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Pre-retcon Beyonder was beyond even the Living Tribunal. The Marvel Brother,as seen in the Marvel and DC crossover, was well beyond the LT in power. In fact, it was mentioned that the Marvel and DC Brothers did not even notice the power of the Tribunal.

Beyonder has more on panel feats...but in terms of power...who would be most likely to win this fight?

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
Pre-retcon Beyonder was beyond even the Living Tribunal. The Marvel Brother,as seen in the Marvel and DC crossover, was well beyond the LT in power. In fact, it was mentioned that the Marvel and DC Brothers did not even notice the power of the Tribunal.

Beyonder has more on panel feats...but in terms of power...who would be most likely to win this fight?

Marvel Brother

Hopefully, it will stay open

I seem to remember this thread or something very close to it turning into a very serious debate... I honestly don't know.

Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
I seem to remember this thread or something very close to it turning into a very serious debate... I honestly don't know.

I did a thread with The Brothers/LT/Merlyn vs GEB

Beyonder FTW.


The Brothers were momentarily owned by the LT and Spectre,

during which the Brothers were nearly obliterated by Spectre and the LT.

The LT didn't even dare try to mess with the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder FTW.


The Brothers were momentarily owned by the LT and Spectre,

during which the Brothers were nearly obliterated by Spectre and the LT.

The LT didn't even dare try to mess with the Beyonder.

Mr. Master, I seem to remember an argument between you and Galan about whether or not the Brothers were actually everything in the Multiverse, and the Beyonder was more than the multiverse, or an infinate number of multiverses?

I admit that when it comes to these characters I am well out of my league.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder FTW.


The Brothers were momentarily owned by the LT and Spectre,

during which the Brothers were nearly obliterated by Spectre and the LT.

The LT didn't even dare try to mess with the Beyonder.

Would u agree with me, the Beyonder now is an ant compared to Tribunal

Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Mr. Master, I seem to remember an argument between you and Galan about whether or not the Brothers were actually everything in the Multiverse, and the Beyonder was more than the multiverse, or an infinate number of multiverses?

The problem with the Brothers is that they were shoved into the Marvel Cosmology
with no regards for continuity, Marvel and DC crossovers always make disasters,

just look at the JLA/Avengers = pathetic.


The Brothers were supposed to be the embodiments of DC and Marvel,
(since when, from where ... who?)

yet they were a single Multiverse each, (Marvel is an Omniverse)

this story took place in Marvel and DC,

yet NO Cosmics or divine beings existed except for the LT and Spectre,

these Brothers were "Supreme"

yet the LT and Spectre Warped the heck out of them by Merging them into One Universe,

this nearly literally obliterated the Brothers,
luckily Access helped the LT and Spectre separate them.



TOAA and I'm sure the Presence would NEVER get owned by anyone,

not even for a pico-second.

Those are the real Supreme Beings.



DC vs Marvel was such garbage,

that exactly 3 Months later they were retconned by Marvel into Two Megaverses,
that the LT manipulates in one hand.

Originally posted by guy222
Would u agree with me, the Beyonder now is an ant compared to Tribunal

Now?

He's been an ant since his first retcon back in 89-90

Originally posted by Mr Master
Now?

He's been an ant since his first retcon back in 89-90

4 retcons

I will say more to follow

Thanks Mr. Master, always a fountain of knowledge.

I remember learning a lot from the last debate also.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The problem with the Brothers is that they were shoved into the Marvel Cosmology
with no regards for continuity, Marvel and DC crossovers always make disasters,

just look at the JLA/Avengers = pathetic.
.

JLA avengers didn't seem to throw anything off in the cosmic hierarchy that I can remember.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The problem with the Brothers is that they were shoved into the Marvel Cosmology
with no regards for continuity, Marvel and DC crossovers always make disasters,

just look at the JLA/Avengers = pathetic.


people written out of character, only thing that was good about the crossover was the art from George Perez.

i say brother would win, didnt dr doom steal beyonders power.

Brothers easiley it was stated that the Spectre and the Living Tribunal couldent do anything to stop them. As when they fought the Living Tribunal and Spectre were beneath their notecing.

They also represented the entire comapanies of Marvel and DC.

Also as supreme being that actually made the creation in the fist place, it's obvious that they represented both the supreme beings of DC and Marvel, none is above them.

Explanation, the Brothers thought that they fused.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9721/bro9yv2fc9.th.jpg

"The Brothers are settiling the contest their own way..."
"...By comming together, fusing all they are so that they can co-exist as one unified being."

At this point they didn't have a idea of that they were forced together, but they actually wanted to fuse.

Even before they did both the Spectre and the Living Tribunal confirmed that there were nothing they could do to stop it.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3580/bro1uh2la8.th.jpghttp://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8316/bro2xa7ct4.th.jpg

"...To reality grasp it."

Spectre -- "What transpires here? The universe itself ripples with disturbance. I sense the workings of forces I have never before encountered, power which make me inconsequential by comparasion. Events are being set in motion..."
"...That not even the Spectre can stop"

Living Tribunal -- "The cosmic balance tilts..." "...And for the first time, I cannot right it. But what could exist that is mighty enough to thwart the will of the..." "Of the Living Tribunal"

As they confirmed they cannot stop these beings. Two beings of which powers dwarfed everything they've known in comperasion.
And both of them knew of the TOAA/Presence.
Yet they had never felt this kind of power.

And it was not the Living Tribunal and the Spectre's power which was used against the Brothers, it was the Brothers own power that were causing them to fuse, how? -- Access have tapped into their powers and gave that access to the two cosmic Guardians so that they could merge them so that they wouldent destroy all of Marvel/DC.

The so called "ownage" was the Brothers powers used against them, if you will you could say TOAA's/Presence's own power used against him.

Since this is PRE-Retcon beyonder and PRE retcon brother,i see no need to mention the retcon versions at all

Pre-retcon Brother for the win

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Brothers easiley it was stated that the Spectre and the Living Tribunal couldent do anything to stop them. As when they fought the Living Tribunal and Spectre were beneath their notecing.

They also represented the entire comapanies of Marvel and DC.

Also as supreme being that actually made the creation in the fist place, it's obvious that they represented both the supreme beings of DC and Marvel, none is above them.

The Brothers got owned momentarily by the LT and Spectre.

The LT and Spectre could never own TOAA and the Presence.

That's the typical DC/Marvel crossover garbage.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Explanation, the Brothers thought that they fused.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9721/bro9yv2fc9.th.jpg

"The Brothers are settiling the contest their own way..."
"...By comming together, fusing all they are so that they can co-exist as one unified being."

At this point they didn't have a idea of that they were forced together, but they actually wanted to fuse.

Where is it stated the Brothers "wanted to fuse?"

Cause I don't know if you know this but,

that's Access telling the story.

The same guy who in the next issue said he was WRONG!

That the merger was NOT the doing of the Brothers but of the LT and Spectre.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Even before they did both the Spectre and the Living Tribunal confirmed that there were nothing they could do to stop it.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3580/bro1uh2la8.th.jpghttp://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8316/bro2xa7ct4.th.jpg

"...To reality grasp it."

