesn't take a "ying-yang" approach and that the a real "balance in the Force" occurs when the dark side is vanquished.

Originally posted by Schecter
that evidence being internet theories which go against the entire premise of the story and against george lucas's word on the topic (topic being the story he wrote)

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Then George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance.

Originally posted by exanda kane
You forget to mention that these theories are more intelligent than anything to have come out of George Lucas' mouth.

Originally posted by Schecter
but how can a thoery on a film be more intelligent than the mind that created the film? unless of course that theory lies along the line of "it sucks"


Originally posted by exanda kane
When you analyse the film on its structure, irrelevant of what the director says and drawing your own simple conclusions following the logic and morals presented in the film.

For instance, as the prophecy cites, a Chosen One will bring balance to the force, yet only by destroying the Sith is this possible. A balance, in the ying-yang sense of the word, is two parts of a whole. If the prophecy is indeed correct, then how can destroying one of these sides achieve equillibrium?

Notice too, that the moral outlook of the saga is the triumph of good over evil. That would not be balance in the ying-yang sense of the word. When the Rebels muse "May the Force be with you!", they do not need to refer to the "good side" now, do they? They refer to the Force as a good nature in itself, thus further discrediting a ying-yang approach.

If Lucas' word goes against this then, as Violent2Dope aptly states " George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance" and we must wonder how could such a cretin ever create such a popular mythos as Star Wars.

To all of that, the dark side of the force is an imbalance in the force. The dark side is unnatural. The whole balance to the force idea comes from eliminating the dark side which is unnatural. If you are truley light side, then you seek to be one with the force ...if you are dark side, you use the force for you own will and seek to pass the natural force co-existance process and instead use it as a quick path to power. Understanding the force is fundemental for a Star Wars fan.

Count Makashi
Yea, even GL confirms, he said something like this, when Anakin kills the Emperor, he brought the Force, back to the balance.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Count Makashi
And its not like Sidious is some old weak man, Mace saw what he did to his 3 colleges, he knew that he was powerful, Sidious was far from being defenceless. What could Mace have really done, Sidious controlled both the Senate and the courts, even if he arrested him, Sidious would just walk away from the charges. Tell me, what could have he done different.

Pretty well stated right there. Taking him before the courts is a useless stupid idea. He would have gotten off scott free. That is why Mace killed him. Don't you guys think that Mace could see into the future a little bit and see the massacre that was to happen from the Sith Lord? It was Naive of Anakin to think that he should be taken to the courts...Lucas intended all of that for his plot...he wanted to show that Anakin went to the dark side out of naivety...not because he was just bad.

You guys have looked so far into it...you have missed the obvious and most fundemental points in the movie. (That can happen sometimes when you are smart and are also a deep thinker..seriously.)

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay...they didn't know he was the Sith Lord...that is why he remained in office and was able to do "sithy" stuff behind the "Jedi scene".

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The Jedi in a way contradict themselves. They say the way to bring balance to the force is to destroy the Sith. If they did that there would be excessive Light Side and little Dark Side. Light cant exist without darkness.

Originally posted by exanda kane
There's alot of evidence to suggest that the Force doesn't take a "ying-yang" approach and that the a real "balance in the Force" occurs when the dark side is vanquished.

Originally posted by Schecter
that evidence being internet theories which go against the entire premise of the story and against george lucas's word on the topic (topic being the story he wrote)

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Then George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance.

Originally posted by exanda kane
You forget to mention that these theories are more intelligent than anything to have come out of George Lucas' mouth.

Originally posted by Schecter
but how can a thoery on a film be more intelligent than the mind that created the film? unless of course that theory lies along the line of "it sucks"


Originally posted by exanda kane
When you analyse the film on its structure, irrelevant of what the director says and drawing your own simple conclusions following the logic and morals presented in the film.

For instance, as the prophecy cites, a Chosen One will bring balance to the force, yet only by destroying the Sith is this possible. A balance, in the ying-yang sense of the word, is two parts of a whole. If the prophecy is indeed correct, then how can destroying one of these sides achieve equillibrium?