Spectre -- "What transpires here? The universe itself ripples with disturbance. I sense the workings of forces I have never before encountered, power which make me inconsequential by comparasion. Events are being set in motion..."
"...That not even the Spectre can stop"

Living Tribunal -- "The cosmic balance tilts..." "...And for the first time, I cannot right it. But what could exist that is mighty enough to thwart the will of the..." "Of the Living Tribunal"

As they confirmed they cannot stop these beings. Two beings of which powers dwarfed everything they've known in comperasion.
And both of them knew of the TOAA/Presence.
Yet they had never felt this kind of power.

And this is why this just typical DC/Marvel crossover garbage.

Those scenes are depicted and then the Brothers get owned.

Senseless I know.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And it was not the Living Tribunal and the Spectre's power which was used against the Brothers, it was the Brothers own power that were causing them to fuse, how? -- Access have tapped into their powers and gave that access to the two cosmic Guardians so that they could merge them so that they wouldent destroy all of Marvel/DC.

Sorry T, but you're completely wrong on this one.

Access had absolutely nothing to do with the merger of the Brothers.

The LT and Spectre did that on their own.


Access did help the LT and Spectre separate the Brothers safely,
before both Brothers were obliterated.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The so called "ownage" was the Brothers powers used against them,

if you will you could say TOAA's/Presence's own power used against him.

Actually this is incorrect.


This is the way it happened On Panel.






ON PANEL,

LT and Spectre,

completely Remaking the Totality of the PRE-Retcon Brothers:




"The Brothers are MERGING Realities, combining Universes"
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1752/one262ai.th.jpg

(Actually we find out in the Next Issue,

that the Living Tribunal and Spectre were the ones that MERGED the TWO Universes BY FORCE!)







When LT and Spectre MERGED the TWO Universes/Brothers, (by Force)

the Brothers became ONE Universe called the Amalgam Universe

(basically a Mixture of BOTH)

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2343/br1bn2.th.jpg








"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2453/br2sj1.th.jpg
"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"








"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre,

are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER" (by Force)

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6881/br3vf3.th.jpg
"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Like I said,

the LT and Spectre MERGED the Brothers on thier own, with their own power:



http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1307/dcvsmarvel1of2.th.jpg

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"


"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,


it was NOT"


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7877/dcvsmarvel2au6.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/731/b1ll3.th.jpg

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"






When DID it LOOK like the Universes would be Obliterated?


So we can figure out whether it was just singular Universes or the Brothers themselves.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5885/22723872nt9.th.jpg

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8691/21516398rs6.th.jpg

This is the moment,

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"



I think we can agree "The Universes" were the Brothers ey?






Where is this place "where NO Aspect of the Brothers exists?"

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8396/50880268al7.th.jpg

And there is the "BUM, that helped him Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN,

when the Universes were about to be Obliterated.

When did this happen?


When the Brothers were MERGED by LT & Spectre, it's all clear On Panel.

The Living Tribunal and Spectre nearly Obliterated the Brothers:





"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated"

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/731/b1ll3.th.jpg

"We're still here indicates our Universes coexisting rather than smashed together"







LT and Spectre even say,

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6078/b2ze1.th.jpg

The Universes are momentarily safe"

"It is nothing short of miraculous they exist at all"






Catch LT and Spectre trying to do this to TOAA or the Presence

Who ever these Brothers were supposed to be, they sure weren't "Supreme."

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6663/bro13cj6pg4.th.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8154/222wj0.jpg

Access took the power from aspects of the Brothers and gave it to the Living Tribunal and Spectre.

The universe inbetween which were no aspect of the Brothers existed was the Amalgam Universe.
- As the Red was the supreme being and everything in Marvel.
And the Blue supreme in DC.

To show that neither company have full control over the Amalgam comic's.

It wasent only the cosmic guardian's power.

You've misunderstood.

The separation of the Brothers were supose to unleash forces tearing all creation asunder, but since Access grated them access to a portion of the Brothers' power the creation managed to stay intact.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6663/bro13cj6pg4.th.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8154/222wj0.jpg

Access took the power from aspects of the Brothers and gave it to the Living Tribunal and Spectre.

The universe inbetween which were no aspect of the Brothers existed was the Amalgam Universe.
- As the Red was the supreme being and everything in Marvel.
And the Blue supreme in DC.

To show that neither company have full control over the Amalgam comic's.

It wasent only the cosmic guardian's power.

That was to separate the Brothers AFTER they were MERGED by the LT and Spectre.


I already stated that.




http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1307/dcvsmarvel1of2.th.jpg

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"


"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,


it was NOT"


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7877/dcvsmarvel2au6.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."

I think we can agree "The Universes" were the Brothers ey?

Actually the Brothers finaly destroyed everything ... Yet they lived on and recreated everything due to the heroicness of Batman can Cap.
So the universes were destroyed and the Brothers lived on to recreate them.

The Brothers' power exteends far beyond only the universes.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You've misunderstood.

The separation of the Brothers were supose to unleash forces tearing all creation asunder, but since Access grated them access to a portion of the Brothers' power the creation managed to stay intact.

I disagree.


Access helped the LT and Spectre separate the Brothers

because the merger was going to obliterate the Brothers:



http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/731/b1ll3.th.jpg

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Actually the Brothers finaly destroyed everything ... Yet they lived on and recreated everything due to the heroicness of Batman can Cap.
So the universes were destroyed and the Brothers lived on to recreate them.

What are you talking about?

I studied this arc thoroughly,

the Brothers were never destroyed in the end,

the Brothers clashed and then decided to stop fighting because of whatever cheesy reason.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Brothers' power exteends far beyond only the universes.

Absolutely,

they're a Megaverse each, in Marvel now.

The bum, Access future self was the one that helped the LT and Sepc to merge them.
And never was it said that the Brothers struggled or was against it, they were caught up in their own battle and had other things to think about.

But if the Brothers were as weak as you say, this would never had happen.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7962/bro18ln6jx9.th.jpg

- Yes Spec and Trib like flies that are beneath the Brothers notecing ... So much for their power ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
What are you talking about?

I studied this arc thoroughly,

the Brothers were never destroyed in the end,

the Brothers clashed and then decided to stop fighting because of whatever cheesy reason.


http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3433/bro20ni1qk9.th.jpg

End of all creation ... (Universes) that didn't mean the Brothers' died.

They were far beyond their creations MU and DCU.

It was later however restored, by the Brothers of course.


You know that with the universes they refere to DCU and MU, all of DC and Marvel ...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The bum, Access future self was the one that helped the LT and Sepc to merge them.

So basically you're going to keep claiming this,

even though On Panel the LT and Spectre merged them on their own?

(this will cause circles)


http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1307/dcvsmarvel1of2.th.jpg

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"


"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,


it was NOT"


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7877/dcvsmarvel2au6.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And never was it said that the Brothers struggled or was against it, they were caught up in their own battle and had other things to think about.

That's not mentioned anywhere on panel,

I think your speculating as to what was going on in the Brothers' mind.


They were Merged,

then we find out who merged them,

it was Spectre and the LT, period.

This merger nearly obliterated the Brothers,

it's as simple as that.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But if the Brothers were as weak as you say, this would never had happen.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7962/bro18ln6jx9.th.jpg

- Yes Spec and Trib like flies that are beneath the Brothers notecing ... So much for their power ...

I never said the Brothers were weak.

Did you see me say that? no2


But the Brothers were OWNED by the LT and Spectre,

and the Brothers were nearly obliterated by the LT and Spectre.

This is a fact, that can't be debated.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.


Access helped the LT and Spectre separate the Brothers

because the merger was going to obliterate the Brothers:





"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"
Access have the power to enter different timelines and create dimensional ports from to all universes and realities in all time.

The bum, is his future self.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3433/bro20ni1qk9.th.jpg

End of all creation ... (Universes) that didn't mean the Brothers' died.

They were far beyond their creations MU and DCU.

It was later however restored, by the Brothers of course.

No where in that scan does it say "end of all creation"

Or end of anything.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You know that with the universes they refere to DCU and MU, all of DC and Marvel ...

Yes I know that,

the LT and Spectre nearly obliterated them both.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Access have the power to enter different timelines and create dimensional ports from to all universes and realities in all time.

The bum, is his future self.

What does that have to do with the fact that Access,

NEVER helped the LT and Spectre merge the Brothers?


The LT and Spectre MERGED the Brothers on their own,

the LT and Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers on panel.

pre-retcon Brothers for the win.

(here we go again)

By the way charlemagne9746 why couldn't you go back and read the Ultimator vs Beyonder ore brothers ore something like that the result that you will get from this thread will be exactly the same.

My and Thanos_THOTU believing the Brothers would win and Mr Master Saying that they wouldn't win. End of story.

Originally posted by Utrigita
pre-retcon Brothers for the win.

(here we go again)

By the way charlemagne9746 why couldn't you go back and read the Ultimator vs Beyonder ore brothers ore something like that the result that you will get from this thread will be exactly the same.

My and Thanos_THOTU believing the Brothers would win and Mr Master Saying that they wouldn't win. End of story.


I can't get the search to work on my end...so, I knew nothing about the other thread....but, hey...it's a good debate anyway..lol.


Mr. Master...on your Marvel cosmic heirarchy...if you were to place PRE-Retcon Marvel....where would he be on your list. I know you have pre-retcon Beyonder at number 2. So, would you place him at three, but I think you have the Tribunal at number 3.

so, 2.5..lol

One more scan, you said that just because the universe would be destroyed when they were to separate you said the Brothers would die ... Wrong.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5602/bro5vc5li6.th.jpg

"Once before they came together in battle, unleashing forces that ENDED and BEGAN ALL CREATION over again."

So basicly all creation was destroyed yet they lived on ...

They were also everything, the begining, the end etc.

In other words they were TOAA/Presence, or they were above them.
As the released powers never witnessed before.

Easiley rank 0 in the hierarchy.

the brothers were just some dumb thing added by some author who wanted the last say on "the most powerful character." the brothers are below "God." While the brothers seem relatively omnipotent they are not God. God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. The One Above All is God in Marvel and the Prescense is God in DC. Since at the time DC and Marvel didn't think of doing stupid crossovers, basically while acknowledging The One Above All, DC doesn't exist since. When acknowldeging the Presence, Marvel doesn't exist. If you want to acknowledge both at the same time then they would have to be the same identity since there is only one omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence God.

For those who don't know what omniprescence means, it means the ability to be present anywhere at any time. If you read above, they found a place where the brothers didn't exist. DA DING! below God.
TOAA/Presence=God and when acknowledging both they have to be the same identity. comic book writers aren't smart enough to make logical sense of many things (for example LT having a humanlike shape- they wouldn't be able to draw what the LT looked like if it were really that powerful).
anyways this message is hella long. enough said

Originally posted by tooa/presence
the brothers were just some dumb thing added by some author who wanted the last say on "the most powerful character." the brothers are below "God." While the brothers seem relatively omnipotent they are not God. God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. The One Above All is God in Marvel and the Prescense is God in DC. Since at the time DC and Marvel didn't think of doing stupid crossovers, basically while acknowledging The One Above All, DC doesn't exist since. When acknowldeging the Presence, Marvel doesn't exist. If you want to acknowledge both at the same time then they would have to be the same identity since there is only one omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence God.

For those who don't know what omniprescence means, it means the ability to be present anywhere at any time. If you read above, they found a place where the brothers didn't exist. DA DING! below God.
TOAA/Presence=God and when acknowledging both they have to be the same identity. comic book writers aren't smart enough to make logical sense of many things (for example LT having a humanlike shape- they wouldn't be able to draw what the LT looked like if it were really that powerful).
anyways this message is hella long. enough said

Not correct then TOAA and the Presence wouldn't be supreme because none of them exist in each other respective universes, so by you logic none in comic would be truly supreme.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
the brothers were just some dumb thing added by some author who wanted the last say on "the most powerful character." the brothers are below "God." While the brothers seem relatively omnipotent they are not God. God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. The One Above All is God in Marvel and the Prescense is God in DC. Since at the time DC and Marvel didn't think of doing stupid crossovers, basically while acknowledging The One Above All, DC doesn't exist since. When acknowldeging the Presence, Marvel doesn't exist. If you want to acknowledge both at the same time then they would have to be the same identity since there is only one omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence God.

For those who don't know what omniprescence means, it means the ability to be present anywhere at any time. If you read above, they found a place where the brothers didn't exist. DA DING! below God.
TOAA/Presence=God and when acknowledging both they have to be the same identity. comic book writers aren't smart enough to make logical sense of many things (for example LT having a humanlike shape- they wouldn't be able to draw what the LT looked like if it were really that powerful).
anyways this message is hella long. enough said
It has been confirmed by marvel that The-One-Above-All is the the editor in chef, which currently is Quasada.
Presence in DC appeared in Spectre volume #3 issue #61, in "The face of God" and he didn't represent a editor/writer (for as much as we know)

So both have appeared.

Now the Brothers were supose to represent the two companies, Marvel and DC, they chose a couple of famous heroes (Batman, Wolverine, Lobo, Superman, Hulk and so forth) to fight and see which one was the greater one.
That was the comapnies chosen, in the comic illustrated to be the Brothers' chosen.

It was even confirmed in the DC vs. Marvel Preview 1995, that the Brothers were to represent the entire company, and that they would be supreme.

Because befpre that it had been officially delcared that the "One-Above-All" is Marvel itself, not the Marvel universe, but everything the company is.

And the Brothers were to represent the companies.

dr doom aint taking out marvel brother so marvel brother wins.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Not correct then TOAA and the Presence wouldn't be supreme because none of them exist in each other respective universes, so by you logic none in comic would be truly supreme.