Notice too, that the moral outlook of the saga is the triumph of good over evil. That would not be balance in the ying-yang sense of the word. When the Rebels muse "May the Force be with you!", they do not need to refer to the "good side" now, do they? They refer to the Force as a good nature in itself, thus further discrediting a ying-yang approach.

If Lucas' word goes against this then, as Violent2Dope aptly states " George Lucas doesn't know the meaning of balance" and we must wonder how could such a cretin ever create such a popular mythos as Star Wars.

To all of that, the dark side of the force is an imbalance in the force. The dark side is unnatural. The whole balance to the force idea comes from eliminating the dark side which is unnatural. If you are truley light side, then you seek to be one with the force ...if you are dark side, you use the force for you own will and seek to pass the natural force co-existance process and instead use it as a quick path to power. Understanding the force is fundemental for a Star Wars fan. Then once again GL doesn't know the meaning of balance. wink

dadudemon
Originally posted by Violent2Dope Then once again GL doesn't know the meaning of balance. wink

"From a certain point of view."

LOL, i am a nerd.

Alliance
Originally posted by exanda kane
You forget to mention that these theories are more intelligent than anything to have come out of George Lucas' mouth.

Yes! thumb up

Lucas supports a Unified Force Theory more with his films, even though he says he supports Dualistic Force Theory.

I made those terms up 13

Violent2Dope
If GL's idea of balance is getting rid of the dark side so there would only be light then he needs to get a dictionary or sumthin cause that's just wrong.

queeq
Yup... it's not matter of scales here... it's about not having anything that disrupts harmony. Dark Side disrupts harmony ergo, it causes disbalance.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by queeq
Yup... it's not matter of scales here... it's about not having anything that disrupts harmony. Dark Side disrupts harmony ergo, it causes disbalance. And GL still doesn't know the meaning of balance! big grin

Schecter
holy shit you mean some words have multiple meanings?
so...like...'balance' doesnt just mean 2 items on a scale having equal weight????


ZOMG!!1 *brain explodes*

yettoh
Originally posted by General G
laughing out loud

As well as Sidious was not trying in the duel with Mace, instead waiting for Mace. And yes, I have proof.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7636224 picture explains it all Sid's could of killed him there and then i think he meant to lose knowing ani would come and see mace windu with his saber down at Sid's throat but then again he saw sidious throwing lightning at mace but he was thinking of padme

dadudemon
Originally posted by queeq
Yup... it's not matter of scales here... it's about not having anything that disrupts harmony. Dark Side disrupts harmony ergo, it causes disbalance.


...or I could have just said that instead of that long ass post.

General G
Thank you! Someone actually looked at it!

Schecter
its a standoff ffs. happens in every duel in the history of cinema. of course it makes no sense that palps didnt just lunge forward, nor does mace's almost mocking 'come get me' stance with his arms extended outward have any logic in self defense. its a frikin movie

queeq
So I heard.

General G
It is a duel to the death though, why wouldn't Sidious have just lunged a short distance.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, even GL confirms, he said something like this, when Anakin kills the Emperor, he brought the Force, back to the balance.
Yep, and thus proving Yoda wrong about "A prophecy misread, could have been." in episode III. stick out tongue

General G
Yoda said "could" though, which means he was suggesting it, so he is only half wrong.

Violent2Dope
Let me tell you something about Yoda:there's two rules about him.
rule 1.Yoda is always right
rule 2.If Yoda is wrong, please refer to rule 1
Which basically means Yoda is always right, and never wrong.

General G
Hmm, so what he says is law?

Alliance
Yoda's a flaming green hypocrite.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General G
Hmm, so what he says is law? Yes.Originally posted by Alliance
Yoda's a flaming green hypocrite. Please refer to rule 2 and in turn refer to rule 1.

Alliance
I don't follow your damn rules.

Jaeh_JediPirate
I wonder why i tried to read all that.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Alliance
I don't follow your damn rules. These aren't my rules simple minded mortal, these are the rules God has layed out.

jollyjim311
Alliance, is your whole little rant about Jedi and Sith and how Mace Windu is not a benevolent individual you completely overlooked a very key element: The Force.