Ya your kinda right because DC and Marvel crossedover to try and make money. But technically TOAA and the Presence (Abrahamic God of DC) were both supreme in their respective companies since both were Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent. Obviously you can't have two Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent Gods but the companies crossedover with disregard to everything but making money. So they made the dumb brothers who were suppose to represent each company, but are clearly weaker since they are not even Omnipresent. I guess you can't really blame them since they are not scientists, but rather normal people trying to make money. So unless the two companies agree on letting TOAA and the Presence being the same identity, none truly would be supreme and they both really should not exist together and all because of this brothers garbage.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
It has been confirmed by marvel that The-One-Above-All is the the editor in chef, which currently is Quasada.
Presence in DC appeared in Spectre volume #3 issue #61, in "The face of God" and he didn't represent a editor/writer (for as much as we know)

So both have appeared.

Now the Brothers were supose to represent the two companies, Marvel and DC, they chose a couple of famous heroes (Batman, Wolverine, Lobo, Superman, Hulk and so forth) to fight and see which one was the greater one.
That was the comapnies chosen, in the comic illustrated to be the Brothers' chosen.

It was even confirmed in the DC vs. Marvel Preview 1995, that the Brothers were to represent the entire company, and that they would be supreme.

Because befpre that it had been officially delcared that the "One-Above-All" is Marvel itself, not the Marvel universe, but everything the company is.

And the Brothers were to represent the companies.

No they didn't both appear. The Living Tribunal has only mentioned the One Above All.

The Brothers only represent the companies. They aren't the companies. I'll say it again- the brothers are not even omnipresent. TOAA/Presence are omnipresent (at least thats what the comic book writers put, but they are so stupid that they act like they forgot they even created TOAA/Presence and start talking about this crossover garbage)

Originally posted by tooa/presence
No they didn't both appear. The Living Tribunal has only mentioned the One Above All.
"God" appeared in a F4 issue as Jack Kirby


Well, you can hardly over come representation, as The-One-Above-All is represented by the editor in chef.


Ok, so everything in creation being a fraction of them has nothing to do with it? - Your logic fails.


But you're overlooking these fact's.

1. The Living Tribunal knows the one above all, yet the Brothers' power was stated to be the most powerful he ever witnessed.

2. They were supreme, supreme as there are no one above them.

3. They represented the entire company, you can't get higher than that, if an author want to be in a comic he has to make a character that represent him, he cannot literally be in the comic himself.

4. I'd say that the PR Brothers would triumph TOAA and the Presence, why?
- Because the Presence is but another character, and TOAA is the editor in chef.
The entire staff/company = Writers, coloers etc. and the editor >> just the editor

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Ya your kinda right because DC and Marvel crossedover to try and make money. But technically TOAA and the Presence (Abrahamic God of DC) were both supreme in their respective companies since both were Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent.
True to an extent.


Actually, there are levels of omnipotence and infinte power.
The first level of true infinte power is possessed by the Cube Beings - They have also been confirmed by the Living Tribunal to be Omnipotent.

The second level (infinitely more) is possessed by the Celestial's and so forth.

In fictions there is always such thing as infinity + 1, I can always make a more powerful character.


Again, the Brothers were omnipresent as it was stated that every thing in creation was but a fractions.
The Brothers were everything and everything were the Brothers.

But then again, omnipesence has nothing to do with power, the Living Tribunal is also omnipresent but would be MURDERED by PR Beyonder


They are not the same character accept it, both have been showed at panel.
And I like the Brothers' better, since they actually looked like cosmic God's.
Not like an old human (Presence) --seriously why would God creator of an Omniverse and a infinite amount of races prefere humans?

Or Marvel's God, Jack Kirby -- Sadly I didn't like that concept.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
"God" appeared in a F4 issue as Jack Kirby


Well, you can hardly over come representation, as The-One-Above-All is represented by the editor in chef.


Ok, so everything in creation being a fraction of them has nothing to do with it? - Your logic fails.


But you're overlooking these fact's.

1. The Living Tribunal knows the one above all, yet the Brothers' power was stated to be the most powerful he ever witnessed.

2. They were supreme, supreme as there are no one above them.

3. They represented the entire company, you can't get higher than that, if an author want to be in a comic he has to make a character that represent him, he cannot literally be in the comic himself.

4. I'd say that the PR Brothers would triumph TOAA and the Presence, why?
- Because the Presence is but another character, and TOAA is the editor in chef.
The entire staff/company = Writers, coloers etc. and the editor >> just the editor





"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"
"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"

meaning not omnipresent...your logic fails

"The Living Tribunal knows the one above all, yet the Brothers' power was stated to be the most powerful he ever witnessed."
One example when the comic book writer's logic fails.

And where did you get TOAA is the editor in cheif?
It has been officially delcared that the "One-Above-All" is Marvel itself, not the Marvel universe, but everything the company is, not just a representation of the editor in cheif.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"
"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"

meaning not omnipresent...your logic fails
That was the Amalgam universe also created by the Brothers, but they werent a part of it since they didn't accept co-existation, if they did however that would be the link between them and they would both be omnipresent in it--like they did in the end.
The Red was all of Marvel, omnipresent there--just like The-One-Above-All
The Blue all of DC and omnipresent there--Just like the Presence


Your point being? -- If the writers say so, then it is fact.
They were supreme, by fact.
They unleashed the greatest power the Spectre and the Living Tribunal ever witnessed--FACT accept it.


I see you've vissited Wikipedia, but you have to separate the crap that is written there from fact which is written in the comic's.

Check out Mr Masters hierarchy in the comic book section for the scans.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
"God" appeared in a F4 issue as Jack Kirby


Well, you can hardly over come representation, as The-One-Above-All is represented by the editor in chef.


Ok, so everything in creation being a fraction of them has nothing to do with it? - Your logic fails.


But you're overlooking these fact's.

1. The Living Tribunal knows the one above all, yet the Brothers' power was stated to be the most powerful he ever witnessed.

2. They were supreme, supreme as there are no one above them.

3. They represented the entire company, you can't get higher than that, if an author want to be in a comic he has to make a character that represent him, he cannot literally be in the comic himself.

4. I'd say that the PR Brothers would triumph TOAA and the Presence, why?
- Because the Presence is but another character, and TOAA is the editor in chef.
The entire staff/company = Writers, coloers etc. and the editor >> just the editor

The Presence is not but another character and TOAA is not the editor in cheif. The Presence is the representation of the Abrahamic God. Do you even know what that means? It means that he is the representation of God Almighty. He is the Supreme Being of the DC Comics Universe, Supreme being NOTHING is above HIM. TOAA is the same for Marvel thats why they should have never crossed.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
That was the Amalgam universe also created by the Brothers, but they werent a part of it since they didn't accept co-existation, if they did however that would be the link between them and they would both be omnipresent in it--like they did in the end.
The Red was all of Marvel, omnipresent there--just like The-One-Above-All
The Blue all of DC and omnipresent there--Just like the Presence


Your point being? -- If the writers say so, then it is fact.
They were supreme, by fact.
They unleashed the greatest power the Spectre and the Living Tribunal ever witnessed--FACT accept it.


I see you've vissited Wikipedia, but you have to separate the crap that is written there from fact which is written in the comic's.

Check out Mr Masters hierarchy in the comic book section for the scans.
J
ust because they unleashed the greatest power the Spectre and the Living Tribunal ever witnessed doesn't mean they were the most powerful characters. For all we know the Living Tribunal may have never seen TOAA unleash power, just because LT knows TOAA doesn't mean LT has seen TOAA unleash power. Same goes for the Spectre.

The Amalgam universe was created by the Living Tribunal and the Spectre, not the brothers.
"He had thought the merging was the doing of the brothers, it was not."

Originally posted by tooa/presence J
ust because they unleashed the greatest power the Spectre and the Living Tribunal ever witnessed doesn't mean they were the most powerful characters. For all we know the Living Tribunal may have never seen TOAA unleash power, just because LT knows TOAA doesn't mean LT has seen TOAA unleash power. Same goes for the Spectre.
Are you serious? -- The Living Tribunal is the only one who knows The-One-Above-All he also know the extent of his power as he explained it to Adam Warlock wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, and the Spectre is an aspect of God, sureley he know his greater self.

But it didn't actually say that the was the most powerful forces they witnessed.
(Yeah I was just toying with you)
What it actually said was -- Well you can read for yourself.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7914/bro15qz2wj8.th.jpghttp://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5086/bro16bi3dx3.th.jpg

"Power is unleashed which NONE have ever witnessed..."

Not the Spectre, not the Living Tribunal, not the Source/Hand/Voice, not the readers, not the editors, not even TOAA and the Presence has witnessed.


No, it was the unision that created it, the Living Tribunal and Spectre's own power were beneath the Brothers' notecing, they were nothing to them, Access certainly had something to do with the unision, as he could tap in even to their power, he is the chosen of the unision of the Brothers.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Ya your kinda right because DC and Marvel crossedover to try and make money. But technically TOAA and the Presence (Abrahamic God of DC) were both supreme in their respective companies since both were Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent. Obviously you can't have two Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent Gods but the companies crossedover with disregard to everything but making money. So they made the dumb brothers who were suppose to represent each company, but are clearly weaker since they are not even Omnipresent. I guess you can't really blame them since they are not scientists, but rather normal people trying to make money. So unless the two companies agree on letting TOAA and the Presence being the same identity, none truly would be supreme and they both really should not exist together and all because of this brothers garbage.

It is true that the Marvel and DC's crossover pretty much defied anything we have ever seen in the cosmic. Never the Less A problem again In your logic would be that then the TOAA and Presence would no longer be omnipresence because if acess arrived a place where the brothers didn't exist then and the brothers is representing each company then logic would implicate that in that crossover there was no supreme beings since there was a place where neither company was present.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It is true that the Marvel and DC's crossover pretty much defied anything we have ever seen in the cosmic. Never the Less A problem again In your logic would be that then the TOAA and Presence would no longer be omnipresence because if acess arrived a place where the brothers didn't exist then and the brothers is representing each company then logic would implicate that in that crossover there was no supreme beings since there was a place where neither company was present.

lol that was the fault of both the companies. They shouldn't list TOAA and the presence as omnipresent and then add something stupid like that. they just want to keep making a stronger character but they should stop cuz they end up making many flaws

Originally posted by tooa/presence
lol that was the fault of both the companies. They shouldn't list TOAA and the presence as omnipresent and then add something stupid like that. they just want to keep making a stronger character but they should stop cuz they end up making many flaws
Who are you to say what they should and should not do?
I thought the Amalgam comics were a genius move, imagine the power of the fused being, Blue and Red Brother, TOAA and Presence (if you like) as one.

a little like the great beast and the light fusing together in DC???

And you must admit Thanos_THOTU that it wasn't flawless doesn't say it didn't was good because it was but flawless ... That comic doesn't exist yet I think.

This thread is full of funny claims.

I'm just gonna let cats live.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This thread is full of funny claims.

I'm just gonna let cats live.

From who I wonder ...

"Who are you to say what they should and should not do?
I thought the Amalgam comics were a genius move, imagine the power of the fused being, Blue and Red Brother, TOAA and Presence (if you like) as one."

I'm saying they should make sense of their comics. If you're gonna say a character is omnipresent, then the character should be omnipresent.

Just throwin this in here. I remember the part where Lucifer was moving the moon and the Spectre came along and asked him what he thought he was doing, Luci said to bug off and Spectre didn't think twice and left. THAT is a hell of alot more impressive then Spectre trying to stop the Brothers from fighting..

Originally posted by kevdude
Just throwin this in here. I remember the part where Lucifer was moving the moon and the Spectre came along and asked him what he thought he was doing, Luci said to bug off and Spectre didn't think twice and left. THAT is a hell of alot more impressive then Spectre trying to stop the Brothers from fighting.. This?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5445/spectre19975721yo1.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7435/spectre19975722so1.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
This?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5445/spectre19975721yo1.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7435/spectre19975722so1.jpg

Nope, I believe thats the 2nd time Lucifer told him to go away and not to bother him

Originally posted by kevdude
Nope, I believe thats the 2nd time Lucifer told him to go away and not to bother him
Yes... Very impressive especially the part were Lucifer moves his chair out of the Spectre's shadow ...
And why would Spectre want to be him up vice versa, it wasent like he teared up creation.
I remember that Michael though took on the Spectre and actually fought him, as the Brothers' didn't notice them.

And even in the Face of God, Spectre charged and attacked the Presence. - Touché?

Originally posted by tooa/presence
I'm saying they should make sense of their comics. If you're gonna say a character is omnipresent, then the character should be omnipresent.
But omniscience and omnipresence has nothing to do with power actually.
And the Blue was Omniscient and Omnipresent in DC, only DC.
As the Red was Omniscient and Omnipresent in Marvel, only Marvel.


With the exception that this was all of Marvel and DC, not just two aspects of DC.


Even the http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/brothers.htm, site approved by Marvel, says.
"No Matter how big you are, in the comic books, you will always be embodied by something. This story used that same plot device. The whole thing with the Brothers was very weird, but one part was quite touching, as in the picture to the left."

I cannot say it was flawless no, but omnipotent stories rarely are, not let me correct that, never are.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This thread is full of funny claims.

I'm just gonna let cats live. I was thinking the same thing... in different words of course.

"But omniscience and omnipresence has nothing to do with power actually."

Omniscience has nothing to do with power? Are you retarded? You can be the most powerful thing in the ever, but if you are not able to comprehend your abilities, you become essentially powerless.

"And the Blue was Omniscient and Omnipresent in DC, only DC.
As the Red was Omniscient and Omnipresent in Marvel, only Marvel."

That's like saying something is omnipresent in one room, only one room. It can't be omnipresent in just one room. When something is omnipresnt, it is everywhere. Just because it is a comic book doesn't mean you can alter the meaning of a word.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Omniscience has nothing to do with power? Are you retarded? You can be the most powerful thing in the ever, but if you are not able to comprehend your abilities, you become essentially powerless.
Not really you don't have to be a genius to use all you physical strength (or as much of it as you can)
A omnipotent being can think everyone out of existance (if their level of omnipotence is higher than the one it's used at)
It doesnt have to comperhend the mechanics behind it.
--And you forgot explaining omnipresence.