Mace Windu, as a Jedi could begin to forsee the events that would transpire through his inaction. Just look at what happened when the Empire was in power. Mace Windu, through the use of his Shatterpoint ability (referenced in the ROTS novel, making in completely valid) could see a way to nullify that future: through Sidious' death. He did nothing out of anger, he did it for the goodness of the galaxy. He didn't care about whatever political circumstances or penalties he might face.

He was morally straight, and violating the law when it is unjust is completely ethically acceptable.

Or, Would you stay loyal to England and fight against George Washington in the 1770's? Do you see anyone who was drafted and didn't fight for a course they don't believe in as a morally plagued individual? If it were the 1850's would you own slaves or label anyone who released slaves illegally as unethical? Would you tell Stormtroopers or Nazi MP's where Jews were hiding under Hitler's reign in Germany?

If not, then maybe you see my point. If so, then, I think your credibility may decrease a significant amount.

exanda kane
Your all overlooking a key fact here. Alliance's rants are hilarious.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
These aren't my rules simple minded mortal, these are the rules God has layed out.

All times are UTC -4 hours. The time now is 3:02 PM.

queeq
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Alliance, is your whole little rant about Jedi and Sith and how Mace Windu is not a benevolent individual you completely overlooked a very key element: The Force.

Mace Windu, as a Jedi could begin to forsee the events that would transpire through his inaction. Just look at what happened when the Empire was in power. Mace Windu, through the use of his Shatterpoint ability (referenced in the ROTS novel, making in completely valid) could see a way to nullify that future: through Sidious' death. He did nothing out of anger, he did it for the goodness of the galaxy. He didn't care about whatever political circumstances or penalties he might face.

He was morally straight, and violating the law when it is unjust is completely ethically acceptable.

Or, Would you stay loyal to England and fight against George Washington in the 1770's? Do you see anyone who was drafted and didn't fight for a course they don't believe in as a morally plagued individual? If it were the 1850's would you own slaves or label anyone who released slaves illegally as unethical? Would you tell Stormtroopers or Nazi MP's where Jews were hiding under Hitler's reign in Germany?

If not, then maybe you see my point. If so, then, I think your credibility may decrease a significant amount.

The good thing about a long retort like this is that may be get another Alliance rant. YEEHHAAAH!

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by ESB -1138
All times are UTC -4 hours. The time now is 3:02 PM. I will destroy you.

General G
Originally posted by queeq
The good thing about a long retort like this is that may be get another Alliance rant. YEEHHAAAH!

eek!

*gets popcorn*

queeq
*gets coke*

General G
*waits*

exanda kane
Originally posted by queeq
The good thing about a long retort like this is that may be get another Alliance rant. YEEHHAAAH!

laughing out loud

queeq
Now we all wait.

Count Makashi
When does it start, i didn't buy a ticket for nothing.

Violent2Dope
You all are actin like sumthin is about to happen but by now I think you should of realized that there will be no rant. In other words, you all bought your tickets for nothing.smile

General G
Ye of little faith.

Violent2Dope
Samuel L. Jackson created God whom he allowed to create existence.

General G
Prove it. Or as queeq would say: is it canon?

Alliance
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You all are actin like sumthin is about to happen but by now I think you should of realized that there will be no rant. In other words, you all bought your tickets for nothing.smile

There will to be a rant...I've already started. i'm just very busy this week and have little time except for when I'm running experiements...like now.

There's not much to rant about...so I'm making stuff up. 13

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General G
Prove it. Or as queeq would say: is it canon? Mortal this is not some comicbook or videogame, the events I spoke of are 100% true.

Alliance
EU!

Violent2Dope
FOOL! I SAID THIS IS NO MERE COMIC! SAMUEL L. JACKSON IS NO MERE MORTAL MAN! YOU CANNOT BEGIN TO COMPREHEND WHAT HE IS!

exanda kane
Nah, Sam Jackson is pretty mediocre.

Alliance
Queeq. Can I please shoot him?

queeq
Who? Sam Jackson?

Violent2Dope
HAHAHAHAHAHA! FOOL! YOU CANNOT DEFEAT JACKSON! JACKSON KNOWS EVERYTHING, JACKSON IS EVERYTHING!