Well, Presence is not omnipresent in Marvel and will never be.
So Presence is only one with everything in the "DC room".

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Not really you don't have to be a genius to use all you physical strength (or as much of it as you can)
A omnipotent being can think everyone out of existance (if their level of omnipotence is higher than the one it's used at)
It doesnt have to comperhend the mechanics behind it.
--And you forgot explaining omnipresence.


Well, Presence is not omnipresent in Marvel and will never be.
So Presence is only one with everything in the "DC room".


That is the problem with crossovers....especially concerning "supposedly" omnipotent beings. God is supposed to be omnipresent...yet there is a limit if the DC God shows up in a crossover comic. The DC God, or the Presence, can not be omnipresent in the Marvel Universe because He is not representative of Marvel Comics.

The same with TOAA.

So, how could two omnipresent beings exist in the same place at the same time? I don't think it is possible, IMO. So, it would only be CIS to even have Supreme Beings in a crossover....because Omnipresence would have to be eliminated in a battle scenario.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
That is the problem with crossovers....especially concerning "supposedly" omnipotent beings. God is supposed to be omnipresent...yet there is a limit if the DC God shows up in a crossover comic. The DC God, or the Presence, can not be omnipresent in the Marvel Universe because He is not representative of Marvel Comics.

The same with TOAA.

So, how could two omnipresent beings exist in the same place at the same time? I don't think it is possible, IMO. So, it would only be CIS to even have Supreme Beings in a crossover....because Omnipresence would have to be eliminated in a battle scenario.
Short answer, think of it in 6d, it's the same solution as for how can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it, 6d is beyond our comperasion.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
That is the problem with crossovers....especially concerning "supposedly" omnipotent beings. God is supposed to be omnipresent...yet there is a limit if the DC God shows up in a crossover comic. The DC God, or the Presence, can not be omnipresent in the Marvel Universe because He is not representative of Marvel Comics.

The same with TOAA.

So, how could two omnipresent beings exist in the same place at the same time? I don't think it is possible, IMO. So, it would only be CIS to even have Supreme Beings in a crossover....because Omnipresence would have to be eliminated in a battle scenario.

so basically it would be a four way tie between TOAA, Presence, and Brothers since they are all unkillable omnipotents. I go with TOAA and Presence cuz they were there first (as in written first), but if TOAA/Presence crossover I wouldn't choose because they are essentially the same and its just stupid to have two omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient GODS at the same time.

I only got on this thing to find out what people would say about what's the most powerful thing in marvel and DC and pretty much got the answer I expected except with the addition of the pre-retcon brothers (i assume now they are below God status because the LT was holding one in each hand...that was the retcon right?)

Yeah the Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer made me want to find out what was the most powerful thing in the comics because that Surfer dude is pretty cool (i dont care if it was like the comic book one, i like comics but I'm nowhere near obsessed with them. All I really care about is that the movie was good to watch with friends)

Originally posted by tooa/presence
so basically it would be a four way tie between TOAA, Presence, and Brothers since they are all unkillable omnipotents. I go with TOAA and Presence cuz they were there first (as in written first), but if TOAA/Presence crossover I wouldn't choose because they are essentially the same and its just stupid to have two omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient GODS at the same time.
Actually they decided to make TOAA and Presence appear as brothers, but since the Amalgam series got bad critics they decided to retcon them.
But before the retcon they were not equal to them, they were them.


Same with me but I started off as a Dragonball fan, and I wanted to find out who was the most powerful being through fiction, it led me to comics.
- And the Brothers, them fused would probably take down Presence and TOAA considering they also got control over the place inbetween.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yes... Very impressive especially the part were Lucifer moves his chair out of the Spectre's shadow ...
And why would Spectre want to be him up vice versa, it wasent like he teared up creation.
I remember that Michael though took on the Spectre and actually fought him, as the Brothers' didn't notice them.

And even in the Face of God, Spectre charged and attacked the Presence. - Touché?

You asked why Spectre would fight Lucifer?? You know what Luci did right?? The Brothers was used as a way to bring together Marvel and DC, thats it.. And in the Face of God, the Spectre charged at Yhwh/the Presence and God took him out easily

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Actually they decided to make TOAA and Presence appear as brothers, but since the Amalgam series got bad critics they decided to retcon them.
But before the retcon they were not equal to them, they were them.


Same with me but I started off as a Dragonball fan, and I wanted to find out who was the most powerful being through fiction, it led me to comics.
- And the Brothers, them fused would probably take down Presence and TOAA considering they also got control over the place inbetween.

so the blue was going to = presence and the red was going to = TOAA

and there is no doubt it got bad critics as it opened up many flaws. they should have never made the brothers, besides they look like gay colored robots with humanlike legs.

I like Dragonball Z and some of GT (when they actually fight that is)
I think they are the most powerful fighters (out of non-God league of course). They are just simply cooler than marvel and dc's characters. I know that's an opinion I'm just saying.

Originally posted by kevdude
You asked why Spectre would fight Lucifer?? You know what Luci did right?? The Brothers was used as a way to bring together Marvel and DC, thats it.. And in the Face of God, the Spectre charged at Yhwh/the Presence and God took him out easily
Yes, God noticed his attack Refering to the "Hm?" -- And took him out.
Spectre and LT flied around the Brothers but they didn't even got noticed, they held onto their sword trying to stop them, but they "Didn't even affect the battle that was going on"

You said that he didn't attack Lucifer because he knew he was going to be pwned, that may be true, but he didn't have any reason to fight him, he charged against the Presence when he ate his creation, the Spectre attacked the Brothers when they teared upp all creation and was going to once again destroy and recreate it.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
so the blue was going to = presence and the red was going to = TOAA

and there is no doubt it got bad critics as it opened up many flaws. they should have never made the brothers, besides they look like gay colored robots with humanlike legs.
Whether appearance or writing, when the four issues of the miniseries was given out they were TOAA/Presence.

So when we refere to the Pre-retcon Brothers we mean what they were before the retcon (TOAA/Presence) if we just say the Brothers we mean the post retcon versions which are merly high abstracts in the Amalgam verse.

It's like with the Pre-retcon Beyonder, he doesnt exist anymore, now Beyonder is a inhuman mutant, but when he was created he was the most powerful being in the Multiverse, toying with Owen Rence and LT.


Sentry, Silver Surfer, Superman etc. have feats surpassing those of the DBZ/GT verse.

"Yes, God noticed his attack Refering to the "Hm?" -- And took him out.
Spectre and LT flied around the Brothers but they didn't even got noticed, they held onto their sword trying to stop them, but they "Didn't even affect the battle that was going on""

Proving that God is smarter- at least he notices when something is going to pester him. Also the Brothers had to look down at Captain America and Batman to realize what they were doing was stupid and wrong. People look up to God to realize what they are doing is stupid and wrong.

"It's like with the Pre-retcon Beyonder, he doesnt exist anymore, now Beyonder is a inhuman mutant, but when he was created he was the most powerful being in the Multiverse, toying with Owen Rence and LT.

Still not more powerful than God. Nothing is.

"Sentry, Silver Surfer, Superman etc. have feats surpassing those of the DBZ/GT verse."

Um no...but I'm not ging to get in a long argument with you, especially since you put Superman there. Silver Surfer is cool, but not as cool as the top DBZ/GT characters (Goku, Vegeta, Vegetto, etc.).

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Proving that God is smarter- at least he notices when something is going to pester him. Also the Brothers had to look down at Captain America and Batman to realize what they were doing was stupid and wrong. People look up to God to realize what they are doing is stupid and wrong.
Noticed was the wrong term, gave unnecessary attention would be a better one.

And The Brothers were omnipresent, that's why they say what Batman and Cap saw, because they were in their mind as well.
They might have been aware of it, but didn't actually gave it so much care, personaly I think it was symbolic in this way.
Marvel and DC argue which has the best heroes they place their betting and so forth, they start fighting ruining the story, and finaly when looking back at the events that actually meant something in comicdome realizing that it was it and not the overall power that mattered.

But the Brothers were smarter they even learned of eachothers existance when they existed in two different creations.

"It's like with the Pre-retcon Beyonder, he doesnt exist anymore, now Beyonder is a inhuman mutant, but when he was created he was the most powerful being in the Multiverse, toying with Owen Rence and LT.


Beyonder was GOD before retconned.

As was the Brothers, even stated to be supreme, which literally means that nothing is above them.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Noticed was the wrong term, gave unnecessary attention would be a better one.

"And The Brothers were omnipresent, that's why they say what Batman and Cap saw, because they were in their mind as well.

"They might have been aware of it, but didn't actually gave it so much care, personaly I think it was symbolic in this way."
Marvel and DC argue which has the best heroes they place their betting and so forth, they start fighting ruining the story, and finaly when looking back at the events that actually meant something in comicdome realizing that it was it and not the overall power that mattered."

But the Brothers were smarter they even learned of eachothers existance when they existed in two different creations.

"It's like with the Pre-retcon Beyonder, he doesnt exist anymore, now Beyonder is a inhuman mutant, but when he was created he was the most powerful being in the Multiverse, toying with Owen Rence and LT.


Beyonder was GOD before retconned.

As was the Brothers, even stated to be supreme, which literally means that nothing is above them.

Quit saying stupid stuff. Noticed was the right term. They didn't even notice when the LT and Spectre were going to merge them and a god should know when something is going to pose a threat and be able to stop it before it happens. You said yourself they didn't want the fusion to happen.

We already went over omnipresent and they aren't. Even you admitted they aren't in the Amalgam world.

"They might have been aware of it, but didn't actually gave it so much care, personaly I think it was symbolic in this way."
Marvel and DC argue which has the best heroes they place their betting and so forth, they start fighting ruining the story, and finaly when looking back at the events that actually meant something in comicdome realizing that it was it and not the overall power that mattered."

Nice way of side stepping your wrongness like you seem to do too often.

They learned of each other that makes them SO smart.

Was he there from the beggining? Did he create EVERYTHING that exists? NO

Since you like to go by what is stated so much, I'm going to use your own logic against you.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3580/bro1uh2la8.th.jpghttp://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8316/bro2xa7ct4.th.jpg

Um ya. LT knew of TOAA and knew that TOAA was capable of thwarting his will, but he still says it anyway. Just because it states it in a comic doesn't mean it's going to logically make sense. That's just one reason why the critics didn't like your beloved brothers bullshit and that's just one reason why your adorned brothers bullshit was retconned.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Quit saying stupid stuff. Noticed was the right term. They didn't even notice when the LT and Spectre were going to merge them and a god should know when something is going to pose a threat and be able to stop it before it happens. You said yourself they didn't want the fusion to happen.


No but that is why it pretty much defy normal marvel cosmology

And I don't think anyone know they are being warped until it has actually happend. When 238 Jasper toke control of his universe I bet Eternity didn't know what was going on until it was to late.

And that is why the relative easy broke free from the merging LT and Spectre knew they couldn't hold them for long and knew if the brothers broke free violently one of the universes (Marvel ore DC) would be flushed.

Originally posted by Utrigita
No but that is why it pretty much defy normal marvel cosmology

And I don't think anyone know they are being warped until it has actually happend. When 238 Jasper toke control of his universe I bet Eternity didn't know what was going on until it was to late.

And that is why the relative easy broke free from the merging LT and Spectre knew they couldn't hold them for long and knew if the brothers broke free violently one of the universes (Marvel ore DC) would be flushed.


I think the point is...that if a being is Supreme...then it should be Omniscient. The Supreme KNOWS all things. If the Brothers were Supreme...they would know well before hand what the LT and Spectre were going to do.

Eternity is not Supreme, so he would be caught off guard. The Brothers, if they were meant to be Supreme, would never be caught off guard like that. The Supreme would know a billion years in advance that the day would come when LT and Spectre would try such a feat...and the Brothers would deal with it at the appropriate time. Since the Brothers never knew LT's or Spectre's plan...they were caught off-guard....hence, they could not be Supreme(God)

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
I think the point is...that if a being is Supreme...then it should be Omniscient. The Supreme KNOWS all things. If the Brothers were Supreme...they would know well before hand what the LT and Spectre were going to do.

Eternity is not Supreme, so he would be caught off guard. The Brothers, if they were meant to be Supreme, would never be caught off guard like that. The Supreme would know a billion years in advance that the day would come when LT and Spectre would try such a feat...and the Brothers would deal with it at the appropriate time. Since the Brothers never knew LT's or Spectre's plan...they were caught off-guard....hence, they could not be Supreme(God)

If I knew how to put that thumbs up sign, I would.

it is : up : as in

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
I think the point is...that if a being is Supreme...then it should be Omniscient. The Supreme KNOWS all things. If the Brothers were Supreme...they would know well before hand what the LT and Spectre were going to do.

Eternity is not Supreme, so he would be caught off guard. The Brothers, if they were meant to be Supreme, would never be caught off guard like that. The Supreme would know a billion years in advance that the day would come when LT and Spectre would try such a feat...and the Brothers would deal with it at the appropriate time. Since the Brothers never knew LT's or Spectre's plan...they were caught off-guard....hence, they could not be Supreme(God)

I think the point is it is a comic..made by Marvel and DC,anybody who took the time to read the whole arch knows that they were supreme.
I think they have been doing this comic thing for a long time..it might have been bad..lame..uninteresting...whatever..but it is their comic and the premise is easy to understand(to me at least) if people want to reference pre-retcon brother(s) like everyone else does with other retcon characters big deal..to me they were above TOAA and the presence.... i did not like the amalgam story much..but i have enough comon sense to see what they ment when they said SURPREME...all the arguing over somthing noone knows about Omi- this Omni- that, we are human creatures of flesh and any rationalizing god or surpreme in a comic is pointless if the words are their and the premise is apparently simple..this is not thanos getting his hands on an item of power..this is two of the biggest comic companies telling a story about two supreme beings period