General G
I doubt it.

Schecter
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
HAHAHAHAHAHA! FOOL! YOU CANNOT DEFEAT JACKSON! JACKSON KNOWS EVERYTHING, JACKSON IS EVERYTHING!

no...that would be connor macleod

General G
Originally posted by Schecter
no...that would be connor macleod
Originally posted by General G
I doubt it.

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
Who? Sam Jackson?

Gannondork.

Alliance

queeq
and Alliance SCORES!!!!


MORE! MORE! MORE GOOD PARAGRAPHS...

exanda kane

General G
Nice! Keep it going!

Violent2Dope

Count Makashi
I think Alliances hatred toward Mace Windu, has got nothing to do with him, trying to kill Sidious, but because he, decapitated, helpless Jango Fett, who was just minding his own business in the Geonosis Arena.

wildly chopping the head off anyone-thats from his post, its pretty obvious

General G
Not to mention he did it right in front of Jango's son.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General G
Not to mention he did it right in front of Jango's son. Which isn't very nice. sad

Schecter
Originally posted by Count Makashi
I think Alliances hatred toward Mace Windu, has got nothing to do with him, trying to kill Sidious, but because he, decapitated, helpless Jango Fett, who was just minding his own business in the Geonosis Arena.

wildly chopping the head off anyone-thats from his post, its pretty obvious

whats with the william shatneresque pauses?

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
MORE! MORE! MORE GOOD PARAGRAPHS...

I'll think this weekend, I kind of ran out of material and it got the point where I was bashing members instead of Mace. I didn't want to do it.

Maybe I'll do other Jedi.Originally posted by exanda kane
Legendary.

laughing smile

Thanks.

(Its also how I like my Halo and my eggs)Originally posted by Violent2Dope
And don't call me Ganondork b*tch.

Oh, but its so easy.Originally posted by Count Makashi
I think Alliances hatred toward Mace Windu, has got nothing to do with him, trying to kill Sidious, but because he, decapitated, helpless Jango Fett, who was just minding his own business in the Geonosis Arena.

wildly chopping the head off anyone-thats from his post, its pretty obvious

laughing out loudOriginally posted by General G
Not to mention he did it right in front of Jango's son.

Typical jedi intimidation tactics.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Alliance
Oh, but its so easy. So is killing babies, but I don't do it.

Alliance
Actually, killing babies is not easy considering teh amount of legal ramifications to the actions.

however, I rather like comparing you to babies.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Alliance
Actually, killing babies is not easy considering teh amount of legal ramifications to the actions.

however, I rather like comparing you to babies. What?

General G
laughing out loud

queeq
Alliance is warmin up for the death blow...

General G
It's getting intense.

Violent2Dope
Yo this is off topic but I just want to say RIP Chris Benoit. WWE fans will miss you.

queeq
Offf topic??? Alliance ranting about Windu? NEVER!

General G
I am uh..pretty sure he was referring to the Chris Benoit thing.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General G
I am uh..pretty sure he was referring to the Chris Benoit thing. Yeah. That does suck tho.

queeq
Ah... okay. Well... okay.

Count Makashi
Who is Chris Benoit ?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Who is Chris Benoit ? Was a Pro Wrestler.

Count Makashi
Wrestling is fake.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Wrestling is fake. I know and I also don't care. The term "fake" is a bit crude tho.

Count Makashi
Wrestling is a joke, i cant believe, people are watching it.

Schecter
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Wrestling is fake.

its staged, not fake.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Wrestling is a joke, i cant believe, people are watching it. Just because it's staged does not mean that it takes little skill to be a wrestler.

Count Makashi
OK, thats true.

General G
Now you see things from a new perspective.

queeq
We are so enlightened now, thanks to your teachings, G.

Violent2Dope
G's teachings? I'M THE ONE THAT TOLD HIM THAT DESPITE IT BEING STAGED THEY ARE SKILLED! WTF DID G DO!? HE SAID,"Now you see things from a new perspective.", AND THAT'S IT!!!!!mad

General G
Originally posted by queeq
We are so enlightened now, thanks to your teachings, G.

You are welcome.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>