Originally posted by starlock
I think the point is it is a comic..made by Marvel and DC,anybody who took the time to read the whole arch knows that they were supreme.
I think they have been doing this comic thing for a long time..it might have been bad..lame..uninteresting...whatever..but it is their comic and the premise is easy to understand(to me at least) if people want to reference pre-retcon brother(s) like everyone else does with other retcon characters big deal..to me they were above TOAA and the presence.... i did not like the amalgam story much..but i have enough comon sense to see what they ment when they said SURPREME...all the arguing over somthing noone knows about Omi- this Omni- that, we are human creatures of flesh and any rationalizing god or surpreme in a comic is pointless if the words are their and the premise is apparently simple..this is not thanos getting his hands on an item of power..this is two of the biggest comic companies telling a story about two supreme beings period

they weren't supreme and besides that website that people are getting information from saying they are supreme is not even part of marvel. It was created by dudes who openly admit they have information on only 95% of the characters.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
Quit saying stupid stuff. Noticed was the right term. They didn't even notice when the LT and Spectre were going to merge them and a god should know when something is going to pose a threat and be able to stop it before it happens. You said yourself they didn't want the fusion to happen.
No I never said that they didn't want to fuse, but I seriously doubt that it was because of the power of the Living Tribunal and Spectre's own power, considering that they couldent affect the Brothers in their battle later on.
They didn't give Spectre and the Living Tribunal attention because they couldent do anything to them.


Your point being? - Neither Presence and TOAA are omnipresent in that world as well.
But the Brothers would be if they accepted to co-exist.


Actually read their Bio, it says that they were the ones that nade all creation and destroyed and recreated it over and over again each time their power extended so far that they encounter eachother.


But it's also a fact that LT is second only to TOAA, which also proves that the Brother must be him.
Also the fact that they were stated to be supreme in ALL of Marvel and DC, they were supreme nothing were above them.
It's pretty clear that they were TOAA/Presence also the fact that they represented the entire company.

Your effort proves nothing.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
I think the point is...that if a being is Supreme...then it should be Omniscient. The Supreme KNOWS all things. If the Brothers were Supreme...they would know well before hand what the LT and Spectre were going to do.

Eternity is not Supreme, so he would be caught off guard. The Brothers, if they were meant to be Supreme, would never be caught off guard like that. The Supreme would know a billion years in advance that the day would come when LT and Spectre would try such a feat...and the Brothers would deal with it at the appropriate time. Since the Brothers never knew LT's or Spectre's plan...they were caught off-guard....hence, they could not be Supreme(God)
They were caught off guard because they were two, and they both used omnipower and omniscience to battle eachother, normally a omniscient and omnipotent being wouldent be caught up in a battle, but there were two of them and they couldent co-exist.
They wouldent stop the battle to stop two to them insects.

Their power cancelled out eachother their planing cancelled out eachother, maybe they knew what happen just didn't bother to do anything about it, because that could make the other brother smite the other one.

The merging wouldent cause them any harm anyways, ALL creation was nearly destroyed because of that.
It was manipulation of the Brothers own power that caused it all.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
they weren't supreme and besides that website that people are getting information from saying they are supreme is not even part of marvel. It was created by dudes who openly admit they have information on only 95% of the characters.
Ok, it is clear either you haven't read the miniseries and the Marvel vs DC preview which are both comics, or your simply ignoring panel evidence and statements like a biased fanboi.
The preview stated that they were to introduce the supreme beings of each company, both representing the companies.
- But hey if you want to ignore that for whatever reason then fine, just don't say you're basing anything on fact statements and panel evidence.

And the website is only a imperfect bio, the real bio is in the comics, whether you accept it or not the Brothers were confirmed to be supreme and supose to represent the entire staff of Marvel and DC. - These are facts which you're not allowed to overlook.
- The Marvel vs DC preview says it all, it have a complete bio of every one that appears in the Marvel vs DC miniseries, including the Brothers (though there is no picture of them there, but as the title says, "The Brothers"

I'm not at home currently and are not able to either scan or link the page.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Ok, it is clear either you haven't read the miniseries and the Marvel vs DC preview which are both comics, or your simply ignoring panel evidence and statements like a biased fanboi.
The preview stated that they were to introduce the supreme beings of each company, both representing the companies.
- But hey if you want to ignore that for whatever reason then fine, just don't say you're basing anything on fact statements and panel evidence.

And the website is only a imperfect bio, the real bio is in the comics, whether you accept it or not the Brothers were confirmed to be supreme and supose to represent the entire staff of Marvel and DC. - These are facts which you're not allowed to overlook.
- The Marvel vs DC preview says it all, it have a complete bio of every one that appears in the Marvel vs DC miniseries, including the Brothers (though there is no picture of them there, but as the title says, "The Brothers"

I'm not at home currently and are not able to either scan or link the page.

SO WHAT. Cosmic Spiderman was stated as "now the strongest hero in the Marvel Universe", yet he clearly wasn't when you actually read the comic. When you actually read the Brothers comic series, you know that the Brothers aren't supreme.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
They were caught off guard because they were two, and they both used omnipower and omniscience to battle eachother, normally a omniscient and omnipotent being wouldent be caught up in a battle, but there were two of them and they couldent co-exist.
They wouldent stop the battle to stop two to them insects.

Their power cancelled out eachother their planing cancelled out eachother, maybe they knew what happen just didn't bother to do anything about it, because that could make the other brother smite the other one.

The merging wouldent cause them any harm anyways, ALL creation was nearly destroyed because of that.
It was manipulation of the Brothers own power that caused it all.

I have officially convinced myself that I am arguing with a 13 year old. I will no longer respond to your ignorant speculations.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
SO WHAT. Cosmic Spiderman was stated as "now the strongest hero in the Marvel Universe", yet he clearly wasn't when you actually read the comic. When you actually read the Brothers comic series, you know that the Brothers aren't supreme.
The Captain universe suit is actually around 50 times as powerful as Silver Surfer, he might well have been the most powerful hero considering that the higher cosmics, Galactus, Cube Beings, Celestial's and so forth are neautral neither hero or villain.

The Brothers were supreme whether you like it or not, it was stated, confirmed, approved and illustrated.

And there is adifferance if it's the writer telling (usually in square) or if it is a comic book character speaking.
What's in those squares are plain fact's, what's in thought and speech bubbles might be lies or boost.

The Brothers were stated to be supreme, to be all that is in Marvel and DC and also to represent the companies in the Preview (just correct bios and some spoilers/teasers)
The writers typing facts directly.

If you ask me, and some else they will confirm that Marvel vs DC miniseries featured the most powerful beings throughout fiction.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
I have officially convinced myself that I am arguing with a 13 year old. I will no longer respond to your ignorant speculations.
Do as you will, but even if I were 13 year old would you ignore my statements even if they were correct, I'm arguing with someone who's pride makes him think that he is suprior to others.

Age has nothing to do with intelligence, I am certain that there are 13 years old who knows more about comics than you do, and you're the one acting childish here.

Just because you don't like these comic's you ignore the actuall panel feats and so forth.
And none of my statements are based on speculation in any form, yours however, all of them, are speculations and not only that but also bad speculation.